The Daily Signal - #452: Former Border Patrol Chief Explains Why Border Crisis Is Worst It's Been in US History

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

In an exclusive interview, former Border Patrol chief Mark Morgan shares with The Daily Signal's Rob Bluey why it's urgent we take action on the border crisis, and the importance of building a wall. We also cover these stories:•Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Ariz., shares what he saw on a recent trip to the border.•President Trump is requesting Congress send $4.5 billion in emergency funding to cope with the border crisis.•Attorney General William Barr is grilled at a contentious hearing about how he handled the release of the Mueller report. The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal Podcasts for Thursday, May 2nd. I'm Kate Trinko. And I'm Daniel Davis. Well, if there's anyone who knows border security, it's Mark Morgan. He served as President Obama's Border Patrol chief, and he says the crisis at the border has only gotten worse. Our executive editor, Rob Bluie, had the chance to talk with Mark about his experience on the border and what the present crisis demands from Washington.

We'll bring you that interview. Plus, our colleague Rachel Del Judas recently went to the border with a group of Congressman, led by Arizona Congressman Andy Biggs. She then sat down with Biggs to reflect on what they saw. We'll bring you that interview as well. And if you're enjoying this podcast, please consider leaving a review or a five-star rating at iTunes to help us grow. Now on to our top news.

Well, President Trump is asking Congress for $4.5 billion in emergency funds to confront the worsening crisis at the border. An anonymous White House official quoted by CNN said the situation was dire. and that agencies are, quote, literally running out of funds. The Bolgo requested funds would go toward humanitarian assistance and border operations, though the official confirmed that none of the funds would go toward the president's border wall. Agencies have been strained, in part, by the change in demographics of those arriving at the border. Whereas it was once mostly adult males, it's now largely families with children from Central America who are seeking asylum.

In a hearing on Capitol Hill Wednesday, Attorney General William Barr discussed the report issued by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, including Barr's summary of the report. We released that. I offered Bob Mueller the opportunity to review that letter before it went out, and he declined. on Thursday morning I received it probably was received at the department Wednesday night or evening but on Thursday morning I received a letter from Bob the letter that's just been put into the record and I called Bob and said what's the issue here are you see and I asked him if he was suggesting that the March 24th letter was inaccurate and he said no but that the press press reporting had been inaccurate and that the press was reading too much into it. And I asked him specifically what his concern was.

And he said that his concern focused on his explanation of why he did not reach a conclusion on obstruction. And he wanted more put out on that issue. He argued for putting out summaries of each vice. volume, the executive summaries that had been written by his office. And if not that, then other material that focused on the issue of why he didn't reach the obstruction question. But he was very clear with me that he was not suggesting that we had misrepresented his

report. A March 27th letter from Mueller to Barr, which was released at the hearing, however, indicated that Mueller did have concerns about the report. the summary. Mueller wrote, the summary letter, the department, sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24th, did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this office work and conclusions. Well, Lindsay Graham, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee, opened up the bar hearing on Wednesday by recalling the findings of the Mueller report. He reminded everyone that he had supported the Mueller investigation as a legitimate thing. And then he

said this. We're going to in a bipartisan. some way I hope deal with Russia. But when the Mueller report has put to bed and it soon will be, this committee is going to look long and hard and how this all started. We're going to look at the FISA warrant process.

Did Russia provide Christopher Steele the information about Trump? That turned out to be garbage that was used to get a warrant on an American citizen, and if so, how did the system fail? Whereas they are real

effort between Papadopoulos and anybody in Russia to use the Clinton emails stolen by the Russians or was that thought planted in his mind? I don't know, but we're going to look and I can tell you this, if you change the names, you'd want to look too. As fighting continues across Venezuela,

the U.S. could intervene as the Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. The president's made very clear that all options are on the table. That certainly includes a military option. We're working to make sure that doesn't need to be the case, that we deliver this outcome for the Venezuelan people in a way that doesn't put life and limit risk and there's not violence. But I don't think anyone should be fooled that if the president makes that decision, if he chooses a military option, that the United States military has the capacity to execute

that option in a way that will achieve the outcome the president intends. That was in an interview with CNN. Pompeo also said that his understanding was that Venezuelan dictator Nicholas Maduro was planning to leave the country Tuesday, but Russia had persuaded him otherwise. Well, the economy grew way more than expected in the month of April, according to new data from ADP and Moody's analytics. Private payrolls grew by 275,000. That's the biggest increase since July of last year. Economists, pulled by Dow Jones, were off by about 100,000. They predicted just 177,000. The biggest gains came in professional and business services, education and health services and the leisure and hospitality industry. The report comes a week after the Commerce Department

announced 3.2 percent growth in the first quarter of the year. Cook County State Attorney Kim Fox is fighting against retired Judge Sheila O'Brien's legal move to have a special prosecutor examine her handling at the Jesse Smollett case. Fox says an emotion, per the Chicago Sun-Times, that the state's attorney had no actual conflict in this case, nor has petitioner Brock forth any facts or evidence of such a conflict. Fox also pointed to the fact that the county inspector general is investigating her handling of the Smollett case. Up next, Rob's interview with Mark Morgan, former Border Patrol chief. We're joined at the Daily Signal by Mark Morgan, former Border Patrol chief under President Barack Obama. Mark, thanks for being back with us at the

Daily Signal. You bet. You know, there's been so much talk recently about the crisis that we face at our border. As somebody who has seen it firsthand from inside the government, tell us what concerns you most. Well, a couple of things. First of all, it's absolutely a national emergency. And here's a couple of things. One thing gets lost in a narrative because recently, finally, everybody's kind of had to acquiesance that there is a crisis at the border. But they really only talk about one element of the crisis, and that's the humanitarian side. And what's lost is it's a dual crisis. It's both a humanitarian and national security threat at the crisis. Make no doubt, it's both.

As somebody who has served under President Obama, somebody who's seen the Border Patrol firsthand, what is it like to be a Border Patrol agent today? So I'll tell you, it's worse in many aspects. It was a challenge when I was a chief in 2016. The morale was really low. We catch and release, as we've all heard, right, was alive and well then.

You saw Border Patrol agents back then when I was chief, I estimated about 15% of Border Patrol. agents were pulled off the line to do humanitarian mission. What I called kind of child daycare services, right? 15% leaving the border wide open. The border of two agents knew that. They knew they weren't doing the job that they were designed to do. The border of two agents knew that the border was less safe because of that.

The border to agents knew they know what needs to be done. They know the resources they needed and Congress wasn't doing what they needed to do. Now it's back in 2016. Now fast forward to 2019, the numbers have skyrocketed. the numbers have skyrocketed. Now that 15% of border control agents being pulled off the line, and some sectors, that's 40%. 40%.

So the border tool agents, every day they go to work, they know that the border is absolutely less secure than the day before. Their morale is low, they're frustrated, they want Congress to act. I want to talk about solutions in just a moment, but you've raised an important point there. You've talked about the increase

and how the problem has become worse. Why? So it's, it's, and this is, And this is something, I know you've talked with Tom Holman, the former ICE director, and he's spot on when he says, and this is what I think part of the education, part of why I'm out here is to educate the American people. This, and I've been trying to say this, unequivocal. The crisis we face right now is the worst and the history of our country, what we're facing right now.

And here's why. Back in the 90s and early 2000, we had like $1.5 million. But we had two elements of that. One I called the recidivism. I mean, the same person was going back and forth. that number actually was way under a million. And then the majority of them were Mexican males, of which we deported 90%. What we're facing right now this year, we're looking at a million, but because 65 to 70 percent are unaccompanied miners and family units, and because our broken

laws, they get to come in. So what the American people need to know with that going to result this year is 650 to 700,000 people were going to let into the United States never to be heard from again. That's the difference. That's why it's the worst we've ever seen. So let's talk about some solutions. The White House is reportedly working on a plan under the direction of Jared Kushner. He's going to be presenting it to President Trump. What would be in an ideal plan that the White House puts together? Two things.

One, the ideal plan is we have to stop wanting to eat the elephant in one bite, right? And so that's where I see that this paralysis in Congress, is they want to eat that elephant. The comprehensive approach. Right, exactly. From a law enforcement perspective, I want Congress to do two things right now. And I believe they could do that in 15 minutes. They need to, with legislative fix, and they could, address the floor settlement agreement and TVPRA. Put everything else aside.

Congress does those two things in 15 minutes. Catch a release ends, and 85% of the humanitarian crisis ends the next day. That's what Congress needs to do, and they need to do it tomorrow. Then they can start going down the road of a more comprehensive and talk about amnesty and talk about those other things that they want to do. But they need to do that. another point, address floor settlement agreement, address TB, PRA, 85% of humanitarian crisis goes away the next day.

One of the things that we've seen in the past, you go back to the 1980s and Ed Meese, the former Attorney General, says this. It was all packaged together, amnesty along with some of the border security measures. And what happened was you had amnesty, and then the border security measures never took place. If they do that, do you believe that there's an opportunity to perhaps go back and continue building the wall, taking some of the other steps that right now seem like pretty contentious ideas in Washington, D.C., but as you've talked about, are quite effective solutions. So absolutely. And this is one thing that concerns me right now. The narrative has really been

taken over on just the humanitarian side. And that discussion about the wall, you've seen that lesson a little bit, and that concerns me because one of my catchphrases I've been saying is we need to do it all including the wall. So the American people need to understand the wall is still an integral part of securing the border. Again, the wall is part of that multi-layer strategy of infrastructure, technology, and personnel, and strategic locations that the experts, the Border Patrol needs. They know where they need it, and that's what they've been asking for.

That's absolutely needed as part of this package. So I am concerned that if they do some package and that stuff is not in there to the extent that it needs to be, our borders will continue to be unsecure. Let's talk about that wall for a moment. You have said that walls do work. How have you seen in your own experience walls working effectively? Yeah, so that's a great question.

I'm glad you asked that. And I want to start by saying anybody who says that walls are ineffective, they are misleading the American people, unequivocally. I'm telling you right now that is a false narrative. If you go back historical data, San Diego, Yuma, you can keep going on El Paso, anywhere where a wall has been built as a part of a multi-layer strategy. And that's a key. That's part of the false narrative, too.

they want to say just the wall. They've never said just the wall. No expert has ever said that. It's part of that multilayered infrastructure, technology, and personnel where those things are all coalesced together. Effectively, it absolutely works. Again, San Diego, for example, just a few short miles. You saw the numbers of illegal immigration go down by 90%. You saw that in you just, again, a few miles of border. And you saw, again, the estimates were between 90, 95% of illegal immigration went down. Crime in that county went down. Drafts. We could go on and on and on. Historical data, facts, they're effective, they work.

Just recently, you saw the Chief Patrol agent, and in Coluxico, when the president went down there, what did she say? And I know her. So she said, she talked about assaults. So assault, when they just built a new part of the wall, assault on agents went down 65% because of the wall. It works.

And it lets the Border Patrol focus on other aspects of securing the border, right? I mean, if you have the wall there, it allows them to do that. Mark, you have a situation, though, where 10 years ago, Democrats in Congress would be supportive of a wall. I mean, even people like Chuck Schumer, Senator Chuck Schumer, what has changed so much then in the past decade? Is it really a political thing with President Trump, or are they relying on some other information that, you know, is leading them to form these opinions? And as you said, misleading statements. So that's another pillar that just, I think, needs to be discussed more. Look, I'm not a political guy.

I'm a law enforcement guy. And I can come to no other conclusion because back in 2006, the Secure Defense Act, a bipartisan bill, right, both sides of the house that led to 654 miles of wall being built. Chuck Schumer gave a speech in Georgetown University where he talked about how effective the wall is, right, back in 2009, I believe it was. And then we fast forward to now they're immoral and ineffective. So the only thing you've got that, plus all the dab that shows that they are from the law enforcement, perspective, I can only draw one conclusion and it's being driven by a personal political

ideology and the American people should be outraged because of a personal political ideology. Make no mistake, our country is less safe each and every day. Mark, what is one of the most heart-wrenching stories that you've experienced, either in your time serving in government or law enforcement or since leaving? We know that stories are sometimes some of the most effective ways that we can reach people with the situation there on the border, on the ground. Does one stand out in your mind? Actually, I would say one from both sides, both from the immigrant perspective and then from the American citizen side.

So with the American citizens, it's not one perspective, but it's a collective group, American citizens who have died at the hands of an illegal alien, and not just at the hands of an illegal aliening, but one who was here has committed. additional crimes who was detained by ICE who should not have been here and they were allowed to be here because of our broken laws and because of our politicians selectively choosing to enforce our laws based on their political ideology and their own personal morality and we do not enforce our laws and because of that American citizens have died I don't understand why this country is not outraged

at that those lives could have been prevented that's number one number two I remember as chief, the first sector that I visited, I'm right on the border. It's night. It's about midnight. And I approached. The agents didn't know I was there. And I watched them interact with a group of unaccompanied miners that had approached. And I will never forget this image.

There was a Border Patrol agent. He was knelt down. And he was talking to this girl. She was about six or seven years old. Lost, scared. And she sat in there. And he is talking to her and dealing with her with this. unbelievable compassion as if the girl was his own and I will always remember that

how are we allowing that to happen and we are because of our broken laws and in our system we're providing that incentive for a mother and father in another country to hand their six-year-old daughter over to the cartels to take this dangerous trek and why why is that being done because they know they set one foot in soil on their end because of our broken laws that's not right yeah it's our heartbreaking. Finally, I want to thank you for speaking out as forcefully as you have and joining us again at the Daily Signal. What is it that motivates you to do that? I mean, you could retreat. You could not necessarily put yourself out there in the position that you have. Why are you speaking

out so forcefully on this issue? Well, I appreciate you asking that. Yeah. So it hasn't always been great. Some of the feedback isn't always great, but it's really easy because I truly believe after 30 years, I joined the Marine Corps. I was 19 and I've been in public service to this country. ever since. It's part of who I am. It's in my DNA. And what I truly see at the southwest border is we are a crossroads in this country. It is a national emergency. I see the safety and security of this country being negatively impacted because we're not solving this problem. So I want to be part of the process of educating and informing to try to solve this problem. Well, we support that, finding solutions. Mark Morgan, thanks so much for being with The Daily Signal. You bet. Thanks for

having me. Are you looking for quick conservative policy solutions to current issues? Sign up for Heritage's weekly newsletter, The Agenda. In the agenda, you will learn what issues Heritage Scholars on Capitol Hill are working on, what position conservatives are taking, and links to our in-depth research. The agenda also provides information on important events happening here at Heritage that you can watch online, as well as media interviews from our experts. Sign up for the agenda on heritage.org today. We're joined on the Daily Signal podcast today by Congressman Andy Biggs from the great state of Arizona.

Congressman, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks, Rachel. It's great to be with you. So about a week and a half ago, I spent a day with you at the border. We went down, you were leading a congressional delegation in your state, showing them up close and personal the crisis at the border. And you represent Arizona. It's a border state. But was there anything you saw during that trip that was most surprising or underscored the need for border security for you during this visit? Well, it's not real often that you walk on to an apprehension of about 42 people, and we did that

back-to-back days, 42 people each of those days, and then additional ones for 100. And when you see that it's being handled by two Border Patrol agents, and what's happening is each one of those adults in the group has a child with them. It just underscored what's happening and the total breakdown of our system. And then you couple that with the detention facility in Yuma that was built for 250 people, that it was housing more than 750 people when we went to see him inhumane conditions. I mean, the authorities are doing the best they can, but it's resulting in the release of, so I told you we apprehended 42.

They apprehended about 350 a day in that Yuma sector, and they release 100,000. 15 a day into the community, and then they transfer 150 a day up to Phoenix Ice, which is also releasing hundreds every day because they simply don't have enough facilities to detain and hold these people. But you see, that's what it is, you've got a, it's like a bathtub situation where the drain out, the number that they're releasing, is still fewer than the number of people that they're apprehending. So we're overwhelmed in that area.

Well, you mentioned the thing that was most surprising to me, we mentioned us burning across those 40 people that had just been apprehended. And the thing that was most surprising to me and really just underscored the situation there was the two or three Border Patrol officials that were there. You know, you mentioned those 40 people that we saw. How does that underscore, I guess, the needs that DHS and other facilities, it doesn't seem like they have the resources that they need?

Is that something that you saw as well? continued your tour there. Yeah, absolutely. So personnel-wise, if you look at it, the bill that I voted against because it was a horrible bill and basically enshrined catch and release, but leave that alone, it did provide for additional Border Patrol officers, agents to be hired. The problem is they already have thousands of vacancies in CBP and ICE is in a similar boat. So you have thousands of vacancies and then we authorize more, but we can't fill the ones we have. And I don't know if you were there when we asked, and I'm not sure what day we asked this, but we asked CBP, you know, how's the academy going? Well, we've got people in the academy and how many, well,

60 to 100 or something like that. And then by the time they'll drop out, you know, about half of them drop out. We're still fighting a losing battle there. So the New York Post recently reported that the Pentagon awarded about $1 billion in contracts to two companies for the border wall, and I believe this is the first funding that's been given for border wall construction. What are next steps in this promise that Trump made in, you know, during his campaign to build a border wall, and what do you see happening as this $1 billion has been awarded?

Well, I am concerned because the awards went to some firms that I hope they can deliver. I'm not sure that they can. But we need to be making sure that we're building 30-foot fences. You were there. You saw the difference between an 18-foot fence and 30-foot fence. We've all seen videos of pregnant women and toddlers making it up and over an 18-foot fence. That's not going to happen on a 30-foot fence. It's so much more daunting and deterring.

It provides a deterrent effect. So the next steps are, is they actually have to break ground and they need to get moving very quickly, very swiftly. And so I would hope more money gets freed up. I hope they use some of the more qualified groups. I mean, the group we saw put together a really impressive program. And we'll see how it goes, but they need to put pedal to the metal here. I think Daily Signal will be having a story coming out on Fisher Industries and the Outper Purpose. that they showed us. So that was very, very enlightening. You mentioned very briefly the DEA

briefing that you had. Can you talk a little bit about that in the situation they see with drugs being trafficked across the border and why this is a threat not only to Arizona's, but also the whole country? Well, the DE presentation, DEA presentation was incredible because they showed us a map of the U.S. and they said, this is where the cartels are and what the areas they control. with regard to drug and human trafficking. And virtually every state has an affiliate with maybe Los Zetas or, you know, any other cartel. And what they're doing is they are flooding the areas with human trafficking and then bringing

across in different, while we're occupied, overwhelmed, they're bringing across drugs and then other cartel members in those other areas. but also they also demonstrated to us that they have found that these human trafficking cartel operations are going they're coming up maybe through Yuma the one that they they talked about originated in Yuma but they're going to five main cities and one of them is Charleston, South Carolina and these people are sending 40, 50, 60 people who are claiming asylum they're going they're listing the same sponsor, same address and and we send them over there. And when they get there, the cartel cuts off their ankle monitor for $30. Is the going rate? And then they turn around and they say, here's your social security card.

They give them a false security card, another false ID. They get them into a job. And then they will charge these people a fee and take a portion of everything that they're earning. And they'll require them to pay $30,000, $50,000, whatever it is. So there's basically this kind of indentured servitude or slavery. In the meantime, they take the kids that they've used to obtain this family release or this asylum release, and they will hold them until they can clear them and then take them back to rent out to another group. And DEA worked with local law enforcement officials and brought some of these people to justice.

but when I asked how many groups there are, they said hundreds, perhaps thousands of these groups coming across. It touches every community in the country, the opioid epidemic with the deaths that are happening, directly tied to the drugs that are coming across, specifically the Mexican-Arizona border. Yeah, that was similar to what one of the Border Patrol agents in our car in our SUV, when we were doing the night tour that Tuesday night, he was explaining to us that, A lot of times the cartels, they have this system game so well where they'll bring the people over and then they'll tell them when to cross. And then while the two or three border patrol agents, you know,

are completely, you know, trying to process these 40 people. They're distracted with them. They'll send a couple cartel members over with drugs and they just slip through the cracks because there's not enough manpower to actually apprehend those people as well. Exactly right. And so, and the reason I take people down to the borders, I just don't think most people have an appreciation.

of the vastness and the barrenness of the border and how wide open it is. I mean, we went up in helicopters and flew literally 50, 60 miles across the border, and they have this Normandy fencing. Normandy fencing is designed to stop vehicles, but does nothing for people. People just, as you know, you were there, you climbed over, and we all did, and it's not a problem at all. And where we were at the Colorado River, even, we're talking, it's 10 feet wide and maybe you know, calf deep.

We could have waited over it if we wanted to. Absolutely right. And so it's so they're overwhelming us. It's unbelievable to see it in person. I want to dig it your thoughts on. There's reports coming out this week and I think most recently yesterday on Monday that President Trump is considering

this asylum tax that would require illegal immigrants who have come over to pay a fee and have their applications and work permits process. What is your take on that? And do you think there's a better way to potentially go about this? I think there's all kinds of ways to try to resolve the asylum issue. But he's getting at something I think is fundamentally correct,

and that is you've got to put a deterrent wherever you can. And so I think having a fee is fine. Look, what's happening is most of these people who are coming up claiming asylum have literally paid thousands of dollars to a coyote or drug cartel or human trafficking cartel to transport them up and bring him into. the United States. Charging a fee for the asylum is, in my opinion, is not a major issue. But the other problem is think about this.

So many of these people that we're releasing into the country, whether it's asylum or many times without even an asylum request, because we're just overwhelmed, we're giving them work permits. And the president's saying, well, we're going to at least charge it for the work permit. So on one hand, people are saying, well, we're concerned about we don't have enough laborers, and yet we're bringing in literally hundreds of thousands of people giving them work permits. Some of them being actually, like I said, controlled by the drug cartels and their affiliates through human trafficking and kind of an indentured servitude, but nonetheless,

they are getting these work permits that we are giving them. Exactly. And something else that the off-duty border patrol officers were talking to us about, and I wanted to get your thoughts on this as well as he was saying that he thinks that the credible fear interview should be implemented into the interview process where people who come over and claim asylum should actually be interviewed do you actually have a credible fear of returning to your home country are you is your claim of asylum is that actually accurate um what are your thoughts on that and do you see that potentially being implemented down the road yeah see in reality if a border patrol used to act as kind of immigration officers where they would actually take somebody take them back across the border

immediately. And so if you start doing what they're talking about is they become an immigration officer again and can go forward and conduct these interviews and then transport them back across the border immediately. Because most of these people,

those who show up something like 2% have some kind of credible asylum claim. Nobody else does. I mean, you get a feel for how much fraud there is in that system. and right now all they have to say is I have a fear basically

and they're going to get to stay in this country for up to five years or longer because it takes two to five years just to get to the court case and most of them don't show up for that. One of the other really sobering parts of the trip was speaking with the angel parents. I spoke to Marian Mendoza and Steve Rana Beck about both of their children who have been killed by illegal immigrants. Why do you think these stories are so ignored by mainstream? stream media, they're heart-wrenching stories. This continues to happen. The Daily Signal will have

stories on both of these parents up. But what do you think we can do and why do you think these stories? They're ignored and they're, you know, horridously heartbreaking realities that we face. Well, we know that there are criminal, criminally violent illegal aliens who get into this country and wreak mayhem on people. And people like Steve and Marianne, you know, they're the survivors. I think the reason that this goes unreported or underreported by the mainstream media is because it undercuts their narrative. Their narrative is that GLs, we have a bunch of economic refugees coming across who just want to better their lives and we should welcome everybody into this country. And the reality is, if you were to look at certainly in Arizona and see

the prison population, people we've actually caught, there's a a significant proportion who are illegal aliens. But if you also look, there's a disproportionately high number who've committed rape and murder and assault, aggravated assaults. That's a real problem for the narrative that everybody's just coming here, looking for a better life. And if that narrative gets turned back and flipped on them, then what happens is the other side is going to lose the battle. But here's the reality is Americans are sensitive to this now, and I think most people now realize this is an emergency. It has been elevated to that, to that extent. And so when we get back to the asylum thing that President Trump's trying to do,

everything he should be doing now that I hope and where I see him going is that we're treating it like an emergency. We have to accelerate building a wall. We have to accelerate giving these cases adjudicated. We have to change the asylum laws and bring pressure to bear on Mexico to do what they can. I mean, you've got these caravans, just as you and I are speaking, filled with, I think, ones like almost 10,000 people coming across. And guess what? They're not mostly Mexicans folks. They're northern triangle states. And there's people from Africa and Asia. in the mid-east all in this caravan. And guess what? Cuba.

I don't know if you were there when they said now that Cuba's, Cuba is now really participating heavily in these caravans. Cubans coming over. I did. I was not there for that portion. That's incredible. Well, in conclusion, and to kind of set the stage for just looking ahead into, you know, what's next steps, why should, you know, regular Americans,

people who aren't on border states that might not be following this as closely, why should we be concerned in conclusion? Well, everything from drug and human trafficking is coming all across the country. So Phoenix is a major gateway, but they come there and they disperse throughout the country. So when the DEA officials gave us their briefing, I think there was maybe one state that did not have a significant cartel presence with drug and human trafficking. This is organized crime, and it's everywhere, and it's a massive, problem and we let 1.2 million legal aliens in last year, legal immigrants. And what we're looking

at this year is potentially as high as 3 to 4 million illegal immigrants coming to this country, and many of them will be released by us throughout the country and others. We won't even know who they are. Well, Congressman Biggs, thank you so much for joining us today, making time. We appreciate it. Thank you, Rachel. And that's going to do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast, brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or SoundCloud, and please leave us a review or a five-store rating on iTunes.

We'll see you again tomorrow. You've been listening to the Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis, sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Rampersad. For more information, visit DailySignal.com.