The Daily Signal - Best of 2023: ’Tucker,’ the Biography by Chadwick Moore

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

Between Christmas and New Years, The Daily Signal is looking back at the most popular interviews from the year. Enjoy episode three of our "Best of 2023" series! Chadwick Moore appeared on the final episode of “Tucker Carlson Tonight” on that fateful night in April, just days before Fox News abruptly canceled the show April 24. Carlson and Moore didn’t know it would their last time on Fox News, but it makes Moore’s biography of Carlson all the most interesting—and fortuitous. Moore is the author of “Tucker,” a biography that’s available for pre-order ahead of its Aug. 1 publication by All Seasons Press. Long before taping that interview with Carlson, Moore began work on his biography. It tells the story of the former CNN and MSNBC host who anchored the top-rated primetime show on Fox News for seven years. But the book is about more than Carlson’s TV career. Moore spoke to The Daily Signal about the hundreds of hours he spent interviewing Carlson and others who have influenced his life. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, December 28th. I'm Virginia Allen and welcome back to the Daily Signal's Best of 2020 podcast series. This week, we are bringing you all of the best shows from the year. These are our favorites. They're your favorites. And I am really excited for this conversation today. You know, few people were talked about more in 2023 than Tucker Carlson.

So it's no surprise that Rob Bluey's conversation with biographer Chadwick more on his new book, Tucker, was among the most popular interviews from this year. But before we get to that, I do want to take a minute as we near the end of the year to explain how you can be even more so a part of our Daily Signal family and a part of our Heritage Foundation family. As many of you are aware of, the Daily Signal is the news outlet of the Heritage Foundation. And The Daily Signal podcast is a product of the Heritage Foundation, which is one of the world's most influential and trusted think tanks. We've been operating since 1973. Heritage works in Washington, D.C., and across the country to develop conservative policy solutions to the most critical issues facing America today. And those are issues that we then often talk about right here on the Daily Signal podcast, sometimes with Heritage Foundation experts.

And Heritage is fighting every day in a war against failed leftist policies that threatened to destroy our country. And we need your help to keep on doing just that. So please consider making a tax-deductible gift in support of the Heritage Foundation and the Daily Signal before December 31st. If you want to give, just go to heritage.org. Again, that's heritage.org. Together, we can take back America. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get to Rob Louis' conversation with Chadwick more as they discuss the effects of Tucker Carlson on the media landscape and his new book, Tucker. Welcome to The Daily Signal, Chadwick.

Hey, thanks for having me on. Great to be here. Well, congratulations on this fantastic book. I couldn't be better timed. Obviously, you did not know on April 21st when you appeared with Tucker on the show that what would happen a few days later with Foxx. News. But it's a book that you began working on a long time before that interview took place, and we're grateful that you're joining us today to talk about it. Yeah, thanks. That was Tucker's last show on Fox, and we started this book over a year ago, as you said, and we had no idea what was about to happen that Monday. No one on the show did at all either. Well, take us back to your connection to Tucker Carlson. How did you first meet him, and when did this relationship begin? Sure. So I was a regular guest on the show for basically the entire run of the show.

And my first appearance was February 2017. I'd written an article in the New York Post coming out as a conservative. At the time, I was working in liberal media, magazines and newspapers. I was writing for the New York Times. I was writing for various other places. And I just got so fed up with what I was seeing in the media that I wrote a piece. I didn't think anyone would read it and just sort of clearing the air. I didn't want anyone to think that I was like these other people, like my colleagues,

in that being totally Trump deranged and, and pushing all of this fake news and really unconcerned with freedom of the press or freedom of speech or genuine inquiry or curiosity, which I always thought journalists were supposed to have. And Tucker's people got wind of that piece and they invited me on his show. And after that, I was just a regular. That's sort of how I got to know him. You know, it sounds like your story is like so many other guests who have appeared on his program over the years. He was always looking for people who maybe went outside, even at Fox of your typical kind of booking. And so I'm grateful to hear that his team found you. When it came to the biography, though, how did you approach that topic with him?

Did you pitch him on the idea? Did he approach you about the idea? What was the origin of that? Yeah. So my publisher, All Seasons Press, approached me and they said, you know, we want to do, this was early last spring. We know, we want to do a book about Tucker Carlson. We feel he's the most important and influential voice in American politics. And we want you to write it. I was, you know, very, very honored and very flattered. And I first said, you know, I don't really think Tucker's going to be into that. Like, I'm a guest on his show. I, like, is this a little weird? I don't know. And let me, let me ask him and see what he thinks. So I called him up. And at first, he said, you know, he said, oh, you know, I'm not very interesting. No one wants to read a book about me. I'm a really boring guy. And, you know, I, he's like, I don't really think that's a good idea. And I said, yeah, I don't think you're a boring guy. I think millions of people would disagree. agree, but I respect that. And as we were about to hang up, he just started talking and he was saying, you know, boy, I read your columns all the time and like, you're a really talented writer. And he started talking about columns I'd written years ago that that he remembered. And I was so flattered by

that. I didn't even know he read my work. And occasionally, actually, you would like text me to read something. But, and he sort of talked himself into it and said, well, yeah, you know, let's do it. Like, I think it'd be fun. And you're a good writer. And, uh, I'm, and you're a good writer. And, uh, I respect you and stuff like that. So that was also flattering. And after that, we were just off to the races. And we started working on it immediately after that. Well, again, the book is called Tucker. It's a biography of Tucker Carlson. Chadwick, what can readers expect when they open this book? Well, I really wanted to get, you know, to write about who he is as a man, as a human being, who he is as off camera, what he's like to work with. and also his really pinned out his entire history, his entire career, and also, you know, his childhood, his high school years, his college years. And even beyond that, you know,

his father, Dick was his greatest, continues to be his greatest mentor and inspiration. So I write a lot about Dick's life, about his childhood. And then even going as far back into the family history of when they immigrated to this country, whose ancestors were, up until two weeks after his show was taken off the air, that's sort of where we end the book. I got to interview him twice after his show was taken off and updated the book for that content. But I hope that they really get a sense of, you know, not just his political beliefs, which everyone knows pretty much where he stands on everything, but just who this guy is, where he came from, what motivates him, like, who is he as a man?

How does he operate in the world and not just the person that millions of people were watching on television every night? And I understand that Tucker gave you unprecedented access not only to interview him, but his family, coworkers, and other acquaintances and even some adversaries who he's clashed with over the years. What was that process like as you went through those interviews and really heard the stories of Tucker Carlson's life? Yeah, the hardest part of this book was getting liberals to talk to me, even people who spend their careers and even had full-time jobs just writing hit pieces about Tucker Carlson. Of course, they ran and hid whenever they were asked for an interview.

It was telling also that a lot of people who he actually still has friendly relationships with wouldn't want to appear in this book because they think he's so toxic, which is sad and just speaks to how spineless and callous so many people are in media and politics. But I think it obviously plenty of people to talk to me, hundreds of hours of interviews. And it was great really speaking to his wife, Susie. She's lovely. They've been together since they were 15 years old, which is amazing. They were married when they were 21. and, you know, hearing stories from her, also his dad Dick, as I mentioned before, because family is really what's most important to Tucker Carlson, and it has been for a long time. And that shot,

that shows through, not only does he speak of that, but it shows. And his family is very close. He has four children, four dogs, four spaniels that are also very important and a part of the family. And his relationship with his wife, with his father, with his brother Buckley, are really what's at his core and what's most important. And I wanted that to come through in the book. So, you know, he's not just someone whose entire life is driven by politics. He's actually a very well-rounded person, has a very rich inner life, a very rich spiritual life and family life. And that's really at the core of his being. It's the core of what keeps him sane. And what it really makes him able to do what he does is having that bedrock behind him. And I really wanted that to come through in the

book. From all those interviews you did with him and others, are there any particular stories or moments in his life that stand out to you that were consequential? Oh, there's so many. I guess what immediately popped in my head, maybe just because I just mentioned Susie, is a story that she told me that no one knows, this is the first time I'm telling you, except for in the book, is that if any of your listeners recall in November 2018, Antifa attacked his home in D.C. This was right after the midterms. And his wife, Susie, was home alone. And that was the reason they left D.C. They moved out of D.C. because of that. But Susie told me a story that after the that President Trump actually called her on the phone and said to her, he said to her, I just want you to know that there's a lot of love in this world and you should focus on that. And then he said, you know, do you want me to come and stand in front of your home? And Susie said, no, no, please don't do that. But thank you, Mr. President.

And Susie said to me, that was something that she carries with her to this day because obviously there's a lot of, you know, she doesn't watch, pay attention much to social media. But she obviously gets wind of all the hate that comes at her family. and she said that she'd always remember President Trump's words on that. I thought that was such a sweet story that nobody knows about. Well, they will when they read the book. And now after listening to you, but it was a really nice moment. That story just really stuck out to me for some reason. Well, thank you for sharing that.

And so many other stories that, as you say, are featured in the book. I think it's an eye-opening read for so many people who probably don't really know the true Tucker Carlson. And my next question goes to that point. What are the biggest misperceptions that people have about Tucker Carlson that you hope that either the book will correct or you can tell me right now some of the things that are top of mind for you. I think aside from the usual, you know, racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobe, whatever they want to call him, which, you know, obviously no one believes that stuff anymore. I don't know if it's

necessarily a misconception, but I think one of the most revealing things about him is that, you know, if you spend a lot of time around people in television, especially cable news, there's tons of egos out there, right? And a lot of people tend to think that they're God and they tend to have big heads. And I don't know if anyone really has that perception of Tucker, but I think it's interesting that if you do think that way about cable news people and you'd be right most of the time, I think it's interesting to read in this book to the extent to which he really isn't that. I mean, the extent to which he kind of goes through things to make sure he doesn't think that he is God, that he doesn't, that he really humbles himself. And he had his father to teach him that

along the way. His father was also in television and, uh, and other mentors to sort of instruct him to don't, you know, really believe your own BS. And that is to believe the hype about yourself, uh, do things that to remind you that you're no different than any other human that walked this earth. You're no different than any other child of God. Uh, you're just a man. Not, not everyone's on television. Um, I think that's was really, really interesting. Uh, if you sort of think a certain way about how he might be in person being, being, having the notoriety he does and having the best, the highest rating show in cable. That respect of how he stood out, I think, for most people work in television was pretty revealing and really interesting to get to know and to get to see that.

You know, one thing that I've heard Tucker say in interviews is how he goes about absorbing the news. He doesn't watch television or read the New York Times or do things that probably so many other TV hosts and producers do. Instead, he talks to everyday Americans. And those are individuals who he probably met over the course of his life. I remember him telling the story. I think it was a waitress in Montana who he keeps in touch with and shares stories. And it's really interesting. And I think that goes to the heart of how probably you two even made your connection is he's looking for people who aren't part of the typical cabal on cable TV news. So how would you say that Tucker does, how has he come to form the beliefs he does today? And how has that changed over the course of

his life? He, I mean, it's a good question. And he's always been a kind of, like, like mischievous scamp. He always likes poking and stirring the pot. He loves debate. He absolutely loves to be. I have stories about his time on the debate club in high school and how it became a spectacle and people would show up for this and crowd the room, particularly when he debated staff at the school. And so he's always had that edge to him. I think that he just has probably, as he's gotten older and as more importantly, as the country changed, I think that he became more galvanized and really driven by a mission to save the country. I think that, um, I think that his wife believes it was a calling from God, that this is his calling to do this,

that he really feels this in a way that maybe in his CNN years and MSNBC years, he didn't necessarily feel the urgency of the moment. I think that he certainly does now. And I think that motivates him so much. And that changed his content so much. And that really, that really led him to become, to really come into his own during the Fox years. And he was given a lot of freedom at Fox to do that. at the same time, the nation was changing in a way that aligned with a lot of values and perspectives that he'd always had, this kind of civil libertarian perspective, this idea that, that as we've seen, the traditional definitions of left and right or Democrat Republican, aren't really holding as they once did.

And he's always sort of skirted that line. He's never been a party line hack in the way that a lot of people are. And that really has spoken to people and people responded to that because the nation is in that place right now. One area where he has recently challenged the Republican Party establishment is on foreign policy. Tucker himself was an early champion of the intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq, if I'm not mistaken. But then upon I think seeing firsthand what was going on in a foreign country slowly began to change his mind about American foreign policy, can you walk us through that evolution in his life and where he stands today and how, as somebody who stands up to Republican presidential, specifically how that's shaping politics in the nation today. Yeah, absolutely. That was his first big break from Beltway conservatism. And he, in 2003, he went to Iraq to write a story for Esquire. He was embedded with civilian contractors in Baghdad in the Green Zone. And he says that that experience completely, that was his first big break,

that completely changed his mind about American foreign policy, interventionism, American Empire, because he saw firsthand what was happening on the Green. ground there. And it horrified him. And he said that, you know, he learned that neoconservatives were no different than liberals with guns, or all they were was liberals with guns. That was when he really, he really started to wake up to this problem of the establishment and of the Uniparty. And we certainly saw that with the summit in Iowa last week, where he really took to task some candidates on the Republican Party. And, I mean, that sit down, if anyone saw it, was really sort of showed that he is representing the conscience of so many Republican voters in this country and really,

exposing how the candidates are completely detached. Maybe they don't even know that this is what's on voters' minds, or maybe they just simply don't care. But for some of those candidates, it was an absolute disaster. But for voters, everyone was cheering. As they did nightly on his show, many of them, for finally, you know, hearing what they want to hear in their perspectives and the questions they have being aired on a national platform. When it comes to his next steps, we obviously have seen Tucker on Twitter, both his monologues and long-form interview with Andrew Tate. What do you think he has in store for the future? Is it going to be similar mix of content? We've also heard about this potential media company to maybe take it to the next level with subscribers. Any advice or guidance that you

can share with our listeners about what's to come? Yeah, well, reports have it that they are fundraising for a new media venture. Tucker's executive producer, Justin Wells, who I saw this week, told me that if this happens, and it looks like it will, people can expect to see a lot more Tucker Carlson than they ever did on Fox. And apparently there's some negotiations happening here. I do kind of suspect that Tucker wants to be his own boss. I don't think that he's going to join some other platform or really, I don't think he'd bring on investors who want to have editorial control and his content, which I don't think of a problem finding. So we've also, Justin T's, soon they're going to have a very big interview, a long form interview posted on Twitter

very soon. We don't know who that's going to be with, but people can look out for that. So it's anchored to Twitter right now. I think for legal reasons, that makes a lot of sense, because Tucker's obviously still under contract with Fox News. But I've heard, I haven't seen his contract. I've heard that Fox didn't include Twitter and they're non-compete, which is why he's able to do this. He's not making money off Twitter right now. He's not being paid by Elon Musk. I guess from a legal standpoint, you could just be giving his political opinions of the day on Twitter like anyone on Fox does and is allowed to do. So his contract expires after the next presidential election in early 2025. It looks like if Fox has their way, they would like for him to be

silent until after the next election, which is chilling and terrifying. And they're still paying him. He's still getting his usual paycheck to not have a show. And that is, that's what we know right now. And is it, are you of the opinion, and as so many of us are, that, that, that, we don't know the real reason why Fox canceled his show? Or were you able to gather some inside knowledge from Tucker or some of the other people close to him as to what transpired on April 24th? Well, we have some people quoted in the book about that. I mean, nobody knows for certain. I've got what my sources told me. I've got what I speculate happened. You know, it could have been any number of things. I think what's clear is that it was content related. It was political related. And I think that

that is obvious because, number one, the hassle they're giving him now about keeping quiet. You know, obviously, there's big globalist corporations that have controlling states in Fox. There's people like Paul Ryan who are on the board of Fox. There are people like the Murdox who are big fans of the war in Ukraine. They're big fans of Zelensky. There are many forces that wanted him to be quiet, despite the fact he was propping up not only the entire primetime lineup, but the network. And I would argue propping up all of cable news in terms of its relevancy and lifespan, perhaps

artificially so. And this sort of is confounded with the fact that Fox News fired his entire team about 25 people. They're working across his three shows. That's not normal at all for a news company. People are hired to work for a network, not for shows, but of course he had a very close-knit team. And they were all let go. So speculation has run wild. We address a lot of the speculations in the book. We tell what some of my sources said, but Fox News is not given an official reason. They've not told Tucker an official reason. They're happy to just let everyone speculate. And they seem to think that's the best approach. Chaddook, are we going to see you on Fox News anytime? Or are you also in that same camp as Tucker? Unfortunately, I was banned from Fox News the two hours after we announced

this book. I was a regular on not just Tucker show, but on Greg Gutfeld's show, Jimmy Phelis show. several others. But I was banned when we announced the book. So I'm on the Fox Blacklist with so many great Americans. It's a good list to be on. You know, so they won't, I don't think you'll be seeing me there anytime soon. Well, we'll miss you, but you certainly will have plenty of other platforms, including the Daily Signal, to get your message out. So thank you again for being with us. Again, the book is called Tucker. It's by Chadwick Moore. I encourage you to pick up a copy. Chad, we just a couple of final questions. First of all, how can people follow your work?

I know this is just one aspect of the journalism that you do. What would you like our listeners to know about you? Sure. You can find me on Twitter at Chabuk underscore more. I'm a contributing editor and columnist at The Spectator. And you can find a lot of my columns there. And you can find more about the book at tuckerthe book.com. Thanks for joining us today as we continue our daily signal best of 2020.

podcast series. That's going to do it for today's episode. We do not have any top news shows this week. Again, we'll be back next week, bringing you every evening the news of the day to keep you informed and up to date. In the meantime, please take a minute to leave The Daily Signal a five-star rating and review. It's a great Christmas gift to all of us here at the Daily Signal. And also, be sure to hit the subscribe button. We hope you have a great rest of your day. We will see you right back here tomorrow morning for our final edition of the Daily Signal's Best of Podcast series. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation.

Executive producers are Rob Luey and Kate Trinco. Producers are Virginia Allen and Samantha Asheras. Sound designed by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney, and John Pop. To learn more, please visitdailySignal.com.