The Daily Signal - #539: What You Need to Know About Boris Johnson, and the Path Forward for Brexit

Episode Date: September 5, 2019

Is Britain headed for a political crisis? As new Prime Minister Boris Johnson fights for Brexit to be implemented, he's facing a wall of opposition from other government figures. The Heritage Foundation's Nile Gardiner, an expert in British politics, joins us to discuss how Brexit could still happen on Oct. 31, what's at stake, and what kind of leader Johnson is. We also cover these stories: • Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam has withdrawn a controversial bill that would have allowed China to extradite people to the mainland. • Following a similar move by Walmart, Kroger is asking customers to stop open carrying of firearms in their grocery stores. • San Francisco's Board of Supervisors is now formally calling the National Rifle Association a "domestic terrorist organization." The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Release date: 3 September 2019 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's Canadian Tire's Black Friday sale. With the lowest prices of the year. Hello, can we go? Limbo again. Shop the Black Friday sale at Canadian Tire and save up to 60%. November 27th to December 7th. Conditions apply, details online. This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, September 5th.

I'm Jared Stetman. And I'm Kate Drinko. Today we talk to Nile Gardner, director of the Margaret Thatcher Center at the Heritage Foundation, about what the heck is going on with Brexit, and what's next for the British people? British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is calling for a new election, while other politicians are fighting hard to prevent Brexit from ever occurring. Nile explains what's going on and what could happen next.

And if you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to leave a review or a five-star rating on iTunes and encourage others to subscribe. Now on to our top news. After months of protests, Hong Kong leader Kerry Lamb withdrew a controversial bill that would have allowed China to extradite people to the mainland. quote, we must find ways to address the discontent in society and look for solutions, Lam said in a video statement on Wednesday. After more than two months of social unrest, it is obvious to many that this discontentment extends far beyond the bill. The Heritage Foundation's Mike Gonzalez said on a previous episode of the Daily Signal podcast

that in the 1980s, China promised to respect the rights and liberties of the people of Hong Kong. Gonzalez said, quote, this idea of extraditing people to China, where you don't have the rule of law, in Hong Kong you do have the rule of law, is obviously a violation of that promise, and the people of Hong Kong just completely reject this. Though the extradition bill was withdrawn, Lamb did not address the other demands of the Hong Kong protesters. Activist Joshua Wong, who was recently arrested along with other activists and opposition politicians, said on Twitter, quote, Kerry Lam's repeated failure in understanding the situation has made this announcement completely out of touch.

She needs to address all five demands. Stop prosecution, stop calling us rioters, independent inquiry of police, and free election. Lightbulb freedom is in. The Trump administration has announced it won't be implementing a new rule first passed in the 2000s and set to go into effect soon that would require certain light bulbs to be more energy efficient.

While this won't affect the common pear-shaped light bulbs, it will affect other kinds. An unnamed senior department of energy, official told reporters, per the Hill, quote, this regulation gives consumers more choices and consumers are better off with more choices. End quote. It's expected that the administration will face lawsuits over this. On Tuesday, a federal court judge restored Playboy magazine reporter Brian Karram's press credentials after they were stripped by the White House last month. The judge said that maintaining First Amendment rights comes before maintaining order at the White House.

Karam had his credentials suspended after he got into a confrontation with former Trump administration aide and current radio host Dr. Sebastian Gorka. During the altercation, Karam said to Gorka, hey, come on over here and talk to me, brother, or we can go outside and have a long conversation. Gorker walked over to Karam and said, quote, you are threatening me in the Rose Garden, you are a punk, you're not a journalist, you're a punk. The White House said in a statement on Wednesday that the judicial decision would give, quote, free reign to members of the press to engage in unprofessional disruptive conduct at the White House. The shooter behind the horrific spree in Texas over the weekend that left seven dead and another 22 wounded shouldn't have had legal access to buy a gun. The Wall Street Journal reports that the shooter, quote, was barred under federal law from owning or buying firearms because a court had previously

determined he was mentally unfit, according to law enforcement officials, end quote. In 2014, the shooter had in fact tried to buy a gun and had not been able to because of the background check. It's unclear how he obtained the gun that he used. Following a similar move by Walmart, on Tuesday, Kroger asked customers to stop open carrying of firearms in their grocery stores. Jessica Adelman, Group Vice President of Corporate Affairs at Kroger, said in a statement, quote, Kroger is respectfully asking that customers no longer openly carry firearms into our stores.

other than authorized law enforcement officers. Adam also said that Kroger is following Walmart, in quote, encouraging our elected leaders to pass laws that will strengthen background checks and remove weapons from those who have been found to pose a risk for violence. So San Francisco is added again. The city by the Bay's board of supervisors is now formally saying the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist organization. Fox affiliate KTVU reports the district two supervisor,

Catherine Stefani says, quote, The NRA exists to spread disinformation and knowingly puts weapons in the hands of those who would harm and terrorize us. Next up, we'll feature an interview with Nile Gardner, who breaks down what's going on with Brexit. If you're tired of high taxes, fewer health care choices, and bigger and bigger government, it's time to partner with the most impactful conservative organization in America.

We're the Heritage Foundation, and we're committed to solving the issues, America faces. Together, we'll fight back against the rising tide of homegrown socialism, and we'll fight four conservative solutions that are making families more free and more prosperous. But we can't do it without you. Please join us at heritage.org. So just as a heads up, the interview with Nile was recorded on Wednesday afternoon. Obviously, this is a fast-moving issue and we'll continue to monitor So amid political turmoil over Brexit, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is calling for a new election on October 15th. Via BBC politics, here's what Johnson said on Wednesday night.

Mr. Speaker, it is completely impossible for government to function if the House of Commons refuses to pass anything that the government proposes. And in my view, and the view of this government, there must now be an election on top. Tuesday the 15th of October. And I invite the right honourable gentlemen to respond to decide which of us goes as Prime Minister to that crucial council on Thursday the 17th of October. I think it's very sad that MPs have voted like this. But if I am still prime...

I do. I think it's a great dereliction of their democratic duty, Mr. Speaker. But if I'm still Prime Minister after Tuesday the 15th of October, But then we will leave on the 31st of October with, I hope, a much better deal. The leader of the opposition now has a question to answer. He has demanded an election for two years while blocking Brexit. He said only two days ago that he would support an election. And now, Parliament having passed a bill that destroys the ability of government to negotiate, is he now going to say that the public,

cannot be allowed an election to decide which of us sorts out this mess. I don't want an election, the public don't want an election. The country doesn't want an election, but this House has left no other option than letting the public decide who they want as Prime Minister, and I commend this motion to the House. So, joining us to discuss Brexit, new British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Moore is Nile Gardner, director of the Margaret Thatcher Center at the Heritage Foundation. Niall, thanks for joining us.

It's my pleasure. Great to be here. Thank you. So first off, do you think there's going to be an election? What's at stake? Johnson specifically called out this meeting on October 17th. What's that meeting and why does it matter? Well, it's a real game of chess at the moment.

And the prime minister has called for an early general election on October the 15th. and that is just actually two days before the European Council meeting on October 17th and 18th, and just two weeks ahead of the Brexit deadline, which is October the 31st. So the clock is ticking down towards Brexit. The Prime Minister has just lost a vote in the House of Commons on the issue of who controls the time table for Brexit, and the Commons has voted for Parliament to seize control of that time. that timetable in an effort to block a no-deal Brexit.

And of course, the aim and the goal of members of Parliament who have voted against the government is to ultimately block and stop Brexit altogether. And so Boris Johnson is saying that in order to deliver Brexit, which is the will of the British people, 17.4 million Britain's vote for Brexit in June 2016, he says there has to be a general election and the conservative government according to Boris Johnson must be brought back with a majority in order to pass legislation

and he's thrown down the gauntlet to Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party, to back a general election. The Labour Party has to be said are not actually cooperating with Boris Johnson's call and the Labour Party is not, agreeing to a general election before the October 31st Brexit date, not least because the Labour Party, I think, would suffer huge losses in that election. I expect the Conservatives would win an

election comfortably, and certainly the opinion polls show that, but you need two-thirds of Parliament to support an early general election, which is why you need the Labour Party to support Boris Johnson's call for a general election. So a very difficult situation, a bit of a stalemate at the moment. And it remains to be seen exactly how this is all going to turn out. But to summarize, I mean, this is really a battle between the British government standing on a platform of delivering and implementing the will of the British people with Brexit, pitted against members of parliament who wish to derail and stop Brexit. This is what it's all about here. And, and, and I'm And Boris Johnson, I think, is the right man of the right moment in history here.

And he is now calling on the British people to back him in a general election. And I think there should be a general election held on October the 15th to decide once and for all the issue of how Britain should move forward in implementing Brexit. But it has to be said the leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, who's a far-left Marxist, is running scared because he knows that the Labour Party. is going to be heavily defeated in this election. So what's the timeline here for determining whether there is an election? Obviously, this is a very different system than the United States has. It seems shocking to me that you could have an election this quickly. But when would it have to be voted on to actually occur?

So it had to be voted on this week because the government has proroged parliament, as it's known, or in other words, suspended parliament for a period of nearly five weeks, starting at the beginning of next week. So there has to be a vote this week on whether or not to hold a general election if Parliament votes against holding an early general election. After all, the next general election is officially supposed to in 2022. This is why a parliamentary vote is required here.

If Parliament votes against a general election, it does put the Prime Minister in a very difficult position. then the Prime Minister has to decide whether he is going to basically implement what Parliament has voted for or whether he is going to choose to just simply go ahead with a no-deal Brexit on October 31st and ignore the will of Parliament. So it is a very difficult position that the Prime Minister is placed in. and there is also the issue of how the House of Lords is going to vote as well because in order for this bill to go through, the House of Lords

has to also vote in favour of the bill. There are 92 conservative amendments to this legislation, the House of Lords, and so it is not entirely clear that there will be sufficient time for this. this bill to pass through the House of Lords. If it does not go through the House of Lords, the legislation put forward by the House of Commons will not be implemented. And the legislation that you're talking about here

is the delay of Brexit without a deal for another three months past October 31st? So the legislation that has been put forward by the opposition party together with over 20 rebel conservative MPs, the legislation basically instructs the Prime Minister to seek an extension of Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, extending the date for Britain's exit from the EU to January 31st, 2020. And the goal of this legislation really is to, in my view, prevent Brexit from ever happening by calling for endless delays to Britain's exit from the European Union.

And so we should be absolutely clear about what is the intention of those members of Parliament who have put forward this legislation. It is to destroy Brexit. It is to prevent Britain from leaving the European Union. And therefore, the Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear that he is not prepared actually to follow what this legislation stipulate. and that's why he's calling for a general election. Now, if he doesn't get a general election, is the Prime Minister on solid legal ground in Britain

if he ignores Parliament and just leaves the EU? Well, that is a very good question, and I think that it's a complex constitutional matter here. And Boris Johnson made it very crystal clear today. he was not prepared to implement this legislation. And if indeed Parliament does not vote in favour of a general election, then this creates an extraordinary situation where the Prime Minister has already made clear

that he's not prepared to delay Brexit beyond October 31st. But that's what this legislation is calling for. And I think it will be up to constitutional lawyers really to give the clearest, I think, description of what may possibly happen here. But I have to say that this legislation pits Parliament against the will of the British people. The British people voted to leave the European Union. Parliament is blocking that at the moment. So this is an historic moment, quite possibly a constitutional crisis for Great Britain.

And only time will tell to see how this is resolved. So this is not the first time that it's been proposed for Brexit to be delayed, or in fact, the first delay, correct? Yes, yeah, that's correct. And so Theresa May was not able to get her EU-withdrawal agreement through Parliament, and Britain then was compelled to delay at the start day for Brexit and to seek an extension. And why have these negotiations between the EU and Britain over the Brexit deal? why have they been so fraught? Why have they not been able to come up with a deal that's acceptable to both? Basically, in essence, it's because the European Union has treated the Brexit negotiations as a kind of punishment beating for Britain. And so the EU has made all kinds of unreasonable demands, which have not been acceptable to especially many conservative members of Parliament who voted against the e-w withdrawal agreement.

And in my view, the EU has not approached the negotiations good faith at all. Basically, the EU fears what Brexit means for the future of the European project and the future of the European Union, which is why they have handled these negotiations such an unpleasant fashion. They fear that Brexit will potentially lead to the breakup of the European Union. They fear that if Brexit is a success, that others will follow Britain's example, and therefore they are trying to punish Britain in terms of the negotiations. And that's why the EU-Wadraw agreement, as Theresa May negotiated, it was defeated three times in the House of Commons,

not least with a significant number of Conservative MPs voting against it. And so Boris Johnson has called for a new agreement to be negotiated with the EU, whereby the EU makes significant concessions. and I have to say that although Britain is negotiating in good faith, the EU is not. And we are very much heading, I think, towards a no-deal Brexit in terms of eventually leaving the European Union. And so anti-Brexit MPs are well aware of this and they fear that if Boris Johnson is able to proceed, that he will take Britain permanently out of the European Union. So they are trying desperately to stop that by delaying the process.

And if there is a no-deal Brexit, what does that actually mean? And is it, as some pundance have suggested, the end of the world in Britain basically goes back to the dark ages? Yeah. So a no-deal Brexit simply means that Britain negotiates or trades with the rest of the world under world trade organization terms. So the United States deals with much of the world under World Trade Organization in terms it has some specific trade agreements with some countries. But the United States actually trades with the European Union under World Trade Organization in terms of the moment. There isn't a US-EU trade deal in place.

They have been working on one for many years. It has never seen the light of day. And so Britain is the world's fifth largest economy. It's been a great trading nation for hundreds of years. It has the strongest big economy in Europe. The German economy is in very difficult conditions. The British economy is doing a lot better. Britain will overtake Germany probably by 2030 is the largest economy in Europe.

Britain's population is rising, German is falling. The UK is going to do just fine. And already there are advanced preparations, not just in Britain, but all over Europe for a no-deal Brexit. The Germans are preparing for it. The Germans sell 15% of their cars to the UK. Large numbers of German workers will lose their jobs if trade does not continue freely between the UK and Germany. So I think that what will happen is that Britain and the EU will negotiate a series of mini deals to cover all sectors, of economic activity and eventually they will come to a broader trade agreement.

And so a no-deal Brexit doesn't mean the end of the world, as its critics allege. It simply means that Britain exits the European Union without a formal agreement with the EU. Britain is already talking to over 100 countries in the world about implementing free trade deals including with the United States. And those deals we put into place within the next couple of years. And I'm sure eventually there will be a good deal with the EU as well. But I think sanity will prevail in Europe, and a pragmatic approach will be implemented by European governments

to ensure that trade continues freely post-prexit. It's in the interest of both sides to have that happen. And I think Britain will do just fine. And Britain did just fine before it was a member of what was originally the European Economic Community and later the European Union. and I think Britain will do just fine outside of the EU today. So I'm very optimistic about the economic prospects, foreign investment continues to pour into the UK. A lot of big U.S. companies are investing very heavily in Britain.

A million American jobs depend on British companies and vice versa. And there's going to be a very big U.S.-UK. trade deal in place in the Brexit era. So on Wednesday, President Trump talked about Boris Johnson, via BBC politics, here's what the president had to say. Well, Boris is a friend of mine, and he's going at it. There's no question about it. He's in there. I watched him this morning.

He's in there fighting. And he knows how to win. Boris knows that a win. Don't worry about him. He's going to be okay. So to backtrack a little bit. Of course, as you mentioned, Boris Johnson is a relatively new prime minister, succeeded Theresa May.

He's often compared to Trump. seems to think rather highly of him. What should people know about Boris Johnson and what kind of leader is he? Well, Boris Johnson is a very charismatic figure. I think he's someone who is 100% dedicated to delivering Brexit. He is a very clever individual.

And I've met Boris Johnson on many occasions. I've hosted him here at the Heritage Foundation in the past. He is actually a very brilliant politician. and he comes from a very, very highly educated background. And he's someone who, I think, has the right leadership skills to lead Britain in the Brexit era. He is a conservative conviction politician. He's a big admirer of Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher. He's totally different to Theresa May, who was an exceedingly dull figure who really had very little in the way of any

kind of political ideology. Boris Johnson is different. He is a true conservative. And he's also struck a very good relationship with President Trump. And it's very good to see President Trump supporting Boris Johnson. That's a reflection of the strength of the special relationship. And I think that Trump's instincts are right here. Boris Johnson is going to do well.

I think that Johnson will win the general election comfortably. And I think he's going to deliver Brexit. And so I wish that members of Parliament would have the same faith in Britain that President Trump has, actually. And Trump has demonstrated a very high degree of faith in Brexit. He is the biggest supporter of Brexit on the world stage. And, you know, I think he's sending exactly the right message of support for Britain at this time. So it's been over three years now since the British people voted for Brexit. What's, you know, as you mentioned, there are obviously forces in parliament who are trying to make sure it never happens.

What's at stake here? I mean, is it economic things like having to bail out other countries? Is it sovereignty and not having the EU tell them what to do? Like, what does Britain face if they end up staying in the EU? Yeah, that's a great question. Why did the British feel vote for Brexit? Why do so many Britain still continue to support Brexit? and the level of support for Brexit hasn't fallen, I don't think, at all.

And at the end of the day, I think that the most important reason, and polling has demonstrated this, in terms of the reasons why British voters supported Brexit, the top reason is the desire to retake control of Britain's sovereignty and self-determination, to be a free country again. About two-thirds of British laws decided in Brussels. and British courts are subject to the rulings of European courts. Britain has no control over its trade.

It doesn't control its own borders. The European Union really dictates a great deal of British everyday life. And that is completely unacceptable. And it is time for the British people to throw those shackles off and to be a truly free country. Again, no member of the European Union is a truly free nation. And that's a price that countries pay for being a member of the EU. It's a surrendering sovereignty.

And so the debate in Britain over sovereignty is similar to debates that are taking place all over Europe, actually. You can see it in every European country. And there's a growing backlash against the centralization of power in the EU. You see that especially in countries like Italy, for example, Poland is a very good example of this. And all over Europe, you are seeing a growing rejection of the centralization of power. when the EU started out in the form originally of the European coal and steel community, later the European economic community, it started off really as an economic bloc. It developed later into political one. And when Britain joined the EU, the British voters did not vote to join a separate national EU super state. They voted to join what they thought was a sort of, you know, free trading area or customs, you know, customs union that morphed into a separate national EU super state. They voted to join what they thought was a sort of, you know, free trading area or customs union that morphed into a sub- subter national monstrosity, now has 28 countries, and no nation in the EU has complete sovereignty. And so that is at the heart of Britain's, the British people's desire to leave.

Secondly, of course, I think is the desire really to control immigration, decide who comes into the country, is a very big part of that. That ties into the sovereignty issue. I think also So there's an issue of the cost of the European Union. Britain is a net contributor to the EU, and the UK pays far more into the EU than it gets out of the EU. And so Britain has to subsidise southern European countries, eastern European countries to the tune of tens of billions of pounds a year, and that isn't popular with a lot of British voters.

And so those are some of the main reasons, but I think at the very hard, this is a debate about sovereignty and self-determination, something that all Americans can relate to. This is about freedom. This is what Brexit is all about. It's about the right of a nation state to decide its own future, the right of the British people to have their own laws, control their own borders, decide who actually has control of Britain's courts. And these are fundamental freedoms that people have fought and died for,

you know, thousands of years. And the British people have decided, you know, that they want to retake that freedom. And that's what Brexit is all about at the end of the day. All right, Nail, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. Thank you very much having me on. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast,

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