The Daily Signal - Back From Israel: Morgan Ortagus Recounts Stories of Trauma

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Israeli leaders such as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “look like shells of their former selves,” commentator Morgan Ortagus says, following meetings in Israel earlier this month.  But Ortagus, who was State Department spokesperson under President Donald Trump, says the weariness extends to the people of Israel, many of whom remain “traumatized” from the Hamas terrorist attacks Oct. 7.  “The very existence of the state of Israel is threatened whenever they are attacked,” she says, adding, “It's a tiny country. It's a tiny people." "So when they are attacked, it's existential to their surviva," Ortagus says. "And we of course know that more Jews were killed on Oct. 7 than on any other day since the Holocaust. So I know that has to weigh with the leadership.”  As host of “The Morgan Ortagus Show,” a new Sunday offering on SiriusXM Patriot, the former State Department official is using her platform, and her nearly two decades of national security experience, to communicate the history of tension in the Middle East and what America's role should be.  Ortagus joins this episode of “The Daily Signal Podcast” to explain what she learned after meeting with Netantahu and other senior leaders in Israel and Saudi Arabia, and visiting some of the kibbutzim where Hamas terrorists tortured, raped, and slaughtered Israelis on Oct. 7.  Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Sentinel podcast for Thursday, January 18th. I'm Virginia Allen. Former State Department spokesperson Morgan Ortegiz has just gotten back from the Middle East, where she met with senior leaders in both Israel and Saudi Arabia. She says those conversations were telling, and what she saw from the locals in Israel was heartbreaking. She is joining us on the show today to talk about her experience, both in Israel and Saudi Arabia, and bring her analysis, bringing almost two decades of experience with foreign policy to the table. Morgan is also host of the brand new show on Sirius XM on Sundays, the Morgan Ortega's show. All right, without further ado, stay tuned for our conversation after this.

Conservative women are problematic women. Why? Because we don't adhere to the agenda of the radical left. Every Thursday morning on the Problematic Women podcast, Kristen I-Cammer, Lauren Evans, and me, Virginia Allen, are joined by other conservative women to break down the big issues and news you care about. Whether you're interested in hot takes and conversations on pop culture or what Congress is up to, problematic women has you covered. We sort through the news to keep you up to date on the issues that are of particular interest to conservative leaning that is problematic. Women. Find problematic women wherever you like to listen to podcasts and follow the show on Instagram. It is my pleasure and honor today that we have joining us the former State Department

Spokespergen Morgan Ortegis Morgan. Thank you so much for being with us. And I'm so excited that we get to talk about your brand new show that comes out every single Sunday on Sirius XM Patriot, the Morgan Ortegis show. And congratulations to you on having that brand new show well. Thank you so much. Well, first of all, it's great to be on with you. I know you have a lot of loyal listeners, and I hope your loyal listeners will consider listening to the Morgan Ortega's show. It is every Sunday 11 to 1 East on Patriot Channel 125 on Sirius. You can actually listen on the Sirius app as well. And then I do try to put out some of the interviews on social media. We've been so lucky. I mean, we have presidents and senators and former national security advisors and secretaries of state

It's two hours of American National Security foreign policy. And sadly, the Biden team is making this topic even more relevant because it feels like there's a new war or conflict every day. Well, and I love that you're bringing about two decades of experience in that field of foreign policy and international relations. But it's so encouraging that we have someone with your expertise level who is bringing folks on the show who also have not only expertise, in the area, but who are leaders in our nation who have power to change things and having really, really important conversations. What is your mission for the show? Oh, what a great question. What I want to do is to take foreign policy out of the, like so for so long the conversation happened in Washington, D.C., where I do not live. I am in Nashville, Tennessee. I like living outside of the

Beltway. But for so long, these conversations happened amongst self-proclaimed, high-minded, highly educated people. And I think it needs to be democratized. I think the average person can certainly understand, you know, the difference between the Houthis and Hamas and what Iran is doing. You know, the world can be a very complicated place, but it also can be pretty simple. And the approach that we took under President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, my boss, is we looked at the world and we said, you know what, we're going to have a very realistic view of the world. We're going to believe dictators and people for what they say, not for what we think they mean. And what do I mean by that?

Essentially, a lot of times I felt like in the Obama administration, for example, there was this tendency to say like, oh, well, you know, this dictator doesn't really mean this. There's no way Putin's actually going to invade, right? For example. Well, of course, we know he did under both President Bush and President Obama's watch. I think that he didn't under President Trump's because we actually made it pretty clear what the consequences would be behind the scenes. We didn't have to trumpet it to the media what we were going to do. But, you know, when we were dealing with, you know, Putin, Xi Jinping, the Ayatollah, whoever it may be, we took them for what they said. So whenever Iran says they want to destroy the state of Israel, we believe them.

And we're going to try to prevent them from doing so. And when Putin says he wants to invade, it was President Trump. everybody forgets this. It was President Trump who put measures in place like giving lethal weapons to the Ukrainians in order to make sure that we were deterring Putin. So, you know, the main thing is, is I think that we need to have a realistic view of foreign policy. And by realistic, that means that every time we use, you know, ships or weapons in the Middle East, that ships are weapons that we're not using in the Indo-Pacific, there's real world trade-offs. And so we need to discuss and debate what those trade-offs are, what our foreign policy should be. And I think think, get back to a much more realistic view of the world. And when we're telling the American people that we have to commit money or resources or manpower, we need to have achievable goals in sight for that the American people can understand because this is democracy, right? Like our foreign policy decisions shouldn't be made by unelected people in Washington that think they know better than everybody else. Yeah. Well, you've been getting your hands dirty on this issue and you recently just

got back from Israel and Saudi Arabia. You met with a number of leaders over there. Share with us, if you would, what were the conversations that you had in those nations? Who were the people that you were meeting with? Well, it was an enormous privilege to go back to Israel. I was actually in the Middle East. I landed in Doha on October 7th on that morning. And I did not sleep at all on the plane, which is weird because, you know, I spent about half the month when I was with Mike Pompeo for two years, probably a good half of the month we were overseas. We were traveling a ton. So I'm pretty used to sleeping on planes. So it's unorthodox for me not to sleep on a plane, but I couldn't really sleep.

And I was, and so I'm exhausted. I get to the hotel and a friend says, are you paying attention to what's going on in Israel? Now, sadly, I feel like there's always something going on in Israel. So you kind of are like, okay, okay, yeah, I'll look at it. And then I looked, I started investigating and I looked into it. And I thought, oh, my God, this is not, this is not. This is, yeah, exactly, this is different. So proceeded to get no sleep after that.

was actually headed to Israel. I was going, believe it or not, I was going to be a part of a peace conference and economic conference. Arab delegations were coming. I was speaking at it. Senator Joni Ernst was going to speak at it. And Hamas did what it did on October 7th, specifically to disrupt things like what we were going to do, you know, at this peace conference. So saying that, it broke my heart that I didn't make it to Israel, obviously, on that trip and had not been there. you know, so I was there, you know, in January, so it would have been three months since everything had happened. And I will say, you know, I met with Bibi Netanyahu and Ganssen and Herzog and those people many times with Secretary of State by Pompeo when I was working for him. This time

going back, it was, you know, it was heartbreaking because, you know, remember we lost 33 Americans that day. We still have six Americans that are held hostage. I try to talk about this in every interview, by the way, because, you know, it should be on the nightly news every single night, a reminder that sixth Americans are still being held hostage by a terrorist group. And the only reason, by the way, that we're down to six, we were at eight, but Hamas has killed too. So, you know, everybody needs it. When we look at this, what's happening in the Middle East, when people say, oh, whether we should be involved or not, this was an attack on America. 33 Americans are dead. Two Americans were just killed by the terrorist. And six more.

are still in hostage. We've had two hostages exchange. We got one out, one American out, that little three-year-old girl, God bless her heart, thank the Lord that she got out. But why have we had two hostage exchanges with six Americans still held in captivity? It's unconscionable. I met their parents. I met their family members.

They are living every parent's worst nightmare. I just, you know, as a mother, I can't think, I mean, God forbid, you know. And also while I was there, of course, meeting with the leadership, one of the most impactful things that I did is I went down to Kafaraza, which is a kibbutz, which is right near Gaza. And we saw Gaza from where we were standing in the kibbutz. And I'm glad they didn't clean it up. They sort of left it as it was that day from what happened as sort of a memorial to the people

that were killed that day. We actually again met the parents of. one man who lost his daughter, he showed us the final text messages with his daughter. And I believe it was her fiance or boyfriend partner. We met another parent whose child is, whose daughter is one of the hostages right now. Doesn't know, obviously, whenever she's going to get her daughter back. And, you know, I just said, as you're going through and you're seeing the bullet holes, You're seeing some of the places that they burn down.

You're just, you're seeing the devastation and hearing the stories. I just pray to silent prayer. I said, God, take me before my child. Please. Just please, you know, it's my worst nightmare. And so every time somebody calls for a ceasefire, the images from Kafarza will be forever burned in my mind and grained in my mind. I don't want innocent civilians to die anywhere.

to think that these people, whether you're in southern Israel, close to Gaza, or whether you're in northern Israel, close to Lebanon and Hezbollah, to think that these people could live in terror from their neighbors, that they could come through and rape and pillage and murder and kill indiscriminately. It is just not acceptable. It's not something that Israel would ever stand for. It's not something that we would ever stand for. You know, just today I was reading about a young man who was in,

the IDF, who was killed on October 7th, and they severed his head. They left his, I believe they left his body in Israel and took his head into Gaza. And Shinbet, according to the report that I read, which is Israel's equivalent of the FBI. Shinbet traced his head and found it in an ice cream shop in Gaza. They had it at a freezer and they were trying to sell it for $10,000. This is who these barbarians are. You know, I don't like to call them animals because I love animals. Animals are wonderful, lovely creatures. These are horrific barbarians who need to be exterminated. You know, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic jihad, people who would behead a soldier and put it in a freezer in an ice cream shop in Gaza. This is who we are dealing with. So every time someone calls for a ceasefire, I'm going to remind them of the severed heads. I'm going to remind them of the women that they're raped so violently that they broke their pelvis. And I'm going to remind them of the children that

were killed and tortured in front of their parents, the parents that were killed and tortured in front of their children. These people, these terrorist groups have to be eradicated. And by the way, when these groups chant death, death to Israel, guess who they chant death to in the next breath, America. You met while you were there with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. How is he viewing the conflict right? now and the path forward. Have any of the objectives changed? No, I don't think so. You know, my heart really went out to him. I mean, all of the leadership that we met with, Herzog, Gantz, Galand, Bibi, you know, they all look like shells of their former selves, the people that I remembered

meeting with traumatized. Of course, how could you not be? You know, what people forget is whenever Israel is attacked, it's not like, God forbid, when we, you know, if we experience a terrorist attack, It's terrible, but it's confined, you know, to that city or to that state. The very existence of the state of Israel is threatened whenever they are attacked, right? You know, it's a tiny country. It's a tiny people. And so when they are attacked, it's existential to their survival. And we, of course, know that more Jews were killed on October 7th than any other day since the Holocaust. And so I know that has to weigh with the leadership.

And so I was, you know, wondering before I went, you know, would there be more of a push to go in and deal with Hezbollah in the north, you know, another terrorist group that's fun, trained and abetted by the Islamic Republic of Iran. The leadership to me was very still focused on Hamas. It was like that was who attacked that day. That's who they hold responsible. And they know that life cannot continue for Israeli citizens while Hamas remains a threat. Yeah. Now, the conversation then often follows after that because I think, you know, so many Americans are with Israel in absolutely Hamas has to be destroyed. But there is that practical question of who rules Gaza, because Israel has said, you know, we're not interested in and ruling Gaza, but that does remain a question.

Did that conversation come up while you were over there? It did. Yes, it did in the sense that the Israeli leadership was very clear. that Gaza and the West Bank have to be demilitarized and de-radicalized. That will take a generation, right? That will take a process. There are, you know, de-radicalization processes. I mean, Saudi Arabia, for example, went through that post-9-11 and the years following because, you know, Al-Qaeda wanted to go after the Saudi leadership as much as they did the United States of America. So there are de-radicalization programs that thing you can put in place. But it's going to take a long time. But yes, de-radicalization, demilitarization.

And, you know, my impression is that the Israeli leadership really doesn't want Mahmoud Abbas and the current Palestinian Authority leadership to stand. I mean, listen, these guys are total failures. You know, I don't know how they could. They were essentially kicked out of Gaza, Abbas's weak and corrupt leader. You know, like the leaders of Hamas, these guys enrich themselves. They enrich their children. You know, so while you're hearing about.

all of the people that, you know, don't have food and water and basic electricity and needs in Gaza, you know, I'd love to know how their leaders became billionaires in that process. Yeah, good question. We're hearing, again, this has been brought up for years, we're hearing people throughout, we need a two-state solution. Is that even on the table in Israel? Are people talking about that? Like, it's any sort of serious solution?

I don't think the political leaders are talking about it right now. I think it's going to take, I mean, listen, you are going to have to eventually get to some sort of a solution. Of course, you will. So does it mean buffer zones, perhaps between, you know, Israel and Gaza? Does it mean an international force comes in? You know, in my mind, the leadership in the Middle East writ large is going to have to be very involved in this. The ugly truth is that none of them wanted to deal with the Palestinians. Go look at the pictures at the Egyptian side of the border with Gaza, right? Go look at the barbed wire fence. You know, when you talk about Gaza being an open-air prison. Well, why is that? Why didn't Egypt open their border with Gaza and, you know,

and let people in, let people go and just to work in Egypt, like, you know, like so many in the West Bank can do in Israel. So the truth is for a long time, leaders in the Middle East were fine with the Palestinian issue being an Israeli problem. And now they're going to have to step up. And they're going to have to be a part of the problem and the solution. Listen, I don't think America should be picking winners and losers in the Middle East. Like, I think if a lot of 20 years have taught us anything. We're not really good at that, right? So I'm looking for Saudi Arabia and other countries, Egypt, you know, UAE, Qatar, like they need to be involved in. Like, you tell us what's going to work for the Palestinians. You tell us who the leaders should be because right now

we keep throwing good money after the bad. And the Gulf countries do, right? They're the ones funding and trying to set up some sort of leadership. So the situation is untenable. the way that it is now. It's untenable not only for Israel, it's untenable for the Palestinian people. And it's untenable to think that the corrupt and failed leaders governing the Palestinian authority could be the same people that could somehow move it forward. You probably need some sort of interim prime minister and the ability then, you know, to, you know, to move forward, you know, maybe eventually elections. But elections aren't going to solve anything, right, until you are able to de-radicalize the place, and you're going to have to go into massive anti-corruption

efforts. You know, all of the Gulf countries should start to hold the Palestinian leadership accountable for what they're doing, you know, with their funds. It's a long and complicated problem, but I do know that we should demand and we should expect more. We should demand more out of the leaders in the Middle East. Like, you don't want American making decisions about what happens? Great. You tell us who's going to step up and lead. How you're going to help with any corruption efforts, how you're going to help with de-radicalization efforts. And the entire place of West Bank and Gaza has to be demilitarized. There's just no other way. And you met with the Saudi Crown Prince while you were in the Middle East. Were you having those kind of conversations

with him of saying, hey, you know, you need to be the one that's really directing and, you know, pulling the U.S. and telling the U.S., hey, this is, you know, these are specific areas that need to be addressed. we discussed all this, but you don't have to pull and prod them. They get it, right? They understand that it's not a good situation either. Remember that Hamas is a designated terrorist organization in Saudi Arabia as well. So they consider them, they also consider them a terrorist group. They also consider them a threat. So, you know, I know the administration is working behind the scenes. We've seen Secretary Blinken talk about this to see if there's still potentially a possible

deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia. A deal would, of course, have to include something for the Palestinians. But I think the Gulf states get it. You know, they know, they see that the leadership has failed the Palestinians. Everybody sees now, you know, what Hamas is capable of doing. And everybody in the Middle East knows, Hamas may have done that to Israel. But, you know, they would, they could be a threat to everybody, right? They're funded and trained in crypt.

the Iranians and the Iranians use these proxy forces throughout the Middle East to wreck havoc, to, you know, disruption. You know, they did not, Iran doesn't want to see the continuance of the Abraham Accords and more countries coming into it, right? They don't want peace. They actually seek the opposite. They seek chaos. Well, Morgan, there is so much more we could talk about from the Houthis and the broader Yemen,

what's happening in the Middle East. But I'm just going to have to direct everyone to, watch, listen to your show on Sundays, the Morgan Ortega's show every Sunday on Sirius X-M-Patriot. Morgan, thank you for your time today. We really appreciate your analysis. Thanks for having me. And with that, that's going to do it for today's episode. If you want to learn more and keep up with what Morgan is doing, you can check out her website. It's Morgan Ortegans, Morgan, O-R-T-A-G-U-S dot com.

That's where you can find all of Morgan's media appearances, her art. articles for social media links. And of course, again, if you want to listen to her show every Sunday, you can find it on Sirius XM Patriot, the Morgan Ortega's show. Make sure to take a minute to subscribe to the Daily Signal podcast today so you never miss out on our new episodes. You can find us across all podcast platforms and take a minute to leave us a five-star rating and review. We'll see you right back here around 5 p.m. for our top news edition. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. Executive producers are Rob Luey and Kate Shrinco. Producers are Virginia

Allen and Samantha Asheras. Sound designed by Lauren Evans, Mark Geiney, and John Pop. To learn more, please visit DailySignal.com.