The Daily Signal - #381: The War on Christians Speaking Out

Episode Date: January 23, 2019

In the past couple of weeks, Karen Pence has been attacked for teaching at a Christian school, a group of Catholic school teen boys at the March for Life have been smeared as racists, and Sen. Mazie Hirono, D-Hawaii, tied Catholic organization Knights of Columbus to the "alt-right." The Heritage Foundation's Monica Burke joins us to discuss how it's becoming harder for Christians to speak out freely.We also cover these stories:•The Supreme Court is allowing President Trump’s transgender military policy to go into effect.•For the first time in 9 years, the Supreme Court will hear a major gun case.•Planned Parenthood released its annual data, which showed a clear uptick in abortions from the previous year, jumping from about 321,000 to 332,000.The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, January 23rd. I'm Kate Trinco. And I'm Daniel Davis. Well, the attacks on the Second Lady continue as Lady Gaga calls out Karen Pence for teaching at a Christian school. We'll unpack what's up with all of the anti-Christian school sentiment, as well as Senator Maisie Hirono's continued attacks on the Knights of Columbus. Monica Burke, one of our most frequent contributors on religion and politics, will join

us to discuss. But first, we'll cover a few of the top headlines. The Supreme Court is allowing President Trump's transgender military policy to go into effect, overturning an injunction from a lower court that had forbidden the Trump administration from implementing the change, which was proposed in 2017. Then Defense Secretary James Mattis had proposed allowing current transgender troops to remain in service, but not allowing new recruits who suffered from gender dysphoria to join. At the time, Heritage's Tom Spore, a retired lieutenant general, wrote,

The Pentagon's transgender policy is no different from its treatment of hundreds of other medically disqualifying conditions, such as bipolar disorder, asthma, or diabetes. These qualifications exist for two reasons to ensure individuals are able to perform at the level expected and to prevent harm to higher risk individuals, end quote. In 2016, the Obama administration made a change that allowed transgender men and women to serve in the military. Well, for the first time in nearly a decade, the Supreme Court will hear a major gun case. The court has accepted a challenge to a New York City law that bans residents from carrying a licensed, locked, and unloaded gun outside city limits. The case is being brought by New York's NRA chapter and three residents of New York who say that the law impedes their ability to take their guns out to a shooting range or to their second home. The case will be argued in October. President Trump weighed in on the Covington High School case following a tumultuous news cycle

where the students were first accused of a racist response to a Native American activist at the Lincoln Memorial and then were exonerated by more extensive footage. Trump tweeted Tuesday referring to one of the students, Nick Sandman and the students of Covington have become symbols of fake news and how evil it can be. Meanwhile, Covington was closed Tuesday with Principal Robert Ruffington. saying, after meeting with local authorities, we have made the decision to cancel school and be closed on Tuesday, January 22nd, in order to ensure the safety of our students, faculty, and staff. Meanwhile, Native American activist Nathan Phillips, who first approached the students, is now saying he wants to meet with them to discuss racism. Well, another year, another one-third million abortions committed by Plant Parenthood.

The abortion giant released its annual data over the weekend, which showed. a clear uptick in abortions from the past year, jumping from about 321,000 up to 332,000. Plant Parenthood also got a large boosted cash from U.S. taxpayers, a boost of $20 million for a total of $563 million, all of it appropriated by a Republican Congress. And while the number of abortions surged, almost every other area of expense declined. Controception, cancer screenings, and prevention services all went down in the past year. That trend goes to highlight a point that Planned Parenthood's president made just a few weeks ago that abortion is the core mission of Planned Parenthood.

The Academy Awards nominations are out, and as usual, critics' darlings, not crowd favorites, dominated the categories. The top two films with 10 nominations a piece are Roma, a Netflix movie shot in black and white, and The Favorite, a historical movie centered on a lesbian love triangle. Other movies that were nominated for Best Picture include Black Panther, Black Klansman, Bohemian Rhapsody, Green Book, A Star is Born, and Vice. Up next, we'll talk to Monica Burke to unpack some of the recent controversies involving the role of religion in America. Are you looking for quick conservative policy solutions to current issues? Sign up for Heritage's weekly newsletter, The Agenda.

Each Tuesday in the Agenda, you will learn what issues. Heritage Scholars on Capitol Hill are working on, what position conservatives are taking, and links to our in-depth research. The agenda also provides information on important events happening here at Heritage that you can watch online, as well as media interviews from our experts. Sign up for the agenda on heritage.org today. So this weekend, pop star and actress Lady Gaga decided to criticize the Pence's over Karen Pence's decision to teach at a Christian school. Here's what she said at a show in Las Vegas.

And to Mike Pence, who thinks it's acceptable that his wife work at a school that bans LGBTQ. You are discriminated against Christianity. You are the worst representation of what it means to be a Christian of Christianity, is that we bear no prejudice, and everybody is welcome. Ah, Lady Gaga. Well, joining us to discuss is Monica Burke, a research assistant at the DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society. at the Heritage Foundation.

Monica, thanks for being on. Thanks for having me. So what do you think? Is it fair play for Lady Gaga to criticize Karen Pence for this? Or what should we know about the situation? Well, there are a few things. I hope your listeners will know by the end of this conversation. The first item is just to correct the record of what Lady Gaga said,

which is she basically said that the school bans LGBTQ youth, which is just patently false. If you take a look at the school's statement of faith, basically anybody and everybody is allowed to attend the school, you just have to agree to abide by the code of conduct. And they have expectations about chastity within and outside of marriage, which many Christian denominations believe. And so nobody is categorically barred from attending this school. And we've seen people make these kind of accusations before in the context of education and the context of business and other contexts. So I think now it's important that we set the record straight and remind the public that just because we have different ideas about marriage, we have different ideas about sexuality, that does not mean that those who have these traditional views of sexuality

are somehow bigoted against anyone or harbor any kind of animus towards them. But the other thing that I'd like to point out is that I can't say that I was surprised that Lady Gaga said what she said. And as I was thinking about what she said and reading a lot of the other media coverage of this incident, I came across an op-ed that alluded to something that Justice Alito actually wrote in Obergefel v. Hodges, which of course was the case that implemented same-sex marriage across all 50 states. And so he pointed out that towards the end of the opinion of those arguing that same-sex marriage should be legal, he made the point that their reasoning turned towards. saying that those who oppose same-sex marriage, that their rights of conscience would be protected, arguing that they have nothing to fear, that this is a live-and-let-live decision.

And this is what Alito said. He said, we will soon see whether this proves to be true. I assume that those who cling to old beliefs will be able to whisper their thoughts in the recesses of their homes. But if they repeat those views in public, they will risk being labeled as bigots

and treated as such by governments, employers, and schools. and Karen Pence is just the latest example of how that prediction has come to pass in the handful of years since that decision. And so we need to set the record straight and make the important distinction that having a difference of opinion about sexuality about marriage is not the same thing as being bigoted towards anyone. Yeah, one of the issues that's so core to this particular case, I think, is the idea that the school bans a certain class of people, right?

And again, that's just kind of confusing a certain. behavior with with someone's like identity and say it's almost like saying you know if you're engaged in premarital sex with the opposite sex then you're not allowed so no straight people right I mean it's pretty much the same thing I just I guess I feel like that is that is a big misnomer that is causing a lot of this misunderstanding I think a lot of these misunderstandings boil down to I think what you're getting at Daniel which is this conflation between identity and conduct and for example example, in places where we've seen sexual orientation and gender identity elevated an anti-discrimination

law, to have the government say explicitly you cannot discriminate on this basis has led to tons of poor legal outcomes precisely because the law is not making that distinction between someone's core identity and their conduct, how they behave. And when it comes to our sexuality, it is irreducibly bound up in what decisions we choose to make, what moral decisions we choose to make. And I think that I imagine this school, like many other schools, maintain that distinction and would argue simply because you have this identity or these attractions or inclinations. That is not a disqualifying factor in inclusion in our community in any way, shape, or form. However, we expect everyone to adhere to this code of conduct. Code of conduct isn't even the best phrase to get at it to adhere to this framework of morality, this vision.

of the good life. And I think what we don't talk about enough is the fact that the Christians who are upholding this traditional view of marriage preach chastity for everyone. And that's the same for married people. It's the same for unmarried people. It's the same regardless of who you're attracted to. And we need to restore that perspective to the dialogue without decrying anyone as bigots weaponizing those labels is simply wrong. Right. And so we actually discussed this on the podcast last week. And I'm really surprised it's still in the news. And I think, you know, Lady Gaga, of course, is, you know, a big name.

She's in a movie that was nominated for a bunch of Oscars, you know, huge pop star. I think it's interesting that we're still focused on it in the sense of, like, they won't let it go. You know, and I keep thinking on it. And it's like Karen Pence is not saying that public schools should be like this. She's not calling for National Christian School Week. she's literally in her role as a private citizen teaching at a school. And as far as I know, saying nothing publicly about it. I mean, I think Mike Pence defended his wife.

But even that, like, this is not like them trying to make something a policy. So it's very concerning that there's this element of, I think it's hard to read it as anything besides trying to intimidate people. It's trying to say to the next person, if you are married to a politician and you teach at a Christian school, this might be weaponized against you. And so, who knows, maybe another wife, another husband will look at this and say, I don't want to do this. I don't want my spouse to be dragged through all this. And to me it relates to, you know, the Covington case, which is exploding in the sense of that's the case. You know, we mentioned the headlines, the high school boys who were accused of racist behavior. And later video footage that emerged sort of showed it as just an awkward, weird encounter.

And it's very ambiguous what they did. And I would not say racist at all, at least from what I'm able to see on the video. But the reason I bring that up is they were there for the March for Life. That's mentioned in all the coverage. A lot of high schoolers go to the March for Life. A lot of college students go. Rachel Del Judas, of course, was on last week talking about how she in college in high school went. And I think they're trying to make it that people are afraid to come to the march.

That, you know, maybe high school chaperones and college chaperons are going, everyone is blaming the chaperones. I don't want these kids to lose their ability to get a job later in life. And now people are going around trying to catch them in. viral videos that they're ill-equipped to deal with. So this was a long rant for me, but do you think that there's real concern here that Christians are going to feel more and more afraid to express their views? Absolutely. I think we're observing it left and right, and it's just become, now I think something. So commonplace that we almost don't think about it and can't remember a time

where it wasn't the case. And it's easy to forget. I mean, Barack Obama was traditional on marriage until very recently. And there's been a major sea change that I think happened faster than anyone could have predicted. Oh, yeah. I remember watching a video. You can go to YouTube and check out, you know, I saw one that was sort of several videos put together from like 2000 when Bush ran for president and he was explaining his view on the issue.

And then up to like 2004, 2008, 2012, Obama and Joe Biden, all the Democrats actually saying words that now they would repudiate as bigoted. And they'll, of course, claim that they've evolved on the issue. And, you know, we're not in a position to judge whether or not that sincere. But I think, Kate, to bring it back, you're absolutely right. I think that there are those out there who want people to be afraid to be stuck to only being able to whisper those thoughts on the recesses of their own homes. And I think that that, first of all, violates the principles under which,

same-sex marriage was sort of sold to the public, which is, which was an argument for live and let live. And I think of that principle is really going to have any weight or any clout. It needs to hold true moving into the future for those who have these traditional views, whether it be about life or marriage or religious liberty. And specifically with the March for Life, I mean, now it's my turn to go in a long rant. I saw somebody, I saw a number of hot takes saying that the fact that these men were there in the first place, came from a place of bigotry of trying to control women's bodies. And first off, I immediately thought of the overwhelming female presence at the March for Life as a pro-life woman myself.

I'm like, so I guess I'm bigoted against myself. You're trying to control your own body. How good. Yeah. And that's why we can't consider people just in these broad general groups. Individual people are individual people with their own stories, histories, and points of view. And they had every right to exercise their protest, just as everyone who went to the women's march had the right to exercise theirs. And so if it's going to be live and let live, then we need to cease and desist these constant character assassinations of people who have traditional values.

Well, it's issues like this that make you so grateful for the First Amendment because it's always people who are in the minority who need the First Amendment. It's never for the majority. Well, a similar issue was with the Knights of Columbus, which you have a personal attachment to, Monica. up, but we're going to come to that right after this. Want to get up to speed about the Supreme Court? Then subscribe to SCOTUS 101, a podcast about everything that's happening at the Supreme Court and what the justices are up to. Well, Maisie Hirono, the Democratic Senator from Hawaii, is at it again, doubling down

against the Knights of Columbus. Last week, she criticized Senator Ben Sasse for introducing a resolution to condemn what she had to say about the Knights of Columbus, which passed without objection in the Senate. And her response was to call him and the Knights of Columbus the alt-right. Curious comparison there. Monica, you're a longtime admirer of the Knights of Columbus, though not one yourself because you are a woman. This is true.

But tell us, you know, where is this coming from? And clearly it seems to me like she probably had a traumatic experience with someone who was a Knights of Columbus as a child. Oh, my gosh. Actually knowing what the Knights of Columbus do doesn't make any sense that she would say this, give us the actual truth. Of course. So I have to admit when I first, so when I, the initial questioning that Herono raised the question of whether the Knights of Columbus was an extremist group was, I found extremely disheartening and I was very dismayed. But honestly, her, her follow-up comment

to Senator Sasse's resolution actually made me laugh out loud. For two reasons. The first is purely historical, which is she's classifying them as an alt-right organization. When the Knights of Columbus were locked in conflict with the KKK, you can go to their website and read about it. I mean, the KKK hated them. And they found themselves in opposite sides on the Supreme Court even. And so I just thought the idea that the Knights of Columbus are somehow an alt-right extremist group was just patently false and quite frankly ridiculous. And then, you know, it's all white guys who dress up and weird hats. It is not all white guys.

In my parents it was almost all Filipinos. Well, there you go. There you go. It's a worldwide organization, right? Exactly. Yeah. Anyway, your second point, sorry. Yeah, my second point is I started laughing because of personal anecdotes.

I know a number of people who, when they heard this story, they're like, wait, the night's of Columbus. You mean the guys who run all the pancake breakfast? And this is where I went from laughing to actually being angry because my experience with the Knights of Columbus at my parish has been an extremely positive experience. And you want to talk about the antidote to toxic masculinity is these guys. These men, many of them are fathers, oftentimes the fathers of childhood friends of mine and their siblings. Some of them are bachelors.

They just serve the community. And when Heronoh took a hit at the Knights of Columbus, I'm like, you want to know the last time I interacted with the Knights of Columbus? it was on Thanksgiving. And they and their families spent the entire morning into the afternoon cooking a Thanksgiving dinner that over 100 people from the community, not all of them Catholic, came and received a free meal. And then for all of those who could not get themselves to the breakfast, we took meals and drove them to the homebound. And so I'm like, oh, yes, what an oppressive organization that has, you know, it's clearly. clearly the divisive members of the alt, right? I just, I thought it to be so ridiculous and so personally harmful to the men I know who have

done nothing but served their community for years. So I would not take seriously. There's just no effort of thought given by her to actually think about who these people are, right? It's just, it just feels like hate. And how many people, you know, seeing the headlines are going to whip out their phones and use them to be well-informed and look up, you know, is that true? What's the history of the Knights of Columbus? I mean, that takes time and buy-in, and we're all trying to process so many stories at once because the news cycle is so fast in the digital age. And you can get away with

calumnies and lies. You can say factually false things, and no one will, if they, no one will question them simply because they don't have the time and the news cycle has moved on. And it's the people that you smear that have to live with the repercussions. And I just think that's so unbefitting a member of Congress or any citizen, really. Right. I mean, it is, it is a smear. I mean, alt-right suggests that she's implying that they're racist, you know, and the way she phrased that question, it implied that they were all right. And yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, similar to you. My dad wasn't in the nights, but, you know, I was thinking back on what my experience experiences with them have been over the years. And it's like, I think I once got a free cup of coffee at a pancake breakfast. I've gone to a retreat house they own. I think they donated the rosary that was on the pillow. Like, I mean, this is pretty, they help Christians in Iraq. They help hurricane victims. I mean, this is fairly generic stuff. And, you know, in some ways, the chilling thing about this is the implication is what she disagrees with the knights on is the stuff that presumably Senator Herono disagrees with the Catholic Church on.

And is she saying that no Catholic can be a judge, which I found was interesting because there have been, I believe, up to six Catholic justices on the Supreme Court at any given time. And you know who's Catholic? I didn't. Anthony Kennedy is a Catholic. So clearly Catholics can rule on more than one side of issues. Also Sotomayor. Sotomayor is Catholic. That's a good point. I did not know that. And Nancy Pelosi.

Yeah, Nancy Pelosi. We won't go down the police. But I mean, I was focusing on judges in particular because I think it is such a chilling thing and such an anti-Catholic. And I think ultimately, I mean, the issue she's attacking Catholics on extended many Christian denominations. It would not just be the Catholics. This is not over Rome or any of that. Right. The papacy.

Right. It has nothing to do with. Threatening American democracy. Pope Francis. Yeah. And I think that is very concerned. I don't think it's getting enough attention from non-conservative sites. And it's alarming.

I mean, to say that a Catholic can't be a fair judge, that's really insane. It is. On the one hand, you shouldn't be surprised, but I still am surprised because this was historically a topic of debate. And if you look at the history of the Knights of Columbus, the kinds of anti-Catholicism they faced was violent anti-Catholicism. And so anything resembling that kind of bigotry against a religious sect strikes me is potentially very dangerous. And so right now, you know, it's all fun in games and wordplay right now and scoring political points and virtue signaling and all these other, you know, handy terms that we've come up with to describe how we do politics again in the digital age. But those words can eventually become actions. And so I don't think that we should, you know, let them.

this, let this pass us by without making comment and saying, you know, this kind of behavior, religious test for office, it remains unacceptable. Also, I'll just tack on in the end here. I think the funniest part for me was when she has been sass of being alt-right. Because if you know anything about controversies surrounding Ben Sass, it's that apparently he's a wimp and not alt-right at all, which is what they say about him. Well, I mean, that's all, like, it really different. I don't want you to find out right as.

But I don't think Heronan meant it in a neutral sense. I think she meant it is, yeah, racist, white supremacist, which is obviously toxic, and one would hope no senator would touch it. That's right. Well, we are going to leave it there for today. Monica, thanks for being back on and joining us. Thanks for having me. And thank you for listening to The Daily Signal podcast, brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce

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