The Daily Signal - Best of 2023: Baroness Cox on One Woman’s Mission to Help the Persecuted

Episode Date: December 29, 2023

Between Christmas and New Years, The Daily Signal is looking back at the most popular interviews from the year. Enjoy episode four of our "Best of 2023" series! Baroness Caroline Cox has a long history of service in public office, but her passion for justice has led her not only to Great Britain’s House of Lords but to war-torn, poverty-stricken nations around the world.  “The mission is to work for people who are suffering oppression and persecution in areas which are largely unreached by the major aid organizations like the [United Nations],” Cox says of the Humanitarian Aid Relief Trust, which she leads. Cox, who joins this episode of “The Daily Signal Podcast,” says her organization intentionally goes where others can’t because the U.N., for example, “can only go places with permission of a sovereign government.”  The work is “risky” but also a “privilege,” says Cox, who is an independent member of the House of Lords who served as deputy speaker there from 1985 to 2005. “The majority we work with happen to be Christians because Christians are suffering a lot of persecution around the world today,” Cox says. The Humanitarian Aid Relief Trust also works with Muslims who are suffering in Sudan’s Blue Nile State, as well as with Buddhists in Myanmar (formerly Burma), she notes.  On the podcast, Cox also talks about her fight for the rights of Muslim women who are forced to live under Sharia law in the United Kingdom, as well as her advocacy work for persecuted religious groups across the globe. She also describes the response in the U.K. to the Israel-Hamas war.  Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Friday, December 29th. I'm Virginia Allen. Welcome to the final edition of the Daily Signal's Best of 2020, podcast interview series. This week, we brought you the best of the Daily Signal podcast from the year. And today, we are ending with one of my personal favorite shows from the year. In November, I had the opportunity to sit down with Baroness Caroline Cox. She has a long history of service in public office including in Great Britain's House of Lords. But her greatest passion is serving war-torn and poverty-stricken nations all around the world.

Baroness Cox joins us to share about her work with the humanitarian aid relief trust and why she's so passionate about going to the hardest and darkest places where often the government can't go. Stay tuned for our conversation. But before we get to that, I do want to take a minute as we near the end of the year to explain how you can be even more so a part of our Daily Signal family and a part of our Heritage Foundation family. As many of you are aware of, the Daily Signal is the news outlet of the Heritage Foundation. And the Daily Signal podcast is a product of the Heritage Foundation, which is one of the world's most influential and trusted think tanks. We've been operating

since 1973. Heritage Works in Washington, D.C., and across the country to develop conservative policy solutions to the most critical issues facing America today. And those are issues that we then often talk about right here on the Daily Signal podcast, sometimes with Heritage Foundation experts. And Heritage is fighting every day in a war against failed leftist policies that threatened to destroy our country. And we need your help to keep on doing just that. So please consider making a tax-deductible gift in support of the Heritage Foundation

and the Daily Signal before December 31st. If you want to give, just go to heritage.org. Again, that's heritage.org. Together, we can take back America. It is my distinct privilege and honor today to be joined by the Honorable Baroness Cox of Queensbury. Baroness Cox, thank you so much for being here today. It's a great privilege.

Thank you for inviting me. And it's a deep opportunity. we do a lot of humanitarian work, and I always appreciate the opportunity to share the pain and the passion of what we do. Yes, and that comes through so clearly in your work, and I'm really looking forward to discussing that with you today. You have an impressive resume and an impressive career. You served as deputy speaker of the House of Lords from 1985 to 2005. You currently serve as an independent member of the House of Lords. You also currently serve as a vice president of the Royal College of Nursing.

You have done extensive humanitarian work, which we're going to talk about here in a moment. What brings you to Washington, D.C. this week? I think to share some of the pain and the passion of what we do with our humanitarian aid work with people who are suffering on their front lines of faith and freedom, and to share that and hopefully to generate some interest and some engagement in the concerns of which we are involved. Faith and freedom, so closely aligned. Two subjects are very, very closely aligned. As we dive in and as we talk today, I do want to begin by asking you just a little bit of news related to current events here in America following Hamas' attack on Israel.

There's just been so many conversations around support for Israel and Palestine. And I think many Americans have been very surprised to see a lot of pro-Palestine support and demonstrations and pro-Palestine support. protests. What's the atmosphere? What's the situation like in the UK right now? Well, I think probably very similar to what you describe here in the United States. Our official policy is generally supporting Israel because Israel did suffer the first major onslaught in the Arab bombardment way back at the beginning, which triggered the whole tragedy and the current conflict. And so there is obviously a lot of concern for Israel, but then one has to be concerned for people who are suffering in any conflict situation.

And so there'd be a humanitarian concern of what's happening on both sides. Certainly. And that passion, that heart of yours, that concern for the suffering, that is something that compelled you to, in the past, to introduce a law in the UK, to introduce a bill, rather, that would outlaw Shereal Law and Shereal Courts in the UK. Speak a little bit to that and why that was something that you felt was so important. important to do? Well, when I was appointed to the House of Lords, I wasn't into politics. I was the first Baroness I'd ever met. So it's quite a shock. I used the privilege to be able to speak in the British Parliament, in the House of Lords. And it occurred to me, it's a wonderful place to be a voice for people whose voices are not heard. So a lot of our humanitarian

work, I set up my own small not-for-profit humanitarian aid relief, trust working for people suffering oppression and persecution, were largely unreached by the major aid organizations for political reasons or security reasons. But there's another side to that of trying to be a voice for people whose voices are not heard. And one of my concerns has been the plight of many Muslim women in the United Kingdom who have marriages which are not legally registered. Now, I didn't see you can do away with Sharia completely.

What I am concerned is where women have Sharia marriages which are not legally registered and then they're vulnerable to all the kind of Muslim traditions. If you have a Sharia marriage, you can be divorced. The husband just said, I divorced you three times, and you are divorced in the religious context there. And so I've suffered alongside, I've worked with Muslim women who are suffering in these situations. And it occurred to me, we need to do something about that. And so I've introduced a private members bill, which is trying to make sure that all religious marriages are legally registered.

and then the Muslim women have the protections of a legally registered marriage and not just the lack of protection in purely a Sharia marriage. And so I've got a private member's bill, which is trying to make sure that Sharia marriages are legally registered. I may so have been fighting this one for quite a long time, and sadly have not made much progress. But at least it raises the issue. And I know that many Muslim women are very grateful for this initiative. I just wish we could turn it into law. Yeah. When you speak to those Muslim women about this issue, what do they say to you?

Well, they're often desperate. Because if you don't have a legally registered marriage, then as I see, the husband just divorced you. We're saying I divorce you three times, and they are left divorced with no rights. And very often then they lose all the rights which normally go with the marriage, financial rights and other rights which you would have. And so they're left totally vulnerable. And it is a... situation which really we should not allow in a country like the United Kingdom. So that's why we're trying very hard to protect those Muslim women from having a marriage which is not legally registered. And you mentioned that it's been a long fight. Where does the bill stand right now?

It's just there. It's on the statute book. But sadly, we've, he's been for quite a few years. We have got a bit further than that. We've had what's called a second reading. Once it did get through, all the House of Lords and to get through the House of Commons. But again, the parliamentary program was so tight that it didn't get through to serious consideration and becoming voted on and becoming potentially law. So there is a long way to go. And in the meantime, the Muslim people are left very vulnerable. Well, as we were just talking about before we hit record, you were saying that you have a real passion for the people that maybe are not getting attention.

in the news and that aren't on the front of every newspaper that maybe we're not hearing too much about. And that passion for people, specifically underserved communities, has led you into humanitarian work. You are involved in humanitarian aid around the world. You are the chief executive of heart, which stands for a humanitarian aid relief trust. What is your mission? The mission is to work for people who are suffering oppression and persecution in areas

which are largely unreached by the major aid organizations like the UN because they can only go places with permission of a sovereign government. If a sovereign government doesn't give them permission, then they can't go. And so the people are left so vulnerable. Well, there may be another reason why they could be left vulnerable, and that is for security reasons, because very often they're in war zones or conflict zones, and so aid organizations may not be able to reach them for conflict security reasons. So our little organization, which I identified, Heart, Humanitarian Aid Relief Trust,

We are really committed to reaching people suffering oppression and persecution in those sort of areas to provide aid and advocacy. We work with local partners and they're the real heroes and heroines on the front lines of faith and freedom. It may be risky visiting them, but it's a privilege to be alongside them. And we will work with whatever their faith tradition. The majority of people we work with happen to be Christians because Christians are suffering a lot of persecution around the World Day. But we do work with Muslims who are suffering in Blue Nile State in Sudan, and they're suffering quite a lot from the pretty aggressive policies, the cartoon policy in Sudan.

We work a Buddhist who are suffering in, we call it Burma, not Myanmar, because the local people prefer that, but Myanmar. And they're up in the middle of areas, and the aid organizations that go through the capital don't really reach them and may well get taken off and abused by other people. So we work with local partners, and they're the real heroes and herons on the front lines of freedom. These are hard areas that you all are going into and often dangerous.

What are kind of those practical needs that you all are bringing and that you're trying to meet? And then also are there spiritual needs you're trying to meet, you know, support for trauma these folks have maybe endured. What are the resources that you're hoping to bring? Well, we always ask our local partners what their priority is. We don't tell them. We don't ask them. And so they identify their priorities. We're not a huge organization.

And so they will, if you like, sort of shape their priorities, the kind of resources we can offer. But just two examples, when we work with our friends and Buddhist friends in Shan State in Sudan, their priorities for maternal and child health care. because they have a lot of people living in remote areas. They don't have adequate maternal and child health. And so we have a very, very effective training program for local people in maternal and child health. Or going to Nigeria, we work in Middle Belt in Nigeria, where there are a lot of attacks going on.

They don't hit the headlines. But the Islamist Fulani, who are attacking the Christians, predominantly Christian villages and communities, I mean to say, I would make a distinction between Islam and Islamism. Islam are Muslim friends. Islamism is a kind of ideology between ISIS and Al-Qaeda,

which is brutal and vicious, and it's that, which is behind the Islamist Fulani in Nigeria, and they are attacking and destroying villages, and one-and-half million people have had to flee for their lives and are living in displaced people, in dire conditions. And we always ask people, what's your priority? And they say, please, education for our lives. children. They don't have education. They never have a future. So we do provide education

supplies for the displaced people in Middle Belt, in Nigeria. And we've reached thousands of children, which you could see the smiles on their faces when education supplies are come. And so it's very poignant to be just diversifying into health care provisions for those people who are displaced. So that's an example of how we listen to the local people and respond to their priorities. Are those individuals, are they primarily living? in refugee camps or where are these areas where they settled that you all are coming in and trying to bring that education? Some are in refugee camps.

Some are just out in, you know, in the community, the phrase the bush. Yeah. And living in dire situations and they really are desperate people. Doesn't hit the headlines? It doesn't in the UK. I don't know about the United States. But this suffering goes on. And as I say, we like to be there with aid and advocacy.

That's the aid side. but also being a small humanitarian organization, you believe in being a voice for people whose voices are not heard and being their voice in trying to challenge authorities and governments to support those who are suffering injustice. And so you will try to be their voice, whether it's in Nigeria or in Burma or Myanmar, trying to mobilize official support for them.

And that's quite a challenge, but you can't not do it. Who are the faces that you carry with you when you go on these trips and you talk to those who face persecution and the mothers and the fathers who are asking for education for their children? Are there certain people that you think about often that you've met on those trips? Oh, yes. We have raised more organizations. We do go in person. There's only five of us in the heart itself. But we also take friends and colleagues who share the same passion. And you just meet such dignity in those areas. I'll just give one example.

And that is, I came back to the little Armenian land of Nekhanarabakh, which has been suffering at the hands of Azerbaijan with attempted ethnic cleansing. But I remember being there, and I visited a village, which had been attacked by the Islamist Azerbaijan forces, and they destroyed everything, and the homes were still burning. and the bodies had been attacked and decapitated bodies was still on the ground and it was just hell on earth

but I met a young mother who'd managed to escape and she survived but I think 14 of her family being killed and she was just left absolutely destitute and desolate and desperate but I just said do you have a message to the world you like to tell the world

and I'll never forget she just said I want to say thank you I want to say thank you that you have come you've been with us in these terrible times, you've had the courage to come, I want to say thank you. Well, I don't think thank you the words that would come to my mind. I just lost so many of my family and seen the suffering around me. That's the dignity of the people, and I could give so many examples of dignity.

Really powerful. It's very eye-opening and humbling, I imagine. Very humbling, very inspiring, but hugely humbling. Very humbling. Why do you think we don't see a little bit more attention on these issues in news or or discussed among political leaders? I think it goes back to that key word interests. Our governments have interests.

And I just give one example. I've given a lot of this in parliament itself, so it's not a secret. But it just summarizes the whole concept of interest. Because it was when I was in Nagorno-Karabakh, when Azerbaijan was dropping cluster bombs on civilians, which is against international law. And I had photographs of children

who were shredded by cluster bombs. And I took these photographs to a senior person in our foreign office, and I said, will British government make representations the government of Azerbaijan to stop dropping cluster bombs on civilians? It's against international law. And the answer, no country is interest in other countries, only interests.

We have oil interest in Azerbaijan. Good morning. Wow. And I think that summarises really the essence of where the interest are and where you can hopefully elicit some support, whether it's aid or advocacy, and where you are really just crying into the wilderness because the people have interests. That is very telling.

Very telling indeed. What goes into preparing for one of these trips? I mean, when you're entering areas that are so dangerous, what are the factors that you're having to take into account and how do you go about planning a trip when you're going in sometimes to conflict areas? Well, we work with local partners, and they're the real heroes and heroines. So they organize the visits. Now, it doesn't do away with the danger, but it does mean that there's as much preparation as possible that it goes into the visit

and as much, shall I say, readiness to try to respond under attack. I remember going into Sudan some years back when the regime in Khartoum was attacking its own people in Blunar State. and they came with aerial bombardment and we were going in an open-topped Jeep and the people had warned us and they said if you see an aircraft coming just get out and run and hide and so we wore sort of colours

and cocky colours that would merge with the bush we were hiding in the bush and when a bomber came we just ran and hid and you could hear the plane circling over but I lived to tell another day. That's unbelievable. It's a privilege. They're living it all the time. We come and go. But they live it. It is their life and it's so important to be alongside them. Then to come back and be able to say, you know, I've been, I've seen, this is how it really is. So we're not just reading a report.

No, but we're telling it how it really is with the people. And we'll say, what's your message, what you want us to say. And therefore, we're their voice. And what a privilege that is. That is a privilege. Of course, tragically, Things are very tense right now in Sudan. There's been much conflict over the past year there. What has your organizations, what has Hart's involvement been in Sudan over the past year? How are things on the ground right now? Well, we work both in – there are three areas.

We work in Sudan and in South Sudan with a lot of problems. And then there's a disputed territory between the two called Abbey, which doesn't on the headlines very much, but it is a disputed territory. And that's suffering too. and it's just, well, we're there. We try to provide the aid that they need. But also, I used to be there many times in the days when slavery was being inflicted by the regime in Hortoum on the peoples of South Sudan. And I remember last time I was in Abia, between the two Sudan, South Sudan.

And it was heartbreaking. The first morning we were there, the governor said, please come, there's been a massacre. And this is two or three years ago now because I haven't been able to go back during COVID. but it was the aftermath of an massacre and the homes were still burning, the bodies were still on the ground and it was hell on earth. Next morning, it was slightly happier,

I was there and I heard a voice saying, are you Lady Cox? And I said, well, I think so, yes. And this is a lovely young guy. He said, I wanted to meet you all my life because you rescued me from slavery. And I always wanted me to say, thank you for rescuing me from slavery.

And a lot of other young people around here who'd like to meet you to say thank you too. What a privilege. What a privilege. You never forget that. No, you don't. But what a privilege just to being able to be part of that. How did you first get into doing aid work? I mean, this is just incredible and beautiful hearing these stories.

How did you get to do this? Well, it's a long story very short. I'm 86 years old. It's a long story. It's a very short. But I always said a nurse and a social scientist by intention, to baroness by astonishment. It was not into politics.

I was appointed to politics for long battles I'd fought for academic freedom in another story, another time. But I wrote a book about it with two colleagues called The Rape of Reason. And that hit the headlines. And there's a very famous writer at that time who had op-ed articles in the Times newspaper. And I was getting a kid ready for school, the day the book was due to be published and I was quite nervous going back to face the music

and my late husband called up and said Bernard Levin is on the phone and said I just read a book I think it's the most important book for the future of democracy I've read for the last 10 years and get to cover it in tomorrow's Times so in the op-ed page

and the Times newspaper and the title in all its brutality the making of an intellectual concentration camp and at the end he said it's such an important book for the future of democracy and going to devote my my remaining two articles this week to discussing it. Wow.

So he gave us a trilogy, three articles. He'd only done before for Mozart and Sojnitzin's being good company. Goodness. I think it's pointed to the House of Lords directly. But being there, I thought, what a privilege to be here. And how do I use this privilege? Then the idea came, it's a wonderful place to be a voice where people's voices are not heard.

But in order to do that, I've got to go and hear the voices. I've got to be alongside them. And so Hart, our organization, you went into an aid relief trust was founded to work with people's suffering oppression and persecution, largely unreached by the major aid organizations. And you go there, and they're usually in war zones and suffering conflict and persecution. So they need both aid and advocacy. So I set up heart in order to fulfill that mission. You have done so many things in your life. What, as we close here, I'd love to ask you what advice you would give to.

to young people like myself who are young in our careers, we have a passion for truth, we have a passion for making an impact in this world. When you're asked for advice, what do you share with young people? Well, I think each person has their own individual life story. They're individual talents and gifts and things that they have to offer. And so I wouldn't dream to tell anyone what is right for them to do.

I just say there's a very important phrase, I think, that, well, I believe in God, but doesn't need God. God doesn't want our ability. He wants our availability. And if we can be available and responsive to the needs that are going on around the world, then I think we'll see fairly quickly an area where we can actually be involved. And in heart, we try to combine both aid and advocacy. But both are needed.

Some people may focus on aid. Some may focus on advocacy, hugely important. We happen to combine the two. But I think it's to be available for people who are suffering and very often who are suffering in places not being reached by the international media, not being reached by international aid organizations, not very much, and just be available for them. It's very practical and beautiful.

For those who would like to support the work that you're doing with heart, how can they do that? Well, we'd have to hear from them. You can find it on the website. It's called Humanitarian Aid Relief Trust. and you'll find the website and the address there. We'd love to hear from them and just to share with them and answer any questions they might have. Excellent. Baroness Cox, thank you so much for your time today.

This has been a joy. It's been a joy for me to share the pain and passion. So thank you for giving me an opportunity to do that. I really appreciate it. Our privilege. Thank you. My privilege. Thank you.

Thank you. We are going to leave it right there for today. Thank you so much for making the Daily Signal podcast a part. of your Christmas holiday in between Christmas and New Year's here. Thank you for being a part of this series and for catching some of our favorite and your favorite interviews from the year. We do not have a podcast on Monday. There will not be a morning or evening show in honor of New Year's. We hope you all have a joy-filled New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. Have a wonderful weekend. Stay safe out there. We will be back with our top news show next week, starting on, well, actually, we don't know

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