The Daily Signal - #364: Movie Star Leads a Youthful Revolution in India

Episode Date: December 14, 2018

Pawan Kalyan made a name for himself as a movie star in India. Now he’s leading his own political movement. He and Nadendla Manohar, who recently joined the Jana Sena Party in India, speak to The Daily Signal during their visit to Washington, D.C. Plus: A New York Times op-ed suggests human extinction might not be such a bad idea.We also cover these stories:--The White House may be signalling a willingness to accept a spending bill without their requested funding for a border wall.--Rep. Martha McSally, who narrowly lost the Arizona Senate race  in November, is now going to become a senator--by filling the John McCain seat.--Thanks to a new rule issued by the Justice Department, bump stocks -- which all guns to fire much more rapidly -- will become illegal.The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, December 19th. I'm Kate Trinco. And I'm Daniel Davis. Pawan Kalyan made a name for himself as a movie star in India. Now he's leading a political movement. He spoke to The Daily Signal during a visit to Washington, D.C., and we'll play that interview in today's episode. Plus, some people are arguing that human extinction might actually be a good thing.

Seriously, in the New York Times. We'll discuss. But first, we'll cover a few of the top headlines. The White House may be signaling a willingness to accept a spending bill without their requested funding for a border wall. Here's press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Tuesday. The Senate's thrown out a lot of ideas. We're disappointed in the fact that they've yet to actually vote on something and pass

something. So when they do that, we'll make a determination on whether or not we're going to sign that. In the meantime, we're looking at every avenue available to us possible. The president's asked every one of his cabinet secretaries to look for funding that can be used to protect our borders and give the president the ability to fulfill his constitutional obligation to protect the American people by having a secure border. So we're looking at the other options. In the meantime, we'll see what the Senate does. We'll let you know we have an announcement on that front. The deadline for a spending bill is this Friday. Previously, President Trump

had said he had to get at least $5 billion for the wall in any spending bill. Well, former national security adviser Michael Flynn expected to be sentenced on Tuesday, but the judge decided to postpone it until after Flynn had finished cooperating with special counsel Robert Mueller. Flynn pleaded guilty last year to lying to the FBI about the subject of conversations that he had with Russian officials after the 2016 election. In the courtroom Tuesday, Judge Emmett Sullivan grilled Flynn, saying, quote, all along, you were an unregistered agent of a foreign country while serving as the national security advisor to the President of the United States. Arguably, that undermines everything that flag over here stands for, end quote.

He also said, arguably, you sold your country out. Flynn will likely be sentenced sometime in 2019. Representative Martha McSally, who narrowly lost the Senate race to Democrat Kristen Cinema in November, is going to become a senator by filling the John McCain seat. While Senator John Kyle had been in that seat recently, he had announced he intended to step down at the end of the year. On Tuesday, Arizona Governor Doug Ducey announced McSally would be the new replacement. Well, thanks to a new rule issued by the Justice Department, bump stocks, which allow guns to fire much more rapidly, will become illegal. Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker said, quote,

We are faithfully following President Trump's leadership by making clear that, bump stocks, which turn semi-automatics into machine guns, are illegal, and we will continue to take illegal guns off of our streets, end quote. Gun owners will have 90 days until after the rule is published to destroy or turn in their bump stocks to the nearest ATF office. Speaking at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida Tuesday, Vice President Mike Pence had some big news about the U.S. in space. It is my privilege to announce that today President Trump will direct the Department of Defense to establish a combatant command that will oversee all our military activities in space. This space command will be the 11th combatant command in the U.S.

military, joining the Indo-Pacific Command, the European Command, but also it will serve alongside other what are known as functional commands like Strategic Command and Special Operations Command, and it will be led by a four-star flag officer. It will establish unified control over all our military space operations. The Space Force, which will be the sixth military branch, is set for launch in 2020. Well, after years as a private charity, the Trump Foundation is closing. New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood announced that it would be shutting down as their office continues to investigate the Foundation's conduct. Underwood filed a lawsuit against the Trump Foundation last June, alleging that it had used funds illegally, including through unlawful

coordination with the Trump campaign. The Trump Foundation agreed to dissolve under the supervision of a judge and to disperse its remaining funds to other charities. What's our nation's top problem? Well, nearly one in five Americans would say government. That's according to a new Gallup poll. The second biggest concern is immigration with 16% listing it. In third and fourth place, we're unifying the country and race relations with 8% and 7% respectively listing those as top issues. Well, up next are our colleagues Rob Blitz.

Louis and Jenny Montalbano sit down with Indian actor and politician Pawan Kalyan, along with his political ally, Nandla Manohar. If you enjoy listening to the Daily Signal podcast, would you consider a year-end gift to support our work? Your gift enables us to keep doing groundbreaking reporting and the best conservative policy analysis on today's most critical issues. Just go to dailysignal.com slash donate to make your tax-deductible gift today. Thanks for listening. We appreciate your support. We're joined today by Pawan Kalyan, an Indian film actor, producer, director, screenwriter, and politician. Thank you.

Thank you very much. He's joined in our studio by Ndendla Manahar, who joined the Janasina Party in India earlier this year. Thank you for being here. Thank you very much. You've had a busy trip to Washington, D.C. from India. Absolutely. Tell us what brings you to Washington. Well, we, as a political party, we thought we must.

reach out and let people know that we are also in the business of promoting trade and investment and strengthen the relationship between the two countries. So over a period of time, India and U.S. have been very close to each other, but we need political support and people like us coming here to understand better practices in government and also to get some important takeaways that we can go back and implement back in our country. It's been very interesting a two-day trip to Washington, D.C. We met with a lot of senators and congressmen and, of course, the Secretary of Housing. Some of the points that we discussed really impressed us because as a young political party,

we have to build a vision and something for the future. And the takeaways were excellent in our opinion, and this is something that's going to help our country and our people. Let me ask you, we have listeners who probably are wondering, why should America care about what's happening in India and have stronger relations? So what message would you give to them? You understand.

The world population is in India. So what happened India is the largest democracy. What happens in India? Eventually, it will reflect back in other parts of the world. So you cannot ignore what's happening in India. It's very much, it's quite essential for the rest of the world to know about it and eventually it will influence. If some issue happens out there, here you can say the great workforce of Indians are there.

So eventually it will hit the economy in the crucial sectors of business here. So you mentioned trade as one, I know security is another relationship that's important between the United States and India. What other things would you like to see the two countries work more collaboratively together on? You know, all around the world right now, the biggest thing is employment, right? So, you know, India has always supported the drive for technology and intervention in America. A lot of our young engineers have been coming here. They've contributed the time and effort into making some of the successful technology programs and missions out here. So I think we also need to focus on agriculture because that's the biggest employer back in India.

And some of the best practices, the good technology that this country has been building upon is something that we can draw. on and take it back to India and see if you can implement those. The new areas of business, which is very keen for a growing nation like India, is clean energy, waste management, and of course, on the security side, we had to deal with terrorism like USA also had to deal with that issue. And we have collaborated very well on several specific programs. but I think the government of India and the government of America have come forward to sign agreements which enable the transfer of such technology, which earlier would be given only to NATO countries.

So India is the third country after Japan and Korea in Asia to get that benefit, where sensitive technology which was available for security purposes is now being transferred to India. Mr. Kalyon, can you tell us about the journey from being an Indian film? and producer and actor to now a political leader? Maybe, first of all, I never thought of to become an actor, so destiny pushed me to become an actor. But my heart was always looking towards to work for my country. I don't know, I never knew which way to go.

I think eventually the path led to get into politics. And the reason was it's about the public policies if it is affecting common citizens. and I'm not able to. I was just being a helpless guy or being an armchair thinker, armchair activist, and I was sick and tired of it. Constantly, that inner dialogue is killing. To one point it was driving you mad.

Either you do it, I sit at home and do films. But I could not keep quiet. So to answer my conscience, I had taken a call, just plunged into it. And how would you describe the mission of the party that you've started? It's about, India is a very complex country. We don't speak one language.

We are not of one ethnic group. We are hundreds of ethnic groups and we have hundreds of dialects. And we are close to have around 30, 40 languages, different languages and different dialects. We have a lot of cultural clashes. So all these things put together, we have to really steer India. And somehow the destiny is we find something. commonality amidst all this contrasting issues here. And that's what interests us and that's what we want to bond it further.

Because if you don't work it, work towards it, and there are a lot of issues would crop up in the decades to come. And as a part of our journey, as a part of our commitment, we brought all this, we brought all this, normal people ignore it. Because why a particular issue has to rise and states, might get divided into further into smaller fragments, segment. So we want to make sure, so we brought all this into one fall into seven principles

and to unify, because you don't, I don't know how much you have an idea about India. I don't know, the rest of the world does not have it. We have a caste system and we have a religion, we have regional issues. So we brought everything in together. And also this is one principle we brought into the party to bind India. And the second would be development with ecological awareness.

So this is the main core which we are looking forward to this is the fundamental which the party was formed. Just to add to what he said, I mean, you know, most of his followers in the movies were the young people of India

and, you know, he reflects their aspirations earlier in the movies. So the same thing he had to continue in politics to make them feel are confident that there is a person out there who's thinking about us. And he reflects the aspirations of that segment of the population, which is very keen to have a different India in terms of opportunities,

in terms of more broad-mindedness, cutting aside regional disparities, growing to become a global citizen. And as part of the outreach program is what brought us to Washington, D.C. That's wonderful. And, you know, just so our listeners know, I've heard you described as the Tom Cruise or the Denzel Washington of India filmmaking. Of course, those are two popular American actors. You also mentioned that, if I understood you correctly, that your path into acting wasn't something that you planned out.

So how have you been able to live this dream? Because I don't know, me. I came from a very small family. My father was a government to employ, in the police services. Max, my family was looking at me to become into police services so somehow I could not finish my degree and I was into a lot of yoga

and a lot of spiritual, my mind was going towards a spiritual realm so I was learning, I was into a lot of yogic practices I think my family was quite irritated about that and I said, you're growing and you're not doing anything and I said, I don't know what to do, then I said, why don't you try act? then I said, okay, let me try, because my family is in a film business.

So I just tried and someone liked it, and that's how it started off. But whatever I do, I'll be, I put my focus completely into it. That's how it went on. That's great. Well, congratulations on the success that you've had. We've touched on this a bit, but what are some ways that American India can better partner together? Excellent. I mean, you know, like I said, India is still a country which,

is very open to having a very strong relationship with America in terms of trade. And also the fact that most of our young people have a desire and a vision to come and contribute in the universities here as well as the technology areas. But the newer areas of opportunities in India are really growing quicker. And mobile communications, space technology, like I said, about agriculture. And not to forget, you know, waste management and clean energy are some technical areas where America has already advanced itself and we'd be happy to collaborate and, you know, get in people who will be able to invest into new products and new factories back in India.

So I think these are a broad areas where we can collaborate. We've done in aerospace. We've also done in infrastructure like ports. So, you know, the opportunities are plenty. And, you know, we are, like I said, it's a, it's a, it's a, a very democratic nation, which is not regulatory as it used to be, and very open and broad-minded in terms of doing business with America. So many of those areas that you mentioned, of course, are core to the free enterprise system that both of our countries deeply believe in.

Can you talk at all, given the size of the population of India, how that belief in free enterprise and freedom more broadly has lifted people out of poverty and help them to better lives? You'll be surprised to know that India has a population of a billion today. And, you know, both our nations are indeed blessed to be so democratic in their systems. There's a lot of transparency. There's a lot of equality, freedom. This is something that we cherish. This is what the constitution gave us.

And all our citizens work hard towards building up their families and the ecosystem around them. So I think the opportunities are there, but the relationship has to improve even more. We are beyond a stage where we think of, you know, local area domination or wars or situations which used to exist in the 1960s or the 70s. Strategically, a partnership is very important between India and America in the Asia-Pacific region. And it's incredibly rewarding for both of our countries to come together and push this partnership further. You know, at a time when President Trump and China,

are going back and forth on an issue of trade. Can you share how we hear all of the contentious nature of what that relationship is? How is President Trump viewed in India and in terms of relations with this White House in particular? Let me say, thank you. See, the way Donald Trump is viewed in India is like, I think he's, whatever he's doing,

he's doing it for his country. Though it will hurt the interests of Indians. It will hear the interests of other nations. but what he's doing is definitely it's good for the U.S. That's how we look at it. Because that identity politics is quite high on, it could be seen everywhere, right from Catalonia or from Brexit or anywhere, all the countries we go.

And even within India, that identity of, you know, some people who come all the way from other places and they're able to get the benefits better than us and they're able to progress better than us, prosper better than us. And I think definitely that anger is. is quite common in all of the world. I think Donald Trump is representing that part here.

So it paints, definitely it paints. There is no doubt about it. But a part will understand. So it is a kind of contradictory issue there. Interesting. Well, you know, one area where Trump has done things differently, perhaps from some of his predecessors, his use of social media, particularly Twitter,

to talk directly to the American people and people across the globe, frankly. I wanted to ask, because I just, saw a report this week about how India could be really the next significant area of growth for social media companies and technology. What can you tell us about the use of those platforms and how that's changed communication back in your country? He initiated his brainshall is recently from party side. He started he initiated a program. It's called Janata Rangam. It's the wave of people.

That's the meaning of it. So how it went to so? I think he would better to explain it. Before I get into that, I mean, you must know that he's the sixth most popular guy on Twitter. You know, he's got close to three and a half million followers.

And he's actively followed. And what's the handle for our listeners in case they want to check it? It's Pawan Kalyan. At Pavan Kalyan. And this program that he just mentioned about the, in the party, we started a program called Janath Tarangam,

which is waves, acoustic waves, as well as waves, reaching out to people. And it was a knock on every door political campaign. But interestingly, we use technology. And all those knocks on the doors were on Facebook live. So on a particular day, the president of our party, Mr. Pavan Kalyan, also visited houses at 9.30 in the morning. And, you know, this conversation that went live

made people join this incredible revolution back there. and we had almost 30,000 videos on Facebook every day for five days, 30,000. And our social media reach figures was just mind-boggling. We did 12 million in five days. And we had 396,000 people who uploaded the videos. So it was a tremendous experience. And people are really, because this technology really

were making people to participate and they're able to be vocal or verbal about what they feel. and both the party ideology and everything, and we're able to leverage social media and quite an effective manner. See, the biggest, I wouldn't say the biggest, but our core strength is the youth

who follow him and believe his ideology and his fundamental beliefs, our values in life. And those are the ones who wanted to express their support of the party in the right way. And social media gave an opportunity for each of them to be part of that process because as a political party, not be able to reach out to every single person.

Even if it did, we could not have given them an opportunity to participate in the process. But social media, I loved each one of them to connect with him. And end of the evening, he would sit down and make phone calls to, you know, who performed beyond a normal figure, like 200, 300, 300 calls per day these guys would take and he would call them and congratulate them. So it was great. It broke all the protocols, I mean, the regular political protocols, so which made them to be more,

stay to be connected to us. So that gave us a lot of leverage. I think social media is going to be very powerful. That's really inspiring, yes. And you make a great point about social media allowing participation. I know the youth probably certainly really enjoy that. Are there any final messages you'd like to share

with our listeners before we go? You know, like I said, this partnership is very important for both the countries. And we are here as a young political party to also continue the same friendship and partnership. And we're also here to represent our community because most of the community members today are feeling a little, I wouldn't say upset, but a little sad at the new administration,

the new regulatory controls that came in about immigration and how their families and the children could get affected, especially on the H-1B visa regulations that have come in. So we are here to support our community, give them that strength and confidence. At the same time, at the government level, we are here to make the lawmakers understand that this is a process that they also must

respect and take it further. So from my side, I would like to say a lot of cultural understanding should get deepened between U.S. and India. Because we call it America discovered just to,

they want to go to India, but instead of India, they discovered America, Columbus. So there is some connect right from the discovery of America. And all of us feel that there should be a lot of cultural exchange programs is very needed before even to understand before business to hit, take it to the next level. I think a lot of cross-cultural understanding between America and India

because each part of India has a very unique culture. So you cannot see India as one culture because it's a multiculturalism. To understand that, I think each state should have a direct connect. with the U.S. So to understand, to explore their own culture. And so America will have at least minimum, at least 30 to 40 cultural exchanges and that would really deeply enrich the prospects.

In our own experience, I mean, when we talked with lawmakers in the last two days, the ones who had been to India were able to empathize and get on the subject real quick. But the ones who've never been to India would take time to understand the points that we were coming to. So it makes a great difference.

I mean, once, you know, we have this exchange programs on a regular basis and people understand our nation and the culture, I think it will be significantly better. Well, it sounds like a good project for the Daily Signal. Maybe Ginny and I can pay a visit to you in India. I know my colleagues from the Heritage Foundation have already. We will look forward to that. India really shocks you because there's a great wealth and a great poverty. At the same time, people don't complain.

And somehow they're able to withstand the pain and the talk. tolerance is quite high. And still, they don't want your good. They want their own good. And that's what India talks about. And even when Martin Luther King Jr., when he came to India, that's what he expressed. If the same situation would be prevailing in any other country,

it would have led to a bloody war. And how come it does not happen in India? I think that's what anyone can learn from India. Amidst all these disparities, how people are still able to smile and go on with their life and without a bitter bitterness on their face and without a single complaint. I think that part, if you understand the soul of India, it's very easy to deepen the relationships.

That's what I like that. Well, thanks to both of you for coming and spending time with the Daily Signal, sharing your story, and to our listeners, encourage you to check out the work that they're doing, and we'll continue to follow it. Thank you both for letting us participate in this program. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I hope you reach out to India in your podcast, too, and we'll be happy to support that. And we will make sure it will go.

A lot of Indians will reach out to you. Liberals have pretty much cornered the market on 101-style podcasts that break down tough policy issues in the news. Until now, did you know that every week Heritage Explains intermingles personal stories, news clips, and facts from heritage experts to help explain some of today's hardest issues from a conservative perspective? Look for Heritage Explains on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts. Would human extinction be a tragedy? That's the headline of a New York Times op-ed by Todd May. He's a philosophy professor at Clemson University and writes,

quote, human beings are destroying large parts of the inhabitable Earth and causing unimaginable suffering to many of the animals that inhabit it. This is happening through at least three means. First, human contribution to climate change is devastating ecosystems. Second, increasing human population is enroaching on ecosystems that would otherwise be intact. Third, factory farming fosters the creation of millions upon millions of animals for whom it offers nothing but suffering and misery before slaughtering them in often barbaric ways. So I don't even know where to start with this one.

Yeah, there's a lot. But yeah, Daniel, are you four against human extinction? Oh boy. That's a really hard question. I mean, yeah. Or against. Oh, man. I probably lean toward against extinction.

But I'm biased. You don't want to be firm on this. Yeah, I'm biased. You know, look, so I thought what was interesting about this is like the way he comes at the question. Like, you know, obviously nobody wants human extinction, but I think it's the way. Like in itself, like as an isolated thing. Like, that's bad. But he, I think what's interesting is like the relative value that he gives to human.

beings related with animals and the environment and everything. Obviously, all of those things are important. The whole planet is important, but I guess the devil's in the details. Ultimately, do you believe that human race is more important than, you know, ultimately should take precedence over, you know, the animal kingdom or other things? And obviously, like, we want to respect the integrity of the animal kingdom and of the environment and all these things. So like, you know, don't want to disagree about that. But ultimately, it seems like his argument says that human beings might not be the most important thing about the world. Right. And I think it's interesting because he does discuss at one point in the essay how, well, yes, animals, you know, hurt other animals.

But he still sort of sidesubs that question, which is, you know, if human beings were to go extinct, presumably some other dominant animal race, I don't know, I'm not an expert in this, lions or something, could wreck, you know, massive havoc on ecosystems on, no, they may not have factory farming, but it's not like they're going to be super sensitive to the needs of mice or whatever. Yeah, I think, one, it does show sort of this idea that we're all equal, like a human being's life is equal to a fern and some rainforest life, which is very troubling to see that sort of equivalent. But also, I think it's just, I mean, I don't know. And then I'm not a forestry expert, but it does seem that some ecological environments do better when they're managed, you know, managed well by human beings. Yeah. So there's a really telling quote here. He's, he kind of used some analogies saying like if you had, you know, an art museum and you could save either the people in the museum or the priceless historic artworks in the museum, which would you save?

and like how many human lives would you give to save art, any art, if at all. And so that's kind of thought-provoking. And then he kind of uses that and says... Just be clear, I would let all the art paris and take all the human beings. Right, right, right. Well, no comment there. So he says, quote, so then how much suffering and death of non-human life would we be willing to countenance to save Shakespeare, our sciences, and so forth?

unless we believe, and this is the key point, unless we believe there is such a profound moral gap between the status of human and non-human animals, note the way he phrased that, whatever reasonable answer we come up with will be well surpassed by the harm and suffering we inflict upon animals. And I feel like that's where he goes wrong.

Like he doesn't think there's a profound moral gap between the status of humans and animals. And so he's willing to consider at least the relative good of extinction. Right. I mean, yeah, as I said earlier. Whereas if you believe in an absolute moral gap, then that's not even something you would consider. Right. Like if you're essentially saying

a fern's life is equal to a human's life, which seems to be a bit of the premise that he's operating under, at least, you know, a chicken's life is equal to a human's life. And, yeah, I mean, I think it's sort of interesting because, you know, I think one of the things that we've seen so much in today's world is, you know, this crisis of meaninglessness.

on the fact that people seem to need to numb themselves in more and more ways, whether it's through opioids or alcohol addiction or drug addiction or, you know, sex addiction. I mean, there's all sorts of ways in which our society seems to be numbing oriented right now. And, you know, I'm making a jump here, but it seems to me that part of this might be fueled by almost our self-hatred, like this, this understanding of our own inherent dignity as human beings. Yeah, and I would just note, This kind of article seems like super abstract and super philosophical and like kind of just academic. But it's not, I would say. It like when the culture at large begins to absorb that kind of thinking that human beings,

which I think to a large extent, like at least a lot of college student age people tend are absorbing it. You know, believing like human beings are just kind of a leach on the earth. that kind of notion. That has real implications. Like when you lose the idea of the human value and the ultimate human value over really anything else in the world, that has implications, maybe not today, but definitely tomorrow. Or maybe even today. I mean, there's, yeah, I mean, between the addictions in society and the growing suicide rate, I mean, there are reasons to be concerned about how human beings see themselves right now. And also, I was just sort of by this essay, like, and I guess this wasn't his overall point, but, you know, there's plenty of

people, you know, I have my own concerns about factory farming, you know, ecological stuff. Oh, yeah. There's room for argument, debate, and perhaps even, you know, reforms on these issues. Totally, totally. But, like, obviously calling for human extinction. I mean, that just gets rid of the real issue here. It reminded me of food ink. Did you ever see a documentary? I did not. So I don't know if any of our listeners may have seen food ink, but it's a documentary. I think it's over 10, 15 years ago. I had to watch it in health class in high school, and my high school teacher was super liberal,

and he would give us MSNBC articles to read as homework, just to give you an idea. But the documentary itself was interesting in that it showed how, like, there are some corporations that, you know, because they're operating in an incentive structure that's really purely just profit-driven, there are some other considerations that they might be ignoring.

And so I thought it was just, it's a good, you know, whatever you make of the documentary, it's definitely consideration. But maybe let's not say human extinction is the solution. Right. To, you know, mistreatment of animals or something like that. Right. And I think, you know, this is one area where you can also sort of see the market beginning to act. that, you know, people can buy, you know, chickens that were raised and, you know, happy pastures or whatnot.

Yeah. So, yeah, there are ways to tackle it. Like documentaries like Food Inc. that bring to light those things are part of that market process, right? People might demand, you know what? I want organic food because who needs the corporations to make my food for me? And that's like, you know, good for you. Yeah, it's a free country. Well, we're going to leave it there. Thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal podcast, brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation.

Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or SoundCloud, and please leave us a review or rating on iTunes to give us any feedback. We'll see you again tomorrow. You've been listening to the Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis. Sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Rampersad. For more information, visit DailySignal.com.