The Daily Signal - #356: The 'Problematic Women' on Online Dating, Lena Dunham's New Apology

Episode Date: December 6, 2018

Today is our “Problematic Women” edition of our podcast, and Daily Signal’s Kelsey Harkness and Ginny Montalbano will be joined by Beverly Hallberg to discuss her article on why she’d rather die alone than online date anymore. Plus: They’ll chat about how Lena Dunham is apologizing for defending a male friend of hers accused of sexual misconduct, and the alleged wage gap between men and women.We also cover these stories:--The Trump administration on Thursday took a key step toward rolling back President Obama’s climate agenda.--Once again, lawmakers kicked the can down the road, passing a short-term spending bill. Now the government will stay funded until Dec. 21. --The United States made a strong display of its commitment to Ukraine Thursday, doing an observation flight.The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Friday, December 7th. I'm Daniel Davis. And I'm Kate Trinco. Today is our Problematic Women edition of our podcast. In Daily Signals, Kelsey Harkness and Ginny Montabano will be joined by Beverly Hallberg to discuss her article on why she'd rather die alone than an online date anymore. Plus, they'll chat about how Lena Dunham is apologizing for defending a male friend of hers accused of sexual misconduct and the alleged wage gap between men and women.

But first, we'll cover a few of the time. top headlines. Well, the Trump administration on Thursday took a key step toward rolling back President Obama's climate agenda. Acting EPA administrator Andrew Wheeler announced plans to raise CO2 emissions limits for new coal-fired power plants and reverse the mandate that required new facilities to install carbon capture and storage equipment. Former Trump official Steve Milloy said this mandate amounted to a de facto ban on new coal plants, that according to the Daily Caller. In a statement, the acting administrator said, quote, consistent with President Trump's executive order promoting energy independence, EPA's proposal would resent excessive burdens on America's energy providers and level the playing field so that new energy technologies can be a part of America's future. Apparently, tis the season for spending.

Once again, lawmakers kicked the can right down the road, passing a short-term spending bill. Now the government will stay funded until December 21st, but don't get too excited for any gifts from Uncle Sam to the taxpayers. Signs point to this being yet another bloated spending bill with few, if any, wins for conservatives, despite Republican control of both chambers. Yeah, Christmas is never a good time to rely on Congress to do its job. Everyone wants to get out of town. Yep, and they don't care how much they spend to do it. Well, some GOP senators are getting serious about funding the border wall. Ted Cruz, along with three of his colleagues, introduced a bill on Thursday known as the Wall Act,

which would fully fund President Trump's request for $25 billion to go toward the border wall. The bill would be funded by closing loopholes that currently allow illegal immigrants to receive benefits and tax credits. The Senate's current Homeland Security funding bill would only provide $1.6 billion for the border wall, and the House version would provide only $5 billion. On Thursday, another funeral was held, this time in Houston, Texas for President George H.W. Bush. Jim Baker, who served as Secretary of State and White House Chief of Staff during the Bush administration, remembered his old friend. My hope is that in remembering the life of George Herbert Walker Bush and in honoring his accomplishments, we will see that we are really praising what is best about our nation, the nation he dearly loved,

and whose values he embodied. There is more to say than time permits. And anyway, when measured against the eloquence of George Bush's character and life, our words are very inadequate. And country star Reba McIntyre sang the Lord's Prayer. Give us this day. And forgive our deaths. as we forgive our dead ores.

While U.S. and Japanese naval forces are searching for missing Marines after a mid-air collision caused two U.S. military jets to crash. One Marine has been declared dead and another has been rescued, but five remain unaccounted The mishap occurred 200 miles off the coast of Japan during an overnight training exercise in which an F.A.18 fighter jet collided with a refueling plane. Japanese Admiral Katsutoshi Kawano said his forces plan to continue their search for the missing Marines. The U.S. has made a strong display of its commitment to Ukraine doing an observation flight. Pentagon spokesman Eric Bohan told CNN,

the timing of this flight is intended to reaffirm U.S. commitment to Ukraine and other partner nations. He added, Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukrainian naval vessels in the Black Sea near the Kerch Strait is a dangerous escalation in a pattern of increasingly provocative and threatening activity, end quote. Recently, Russia, of course, has seized three Ukrainian ships. Well, one congressional district in North Carolina is being closely watched amid growing concerns over voter fraud. House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi says Democrats would only call for a new election if the race deadlocks, but as of now, the Republican Mark Harris leads the Democratic candidate Dan McCready by 905 votes.

The State Board of Elections has refused to certify the results due to voting irregularities, which include an unusually high number of absentee ballots, along with the fact that a number of voters say their mail-in ballots were picked up by canvassers. That's illegal in the state of North Carolina. The State Board of Elections will meet on December 21st to decide on a way forward. Next up, we'll have our Problematic Women. Do conversations about the Supreme Court leave you scratching your head? Then subscribe to SCOTUS 101, a podcast breaking down the cases, personalities, and gossip at the Supreme Court.

On this week's Problematic Women, I'm joined by the Daily Signals-owned Kelsey Harkness and District Media Group President Beverly Hallberg. Thanks for being with us. It's great to be here. All right, we have three big stories to tackle during this segment. First up, two Harvard economists have found some serious flaws in the pay gap question. And I know both of you have written about this, done TV hits on it. And they're saying that these discrepancies and income more than likely and most often have to do with choices that men make versus women. What do you all think?

Well, surprise, surprise. This is what certain organizations have been saying all along. I know independent women's forum. Daily Signal and Heritage have also put articles out about this. I'm just glad that the facts are finally getting out there to more mainstream sources. Kelsey, what do you think? Yeah, if you look at the actual study, it's fascinating. So it was done by two Harvard researchers.

And what they did is they looked at a very controlled environment of the Massachusetts MBTA, where they do have a lot of unions involved regulating how much everyone's getting paid how many hours. So it was a very controlled sort of real-life experiment, if you want to call it that. And what they found is they concluded even in a unionized environment where work tasks are similar, hourly wages are identical, and tenure dictates promotion, female workers earn 89 cents on the male worker dollar. And the reasons for that are fascinating, but very not surprising, I would say. So they found that men take 48% fewer unpaid hours off. They work 83% more overtime hours annually, and they sign up for 7% more scheduled overtime over time. Also, they take almost twice as much last minute unscheduled over time. And what they found

is that women, on the other hand, might prioritize other things like flexibility. They might not want those extra hours because women, some of them might not be the heads of their households, and they'd rather get home to their children at night or get home and just do something else other than work. So what this study really shows, it gives us a real-life example that men and women actually want different things out of the workplace and this gender wage gap. If you actually look at, you know, the statistics behind it, it's the result of choices, not some systematic oppression or inequality that women are facing. And I think it's such a shame when there is misinformation spread, when the numbers are skewed or when they don't take a full study of

what's going on like we're now seeing in this Harvard study and what other research has shown before because it doesn't help women to make them feel like they're victims. Right. It doesn't help women to do that. Well, and if anything, it's the opposite. It shows that women tend to have more flexibility in the workplace than men, or they feel that they have the freedom to act. And they fought for it.

Exactly. You know, this is what a lot of women want in the, and what actually the Wall Street Journal editorial board put it well. They argued that if we go too far in forcing a lot of these regulations. and quote unquote equal pay, it's actually going to hurt women because women want these flexible working hours. And if everything has to be perfectly equal in the workplace, that means that women aren't going to have the freedom to make their own hours. And, you know, their husbands might not have the freedom to take extra hours because those hours will have to be equally

allocated between men and women. I think this just, this is exactly what happens so often in the feminist movement. You know, maybe conservative women, I find that we agree with them in the beginning. Maybe there was something problematic from the start. But then they go way too far and overcompensating for that. And what they actually end up fighting for and oftentimes, unfortunately, getting, ends up being very hurtful to women's interests. Well, and Beverly, you mentioned misinformation.

And to me, that's a huge question. Now we have, you know, thankfully some Harvard economists who are saying, hold up, wait a second. Here are the facts. It has to do with actual choice. choices, but how do women, especially conservative women, fight the narrative that the left really tries to push that there's some nefarious gender gap? Well, it's speaking up more and more.

Sadly, I don't think that even though Harvard has a study, we're going to be hearing more quote-unquote feminist using this and saying that we were wrong and the data proves otherwise at this point. So this is a matter of speaking up. I know even personally, so I have a business, female business owner, one of the things that I fight against quite often is that women want to ask me about, what has it been like for you as a female business owner? Like it's some scary thing.

Like what glass ceiling did you have to break through? And I always tell them, the reason people hire me is because of our services, not because I'm male or female. And I think that, well, as you were just saying, Kelsey, I agree that in times past, there were things that we had to overcome, absolutely. We then get to this place where we need to say that women. have been held back and that they're victims and that they have to overcome all these odds in order to achieve what they want. And I constantly come back to that the things that have been

most beneficial to me as a female business owner is the fact that I live in America and can do it. So there are no laws against me doing it, whereas if I was in Saudi Arabia, I couldn't even drive, for example. And also technology. Technological advances have benefited women so much. You even go on different websites and different things that women. women make and sell online. But my business has only women working for us. That wasn't, it's not part of our business motto to only hire women, but that's what's worked for us so far. It's been the technology and all of us teleworking. So I know I personally, and the show does it all the time, but try to push back against this narrative that I somehow as a female have had to overcome certain

barriers that men haven't had to overcome. Absolutely. And another way I would say we can fight against this narrative is to lift up examples like this. Luckily, the study actually made publication because we have seen some examples on college campuses and college and higher education institutions of them bearing studies that are inconvenient to the liberal narrative. But look, that didn't happen in this case. We have a real life example that shows the gender pay gap is a myth. So we need to talk about it. We need to educate people about it. And we need to specifically reach out to women on college campuses to educate them and even younger because I agree with Beverly. The biggest fear I have for women in this country is that they are growing up being

told they are victims. That's really a dangerous mentality and both of you are doing a great job putting forward the facts. Now moving on to our next topic, Lena Dunham, who is the writer of the television show girls. She also acted on the show. She is now very sorry for defending an alleged rapist. Now, the alleged rapist was one of her friends. This person was also a writer on the show Girls. And at the time when this accusation came out, Lena Dunham said, I am absolutely sure this is one of those 3% incidents where it's been misreported. Well, she has changed her tune and said, as I said earlier, what she did by defending the alleged rapist was inexcusable. What do you think about her flip on this? Well, I think facts always matter. So I want to be consistent across the board and

say that whenever there is an accusation, I think that both sides should be heard and we should get to the bottom of this. But I will say that there is a great amount of hypocrisy among liberal women who always want to say that the woman is right. If it happens to be, if someone is accused that's a man who is Republican or conservative, that you always believe the woman. And I want to, if you guys haven't seen this, I thought it was amazing, A&E's Clinton affair. If you want to really go back to the origins of women not being believed, watch the Clinton affair. It's fascinating. They interview Juanita Broderick.

They interview all the women accusers. Monica Lewinsky is featured in it. And to see the difference from where that was years ago and to what Judge Kavanaugh went through, for example, it's really startling. And I think with all of this, it's not, look what you guys did. So we need to do this. It's, no, we should have a system where people are heard and facts are brought to the table. and regardless of what party you're from, people should be heard. And so I just see this as another example of hypocrisy, and especially from Lena Dunham,

someone who claims to be such a feminist for her to have to backtrack on this. I actually think it's quite telling that people's political leanings tend to judge how they think about it. Well, and Kelsey, at this event where she apologized, she said, quote, my own heart and mind had been colonized by patriarchy. Yes. Such beautiful language. Yes. Poetry. So she published a long apology in the Hollywood reporter. I would encourage you to read it because you'll see more phrases like that that are kind of unbelievable. And then she also made an apology during a speech at the Hollywood Reporter's star-studded event. Women in entertainment, of course, none of us were invited. But what's important to know about this story, is I agree, Beverly, we don't even know the full facts behind this alleged rape. But what we do know is Lena Dunham not only said, I don't believe you, she also suggested that she had some sort of evidence that could prove this man's innocence.

So that gave other people reason to believe that the accuser was lying. So she actually went a step farther than just saying, I don't believe you. she suggested that she had evidence to undermine her case. So I think that's pretty serious for her to have done that. And then in this written apology, she said she's admitted she didn't actually have any evidence. And now she thinks that the rape or assault probably did occur. And I watched her speech at this event, a lot of familiar celebrity faces in the audience. It was crazy to me to see how quickly they applauded her.

Because she was brave enough to apologize. Exactly. And this is a question I have for both of you that I've been grappling with because I'm someone who really does believe in forgiveness. And I think the Me Too movement is deficient in the amount of forgiveness they're willing to incorporate into the healing process and how do we deal with these kinds of things? And when do we forgive someone and how do we forgive someone? In Hollywood, you know, when it's Lena Dunham, they had,

No problem forgiving her. My question for both of you is, do you think that Lena Dunham deserves to be forgiven for what she did? Well, I think everybody deserves forgiveness. Like Beverly said, it is so hypocritical. So I think watching it, you can become a little bitter at seeing it all play out because during all the Kavanaugh mess, we saw how nasty this can get. We saw the hypocrisy.

But at the end of the day, Lena Dunham's opinion really doesn't matter. What matters are the facts of these situations. that happens, what matters is presumption of innocence and then justice playing out like our courts are supposed to play them out. I think forgiveness does matter. I think all of us are trying to grapple with how do we move forward in these types of situations. I would like to hear Bill Clinton apologize to Monica Lewinsky. He still won't apologize even though he acknowledged what happened.

So I think forgiveness does go a long way, not just because people do make mistakes. And of course, if people are sincere, second chances matter. But I actually think that this is an issue we need to come together on. I don't think this should be partisan. This should be something that man, woman, regardless of political leanings, we should want the truth to be heard. If somebody has been victimized for that to come out, if somebody is wrongfully accused for that to come out.

And so I think forgiveness is a first step, but it should be the same across the board. And we've seen so many men's lives ruined, many of them rightly so, for these types of assaults and rates and accusations and so forth. And so I think what's what I'm struggling with is that I am someone who actually wants to see more forgiveness be incorporated in this conversation. But it just rubbed me the wrong way. How quickly, you know, the liberal Hollywood establishment was to forgive Lena Dunham on this, on this front when they refused to forgive a lot of the men who have done some really awful things as well. I think it's a really complicated question.

I didn't mean to put you both on the spot. But, you know, and I struggle with it because on one hand, I think there is room for forgiveness. But my question is, did she do enough? Or is it just because she is this Hollywood A-lister, you know, who people want to forgive because they want to watch her movies and see her succeed because she is, quote-unquote, this big feminist leader? Well, I think it's even this way when it came to Bill Clinton. The reason people let it go is they said, well, we like what he's doing as president.

So if people like what you're doing in your own personal life or in your own political activism, they want to overlook it because they like everything else. And once again, that has to be consistent across the board. I actually think if you, I mean, it's pretty bad to say that you have evidence to say that somebody's lying and then that was false. And that's really, really bad versus saying, this is my friend and I believe him. Like, I understand why people at the Today Show probably believe Matt Lauer. I struggle to believe the accusations. They had never experienced that.

So I understand that. But I do think that the forgiveness is quicker. And I want to bring up one other story. I tweeted about this last week. There was a woman, ex-girlfriend of a 49ers linebacker named Rubin Foster. And she testified that she lied about domestic violence. And he went all through all this public scrutiny, all this PR battle because she was mad that he broke up with her. And so when these stories come out that people, that somebody has lied, whether it's a man line or a female line, we need to also put those out there because there is this perception by so many women that women always tell the truth.

No, they don't. Women lie. We're human. Little secret. We all lie. who have actually been assaulted, who have actually have things that really have happened to them. It's unfortunate. I think across the board, the Me Too movement has a consistency problem.

And I don't think we have all the answers, but there are just so many glaring hypocrisies like the stories we're talking about today that come up that show the movement really is, to use the word, it's very problematic. But I do, you know, think conservative women, we need to. not just complain about it and call out the pocrasies, we have to be a part of the solution. It's important for us to have these more difficult conversations if we do want to see real change and consistency, like you just said. Now, Beverly, on to something a little bit more personal. You wrote a piece for the Federalist called Why I'd Rather Die Alone than Date

Online. What inspired you to write this piece? Well, I hesitated for quite a while. I'm not going to lie. I've written about a lot of things, mostly about policy and communication and politics and I didn't know if I wanted to wade into the waters of talking about my personal life and being single in D.C. But I decided to because I have so many other single friends who are amazing and want to find a spouse and it's a journey, journey to get there. And so the reason I wrote it is because I had tried online dating and tried it a couple times and a couple years back decided that that wasn't for me for a variety of reasons, which I outline in the piece and the Federalist.

And not everybody took to that so well. People still think that, no, you really should give it a try, that somehow technology is the answer for finding your future spouse. So everybody does seem to be doing it. I think it works for some people. I know plenty of people who met their spouse or their boyfriend or girlfriend online. For me, it didn't fit with my personality. And so I just wanted to put it out there.

So some of the reasons you outline are that online dating creates the wrong incentives. it waste time and is all around a disappointing, frustrating practice. Whether or not you support, whether or not you like online dating, I think most people would agree with you that it's a frustrating process. But how do you compare that to people who would say, well, dating in, I guess what do you call real life? Like in person? The traditional way. Yeah.

The old-fashioned way. You know, that is frustrating and difficult as well. Yeah. So dating is frustrating. I'll be honest with my personality. I really don't enjoy dating. My favorite part of a relationship is the comfortable part. So some people really like the excitement of meeting somebody new and dressing up.

And like the idea of a blind date is just awful to me. And so you have to sign yourself up for lots of blind dates. And I realized that could just be a necessary thing to do in order to meet someone. But I found that I just felt, I don't know how to even describe it, but just it didn't sit right with me the way the process worked. And part of that is because it is a transactional process. So here you are sifting through profiles that people, of course, put their best foot forward and their best picture forward. And you're sifting based on different attributes and character traits. And while I think it's really good to be able to find people who align with you for

my case, Faith, faith is really important to me. There are going to be those certain must-haves. So much of it wasn't about a must-have. And in order to do this process, as well, and this is why you learned and going through it, you have to go on a lot of dates with a lot of different people. And I found that my mentality just can't do that. Like, I want to get to know one person. Is this right or is this not right? And then I would find out that that person would be dating lots of other people.

And I did not know how to do the multiple people at a time thing because I'm like, but they're a person. And I want to get to know them. And so in order to I think really do it well, you have to view people differently. You have to view them as, okay, here's a potential option. for me, not who is this person. And so I really struggled with how that made me feel. And also, it just took a lot of time. And I felt my time was better spent elsewhere.

And so I just came to the decision on it that if God was going to bring somebody along, he was going to do it without the use of online dating. And I could live with that. Do you think there's a difference between faith-based online dating websites that are more intricate like Christian Mingle, for example, versus Hinge and Tinder and some of these that you quite literally just swipe people into the trash can. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely ones that range from faith base to hookups.

So take your pick. There is something for everybody out there. So I do think that there's a lot more, there are a lot more guidances and I would say some checks and balances on the faith base. ones and you already know that you agree on certain things. But at the same time, anybody could still get on. And there was still this process of, and I mentioned this the article as well, there was an accountability. So being ghosted can happen in normal, traditional dating, but happened quite often, happens quite often, not just to me personally, but to my friends who I talked to, where they've

been seen someone for a few times, maybe a month, and all of a sudden they never hear from the person again. And that's because there's no built-in accountability. I actually find it very helpful to go on dates with someone that you meet through your own sphere, whether that's through church or through friends, even friends setting you up, even if it's a blind date through friends, if that person just doesn't respond back or just falls off the face of the earth, there's accountability. Usually the person will at least clarify that they don't see it going anywhere because they're afraid of being that person and their friends not speaking well of them moving forward.

So I just found that personally it's, yes, there are sites that are better than others. I think that's important. But you really do have to wade through all these options, the lack of accountability and a time-consuming process. I imagine we might have some listeners right now who have children or grandchildren who they are, you know, hoping and praying will find, you know, someone to marry in the near future. And it seems like

the question in 2018 has come to the point where you're forced to explain why you're not online dating. If you're still single at a certain point, well, why wouldn't you be online dating? Have you faced that? And if so, what's your advice for how to navigate that question that in a lot of ways is kind of inappropriate. Yeah, what a lot of women face, especially as they enter their 30s, and I don't mind saying how old I am. I just turned 39, is that they think the reason you're single must be because you're too picky. That must be the reason and because you haven't really tried. Like that is the reason. And so, once again, I'm a Christian, so my faith matters. And one of the lines that I have been using that's worked really well for people who want to know and have the same faith

is say I'm single because I'm obeying. I'm obeying God. And what I mean by that is, is I'm not turning away people who have my same faith. So it's not that I'm being picking that department. I'm actually saying for people who don't line up in that area, I'm not even going to go on the date because it's not going to go anywhere. So I think that there's just as society changes as people's, their priorities change in reference to God and what matters to them.

If people are listening and they care about God, young people coming up, they're going to have a harder and harder time, finding someone if faith really matters to you. So that's been the line that's worked well for me. Then people will say, well, you should date somebody at your church and I would agree. But dating in church is hard too. There are also, there are of course, issues there. But I was really surprised by some of the comments and the responses about this article. I actually got some of the most heated comments that I've ever gotten from anything I've written. And to me, I was like, this is just my own personal story. One thing that I wanted to be very consistent about in the article, because men face

these challenges too, is I didn't want it to be a male bashing article. And I hope I achieved that. I mean, this is something that both men and women face. But people who had really strong reactions about it, I won't even say some of the comments. But it was surprising to me that this struck a chord with so many people. What were some of their reactions? That I should die and that I, yeah, I even had some comments like that, probably because the title is why I'd rather die alone than date online, but them saying that there's no way

that I have issue dating anybody, that I must be too picky, and this has to do with me being a you know what, like comments like that. I was like, okay. So, I mean, you know how it is, Kelsey. People comment on things that you write, but it really struck a chord with some people who thought it was horrible that I was saying that I, personally choose not to date online. That's what's so frustrating about, you know, as us, you know, women who mostly stick to policy, but once in a while want to talk about our lives too and talk

about these things in culture that really do matter. I mean, online dating is relatively new. It's a new thing that we should be assessing the pros and cons to. And I think you very fairly laid out the fact that a lot of people find love via online dating. And that's a great thing. But this, it didn't work for you and this is why. Something I didn't put in the article, if I could add this, another reason why I can't date online is because when I did it before I got matched up with my clients. Oh, no. And that's really awkward.

So as somebody who has a business, it's not a good look for business. So that was the other side too. A little side note. Yeah, but these comments are unfortunate. I hope none of our listeners are people who, you know, sit at home and leave these comments because, you know, the point of these articles is not necessarily to agree or disagree. It's to recognize that there are a lot of different experiences and perspectives out there. And it's worth talking about there's so many people I know who, you know, are online dating,

but don't want to be online dating. They feel it's a last resort. And you were being honest and saying, hey, I'm not doing it anymore. I tried and I'm over it. And I think that's perfectly okay. And I think it took a lot of hope. Yeah. I think it took a lot of bravery for you to come out and write a piece like this.

So we really applaud you and thank you for it. Yeah, that was extremely brave. We need more people. Even if you disagree, put your opinion out there. You might not realize that somebody else feels exactly the same way that you do. And now they know they're not alone. I have one that I'm contemplating working on. I'm going to put it out there because I feel like if I put this out there, it's personal,

that maybe I'll write it. Why I've decided not to freeze my eggs. Oh, that's a good follow. question that women in their 30s if they're single are asked. Absolutely. Are they going to freeze their eggs? Well, let us know if you write it. We'll have me back on.

I will. I will. I put it out there now, so now I have to. Clifhanger. Even though we know that you didn't, but we don't know why. That's true. Well, thank you both. This was a wonderful episode.

Have a great day. Thank you. Thank you, Jenny. Liberals have pretty much cornered the market on 101-style podcasts that break down tough policy issues in the news. Until now. Did you know that every week, Heritage Explains intermingles personal stories, news clips, and facts from heritage experts to help explain some of today's hardest issues from a conservative perspective? Look for Heritage Explains on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to The Daily Signal podcast brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or SoundCloud, and please leave us a review or a rating on iTunes to give us feedback. Rob and Jenny will be back with the podcast on Monday. You've been listening to The Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis, sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Rampersad.

For more information, visitdailySignal.com.