The Daily Signal - Debunking the American Left's Biggest Myths About Europe

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Remember when Sen. Bernie Sanders pointed to Europe as the solution for America's problems? “I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway,” Sanders, I-Vt., said during a 2016 presidential debate, “and learn what they have accomplished for their working people.” He's not alone. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., said, "What we have in mind and what my policies most closely resemble are what we see in the U.K., Norway, in Finland, in Sweden.” These self-proclaimed socialists profess that a European model is superior to the United States. It isn't. David Harsanyi, a senior writer at National Review and columnist for The Daily Signal, is the author of a new book, "Eurotrash: Why America Must Reject the Failed Ideas of a Dying Continent." Harsanyi debunks the American left's myths about Europe and explains why we shouldn't look across the Atlantic to solve our problems. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Monday, November 15th. I'm Rob Blewe. And I'm Virginia Allen. On today's show, Rob talks with Daily Signal columnist David Harsani, author of the new book, Euro Trash, Why America Must Reject the Failed Ideas of a dying continent. We also read your letters to the editor and share a good news story about a pro-life initiative you can take part in this month. But before we get to today's show, Rob and I want to tell you about a resource from the heritage, Foundation called the Citizens Guide to Fight for America. The Citizens Guide provides a series of heritage recommended action items delivered directly to your inbox and crafted to equip you to make an impact in your community and in our country. You can visit the website at heritage.org slash citizens guide to sign up.

Once there, you'll also find talking points on key issues, tips for writing a letter to the editor, and ways to hold your government accountable. Join an army of concerned citizens in the fight to defend our American ideals. Again, the website is heritage.org slash citizens guide. Now stay tuned for today's show. Coming up next. We are joined on the Daily Signal podcast by David Harsani, who is the author of a new book, Euro Trash, Why America Must Reject the Failed Ideas of a Dying Continent.

David is also a senior writer at National Review, and we're proud to have him as a columnist for The Daily Signal. David, congrats on the new book, and welcome back to the show. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Well, we are doing this interview in the aftermath of the UN Climate Change Conference, also known as COP26. Of course, this took place on European soil. And so much of what you write about in the book seems to have played out before our eyes over the past couple of weeks. Why does the American left embrace Europe with such fanfare? Well, the broad answer is that many of Europhiles, I call them here in the United States,

are technocrats in essence, and they like to be able to compel people to do things that they believe is moral or right. And they're turned off by the messiness and dynamism and frankly the meritocratic aspects of American life because they do not, you know, they're... To them, it looks like anarchy, and they simply don't like it.

They don't like the inequality. They don't like the way technology goes. They don't like the un- the growth that happens without any sort of government control. And they don't like the low taxation of them, regulatory burdens and things like that. So they look to Europe because Europe does all those things. Now, President Biden, when he was at this summit, seemed to restart President Obama's apology tour.

He told the Europeans and the world that he was sorry that the United States left the Paris Climate Agreement during the Trump administration. Why do you think American presidents feel this need to apologize? to our European allies? Well, I mean, I think there's a certain kind of politician who went to a certain kind of university and has a certain kind of ideological outlook that believes Europeans are more sophisticated than we are and that we should try to be more like them.

I think Barack Obama was a big example of that. I think Joe Biden is probably less so, but he is, of course, just says whatever he thinks he's supposed to say. He's quite cynical about these things. But Barack Obama is a good example of a Euro. I think he just believed that Europe was doing a better job of controlling its citizenry in a top-down, centralized way that the European Union does, and that, again, they just think that that's a better system, and they'd like to implement that here. Now, in the book, you go chapter by chapter to debunk some of the most popular myths about Europe and also make the case that the United States is superior on a range of measures. And I'd like to go through some of those now.

Let's start with the Nordic countries, because that's where. you often see American socialists or those in the left, point to first. What do you want people to know about nations like Denmark, Sweden, and Norway that they might not hear from the media? Well, I suppose the first thing actually is the myth that they are socialistic countries to begin with. They're not. They are quite capitalistic. In fact, I think the Heritage Foundation ranks like Denmark number eight or something like that in economic freedom. they have quite robust trade, open trade, free trade, and not a very high regulatory burden in some ways.

They just use the money to prop up huge welfare states. And that is the problem. And people like Bernie Sanders who praise those nations, they don't want to implement, or maybe they do, but they don't advocate for implementing the same kind of taxation that's necessary to have that kind of state, which would never scale to this country. You know, you're talking about 57, 60 percent tax rates right off the bat without even

talking about consumption taxes and other taxes. You're talking about a heavily taxed middle class and even the poor pay taxes. So the whole country is dependent on government. It's a very different system than they portray here. I guess that's the first thing I'd say. The second thing I'd say is that they don't really do things better than us. So I'm not sure why we'd want to scale that kind of. system. They don't assimilate people better. Their health care is not really better in any in any in any in any

quantifiable way that matters and so I'm not even sure why we'd want it. Their growth is slower, etc. Well, and let's get into a couple of those issues because it seems that on issue after issue you have the same theme. The United States is vastly superior to Europe and in so many of these areas. So health care is another example of where the right and the left in America have significantly different ideas, yet the left frequently points to Europe as a model. But you say the facts don't back up their arguments. How so? I should preface this by saying, of course, that European health care is quite good. It's not as if we're talking about, you know, a third world nation here or whatever the politically correct term for that kind of nation is. Developing nation is, you know, Europe has good

health care. And many European nations have different or, you know, European nations have different kinds of health care systems. British, for instance, have almost a completely socialized system. which is why they have lots of tourists, a medical tourist, coming here to get operations, because there's long waits for simple operations, long waits for drugs, fewer kinds of pharmaceuticals available to people, et cetera. In the United States, we don't have that. The big, I would just give two quick statistics. The big argument here is life expectancy and mortality of babies.

Both of those are misleading. The life expectancy here is shorter than most European countries, not by a large amount, but it is because of our lifestyle choices. For instance, we drive more. So we have many more vehicular deaths than they do in Europe. That doesn't say anything about how we deliver health care. That says something about how we live. And maybe we're not as healthy or as, you know,

we're prone to put ourselves in situations that aren't as safe. But, and as far as childbirth goes, you know, they're in the United States and in many European countries, we simply measure these things differently. We are far more inclined to try to save every baby's life, no matter how premature. And these statistics skewed the, you know, they skew the statistics, this sort of view of life. And in reality, the health care system is not, you know, in those ways that most liberals usually bring up there. We are not worse than Europe. You also mentioned assimilation.

Immigration and assimilation are a challenging issue confronting both the United States and Europe. Yet you argue that it's America. not Europe that's actually the more welcoming society. What did you discover when you were doing your research on this? Well, I discovered, and I think I do this before I did, I have to say, that we are the most accepting and tolerant country in human history, and that I just don't even understand how anyone can deny that. European nations have trouble assimilating even single minorities they always have, and they have trouble just living with borders next to each other. And we see that now. You know, now I think that we have some assimilation problems.

typically because of illegal immigration, not because of legal immigration, but Europe has massive generational problems with immigration. They have near, say, Paris or Berlin or other places in Germany, there are basically ghettos, compartmentalized areas where generational unemployment inhibits assimilation, where there's poverty, where people don't accept, most importantly, the ideals of Europe, though I'm not sure they know what those are anymore, that allow people to assimilate and live together. And then you have, you know, Islamic enclaves where people have illiberal ideas about the world. So these are problems we don't actually experience very much because we're good at assimilating people. It's not to say that we're perfect or that everyone here is

welcoming of new people all the time. But as a society, I mean, you know, just living in the D.C. area, I live near people from all over the world who sometimes would be killing each other in other circumstances and here they send their kids to the same schools. That is a, that is a miracle. Not a miracle, but it's the, it's the only time that's ever really happened at large scale in human history and happens here every day. Well, it certainly does. And, you know, as somebody who's who's great grandparents assimilated here in the early 1900s, I mean, certainly my, my family's living proof of that is there are so many other millions of Americans. So, I mean, I think it's one of the characteristics that we need to embrace as a country. I mean, my own parents came here and

They were Jewish, right? And they went to neighborhoods near Germans, you know, just 20 years after the Holocaust. And they lived here peacefully and again sent their kids the same school, open business together, et cetera. You also cover the issue of anti-Semitism, which of course is a problem across the globe, but particularly in Europe. Looking at that issue specifically, what did you find? I mean, there's rampant anti-Semitism. Now, it's difficult to deal with these kind of topics in the sense that a lot of times incidents, for instance, of racial crimes or hate crimes are self-reported or, you know, the polling is about how people feel. Now, that matters, don't get me wrong, but I think that we're accustomed to such high levels

of integration here that we are more sensitive to that sort of thing than Europeans. But when you look at France, I mean, every year there is some horrific act of anti-Semitism there. And that's not even counting the everyday incidents that go on. A few years ago, the French had to deploy the army to protect Jewish cemeteries and neighborhoods. This has some, you know, a lot of this has to do with immigration from people from the Middle East, but it also has to do with, you know, ethno-nationalistic growth in certain places as well. There's a lot of anti-Semitism in Europe. And sometimes in countries where there are hardly any Jews even left, but there's just, you know, it's just in nearly every country, and it runs very deep.

Again, we're talking to David Harsani. The book is called Euro Trash, Why America Must Reject the Fail Ideas of a Dying State. David, I look around the pews at my church on Sunday, and I see people mostly older than me. There are a handful of families, but far fewer younger people. But as problematic as this is for the United States, it's even worse in Europe, according to your book. Why are Europeans rejecting religion? and what does it mean for their culture where it was once so integral? Well, yeah, we are on the same trajectory.

It's not as bad here. And some European countries are better than others, so it's not all the same. But almost everything I read about ties into this in some sense. I mean, I think the idea that something is bigger than you is quite important in believing in liberalism and in rights and which Europeans have abandoned. But it's also, as you said, foundational to the ideas of liberalism and what made Europe great at one point, or what were many of the ideas that made Europe great that I think we adopted. So those things, and when you don't have those things, you start to, when you don't have that moral structure, your hierarchy of values change. And I think you start turning to government and the state to fill that void. And I think that's what progressives do with climate change and so on.

But I also think in Europe it's been happening for a long time where people turn to fascism or communism and now this giant bureaucratic state to give them their rights or tell them how to live. And so that's no way to have a content. No one's ever picked up a musket to defend the European Union nor will they ever do that. You need something to believe in. And I think that there's a crisis of faith in Europe because of the lack of religion. I'm glad you brought up the European Union five years ago, the United Kingdom. kingdom voted to withdraw from the EU. And since then, the UK has taken a decidedly conservative turn cheered on by many Americans, including my colleagues at the Heritage Foundation. What did Brexit say

about the EU and how has it damaged the idea of this European super state? Well, frankly, historically speaking, the British were always a tough fit for the EU. I don't think they ever, ever, they're not, the people there are not built for it, really. They never accepted the currency. Even when Winston Churchill spoke about one day having a super European state. He didn't even include the British in that equation. They're too capitalistic and the closest to American. I'm a bit of an Anglo file myself, but I just think that they're the closest we have.

But for very obvious reasons, most of our best ideas come from them. But I think what it says is that others may follow. But it's a little tougher because a lot of these other countries, say Hungary or smaller countries benefit from membership, even, I shouldn't say benefit, economically benefit, though they don't benefit culturally from being a part of that. But obviously I was happy. I wrote a book called Eurotresh.

I was very happy Brexit happened. But I don't know what that means for the future because Germany runs the European Union and I think many of the other bigger nations benefit from it for different reasons because of creates this market for them, and many of the smaller nations will have a hard time leaving because they're just not economically strong enough. So I guess my answer would be I'm not sure. David, here in the United States, we just had major elections in a couple of states. Virginia obviously shifting dramatically in a different direction from the trajectory it was on. And a lot of that is animated by what we call culture wars, issues like critical race theory or, you know,

debates over transgender issues and the appropriate bathrooms. What are some of the, what is it like in Europe right now on, on some of these issues? Are they confronting with some of the same culture war issues that we are in the United States? Or is it just a U.S. thing? And they're kind of on their own, on their own path. Actually, I would say that the woke culture stuff is much more a problem here than Europe, frankly. I think like the French reject that sort of thing generally. You did mention before how the British had, you know, had gone conservative or conservatives had won, but I would just push back on that in general in Europe. I just don't feel like there's an actual ideological right-left fight. It's typically about how you want to use the state. Do you want, you know,

classical liberalism that sort of undergirds, I guess, you know, a lot of small government conservatism in this country is about, has an ideological component about individual rights and shrinking the state and things like that. that. In Europe, it's mostly just right-center, left-center debates about how, you know, stateism should be used. And I think that's the case in general. So you don't get a lot of culture war stuff simply because I give me an example, abortion, where abortion laws in Europe are generally more restrictive than here in the United States. And I think that that's, that manifests that way because there is no right-wing cultural, social conservative force in Europe really pushing back

to make, to radicalize the left. They don't need to be that way because there is no real social conservatives because there's no real clericalism or church pushing back in any real way against the, you know, these issues. So I think the dynamics very different than here as far as that sort of culture war stuff goes. It does exist to some extent, I think, but just not in the same way it does here. Well, we've talked a lot about the left's embrace of Europe, but I'd remiss if I weren't going to ask you about some on the right who are peer-enthralled with Hungary and its leader Victor Orban of late. What's your take on this development? I'm quite sympathetic to the problems

identified by someone like Orban, you know, the mass immigration, especially a small country. I think there's nine million people in Hungary. The loss of faith, the lack of births, things of that nature. I am not sympathetic to many of his illiberal, not just his illiberal policies as far as press goes and things of that nature, but just in general. I think people overrate Hungary. I think they overrate the solutions that Hungary's come up with. People still leave that country. Maybe, maybe last year or the year before, there was a slight turn in that. But, you know, a lot of these conservatives go to Hungary, sit in a cafe in Budapest, overlook the Danube, take a little walk, and they think that's what Hungarian life is about. But for most people, it's not. When you look at per capita, for instance,

per capita income, I think there are 10,000. per capita below, dollars below someone in Mississippi, the average person in Mississippi. So that, to me, is not something I would be trying to copy. David, we've covered so many issues already, but I know you have a lot more in the book. Again, it's called Euro Trash, Why America Must Reject the Failed Ideas of a Dying State. Are there any other issues that you think that our listeners should know about when it comes to Europe? Yeah, I mean, I think that the most, the scariest thing to me is, you know, as far as what we're doing, that they do that's wrong. is copying their giant bureaucracy.

I mean, bureaucracies run countries in Europe, not people. And that happens here, right? You think about the CDC and what they were doing during COVID, or even think about the State Department and what they were doing during the presidency of Donald Trump. When you have bureaucracies that are so powerful and large, they, in essence, start to govern rather than people who are elected and rather than the Constitution.

So that is a dangerous thing that we should think about as we expand the welfare state and other, you know, government entities in Washington. That's a fair point. And I'm glad you mentioned COVID because obviously that's a big challenge, not only across the United States, but the world as well. And of late, you've seen the Biden administration take authoritarian action in terms of its COVID-19 vaccine mandate. Where do you see this ultimately ending up? And are there any lessons that they're trying to take from Europe that we should be fearful of. Well, I mean, they're, they're acting as if they're a European government that can just lay down edicts and ignore courts or bend the meaning of courts. And obviously, the Biden administration

just simply does these things, ignores the court as long as it can and then re, you know, does some slightly different variation on the regulation to keep going. This is authoritarianism for sure, as you said. And it does not bode well for the future if they get away with it. The problem, of course, in America is that we in some way rely on the president and on Congress and, you know, following the Constitution in some sense. And, you know, because if, you know, nothing else stops them, they can just ignore the courts if they want. And it's, and Biden is doing that today.

The cold COVID thing was very scary to me simply because so many Americans acted so do. It's so do. And, you know, governors are just shutting down churches. Everyone's like, oh, it's fine, you know. I think that that boat, you know, was really scared me. But I think there's been a turn in that, and we're acting more like Americans should act in the face of these sorts of things. So perhaps that's a good thing in the long run.

I'd agree with you on that. I think I've noticed that turn as well. And I think we need more of it. I think we need more people speaking out and not just following the orders as they're handed down. David, we normally run your column every Friday at the Daily Signal. Tell our listeners about where they can follow your work and get the book. Most of my work is at National Review. up there. You can follow me on Twitter with my other stuff too. It's David Harsani. And you can buy the

book anywhere. I hope that books are sold Amazon, Barnes & Noble, places like that. Well, David, thanks again for writing it and debunking some of these myths and warning us about what our future would look like if we head down this path. We appreciate the work you do. And thanks for joining us today. And I appreciate you having me. Thank you. Virginia Allen here, I want to tell you all about one of my favorite podcasts. Heritage Explains is a weekly podcast that breaks down all the policy issues we hear about in the news at a 101 level. Hosts Michelle Cordero and Tim Desher mix in news clips and music to tell a story, but also bring in heritage experts to help break down complex issues. Heritage Explains offers quick, 10 to 50 minute explainers that bring you up to speed in an

entertaining way. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast. We even put the full episode on YouTube. Thanks for sending us your letters to the editor. Each Monday, we feature our favorites on this show. Virginia, who's up first? One of our podcast listeners sent us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts writing, great reporting, straight-up honest reporting and great interviews, unapologetically conservative, and they always make so much sense. And in response to Kenny U's article, Salvation Army imposes racial woteness within church's ranks, Christy Kelly writes, I so appreciate your article about the Salvation Army falling to critical race theory. I contacted the Salvation Army a couple of months ago about this,

and a representative from their communications department responded. At the time, he said the teaching was voluntary, which made no sense. And you are right, General Booth is probably spinning in his grave about this. CRT itself is racist. Anytime one race is seen as evil or stupid, it is racist. It breaks my heart. Your letter could be featured on next week's show. So send us an email at Letters at DailySanil.com. If you're tired of high taxes, fewer health care choices, and bigger and bigger government, it's time to partner with the most impactful conservative organization in America. We're the Heritage Foundation, and we're committed to solving the issues America faces. Together, we'll fight back against the rising tide of homegrown

socialism and we'll fight for conservative solutions that are making families more free and more prosperous. But we can't do it without you. Please join us at heritage.org. Virginia, you have a good news story to share with us today. Over to you. Thank you so much, Rob. On December 1st, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear oral arguments for a court case that could overturn Roe v. Wade. The case is Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organizations, and it gives the nine justices the opportunity to affirm the sanctity of every human life. Right now, the pro-life community is being called to action. We are asking the question, what can we do to support and defend the sanctity of life? For Christians across America, their

simple yet powerful answer is prayer. Christian organizations across the country are mobilizing people to pray for life to again be protected in the womb. And on November 18th, that's this Thursday, they are holding a national prayer event to pray for the Dobbs case. Kathy Branzal, the head of the National Day of Prayer, says the November 18th event is a significant way we can all stand together to support life. We want to launch the church across America to be praying for and through out this really important Supreme Court case. And so we're grateful to be partnering with Alliance Defending Freedom and so many others to get

to host this significant prayer time on November 18th. Over the past two years, we have all heard an increase in calls for just. We have been reminded that life matters, that it is sacred. And as Kathy says, now is the time to extend that sense of justice to those in the womb. All of us carry a kingdom purpose, and that purpose is destroyed. Those plans are thwarted when we take away a life, when someone of any age from womb to tomb is murdered. And so we are praying for life, for life to matter, for justice for all, for every destiny and kingdom plan to be lived out in every single life and every heartbeat that exists. The event on the 18th is being hosted online.

So no matter where you live in the nation or the world, you can join the prayer event at 8 p.m. Eastern time this Thursday. pro-life leaders such as Pastor Tony Evans, Lou Engle, Benjamin Watson, and Mother Agnes will be leading times of prayer and encouraging us all why we continue to advocate for those who have no voice. You can register for the prayer event by visiting pray for Dobbs. That's spelled out for F-O-R-Dobs.com. You will find lots of resources there for you, your community, your church, explaining how you can be in prayer for this Dobbs case. As the leader of the National Day of Prayer, Kathy is challenging the church across the country to be intentional right now and to stand for life at this critical moment. Of course, if we heard someone crying for help, we would go in and we would save them, even risking our own lives.

So I'm just going to ask the church to give up some time. Greater love hath no man that he would lay down his life for his friends. And we consume our life with time. and priority. So I'm going to ask you, brothers and sisters in Christ, to give time, to taking time, to pray, grumbling and complaining never changes anything. But prayer can change everything. And our challenge to you is to pray daily, pray fervently, pray deliberately. Again, to register for the event or to learn more, you can visit prayfordobbs.com. and take part in this wonderful event happening November 18th at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.

Again, the website is pray for dobs.com. Virginia, thanks for sharing that good news story today. We're going to leave it there for today's show. You can find the Daily Signal podcast on the Rurkesha Audio Network. All of our shows are available at daily signal.com slash podcasts. You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or your favorite podcast app. And be sure to listen every weekday by, adding The Daily Signal podcast as part of your Alexa Flash Briefing.

If you like what you hear, please leave us a review at a five-star rating. It means a lot to us and helps us spread the word to other listeners. Be sure to follow us on Twitter at DailySignal and Facebook.com slash the Daily Signal News. Have a great week. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. It is executive produced by Rob Blewey and Virginia Allen, sound design by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney, and John Pop. For more information, visitdailysignal.com.