The Daily Signal - #360: Religious Freedom in Hard Places

Episode Date: December 11, 2018

Religious freedom is a legacy of the American founding, but unfortunately on the world stage, real religious freedom is often the exception rather than the rule. Today, our colleague Rachel del Guidice sits down with Sam Brownback, the former governor of Kansas who is now ambassador-at-large for international religious freedom. They’ll discuss some of his efforts to advance the cause of religious freedom around the globe. Plus: How do you get your news? We'll discuss a new study from the Pew Research Center showing how most Americans choose to stay informed.We also discuss the following stories:-Michael Cohen gets three years in prison and a few hefty fines.-France declares Christmas market shooting to be an act of terrorism.-President Donald Trump continues to call for border wall funding, as Democrats dig in.-British Prime Minister Theresa May survives a high-stakes confidence vote from her party.The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Nothing else is Rees. This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, December 13th. I'm Jenny Maltabano. And I'm Daniel Davis. Religious freedom is a legacy of the American founding. But unfortunately, on the world stage, too often, real religious freedom is the exception rather than the rule. Today, our colleague Rachel Del Judas, sits down with Sam Brownback, the former governor of Kansas, who's now ambassador at large for international religious freedom. They'll discuss some of his efforts to advance the cause of religious freedom, a brother.

Plus, how do you get your news? We'll discuss a new study from Pew about the new trends in news consumption. But first, we'll cover a few of the top headlines. Well, Michael Cohen is going to jail for three years. That's the sentence that President Trump's former lawyer received on Wednesday in federal court. Cohen was convicted on charges that included tax evasion, lying to Congress about Trump's business dealings in Russia, and hiding payments to two women that claimed to have had affairs with Trump.

In addition to three years behind bars, Cohen will have to pay $1.4 million in owed taxes, a $50,000 fine, and half a million dollars in forfeiture. Cohen appeared emotional in court Wednesday. He confessed that he had chosen darkness over light and said, quote, I am truly sorry, and I promise I will be better. France has declared an attack on their largest Christmas market in act of terrorism. Earlier this week, a gunman wounded two people and killed Fort Thirteen. in Strasbourg. The suspect in the attack had nearly 30 criminal convictions in France, Germany,

and in Switzerland. President Trump tweeted, another very bad terror attack in France. We are going to strengthen our borders even more. Chuck and Nancy must give us the votes to get additional border security. And Senator Lindsay Graham encouraged the president to do just that. Here's what he said on Tuesday on Fox News. The caravans have created more uncertainty on the border, not less. What signal are we sending to the world if we reduce funding for border security in light of increased threats? We're inviting more caravans. So the president is right.

This liberal arrogance has to come to an end. Nancy Pelosi said, I will never put DACA associated with the wall. Well, we did that in February. So this idea that the president needs to back down doesn't make sense to me. He needs to dig in and get the very Democrats who voted for 25. billion to give him five because we need the money now more than ever. Groups of migrants have marched to the U.S. consulate in Tijuana and are demanding reparations. One group is demanding $50,000 each or entry into the United States.

The second group of immigrants is asking the U.S. to speed up the asylum process. This comes as President Trump is threatening a government shutdown if he does not receive funding for the border wall. Well, British Prime Minister Theresa May lives to fight another day. The Prime Minister survived a no-confidence vote from her conservative colleagues on Wednesday. The party voted 200 to 117 in favor of keeping her as the party leader. May has faced tense criticism in recent weeks due to her failure to secure an agreeable Brexit package with the European Union. Her victory on Wednesday puts her squarely in the driver's seat of Brexit.

However, in recent days, she signaled that she would step down before the next election, which will be in 2022. Well, up next Daily Signal reporter, Rachel Del Judas sits down with Sam Brownback. Want to get up to speed about the Supreme Court? Then subscribe to SCOTUS 101, a podcast about everything that's happening at the Supreme Court and what the justices are up to. Well, it's my honor to welcome Ambassador Sam Brownback, who is Ambassador at large for International Religious Freedom at the State Department to the Daily Signal podcast. Ambassador Brownback, thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, happy to do that and appreciate your work. Well, thank you so much. So we just observed the 20th anniversary of the International Religious Freedom Act on October 27th, which in part established an ambassador at large for international religious freedom here at the State Department, which is the role you hold currently. Why is this anniversary as well as this role so important?

It impacts the world, and the United States is one of the key countries and oftentimes one of the few countries willing to really put. on the issue of religious freedom. Most people in the world move by what their faith tells them. That's a formative piece of them in the West, less so, but over most of the world, this is the dominant factor. And yet much of the world, we're looking at numbers now, nearly 80% live in a religiously restrictive atmosphere, so they don't have freedom of religion. And we find this, the United States, the religious freedom is a foundational right. It's a God-given right. Governments don't have the right to interfere with it. So we're going to push on it. And the reason it's so important is it impacts so many people and so few countries are willing

to really stand up and push for it. How would you characterize the current state of international religious freedom today? If you're in one of those religiously restrictive atmospheres, not good. And unfortunately, I think the religious restrictions have been growing over the last 20 years. There are places where it's quite good, but the trend line has been against religious freedom. Yet I think with the United States really leaning in on this, pushing on this, and then showing to countries, if you want to grow, one of the key things you can do is provide religious freedom. It's an attraction thing for people. If you want minds to come into your country, they want to be free to think, and that includes to think however they want to

with their faith. If you want less terrorism, one of the better things you can do is religious freedom. So we're trying to really educate and push countries that, yeah, it may be a simple answer for you to put more religious restrictions on and it may feel good. It is bad for your nation's long-term trajectory. And we're getting some places to listen and to look at it. It has been key that this administration, Trump administration, has really highlighted this topic and pushed it aggressively. World pays attention, and we're getting people to start to act in the right direction.

You've talked a lot on social media about the plight of religious freedom in Iran, citing recently that Iran has imprisoned more than a dozen Christians for participating in house churches, and that recently four Iranian Christians were sentenced to a combined 45 years in prison for being part of a house church amid other charges they received. What stands out to you about the crisis of religious freedom there

Are there any ways folks here in the states can support your efforts to raise awareness about the situation of Christians and religious minorities in Iran? What stands out is that the strictness and the heavy-handedness in Iran, there are a number of places that restrict religious freedom. But they're pretty, in some cases, they're fairly tolerant about it or they're not, they don't implement it. In Iran, you get caught, you're going to jail. or you can get a hand cut off, or you'd be killed. That for practicing a faith that's different than the dominant Shia religion there. So this applies to Muslims if you're outside of the Shia faith, but it certainly applies to Christians.

It applies to Baha'is, Jews, others, Zoroastrians, which is an ancient faith in that region. And you just find that Iran is just, it's a very heavy police state with very heavy-handed restrictions that they enforce in an aggressive fashion. And are there ways that Americans here in the States can basically talk about and, you know, promote the efforts that you're doing at the State Department? Are there practical ways that you would encourage people who want to get involved to promote religious freedom abroad to get involved? Well, there's a couple ways in general for people to get involved. The one I really encourage people to do the most is in general, educate yourself on a place or two around the world that

you're concerned about, where you feel in your heart that, you know, I don't like what's going on in Iran or I don't like this situation of what a number of people of faith are experiencing in Nigeria. When you start to educate yourself on the Internet, invite people in, because there are people in the United States from Iran, from Nigeria, from all over the world that have experienced the persecution that are here. Locate them. find them on the internet, invite them into your community, to your faith area, have them speak.

And then contact members of Congress, because really the Congress has driven the religious freedom agenda. They created this office, not the administration, 20 years ago. They are the ones that have pushed this, and it's because they feel from the people. And then I urge people, too, to communicate to folks in that country. Often you can get messages into them and hear from them because the, The world is so much more interconnected now than it used to be. So you can really educate and help and promote.

You mentioned this earlier, but how would you say the Trump administration has made religious freedom and international religious freedom a priority more so possibly than previous administrations? Well, they have made it a priority higher than previous administrations. They held the first ever ministerial on religious freedom. And ministerial is where you bring in and invite in foreign ministers from around the government. the world on a topic. This was the first one ever in the world done at the foreign minister level, the secretary of state level, on religious freedom. We had 84 countries participate. We had a thousand people from civil society and religious groups at it. I think what we found, because we did this on such short notice, is that we've hit a vein. This is something that

touches a lot of people and it touches them very deeply. And governments have been messing. in this space in an increasing role for the last three decades. It needs to stop. The trend lines need to go the other way where people can have religious freedom. And I think what we found where people responded so quickly to this is a deep interest. We're going to hold another one this next year. We're going to do regional ones on different topics in various countries around the world. There are number of countries that are stepping up to do this. And my hope is, really, we can bring this iron curtain of religious persecution down, the same way as the iron curtain of communism came down so you can get that burst of freedom. You know, as the world wakes up, most countries

in the world have signed on to the UN Declaration of Human Rights, which includes religious freedom. So most have made a commitment to this. They just don't do it. We've been hearing a lot in the news about Russia's aggression against the Ukraine when it comes to Russia's military, but you were recently in the Ukraine talking to folks there about religious freedom and the struggles they're facing. What was that visit like and what did you learn about what the Ukrainian people are facing in regards to religious freedom? Well, the big one that the Ukrainian people themselves are pushing for is to have a separate Orthodox Church. They historically have been under the Russian Orthodox Church, but then Russian government has used the Russian Orthodox Church

in places. And Ukraine being one of those to do soft power projection and do some control. Ukrainians want their own Orthodox Church. And they have voted to have their separate Ukrainian Orthodox Church. And I, that's what I found. And I told them and said, you know, look, the United States supports religious freedom. We support people organizing however they see fit within their own religious structure and that people should be free to organize. It's really quite an issue over there. Ukraine has been a country struggling to establish its own identity of sorts at times. And one of the key things, too, that they want to have is to have a Ukrainian Orthodox Church as part of what Ukraine is about. One of the highlights from this year, I think, for many

Christians in this country and even across the world was the release of Pastor Brunson. What was that like? What were some of the victories you saw in that? And what was it like to be involved? in that process? Well, he's an amazing man, Andrew Brunson, and President Trump's an amazing president. He, the President Trump, got that done. He leaned on President Erdogan of Turkey multiple times when the Turks wouldn't let him free. He put tariffs on aluminum and steel coming out of Turkey. It tanked their currency.

Their currency went to record lows off of this, off of one prisoner. And then finally, the Turks said, okay, okay, okay. we'll let him go and did. It was very gratifying. It was very gratifying because Andrew Brunson was an innocent man and a beautiful man of faith. It was gratifying to see an administration go to bat for somebody that was innocent. In spite of all the other equities and all the other relationship issues we have with Turkey, they said, this guy is an American citizen being wrongly treated, and we're going to go to bat for him, and they did. And I was just, delighted to see him get on out.

Lastly, how has your own vast experience in politics and policy representing Kansas in the Senate and then most recently as the governor of Kansas, how has that helped give you a unique perspective for the role that you're currently working in right now? I was, I helped pass the original International Religious Freedom Act 20 years ago. I know what the objective was then. I've seen the act somewhat implemented, a lot of times not implemented. that's helped. And then what helps is I can go to a lot of places

and meet with foreign leaders that I met with previously when I was in the Senate or as governor, but mostly from the Senate and you have a relationship that's already there or there's an authenticity or a lot of people will look at it and say, well, this must be a serious position in the United States if they put somebody that's a former senator in it.

And so you can elevate the topics and that's been very gratifying. And then the most gratifying thing is when you talk with people that you help get out of jail and the beauty of their soul that's been gone through such persecution just really grows my faith because I look at that and I'm just so impressed with the peace and the joy that they have that is so, you can't counterfeit it. You can't act this way.

It has to be a real thing that flows out of you. And I get to meet with people and work with people like that every day that persecuted for their faith, but they persist. They come out, they're pure. They've been through a lot of difficulty. And it's just very rewarding type work to be a part of. Ambassador Brownback, thank you so much for joining us today. My pleasure. Do you have an opinion that you'd like to share?

I'm Rob Blewey, editor-in-chief of The Daily Signal, and I'm inviting you to share. your thoughts with us. Leave us a voicemail at 202-608-6205 or email us at Letters atdailySignal.com. Yours could be featured on the Daily Signal podcast. Well, how do you get your news besides our podcast, of course? Well, a new study from Pew Research shows that Americans still prefer watching the news over reading it and mostly through television. 47% said that they prefer to watch the news, and 34% said they prefer to read it. But the number of people who get their news through the Internet is steadily rising. Two years ago, back in 2016, 28% of Americans said that they preferred to get their news through the Internet,

and today that's up to 34%. So, Jenny, how do you consume your news? So I guess I'm sort of the opposite of what the study shows, because I actually prefer to read it. I like going on Twitter and seeing what's going on. And then if something gets my attention, I'll go on, you know, Wall Street Journal, Fox, whatever the link goes to, if I'm going to watch the news, I usually do it to hear a certain person, you analyze it. So whether that's Dana Perino or Brett Baer, that's why I'm going to watch because I want their take.

Tucker Carlsson. Exactly. Hot takes. Hot takes from Tucker are always great. Otherwise, I just prefer to read it myself and be done. How about you? So sadly, I think I get a lot of my news through social media. I don't know why I said that's sad.

It's just because it's just a habit of scrolling, right? It's that horrible, like, habit of scrolling through, you know, and you find interesting things that way. Your friends posting, so it's a good way to know what your friends are reading. But the other way I find, and this might be, like, kind of odd because I work in this news business along with you. Drudge Report is I go there constantly. And it's funny, when I started using Drudge a few years ago,

I didn't realize the history of drudge, how it like became a thing when they broke the Bill Clinton, the Monica Lewinsky scandal. But it's such a unique place because it's, the website hasn't changed at all since the 90s, and it's just this news aggregation where you find headlines that are kind of sensationalized. But it's all the major headlines,

and it kind of prioritized. is what's good. I also use real clear politics. That's a good news aggregator site. That's a little nicer, I would say, than Drudge has videos as well. But it's interesting because daily signal, you know, we're the daily signal, but, you know, different news organizations also pick up tips from one another. So, you know, we, sometimes I learn of things because Rachel is doing a report on it and I didn't know about it until then. So that's kind of a unique situation. And then, yeah, notifications on your phone. That's another thing. Sometimes if you sign up for those notifications, which you've got to be careful about. You don't always know you're agreeing

to it. You get those push notifications. And so you'll wake up in the morning and see, oh, Washington Post, Michael Cohen gets three years in prison. So sometimes it's involuntary. It is, it is. And well, they're saying now, you know, people are also getting their information from Instagram and Snapchat because more and more news outlets are getting on those platforms because that's where Gen Z is going. Oh, yeah. I think CNN has this feature where you can kind of almost be your own reporter and report things on the ground by sending them things. So that's interesting. It is more interactive that way. Well, we're going to leave it there for today. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast brought to you. from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or SoundCloud, and please leave us a review or rating on iTunes to give us any feedback.

We'll see you again tomorrow. You've been listening to the Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis, sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Rampersad. For more information, visit DailySignal.com.