The Daily Signal - Beheading in France by Islamist Requires Fierce Pushback for Free Speech

Episode Date: October 29, 2020

Earlier this month in France, a teacher who had reportedly shown caricatures of the Islamic prophet Muhammad during a civics class was beheaded by an 18-year-old Chechen refugee, who was subsequently fatally shot by police. The teacher, Samuel Paty, was beheaded on the street by Abdoullakh Anzorov. Robin Simcox, the director of The Counter Extremism Group, which provides practical counter-extremism policy solutions to decision makers, joins the podcast to unpack what happened. We also cover these stories: Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, had a sharp exchange with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey during a Wednesday hearing of the Senate Commerce Committee. Wednesday’s Senate hearing sought to find answers to concerns over how Google, Twitter, and Facebook moderate content on their platforms.  11 people were shot in riots on Tuesday night in Philadelphia.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, October 29th. I'm Virginia Allen. And I'm Rachel Del Judas. Not even two weeks ago in France, a teacher who had reportedly shown caricatures of Muhammad during a civics class was beheaded by an 18-year-old Muslim refugee. What happened? Is it concerning that this attack was over a lesson about freedom of expression? Robin Simcox, director of the Counter- Extremism Group, joins me on the Daily Signal podcast to discuss. And don't forget. If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to leave a review or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now on to our top news. Senator Ted Cruz of Texas had an intense exchange with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey during a Wednesday hearing in the Senate Commerce Committee. The hearing was on Facebook and Twitter's suppression of a New York Post article published October 14th on the business dealings of Hunter Biden, the son of former Vice President Joe Biden. The New York Post piece alleged that an email on what is believed to be the younger Biden's laptop

indicated Hunter Biden had introduced a Ukrainian business executive from Burisma to his dad. Hunter Biden served on the board of the Ukraine-based natural gas company. Here is the exchange between Cruz and Twitter's Dorsey via Laura Ingraham. Mr. Dorsey, who the hell elected you and put you in charge of what the media are allowed to report and what the American people are allowed to hear, and why do you persist in behaving as a democratic super PAC silencing views to the contrary of your political beliefs? Let's give Mr. Dorsey a few seconds to answer that,

and then we'll have to conclude this segment. Well, we're not doing that, and this is why I opened this hearing with calls for more transparency. We realize we need to. earn trust more. We realize that more accountability is needed to show our intentions and to show the outcomes. So I hear the concerns and acknowledge them, but we want to fix it with more transparency. Wednesday's Senate hearing sought to find answers to concerns over how Google, Twitter, and Facebook moderate content on their platforms. Senator Mike Lee, Republican of Utah,

ask the tech leaders if they could name one high-profile person or entity from a liberal ideology who you have censored. Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg was the first to try to answer the question per media research center. Senator, I can get you a list of some more of this, but there are certainly many examples that your Democratic colleagues object to when a fact checker might label something as false. they disagree with or they're not able to. I get that. I get that. I just want to be clear. I'm just asking you if you can name for me one high profile liberal person or company who

you've censored. I understand that you're saying that there are complaints on both sides. But I just want one name of one person or one entity. Senator, I need to think about it and get you more of a list. But there are certainly many, many issues on both sides of the aisle where people think we are making content moderation decisions that they disagree with. Lee responded to Zuckerberg saying, I think everybody on this call could agree that they could identify at least five, maybe ten, maybe more high-profile conservative examples.

11 people were shot in riots on Tuesday night in Philadelphia. The shootings occurred after the police shot and killed a Philadelphia manned. And per NBC Philadelphia, it was unclear if any of the shooting victims were fatally wounded, but some of the gunfire included looters shooting at other looters in the Port Richmond neighborhood, which saw scores of people shatter windows and break into stores along Aramingo Avenue as police officers struggled to contain the chaos following the killing of Walter Wallace Jr. Philadelphia Police Department sources on the scene told NBC10. And in New York City, 32 people were arrested for rioting,

vandalizing police cards, breaking windows, and setting fires and protests of Wallace's death. On Wednesday, acting Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida, warned of an increase of election interference from foreign adversaries. The bulk of disinformation attacks prepared by our adversaries were designed for the days before and just after Election Day. Rubio tweeted, adding, they may come faster than they can be spotted and called out. So word to the wise, the more outlandish the claim, the likelier its foreign influence. Chad Wolf, Secretary of Homeland Security, also raised concerns over election interference on Tuesday, saying on CBS News that we are almost

a week out from Election Day. So this is the prime opportunity for any adversary, whether it's Russia, whether it's Iran, or it's a cyber actor. The FBI and the Department of Justice have announced indictments against eight people working for China to intimidate dissenters around the world. According to a statement from the DOJ, a complaint and arrest warrants were unsealed today in federal court in Brooklyn, charging eight defendants with conspiring to act in the United States as illegal agents of the People's Republic of China. Six defendants also face related charges of conspiring to commit interstate and international stalking. The defendants allegedly acting at the direction and under the control of PRC government officials conducted surveillance of and engaged in a campaign to harass, stalk, and coer certain residents of the United States

to return to the PRC as part of a global, concentrated, and extra-legal repatriation effort known as Operation Fox Hunt. Now stay tuned for my conversation with Robin Simcox on the French teacher who was beheaded by an 18-year-old Muslim refugee. Hey you. Yeah, I'm talking to you, the one who isn't planning to vote. Nobody wants to be on the bench when the game is on the line. So why would you stay home this election day? We're in the fourth quarter and the clock is ticking. It's the bottom of the ninth with the winning run on base. You get the picture. Your country is counting on you. There's too much at stake to sit this one out. So get in the game and make sure you vote early or on Tuesday. The Heritage Foundation is responsible for the content. of this ad. I'm joined today on the Daily Signal podcast by Robin Simcox. He's the director of the Counter-Extremism Group, which provides practical counter-extremism policy solutions to decision-makers. Robin was formerly a colleague of mine at the Heritage Foundation. Robin, it's great to have you back on the Daily Signal podcast. Thank you so much. Great to be with you, Rachel. Well, it's great to have you back with us. I'd like to talk to you today about something really tragic that happened recently in

France where a teacher who had reportedly shown characters of Muhammad during a civics class was beheaded. Can you tell us about what happened? Yeah, this is a murder that took a place in France where a teacher called Samuel Patty had shown pupils in his civics class cartoons of Muhammad. It was on a discussion about freedom of expression. Muslim students were given the option not to attend that class. But rumours began to fly around, I think, within some of Francis Muslim communities about the fact that this had taken place. There started to be a bit of an online campaign against Mr. Patti by some of the more radical elements within those communities. And then somebody called Abullah Ansarov, who was an 18-year-old Russian Chechen, took it upon

himself to act out against Mr. Patty and brutally murdered him and beheaded him on the street. Ansaroff was in contact with an associate from in Syria, so there may have been an

international dimension to this terrorist attack that is being fleshed out. But yeah, it's obviously an extraordinarily tragic and grotesque thing to happen to France and has prompted a whole new conversation in that country about Islamism and the values of the Republic and what should be done to fight back, essentially.

Well, before you go back to what happened, I'm just curious, your personal reaction. When this news broke, were you surprised? And what was your reaction? I was not shocked because it wasn't a surprise to me that there was radicalized people within France who would be willing to carry out that kind of act, because unfortunately there is, and not just France in but obviously across other parts of Europe as well. But, I mean, we are in a very severe situation here where a civilian can be beheaded on the street of a major country like France,

major European power. And over something, I mean, we have to remember to put this in context. This is freedom of speech. These are cartoons. This is a very, very basic test, I think. this is not a the freedom to the freedom to offend is is sacred um and the idea that you would shut down freedom of speech over the possibility of of offending someone's religious beliefs in France above any other country which is so um obviously dedicated to the secular ideal

it's just a completely unacceptable state of affairs and so you you're having a debate in France, which is, I think, is kind of unique to it because, of course, we've had the Charlie Ebdo January 2015 terrorist attack where staff members at that magazine that had published cartoons of Mohammed were murdered by terrorists. And so it's one of those situations where you can be, you're personally shocked and appalled at the incident, but of course in the broader context of what's happening in France and what's happening in Europe, it's not that surprising. Well, as you mentioned, Robin, this happened over a teacher that had shown these caricatures, and as you mentioned, too, and I wasn't aware of this fact that Muslim students were allowed to be excused from that class if they wanted. But as you've detailed a little bit, just talking about how this was something, it was a conversation about the freedom of expression, is it especially concerning to that this attack happened over a conversation that was about how people should be able to freely express? themselves and their beliefs.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think that the fact that this attack took place and the fact that there was this campaign against Mr. Patti by some within the local community, it exactly proves the point, of course, he was trying to make, which is that freedom of speech is sacred. It can't be shut down by the assassins veto, which is essentially what happened with the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, where there wasn't many publications both here in. Europe or in America that was willing to publish the Charlie Hebdo cartoons after the terrorist attack took place. People were scared off, to be honest. And what Mr. Patty was obviously trying to do was kickstart that conversation in his civics class around the importance of freedom

of expression. And the fact that the result of that was his grizzly murder by a radicalized 18-year-old, precisely proves the point that this is a very, very severe problem we have in Europe. And some values that once looked very settled, very fundamental values, are all of a sudden up for grabs again, because the defence of free speech has not been sufficiently robust in Europe over the past 15 years or so. And it's about time that we began to pay attention to this debate more because this kind of thing is exactly what is the mislike,

Anzorov, the murder of Samuel Patti. These are exactly the things they're trying to shut down. They're trying to shut down criticism of belief. They're trying to, criticism of religious belief. They're trying to essentially impose blasphemy laws on France. And obviously that is something that not just French citizens, but all of us should be trying to push back against. What has been the response number one of the French people

and the number two of the French government? Well, I think it's been quite a clarifying moment because the support in France, I sense that there is not, thankfully there's no compromise here from the French people. There has been a great outpouring of support for Mr. Patti, a protest and demonstrations to, prove that France is not going to be cowed by this kind of attack.

Certainly the French government have been quite unrelenting in their response. I mean, Macron was already talking about, he's in the past referred to this idea of Islamist separatism in France, this idea of this clash between Islamist values and that of the French state. And there's a reason, of course, that these conversations have been taking place before. and that's because France has consistently been hit with terrorist attacks over the last five years or so, especially. ISIS targeted France more than any other country. And so the French government have been quite active.

They shut down a pro-Hamas group that was tangentially linked to the murder of Mr. Patti. It was a tangential link, but there was a link there. They closed down a radical mosque. They've carried out of various raids on Israel. Islamist networks, and they've tried to show, essentially, I think some of the actions have taken have been an attempt to show that the rules of the game have changed, which is the sort of language. You often hear tough language from politicians after terrorist attacks that aren't always followed up with actions. I think France, the French government, are determined

to make sure this isn't just tough talk, but they actually do something about it and how successful that'll be remains seen. Well, the NPR had reported that nine people were in custody over the shooting. What is the update on the whole case itself? To be seen, I think that there is, it'll take a while to unpack exactly what happened and the extent to which Ansarov, the terrorist, had assistance. For example, there is some suggestion that one of his associates drove him to a shot, to acquire the knife. There is another suggestion that another of his associates drove him

to the location that he carried out the murder. I think at the moment they are denying this, saying that this was a, they didn't, that, that Anzharov had misled them, that they didn't know this is what he was going to do. So there's all sorts of things that, but the investigation will have to get to the bottom of. And the others he also need to get him to the bottom of the Syria link, which is the individual that Anzorov was in. contact with was based in Idlib, which is a hotspot for a lot of jihadi groups in Syria, and a lot of bands are of social media and internet accounts and history demonstrated a support for various jihadi groups, including groups linked to al-Qaeda. So it's going to take a while

to unpack this. Often you do get, after an attack has taken place, to please cast and a white net and arrest a lot of people that don't ultimately end up getting charged. With this case, we'll just have to keep an eye on it on the days and weeks ahead. Well, Robin, would you call this in active terrorism? And I know we've talked a little bit about this during our conversation, but in so many news articles about this, that it's not a term or a word that's readily brought up. So I'm curious how you would classify it and then your thoughts on media and their lack of using this word to describe the situation. Yeah, I think it's a clear act of terrorism. It is an attempt to bring about political change essentially by cowing a certain part of the civilian population in the country. I think that there is little, there should be little doubt really about the nature of what is going on here. The fact that,

any media will unwillingness to use the word terrorism. It's a shame if that's the editorial decision that's been made because they fear that I don't, I mean, obviously the editors would have to speak for themselves as to why they wouldn't describe it's terrorism or why they'd be unwilling to go down that room. I do think it's interesting that you see very quickly in certain media outlets, the story pivots so quickly

from the incident to what the hypothetical backlash can be. I've seen this in a couple of the US publications where there almost seems to be as much emphasis on the potential for French government overreach in their response to the attack as there is in the actual attack itself. And I think we've got to be really, we've really have more clarity about this. I mean, our emphasis here and our focus should be, what is it that drives somebody to commit such an appalling and brutal murder over such a, I mean, again, this is over cartoons. I mean, there's something, if it wasn't so tragic, there'd be something vaguely

ridiculous about it. There's not enough, we don't spend enough time interrogating that specific issue, I think, about why is this, how could this be happening in 2020? And why are we not, Why is there not more emphasis being placed on coming up with solutions? I mean, it's a daunting task. I get that. And it's a intimidating one. And I understand why people feel helpless in some ways about dealing with it. Because, you know, in various forms, the US and its allies have been trying to respond to the issue of Islam's terrorism in a concerted way since 9-11.

here we are in October 2020, and it feels at times like precious little progress has been made. That doesn't mean that we can turn away from the issue. We've just, we've got to keep going and we've got to carry on. Well, lastly, Robin, what would your message be to leaders in France as well as leaders across the country on the importance of free speech, given the sort of situation and what can happen when that's not safeguarded? Yeah, I mean, the easy thing to do, and you understand the impulse, but I go back to this idea of the assassins veto again, because of course, you can imagine the next time another teacher in another country or in France itself is thinking about the next civics class they take, whether, how they're going to discuss freedom of speech issues. of course you'd imagine this would scare people even more about the idea of showing images that may cause offence to others. All I can say is that we all have to, we'll have to share the risk on this. We have to be, I think, as a broader society, absolutely unflinching in our unwillingness to compromise on very fundamental values. Free speech isn't up for debate.

It's not something we're going to trade away. It's not something we're going to give up, or at least it's something we shouldn't trade away and we shouldn't give up. Because it's the right thing to do. Freedom of expression isn't something that we're going to give up because radicalized people like Ansaroff are willing to go to such grotesque length to shut it down. So I think the response from the French people has been understandable. And I hope that the commitments of free speech from,

from France, but also France's neighbors and allies and others, remain steadfast. Well, Robin, thank you so much for joining us on the Daily Signal podcast. It's always great having you with us. Thanks so much for having me. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast. You can find the Daily Signal podcast on Google Play, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and IHeartRadio. Please be sure to leave us to a review and a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage other. to subscribe. Thanks again for listening and we'll be back with you all tomorrow. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage

Foundation. It is executive produced by Kate Trinko and Rachel Del Judas, sound design by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney, and John Pop. For more information, visitdailySignal.com.