The Daily Signal - 2 Conservatives Who Led Opposition to Impeachment Look Back on the Fight

Episode Date: March 4, 2020

Reps. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., and Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, led the opposition in the House to Democrats’ impeachment push. They join today’s Daily Signal Podcast to reflect on what it was like to be in the middle of that fight, and what they've learned about their constituents' perspectives on it.  We also cover these stories: A tornado touches down in Tennessee, killing at least 22.  Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defeats his chief opponent, Benny Gantz of the Blue and White Party, in a parliamentary election but doesn't secure enough votes to form a governing coalition. Chris Matthews, longtime host of MSNBC’s "Hardball," announces his retirement from the show over allegations of sexual harassment.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, March 4th. I'm Jared Stetman. And I'm Rachel Del Judas. North Carolina Representative Mark Meadows and Ohio Representative Jim Jordan led the opposition in the House to Democrats' impeachment push. They joined me on today's podcast to look back on what it was like to be in the middle of that fight and what they learned about their constituents' perspective of it. If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to leave a review or five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now on to our top news. A tornado that touched down in Tennessee on Monday night and into Tuesday morning has killed at least 22 people.

Tennessee Governor Bill Lee called the tornado heartbreaking at a press conference Tuesday morning saying, We have had loss of life all across the state. Four different counties as of this morning had confirmed fatalities. President Trump announced also on Tuesday that he will visit the devastated area on Friday. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defeated his chief opponent, Benny Gantz, of the Blue and White Party, in his country's parliamentary election, but did not secure enough votes to form a ruling coalition. Netanyahu celebrated his close victory, which he said took place against all odds.

Our rival said the Netanyahu era is over, Netanyahu said, but with joined forces, we turn the situation around. We turned lemons into lemonade. According to the Wall Street Journal, Netanyahu's Lakou Party and other coalition members secured 59 seats as of counting on Tuesday, too short of the 61-seat majority in the Knesset needed a former government. Chris Matthews, host of MSNBC's show on primetime called Hardball, announced Monday night on his show that he is resigning due to allegations of sexual harassment. Here's what he had to say. Let me start with my headline tonight. I'm retiring.

This is the last hardball on MSNBC, and obviously this isn't for lack of interest in politics. As you can tell, I've loved every minute of my 20 years as host of Hardball. Every morning I read the papers, and I'm gung-ho to get to work. Not many people have had this privilege. I love working with my producers and the discussions we have over how to report the news. And I love having this connection with you, the good people who watch. I've learned who you are, bumping into you on the sidewalk or waiting in an airport and saying, hello. You're like me.

I hear from your kids and grandchildren who say, my dad loves you or my grandmother loves you My husband watched it till the end. After a conversation with MSNBC, I decided tonight will be my last hardball. So let me tell you why. The younger generations out there are ready to take the reins. We see them in politics, in the media, in fighting for their causes. They are improving the workplace. We're talking here about better standards than we grew up with fair standards.

A lot of it has to do with how we talk to each other. Compliments on a woman's appearance that some men, including me, might have once incorrectly thought we're okay. We're never okay. Not then and certainly not today. And for making such comments in the past, I'm sorry. I'm very proud of the work I've done here. Long before I went on television, I worked for years in politics, was a newspaper columnist and author.

I'm working in another book. I'll continue to write and talk about politics and cheer on my producers and crew here in Washington and New York and my MSNBC colleagues. They will continue to produce great journalism in the years ahead. And for those of you have gotten into the habit of watching hardball every night, I hope you're going to miss because I'm going to miss you. But remembering Humphrey Bogart and Casablanca will always have hardball.

So let's not say goodbye, but till we meet again. The city of Charlottesville, Virginia, the hometown of founding father Thomas Jefferson, stopped celebrating his birthday, which takes place on March 3rd. Charlottesville instead celebrated Liberation and Freedom Day, which is dedicated to those who have been enslaved and emancipated in Virginia. Former city councilor West Bellamy said that there were many opposed to the chain. Belamy said of the author of the Declaration of Independence to CNN, I'm sorry they feel offended and think this is disgraceful,

but as a community, we are not going to celebrate a white supremacist. You can see a person's best qualities when you have the privilege to take advantage of the things they put in place. But for those of us who have been on the shorter end of the stick, there's nothing about him worth being celebrated. Abraham Lincoln wrote of the Virginia founder's contribution to American emancipation, all honored to Jefferson, to the man who, in the concrete pressure of a struggle, for national independence by a single people had the coolness forecast and capacity to introduce into a merely revolutionary document, an abstract truth applicable to all men at all times.

And so to embalm it there that today, in all coming days, it shall be a rebuke and stumbling block to the very harbingers of reappearing tyranny and oppression. Next up, we'll have my interviews with Representative Mark Meadows and Representative Jim Jordan about impeachment. Do conversations about the Supreme Court leave you scratching your head? If you want to understand what's happening at the court, subscribe to SCOTUS 101, a Heritage Foundation podcast, breaking down the cases, personalities, and gossip at the Supreme Court. We are joined today on the Dealey Signal podcast by Congressman Mark Meadows of North Carolina. Congressman Meadows, thank you so much for being with us today.

It's great to be with you here at CPAC, so a lot of energy here in the auditorium, and certainly great to be with the listeners here on your podcast. Well, thanks for being with us. To start off, you led a lot with the whole impeachment push in the House. What was that like? Yeah, so I want to be clear, I led against the impeachment push. But yes, you know, I think the listeners would know exactly where we are on that. Adam Schiff pushing impeachment. Jim Jordan and I pushed back.

We actually, from start to finish, were part of the depositions where we were down in the basement where they were leaking out particular selected quotes to spend a narrative against the president. And yet we found that the truth was on our side. And so what we could do is continue to get that out. And so we had to take unconventional ways through podcasts, through Twitter, through Facebook, to make sure that the truth was getting there because Adam Schiff and his team had the mainstream media covering it each and every day. And, I mean, he could burp. and they would say it was newsworthy.

And yet we found that the American people were hungry for what the real side of the story was. And that is that there's a concerted effort here in Washington, D.C. to undermine the legitimacy of this president and try to make sure that he is not effective. And in spite of that, he's accomplishing unbelievable things. You mentioned Adam Schiff in his agenda to impeach the president how the media was very, just wanted to hear everything he had to say and would give him a megaphone a lot of times. What was your perspective on the procedure of everything? A lot of times, at least in the very beginning, they were departing from procedure when it came to impeachment. Can you talk about that?

Yeah, they departed from procedures early on, but they continue to depart from procedures each and every time that we got into something new. So at first, they were trying to make sure that it was in a classified setting, even though nothing we talked about was classified. Then they would selectively leak it out, and they would leak out their scenarios and their narrative. Then from there, we would even have procedures which would allow the minority to call witnesses. They wouldn't let us call witnesses. And for the vast majority, all but about seven days, they said that the White House could not have counsel, they could not call witnesses, and ultimately, at the very end, they said, yes, you can have your

attorneys, but then they impeached him the very next day. So, I mean, this whole idea that it was a fair process was not only inaccurate, but they know it was false and inaccurate. Well, you were working nonstop to represent the president, to speak on his behalf, to speak on what you knew to be true. What was, there's a lot going on during that time, but what was, if you could pick one thing that was most frustrating about what happened, what would that have been? I think the thing that was most frustrating is, is that we knew what was being shared. in the private settings, we knew exactly what other witnesses had said, and yet the Democrats intentionally didn't share that. And the media, when we would try to share the other side of it,

largely ignored it. And so that was a real frustrating aspect of trying to form the debate on what was truth and what wasn't. For a lot of people, they thought that Adam Schiff's parody was actually the way that the phone call went. And yet the mainstream media did call him out on that. I think you got four Pinocchio's for his rendition of the Ukrainian call. But they seemed to forget that over and over again. And they would quote a phone call in different contexts without the actual words. In fact, they would say you probably, your listeners heard that they were all about digging up dirt.

Well, that never appeared in any transcript. That was actually came, I think, originally from a CNN commentator, and yet it became what everybody talked about. So I think the frustrating thing is that a lie gets repeated so many times before it actually comes head to head with the truth. And when it does, it doesn't necessarily undermine all the lies that were told previously. So did people read the transcripts? I know President Trump would ask repeatedly for people to read the transcripts. You know, only the most intentional of people read the transcripts. I think there were some of our members of Congress that didn't even read them.

But some, if you read the transcripts and put yourself in that situation, you could see that not only was there nothing wrong in it, but there certainly wasn't anything that even came close to an impeachable offense. And that was on the backside of Mueller's investigation imploding. And so they had to find something. They'll find something when he gets reelected. in November of 2020, they will try to impeach him again. It's our critical responsibility to make sure that Nancy Pelosi doesn't have a gavel,

so that doesn't happen. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Senator Cruz has mentioned this in a couple different ways when you spoke at Heritage and even on different podcasts, how impeachment is being used now as political weaponization of the presidency. Well, it has been weaponized. I think they've gotten to the point where impeachment now becomes the tool to, to get people to pay attention to one issue, but it's also to gen up a certain political class. And so I think we ought to change the rules where it has to be bipartisan and at least have a small threshold for those of the party of the president to actually join in in this case.

It could be reversed if we had a Democrat in the White House. But where you actually have bipartisan support for impeachment, this is what our founding fathers didn't want to happen. happen, and because they knew that ultimately, given the desires of men and women to get a political advantage, they will use every legislative tool that they have in their toolbox to do that. And sadly, impeachment really takes away the vote from millions of Americans, and it should only be as a very last resort measure. So during the impeachment push, what were you hearing from constituents back in North Carolina?

Well, most of the constituents back in North Carolina either supported defending the president. I come from a conservative district. Or it didn't even register on their top ten list. You know, they're more, you know, they wanted to make sure we're about roads and bridges and lowering prescription drug prices and taking care of making sure that the economy continues to grow. And so it was not even on their top ten list. But, you know, certainly it was not all unified. I did get a few people that would call my office.

Actually, I got a lot of people from all over the country calling my office to express their opinion. But when you found the people that were definitely hated the president, didn't vote for the president, wanted him gone, and you found those who definitely supported the president and wanted him to stay. There was a small group in the middle. Most of those didn't see impeachment as the appropriate tool or even justify. Well, despite the whole impeachment push, President Trump has been very busy. There's been a lot that's happened in the past four years. What would you say are some of the biggest accomplishments despite that?

You know, doing away with regulations, reducing taxes, moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, when you look at what he's done, actually even on prescription drug prices, starting to lower prescription drug prices, getting rid of the individual mandate, unemployment at historic lows, the economy growing at a rate that has pushed wages up. Everything that he campaigned on, he's in the process of building the wall. We're going to have several hundred miles of wall that will be built by the time he's actually voted in again. And so, you know, if there's a to-do list left, I think that to-do list is still. work on roads and bridges. We still don't have a bill from our Democrat colleagues and continue to

work on prescription drug prices and health care costs to get those down. But he's had amazing accomplishments. You mentioned the economy, and there was a poll that recently came out where at some Americans are historically optimistic about their economic futures. Can you talk a little bit about how? Well, I mean, we're living it. I mean, we got all these people here watching. Is the economy doing well? Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know if you can hear that on the podcast. But, you know, the economy is doing well. And so as we look at that, one of the big things is we're experiencing it. And once you start to experience something and you realize that the government is not standing in the way of a good economy, it's actually encouraging it.

And you know what? Give the American people their ability to create wealth. If the government gets out of the way, they can create it much faster than the government ever thought about creating it. And so that's why there's an optimism really for the first time. in the last decade where you think that your kids and grandkids will be better off than you were. So final question. Yeah. Congress is finally not tied up with impeachment anymore.

Yeah. What should y'all be working on? Well, I'm working on a couple of things, working on a couple of measures to lower prescription drug prices. Primarily, one thing that I think that we'll be able to announce pretty soon is some real initiatives on insulin to make sure that insulin is very affordable. But also in those drugs that have got. gotten the out-of-pocket expense has gotten so great. We've got great innovation, great research and development. How do we make sure that that continues and yet make sure that it's affordable? So we're working on that very closely. And then the last thing is continue the deregulation.

When the president came in, we gave him 312 regulations that we wanted to see him do away with. A lot of the work from Heritage and other places actually helped go into that document. They're 70% of the way along on ripping that. They've actually gone way beyond 312 with thousands of regulations that have been rolled back. The economy picks up the minute you do that. You take the burden off of the American worker and they always prosper. Congressman Meadows, thank you so much for joining us. No, thank you.

It's great to be with you. Thanks for being here. All right. Are you looking for quick conservative policy solutions to current issues? Sign up for Heritage's weekly newsletter, The Agenda. In the agenda, you will learn what issues Heritage Scholars on Capitol Hill are working on, what position conservatives are taking, and links to our in-depth research. The agenda also provides information on important events happening here at Heritage that you can watch online, as well as media interviews from our experts.

Sign up for the agenda on heritage.org today. We are joined today on the Daily Signal podcast by Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio. Congressman Jordan, thank you so much for stopping by. You're bad. Good to be with you. Thanks for being here. Well, impeachment's over, but you were one of the... Thank you. Good Lord for that, huh? It is finally over. It was quite the couple months that you had.

You were one of the leading voices of opposition in the impeachment push, and I want to just talk to you a little bit about what that was like, now that you can kind of do a look back from the time to when the articles were introduced to when the Senate acquitted President Trump. You were in the midst of it that whole time. What was that like? It was intense. I mean, maybe my time in public office, most intense, probably four and a half months.

once ever. But it was also, we felt good. We felt confident throughout it because the facts were on our side. We knew what the Democrats were doing was wrong. We knew that, you know, we said this. We said it so many times we got tired of saying it. There are four facts. We'll never change, have never, ever change, four fundamental facts. We had the call transcript, which by the way, the Democrats never thought the president would release the transcript. When he did, and it showed fine call. Nothing wrong with that call. So we had the transcript which showed no quid pro quo. We had the two guys on the call, President Trump, President Zelensky, who repeatedly said it was fine. It was a good call.

I mean, Zelensky talks it out, we're going to drain the swamp in our country like you're doing here. It was a call where both guys said there was no linkage, no, to dollars and release of the, or excuse me, an investigation and release of the dollars. There was no pressure, no pushing. We know third fact that the Ukrainians didn't even know the aid was held at the time of the call. And the fourth and most important fact, the Ukrainians never did an investigation, never promised to do an investigation. never promised to do an investigation, never announced they were going to do an investigation in order to get the aid release. So Adam Schiff could have all the presumptions, assumptions, and hearsay he wanted,

but he can never change the fundamental facts, which showed that the president did nothing wrong. And so we felt confident. We just kept pressing that throughout the entire four-and-a-half-month process, and it turned out pretty good. You mentioned how the Democrats never thought President Trump would release the transcript. Why was that? Why were they so confident? I don't know, because you normally don't do that. because it's not a good practice to get into to releasing transcripts when you're having private conversations with foreign heads of state.

But he did, and he had to because what they were trying to do to him. It just shows this is the other important thing. We need to understand that Democrats are never going to stop. We know they're never going to stop because they started trying to impeach this president before he was ever elected. Impeachment didn't start in July of 2019. It started in July 2016 when they opened the Trump-Russian investigation, spite on four American citizens associated with the president.

campaign, went to a secret court to further spy on the Trump campaign. When they went to the secret court and used the dossier to get the warrant on Carter Page and spy on the Trump campaign, they didn't tell the court that the guy who wrote that document, the dossier was desperate to stop Trump. They didn't tell the court that the guy who wrote the document Christopher Steele was getting paid by the Clinton campaign. Those are pretty important facts. They lied to that FISA court 17 times.

So they're never going to stop attacking this president. We just need to understand that. We understood it throughout this impeachment process. We talked about the facts, and it was a great result. is going to, I think, win big this November just to show them. Talking about procedure for a second, did Democrats follow proper procedure? No, the process, I remember given this speech in one of the hearings, when you don't have the facts, you have to have a rigged procedure.

You can't give a fair process to the president. So we had Adam Schiff, who controlled everything, did all the depositions in the bunker of the basement of the Capitol. We weren't allowed to call any witnesses. The president or his attorneys weren't allowed to be there. The president's attorneys weren't allowed to be there to cross-examining the witnesses. It was a rigged process from the start.

They set the rules, then changed the rules, then didn't follow the rules they changed. But they had to try to do all that because they didn't have any facts on their side. So it was a totally unfair process. And again, the American people saw through it. And what I think is interesting, September 24th, when Nancy Pelosi

announces that she's going to start this impeachment investigation. She never thought on that day that first the president would release the transcript the next day. She never thought that every single Republican in the House would vote for, not, would not vote for the articles, and that we'd get one Democrat to vote with us on both articles, a second Democrat to vote with us on one article, a third Democrat to not vote at all, and a fourth Democrat to vote with us and switch parties. She never thought, the conventional wisdom was, oh, some Republicans are going to vote for articles impeachment. It didn't happen because again, I think we were able to show the facts were all on the president's side. And she wasn't expecting that because she was just going off of, oh, this is what

I'm going to do for my party. And it was more about politics than actual policy. Totally about that. She thought the mainstream press, who was always willing to help the Democrats, she thought the momentum would come their direction. They would pick up some Republican votes when, in fact, it went just the opposite. Well, looking at everything that happened, what a crazy couple months it was for you. If you were to look back, what was the most frustrating thing about the process, about the whole impeachment procedure for you in person when you look back. What was most frustrating about all that? What I find just astonishing is the individual who started at all never had to testify,

the whistleblower. What I find astonishing is Adam Schiff said in an open hearing, I don't know who the whistleblower is. And I remember in that hearing, I said, there's not a person on the planet who believes that. Of course, you know, Adam Schiff, 435 members of the House, 100 members of the Senate, and 535, Adam Schiff is the only one who knows for sure who the whistleblower is. And for him to say in a public hearing, he doesn't know, Adam Schiff staff met with the whistleblower. That's what happened.

They came to his office. If I remember reading multiple reports, he comes in, there were reports that said before, oh, we met with him, this is the situation. And then a couple days later, he's like, oh, wait, we don't know who that is. Yeah. So I find that just unbelievable. I think most Americans who follow this find it, you know, ridiculous that Adam Schiff then asserts that he doesn't know who the whistleblower is.

The other thing I've found interesting is when Adam Schiff's, if prevented one of the witnesses, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, from telling us the names or describing the people. He wasn't even allowed to do that in the deposition. The people he talked to about the phone call. The lieutenant colonel Vindman heard the phone call, and he spoke with five people. He spoke with the two lawyers at the NSC, Mr. Ellis and Mr. Eisenberg. He spoke to his brother at the NSC, and he also spoke to Secretary Ken.

But there was a fifth person he spoke to. But, oh, we can't tell you who that is. Because that was a whistleblower. It's like a genius to figure this stuff out. But Adam Schiff wouldn't even let us describe where that person works or anything like that. No, no, no, you're trying to uncover the worst. No, we're not. We're trying to figure out the case and what Mr. Vindman did and who he spoke to.

So that was the frustrating part, but it just showed the lengths that they will go to get at this president, which is just so sad and so frustrating. But that's who they are, and it's what they're going to continue to do. During impeachment, something that Senator Ted Cruz has talked a lot about was how Democrats are using impeachment to weapon. the presidency, do you think that's the case and will this become more of a common occurrence? I hope not, but it was the case. I mean, think about it. You talk about weaponizing government. Ten years ago was the IRS targeting conservatives. More recently is what the FBI did when they launched the Trump-Russia investigation in 2016. And most recently, it's the weaponizing of the

impeachment power of Congress. Understand what Adam Schiff did at the end of that investigation. He released the private phone records of the president's personal attorney. He released the private phone records of a member of the press, and he released the private phone records of a Republican member of Congress. That is scary, but that is what Adam Schiff did, the person that Nancy Pelosi put in charge of this entire investigation. So it is dangerous where they want to take the country. It's dangerous to what we've seen federal agencies do

and members of Congress do in their quest to go after conservatives and their quest to go after President Trump. I hope it stops. The best way to stop it is for Republicans to win on election day this November. I think President Trump's going to win. I think he's going to win. If he wins big, which I think he's going to, we have a good chance to take him back the House. Well, as recently, I think it's about about it, House Democrats have talked about that they said they were pondering the idea of impeaching Trump again. How would this go if this were to actually happen? I don't think it happens this year. I mean, that would just be, well, I mean, look, I wouldn't put anything past these Democrats, but I don't think they're going to do it this year. We've got an election coming up for goodness sake.

But I do assume that they'll try it in President Trump's second term. You know, they've tried just who they are. They're going to go to whatever length it takes to try to get this president. And the amazing thing is, in spite of all the opposition that he's gotten from every single Democrat in this town, from all the mainstream press, this president has done what he said he was going to do and delivered for the country and is truly focused on making America great again and getting. that done. And I think that's again why he's going to win so big in November. So they're not going to impeach this year, but they'll do it in 2021, 22 again when it's in President Trump's second term. Now, if we went back to the House, there won't be any impeachment because we'll be in control.

And let's hope that's the case. Well, you mentioned the legacy of President Trump and what he's been able to accomplish in the past four years. Before we finish up a few questions on impeachment, what are a few points of those legacy that you want to highlight most? Do you think have been most successful? In the president's first three years, you think, about this. Tax is cut, regulations reduce, economy growing at an unbelievable rate, lowest unemployment in 50 years, wages up, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh on the court, out of the Iran deal, embassy in Jerusalem, hostages home for North Korea, new NAFTA agreement, and the first president to appear in person at the march for life and speak about the sanctity of human life. That is amazing.

I mean, with everyone against him in this town, all the press, all the Democrats against him, did all that. And the one that really stands out to me is the embassy in Jerusalem. Because for as long as I can remember, every presidential candidate, Republican and Democrat Party, when they run for office, they say, you elect me, I'm going to put the embassy in Jerusalem.

And they get elected, and then they come up with a million reasons why they can't do what they said they were going to do. And a bunch of excuses why they can't do what the people elected them to do. This president, he got all that same pushback from the State Department and all the interagency consensus and all the people think they're so, you know, in the swamp we think they're so brilliant. And this president

said, I said I was going to do it, I'm going to do it. And he did it. We were just in Israel last week with Ambassador Friedman, who's doing a great job. And saw the embassy there right in Jerusalem. And it's great. And it's like that sent a message when this president did that, which so many presidents had candidates campaign on and then failed to deliver on. When he did it, it just sent a message to the whole world. This guy means business.

And that's what I so appreciate about the president. Thank you for sharing that. That is really powerful. going back real quickly to impeachment, what were your constituents back in Ohio saying during those couple months? They thought it was crazy. They literally did. And they're like, what is going on? What is Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi and these people thinking?

We are 10 months before an election, you know, as he got going here, we didn't. Let the American people decide. We elected this guy. Plus in our district, they understand the things I just talked about what this president's done. They understand all that. So they were like, this is crazy. And it was. It was. Like I said, the factual on the president's side.

We spent four and a half months where we could have, the old principle in the economics is opportunity costs. When you're focused on one thing, there's an opportunity cost, there's an opportunity lost that you could have been doing something else. And we could have been working on health care. We could have been working on further securing the border and building the border wall. We could have been working on additional tax reform that would give more money to families.

Lots of things we could have been working on. But instead, we were focused on impeachment. So that's what our constituents are. So on that point, Now that these hearings are over, Trump is acquitted. What should Congress be working on now that they're not tied up and all that? Right now, it's a related issue. It's this FISA reform to the FISA laws and the FISA reauthorization bill.

So look, when I said the start of our talk here that they're never going to stop and that impeachment really started in 2016, understand they could still do the same thing to the president in 2020. And the reason we know that is because of what we saw two weeks ago. Two weeks ago, the intelligence community comes to Capitol Hill to brief members of Congress, and they hadn't told the president what they were going to tell members of the Congress. And it turns out stuff they told Adam Schiff, he went out and leaked to the press. But it also turns out the information they gave to people on Capitol Hill wasn't accurate. It was misrepresented.

So they're already starting to try to do to the president in 2020 what they did to him in 2016. That more than anything shows us why we need to reform the president. FISA laws and the Patriot Act. The other thing is, Emmett Flood wrote this about a year ago when he was at the White House counsel's office, right when the Mueller report was coming out, Emmett Flood said, we would all do well to remember what they can do to a president. Imagine what they can do to a president. Imagine what they can do to you and I.

If they can do this to a president, think about what they can do to us regular citizens. That's the scary part. So this is why we have to reform this and put in place additional safeguards, enhance penalties. If someone goes and misrepresents to the FISA court 17 different times information, there's got to be real consequences when people do that. So those are the kind of things we're focused on right now. Well, Congressman Jordan, thank you so much for joining us on the Daily Signal podcast. Thank you.

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