The Daily Signal - After Her Husband Joined ISIS, She Fought Islamic Extremism

Episode Date: February 6, 2020

For Tania Joya, who was raised Muslim in London, it was a long journey to life in the United States. “I wanted to be in America, but my husband … thought that was bad for my religion and he thought that I would teach my children the wrong values,” recalls Joya. “So he took us to Syria.” After her husband became an ISIS fighter, Joya worked with U.S. officials, sharing information from her husband. Now she's working against violent extremism. Read the interview, pasted below, or listen on the podcast: We also cover the following stories: The Senate voted to acquit President Donald Trump. Vice President Mike Pence decried House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's ripping of Trump's State of the Union text. FBI Director Christopher Wray testifies and addresses the Inspector General's report about the FBI and the FISA Courts. The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, Apple Podcasts, Pippa, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, February 6th. I'm Rachel Del Judas. And I'm Kate Trinco. Today we're featuring an interview our colleague Virginia Allen did with Tanya Joya, a Muslim woman who was horrified when she realized her American husband was working with ISIS. Working with the United States, she escaped Syria with her children and passed along intelligence to the U.S. Now she's fighting Islamic extremism. Don't forget.

If you enjoy this podcast, please be sure. to leave a review or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now on to our top news. In a historic vote Wednesday, the Senate voted to acquit President Donald Trump. On the first charge, regarding the abuse of power, the vote was 52 to 48 in favor of acquittal.

On the second charge, obstruction of Congress, the vote was 53 to 47. The Senate having tried Donald John Trump, President of the United States upon two articles of impeachment exhibited against him by the House of Representatives and two-thirds of the senators present not having found him guilty of the charges contained therein. It is therefore ordered and adjudged that the said Donald John Trump be, and he is hereby acquitted of the charges in said articles. That was Chief Justice John Roberts speaking after the vote via ABC News.

Senator Mitt Romney of Utah was the only Republican to vote to convict President Trump, and he did so only on the first charge about the abuse of power. Here's some of Romney's remarks via ABC News on why he voted that way. The grave question the Constitution tasks senators to answer is whether the President committed an act so extreme and egregious that it rises to the level of a high crime and misdemeanor. And misdemeanor. Yes, he did.

The president asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival. The president withheld vital military funds from that government to press it to do so. The president delayed funds for an American ally at war with Russian invaders. The president's purpose was personal and political. Accordingly, the president is guilty

of an appalling abuse of public trust. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell derided the House Democrats' handling of the entire impeachment process via C-SPAN. The architects of this impeachment claimed they were defending norms and traditions. In reality, it was an assault on both. First, the House attacked its own precedence on fairness and due process, and by rushing to use the impeachment power as a political weapon of first resort. Then there are articles attacked the office of the presidency. Then they attacked the Senate and called us treacherous.

Then the far left tried to impugn the Chief Justice for remaining neutral during the trial. And now, and now for the final act, the Speaker of the House is trying to steal the Senate's sole power. to render a verdict. Speaker says she will just refuse to accept this acquittal. Speaker of the House says she refuses to accept this acquittal. Whatever that means, perhaps she will tear up the verdict like she tore up the State of the Union address. Vice President Mike Pence said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's ripping up of President Donald Trump's State of the Union address was a new low. Here's what he had to say about the incident Wednesday on Fox & Friends.

Let's bring in Mike Pence. our vice president. You were there. You were standing right next to her behind the president. Good morning. Good morning. What was your reaction? Did you realize when she was ripping it up what she was doing? I didn't see her do it. I found out just a few moments later, and I think it was a new low. I wasn't sure if she was ripping up the speech or ripping up the Constitution. I mean, you know, it's clear. The contrast here was a president who spent an hour and a half making the speech about America. Right. And Nancy Pelosi in the final moments tried to make it about her.

And I think the American people see through it. I think they see through the pettiness. They see through the politics of all of it. And I think what they got last night was a speech that lifted up the country that celebrated the incredible progress that we've made in our economy, rebuilding our military, strengthening our courts. But the stories, the stories that the president told were American stories. And I just know it was a great, great blessing to people all across America.

And it's one of the reasons why you see the momentum growing behind this president. And I just have a strong feeling that she's going to be the last Speaker of the House to sit in that chair for a long time. Talking to fellow Democrats in a closed-door meeting on Wednesday, health speaker Nancy Pelosi reportedly defended her decision to rip up the text of President Trump's State of the Union address. He shredded the truth, so I shredded his speech. Pelosi said, per Politico, what we heard last night was a disgrace. New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had harsh words for President Trump bestowing conservative radio legend Rush Limbaugh with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Here's what she had to say on Instagram Live, via Town Hall.

Reaction to Rush Limbaugh receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom. First of all, the Presidential Medal of Freedom is an extraordinarily sacred award. We're talking about putting someone on the same level as Rosa Parks, for example, in terms of their contributions to American progress. Rush Limbaugh is a violent racist. But even just on top of that, to do it in the middle of the State of the Union and not even dignify it with its own ceremony as it has, There's all sorts of norms that are being violated, not just for people's humanity, but also it truly just cheapens the value of it.

Limbaugh's producer, Bo Snerdly, who is African-American, responded on Twitter to a similar accusation from CNN's Jim Acosta. I just saw footage from CNN's Jim Acosta saying that Rush has a history of saying disparaging things about African-Americans. I have been in the studio with Rush for 30 years. I would like to formally challenge CNN and Acosta to provide the list. On Wednesday, FBI director Christopher Ray testified before the House Judiciary Committee. He specifically addressed the December report from the Justice Department's Inspector General that found the FBI had acted inappropriately in its push to investigate the Trump campaign in 2016 and in its dealings with the FISA courts.

At the time of the report's release, Attorney General William Barr said in a statement. The Inspector General's report now makes clear that the FBI launched an intrusive investigation of a U.S. presidential campaign on the thinnest of suspicions, that, in my view, were insufficient to justify the steps taken. It is also clear that, from its inception, the evidence produced by the investigation was consistently exculpatory, and in the rush to obtain and maintain FISA surveillance of Trump campaign associates, FBI officials misled the FISA court, omitted critical exculpatory facts from their filings, and suppressed or ignored information negating the reliability of their principal source. Here's what Ray had to say about the actions the FBI is taking via C-SPAN. The failures highlighted in that report are unacceptable.

Period. They don't reflect who the FBI is in an institution, and they cannot be repeated. The FBI has embraced every last one of the Inspector General's recommendations, but we're also making a number of improvements above and beyond those recommended by the Inspector General. I've already ordered more than 40 corrective actions, including significant modifications to our FISA policies and procedures. Next up, we'll feature Virginia's interview with a woman whose husband join ISIS. If you're tired of high taxes, fewer health care choices, and bigger and bigger government, it's time to partner with the most impactful conservative organization in America. We're the Heritage Foundation, and we're committed to solving the issues America faces.

Together, we'll fight back against the rising tide of homegrown socialism, and we'll fight poor conservative solutions that are making. families more free and more prosperous, but we can't do it without you. Please join us at heritage.org. I'm joined by Tanya Joya, a former ISIS bride who fled Syria with her children, and now works with Congress, the State Department, and Homeland Security to fight for the de-radicalization of extremist Muslims. Tanya, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you for having me here. Tanya, your story is an incredible one, and we have so much to unpack. So I want to start at the beginning. You were raised in London. Were you raised in a Muslim home? Yes, I came from a Muslim cultural family. They weren't radical or extremist in that sense. And I was introduced to radical Islam or jihad, I would say, through my cousin who was radicalized at Oxford University.

And she taught me about the caliphate. This is in 2000, right before September 11th. And then what happened after September 11th? Did that change your perspective? It turned my life, like, completely upside down. So I was studying social studies at A-level, just, like, senior high school. And so I never really was aware of Muslim politics. It was alien to me.

I didn't know existed. And when September 11th happened, I remember I came home from school, switched on the news, and saw it, and it was horrified. I went to school the next day, and I spoke to my classmate. She was a Pakistani girl. I was like, it wasn't it dreadful what happened? And she was like, was it so bad? And I thought, well, she must not have understood my questions. I kept rephrasing.

And she was like, okay, just come home after school and talk to my parents. They'll help you understand. So this is like part of the pull, like that extremist, the recruiting process. It's like, come into my home, come to a safe space where we can talk, where we won't be listened to. And then I wasn't hearing it directly from her because even she didn't. understand politics. I was hearing it from her parents who glorified Osama bin Laden as a war hero who had defeated the Soviet Union on the battlefield. And if it wasn't for Osama bin Laden and the mujahideen, America wouldn't be the superpower, it'd be Russia. So that, you know, that was

like making me curious about my heritage. And I'm a Muslim, it's like nothing I can do about it. And growing up in a working class neighborhood in England, we had this split politically, where the English natives were siding with the B&P, the British National Party, it's a neo-Nazi party, and English Defence League. And then as a result of the growing movement of white nationalism in England, to oppose that, the Muslim community were radicalizing with their Islamic political gender.

That's how a lot of youth in Europe and some in America, we went down this dark path of first it was like we had an identity crisis as teenagers we didn't know who we were we weren't allowed to be Western because that's satanic according to Islam and then being Muslim especially a Muslim woman means giving up all your freedoms

but when you think God is on your side and you're young and you want a revolution you want change and you also want a problem you want a cure for all the problems in your life, well, who else is going to fix it better than God? So you're under that misconception. And then we are also told that Islam will solve all the problems in the world, we'll have a beautiful utopia. When you're young and vulnerable, and from a broken home, especially, you long for that. And that's what draws in so many people into radical Islam as children,

but also with neo-Nazis. We see the same pattern where I call it the war on white males that is happening right now and it's phenomenal and it's marginalizing white male youth to lean towards neo-Nazism because that gives them a space where they can embrace their masculinity and feel some pride.

So I completely empathize with it. So with the program I'm working with now, Preventing Violent Extremism Workshop, which was made by the Klaman Project, it's our solution. It's our way of trying to help the US with this mental health crisis that we're having right now,

we're not going to take people's guns away and say, hey, that's going to solve the breakdown of family values. It's not. It's instilling the values into children from a young age, from fourth grade up, with a value system that is so grounded that when they come across arguments that will draw them into any sort of violent,

extremist political movement, they're going to say, hang on, My value system is way better than this. It's humane. It doesn't involve killing people as if to kill people for a bad, it's a bad idea. And it's basically giving them the arguments, the counter-narratives to prejudice and hateful ideas. Wow. And you know, you're so right that this is a situation and an issue that touches men, it touches women, it touches Americans, touches Europeans. Your husband was, your first husband was an American.

How did you all be? He's still an American. Yeah. He's an American who it started off at September 11th. He came, he was a military brat. And in my eyes, I thought he was born with a silver spoon. He was born into what the life that every non-American wishes they could be. Like they would love to exchange places with him. He was a white American, upper middle class family with a legacy, a military legacy.

His dad was a colonel in the Air Force for 30 years. His grandfather fought in World War II was a general, and then he turned out to be a commandant ISIS. And how did that happen? I mean, that seems like a really radical jump to have your father be in the American military and serve, and then you decide to go and become an ISIS fighter. Again, it goes back to him not having a good relationship with his dad to begin with. And again, we see this pattern with a lot of people who have become neo-Nazis or, or extremists, violent extremists in particular,

they don't have the stability at home or they have something adverse happens in their life, which they might need psychological helpful, but they're not getting it, and then they turn towards movements, political movements, that give them meaning and purpose. And plus, in a society where we live in, where we're told it's all about the material things in your life,

they're looking for spiritual enlightenment, but they're not looking in the right direction. Wow. Yeah, that's something that's so innate in all of us, that search for purpose. So when you met your husband, was he already radicalized? Yes. He was. So when he was 17 years old, what started off as a rebellion against his father,

just to annoy his father as much as possible he became a Muslim, that was the worst thing you could do in his family, because they were a Greek Orthodox family. They had this whole history of not liking the Ottomans, rightfully so. The Ottomans enslaved a lot of Europeans. I could understand it. But he couldn't live up to his dad's image. His dad was a quarterback at West Point, who became a doctor and a colonel.

His dad was 6'44. He was this very good-looking get for... But John didn't compare. John had bone frailities and was... he was in a wheelchair for six months he became very depressed he started doing drugs at 11 years old he was not on the same road as his father was and so there was conflict between the two of them

so john's feeling of rejection by his dad made him look for family elsewhere or respect elsewhere and also the feminist movement also pushed him towards looking for a community that embraced him as a male and Islam certainly does that that's really interesting I want to ask you more about that so he actually found that

kind of the modern American in your face feminism made him kind of pull back and want traditional values interesting seek patriarchy a patriarchical family even myself

I longed for the same thing being told oh being a state home mother wanting to be a mother in the first place oh that's so unambitious that's so And really it's like it was internal for me. It was natural.

I was like, well, I'm quite maternal. And I'd love to have children. But that wasn't the right narrative. That wasn't like, it's like we're all supposed to fall online and say the same thing. But I loved, I wanted a big family. I wanted to have the family that I didn't grow up in. And so one of the reasons why I allowed John to come into my life, I met him online on a website. He was studying Arabic in Damascus.

And I was in London, we were 19 years old. And I looked at him, I was like, wow, he's got the life that I want to be. So we got married after three days. I didn't know him. Wow. Three days. But sadly, I grew up in a culture with arranged marriages where girls didn't know the men they were marrying, and boy, did they regret it.

But they didn't have a choice. I saw forced marriages. Even, like, again, the culture they came from was so anti-Western. even though we were living in the West. We weren't allowed to integrate. There wasn't a place for us. So we ended up looking backwards, like, well, where do I come from? Where are my roots?

But we only stopped to a certain point. We thought, we were helpless young kids who were seeking, I wouldn't say with power, but it's almost like that. Like with neo-Nazis, we find that they want to come off crazy, They want to come off scary. It's a power trip. It's the same with Islamists. It's the same with ISIS.

They want to come off scary and like crazy people. Wow. To scare civil people. Wow. Let's fast forward to 2013. You and your former husband and your children moved to Syria to join jihadist insurgents. Can you just paint that picture for us when you all arrived in Syria? What was the atmosphere like, you know,

the people that were around you, the camp that you all were in, you know, what was the atmosphere? Yeah, I just want to clarify that I didn't want to be in Syria because I had children. I wanted to be in America, but my husband knew that he thought that was bad for my religion, and he thought that I would teach my children the wrong values. And it's the right values, but in his walk of mind, it was the wrong values. So he took us to Syria from Turkey, we're supposed to be living in Turkey, and as soon as I got to Syria, and as soon as I got to Syria, and as soon as I got to, I got a phone, I reported him.

And I said, I need to get out. Because if you don't allow me and turn back, if I can't leave Syria and come back to the U.S., you're not going to have one American terrorist, but you're going to have five, because he's going to put my children on the front lines, and I'm going to have to bury them, and that's the last thing I want to do. So part of my maternal instinct was to save my children and to see them not just survive, but I knew that the only place that will really thrive is here in the U.S. And so while I was there, it was terrible, it was a war zone.

Everything was rubble. I would hear shooting outside. When we first got there, John was interrogated, and the militants, they weren't ISIS, because ISIS came nine months after I left Syria. And yes, my husband had a lot to do with creating ISIS, and he was a commander, but he lied to me about it for a long time, but I knew he was, and then he finally admitted to it. Well, while I was there, I was only in Syria for three weeks.

during the war. And I would have left earlier, but the roads were blocked. There were all these blockades. There was very little food coming in where I was staying in Azaz. And I was five months pregnant. And then my kids and I all got infections, because that's pretty normal when you go to a third world country to get sick. So we all got sick, but I didn't want to be there. I didn't want to be there for one day. But as a stay-at-home mother who, like, I was raised, I was like groomed to be a submissive wife, a dormant wife, I would say. And that's pretty much how I was at first, because we were told I was indoctrinated to believe that obedience to your husband is obedience to God.

But when I approached my mid-20s, my second child, but then I had enough of that. I was like, I'm not going to follow his foolish mistakes over and over again and believe this is obedience to God. And it made me really upset because I knew he was dangerous for us. It's just as a Muslim woman when I was a Muslim I had no real divorce rights He wouldn't give me a divorce I didn't have the right to dress the way I wanted

To think what I want to think And that's where my ex-husband John and I clashed And it was when I came to America And I watched Fox Business In 2009 I was homeschooling and I was doing laundry And I need mental stimulation Because my kids would drive me crazy So it would watch the news

and I saw Judge Andrew Napolitano discussed the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And it opened my mind. I was like, I was a complete phomo. I was like, I'm missing out. You know, I need this. I believed I was a slave from the time I was born. And I used to be told freedom is satanic.

Freedom is, it's for the people who go to hell. They want freedom. We're slaves. We're slaves to God, though. It's good to be a slave to. And when you only hear the same voice over and over again, you just think that's the way of life, you know? Well, well, well, that's it.

me, I don't have a choice about it. Right now, off the topic of it, one in four Muslims in America don't believe in the religion. And that's a great transition. Ten years ago, the numbers weren't that high. So we're making progress. American values, especially in our generation

and the younger generations, we're seeing, you know, we're seeing, hang on, American values are humane values. This is how humans prosper and do well. And this is what the founding fathers wanted for us. And even the founding fathers of America understood the threat of jihad and the idea of a caliphate because they understood the Ottoman Empire

and they understood that women are property, children are property. That's all we were. And we had no rights. There was no room for us to grow. It was like our roles in society were assigned. You'd become baby-making machines. And for some reason, when I was 19, I thought, oh, that's not so bad. But then I had it, and I realized it's stressful.

And plus, I was in my 20s. I was like, I want to do what other women do in their 20s. Like, have a job. So how did you find that freedom, both physically from Syria to America and then, you know, in your heart and mind and psychologically to find the freedom to say, I'm not a slave? Coming back to the US, it gave me, I had to disassociate myself from the Muslim community. And it was hard because that's all I knew, my entire life.

But I had to do that so that they wouldn't condemn me. Because it was, you know, when you get condemned so much, you just start allowing people to think for you. So I needed to remove myself. And then I was free to study whatever I wanted. I started reading a lot of Thomas Payne material. And he made so much sense. the rights of man and many of his books. And I just like, he speaks from my heart.

He puts into words what I feel. And it's beautiful. And this is what humans should all embrace. You know, these are American values, not Hollywood values, American values, that everyone can benefit from. It was hard. I probably had a few mental breakdowns, but I bounced back stronger and smarter.

I wanted, the reason why I came out with my story, because I could have just stayed quiet, I came out my story because I want to speak on behalf of all the women who are from the same cultural background that I'm from where they're very suppressed. And I want to speak on their behalf and say, there's a better life out there. You don't have to put up with this dogma. You know, you should be able to be free and you are still a good human being, even if you're free.

Was that process of coming to America difficult for you? you? What, I mean, were you accepted by neighbors? And what was that integration like? Oh, I mean, I'm from Texas. Everyone's friendly in the south. I love it. And I can't live on the East Coast because people are so friendly in the South. Texas is a good state. Great state. And it's very welcoming to migrants. They want to see people do well. They want to see people prosper, because that's good for the economy. It's good for everybody. And if immigrants are coming to the country with the right values. They're going to be great citizens.

If they're coming in with their third world mentality and thinking that's what God wants and they have a right to destroy this earth because God tells them to, then they're dangerous and they can't be loud in this country. I mean, we've seen like even with the, recently some attacks of Saudi Arabian was, he was in the military and he shot up some guards or something like that. It's like, because he didn't have the right value system. Yeah, yeah. And as you mentioned, your former husband did go on to become a very high-ranking ISIS fighter.

Did you stay in contact with him? Or, you know, when you escaped from Syria with your children, were you kind of dead to him at that point? So once I left Syria, I was more than happy to help the FBI collect information. So I would continue conversations with him on Skype and Telegram so that I could pass it on to the authority. because the authorities, this country, the government saved me and my children. My loyalty now was to them only. And I didn't feel bad about it

because I knew he was playing the same game with me. He was lying to me and he was just trying to get my children. He wanted to get the children back because he's delusional. I would never agree with it. But he was like at the time ISIS was doing well in Raqqa. In 2014 and 16 they were rising and he thought they were, you know, they really thought they were going to establish.

estate fully. So we were playing this, like going back and forth where we're just trying to trick each other to get information. Then finally, end of 2017, Graham Wood came out with the Atlantic article that exposed who he was. So ISIS started saying, oh, he died to throw everybody off so that we would, so that no more investigations would go into looking for him. Wow.

He could be hiding in Turkey or he might have died, but there's no evidence for his death. Wow. He could still be alive. And since he is a white American, he could go into Europe easily. I mean, he don't have to be white to go to Europe. The migration is so open. But there's no point of borders even. But it's been infiltrated and they're dangerous. These people are really dangerous.

So let's talk a little bit more about the work that you're doing now. You know, so much, I think, of the goal is obviously to prevent that radicalization in the first place. How do you do that? We have to start somewhere because it's a health crisis, and it's everywhere in every state. And again, this isn't happening anywhere else in the world. It's only in America. We've got mass shooters and young people who are such ideologues, who feel like by shooting up their schools makes them,

that leaves them a legacy. But it's a mental health crisis, and we feel that if these kids who statistically come from very broken homes, there's missing father figures or their fathers are abusive, their mothers are abusive, or there's a little alcoholism in their family,

they need to learn at school in the place of education, a space that will teach them the correct values because it's a value problem. gun problem. It's a value problem. And, you know, I always say I've met the nicest Muslims in the world, but having the wrong ideology in the right value system can make them horrible people, dangerous people. So, yeah, it's about reaching out to children from as early as fourth grade and instilling them, and teaching them empathy, social responsibility, community building, and how to put their grievances into words. and even they need training while they're young

so that when they reach the teen period they know, they already have the skill set to be able to argue their points in a country where we have freedom of speech. Fingers crossed, it stays that way. But, you know, we still have that value and we need to teach them how to use their voices and not pick up guns to kill people

or drive trucks into crowds. How have you, as a mother, had those conversations with your own children? own? Well, my children, they're so disappointed in their dad and they're like, why can we just have a normal dad who plays baseball, teaches us how to throw a ball because they struggled with that. They didn't know how to when they came to the country. My ex-husband taught them how to hold a gun, but didn't teach them how to throw a ball. Poor kids, right? But they're getting there and they love it and they love American sports and they're getting there. It was a transition. It wasn't easy.

but children are far more adaptable than adults and they want to fit in and it's like my story I wanted to fit in as a young girl but I wasn't allowed it was forbidden it was satanic to be like an English girl and we were slut shamed for wearing jeans

terrible wow I mean that's American culture for you it's like but they made everything so ugly for us and everything was black and white so for my children I just remind them that any form of extremism and when you mix violence in that equation, it's, you're, you, that's destructive.

So they don't want to go down their dad's path. And, you know, we take them to church. I go to a synagogue. I take them there to, we're grounding them in American values. And there isn't a day that goes by that I don't remind them that we wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for this country, for this government. And we have to show our loyalty to it. I drill it in to them.

The way my ex-husband would have drilled in jihad, I drill in American values. to them and that they need it and it gives them structure it's very important for human beings yeah tanya how can our listeners follow your story and find out more about the work that you're doing there's the website clarion project slash preventing violent extremism the workshop so it's pve i'm also on social media i've done lots of interviews i did a very successful interview with glenbe a month ago so i'm around and i'm always talking to everybody going around the country to schools to the law enforcement telling my story. And it really is proof that America is the land of opportunity.

And it is, for me, it's the immigrant dream. You know, I'm living the American dream, thanks to America. We can't stifle these values. It would be such a discredit to the founders of America if we did. Tanya, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you sharing your story. It's so powerful. And that'll do it for today's episode.

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