The Daily Signal - #373: House Conservatives Weigh in on the Wall, Shutdown, and National Emergencies

Episode Date: January 9, 2019

Does President Donald Trump have the authority to declare the situation at the border a national emergency? What should happen at the border? Reps. Jim Jordan of Ohio, Mark Green of Tennessee, and Chip Roy of Texas, join to share their views. We also cover these stories:--Trump again suggested he might declare a “national emergency” if he can’t get a deal for the wall.--Trump announces that, due to the shutdown, he will cancel his trip to Davos, Switzerland, where he was slated to participate in the World Economic Forum.--In a speech in Cairo, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo made very clear America's apology tour days are over. The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This is the Daily Signal podcast for Friday, January 11th. I'm Kate Trinko. And I'm Daniel Davis. Well, the partial shutdown continues as President Trump goes to the border. The shutdown is issue number one in Washington. And this week, we hosted a forum with several top House conservatives to discuss the issue. They discuss the wall, border security, and prospects for reopening the government. We'll bring you that conversation in just a bit. But first, we'll cover

some of the top headlines. Speaking to reporters on the White House lawn, President Trump again suggested he might declare a national emergency if he can't get a deal for the wall. I have the absolute right to declare a national emergency. The lawyers have so advised me. I'm not prepared to do that yet. But if I have to, I will. I have no doubt about it. I will. I have the absolute right to declare this was passed by Congress. So when you say, was it passed by Congress, it was. Other presidents have used it, some fairly often. I have the absolute right to declare a national emergency. I haven't done it yet. I may do it. If this doesn't work out, probably I will do it. I would almost say definitely.

The Heritage Foundation's John Malcolm, a legal expert and an occasional guest at this podcast, weighed in on how Trump would have to proceed if he did this in a Fox News interview. So the first thing the president would have to do is to declare a national emergency under the National Emergencies Act. He would then have to tell Congress why this is a national emergency and define the scope of that emergency. And then he'd have to tell Congress what other statutory authority he is relying upon in order to spend appropriations. but unobligated funds to build a wall. You've just cited a couple of statutes. There are 130-some-odd statutes in the federal code that empower a president to do this kind of thing under appropriate circumstances,

but it would certainly be challenged in court. Well, President Trump flew to Texas on Thursday, where he met with border security officials and reiterated the importance of a wall. They say a wall is medieval. Well, so is a wheel. A wheel is older than a wall. And I looked at every single car out there, Even the really expensive ones that the Secret Service uses, and believe me, they are expensive. I said, do they all have wheels? Yes. Oh, I thought it was medieval. The wheel is older than the wall.

You know that? And there are some things that work. You know what? A wheel works and a wall works. Nothing like a wall. The president also announced that due to the shutdown, he would cancel his trip to Davos, Switzerland, where he was slated to participate in the World Economic Forum. Well, it sounds like President Trump is pretty frustrated with shut down negotiations.

Here's what he had to say about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. We're negotiating and having tremendous success with China. And I find China, frankly, in many ways to be far more honorable than Brian, Chuck and Nancy. I really do. I think that China is actually much easier to deal with than the, the opposition party. This week, the U.S. and China had a series of meetings on trade negotiations. The partial shutdown is having some real effects and not just on federal workers' paychecks. The FDA says that it has suspended all of its routine food inspections and is focusing on food

facilities deemed to be a high risk. And some TSA officers have chosen to resign not knowing when their next paycheck will be. All 50,000 of the TSA employees are considered essential and have to work through the shutdown. In addition to losing some employees, the TSA's union leader, Hydrick Thomas, said that the shutdown could mean longer wait times for passengers at security checkpoints. Bad news for the Venezuelans, Nicholas Maduro was sworn in Thursday for a second term. In a column for the Washington Times, Heritage's Anna Quintana wrote, the election was anything but free and fair. Opposition politicians were imprisoned and or barred from running. Meanwhile, his socialist party cronies controlled the entire electoral system, unquote.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement, the United States condemns Maduro's illegitimate usurpation of power today following the unfree and unfair elections he imposed on the Venezuelan people on May 20, 2018. The United States remains steadfast in its support of the Venezuelan people and will continue to use the full weight of U.S. economic and diplomatic power to press for the restoration of Venezuelan democracy. And Secretary Pompeo is on the road this week in Egypt, where he's drawing a stark contrast from President Obama.

Listeners might recall that in the first year of his presidency, Obama traveled to the Middle East on what some described as an apology tour. Pompeo retracted Obama's remarks and then some. Here's what he said Thursday at a university speech in Cairo. Here in this city that another American stood before you, he told you, that radical Islamist terrorism does not stem from an ideology. He told you that 9-11 led my country to abandon its ideals, particularly in the Middle East.

He told you that the United States and the Muslim world needed, quote, a new beginning, end of quote. The results of these misjudgments have been dire. And here's more. The age of self-inflicted American shame is over, and so are the policies that produce so much needless suffering. The United States under President Trump has reasserted its traditional role as a force for good. Next up, we'll hear from some top house conservatives.

Did you know you can now listen to all of our events through SoundCloud or just by visiting our events page on heritage.org? You now have access to hundreds of events and compelling discussions on policy issues from your car, on the train, or the comfort of your own home. Visit heritage.org slash events for more information or search for the Heritage Foundation. on SoundCloud. Our own Rob Blewey sat down with three House conservatives for conversations with conservatives, a monthly gathering where conservative House members share their thoughts. Listen to Rob chat with Republican representatives, Jim Jordan of Ohio, and House newcomers, Chip Roy of Texas and Mark Green of Tennessee,

and get their takes on the border, the shutdown, and much more. Gentlemen, we're going to get started with a question on topic of everybody's mind, which seems to be the shutdown and border security. We have day 20 of the partial government shutdown, and President Trump is spending the day in Texas on the border. What can you tell us about the situation both there on the southern border and here in the U.S. Capitol? Go ahead and go. Let the guy from Texas go first. My two former bosses, Senator John Corrin and Senator Ted Cruz, are joining the president down there, and I'm glad for that.

The president is right to be focused like a laser on border security. What we have at the border is a crisis. It is humanitarian crisis, and it's a crisis for the security that people at the people. United States. Literally what we're finding right now is that we have American citizens who are dying. We have immigrants who seek to come here who are dying. We have little girls that are getting sold into the sex trafficking trade because we refuse to do our basic job as a sovereign nation to secure our border. The president is right to elevate this. What he's asking for is perfectly appropriate and reasonable and common sense. Exactly what the American people want.

He wants funding for offense for a wall. He wants funding for immigration judges. He wants funding for the technology for our folks on the border to do what they need to do. And there's money in there for humanitarian purposes to make sure we're taking care of people at the border. But what we're seeing is a real tragedy that is totally avoidable if the leaders of this country do what the American people want. No, I'm just going to say everyone can see the Democrats keep talking about this manufactured crisis. It's not manufactured at all. It's real. And Chip just talked about it. And anyone who has watched the whole caravan phenomenon over the last several months how that's unfolded knows this is a crisis. So let's deal with the crisis.

And step one in dealing with something of this magnitude is a border security wall. And that's what this is about. If the Democrats can get past this position they've taken, which is they're more concerned about stopping the president than they are with helping the country, we can get to a solution and address the terrible things that are going. on there. If not, I think we're in this shutdown for a while. Yeah, I'm a physician, so I talk in those kind of analogies, you know. It's as if there's an arterial bleed and the Democrats want to fix a scratch on someone's forehead. I mean, this is a major crisis. I've treated heroin overdoses. I have treated people who are addicts of heroin. We now know 90% of the heroin coming into this

country is coming across the southern border. 300 Americans are dying every. week. This is, it's insane. And their suggestion that, oh, this is what comes through the ports of entry. We don't need a wall. What about the heroin coming into the country we don't know about? Yeah, this is what we seized at the ports of entry. But goodness, I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon to figure out that the other poorest parts of the border, more heroin is coming across the border. So, you know, we have a cure. It's a wall. They've been shown to work elsewhere. I mean, if I had a cure in medicine that fixed it 90% of the time, which, you know, that's what they're saying about the wall. If I didn't give that to my patient, I wouldn't

have a medical license. I mean, it's time to act. And I might just add one point on that. Go look at the southern border in California, right? When we talk about the 80s and the 90s, before they started building the triple layer fence along the southern border, there were upwards of over 600,000 arrests annually down on the border. Now that number is closer to 30,000. And that's what we see. It works. And then I saw somebody make an argument in the Senate Judiciary Committee a number years ago. It doesn't work. They're now going to Arizona and New Mexico and Texas. They undermine their own argument, right? And what we're going to see is like today, right now today, the little girl is going to get snapped up by the cartels and sold into the sex trafficking trade because we refuse to do our job.

Today, there are trees along the border that are known as rape trees because of the abuses that take place. And you know who first talked about these rape trees? Tom Coburn on the floor of the Senate a decade ago. It's time to do our job. I want to ask Politico has a headline today saying that the freshman Democrats are starting to feel the heat as the shutdown drags on. We saw the president tweet today that Republicans in the House and the Senate are standing united. What can you tell our viewers, our listeners about the dynamics here inside the Capitol when you're talking to some of your fellow Republicans? The headline's right.

I mean, you know, you think about Joe Cunningham, who's in Mark Sanford's seat, you think about Ben McAdams who won Mia Love's district. You think about the new Congresswoman from that district, Bradst District Spanberger, from that district, the Congresswoman from Steve Russell's district in Oklahoma City. I think folks in Oklahoma probably won a border security wall built. So I do think the headline is accurate. Our side is holding strong. We've seen that on the appropriation votes, just a handful of Republicans that voted with the Democrats. But we had, I think, yesterday on the motion to recommit, motion that the minority party gets to make

before the passage of the majority party's bill, I think we had eight Democrats come over and vote with us yesterday. So I do think we're starting to see that happen. Of course, most of the press wants to talk about it from the other direction, but the real story is the one that Politico had in their headline today. Congressman Jordan, we have a question from Ohio, from a reporter there, Jessica Wareman of the Columbus Dispatch, who asks you, says the president is increasingly indicating that he'll declare a national emergency

to pay for the wall. You indicated on Fox News that you wanted this done through an appropriation. Are you concerned about the possibility of funds being drawn from military construction projects, such as the one at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base? And are you also concerned about the precedent, it might say? No, what I'm concerned about is not building a border security wall. What I'm concerned about is all the things that Chip and Dr. Green have talked about that are so important we address. and step one is a border security wall. So that's what I'm mostly concerned about. I think we should do it legislatively.

I think we should actually appropriate the dollars for a border security wall. But I do think it's an emergency. And if the president declares that, then we'll go from there. But I think the best approach is legislatively because if he goes the emergency route, I'm convinced it's going to wind up in court. I think we all are. And that just delays what we all know needs to get done. I think one of the things I'd like to add to that is, you know,

there is some concern out there that we would be giving executive branch power if he did do some kind of a national emergency. That authority is already there. It's in the Act from 76. And so I just want the conservatives that are out there to know that we are not, supporting that is not granting the executive branch more power. The authority is already there. It's also important to note that Congress has authorized the construction of a fence for the better part of over two decades. multiple times with bipartisan support, including the support of Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. And so it's important to recognize that we've spoken as a body, is the Article I body, that it should be built. It has been appropriated in the past. We need more appropriation now.

We need appropriation not just for the fence, but for these other things, including the humanitarian efforts, including the judges, immigration judges. Why? Because our asylum laws are being abused. Why? Because judges are making stuff up that isn't exactly following our law. laws in our Constitution. So what we need to do is do the job, hire the right people, figure out how to get the problem fixed, just like the American people want us to do. Congressman Roy and Congressman Green, you've been here just about a week. Can you share with our audience your path

to Congress and what your priorities are here as you get started? Mr. President? Well, my path to Congress was just, you know, I had an experience. The President nominated me to be the Secretary of the Army and I ran into some folks who didn't want a conservative in that position. So my vote got blocked on the Senate side, and it infuriated me and frustrated me and showed me a little bit about what's going on in Washington, D.C., so it put a fire in my gut. When Marshall Blackburn decided to run for the U.S. Senate, it opened up a seat, and we jumped in, ran unopposed in the Republican primary, which was pretty awesome, and beat the Democrat by 35 points. So we're excited to be here and looking forward to doing the things that we told our constituents we were going to do,

and that is, you know, constrain the size of government, decrease the spending, help stop this debt crisis that's going on. You know, immigration and border security, health care. You know, I run a health care company. I'm a physician and I'm a cancer survivor. So I get it on both sides of the stethoscope. And I think I have some ideas to contribute to that debate. So excited to be here and thanks for the question. Congressman.

Well, I'm here for similar reasons as my friend from Tennessee. I want to secure the border. I want health care freedom for all Americans. I want to make sure we balance the budget. I want our men and women to have a clear mission, the tools they need, and the care when they get home, and I want Washington to get out of the way of everything else. And that's what the people of Texas 21 want, and that's why I ran. And what drives me is that people know, in conservative circles, know that I work for Senator Cruz as chief of staff,

have some experience on the hill. I escaped. Went back to Texas. It was a federal prosecutor. was the first assistant attorney general. But when Congressman Smith announced, I decided to join a crowded field of 17 other candidates and jump in and got through the primary

with the help of a lot of good friends and including Jim and others. And, you know, like Congressman Green, I'm a cancer survivor seven years ago. I was diagnosed with the Hodgkin lymphoma when I had a three-month-old daughter and a two-year-old son. And when I got through the other end of that, cancer-free, thanks to pharmaceutical medicine

and some great doctors, I decided to want to recommit my life to public service and fight for health care freedom and to make sure that we preserve the greatest country the world has ever known. Well, Congressman, thank you for your service. Yes. Thanks. Congressman Jordan, you also are starting a new position with his Congress, serving as the top Republican on the Oversight and Government Reform Committee. We've heard a lot about Democrats saying that they're going to investigate the Trump administration. What can you tell us about your new position as ranking member and what you have planned? Well, we in the legislative branch have a

constitutional duty to provide oversight of the executive branch and to do that in a fair, objective way and in a way that makes sure that agencies are spending taxpayer dollars in as efficient and thorough way as they can. But this is the committee that does a lot of investigations. I mean, I think Chairman Cummings has talked about 51 different letters he just sent a few weeks ago. He wanted to issue 54 subpoenas this past Congress. Those are going to start flying, I think, here pretty soon. Nattler's talked about 80 different investigations he and the Democrats want to do. So our goal is real simple, the truth, to pursue the truth, to do it in a fair, systematic, step-by-step approach in every one of these investigations. And that's how I think

our committee, the Republican side of our committee, will operate. One of the things that's been the news this week is Rod Rosenstein, the Department of Justice, announcing that he's probably going to be leaving. Soon, what are your thoughts on the information that you're still hoping to get from him? Yeah. Just because he's leaving doesn't mean he shouldn't come in front of Congress, be under oath and answer our questions. Never forget what's alleged by the New York Times and other mainstream publications what this guy did. He talked to subordinates about wearing a wire to record the president of the United States and talked about overthrowing the president via the 25th Amendment. That is unbelievable. And we had in an interview, in a deposition, James Baker,

former Chief Counsel at the FBI, say that he believes Rod Rosenstein was serious with both of those allegations. Both of those allegations made about what Mr. Rosenstein said to subordinates at the Justice Department. So the idea that he hasn't been in front of Congress, and this all broke three and a half months ago, is unbelievable. He should have been in front of us a long time ago. Congressman Meadows, Congressman Gates and Mike, we've been pushing for it. We sent a letter yesterday. We think Chairman Cummings should bring Mr. Rosenstein in so we can ask him the questions and get to the bottom of what really took place in that meeting. And was he contemplating those specific things?

So we'll see. I think it's important that we talked to him and a whole bunch of other folks. When you think about what the FBI did in 2016 and 2017, it's as wrong as it gets and should not happen in this country. And there's a lot more we have to learn about what took place there. Congressman, you both mentioned the size of government, our national debt. is approaching $22 trillion. What can we do to get things under control here in Washington? Well, I think, you know, it's not even considered crazy anymore to say we need to get rid of the Department of Education.

I mean, we don't need a Department of Education at the federal level. The Constitution is pretty clear. That's a local responsibility, and, you know, we need to do it. It's time. I think you just approach it like every American has to approach it in every state and city. that has to balance their budget under statutes or constitutions. We bring in about $3.5 trillion. All of the tax changes in the world isn't going to adjust that a whole heck of a lot.

Even a 70% tax proposal, which we've heard recently, we'd only bring in another $65 or $70 billion on a static analysis, assuming people on hide their money and so forth, which is obviously not true. Point is, we bring in about $3.5 trillion. What do you do? How much do we need to defend the United States of America and to secure our borders? Take that out. What's left?

What do we need to do to honor our commitments to people on Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security that we know that they need and that are relying on it. Okay, take that out. What's left? Now get busy doing the core constitutional functions of government and do that over five years. And by the way, when we do budgeting, don't balance budgets in year five or year 10 or beyond those 10-year windows. That's what they do here all the time. Balance the budget, straight line appropriate to it and get busy doing the job the American people want us to do.

And by the way, when they run away from the debt ceiling, which they already did, the Democrats already back. away in our rules package trying to make it easier to lift the debt ceiling without having to vote on it. When we get to the debt ceiling, we should look at ourselves in the mirror and decide we don't want to go campaign on a balanced budget amendment so we can feel good on ourselves about saying we need to balance the budget. Let's use the debt ceiling and let's decide whether we're going to lift the debt ceiling without fundamentally altering spending in Washington. Last month, a federal district judge in Texas ruled that Obamacare was unconstitutional. Of course, Republicans have been trying, talking for years about repealing it. I know all of you

have strong feelings on that topic. What would you like to see happen when it comes to health care and how can conservatives reclaim the mantle on that issue? Dr. Hoccur? Sure. You know, the problems with health care are multifactorial, but I think probably the most fundamental issue is the incentives are reversed. People are not incentivized to shop for price and they're not incentivized to save because if your co-pays $50 here, $50 here or $50 there. I mean, you just don't care. You're going to do what's most convenient, and I understand that.

That makes sense. We have to have a system that incentivizes people to shop. I mean, you go to your doctor and ask him, what's the price of a knee, you know, a joint, you know, yeah, whatever you're doing with the joint. If you're going to fix it, he doesn't know the price. And that's tragic. Inflation has grown at twice the rate of the rest of the economy because price is hidden. So, you know, I'm looking at trying to work with folks to come up with a plan that gives an incentive, and we've got some ideas that will be forthcoming, but it has to incentivize the person to shop.

And that's really the key. If we don't get there, I mean, you can do portability, you can do all these other ideas, which are good ideas. I'm not saying, we ought to be able to compete across state lines, right? but if the incentives are not fixed, it's going to continue to spend. I mean, it is. My colleague's 100% right. We, Republicans, rightly talk about how Obamacare is destroying our health care system, but it was already broken before Obamacare.

I agree. And it was broken because of so many government regulations, so many programs, so many items that were destroying the market. I love it when I hear the left talk about the Wild Wild West of the free market health care not working. We haven't had the wild-law West of free market health care in decades. We've got to get back to allowing competition to be able to drive down prices. We need direct physician, direct primary care, so you go to your doctor. You pick the care that you want and know what it costs.

We need to expand health sharing organizations so you can share costs across multiple parties. We need to make it easier to have catastrophic and insurance that you take with you from job to job by fixing the code to do that. And we need to stop having insurance company run health care. We always run around from government run health care. health care, but all we're doing is basically reinforcing insurance company run health care. Why do you want some 25-year-old in Omaha that you call up from, you know, insurance company telling you what your health care is going to be, rather than walking down to your doctor, him telling you what it's going to be or she telling you what it's going to be, and then you

get to know what the price is and you pay for it. And if you can't, figure out how to cost share that, figure out how to have catastrophic insurance when you get diagnosed with something like cancer. All of that is possible in the greatest country in the world. and we need to stop letting the Democrats own this issue and being defensive about preexisting conditions. Because the preexisting conditions mandate is a bug, not a feature. And we need to stop considering it as a feature. If I could jump in there and just say, there are areas where we have a free market right now.

You look at something like LASIC eye surgery. The third-party payers don't pay for it. When it came out, it was thousands of dollars in I. I saw an ad the other day for a couple of hundred bucks an eye. And the technology has done this, while the price has done. this and the ophthalmologists are doing just fine the market sets the price it's it's cheaper for everybody one of the things i like to ask people is you know take a guess on i ran a health care company that that was emergency medicine care in in errs and i would ask people take a guess on

what i collected per patient not what was billed but what we actually collected and it was about 130 bucks a patient imagine if everybody paid their bill there was no cost shifting there was no government setting the price below that mark so we had to cost shift going to the yard cost you about 130 bucks and by the way we haven't talked about pharmaceuticals or drug costs and the vast majority of health care revolves around medicines and there are ways to drive down the cost of health care safe harbor provisions for the you know anti-kickback provisions and other ways to drive down costs we just got to get busy doing it well the FDA is the big is the big problem there that that whole pipeline to get drugs through for the companies is costing them billions of dollars and then they have to

around and spread that over. Let's say there's 10,000 people who have that disease. I mean, that costs a ton of money. So I understand it. It's just government getting in the way. I want to close with some questions that we're receiving on immigration. And I just begin with this one. You know, there is some chatter that Republicans are offering, are willing to accept some progressive priorities. This person puts it like DACA and Amnesty in order to secure wall funding. Do you feel that Republicans will be united in holding the line. And then the second question related to the topic of border security is, what's the most persuasive case that the president and conservatives can be making to shift public opinion when it comes to the wall?

Well, the first question is we're not going to, we've tried that before. I mean, the American people are not going to, oh, we promise if you, if we just get amnesty now, we promise we'll build the wall and secure the border later. American people are like, we ain't buying that. They've seen that play before. So that is not going to happen. We are, I know we're committed to doing the right thing, which is border security wall first. Then we'll talk about the other issues.

And the biggest other issue is what Chip mentioned before, reforming our asylum laws. I mean, that's what's driving this whole, the incentivizing for this caravan is the poor asylum laws we have. So that's how we have to, that's where we have to focus. Border security wall first. deal with the asylum laws, then we can deal with the DACA situation once we've done what Americans know needs to happen. I was the first assistant attorney general when we were litigating DAPA in the Fifth Circuit where we won and the Supreme Court upheld declaring that the president's actions was an

unconstitutional executive overreach. It was. That is what we need to remember when we're talking about the DACA class. We need to focus like a laser on securing the border. That's what the American people demand. That is what we need to focus on right now. Let's not take our off of making sure we end the crisis, protect lives, protect American citizens, protect the immigrants who want to come here, create a system that works, secure the border, use fencing, which has worked since the dawn of time, and anybody who says it doesn't work is absolutely blowing smoke. Talk about tunnels, talk about ladders. Fencing is a way to mitigate the flow of traffic coming across any stretch of land. We all know that. Do it. Put up the fences, secure the border,

prove that we're serious about enforcing sovereignty and protecting lives. Then we can talk about the other problems we need to address. Final word, Congressman? I was just going to say, reiterate what I said earlier, amnesty and DACA and all that. That's the scratch on the forehead. It needs to be taken care of at some point. But we have an arterial bleed at the border, and it's time to put the turniquet on. Well, we want to thank those of you who are able to join us today for the conversation.

We will be back. This is a monthly conversation that we do have. Again, you can follow the action at hashtag CWC-116. I would like to thank Congressman Mark Green of Tennessee, Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio, and Congressman Chip Roy of Texas for their participation today. We look forward to joining you again soon. Want to get up to speed about the Supreme Court? Then subscribe to SCOTUS 101,

a podcast about everything that's happening at the Supreme Court and what the justices are up to. And we'll leave it there for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal podcast brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or SoundCloud, and please leave us a review or a rating on iTunes

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