The Daily Signal - Ep. 286: Right-wingers at Facebook Advocate for Ideological Diversity

Episode Date: August 29, 2018

A hundred Facebook employees have joined an online group for ideological diversity at the social media giant--and of course, it's generating controversy. We discuss with Rob Bluey, our editor in chief. Plus: In the age of Tinder, more young people are rediscovering the value of so-called slow dating. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, August 30th. I'm Kate Trinco. And I'm Daniel Davis. Facebook is facing a new controversy over censorship, this time from within its own ranks. Dozens of employees at Facebook have banded together, saying their company has created a work environment hostile to political diversity. We'll discuss that major story with Rob Blewe, our editor-in-chief. Plus, in the age of tender, more young people are rediscovering the value of slow dating. We'll discuss that trend and more.

But first, we'll cover a few of the top headlines. When Judge Kavanaugh is confirmed, White House counsel Don McGahn will be stepping down. Trump tweeted Wednesday the news of McGahn's leaving and added, quote, I have worked with Don for a long time and truly appreciate his service. McGahn has been involved in answering questions related to Special Counsel Robert Mueller's Russia probe, and last year reportedly threatened to quit rather than fire Mueller, according to report with anonymous sources in the New York Times. Well, Wednesday was a big night for Florida that yielded some political surprises.

In the Democratic primary for governor, Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum came out on top in a major upset over former Congresswoman Gwen Graham, defeating her by three points. Gillum had enjoyed the backing of Bernie Sanders. He supports, among other things, abolishing ICE, a $15 minimum wage and expanding Medicaid. On the Republican side, Ron DeSantis, the congressman, secured the nomination for governor as expected, and Governor Rick Scott secured the GOP nod for Senate. In Arizona, the Senate GOP primary for Senator Jeff Flake seat, not the late Senator John McCain seat,

was won by Representative Martha McSally, who defeated Kelly Ward and Sheriff Joe Arpeo. McSally, who currently represents Arizona's second district, is an Air Force veteran who flew fighter planes in combat. Well, just a day after President Trump announced a preliminary trade deal with Mexico, Canada is voicing its optimism about joining the deal. Talks between the U.S. and Canada kicked off on Wednesday morning. Canada's foreign minister, Christia Freeland, spoke to reporters. Throughout the summer, and we are working extremely hard, extremely intensely, and we continue to be optimistic about the progress that we're going. we can make this week. Google is planning to skip a highly anticipated hearing on Capitol Hill next Wednesday on social media practices and Russian interference. Google CEO, Sundar Pichai, will not be

at the hearing, and the person Google offered as a sub isn't good enough, according to Senator Richard Burr, a Republican from North Carolina. At the Senate Intelligence Committee hearing will be Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey and Facebook's chief operating officer Cheryl Sandberg. While, after President Trump tweeted Tuesday that Google was biased, the company responded in a statement, quote, we don't bias our results toward any political ideology. Well, last week, two Iranian men were indicted for allegedly spying on U.S. and Israeli facilities, but a top GOP congressman says they could just be the tip of the iceberg. Congressman Peter Roscombe of Illinois said Iran has likely stationed multiple agents across the United States

to conduct intel operations. A development, he said, was enabled by the Obama administration. Roscombe told the Washington Free Beacon, quote, this is not a surprise, and this is a result of the Iran regime getting financial support from the Obama administration in the Iran deal. He went on to say, quote, unfortunately, it's all too predictable. Give a malevolent regime huge amount of cash with no restraining influence,

and this is what happens. That money from the Iran deal, he referred to, was $1.7 billion, along with unfreezing Iranian assets. The letter written by former Apostol Ignacio Carla Maria Vigano, accusing Pope Francis of knowing about former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick's inappropriate sexual misconduct and an alleged sanction placed on McCarrick by Pope Benedict the 16th continues to make waves. Cardinal Blaise Coupic of Chicago said this to NBC's Chicago affiliates.

The Pope has a bigger agenda. He's got to get on with other things. of talking about the environment and protecting migrants and carrying on the work of the church. We're not going to go down a rabbit hole on this. Meanwhile, Bishop Thomas John Paprocki of the Springfield, Illinois diocese, called Pope Francis's refusal to make a comment not adequate and said, given the gravity of the content and implications of the former Nuncio's statement, it is important for all the facts of this situation to be fully reviewed, vetted, and carefully considered.

toward that end, Pope Francis, Vatican officials, and the current Apostolic Nuncio should make public the pertinent files indicating who knew what and when about Archbishop, formerly cardinal, McCarrick, and provide the accountability that the Holy Father has promised. Well, up next we'll take a closer look at Facebook's diversity debate. Did you know you can now listen to all of our events through SoundCloud or just by visiting our events page on Heritage.org? You now have access to 100.5. of events and compelling discussions on policy issues from your car, on the train, or the comfort of your own home. Visit heritage.org slash events for more information or search for the Heritage Foundation on SoundCloud.

Is there a revolution brewing at Facebook? The New York Times reports that there is now an online group with about 100 members called F beers for political diversity. Senior Facebook engineer Brian Armeridge posted last week on an internal message board for the tech giant. that Facebook had a problem with political diversity. Quote, we are a political monoculture that's intolerant of different views, Amarage wrote. We claim to welcome all perspectives but are quick to attack, often in mobs, anyone who presents a view that appears to be in opposition to left-leaning ideology. Joining us to discuss is none other than Rob Lewy, editor-in-chief of the Daily Signal,

vice president of communications at the Heritage Foundation, and most importantly, a co-hosts of this podcast. Rob, what did you think about the news that Facebook GASP has people on the right working there? Well, you certainly don't hear about that often, do you? So it did come as a surprise. I think it's an encouraging development that you have employees speaking out internally at Facebook. I mean, certainly I'd much rather have changed from within Facebook than the government or some other outside entity in a position of power like Congress

trying to pass a new law regulating them. I think as conservatives, we need to be guarded about that. And we're going to have some hearings in Washington soon, which one of Facebook's top executives will testify at. So let me just say this also. You know, it's important to, as you said, Kate, look at the name of the group, which is political diversity. So we don't necessarily know if all 100 of these people are conservatives. I imagine that there are at least 100 conservatives at a company of 25,000 people. Oh, it's in California.

Let's hope anyways. But I think that the other thing to keep in mind here is this seems like it's as much of a backlash against the PC culture that some of these companies like Facebook exhibit as much as it is about, you know, pushing a conservative ideology. In fact, the gentleman who started this group said he subscribes to Ein Rand and her philosophy, which isn't exactly conservative. Right. Well, you know, this is an interesting. There's been a trajectory in recent years. years at Facebook about this kind of thing. Last year we saw James DeMore, you know, write an internal

memo. It was about exactly a year ago, actually, what this happened. And he got fired at Google. And this year, obviously, Facebook has gotten a lot more criticism from Congress, from the president, about its external policing of Facebook posts. Now it's happening within Facebook's walls. It makes you wonder if this is leading to some kind of boiling point. Well, that's a good point. So just so our listeners, understand. So basically what happened at Facebook is you have groups on Facebook. So anybody on the outside who uses Facebook, like us, we can create a group and we can, you know, promote whatever ideas we're wanting to do on that group. Facebook, for internal purposes,

for its employees, employees a private thing like that that operates in much the same way. So this gentleman created this group internally for employees and posted this description about what it is. And in that, in that description, I mean, yeah, you're absolutely right. He went through a variety of complaints. I'll read his quote directly. He said, they called me a transphobe when I called out our corporate art for being politically radicals. So, you know, clearly there's been some cases there in the California headquarters of Facebook where some people have felt uncomfortable because of some of the political comments that have been made. And that's why I think it's encouraging.

You did have James DeMore speak out. I hope that others will feel empowered to share their views and won't let the PC culture that I think so often takes over these plays. places when the day. No, I'm really curious what that piece of art was. He got in trouble for saying he's trans-po. I've actually visited the headquarters. As you might remember, I had the opportunity to go out there with former senator and former Heritage Foundation President Jim DeMint.

And from what I understand, there's a room at Facebook where employees are allowed to basically post-Arts. So I think it was an employee driven. and it could be anything from Black Lives Matter to promoting, you know, in this case, maybe a gay marriage or same-sex marriage type of thing. You could put a Trump poster up there for all I know. But in any case, we'll have to get to the bottom of that. I think it's a good investigative story for the Daily Signal if we can get access. But I think the one thing that struck me about this that seems to be lost in some of this is, remember, former Senator John Kyle was hired by Facebook earlier this year to do an audit.

And what got a lot of attention was the work that he was doing on the outside. So he spoke to conservative groups. We talked to him from the Heritage Foundation perspective and shared some of our concerns that we've heard from our own readers. We've done stories. I mean, here at the Daily Signal. So, you know, we passed along examples like that. The other thing that comes in place with Kyle's investigation, though, is an internal review of Facebook's culture. So that's the one thing that we haven't heard so much about.

So, Kyle will also be looking at the culture and hopefully providing some recommendations to the leadership of Facebook where they can find improvements. Well, it sounds like now is the perfect time for that to happen. You know, there's over 100 people in this group, as the Wall Street Journal notes. This is sort of out of the bag now. We all know about it. So it'd be really hard conceivably for Facebook to shut it down. What do you think Facebook does in the coming months? Well, Cheryl Sandberg, the second in charge at Facebook, so right under Mark Zuckerberg, is going to be in Washington testifying.

And Zuckerberg, of course, faced a barrage of questions earlier this year. You might remember the exchange with Senator Ted Cruz and which Cruz openly accused them of suppressing conservative content. So I think Facebook needs to tread carefully. I think shutting down a group like this would be an unwise move probably in advance of hearings because, you know, lawmakers would just grasp at something like that. and say that it proves their point. I think that these tech companies are going to have to answer some tough questions. It's also, I think, a pretty important moment for conservatives to step back and think about the types of questions that they want to ask at these hearings because they don't want to find themselves

in a situation where the Democrats are trying to use it as leverage to regulate these tech companies, which we know is not going to help conservatives in the long run. It's just going to distort the free market and take us down a path that we don't want to go. But first, I mean, I would say in Facebook's almost defense, You know, they do have Peter Thiel on their board. They do. He's a libertarian. I believe he spoke at the Republican convention a couple of years back.

And Mark Zuckerberg has taken enormous heat for him being on the board. He was a Trump supporter. And people wanted him off the board. And he refused to do that. So I will say that, you know, Facebook has shown some openness. It does seem like Zuckerberg and Sandberg are personally pretty far to the left. But, you know, hopefully they're acting from a spirit of goodwill. And I think also this reminds me of all the conversations.

that conservatives have had about media bias over the years. And it's often a similar thing that you have a culture where there isn't necessarily intentional bias, but the numbers are so skewed that this bias sort of becomes part of the culture because literally no one ever brings up the opposite position of, yeah, maybe transgender issues or other controversial issues. And I think if Facebook is smart, they will hope that this group actually grows and they will encourage people, like have a debate, have a discussion. Don't just say this is racist or transphobic.

Like, make your case. I think you're absolutely right. I mean, it's so important that they leverage this in a positive way. In fact, the group description, the internal group description, the one that's been circulating, cites Peter Thiel by name, Kate. So it says, he's talking about his fellow colleagues. Now he goes, we regularly proposed removing Teal from our board because he supported Trump. We're quick to suggest firing people who turn off. to be misunderstood and even quicker to conclude our colleagues are bigots.

So I think some of it is that kind of confirmation bias. You're not associated with any conservatives. But just as you noted on the show, there are some people, as that student in that one classroom demonstrated. Yes, the Sacramento. Yeah. There are people who are just so wedded to their beliefs and will not even tolerate conservative views that I imagine that the experiences that he cites in his letter

here are true. And there are people who don't want to, they just, you know, want to take it to that extreme level. No. And I would just say on that note, as you know, I grew up, it wasn't Facebook headquarters at the time. But my parents live basically right across the bay from Facebook headquarters. And that area, that part of California, right between San Jose and San Francisco, is off the charts, liberal. It's very unusual to have conservative beliefs, even Republican beliefs in that area. And if you really want to live in a bubble where you're not forced to ever interact with people who disagree with you, it's really where Facebook is. So it doesn't surprise me maybe that people would be this intolerant there. Well, and I wonder if Facebook takes some positive steps internally, this could actually give them some better perspective and help them be more prepared to treat everyone fairly outside of Facebook, people who are using Facebook.

because it seems that so much of the accusations of bias, that sort of thing, stems from a Facebook being in a bubble. I mean, Mark Zuckerberg noted when he came to Congress, we are kind of in a bubble. And he said, I need to make sure that I'm doing everything I can to put a check on that. So maybe this is that check. Jack Dorsey at Twitter said the same thing recently about he acknowledged his own liberal bias and the fact that he doesn't associate with conservatives. Now, I think that they've taken some steps.

For instance, the Heritage Foundation's Resource Bank conference this year featured somebody from Facebook who faced a barrage of questions from angry conservatives about suppression of content and bias and a range of other things. So, you know, there are instances where they're trying to do some outreach and make those, take those steps. Our colleague Genevieve Wood was at a meeting with Jack Dorsey at Twitter, you know, where he was trying to reach out to conservatives in new ways. But I think it needs to go much deeper than that.

It can't just be these one and done type of events. It needs to be a consistent basis. And I think as we've experienced at the Daily Signal ourselves, I mean, we've seen how Facebook's algorithm has changed the way that our content reaches an audience significantly different from 2014 and 2015 to today. And, you know, Kate, I have no evidence that they're changing the algorithm in ways that harm us from other publishers. But no doubt, it's created challenges for our organization as we disseminate our news.

Right. Absolutely. So I think it just goes to, you know, say how important these networks are. There really is no competitor right now to Facebook that's viable. And that's, you know, that is what it is. But I think it's also important to remember in this conversation we haven't talked about so much the left's pressure on Facebook. And I think, you know, that's maybe not as much on our minds. But I know that when you read liberal outlets or liberal tweeters, you always see it's Facebook's fault that Trump won, like fake news on Facebook. And, you know, you know, you know, you're you'll read these angry columns where people say, you know, the Republic is lost because of Mark Zuckerberg essentially. So I think it's important in a way for conservatives to keep speaking out about their concerns because I have no doubt Facebook and its largely liberal employee base are constantly hearing from their liberal friends and family. You know, you guys are destroying America. So it's good for the counterpush. Well, and thank you for raising that because one of the things I didn't mention when I cited the John Kyle example. So John Kyle's a former Republican senator from Arizona who now works at a law firm Covington and Burling. He's got a team of conservatives who work with him.

So they're the ones doing the audit on the conservative bias question for Facebook. But Facebook at the same time, I think out of pressure from the left, hired a civil rights leader by the name of Laura Murphy and the leadership conference on civil and human rights to do an evaluation on the left to make sure that Facebook didn't have the same concerns on the left. So everything needs to be balanced when it comes to Facebook. So it just goes. to show you there is pressure from the left. As we don't talk about it as much on the right here, they are just as angry, I think, in some respects.

I can't wait for the report that they found the one employee who still uses plastic grocery bags and not reusable or something. That person's going to be a major victim. Well, we'll keep following this story for sure in the weeks ahead. Rob, editor-in-chief of the data signal, thanks for joining us. Thank you. Well, more and more millennials are finding themselves frustrated by the artificial nature of dating apps.

The classic Tinder app continues to gain users worldwide, but some young people are creating new avenues. The Wall Street Journal details several individuals using new apps like Hinge, which is more involved than Tinder, and includes icebreaker questions and more detailed personal profiles, and people like Daryl George, a 39-year-old in Atlanta, who's involved in a dating club that is crazy, not based on technology. and to discuss this issue of great import to our society is Thalia Rampersat, our producer, who manages this podcast from behind the glass. Thalia, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me back on. It's always a pleasure. So, Thalia, this is interesting to watch. It's a trend that I want to ask you, first off, is this tender thing? Is it a bubble that you think is going to burst, starting with the young people? I absolutely do. I don't think this is something that we're going to be seeing down the line for generations to come. And my main reason for that is, and call me a bit old-fashioned and slightly sentimental, but being someone who loves the idea of storytelling, when we are entering into this age of people meeting on dating apps or websites or social media, we're running into this issue of what's the story of how they met. You're going to have to be telling people, how did you end up meeting. And so personally, I don't want to be the ones telling my kids, I met on a dating app. I met on a social media app. So I think that that bubble is going to burst and people are going to go back to the

old-fashioned way of dating, which is meeting people face to face. So actually, I have to say, while I share your affection for Meet Cute Stories, I do think there, I mean, I know people who married someone they met online and are very happy. And I mean, to a certain extent, the big thing is that you meet someone and you like them, which seems very hard sometimes. But I think dating apps specifically, I've been on some of the swipe ones, it's just overwhelming. There are so many choices. And yet you really don't get any of the important things about someone, so I could definitely see those getting out.

But Belia, we also brought you on today because outside of the podcast yesterday, for some reason we got into a very intense debate about arranged marriages, which is an idea that I've had several female friends float after another bad first date. And Thalia, you indicated you thought maybe a little bit more old-fashioned attitudes was the way to go. It's interesting to me that you brought up, that you have friends that may be... You know what? I do have friends, Celia, and that... Maybe in favor of the idea of arranged marriages, because that's refreshing to me, because I always feel like I'm the only one as an advocate for arranged marriages, especially at my age. which is of the younger generation.

Of the young variety. Yeah, exactly. And so, no, and so here's my opinion. Here's my quick thought. On arranged marriages, I don't agree with the idea of families already choosing who their child's suitor is going to be, whether the child likes it or not. Also, stop calling them the child. They're, like, of age. Well, it's the parents.

Arranged marriages involve the parents, heavily involve the parents, right? But we're not talking to this medieval. all nine and 12 year old get married. No, no, no. Child in relation to parents. Exactly. I get it. Yeah. Just to clarify.

No, I am in favor of parents setting up their adult children on dates or even choosing suitors that they think that their kids would match well with. And then having that person go out on a date with them and seeing if there is chemistry, if there's not, then you move on. But I'm not completely against parents setting up their children. and choosing, you know, I think this would be a good match for my child, mainly because I trust my parents enough personally to be like, okay, I know you well enough and I know who you would be interested in or what you would be interested in.

So, but what you just described, that wouldn't technically be arranged marriage in the classic sense, right? Like, it sounds more like arranged and assisted dating. Right. Assisted dating sounds like you're in a retirement home. So, yeah, but if this assisted dating, arranged dating, as you see, you're. so-call it turns into a marriage, then it somewhat is an arranged marriage. But I mean, I do think. A new version, but.

Actually, that would be interesting. And there is one blogger I follow who she met her husband because her mother met the guy at church and was like, I have a daughter and like showed him a picture and was like, add her on Facebook. They're married. They have a kid. It's a little bit weird. But it worked. That's a great example. I mean, honestly, what I felt this article really showed is the system is broken. I think there's a lot of reasons, but I think there are a lot of people who maybe want to be married and settled down and aren't. And I think that in some ways it is the overwhelmingness of choice right now. And I think that's partly because our culture has changed so much. We were saying that for us three, religion would be a big factor in dating. But for a lot of

more secular Americans, like they don't need to worry about the culture. They don't need to worry about the religion. They don't, like, it's almost like it's so boundless who you fall in love with now as long as you love them. Like, the feeling is the most important thing, not the foundation for a shared life, that no one can ever decide. But isn't it so interesting how with these dating apps and websites, you feel that you have this unlimited access to all of these people, but simultaneously if you shut the computer off or delete the app, you then feel completely on the opposite end of that spectrum where you feel like you can't meet anyone. Unless you, like, hit on the, them at Old Navy. Exactly. Unless you're Susan from the article and you hand out your business

cards to men that you find attractive in Old Navy. Which I just, I have so many questions. So Daniel, do you have any thoughts from the opposite perspective? I was going to say if a guy did that, it would be not as well received. Not in this Me Too movement. Not in the Me Too era. How would you feel you don't have to answer this? But if a girl gave you a business card, I don't know, wherever you lurk. I mean, I mean, she was cute. I'm okay with that. You're not on the side of men who are completely against women coming up to them.

Some men are like, I don't want a woman to hit on me. I want to do it. No, I don't want to feel like it's an aggressive kind of thing. But if it's like graceful, you know, that has a real charm to it. Okay. Well, if you like Daniel and see him in Old Navy, hand out the business card. And you're a Baptist, informed Christian. Well, we'll leave it there for today.

Thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal podcast, brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google, Play, or SoundCloud, and please leave us a review or a rating on iTunes to give us any feedback. We'll see you again tomorrow. You've been listening to the Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis, sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Rampersad. For more information, visit DailySignal.com.

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