The Daily Signal - #412: Penny Nance on Conservatism and Feminism

Episode Date: March 6, 2019

Should women be drafted? What should we do about the #MeToo movement? And how can we reach out to more women with the conservative message? Penny Nance of Concerned Women for America joins us to discuss. Plus: Another young adult book has been cancelled for not being woke enough.We also cover these stories:•Border agents are dealing with a massive surge in border crossings, the highest number in a decade. •“It is shameful that House Democrats won’t take a stronger stand against anti-Semitism in their conference," tweeted President Trump.•The Democratic National Committee announced Wednesday that it won’t allow Fox News to host one of its televised debates during the upcoming presidential primaryThe Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, March 7th. I'm Kate Tranko. And I'm Daniel Davis. Well, federal judges are putting pressure on Congress to decide whether women should be in the draft. Penny Nance, a leading conservative activist, rejects the idea that women should be drafted. And today, we'll bring you Kate's interview with Penny on the draft and other issues, including the Me Too movement, abortion, and what it means to be a conservative woman in 2019. Plus, critics go berserk over a gay novel because it apprits.

appropriates the wrong identities. And just a reminder that if you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe and please leave a five-star review on iTunes that helps us reach more listeners so that they can also listen to this podcast. And now we're going to have our headlines. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirsten Nielsen testified Wednesday in a congressional hearing about the state of the crisis at the border. The projections are dire. The agency is now on track to apprehend more. migrants crossing illegally in the first six months of this fiscal year than the entirety of FY17 and at the current pace we are on track to encounter close to one million illegal aliens at our southern border this year she also addressed

the issue of families being separated at the border ice is not stopping families from being represented there are three reunited reunited there are three instances in long-standing practice, which CBP, not ICE, encounters a family unit presenting as a family unit, where separation may be necessary. The first one is if the adult accompanying that child is not a parent or legal guardian. The second, if there is a risk to the child, and the third is if the parent otherwise needs to go to a custodial prosecutorial setting. Longstanding process, the numbers are not high, happy to bring up. provide them with you, but that is what CBP does at the border for the protection of the child.

One representative, Benny Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi, asked Nielsen if the U.S. was putting children in cages while detaining them. For the record, Madam Secretary, are we still using cages for children? Sir, we don't use cages for children. In the border facilities that you've been to, they were not made to detain children. As the children are processed through, they are in the... subparts of those facilities. And border agents are now dealing with a massive surge in border crossings, the highest number

in a decade. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan said, quote, the system is beyond capacity and remains at the breaking point. According to new government data announced on Tuesday, in the month of February, 76,000 migrants crossed the border illegally, nearly twice what the number was this time last year. That number amounts to roughly 2,200 new migrants each day. Mackalien said this is clearly both a border security and a humanitarian crisis. According to new figures released by the government, the trade deficit in 2018 grew by 10.4% to 891.3 billion. But while President Trump has focused

on the trade deficit, it's not clear that it's bad news for Americans who drove the deficit by buying. The Wall Street Journal reported, quote, overall U.S. imports grew 7.5% last year, driven in part by spending on consumer goods, industrial supplies, and capital goods. Americans stepped up imports from China, purchasing more TVs, auto parts, video games, and furniture. Well, Jack Phillips is on a winning streak. The Colorado Baker, who won last year at the Supreme Court, came out on top this week after being sued a second time by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. The commission had sued him for declining to bake a custom cake that would have violated his beliefs, a cake celebrating a gender transition. In return, Phillips filed suit

against the commission and sought damages, which is something he did not do in last year's case. But on Tuesday, the state's Attorney General, Phil Weiser, a Democrat, announced that the commission would be dropping the lawsuit and that Phillips would also drop his. Phillips said he was looking forward to serving his customers as he always has with love and respect. He also reiterated his position, which was at the core of his defense last year, in the same-sex wedding case. Quote, I have and will always serve everyone who comes into my shop. I simply can't celebrate events or express messages that conflict with my religious beliefs. Democrats were planning to have a vote on anti-Semitism in response to Democratic Representative Ilan Omar of Minnesota's latest use of an anti-Semitic trope.

But the Washington Post reported Wednesday that House Democrats are fighting amongst themselves about what to do. I think there's a big rise in anti-Semitism and racism, and that's a bigger conversation we need to be having, said Representative Cedric Richmond, a Democrat of Louisiana. But it starts at 1600 Pennsylvania. It doesn't start with one member out of 435 members of Congress. Trump tweeted Wednesday, it is shameful that House Democrats won't take. take a stronger stand against anti-Semitism in their conference. Anti-Semitism has fueled atrocities throughout history, and it's inconceivable they will not act to condemn it.

Well, Fox News is getting the cold shoulder from the Democratic Party. The DNC announced Wednesday that it won't allow Fox News to host one of its televised debates during the upcoming presidential primary. DNC chairman Tom Perez said that he had considered allowing Fox to host a debate, but changed his mind after the New Yorker published a story alleging deep ties between Fox and the White House's inner circle. He said he had concluded Fox News was, quote, not in a position to host a fair and neutral debate for our candidates. The alleged attacker of conservative activist Hayden Williams at University of California Berkeley, Zachary Greenberg, is now facing felony charges from Alameda County.

Williams lawyer, Harmeet Dillon, who we featured on the Daily Signal podcast yesterday, told Fox News, happy that the authorities seem to be taking this seriously, but we'll suspend judgment on how seriously until we see the resolution of this case. Greenberg is not a student at UC Berkeley, although we had attended classes there and worked as a volunteer in prior years. Well, up next, Kate's interview with a leading female conservative Penny Nance. Are you looking for quick conservative policy solutions to current issues? Sign up for Heritage's weekly newsletter, The Agenda. Each Tuesday in the agenda, you will learn what issues Heritage Scholars on Capitol Hill are working on,

what position conservatives are taking, and links to our in-depth research. The agenda also provides information on important events happening here at Heritage that you can watch online, as well as media interviews from our experts. Sign up for the agenda on heritage.org today. Okay, joining us from CPAC is Penny Nance, CEO and president of Concerned Women for America. Penny, thanks for being on with us. No, it's great always being with the daily signal, of course. Okay, so I want to start first off. We see more and more this idea in media that you can't be a woman and a conservative.

What's your response to that? Oh, there's so many things that fly through my mind in response to that. You know, the media, the mainstream media, loves to project that women are monolithic. And it's not new. It's not new. And that somehow we're this, you know, victimized group of people who cannot think for ourselves. You know, I think this country is pretty evenly split on the issue of the social issues, issues like life and others. And that is true for women as well. We're 51% of the population.

We receive more undergraduate degrees than men. We receive more law degrees and medical degrees. We own a third of small businesses in this country. We employ, you know, we, we millions of people and create trillions of dollars in revenue every year. We get to think for ourselves. And I would say the left gets to be wrong. But it is absolutely patently false, that a large number of American women are not conservative. We tend to be very conservative. Remember, 30 million women voted to elect Donald Trump president. So how do we reach more women with the conservative of message? I think we have to break through the bubble.

Unfortunately, not every woman watches Fox News nor well they. Many women won't even pick up a Wall Street Journal and read it. They tend to read, we as women tend to read more of our local or regional newspaper. We've got to really press into new media opportunities. We've got to hold accountable, and I'm using air quotes, you can't see me, women's magazines. I have just been appointed to the Women's Suffragist Centennial Commission, and that's a bipartisan commission of left and right. It's Kay James of Heritage and Barbara McColsky, and I sat yesterday next to Jennifer

for Newsom, Gavin Newsom's wife, who's a lovely human being, by the way. I really enjoyed meeting her. And they were talking about women's magazines covering this, and I said, I'm not going to be satisfied unless Kay James is on the cover of glamour magazine. That's quite a reach, right? But why aren't we insisting on it? Why aren't we insisting on our voices being heard? Why are we settling for what the crumbs that the left will throw us?

And I would say that not just in media, but also we need to speak up in our civil, organizations in our PTA meetings, in our, you know, our playgroups. We need to tell the truth about the issue of life, the intrinsic value of human life and why that's important to our culture. And what's happening today on the issue of infanticide? We need to talk about why it's important to have a strong defense and why we need a solid, economic system that allows for opportunity for everyone and why free market system is an advantage for women.

Whoever has the best idea is who wins in a free market economy and it's lifted up the standard of living for women all over the world. And while we are an exceptional nation, why women in this country have it better than women almost anywhere in the world. And by the way, the largest number of legal immigrants coming across our shores are women because they know. They know we have something special here. So let's be evangelist for what we believe. Okay.

So you brought up infanticide, and we've just seen what seems to be almost an unbelievable amount of extremism lately in abortion politics in 2019. What do you think is going on? I mean, are we witnessing a change where they're beginning to make the case for infanticide? No, it's not a change. It's what they've believed all along. They've just been amassed. I mean, in a really weird way, I'm thankful that we're finally having the conversation. This has been the position of Planned Parenthood, Hillary Clinton, and the left big abortion all along,

that abortion should be legal at any point, any reason, any number all paid for by the taxpayer. I've said this all along, and somehow they've been able to obfuscate and pretend otherwise. Well, the left over-celebrated in New York, and suddenly everyone noticed what happened. Kathy Tran told the truth about her bill in Virginia, and our governor, my governor in Virginia, said, told the truth that he thought, well, if a baby happens to survive her abortion and is lying on the table that she should be kept comfortable while the mother and the doctor, which the doctor in this case would be the abortionist, have a conversation about what to do. do next. That's Robert God. That's a Kermit Gossnail world.

So this isn't new actually. This has always been their belief and their position, but most people didn't know it because they were so good at hiding it. So you came out during the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation fight as being in favor of him, but

you also talked about your own experience with sexual assault. And how did you come to support Kavanaugh and also how do you think as conservative we should respond to, I almost want to say an outpouring of grief that's going on with me too. Like, what's the right way to respond to her? That is really the right way to say that. I was so saddened. And at the last day, the day of the cloture vote, I brought together.

We had hundreds of women on the hill lobbying. And I brought them together at the end after the vote in prayer for the women that we had met and we had seen. And you see. And you see, said exactly right, this outpouring of grief over the way that they had been treated, the things they had experienced. And we've got to remember that first. These were women speaking from very broken places. But it's our job to be clear-eyed about the rule of law. And the fact that, you know, sadly, if we didn't know this before, we've woken up to the fact that women and men are broken and you know you have you had the du lacrosse players and you had the uva scandal and you know even going back in history you know in literature to killing mockingbird

describes the issue that race has to play in some of this and so we have to be very clear in our believe that every woman has a right to share her story and I have my own story I you mentioned it I was I'm a victim of an attempted rape I was out on a running path while I was pregnant with my daughter who thankfully is here with me today at CPAC as a young woman and a complete stranger attempted to rape me and another stranger a woman stopped the assault from happening and it was traumatic and it was life-changing, and sometimes I still deal with the repercussions of that because there is hurt there.

I can't imagine what other women have gone through and how they survive it, but they do. But that doesn't mean that we don't recognize that everyone has a right to do process, that an unsubstantiated allegation can't be enough to destroy someone because people are broken. So we have to listen, we have to look into it thoughtfully and fully, and I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're a priest. I don't care if you're a pastor. I don't care if you're a politician. I do not care who you are.

If the FBI needs to be involved, as in I believe in the case in Virginia, with Justin Fairfax, or Brett Kavanaugh. The FBI looked into all of these, and then the day, we know that he was an innocent man. And so then there's the political aspect that we can't allow the left to make substantial allegations and destroy our nominees because they will. They will do that. Okay. So we recently had a judge rule that women should be part of the draft. For complicated legal reasons, this doesn't immediately mean that women will be drafted,

but you can sort of see where the trend is going. How do you feel about this? Well, you know, I'm so proud of our women, our patriots that have served. My son, by the way, is applied. We're waiting here back if he gets into West Point. I would love it if my daughter had wanted to do that. She chose to go to Liberty University, which shout out to Liberty, where I graduated from. We have many members who have been in the military or military wives or mothers,

and we support our military 100% and we are proud of our women warriors. I think there's a big difference, though, between giving women the liberty and the freedom to volunteer to fight, to volunteer to go into combat versus requiring them to go into combat. And that's really where this breaks down. Before John McCain died, he and I had a pretty strong conversation, shall we say, on this matter. and actually looking back

is actually a sweet memory because the end of it we like we disagree to disagree but it was pretty rough we were pretty nose to nose at that moment and because I said he was like well you know he said

women want to protect their nation I said of course they do and some of them don a uniform to do that but you cannot tell me that the women throughout history the women in World War II that went to work in the factories the women during the Vietnam-Korean conflict and all the women, you know, now that are at home,

keeping the home fires burning, raising their children while their husband is all fighting, is not serving their nation because they are. And so we, as women, can serve in a number of ways. If we choose to serve as warriors, we choose to serve, and I support that. But I don't support the idea that we're going to force women into frontline combat. I don't support that. Okay. You mentioned that you're on the committee, um, celebrating.

the 100th anniversary of suffragettes, along with Heritage's, K. Coles, James. What are some of the interesting things you're learning or getting to celebrate? I mean, it's incredible to me as a woman that 99 years ago would have been the first time I could have voted. Yeah, what we were talking about yesterday was kind of funny.

There was 14 states that never ratified the 19th Amendment. So you mean, like, technically? Yeah, so it's going to be a little, like, awkward, I think, for some of them. I said, hey, this is their chance to right the wrong. You know, it's really fantastic to me to get to be a part of recognizing the important history. And, you know, I'm a fan of it and love to talk about Susan B. Anthony and Lizzie Cattie Stanton and the early suffragists, who, by the way, were pro-life. They would not recognize the women's movement today. And so I really loved, and, you know, and many of them were joined by the abolition movement.

I mean, there was just a really great awakening going on in our country at that point. And then, you know, things started to change because of the issue of abortion, frankly. And there's a split among women. But I think I am excited as someone who loves history and enjoys history to, you know, sort of point out this moment, this unified moment. And in that room yesterday, it was my first meeting. It was a very unified feeling. And Kay James, as the chairman of the commission, does a great job of making sure all voices are heard and making sure we stay on point to recognize and to underscore and celebrate that history

as opposed to just, you know, getting off on tangents of politics that divide us. Maybe we can lead the way for the nation in some small way of what it looks like to have civil discussions and to work together on something that's important. Well, that would be great. Okay, Penny Nance, concerned women for America. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. It's great being here. Do conversations about the Supreme Court leave you scratching your head?

Then subscribe to SCOTUS 101, a podcast breaking down the cases, personalities, and gossip at the Supreme Court. Well, we've seen Hollywood actors get lambasted for agreeing to play roles that don't quite reflect their own self-identity, such as their sexual orientation or otherwise. But now, according to Slate, the critics are going after fiction authors. enter Kosovo Jackson. He worked as a sensitivity reader for major publishers, essentially what he would do is read manuscripts and flag the ones that were too insensitive to publish, but then he decided to write his own book,

and note here that Jackson is both black and gay. His book was called A Place for Wolves. It's a gay romance novel set in the 1990s Kosovo and the two main characters are American. While some reviewers got a hold of advanced copies of the book and they tore it to shreds, Their beef, Jackson was appropriating other identities that were not his own. One reviewer on Goodreads blasted the book for not being written by a Muslim, since that's the majority of religion in Kosovo,

for quote-unquote centering Americans in a foreign country and for making the villain an ethnic Albanian, among other things. Another commenter said, quote, are you able to confidently justify supporting this book despite all of the above, despite the harm it can and will do to real people, end quote. Another person had given a positive review, but after seeing all the negative reviews, went back and apologized to those that she had, quote, hurt with my review and promised to, quote, work harder. So, Kate, I know you're not exactly into this kind of novel,

but are we witnessing the end of fiction writing here? Yes. I mean, I think basically what we're saying is nothing is okay except memoirs. because we should note that this guy, he's actually pulled his book. It's not going to be published. I can't say that a book about a gay romance in 1990s, Kosovo, is one that I plan to read or purchase for others. But I do think, you know, this comes, this is the second young adult book we've seen pulled this year. Another one was written by a Chinese immigrant to the United States. She was also, it's extremely complex, but essentially people faulted her for her discussion of

oppression because she's not African-American. It didn't seem to matter that in Asia, there is their own oppression narrative, which doesn't have to do with the Civil War in American history. But I think it's really chilling and it's concerning. I think any good writer will be hesitant. You know, it's an old cliche for fiction writers, write what you know. You know, I dabble in fiction and I've never had the main character be a guy because I find that I don't really know. I mean, but it's not like I don't have guy characters when I write. It's not like, you know, Shakespeare among many, many others wasn't able to capture what it was like to be a woman. I mean, yes, fiction is about make-believe.

It's not memoir. Right. And I guess, you know, if you look back to literally every book that's been, every fiction in the book that's been written, every classic, there are differences between the author, their personal experiences and that of the main character. Certainly there are lots of similarities between them. Oftentimes they've been inspired by their own past to write about this other character. But sometimes there's differences. And my question is, where do you draw the line between what counts as your identity and what's just a random fact about you? So, like, you know, right now people are saying your gender, your ethnicity, your race, your sexual orientation, all of that stuff counts as your identity.

And you can't write from the perspective of other identities. But what about someone who's had XYZ experience in their life that might also. shape their identity in some way, but isn't as definitive a category. Like, can you write from their perspective too? Why do you have, why is that relevant? I mean, I think that obviously there's certain things that we don't want to do in terms of appropriating identity. I think it's very hurtful to wear blackface.

And I would say that's not an appropriate use. But like, that's an extreme example. But I think, you know, are there Asian or white authors who have written about black characters? Yes. And I think that that's something that, you know, the test is sort of in the book itself. If it's very poorly done, then I think, you know, African Americans are going to say this isn't true to our experience. But, you know, Leo Tolstoy was a guy, and I read Anna Karenna, and I don't think that he didn't understand women or the women's experience. And, you know, there are people who, when they are young, have written about older people.

There are older people who are far removed from youth who write about young people. fiction is it is not meant to be i keep returning to this but a memoir it is meant to be fiction and there is a kind of truth in it and we should judge it on that truth not limit people to only writing about exactly what they know a good author will talk to you know if you're writing a book about x y z character who's different from you you know if you're a good author you would talk to other people who might have a similar experience um but i think the point of writing these fiction books is that even beyond our unique identities, there's something more fundamental about being human that we can all get in touch with and relate to.

And like that is communicable. And as long as it accurately reflects an experience that someone had, it doesn't matter who wrote it. Yeah, I think that's a tremendous point. That's true. Yes, there is a universal human experience. and it is accessible and there is more that unites us than divides us. But I think the other thing that I was just going to bring up is also, you know, fiction plays a pretty key role in people developing empathy.

And, you know, obviously for the writer as well. And I don't think that, I mean, yeah, if you're an author and every time you have an Asian character or a gay character, he's the villain and you've written 20 novels, okay, that might be concerning and suggest that there's some. inherent racism or something. But that's not, none of these recent examples are that or anything anywhere near that. They're so subjective and based on such tortured readings that, yeah, they're essentially just limiting things in a really profound way. And I thought it was interesting. There are a series of books, I think it's called My Brilliant Friend. It's been a couple of years since I read them. But they're about two women growing up in Italy from the 1950s to the modern day. and they're by a woman who, well, actually we don't know.

They're by someone who writes under the pen name, Elena Ferranti. Some people think they've tracked down who the person actually is. It's hotly debated. This person has, despite written bestselling books, or at least I'm pretty sure they're bestselling, chosen to remain anonymous. And it's sort of interesting because it raises this point. We don't actually know if this woman, if it is a woman,

if this person is Italian, anything. And why does it matter? Clearly, the experience doesn't offend Italians who were familiar with that period. It's resonated with thousands of readers across the world. I mean, they're kind of dark. I don't know if I'd recommend them. But, yeah, it shouldn't be relevant who the author is. I find a surprisingly common thing is British actors playing Americans.

Yeah. I will often watch a movie and be like, oh, that actor was really good. I've never seen them before. And then look them up on Wikipedia, and they're from Great Britain or somewhere. Right. And how are they? Wow. I was like on one hand it's like I

Hmm if you were like playing an American soldier It's kind of odd that you're not American But at the same time you did a great job And I'll watch the movie again Right and I think that's interesting that you bring that up Because I don't think anyone has a problem with that Right and it sort of goes back to the point That you raised earlier like where exactly do we draw the lines

And I think we can say that there might be certain lines And I think it's sort of industry dependent But yeah right now they're just way out of control how far they're being drawn. Yeah. I mean, as a nod to what the people are concerned about, like you don't want to misportray a perspective. Like that's what they're concerned about, I think,

is somebody's perspective being misportrayed. But again, not too hard to get the facts right and to do your research and, you know, write a compelling story. And again, even within quote-unquote identity groups, everyone has a unique experience. So not a single narrative has to define, everyone's experience from that group. Right, and they're labeled as fiction.

They're not claiming to be reported works or something, you know, and yeah, I mean, yeah, go to the internet and say how upset you are about the depiction. Well, if there are any fiction authors listening to this podcast, please write some great fiction and save the genre for us. We're going to leave it there for today. Thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal podcast brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or SoundCloud,

and please leave us a review or a five-star rating on iTunes. Be sure to listen every weekday by adding the Daily Signal podcast as part of your Alexa Flash Briefing. We'll see you again tomorrow. You've been listening to the Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis, sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Ramprasad. For more information, visit DailySignal.com.