The Daily Signal - #489: She Took on the IRS ... and Won

Episode Date: June 23, 2019

On today’s episode of The Daily Signal Podcast, we feature an interview with Catherine Engelbrecht, founder of True the Vote. She explains how her organization took on the IRS and won an important victory in court.Plus, American colleges and universities were at one time highly regarded and trusted institutions. Today, they are more often in the news for suppressing free speech and driving up student loan debt. We bring you a commentary from Lindsey Burke, director of The Heritage Foundation’s Center for Education Policy.We also share letters to the editor from our readers about Daily Signal reporter Fred Lucas’ recent article, “19 Arrests Later, a Texas Town Is Torn Apart Over Voter Fraud.” Your letter could be featured on our show; write us at [e-mail] or call 202-608-6205.And finally, a good news story about one man who is making a big impact in his community and across the country in a very simple way.The Daily Signal Podcast is available on the Ricochet Audio Network. You also can listen on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or your favorite podcast app. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts.Help us spread the word about The Daily Signal Podcast. Please give us a 5-star review and share this episode with your family and friends. That will help us make sure we are continuing to grow and reach more listeners.Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Monday, June 24th. I'm Robert Blewey. And I'm Virginia Allen. Today we share an interview with Catherine Engelbrecht, the founder of True the Vote. She explains how her organization took on the IRS and won. We also have a commentary from the Heritage Foundation's Lindsay Burke on higher education and the ways that we can fix it. We'll wrap up today's episode with your letters to the editor and a good news story about one man who is making a big impact in his community and across the country in a very simple way. Before we begin, we would like to ask for your help. Each day we strive to deliver you important news and interesting interviews on the Daily Signal

podcast. If you like what you hear, please give us a five-star review on the Apple Podcasts app. That will go a long way to helping make sure that we are continuing to grow and reach more listeners. Stay tuned for today's show. Coming up next. Today we are joined on the Daily Signal podcast by Catherine Inglebrett, founder of Truth of Vote. Catherine, thank you so much for joining me today.

Oh, thank you much for having me, Virginia. Absolutely. It's a pleasure. Now, Catherine, you founded True The Vote in 2009 in an effort to really curb the rising tide of voter fraud. Can you tell me a bit more about what led you to found the organization? Sure. It really started quite by accident, a small group of folks. folks, myself being one, went to volunteer in working the polls. And although most of us had fantastic experiences, there were a handful that came back and said, you know, you're not going to believe what we saw.

And this was in Texas, the things that we were seeing at the time before voter ID were things like people coming in with multiple voter registration cards when they presented one. They were told, oh, you've already voted, and then they pull another one. or people, this is sort of most common, then, as is now, people would come in and say, I don't remember who I'm supposed to vote for. And the judge would take them to the booth and would instruct them in who to vote for. And that's very different than assistance. We didn't know any of that at this point back in the day.

We just thought, this is, that doesn't seem, you know, you're just kind of slackshot in the moment. Like, I don't think you're supposed to tell people who, but what do you do? right? I mean, it happens, it's over. So when we all came back together, we compared notes and thought, you know, if this is what happens when people are observing, what happens when nobody's there? And the reason that we were there to begin with was because otherwise no one would have been there. And that led to a much broader recognition of the need for volunteers, questioning the accuracy of our voter registration process and our registries as they were. held at the, you know, county and state level. And that's really where True the vote started. It was, it was never about sort of the political, you know, firestorm that it became. It was really then, as is now, about the power of citizen engagement and encouraging citizens to take back the process of our elections, which is, you know, we are the rightful owners of the process. We just have to get back on the field. Yeah. Well, True The Vote gained national attention

almost a decade ago when you decided to sue the IRS. And could you give a brief summary of why you all decided to take this action? Sure. You know, to set the record straight, we actually didn't sue until 2013, but you are exactly right that we haven't fighting this for a decade without question. So almost from the moment we filed our nonprofit status paperwork with the IRS just basically requesting that they acknowledge that we're a nonprofit. And usually that process, you file some paperwork, they may come back with some questions,

you answer the question, you send it back, and then they say, thumbs up, thumbs down. Yes, you are. It's a charity, no, you're not. And usually that whole thing end to end, you know, four or five months. At least that's what we've been told. And I'd never had any experience. I just went into this just as wide-eyed as, you know, as anybody possibly could. I never, never expected that I would repeat.

the whirlwind. So filed the paperwork. And within just a couple months, actually the adventure started. In just a couple of months, I had been sued twice, once by the Texas Democrat Party, the other by the group called the Texans Together Education Fund, which is back in the day was an Acorn Front group. They sued for some of the research work that we had done, which outed some of their tactics and they didn't like it. sued me for, among other things, psychological damages. So go figure. But that was the first, that was sort of the first dip into the political swimming pool that I would find myself in for the next several years. The IRS piece, though, began to catch traction almost immediately upon those lawsuits being served, which, again, at that point, it was like, God, I just got sued twice, and now the IRS is coming back with these weird questions.

But at the time, you know, this is still 2009. It just was all very new, and I didn't have any political background. I knew that the true intent of true the vote was not partisan. It wasn't anything other than just get people involved in the process. So I thought, you know, okay, this is just weird, and I'll answer the questions and move on. Well, the questions continued. We didn't get our nonprofit status in a four to five months that is typical. It took us over three years, and ultimately only when we sued, and that was the

cause of the lawsuit. In that time, we answered probably 300 additional questions from the IRS, not just questions that had anything to do with how we intended to conduct ourselves as a nonprofit, but rather they wanted to see every Facebook posting I'd ever posted and every tweet I'd ever tweeted. They wanted to know everywhere I'd ever spoken and to whom and what was said and everywhere I intended to speak in the coming year. questions that were far more aligned with opposition research, frankly, than they were with fiduciary responsibility.

So that was spinning in its own orbit. At the same time, we were beginning to have at our, we used to have an office, and at the office where we would have meetings, suddenly the FBI started showing up, and then professionally in my vocation at the time, which was a manufacturing company, we had ATF show up, OSHA show up, we pursued professionally and personally twice in two consecutive years. All of this happened in a period of about 24 months, in about 24 months, I was either audited or had inquiries or investigations started against me over 23 times. Wow. So 23 audits investigations inquiries in 24 months and still no 501C3, which I have. After years, your donor base begins saying, you know, what's wrong with you guys?

What are you – why can't you get your 501C3? Yeah. So with all that in mind, and, you know, after Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms showed up at my place of business for the second time in 13 months, I said, that's it. You know, who can we sue and how fast can we sue them? And I really didn't know where to start. I knew my civil liberties had been violated. I knew that what was happening with the IRS was unconstitutional, but I hadn't told a soul about all that was happening for over two years

because there was such a stigma, right? I mean, it's like, God, the government's everywhere. It just, you know, you think about somebody that's under the microscope and they must be doing something wrong, and I'm, you know, trying to figure out what that something is while it's all happening. And then, Virginia, what I realized, and this probably is the most important lesson, of all, of my entire experience, is there is power in speaking out. There's power in telling the truth boldly and just letting the chips fall where they may,

even if it means that you have to say some uncomfortable things to agencies, institutes or individuals that wield extreme power. And that was the case with the IRS. they were winning. They were strangling through the vote because I was being silent. And two years in, I said, enough is enough. Let's take it to them. And that's when we turn the tables.

And I want to ask you just a little bit more about that because you do speak with such resolve about, you know, how you were so open to kind of take this battle on head first. And, you know, why did you see this as such an important battle to fight, not just for true the vote, but for liberty as a whole? You know, it's a great question because it really wasn't, you know, it really wasn't, again, then nor now, really about voter, quote unquote, voter fraud. Does that exist? Absolutely. Does election fraud exist? Absolutely. but you have to look at it, sort of take a step back and look at the 30,000-foot view of it. Although we, you know, we see headlines being made by the surface level of fraud,

what's really going on that is more troubling is the systemic fraud, the systemic subversion that is layers deep and that is, in fact, baked in legally into our process right now. There are so many loopholes and rabbit, holds, and that's what we first responded to back in 2009 was process failure. And further, the recognition that everything we talk about, right, everything that is under the government egos assumes that we've had a free and fair election to get to the point of that, whatever that discussion may be. You know, from who we elect to policy positions, it all presumes that that that reflects

the voice of the American people. And when that no longer is true, then what are we? And from that very first outing of our group, as I mentioned, you know, 80% of us came back and said, oh, my gosh, it was just, I felt so good. I felt like I was doing my civic duty. It was wonderful. But 20% came back and said, oh, my word. And then you have to ask yourself, no, yeah, that was just a, that's a small sampling,

right? But that's when we were watching. if 20% of our polls aren't being run according to the book, and you don't need a whole lot of fraud to swing an election. You just need a little fraud in the right places. Yeah. You know, then at what point do we say this is a priority? This isn't just the fodder for, you know, catty, you know, tabloid news stories about whether or not it.

This is a problem that we as a nation need to address and take seriously. because once our election process is compromised, all the underpinning that comes with that will cause a de-cation on a scale that we can't, I mean, we got close in Bush before, right? I mean, when the nation was on edge. But think about how isolated that incident in its way really was. And then imagine that across the country,

we still have election equipment that caused that problem in Florida. You still have election equipment that old or older in pockets across the country. You know, there's just things that you have to think to yourself, the only reason they're this bad is because someone wants them this bad. The only reason what I asked in these tough questions is because you don't want to know the answers because this can all be fixed. So, you know, again, you say I speak about it with passion. I do because I think about what my children have in store,

and I want them to have the opportunity to have a voice in all of them. this. And I know from what I've experienced, from what I've seen, we as a citizen community have to engage or we will lose the process. Yeah. Well, congratulations to you and to true the vote for your victory earlier this month. U.S. District Court Judge Reggie Walton not only ruled in your favor, but his decision also declared that the actions of the IRS were in bad faith. Can you explain a little bit about what this ruling means for your organization and also for the IRS? Absolutely. Well, for our organization, it just means a huge, huge sigh of relief and enclosure of a, you know, of a battle that has gone on and on and on. And that's really what I believe led the judge to the bad faith enhancement

decision because there was no reason for the IRS to have caused the kind of delay and just protracted process that took on, I mean, it was almost comical. Every deadline was pushed to the last possible moment, every possible condition for requesting more time to respond. was requested. Every time I walked into the courtroom, it was myself and my attorney and 23 of theirs on the other side. The way in which they responded to our inquiries was just, in my opinion, less than professional, all the way through, all the way through. And so I think what Judge Walton saw was, you know, we were suing just to get back attorney.

fees. I mean, this has cost our organization mightily over the years. And so just suing back for attorney's fees, and I don't profess to understand that much about how, kind of how all the calculations work, but I know that there's a cap for which is typical, and then for reimbursement, and then if the court feels that there has been miscarriage of a risk. miscarriage of faith, let's say, on behalf of the party, the losing party, then the court reserves the right to say, you know what, we're going to boost this up to market rates, and that's what we're seeing here. What's particularly wonderful about this upon further research, our team is recognized now

that we're the only case, at least in the last 10 years, that has successfully pled this argument. I mean, we did not settle as other cases with similar, you know, issues at stake. When the IRS was singled, it was targeted, targeted in and singled out other pro-liberty groups, we didn't settle as those cases were resolved. We fought this to the end. And to have the court come out now and say, not only did truth of a win, but the IRS has to pay a premium because of the way that they handled this whole process is just incredibly vindicating and definitely plants a flag in case law for any any other organization or person who may have the great misfortune to find themselves in a similar situation.

Now the true of the vote case will stand where the judge clearly says what they did was unconstitutional. What they did was an abridgment of First Amendment rights. And the result of that was that the, you know, the party at fault had to pay. Hopefully that will be a deterrent in the days ahead, because that was always our goal. It really was never about the money as much as it was just trying to ensure it would never happen again. And so we're thrilled that we can have, you know, the attorney's fees off our backs, but more than that, we're happy that we have, you know, taken up a little bit of a chapter in the history book that hopefully will go on to mean that others won't have to endure what we did. Yeah. Well, now that this lawsuit is behind you,

what is your vision for True the Vote moving forward? Wow. I have to be honest for the last few years, the vision has always been great, but it's been diminished by the amount of oxygen that we could get as an organization as a consequence of this just lawsuit that was an anchor. Now that that's done, and now that we're a little older and a little wiser, we recognize, unlike 2009, recognize the hyper-political nature of what we do, even though it's not our desire, we recognize that and clearly recognize what's at stake in 2020. And with that in mind, 2020, we believe, is going to be an enormous year for true the vote. And the first thing that we're going to do is, and have done, is we've partnered with a group called Our Values, which is a veterans group founded by Mark Geist, who is a friend. Many of your listeners may know the name.

He's one of the Benghazi warriors and one of our country's greatest heroes. If you've seen the movie 13 hours, these Oz and that movie, that's who Mark Geist is. And Mark and I have come together to say, you know what, not only do veterans need to be registered, to vote, which is a whole topic for a different podcast because of what's really going on in the military with respect to voting. But not only did they need a vehicle that's on their side for voter registration, but with the shortage of volunteers across the country working inside of elections, how great would it be? If we targeted a message to veterans and said, please, you know, you had hearts of service

for the country when you served in the military, let's get you inside the polls where you understand the value of chain of command and the rule of law and fairness. And so let's plug some of those vacant holes across the country with well-trained men and women who can serve in a volunteer capacity from the veteran community. And all in all, the big takeaway for us, of course, is election integrity.

And from Mark's group, our values, the takeaway is that veterans will be able to assert their own voice in government, which when you look at, you know, again, different topic for a different podcast, but when you look at what's happening with the VA, their voice is needed because their needs are not being well served. And so that's the first thing we're going to do is a collaborative effort. And beyond that, we anticipate expanding our training effort, and expanding just the tip of the spear kind of research that we were doing back in the day.

And just gearing back up to do the kind of work that True the Vote was known for and is still very desperately needed as, True the Vote, then as now, is still the only national pro-liberty voters' rights organization in the country. and for a long time it looked like that that voice was going to be, you know, shut out and we're back. Yeah, and we're glad you're back. For anyone listening who would like to get involved, whether a veteran or not, how can they do that? You can check out truethevote.org. And from that site, you'll see latest news.

You'll read more about the current decision in the courts. You can sign up for training that is online training for everything from introduction to how to be an election worker to how to volunteer to work on absentee ballots and mailing ballots to election integrity broadly. There's all kinds of training that's available by all free and online. And, you know, just stay tuned. But check out, but forget, hey, check out the website. sign up, join the movement, and help us spin shoulder to shoulder for 2020. Catherine, thank you so much for joining us today on the Daily Signal podcast. And thank you for all that you're doing to fight against voter fraud.

Thank you so much for having this outlet for truth tellers. Appreciate it more than you can know. It's our pleasure. Thank you. Do conversations about the Supreme Court leave you scratching your head? If you want to understand what's happening at the court, subscribe to Scotus 101, a Heritage Foundation podcast, breaking down the cases, personalities, and gossip at the Supreme Court. American colleges and universities were at one time highly regarded and trusted institutions. Today, they are more often in the news for suppressing free speech and driving up student loan debt.

Today, we're bringing you a commentary from Lindsay Burke. She is Director of the Heritage Foundation's Center for Education Policy. Enjoy. American colleges and universities are failing. and one of their most basic missions to equip students with the tools they need for a career. Many students graduate ill-prepared to earn a living and pay off the debt they've accumulated getting their degrees. 40% of those who start college don't finish within six years. Additionally, students are often subject to indoctrination and to socialist ideology.

They face hostility toward opinions that don't conform to the, predominantly leftist thinking on campus. They're also immersed in identity politics that pits students of different backgrounds against one another. Despite these problems, colleges continue to raise tuition. Because federal loan money is handed out with little scrutiny as to the students' ability to pay it back, colleges have had free rein to raise prices at levels often double the rate of inflation.

With all that money, their first spending priority often isn't the classroom but the bureaucracy. From 1987 to 2012, America's higher education system added more than half a million administrators, doubling the number of administrators relative to the number of faculty. To pay for these ever-increasing costs, students are borrowing more money and taking on more and more debt. And with federal loans accounting for much of the $1.5 trillion an outstanding student loan debt and more than a million people defaulting on their loans, taxpayers are picking up much of the tab for this broken system. So what's the solution? While politicians often suggest throwing more money at the problem, that will only make things worse. In fact, the surest

way to stop the sharp increase in both college tuition and student, student debt is to get the federal government out of the student loan business. That cuts off the open spigot of money that has allowed colleges to increase costs virtually without limit. Restoring private lending will make the loan market more responsible and cause colleges to rein in cost, creating more affordable choices for students. Private lending will also limit taxpayers' exposure to billions upon billions of dollars in loan defaults.

One emerging private lending solution is coming from the colleges themselves in the form of income share agreements. Such agreements allow students to obtain financing from their schools and pay it back based on a percentage of their income after graduation. That means their monthly loan payments are lower when their income is lower, ensuring that loan payments are more affordable, or that they can pay them off quicker when their income is higher. This system allows students to see before they take on debt or choose a major what types of careers will allow them to pay off their loans quicker and what kind of future they are investing in.

This kind of cost savings and transparency is a win for students, for taxpayers, and for fiscal sanity. Do you have an opinion that you'd like to share? Leave us a voicemail at 202-608-6205 or email us at Letters at DailySignal.com. Yours could be featured on the Daily Signal podcast. Thanks for sending us your letters to the editor. Each Monday we feature our favorites on this show and in our Morning Bell email newsletter. Virginia, who's up first? In response to Fred Lucas's article, 19 arrests later, a Texas town is torn apart over voter fraud.

Texas rancher writes, voter fraud on either side undermines our system of government. We need voter ID to keep the system as pure as possible. and for the confidence of the people. Without that confidence, why vote? The argument that voter ID disenfranchises some is ridiculous. In Texas, you can get legal voter ID for free. If those involved can get the necessary ID for other uses like welfare, renting, and so forth, they certainly can get the free voter ID from the state. And Max writes, some people in my state hold to the belief that, quote, historically in Texas, all cases about voting were misdemeanors because we should encourage people to vote, not discourage them, end quote.

Unfortunately, this philosophy is pervasive across the nation, including in the mainstream media. Voter fraud is not aggressively prosecuted nor reported. And if you think it is only typical in South Texas, remember the past in New York City and Chicago. Your letter could be featured on next week's show. Send an email to letters at daily signal.com or leave a voicemail message at 202-608-6205. Tired of high taxes, fewer health care choices, and bigger government, become a part of the Heritage Foundation. We're fighting the rising tide of homegrown socialism while developing conservative solutions that make families more free and more prosperous. Find out more at heritage.org.

Virginia, we're back with our good news story of the week. We always look forward to this moment. What do you have to share with us today? Thank you, Rob. Well, you know, we've talked before on this podcast about the importance of simply taking the time for the person that is in front of you. And this week, I came across a story of a man who did just that, and it ended up changing his life forever. Rodney Smith Jr. is the founder of Raising Men Lawn Care Sir. service, an NGO that mows lawns for veterans, the elderly, single moms, and the disabled for free.

It came to me the day I came across the elderly man outside mowing his lawn and it looked like he was struggling, so I pulled over and I helped him out. That night I decided to move free loans for the elderly, disabled, single moms and veterans. At first, my goal was to mow 40 lawns by the end of winter because at the time I was getting my bachelor's computer science. But I reached 40 lawn so quick that I out my goal to 100. A month and a half later, I reached my 100th lawns. and that's when the idea of Raising Men and Law Care Service came about where we will still mow free loans for the elderly, disabled, single moms and veterans, but we will also include kids ages 7 to 17 and show them the importance of giving back to their community. Smith's nonprofit is thriving.

With the help of young people all across the nation, raising men lawn care service has mowed over 2,000 lawns for veterans and those in need. And right now, they have a very unique way for kids and youth to get involved. We have something called the 50-yard challenge, which is a challenge issue to kids nationwide and even worldwide to mow 50-free loans in their community for the LA disabled single moms and veterans. So let's say you have a kid right here in Shreveport, Louisiana, that accepted the 50-yard challenge. They'll make a sign saying, I accept the 50-yard challenge. In return, we will send them a white raising men, long-care service T-shirt along with shades and air protection. Once they mow 10 lawns, they get an orange shirt, 20 a green, 30 of blue, 40 a red, and 50 are black.

And once they reach 50, we fly to red. wherever they are, we do lawns with them, and we also give them a brand new lawnmower. So kids nationwide are taking part of it. Twelve kids have so far nationwide have completed it, and we currently have 130 plus kids nationwide, including one in Canada and seven in Bermuda and England that are taking part in this challenge. You know, it's such a simple idea, but it's so powerful. What I think I love most about this organization is that it's not only seeking to bless those who are in need, but also to train up young people to be a blessing in their communities.

If you'd like to learn more or would like to get involved, you can visit we are raisingmen.com. Virginia, thank you for sharing that story. As somebody who personally likes to Mo Long, I'm motivated by this, and maybe it's something that my own kids can do. I encourage our listeners to hopefully follow up and visit that website and learn more about this organization.

Definitely. It's a pretty unique opportunity. Well, we're going to leave it there for today. The Daily Signal podcast comes to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. You can find it on the Rurcashay Audio Network, along with our other podcasts. All our shows can be found at daily signal.com slash podcasts. You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or your favorite podcast app. And be sure to listen every weekday by adding the Daily Signal podcast as part of your Alexa Flash briefing. If you like what you hear, please leave us a review.

view or give us feedback. It really does mean a lot to us and helps us spread the word to others. Be sure to follow us on Twitter at DailySignal and Facebook.com slash the DailySignal News. Have a great week. You've been listening to the Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis. Sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Rampersad. For more information, visit DailySignal.com.