The Daily Signal - Ep. 284: McCain's Legacy

Episode Date: August 27, 2018

After six years of working for Sen. John McCain, Walter Lohman, now director of Asian Studies at The Heritage Foundation, got to know him pretty well. He shares his insights on the late senator, and what made him unique. Plus: A new study shows a third of teens don't even read one book for fun in the course of a year. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Tuesday, August 28th. I'm Kate Trinco. And I'm Daniel Davis. Well, as the nation mourns the passing of Senator John McCain, senators, former presidents and journalists have openly paid their respects. Today, we sit down with Walter Lohman, a Heritage Foundation expert who worked up close with the senator. We'll also discuss the radical decline in book reading among American teens. But first, we'll cover a few of the top headlines.

NAFTA is out and the U.S. Mexico. trade agreement is in, as President Trump announced from the Oval Office Monday. It's a big day for trade, big day for our country. A lot of people thought we'd never get here because we all negotiate tough. We do so does Mexico. Trump also said he'll begin negotiating with Canada. For the Daily Signals, White House correspondent Fred Lucas, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lightheiser said that the agreement will be in place for 16 years. but will come up for review every six years to decide if it will be renewed at the end of the 16 years. Well, two days after his passing, Senator John McCain released a farewell message to fellow Americans.

In one passage, he writes, quote, Do not despair of our present difficulties, but believe always in the promise and greatness of America, because nothing is inevitable here. Americans never quit. We never surrender. We never hide from history. We make history. end quote. Well, on the very same day, the White House restored its flags to full staff,

even as other federal buildings kept their flags at half staff in honor of McCain. President Trump tweeted condolences to McCain's family, but according to the Washington Post, which cited White House aides, the president decided against releasing an official statement, even as his staff pushed for it. The statement would have called McCain a hero. McCain and Trump engaged in an ongoing war of wars dating back to 2013, when Trump questioned McCain's heroism in Vietnam. McCain asked that Trump not be invited to his funeral. Vice President Pence will attend on behalf of the administration,

as will former presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, along with former Vice President Joe Biden, with whom McCain served in the Senate. Iran is asking the United Nations legal system to intervene and halt the U.S. from reimposing sanctions on the regime until the International Court of Justice, which is the top UN court, can hear the case. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement that,

quote, we will vigorously defend against Iran's meritless claims this week in the Hague. And the proceedings instituted by Iran are a misuse of the court. Meanwhile, Iran is also making threats in another direction. Reuters reports, quote, Tehran has suggested it could take military action in the Gulf to block other countries' oil exports and retaliation for U.S. sanctions intended to halt its sales of crude. Washington maintains the fleet in the Gulf that protects oil shipping routes.

Well, FBI agents on Sunday swarmed the house of an armed shooter's father located in Baltimore. The shooter opened fire over the weekend at a restaurant in Jacksonville, Florida, where a Madden 19 tournament was taking place. He killed two and injured 11 before taking his own life. Here's what two survivors had to say about the shooting. Being trampled, people, everyone running for their lives. people were being trampled, people were hiding, everybody was screaming in fear. Anything that you expect to see in there, something like this?

I sustained an injury based by escaping. What happened was we, like he said, we heard a pot when we just thought a balloon popping. We're like, wait, there's no balloons in here. So we basically got out for our lives. He actually made out before me, and shortly after I was behind him, and I'm calling out to him. He actually helped me up because I couldn't walk back. In an 11-page letter, Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, who served as the apostolic nuncio to the United States from 2011 to 2016, meaning he effectively worked as a liaison between American bishops and the Vatican, claimed that Pope Benedict the 16th had imposed secret sanctions on then Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the former Cardinal of Washington, D.C., who stepped down in 2006. This year, after an investigation, the Archdiocese of New York announced there was a credible claim that McCarrick

had decades ago been guilty of sexual misconduct with a teenage boy. It was also announced at the same time that two adults had received settlements from New Jersey diocese over McCarrick's treatment of them, and there are allegations that McCarrick on multiple occasions behaved inappropriately with seminarians. In his letter, Vigano claims he told Pope Francis when asked about McCarrick shortly after Francis's election. Holy Father, I don't know if you know Cardinal McCarrick, but if you ask the congregation of bishops, there is a dossier this thick about him. He corrupted generations of seminarians and priests, and Pope Benedict ordered him to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance. However, McCarrick appeared to grow in prominence, not to Greece, and traveled more, and according

to Vigano, played a role in picking American cardinals. Asked about Vigano's letter, Pope Francis said Sunday, I won't say a word about it and told journalists to judge for themselves. There are also of questions regarding Vigano's claims, given the McCarrick's life during the years, he was under the alleged secret sanction does not seem to match up with what the sanction required. And to be clear, Vagano is not claiming that he knew or told Pope Francis that McCarrick was accused of misconduct with a minor. It related to adults. Well, the head of ISIS in Afghanistan was killed over the weekend in an airstrike conducted by Afghan and foreign forces. Also among the dead were 10 ISIS militants. Abu Sad Erhabi was the fourth ISIS leader in Afghanistan to be killed since

July 2017. Jamel Hill is leaving ESPN, according to the New York Post. Last year, Hill tweeted Donald Trump is a white supremacist who has largely surrounded himself with other white supremacists. After Hill made this remark in others on Twitter, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the press secretary, said, quote, that's one of the more outrageous comments that anyone could make and certainly something that I think is a fireable offense by ESPN. Hill's leaving suggests that ESPN, which has become more political in recent years, is looking to go back to being apolitical. Well, up next, we'll sit down with a former employee of John McCain. I'm Rob Blewey, editor-in-chief of The Daily Signal. And I'm Jenny Malta Bono. Each weekday, the Daily Signal delivers the Morning Bell email

direct to your inbox. We created the Morning Bell to be your one-stop source for credible news reporting and insightful commentary on the issues that are shaping the agenda. You can subscribe today and get it delivered to your inbox each weekday morning. Sign up now at dailysignal.com. Just click on the connect button at the top of the page and subscribe today. Senator John McCain passed away this Saturday and joining us to discuss his legacy is Walter Lohman, director of the Asian Studies Center at the Heritage Foundation, but more importantly, a former longtime employee of Senator McCain's.

Walter, thanks for joining us. Sure. Okay, so you actually interacted with McCain for six years. Tell us what was he like to work with? Well, he was very accessible. I would see him every day. He'd get in the office very early, sort of as the military thing to do. He was in the office about 7 o'clock in the morning. Oh, my gosh. He was a very accessible sort of guy, very engaging, very sort of family-oriented in the sense that the office had sort of a family feel to it. We were all in it together. And he was very fun to work for, mainly because he was so engaged. He was so confrontational in a lot of ways. Didn't take it out on his staff, as rumors are.

Some senators do. But he would take it out on people his own size, which was his own members, his fellow senators. And so we had a lot of good stories about those sorts of times. Most of them involve curse words, so I won't go into. You can share with some self-censoring. It's difficult to do that. But, you know, he had a lot of friends in the Senate. And he, you know, he had some people that weren't so close to him,

people that he held grudges against for a certain amount of time, and had interactions with them and confrontational interactions, but eventually he would get to the point where he would come around. You know, one of the things he worked on that, I guess controversial in some circles, but with the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform in my time there, and he worked with Feingold. He and Feingal were not friends at all. I mean, they were very much on opposite ends of the political spectrum

and had conflict over issues, especially on defense issues and that sort of thing. But over time, he would learn to put those things behind him and work just some sort of common goal. Yeah, McCain's one of those senators that you saw sometimes had some close friends on the other side of the aisle. You hear about that less and less that it's more difficult for senators from opposing parties to be friends. What was it that allowed him to develop and enjoy those friendships

with people like Joe Lieberman and others who were not in his party? I think he had a sense of a bigger purpose for his service. He had a sense of service to his nation, something that he demonstrated in his career in the U.S. Navy. And he had a sense of service to the U.S. Senate as well as his constituencies back in Arizona. I think those are the things that allowed him to sort of look past the immediate conflict. A big part of the Senate, actually, especially then, but less so now. But a big part of it is compromise. and that was ingrained in him.

So he would push hard for the solution he wanted, but in the end he recognized you had to be able to sit down with people of the other side. Even sometimes when you had problems with people in your own party, you needed to sit down and work out your differences. And that included incorporating some of the things they wanted. It's just the way the place worked. I have to say, my own personal opinion, worked a lot better 20 years ago than it does today because of that.

Today, the Senate is much like a smaller version of the House. You know, whoever's in leadership position, it doesn't have that same kind of give and take. So he came up in the Senate at a time that it developed that sort of give and take. And you needed partners across the aisle or to get anything done. And so as staff, we actually had a standing order to go out and find Democrats. If we wanted to do something, introduce a new bill, we usually had to go out and find a Democrat to put on it. So you mentioned Joe Lieberman. Joel Lieberman is every Republican's favorite Democrat.

So I don't know that he gets a lot of credit for that sort of approach to Lieberman. But he did develop relationships with people like John Kerry and some others that he had more serious disagreements with. So I'm not sure when you worked for him. Did it overlap at all with either of his presidential bids? No, but I worked on those campaigns. Oh, you did? So what was he like as a candidate? I mean, I was reading, speaking of a throwback, Tucker Carlson writing for the Weekly Standard reporting on his 2000 campaign.

And I had just forgotten like how freewheeling McCain was during parts of that campaign. So speak about that a bit and then, of course, his much more successful 2008 bid. Yeah, in 2000, I think what made that campaign so refreshing and, and, and, and, you know, and, you know, what made that campaign so refreshing. And what it, I think the appeal that it ultimately had was that the way you saw him interacting on the straight talk express and with reporters generally was a pretty genuine person. And that's how he actually was, you know, one-on-one was the way you saw him interact on the bus, the jokes he makes, you know, many of which I've heard a thousand times. I mean, one of those jokes I've heard a thousand times. but he was very very personable in that way, very genuine. He was the challenger, basically, in that race.

And so I think that gives you a certain freedom. He said whatever he felt like. And, you know, maybe that contributed the fact that he lost, but he, but that's very much the type of person he was to say, to say what is on his mind. I mean, you know, to some extent, let's face it, he was a politician, and politicians, all politicians are making compromises. But I think on balance, what you really saw in him was the genuine article. Well, so many people know John McCain, of course, from his service in Vietnam.

And, of course, he ended up being chairman of the Armed Services Committee. What sort of lasting impact did he have on the military through his time on the Armed Services Committee? Well, I think his service as chairman of the committee and ranking member, he was able to establish a firm baseline of what the military needs in order to accomplish its mission. And short of getting that baseline, at least you know what it is and you know whether we're underperforming or we're providing the men and women and the military what they need in order to do their job. you know, as a former naval officer himself, as a son and grandson of naval officers, I think he carried on the tradition of the committee for a great deal of respect for the military, the Navy in particular. I think he succeeded in putting the Navy front and center in the Senate's consideration and the Congress consideration of these things.

I mean, as the guy here that works on Asia, that's particularly important to me because for, you know, United States, everything we do in Asia is very much related to the water, you know, because there's a lot of water between here and the east coast of China, right? So I think that's some of the lasting impact he'll have on the service. It's one of the most knowledgeable senators to ever serve in that role. I mean, he really understood the military from, in the Navy in particular from, you know, the operational side. He flew fighter aircraft or attack aircraft off of aircraft carrier. So he knew what was involved in landing a plane on an aircraft carrier, what was needed in the, you know, the mechanisms that stopped the aircraft or launch it.

He understood the budgets. He understood the kind of political processes that are, that drive budgets in the Pentagon, and they're not always good, right? Sometimes they're pushing projects and weapons systems and things like that that aren't necessary. And he knew how to call BS on some of those things. The sort of worst thing you could hope for is to be in front of him in one of those Armed Services Committee hearings and be on the other side of the issue because he did understand the issue and he could really grill a general or an admiral. that came before, let alone a civilian who was on the other side of that witness table. Did he ever speak at all about his own experience, being tortured and held?

Obviously, I mean, such a huge part of his life. I mean, I just am always in such awe that he was able to endure that. You know, at least as far as, you know, with me and I'm sure there are people closer to him that he talked to those things about, but he didn't talk very much about it at all, in fact. I remember early on when I worked for him, we went out to celebrate his release. It was like maybe a 20th anniversary of his release from prison in Vietnam. And even in that occasion, he really didn't say anything about it. Made a couple jokes about it, but moved on.

How did you celebrate it? Like just get drinks? Yeah, we went to have barbecue and beer. Wow. So all-American. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So I don't know. In that sense, I really, he's really more like the greatest generation than he is like a baby boomer. You know, and I'm kind of analyzing here a little bit, but he was very much like a World War II vet in that way.

He didn't talk about it and dwell on it. You know, he wanted to do other things, too. He didn't want to just be the guy who was held prisoner for five and a half years and, you know, then wrote a couple books. lived off of that. He had other things he wanted to do. It didn't really define him as a human being, let alone define his career. Well, the response that we've had from people on both sides of the aisle here in Washington is just really impressed me. It sort of reminded me of when Billy Graham passed. I mean, everyone is just remembering him and saying good things about Senator McKay and certainly must have been a privilege to work for him. Oh, yeah. No, I treasured working for him so much. I mean, at the time I worked for him, I was a young guy and lived with three other guys who worked for McCain.

And we worked about three blocks away from the office. So for those six years, I just... A common practice in D.C. Yes, that's true. And for those six years, I just lived and breathed and ate John McGain. I mean, we know about John McCain, you know. And so we didn't have, you know, we didn't have the same sort of computer technology then either. So like remote access, that was not possible.

So we were going to the office on the weekends. And, you know, it was just sort of steeped in McCain's life. And no, and we were all proud of him. And he never did anything to make you not proud. You know, you never felt embarrassed or ashamed of it or something. You know, he'd get in a fight with somebody. And because you loved him so much at that time, you were on his side. So it wasn't anything embarrassing at all if it was a problem.

I mean, a lot of that is sort of common Hill culture, I think. But in this case, it was really well deserved, I think. Well, I know that I spent about a year reporting from the Hill. And I remember that when reporters would try to get senators to answer questions right outside the chamber, you know, most of them, especially this would have been 2013, were just careful and either would say no comment or would say something really boring. And I remember McCain used to just love the reporters. And he would just stand out there and there'd be like 30 of us, you know,

blockading him basically, like elbows everywhere. And he would just give the most colorful quotes. And I think, I mean, I sort of wonder about some of this morning in the sense of I feel like, you know, and, you know, as a comms person, I get it. You want people to stay on message and all that stuff. But there's so few genuine people left in D.C. and, you know, yeah, McCain made people mad, but he also, he had a personality. He had character. There was genuineness. And that was, it was such a treat as a reporter to actually hear someone talk like a

normal person. Yeah, he was even genuine about sort of being ingenuine. You know what I mean? Like, he recognized sort of the absurdities of being a politician require the things that it makes you say. And that's what I was traveling one time with him to Mexico. We were doing a election observation mission. He was IRA. He was chairman of IRA for 25 years or so. And someone from the other side, which was the National Democratic Institute, was with us on the trip leading. So they were co-chairs. And he was just in the mode of, okay, whatever they want to do, let's do it. So we get in the van, okay, where do you want to go? Okay, let's go. That's where you want to go, let's go. So at one point, he wanted to go to a polling station. The guy from NDI said, we're going to

go to this polling station. I said, you know, John, they've got the press all lined up at the other place. And he goes, okay, forget that. We're going to go see the press. And he knew it was ridiculous. But he didn't care. That's just, you know, that came along with the territory. I think one of the, I wish I could remember who to credit you,

but I think someone was saying on Twitter, like he was one of the few genuine happy warriors, someone who brought a good attitude a lot of the time. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Walter. Yeah, sure. Glad to do it. Did you know you can now listen to all of our events. through SoundCloud or just by visiting our events page on Heritage.org, you now have access to hundreds of events and compelling discussions on policy issues

from your car, on the train, or the comfort of your own home. Visit heritage.org slash events for more information or search for the Heritage Foundation on SoundCloud. Well, our books going the way of the newspaper? A new study of American teenagers has some disconcerting data. Researchers at the University of San Diego found that a third of American teenagers hadn't read a book for fun in a year, and perhaps more tellingly, only 2% read the daily newspaper.

By contrast, in the 1970s, a full 60% of 12th graders read a book or a magazine almost daily. The study also provides some data on teenage internet usage. In 2016, the average high school senior spent six hours a day online. So, Kate, tell me, are we experiencing the end of Western civilization, or do you have hope? What a low stakes question. No, I don't think we're experiencing the end of Western civilization.

I mean, before the printing press, like, I don't know what teen literacy was in the 1300s, but I think we're going to be fine. All that being said, though, I do think it's, you know, it's sad. I think that, you know, something that I find myself increasingly grateful is that I didn't grow up in this era because I'm pretty sure that I would be using my phone all the time and not reading. I found as an adult, the more I use my smartphone, the harder it is to sit and read for even 30 minutes, which is ridiculous. So I'm not entirely surprised, but I think it does get at a real problem in that we have a lot of short-term thinkers and not long-term strategic thinkers. And part of that is because they're not engaging with extended thought that you see in books.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's sort of both in. I mean, when you're on your phone, you are reading very often. I mean, you're definitely reading when you're on your phone, whether it's an article or something short. We're watching videos. Or watching videos, right. So it's like you're reading, but there's also the constant potential for something else to pop in, like a text or an email or something else. And so it's, yeah, there's not that sustained kind of reading as a activity that's sort of separate. Right. And I think one of the more interesting observations about Donald Trump has been that he doesn't read. He doesn't read books. He writes books, but doesn't read them. And, you know, I don't think it's accidental that the president who is maybe best at modern communication and harnessing things like Twitter isn't a reader. I do think that in some ways there is a fundamental tension between the two, I would say. And I don't say this to say that, like, Twitter's all evil. I don't think that. I think there are.

certain advantages to Twitter. But I also think that it's one of those things that we should be thinking about, you know, what are we losing here by not reading? And, you know, yeah, what are, okay, so maybe two-thirds of teens are reading a book for fun, but even a third, I mean, I don't know, have they all already read Harry Potter? I mean, it just, it seems a little sad to not, especially if you're spending six hours a day on the internet. Well, that's the other thing. I mean, that, to me, that's sort of a silver lining. you do have these, you know, book series like, you know, Hunger Games or Harry Potter that are really popular among kids. My mom, side note, once couldn't remember the name of the Hunger Games, the title. And she was like, what's that book where the kid kills all the other kids, which is true?

But also, I was like, oh, yeah, it is really dark. Like Harry Potter feels so much more innocent in comparison. He kills all the other kids. I was thinking, what's that? What's that book with the, they're on the beach, the island. It's, you know, piggy. You know what I'm talking about? No.

The glasses, the conk and all that stuff. I have no idea what you're talking about. What is it, Michael? It's on the tip of my tongue and I cannot think of it. Our listeners are saying. Oh, wait, is this the famous one from the 50s? Yeah, it is. Oh, gosh, this is really embarrassing.

This is the bullying one. It's Lord of the Flies. Okay. I think I had my handy computer with me. Well, folks, if you want to write in and tell Daniel and I, that we should also get an education. That would not probably go amiss right now and be somewhat fair.

World of Flies is a great book, though. I haven't read it. I remember you in eighth grade, and it was a great story about, like, how civilization erodes into chaos and become less civil, and it's really a good work in, but, well, I was going to say political philosophy,

because it's basically kids, kids that represent society, but then they start, you know, making tribes because they're stranded on an island and then it just devolves ultimately into chaos. Interesting. So maybe along with 84 and Brave New World that deserves to be read? Yeah, I would definitely say so. I enjoy it as an eighth grader.

But anyway. I strongly feel Brave New World is the most related to our current times. Oh, totally. But just because the idea of everyone chasing happiness and not caring if they're sleep walking through life does seem true. And having a million options and none of them being an objective way to be fulfilled. And it's just like, yeah, yeah, I totally, I totally see that. Because the other one, what was the other one?

1984, right? That was like tyranny and oppression on the one hand. And then you've got Brave New World where it's like the opposite. It's like a tyranny of the self and you're enslaved to your desires. But not too. Like, it's sort of weird. I really think it's like, like, what's that drug soma that they have in Brave New World? It's like you're just happy enough.

Right. And that's better than living the full range of emotions with all the downsides that that brings. It's like The Giver. Did you ever see or read The Giver? No, dang it, Daniel. I didn't actually read The Giver. I saw the movie. Oh, that doesn't count.

I know, I know, but I know the story. I say having not done either one. Michael is just face palming right now. Our producer does that a lot. It's really not super respectful. It's a little bit like Roz and Frazier, if you've seen it. All right. Well, good thing we're not talking about movies because then it'd really just be like killing himself over there. All right. We're going to leave it there for today. But thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal podcast.

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