The Daily Signal - Ep. 314: What Happened When a Pro-Kavanaugh Woman Went to a Protest

Episode Date: October 10, 2018

One of the left’s major strategies was to pit women against Brett Kavanaugh — and to label women who supported him as traitors to their gender. We discuss with two women who marched on Capitol Hill to defend Kavanaugh. Plus: We debate the new movie, “A Star Is Born.”We also cover these stories:--Nikki Haley, ambassador to the U.N., announced she will resign at the end of the year.--Kavanaugh announced his law clerks–all four of whom are women, a first for any Supreme Court justice.--The oil giant Exxon Mobil is donating $1 million to promote a tax on carbon emissions.--Kanye West is coming to the White House Thursday! The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, SoundCloud, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, October 10th. I'm Kate Trinco. And I'm Daniel Davis. After a bitter three-week fight that included more mudslinging than imaginable, Brett Kavanaugh now sits on the Supreme Court. One of the left's major strategies was to pit women against Kavanaugh and to label women who supported him as traitors to their gender. Today we'll be joined by two women who marched on Capitol Hill

to defend and support Brett Kavanaugh. Plus, we debate the new movie A Star is Born. But first, we'll cover a few of the top headlines. Nikki Haley, ambassador to the U.N., announced she will resign at the end of the year. She joined President Trump in the Oval Office to make her announcement and to celebrate the achievements of her tenure. First of all, I want to thank the president for just, you know, allowing us to come out and talk to you this way. It has been in honor of a lifetime.

You know, I said I am such a lucky girl to have been able to lead the state that raised me and to serve a country I love so very much has really been a blessing and I want to thank you for that. But I'm most excited, look at the two years. Look at what has happened in two years with the United States on foreign policy. Now the United States is respected. Countries may not like what we do,

but they respect what we do. They know that if we say we're going to do something, we follow it through. Tuesday was Brett Kavanaugh's first day on the Supreme Court with Chief Justice John Roberts remarking, it gives me great pleasure on behalf of myself and my colleagues to welcome Justice Kavanaugh to the court. We wish you a long and happy career in our common calling. Kavanaugh, whose wife and daughters were present for his first day, asked several questions during an oral argument.

He also announced his law clerks, all four of whom are women, a first for any Supreme Court justice. But of course, if you've listened to the Daily Signals interviews with former Kavanaugh female clerks, They've raved about what a great boss he is, so it's not so much of a surprise to us. Well, Senator Lindsey Graham played a key role in saving Brett Kavanaugh's nomination, and now he's still not letting up. The Senator joined Sean Hannity on Fox News and shared his concerns over the treatment of future Supreme Court nominees. We can't reward this behavior, because we'll just get a lot more of it. I think that's what Susan was understanding is that if she legitimized this process,

God help the next person to be nominated for the Supreme Court. If we legitimized this process, the rule of law gave away to the mob rule. The Heronaut standard is horrific. What was insulting is the way that the senator from Hawaii took everything we hold near and dear. By the way, Senator, you shouldn't be saying that. You should shut up and sit down. She said, men should shut up and sit down. Shut up, Senator, and sit down.

The only thing goes for me, too. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. right half the time. But the people of South Carolina gave me my voice, not the senator from Hawaii. And I chose to use it. Well, we've talked a lot in this show about the increased aggression from the left against some conservatives. And in an interview with Breitbart, Kelly Paul, wife of Senator Rand Paul, he's, of course, is the Republican senator from Kentucky,

discussed how she is worried about safety these days. Talk to me about some of the precautions that you've taken for yourself and for your own family safety. You know, we've, updated all of our security systems at home. We, I sleep with a loaded gun by my bed. You know, when I'm home alone a lot, obviously, with when Rand is up here. And so I've got dead bolts all around my house so that if someone's in my house when I go to bed, I'm deadbolted in three different levels. You know, I mean, and it's, it's bizarre that I've never been like this in my whole life. You know, we live in a fairly, I'm not a small town, but not a really big place. I've always felt very safe. You used to never even lock our doors.

and now that is all changed. And, you know, even going out to dinner in D.C. last night, you worry. You know, you hope that people aren't going to come up and just start screaming at you. Well, the oil giant ExxonMobil is donating a million dollars to promote a tax on carbon emissions. Well, that may come as a surprise move from an oil company, but according to the Wall Street Journal, Exxon officials expect regulations to ramp up sometime in the near future in light of fears over climate change. They say their proposal is a simplified version of carbon regulation

as opposed to more complex versions that could create more uncertainty for the industry. Okay, and Kanye's coming to the White House Thursday. Does that sound excited enough? Our producer told me to sound very excited. Okay, but in all seriousness, Kanye is coming. In a statement Tuesday, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, quote, Kanye West is coming to the White House to have lunch with President Trump, and he will also meet with Jared Kushner.

Topics of discussion will include manufacturing resurgence in America, prison reform, how to prevent gang violence, and what can be done to reduce violence in Chicago. I just want to see Kanye and Trump do a duet, live tweet together. I don't know. There's a lot of possibilities here. Something like that, at least a press conference in the Rose Garden or something. No, I don't want another press conference. I want, like, I don't know. I want like Kanye to wear his MAGA hat and throw it to Trump and Trump catches it and then starts tap dancing.

Do you think he'll arrive wearing it? his mega hat? Maybe, or maybe he'll wear. He has a clothing brand that he's very particular about that is, I think, is called Yeezy. All right, Kanye World is confusing. Anyway, he's coming to the White House. It's going to be epic, hopefully.

I wonder if Trump would introduce him as his new name. Yay. That's his new name. Yeah, he changed his name. From Kanye to Yeh. I mean, you do you. Kanye. Okay.

All right. He always does him. Well, up next we'll talk to two women who marched on capital. Capitol Hill in support of Brett Kavanaugh. Are you looking for quick conservative policy solutions to current issues? Sign up for Heritage's weekly newsletter, The Agenda. Each Tuesday in the Agenda, you will learn what issues Heritage Scholars on Capitol Hill are working on, what position conservatives are taking, and links to our in-depth research.

The agenda also provides information on important events happening here at Heritage that you can watch online, as well as media interviews from our experts. Sign up for the agenda on Heritage.org today. On behalf of our nation, I want to apologize to Brett and the entire Kavanaugh family for the terrible pain and suffering you have been forced to endure. Those who step forward to serve our country deserve a fair and dignified evaluation, not a campaign of political and personal destruction based on lies and deception. What happened to the Kavanaugh family violates every notion of fairness, decency, and due process. Our country, a man or a woman, must always be presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty. Well, that was President Trump on Monday night introducing for the first time, Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

The process was grueling and, at many times, grotesque, no method was spared in the attempt. to shoot down Kavanaugh's nomination. The protests were a little more than rowdy. Republican officials received death threats, and on the streets, those who marched in defense of Kavanaugh faced the scorn of the mob. I'm joined now by two women

from the Heritage Foundation who marched in support of Brett Kavanaugh. Amy Swearer is a legal policy analyst here, and Dylan Brandt, her first time on the podcast, works in the B. Kenneth Simon Center for principals and politics. Thank you both for being here. Yeah, thank you so much for having us.

Now, Amy, we saw your piece in The Daily Signal that came out on Friday, which talked about your time marching on Capitol Hill. Dylan, you posted later in the weekend on Facebook about your march on Capitol Hill. And I was very struck by the images of you holding that sign. I stand with Brett and all the protesters surrounding you. Tell us about your time marching out in front of the Supreme Court. Yeah, so I just went with a friend and I had a sign in Big Block, letters that said, I stand with Brett, and I marched right into the heart of the protests. And I certainly wasn't being antagonistic, except for, I suppose, holding a sign that disagreed with people

and shouts from women and angry faces of shame, shame on you. You should be ashamed of yourself. One woman looked me just dead in the face and said, I hope Brett Kavanaugh rapes you. I got called white trash. I just so many expletives. were shouted at me. And like I said, I wasn't being antagonistic at all. I was willing to strike up a conversation with anybody who was there. So just the fact that they were so willing and eager to shame women who disagreed with them was appalling and shocking to me. Was anyone willing to have a conversation or was it just pretty much, you know, chanting and shouting at you.

There was one woman who came up to me and wanted to have a conversation. and she said, regardless of whether or not you think that Brett Kavanaugh committed the allegations of which he's accused, these women do, and you are in their emotional safe space and you should feel sorry for that. And then she walked away. So it seemed like she was going to have a conversation, but she didn't want to have a conversation either. I would love an emotional safe space. Just a side note, that would be great for someone as moody as me. But Amy, you had a slightly different experience when you went up. out with, I stand with Brett Sine. Can you tell us how that went? Yeah, you know, it's funny listening

to Dylan. I'm actually struck by the sheer dichotomy of what happened. So we have some interns in our office and we like to give them, you know, various experiences. And on Friday, you know, we decided, like, let's just go get the lay of the land. Let's just go observe some of these protests. You know, this is a big event that is happening right in our backyard. You know, let's go. One of the interns had an I Stand with Brett sign that she had gotten earlier in the week. She was like, can I bring it? Yeah, sure. I mean, we weren't really there necessarily to engage in protesting, but we had the sign.

We brought it. Our goal wasn't to actually participate in protests. And so we kind of kept a respectful distance. We actually ended up doing this kind of lap around the Capitol, just trying to get a lay of of where all of the protests were happening and what was going on. For the most part, the protesters kind of ignored us. I think in large part because we weren't standing there, holding up the sign defiantly in their face.

We weren't in their emotional safe space. Right, right. You know, so we were largely just kind of ignored. We got some, you know, shouts of, you know, shame on you. Weirdly enough, some that were in this cadence that I guess they were all practicing, like, you should be ashamed of yourself. Yeah. As we're kind of walking along, what I was actually struck by was that, I mean, we could not go more than 30, 40, sometimes maybe 50 yards without having being stopped by non-protesters, by mostly tourists, actually.

People just out on walks, in fact, trying to stay away from the areas where protests were happening. And we were stopped by people who, you know, at first we were kind of wary, like, you know, what do you want with our size? You're going to break it, whatever. But by the numbers of people who actually wanted to take pictures with our sign, who saw the sign and feel like, oh, my gosh, me too. Do you have any extra signs? You know, and would stop us, you know, calmly just to thank us. All sorts of people from all over the country, Wisconsin, Georgia, Northern California,

the people out with their families, just, you know, and then on top of that, these looks that we would get where people would get our attention and just give us a thumbs up. you know, give us a smile and tell us how heartened they were to see that sign. And then, you know, they'd get even more heartened when we'd tell them, no, look, it's not just you. We've had dozens of people in the last five minutes stop us, you know, to thank us. And, you know, you're not alone. And that's really kind of what we came away with was all of these people who otherwise would have stayed silent.

You know, they were not counter protesting. They just out with their families trying to enjoy life. Just regular Americans. Yeah, just regular Americans. who, because they saw someone else making a statement, you know, felt kind of emboldened by it to be like, yeah, you know, you are speaking for me here. You know, even though I'm not out shouting, you know, that, those four words, you know, I stand with Brett, we agree with that. And so it's kind of this very interesting distinction between what Dylan and I ended up experiencing. Yeah. Yeah, and I think

that's interesting. I was talking recently to a friend of mine about the Kavanaugh case, and she's been spending a lot of time outside of Washington, D.C., and talking to activists in various states. And she sort of said along what you've just been saying, Amy. Like, you know, the media bubble seems to be largely focused on those against Kavanaugh, but there are a lot of people throughout this country who were really angry and wanted Kavanaugh in and were very upset about how he was treated. And I think that's something that's definitely been underreported.

But I also wanted to ask both of you and whoever wants to go first can, Why did you support Brett Kavana? I think that it's particularly important as women that we care about the processes of justice that are upheld in our nation. I think that importantly, this case and the political weaponization of sexual assault in the Me Too movement is really problematic. I think that it undercuts the value of the Me Too movement and forces people into two different camps, the camp where you believe accusers regardless of any or no evidence at all, or the camp where you believe that accusers are inherently seeking an agenda, be it for revenge or politics. So I think that that is a problem. I think that there's not a spirit of good faith in which

the two parties must come to the table. But supporting Brett Kavanaugh, I think his judicial record speaks for itself. I think that he, in any court of law, the calendars that he presented would have been exonerating evidence. I think that he is a fair and good ban, and he did everything to evidence that. Yeah, I mean, like, I'll tell you exactly what I told one of the women who actually stopped us, and she had her two teenage daughters there, and, you know, she was like, thank you for being a role model, and, you know, can you explain to my daughters why you stand with Brett? And it's more than happy to. I did not go to law school to learn all about basic principles of fairness and evidentiary procedures and standards that we have for analyzing

claims, serious claims of sexual misconduct. I didn't go to law school to then just abandon all of that in my everyday life. You know, I didn't go to law school to just abandon rationality and reasonable assessment of facts and evidence just because the accuser also has a uterus. I mean, that to me is absurd, you know, this premise of, you know, I say this as someone, you guys know, I've written on Me Too before I've written about some of my own experiences with being roofied in a bar and, you know, dealing with the implications of sexual assault. And I cannot for the life of me understand this, this thought process of saying, we must abandon basic fairness. We must presume that someone is guilty simply because it's not in a court of law. You know, we must believe women. Like, I clerked in a public defender's office for two years. I've seen women lie for various reasons.

I've seen men lie. It turns out women are human beings with all of the same propensities and frailties of men. And that's just the way that it is. And this idea that we just abandon facts and rationalizing. analysis for emotion is so contrary to everything that we learn as lawyers. And then, of course, when I actually engage in that rational analysis, I come to very much the same conclusion as Dylan. There's no corroborating evidence for a claim that should otherwise be easily corroborated.

And at that point, you have to start asking questions about, okay, what does that mean for essentially ruining a man's life? you know, and marring him with that claim. You know, and reasonable people might reach different conclusions, but I think that's an analysis that you have to make first. You don't start with, oh, I believe, a claim just because I happen to be the same gender as the accuser. Yeah, that's part of why I think Senator Susan Collins' speech on the Senate floor was so powerful. Phenomenal.

I mean, she was in such a pivotal position being kind of on, you know, I guess she was the 50th vote but then as a woman who is you know people thought might be on the fence actually laying out for 45 minutes all of the facts seemingly without any in political bias or influence from outside and it just seemed

throughout this whole process that the outcome was driving everything you can dispense with everything any sort of norms and ethics in fairness as you were talking about in order to achieve a certain outcome that you want. I think what's so telling to me is on social media, there were a number of people who

immediately after, you know, listening or I guess kind of listening to Senator Collins' speech, which was in and of itself phenomenal, very well laid out, but who immediately pounced on that as how dare Senator Collins attack Dr. Ford. When you listen to the speech, she's laying out just the realities of what. what came up and what didn't come up and what the accusations were missing in terms of corroboration, there was no personal attack whatsoever. And in fact, at multiple points, she praised people who come forward. That is a bold step to come forward with these allegations.

But at the end of the day, she laid out a very convincing, compelling case for what was missing with those accusations. And so to me that was telling that it immediately turned into, well, how dare you attack a survivor by pointing out that there are inconsistencies and missing gaps in the story. Yeah, I think that in this whole conversation, I think that if we really want to empower women, we have to demand justice within the framework that we're given. We can't demand special treatment. If we don't want to be seen as the weaker sex, we have to stop cheating the rule. I mean, could you imagine if this were a male accuser and someone were like, well, we have to believe him because he's a man. We must believe all men. The backlash would just, I mean, you would shut down the internet with that backlash. So, I mean, I agree. It's treat women equally by treating them like human beings, you know, in every facet and aspect of, you know, what it means to be a human being to have a faulty memory, to misremember things. to have motivations for being dishonest. And again, that's why we believe evidence.

You know, we don't believe people, especially not when the evidence seems contrary to that. Yeah, and just the same as perpetrators of sexual abuse should and rightly should be punished. I think that we need to seek to protect the men who offer us dignity and respect and treat us the way that we deserve. by undermining the intentions of those men, we throw out any incentive for them to behave well towards us. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to an extent I'd agree.

I mean, when men know that there's going to be no fairness in any sort of process. Doesn't matter what they do. Yeah. Well, come on. I would certainly know guys are good enough that they would first say that. No, and I don't mean to suggest that. Oh, it's going to be a free-for-all. But it certainly does, you know, put, I think, a burden on men that is unfair.

It's just like it puts a burden on women to be unanimously believed no matter what we do. You know, it's – and I think that was more what Dylan was getting at. Yeah, the burden of proof isn't on the defendant. That doesn't make – Right. And of course, it's absolutely traumatic to be accused of rape when you're innocent. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you very much for joining us to discuss this heavy topic.

and I guess we'll be having a quieter week in D.C. I hope so. Hi, I'm Kelsey Harkness, co-host of Problematic Women, a podcast in Facebook Live that showcases strong conservative women, current events, and the hypocrisy of the feminist left. Subscribe and tune in for our weekly episodes every Thursday, on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you get your podcast. A star is born, starring Bradley Cooper and singer Lady Gaga,

was the number two movie this weekend, and it's already a top Oscar contender. It's a remake of earlier Hollywood films all about how a woman meets a famous man, becomes a star in her own right, and then tragedy occurs. Now, beware, we are going to talk spoilers galore. So if you still want to see it and don't want to know what happens,

please, even though I never say this, tune out at this point. But joining me today is Celia Rampersad. She is our producer, but she is also part of T&G at the Movies, podcast favorite. And we also have our co-host, Jenny Montalbano. Daniel stepped out for this one because he hasn't seen it and is lame. Sorry, Daniel. But Thalia, let's start with you. What did you think of a star is born? So I have nothing but raving reviews for a star is born. With it being the actorial debut of Lady Gaga herself, as well as the directorial debut of Bradley Cooper, the combination, the chemistry between them is phenomenal and it really plays out well on the screen.

Okay, Jenny, what did you think about it? So I went into it more excited for Lady Gaga, but I came out of it more hyped up about Bradley Cooper. I just think I'm a huge country music fan, so hearing him just nail these songs got me really excited. When it comes to the ending, though, to me it ended so suddenly. My only critique was that I wish they would have had some more scenes afterwards to make it feel more closed, like the story had come to complete close. To me, the ending was just sudden. But I thought all around, it was really moving. really touching and the soundtrack was phenomenal.

So the ending that Jenny alluded to throughout the movie, Bradley Cooper's character, Jackson Maine, clearly struggles with addiction. We see him in the very beginning of the movie, taking pills and drinking a lot of alcohol. And it's something that just keeps on going. And then the tragic ending, which I looked up because it shocked me, and I thought I had seen a version of this movie before, but I apparently hadn't, is his character commits suicide. and it's incredibly sad. And I would say my main critique of the movie was not that the movie itself was bad.

There were certain parts. I mean, there were different things if I were the screenwriter, I say, without any screenwriting experience, that I would have done differently. But I felt in an age where suicides have gone up, it really bummed me out to see a movie depict it. And as Jenny just said, depicted it in such a way that they didn't really go a lot into the grief afterward. They did a little bit, but it felt like his loss probably meant a lot more than they showed. So I have a question for you, Kate.

Sam Elliott's character after Jackson Mayne has committed suicide. And that's Jackson's brother. Well, yeah, so Sam Elliott plays Jackson Mayne's brother. And at the end of the film, when Lady Gaga, her character, Ali, is grieving with Sam Elliott's character, you see Sam Elliott turn to her and say, you know, this was only his fault. This was nobody else's fault but his own. So do you then think that brings up a conversation of, you know, who is really at fault here? Because, spoiler alert, Jackson Main decides to commit suicide after he has a conversation with Ali's manager,

where he basically almost tears down Bradley Cooper's character Jackson Maine and belittles him to the point where, you know, he says that Ali, Lady Gaga, is not going to tell him any of the things the manager is telling him where he says, you know, she loves you too much, that she doesn't want to go on tour without him. And really, that was kind of the climax of the movie. So where do you think, I know I had conversations with the people I saw it with afterwards, who's where it's fault to be had there in terms of the suicide itself? You know, I think with suicide, it's, I guess I'm going to wies a lot of this and say, I don't know.

You know, it's a mental illness, depression, obviously. It's unclear to me how much is someone's choice versus a disease. You know, I mean, it's complicated. People are not in their right mind. But at the same time, I think one of the reasons it really upset me was that conversation you recounted where, yeah, essentially the Jackson main character was told his wife would be better with him dead. And that's exactly the sort of lie that people who are depressed believe that the world would be better with them dead. And that's so not true. And I think it also was sad because I am not 100% sure, but I think Bradley could.

Cooper has struggled with addiction. And to me, like in this age where people are using opioids and there seems to be a lot of binge drinking and like, you know, addiction just seems to be on the rise generally. Like, it is so powerful. And I don't want all stories to be happy or have rosy endings, but it just felt like, wow, if you'd shown this guy coming back from this addiction, that would have been so meaningful and so hopeful. And it can be done. It's super tough, but it can be done. So I don't know. It just felt like the wrong movie for this moment.

I agree. I thought it was so sad, especially, but I thought something that they did really well was the symbolism at the end when he says, I want to see you one more time. That's when I knew what was about to happen. I also liked the use of the dog, which actually, by the way, is Bradley Cooper's real dog.

Oh my gosh, the dog was so cute. The dog was precious. It makes me one another one. No, I think, actually, I should say, the movie did raise some interesting questions that I felt they didn't get into and I wish they had gotten into. One of the most telling is the Lady Gaga character, Ali,

originally started sort of singing country or folk, and then she sort of becomes like a Britney Spears type, this very, I don't know, salacious dancing and pop music. And this is not a family-friendly movie, FYI, just be aware. And Bradley Cooper's character kind of calls her on that. He's like, what are you doing? Who are you? What was your message?

What are you singing? And like even though he's an addict and even though he's struggling, he's really able to see more clearly than she is. And I thought that was a really interesting tension. But the movie doesn't really address that except at the end. She sort of goes back to her roots in her singing, but it doesn't really discuss whether she gave up being a stupid pop star or not. So I did a ton of research before I went into this movie,

just because I'm a movie nerd. This is why she's a film gig. And yeah, exactly. And so I read an interview where Lady Gaga, right before she was about to film that last scene, that ballad that they had written together. Lady Gaga had gotten news that her best friend was dying of cancer. And so she immediately got into the car and drove to go see her friend.

And right before she got there, her friend sadly passed away. And so then she had to then come back and perform that last scene. And she said in these interviews that it was one of the most difficult but also just powerful scenes that she's ever shot. And I think knowing that now holds a lot more weight as I watch that scene again. No, that's, I did not know that. Well, we'll see how it does in the Oscars. I'm sure we'll have T&G at the movies back for some Oscar chat at some point,

although I believe you guys are scheduled for horror movies. That's not me. That's just Michael. That's just G of TNG. Yeah, that's just G that time. I don't do more. Well, maybe Ginny will do it and it'll be G&G. I'll step it.

All right, well, thank you both for joining us and Leah for joining us on this side of the window. I don't know how to phrase it. And since Daniel's not here, I guess I'm going to do all of this. We're going to leave it there for today. Thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal podcast, brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google, Play, or SoundCloud. And please leave us a review or rating on iTunes to give us any feedback. And we'll see you again tomorrow.

You've been listening to the Daily Signal podcast, executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis. Sound design by Michael Gooden, Lauren Evans, and Thalia Rampersad. For more information, visit DailySignal.com.