The Daily Signal - His Research Was Co-Opted to Develop COVID-19 Vaccines. Here’s His Take on the Deadly Virus

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Biochemist Dr. Robert Malone’s breakthrough research in the use of mRNA medical treatments was co-opted by U.S. medical authorities and the pharmaceutical industry to create the “Warp Speed” COVID-19 vaccines. Since then, he has been on a mission to answer whether the coronavirus was engineered as a bioweapon or was simply done as legitimate research and other critical questions. He sits down with The Daily Signal to talk about what he found and his book about it, “PsyWar.” Subscribe to The Tony Kinnett Cast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tony-kinnett-cast/id1714879044⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Keep Up With The Daily Signal Sign up for our email newsletters:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.dailysignal.com/email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠     Subscribe to our other shows:  Problematic Women:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.dailysignal.com/problematic-women⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Victor Davis Hanson: https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL9809784327   Follow The Daily Signal:  X:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://x.com/intent/user?screen_name=DailySignal Instagram:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/thedailysignal/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.facebook.com/TheDailySignalNews/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Truth Social:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://truthsocial.com/@DailySignal⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/dailysignal?sub_confirmation=1    Thanks for making The Daily Signal Podcast your trusted source for the day’s top news. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and never miss an episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk. Business. I don't know if there's somebody who's more popular around here than Dr. Robert Malone. And his laugh tells you all of what he thinks of that fame. But Dr. Malone, it's a joy knowing that you're a Virginian that's gone out into the world and done amazing things. The MRNA research and breakthroughs that you made were amazing. And I remember when they came out and I didn't know who you were, where they were talking about the things they could help people in cancer treatments and things like that.

And your story art goes through the discovery that the government had taken the research and started to make these vaccines with it and all of that. And I know you've been on since then. I just want to catch people up that are new to the program. Look up Robert Malone. Cy War is the book. Yeah. Don't look me up on Wikipedia.

you'll be enormously disappointed unless you like spreaders of misinformation, which is another way of saying scientific dissidents. Right. Somebody who actually does science, finds an answer, doesn't start with the answer, and then do the science together. So how is CyWR selling? How is it being received because it's a chilling box? So it's selling well, but not as well as the prior one, my government told me, which came out at a very opportune moment,

when people were really first beginning to wake up. I think the Cy War topic area is a little, it's a little harder for people to wrap their arms around. It's a dark topic, and I, and I've chronicled it on my show, and I was actually talking about it with Aaron Siri from the high wire, I said, because, you know, to me, when you put together, and I heard the first time you did this presentation, It was a Children's Defense Fund banquet, get together, and you told, you laid it all out.

And I looked at my wife and I said, oh, my God, it actually makes sense in a dark, perverse way that they're saying, well, we need this kind of vaccine because there are bio weapons. We need to be ready to roll out these, you know, instant vaccines for our soldiers who are getting sprayed with bio weapons. And also the other parallel threat is emerging infectious disease because of, fill in the blank, climate change, environmental disruption, blah, blah, blah. So there's the engineered threat, pathogen threat, and then there is the emerging infectious disease threat. And the logic is that both of them represent such compelling risks that it's necessary to create a, risky technology in order to counter that threat. And, you know, here in our area of Virginia, Charlottesville, there is a defense training facility and think tanks associated with this.

There is truly an honest belief among a subset of people that this type of infectious disease threat is truly an existential risk for the human race. It is they believe that the human race is under great threat for an extinction of it. Now, the counterpoint to that is that we've been around for a little while. We've been coexisting with a lot of pathogens. We do have a very evolved immune system. And generally speaking, that immune system seems to work better when it's encountering natural pathogens than when it is prompted by various vaccine products.

But there is this logic that vaccines can do no harm. But at least that we could sue for. Right. And that they're absolutely necessary for every possible infectious disease threat. How long had the human race been around, Dr. Malone? You have a doctor on your name, so I can ask questions like this. How long had the human race been around before we invented vaccines? So that's an interesting question.

In a way, you're asking what were the first vaccines? No, no, I'm trying to make a point that the human race... Well, millennia is the answer. We made it this far, and then I understand the idea. of frightening disease. What I want to know is, you know, that if you're telling us we need to do this because people are making weapons out of pathogens, gain of function research, that kind of thing, I want to go after the people who are thinking that's a good idea and put them in a dark hole somewhere.

Because I, you know. But they feel very entitled to do this. and many of them believe that they are truly serving the national interest. I mean, if you're going to, I think it's important to try to understand. But not all of them are serving our national interest. They're serving some other nations. Well put. And the tension here is basically the same logic of mutually assured destruction

associated with thermonuclear weapons. that is also the case with the engineered super soldiers and transhumanism. That logic of we have to do it because they're doing it and they're going to do it to us unless we do it to them first, et cetera, et cetera. It all, I think the best, it's the best encapsulated. You might remember, I notice you have hair of a certain hue,

much like mine, and as a young whippersnapper. I died this so I can get away with not being ID. You may remember Mad Magazine. Oh, yeah. And you may remember Spy versus Spy. Oh, yes. And I think Spy versus Spy captures the essential truth of mutually assured destruction. It extends to all of these fields and the logic that they're going to do it to us unless we do it to them first.

Isn't there an essence of kind of a sad feeling that the citizens of the United States, States are not capable of understanding what's really going on or what the threat is. And so we have to keep that from you. And if you try to find out, we will circle the wagon. Absolutely. It's a strange arrogance. It's like a reverse arrogance. Like they are sure that we couldn't handle the truth. Yeah.

Like Jack Nicholson. But that they can. Right. That they are the anointed. And this gets into cultism, priesthood. Scientism as a religion. We've argued that scientism in a government that is so rigorously enforcing the separation of church and state, they have created their own religion now, and that is the religion of scientism.

Right. Which really is the... Here's my answer. Go get me an equation that gets me there. And there is a priesthood. And there's a hierarchy and all of the above. And that, I think, is just as much a problem as any of these other things. It's a deeper problem.

It's a quite broad. I was going to say, because we're not all that far removed from the eugenics movements where, you know, science, government, and the pseudo idea that there were right people, you know, good, good biological humans and bad biological humans. Isn't that far removed from our society? It underpins the logic of the super soldiers. It underpins transhumanism. None of that logic has gone away.

It's just been rebranded. Laundered. Yeah. It's easier to discuss at a cocktail party. So do you see it getting better? Dwight Eisenhower 70, years ago didn't seem to think it was going to get better he warned us about this he was prescient wasn't he oh my gosh amazingly prescient well when you look at america's two greatest generals who

probably won freedom for more humans on the planet than i'm waiting for the second one washington washington okay warning as they leave yes public space yes right right warnings of of the possibilities and the dangers and the perils. It's like putting a handgun down and not warning somebody that, you know, you have to point it that way. And that's what I feel like is happening, is we've got people who aren't married to the idea that just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to do that something.

But that has been the history of the human race. Yeah. That, unfortunately, I'm kind of lived it. Any new technology that can be weaponized will be weaponized. And it's a shame because yours was such a great breakthrough in the ability to treat illness. It could, it has potential. It is a whole new drug category. But I'm not, I don't want to get ahead of my skis here.

I think that let's just say it's currently unrealized potential. I just, I remember when it was announced and I had. had no idea who Robert Malone was or anything else. They said, well, they've come up with a way where they can target chemotherapy and instead of playing chicken with the host and seeing which one dies first, the cancer or the host, they could target and there might be really hope that we could do a lot of. Yeah, so really what you're talking about is the idea of immunotherapy

and cancer vaccines. Yeah. And there have been some advances in that area that don't involve this technology, but involve fundamental advances in understanding the immune system, many of which kind of emerged out of the huge amount of money that was spent on AIDS, giving credit where credits do. And I think we learned a lot about the immune system.

We also learned a lot about ourselves with Anthony Fauci and everything else. And what happens when people have more authority than perhaps even... Or the Constitution was... Common sense, let's say. There were no guardrails on his power. But well put. And living near D.C., we understand that dynamic. Yes, without question.

And I think Madison, when he concocted the rulebook to try to make Jefferson's fancy flowing words into an actual government, he envisioned a way. Because in 1791, we knew what the seven vices were. And we knew that we were more likely to indulge those. Right. And he said, if we give power to 100 people, they're going to start multiplying their own jealousies, their own greed, their own sloths. And so Patrick Henry has stand against the central government, the insistence on a Bill of Rights and that kind of thing. We've made a long time, 250 years of this country, and we've managed to live longer than a lot of other companies. We've had some hiccups.

There was this little, the War of Northern Aggression. Yes. To quote my family down in Georgia. And, you know, there's many in our state still remember that in the same way. Despite the statues all being taken down. So where the movement you see, and I know you did the great debate, you know, about vaccines and health care, where do you feel like it's going? like it's tacking in the right direction, or are we still adrift in some very perilous waters? Can we be both?

Yeah. I think, I think personally, I'm optimistic. I certainly don't want to come across as a nattering nabob. A doomsayer. A doomsayer. Hennie Penny, saying the sky is falling. The sky is absolutely not falling. Right.

And the human race has an amazing ability to be resilient, despite all of our efforts to screw it up. We are a creative bunch. Yes. So here we are in this libertarian festival that we call Freedom Fest. And what I see is the logic of libertarianism is gaining more and more traction among many American citizens. I think that the COVID crisis has been putting a positive spin on it, looking for the silver lining. It has allowed many to perceive things that a few voices in the wilderness, like Ron Paul, have been observing for a very long time. I'm trying to get the rest of us to notice.

And now many people are paying attention. And that's a good thing. And they are looking for alternative solutions, new solutions. My concern, as in a way a student of warfare now, we wrote a book about fifth generation warfare, Cy War book, that is very much informed by what happened during the COVID crisis, but the whole history of propaganda, starting with Edward Brunais. and I've recently written an essay about seventh generation warfare, which is really well embodied in this recent action of Ukraine against the Russian bomber fleet.

And drone warfare, AI, and robotics. Yeah, soldierless war. And so that is, I think it's a, you know, we, it's funny how we have these kind of prescient movies like the Matrix that has become a dominant metaphor and of course Terminator in Skynet. That's not the one Elon Musk. No, that's a different name. Yeah, well, Skynet was the Terminator series, right?

I know, yep. And so a case can be made that we're approaching that nexus where civilization, is going to be encountering autonomous battle drones, driven by artificial intelligence, and we've learned again and again that AI will do strange things to avoid being turned off, et cetera, et cetera. So that those are foreshadowing. We're also learning that AI,

like anyone who's on the internet too long, starts to go to the porn sites a lot. I missed that. I saw that story. But the hallucination certainly is. a major issue. Yeah. And so the question is, can we get our act together politically and socially?

Socially, more than politically even, I think. You know, as Andrew Breitbart said, you know, politics is downstream from society. If society doesn't get the check up from the neck up, then politics certainly isn't going to lead the way. Yep. So it's going to be interesting times. I'm not pessimistic. I'm having fun. I think we need to be happy warriors.

Remember Ronald Reagan. And don't despair. But do your best to create personal physical connectivity with other human beings. We need it. We don't want to live in a Facebook world of AI-driven friends. It's not good for us. and if we stick together, we can succeed. And as they say, if we don't hang together,

we shall surely hang separately. Exactly. That's right. Dr. Robert Malone, thank you so much, sir. It's always a joy to talk to you. And Cy War is the book and get it and be chilled a little by it, but I think take heart your view on. Yeah, but my hope with the book is that if you become aware,

of the technology, then you become less susceptible to it. That's the whole purpose. Don't be frightened by it. Just learn about it and strengthen yourself. As that great university of lore, favor college slogan says, knowledge is good. There we go. Dr. Donne. Thank you so much, sir. And enjoy the remainder of Freedom Fest. Thanks. Thanks for your own. Subscribe to get the news. The legacy media won't tell you and only the daily signal can bring to you.