The Daily Signal - How Public Sector Unions Are Failing American Workers

Episode Date: April 9, 2021

Public employees across America are growing weary of unions that do not represent their interests, says Elisabeth Kines, the national executive director of Americans for Fair Treatment.  Kines helps public sector employees, such as teachers, to understand their First Amendment rights and to stand up to union pressure. She says conservatives used to be the only ones reaching out for help. Now, she receives lots of calls from politically liberal individuals who have been abused or bullied by their union and are asking for help. Kines joins “The Daily Signal Podcast,” to explain how unions have come to yield the power they do and what Americans for Fair Treatment is doing to serve the needs of public sector employees.  We also cover these stories:  President Joe Biden announced a number of new executive actions intended to curb gun violence. In March, an estimated 172,000 migrants sought to cross the U.S.-Mexico border. The gap in Americans’ political party affiliation is wider today than it has been since 2012, according to a new Gallup poll.  Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Friday, April 9th. I'm Kate Trinco. And I'm Virginia Allen. Public sector employees across America are growing weary of unions that do not represent their interests. That's why Americans for Fair Treatment is stepping up to provide resources for workers who are tired of being bullied by their unions. On today's show, I talk with Elizabeth Kines, the National Executive Director of Americans for Fair Treatment. treatment. She explains how unions have come to yield the power they do and what her organization is doing to serve the needs of public sector employees. Don't forget, if you're enjoying this

podcast, please be sure to leave a review or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now on to our top news. Speaking from the Rose Garden of the White House on Thursday, President Joe Biden announced a number of new executive actions intended to address. gun violence. Biden called the gun violence in America an epidemic and said his administration would pursue several different actions to curb the violence per MSNBC. I asked the Attorney General and his team to identify for me immediate concrete actions I could take now without having to go through the Congress. And today I'm announcing several initial steps my administration is taking to curb this epidemic of gun violence. Much more than that.

need to be done. But the first, first, want to rein in the proliferation of so-called ghost guns. These are guns that are homemade, built from a kit, and include directions and how to finish the firearm. You can go buy the kit. They have no serial numbers. So when they show up at a crime scene, they can't be traced. And the buyers aren't required to pass the background check to buy the kit, to make the gun. Consequently, any of the crime scene, they can't be traced. And the buyers aren't required to pass a background check to buy the kit to make the gun. Consequently, anyone, anyone from a criminal to a terrorist can buy this kit as little as 30 minutes put together a weapon. You know, I want to see these kits treated as firearms under the Gun Control Act, which is going to require that the seller

and manufacturers make the key parts with serial numbers and run background checks on the buyer, when they walk in to buy that package. The president also directed the Department of Justice to make it easier for states to adopt red flag laws. Red flag laws allow a family member or a law enforcement officer to petition a court to remove a firearm from an individual's custody

when the owner of that gun is believed to be a danger to themselves or others. In addition, Biden said that pistols that had been modified was, stabilizer braces should be subject to the National Firearms Act. The act requires a gun buyer to submit background information and pay $200 to the Justice Department. Biden stated that none of his recommendations infringe on the Second Amendment. In March, 172,000 people tried to cross the U.S. Mexico border, according to new numbers released from U.S. Customs and Border Protection. That is a 71%

increase over February. Troy Miller, the Customs and Border Protection senior official, performing the duties of the commissioner, said in a statement that the agency has an experience an increase in encounters and arrests. This is not new. Encounters have continued to increase since April 2020. According to the Washington Examiner, 172,000 is the highest number of would-be border crossers in 15 years. The gap in Americans' political party affiliation is wider today than it has been in almost a decade. A new Gallup poll reports that 49% of American adults either identify as Democrat or as independent but lean Democrat. By contrast, 40% of American adults say they are either Republican or lean Republican.

The 9% gap is the largest gap in political party affiliation gap. Gallup has seen since the last quarter of 2012. Now stay tuned for my conversation with Elizabeth Kines, the National Executive Director of Americans for Fair Treatment, as we discuss the ways in which public sector unions are no longer representing the interests of American workers. I'm Zach Smith. And I'm John Carl O'Conaparo. And if you want to understand what's happening at the Supreme Court,

be sure to check out SCOTUS 101, a Heritage Foundation podcast. We take a look at the cases, the personalities, and the gossip at the highest court in the land. Be sure to subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you find your podcasts. It's SCOTUS 101. I am so pleased to be joined by Elizabeth Kines, the National Executive Director of Americans for Fair Treatment. Elizabeth, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. It's really great to be here.

To begin, could you just explain a little bit of the mission of Americans for Fair Treatment? and then what it is that you do as the National Executive Director? Yeah, so Americans for Fair Treatment is a fairly new organization. We work with public sector workers, specifically state and local employees, primarily in Pennsylvania and New York, and we educate them on their First Amendment rights as it pertains to union membership. So we like to say we help people move from a place of union dependence to union independence. And we also, from time to time, will offer counsel and assistance for folks who are looking to form an independent local union. That's excellent. That's such a needed and specific really field, especially right now. We're hearing so much about unions.

And in your position as the national executive director, what role do you play within that larger mission that Americans for Fair Treatment has? Yeah, so a lot of my background is working with startups, actually, in the entertainment and tech industry. So the bulk of my day-to-day is handled with operations, kind of building the infrastructure of our organization so that we can be a truly national organization. So I like, we have a Slack channel internally, and I say that my bio is I heard cats. So I feel like a lot of times I'm managing relationships internally and externally. I work with a lot of national partners and then state partners. And then from time to time, I am on the phone assisting workers who are interested in resigning their union membership or opting out.

So every day is a different day and I love it. I love it that way. So how exactly did you get involved with this issue, especially because like you said, your career really started in the music industry, correct? That's right. I moved to Los Angeles in 2001 after I actually got a journalism degree and I went to work for the publicity department of a record label. And unions didn't impact my daily life as far as my job,

but I lived in a city where everybody seemed to be in TV and movie production. And I saw firsthand like what unions did to an industry and then a city and then a state. And so I lived in California for about 12 years. And over that time, it was just fascinating to me to see the power of these, these were primarily private sector unions that I saw, but things like SAG AFRA or the Writers Guild, but I would see my friends deal firsthand with this frustration of these massive organizations that were not representing them. And there was really nothing they could do. They couldn't work if they weren't a member of the union.

And that really impacted me. And I've always been fascinated by public policy and politics. And I just, I started to see all these dots kind of connect. and it all went back to the role of unions in America. And I think a lot of people, I mean, I was this way. I thought of unions as something that was sort of a factory floor type of need. And I thought of Sally Field, you know, Norma Ray with the big union cardboard sign, you know, fighting for her fellow workers. But what I saw in my day-to-day life was very different.

These were affluent college-educated workers who were held back by these, you know, really large special interest groups that, you know, were unions. And so when I left tech, when I left California and moved back east, I decided, you know, I want to be a part of making work, again, for these different workers and specifically public sector unions. What I saw in California obviously was private sector. That was, you know, the movie industry is not a public entity. But when I did more research, I learned that public sector unions, so these are the unions that represent teachers and state workers and local workers and local. local, municipal workers, that actually represents the largest unionized workforce in America. And so I was just mind-boggling to me as I started to do my own research. And so I, after a few years working in state policy for two different think tanks, I decided

to devote my career to helping public sector workers, you know, learn how to exercise the First Amendment right and to learn that there are options. They don't have to stay in these situations where they're represented by these very political organizations that may not truly represent the individual worker. Well, and how have unions become so political? Because I think, you know, as you were talking about, for many Americans, we kind of picture this, you know, unions as being something that, you know, is trying to protect, you know, the safety of those individuals who are on, you know, the floor of some big manufacturing

company or something like that. So what was the original intent of public sector unions and then what has changed over the years to get to where we are now. Yeah, so I think the original intent, you know, they were actually public sector unions were created by an executive order by President Kennedy. So this was a long, long time ago. And I think the intent was, you know, really just to give these workers a voice to ensure that they had, you know, I mean, I'm not quite, to be honest, I'm not quite sure as far as

what the working conditions were that were so bad that would require a union. But I think part of it was to ensure that these. workers had really solid benefits. And, you know, a lot of times people who enter public service, they commit their entire career to serving the public. And with that, you know, a lot of times they're paid less than people in the private sector. So if you've got a secretary who works, you know, in state government, a lot of times they're going to make less money than someone in the private sector who works maybe at a corporation. So I think the original intent, though I was not there for the signing of that executive order, was, you know, to make sure that these

truly public servants, you know, were taking care of, that they had good benefits and could count on a solid retirement plan. From there, there was one political party that specifically looked at this as an opportunity to sort of mobilize and organize specifically women, immigrants, and racial minorities. And so that's kind of what we've seen in the 70s, 80s, 90s, you know, all the way up to today. So a specific way, because I get asked this a lot, public sector unions give a lot of money to political candidates. So I'll give you an example. President Biden, who is obviously in office now, actually got more money from teachers unions than any other union. So a lot of times when we think of President Biden, we might think of him giving a speech on a factory floor in

Pennsylvania. But the reality is the bulk of his union support, as far as monetary support, has come from teachers' unions. And public sector unions spent just over $14 million in lobbying in 2020. And And then on top of that, on top of the lobbying expenditures, they're supporting, you know, different candidates. So that could be presidential. It could be local. I lived in Connecticut for a while, and I saw this firsthand, even at school boards, you would see union-backed candidates.

So the way that they get involved in politics is very clear. A lot of it's money. And then they have training programs for new candidates. And then they will, you know, support a candidate publicly. So it's sort of this complicated web that is very expensive. And I think the issue for a public sector worker is that this is tax money. So instead of the money that was spent on Biden's presidential campaign going to raise teacher salaries or to support teachers in the classroom, the union is taking that, you know, those dues or that pack money and giving it to a politician. So I think the workers that I work with from day to day, the teachers and state and local employees, that's where the rub is.

are very upset that, you know, their money is spent on something without their consent that does not improve their working conditions. And as you talk with these individuals, is that the main reason why they, you know, they want out, why they, you know, no longer want to be a part of the union is because they're seeing their dues go to maybe a politician who they don't agree with or a cause that they don't support? I would say that's the number one reason. But so there was a Supreme Court decision in 2018 that is often referred to in our work, it was the Janus v. AFSCME decision. So this was a gentleman named Mark Janice, who was from Illinois.

And he, exactly what you said, opposed the political nature of unions and the way that they spent money. But what's interesting, so that decision was in 2018. And I would say, like, the first year and a half, everybody I worked with, I mean, I've worked with dozens and dozens and dozens of state and local employees. who wanted to leave their unions. And the story was kind of always the same. I don't like how they're spending money. Lately, however, I'm getting these wild stories from people who will talk about, you know, being bullied in the workplace. They're being denied, you know, a lot of times you might have

seniority, especially for a teacher. You've been there X number of years. And with that come different privileges or, you know, different, you know, like where your classroom is, things like that. They're being denied that is a lot of this, just internal favoritism within the unions. And so you have this very corrupt system that's taken hold and it's upsetting. And so one thing that's been fascinating is I've seen a trend from, you know, a lot of the people I worked with in the beginning were usually very conservative workers, very, you know, conservative individuals. Now I get a lot of calls from people who say, I'm a Democrat or I'm a classic liberal or I'm a, you know, fill in the blank. And normally I would like a union, but, and then they share a story of how, you know, they've been

abused or bullied or harassed or whatever's happened. So what's interesting is now I think a lot of people are kind of looking around, particularly in light of what's going on, what's the school closings. And they're saying, you know, my union, I had a real grievance. I had a real problem at work. And I went to my union. I followed the protocol. I asked for help. And my union didn't help me. But I see my union steward or my union president on the nightly news talking about issues that impact people in another city that, you know, don't impact me. They're talking about defunding the police. That doesn't impact me, you know, as a teacher in the classroom. So it's, it's been a real sea change, particularly since the pandemic started and the types of employees and teachers that have been reaching out to us

for help to leave their union. Wow. And that's definitely, it's such a critical issue. It's something we've talked a lot about on this podcast is this whole issue of, you know, classrooms and school reopenings and teachers feeling like they don't have a voice really amid, you know, the unions being so powerful. So what can be done to preserve, you know, the free speech rights of individual teachers who don't support the public policy stance of their union leadership? I think the easiest sort of first step that a teacher could take specifically or any employee, you know, at a school district would be, you know, you can opt out or resign your union membership. That's your right. That's your First Amendment right to do so. If someone has trouble

opting out, I think that's where we step in and we can help either walk them through the process or we can assist in the process or we can point them to free resources. A lot of time, free legal help to make, you know, that opt out happen and those do stop coming out of their check. But more than that, I think there is power and just like the union says, there's power in solidarity, there's power in transparency, there's power in, you know, people getting together and, you know, talking, sharing information, but also standing up for, you know, what is right. And I think that's what we're seeing a lot of. So AFFT, as we call ourselves, because Americans for Fair Treatment is the longest email address I've ever had. So at AFFT, we actually have a membership program. It's a free membership program for. state and local employees. And as part of that, we just encourage our members to talk to one another, and then we try and share their stories. So sometimes we might help them write an op-ed for a paper, or we might write their story or kind of a testimonium for our website. And what we're seeing is people are encouraged by the stories of others, and they get, you know, get strength from the stories

of others and knowing that they're not alone, that they experience, you know, whether it's, again, like I said, the bullying, the shame, the lack of representation, that they are not the only teacher facing that or the only state or local worker facing that. So I would say, you know, if there's a teacher listening today, your first step could be, you know, try and opt out, you know, if you need help, we're here to help you. And then from there, you know, talk to your colleagues or reach out to us if you want to be connected. And from there, there are so many options. I think One thing we're seeing an increase in desire, specifically in the Northeast, people, you know, they want to associate. That is a First Amendment right, the freedom to associate.

But when you flip that over, you don't have to associate. You shouldn't be compelled to associate with a group that you don't agree with. So what we're seeing is, especially for workers in schools, you know, who maybe are not teachers, but, you know, support staff. we've had quite a few people reach out to form local independent unions. So they believe in the power of, you know, association and working together for a common good, but they don't want the politics. So that's something that I think we'll probably see more of. We'll see more people say, I like the idea of a union, just not my union. It's sort of like that sort of expression.

I love my congressman, but I hate Congress, you know. So we're seeing that happen a lot. And I would imagine we'll see an increase in that, specifically on the West Coast and Northeast. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, so many of these public sector employees, they just want to be able to do their job, just do the job that they were hired to do and not get super involved in the politics. But, I mean, is that even possible anymore that they can stay out of the politics if they don't want to be a part of the union? It's very hard. So I think a lot of times when I talk about unions, And, you know, I worked for many years in California, but I was raised in South Carolina. And so when I talk to my family or my friends from back home, you know, they immediately, I can see their eyes glaze over and they're like, we don't have unions here. This isn't a problem. Our government workers are not unionized. This isn't a problem. And the reality is, even for a teacher in South Carolina where the union does not actively represent them in, you know, negotiations with the school district or, you know, with the state, the union's actually very involved in that state. They have a chapter. like the NEA has a chapter. So the NEA, the National Education Association, is the largest teachers union in the country. And they have chapters in every state. And the chapter in South Carolina, the SEA, is actually, you know, pretty active. And so what I see happening is whether teachers see it or not, and whether they're a member of the union or not, the teachers unions are inherently political and all of their activity is political. And so really the only way to step outside of that is, you know, to stop. being a member of the union, not join a union. We try to tell a lot of new teachers, you know,

think before you sign the member card, because a lot of times now that member cards for life, you know, you're signing language that you'll pay dues, you know, as long as you're employed. But I think outside of that, it's, you know, I think for teachers specifically, I think that's how they can kind of push back is to say, I'm not going to be a part of this machine. I'm not going to write a check, you know, out of my paycheck, you know, to pay for union dues. But I think for the general public, the reality, is unions are not only political in the classroom or with curriculum, but they're very political with school district, you know, school boards, what's happening at the school district. So I think

what would be important for people to understand is that this is not just something that impacts teachers who are a member of unions. This impacts every aspect of education, public education. So I think for teachers who want to step out of that, the best thing to do is to resign from their union and then just, like I said before, find solidarity and like-minded coworkers and speak up because until we break this system where the unions are bankrolling candidates for school board, you know, their bankrolling candidates for local representation or federal representation, until we can break that, until the unions are no longer writing curriculum like Common Core, this is a problem that will continue to exist. And I think you're going to see it in non-unionized counties

like Fairfax County, Virginia. I mean, it's playing out in a massive scale in that county, and the union doesn't even represent those teachers. So I think right now we're at a really pivotal moment for teachers and parents, I would say, where they have to recognize the role that unions play and then they have to actively push back. So it's, it seems like an overwhelming task, but it's actually, I think, you know, unions didn't get this way in a day, and I think we can push back on them, you know, little by little every day and we can make a difference. I see it, you know, in all these parent groups around the country. And then I see, I mean, we get dozens and dozens and dozens of requests from teachers to push back.

So I think the hard part is the media right now is not sharing those stories. And that's why I'm, you know, so glad to be here today to be able to share this whole other side that the union is not as powerful as, you know, I think that the New York Times might have you believe. Yeah. Yeah. So how are you all, you know, getting those stories out and how are you pushing back in order to really read? represent, you know, these teachers well, these individuals who work in the public sector well. And then are there specific states and, you know, policy issues that you're really focused and targeted on this year? So I think the first thing is telling stories is so important. You know, I think Joan Didion,

I think once said, you know, we are wired to tell stories to kind of make sense of the world around us. I think I may have butchered her quote. But it's true. You know, we as humans tell stories. That's how we, you know, preserve history and make sense of what's happening around us. We share experiences. So I think one thing for us as an organization is to tell the stories specifically right now of teachers and what their experience in a union is like. So we might help, you know, write an op-ed, like I said before, or tell their story, you know, on our website or something like that. But specifically, when you ask about states that we're involved in, you know, we are heavily involved in Pennsylvania and New York, but then we've also been, you know,

quietly connecting teachers in Virginia with teachers in Pennsylvania and New York so that they can hear firsthand these teachers in Virginia what it's really like to be a teacher in a union high school. What is it really like to have a union represent you at the bargaining table to represent, you know, all the interests that are intertwined with your job, you know, what classroom you get, your pension, your hourly wage, your salary, you know, whatever. it is, this other group is representing you, and you're no longer able to go straight to your employer to talk about, you know, issues or ideas that you may have related to your employment. So the first thing I think that we try to do is to tell these stories and to connect these people on the ground.

And then the second thing is, you know, for people who are in places to make decisions, I mean, I think particularly lawmakers, municipal leaders, state leaders, you know, people who are active, engaged in policy, we also try to share these stories and then connect these decision makers with the teacher or with the school employee. Because what happens a lot of times I see is that the union will come in. I mean, I saw this so much. I lived in Connecticut for a couple years, and I would see this in Hartford. The union would come up with a bus full of people. They would all, all these people would get matching T-shirts and a free lunch, and they'd be asked to stand around the legislative office building or the state capital.

you know, on a day that maybe a vote or a hearing was taking place that impacted the union. And I remember a lot of times I would see these people and I would just say, like, hey, what's your name? What do you do? What do you hear for? And I don't think I ever had a worker, an employee, tell me, I am here because I'm passionate about fill in the blank. They would all say, I got a free day off work and a trip up here, you know, if I would, you know, join the union on something. I'm not sure what they're doing. And so for us, we have to connect teams. teachers who are in the classroom who've been oppressed by unions with decision makers. So that's a big part for us. You know, we're not really a policy organization.

We don't lobby. We don't write bills. But we do have this membership program. So a lot of our work has been just helping groups like the Commonwealth Foundation or the Empire Center for Public Policy. These are the two think tanks in New York and Pennsylvania, connecting them with teachers on the ground so that they can then take that teacher in to meet with a lawmaker. because I think it's important that lawmakers and people writing policy hear the stories firsthand, you know, of the people that the policy impacts.

You know, how often is it that someone makes a policy in a silo and they don't see the ripple effect? You know, when you give this power to a special interest like a government union, you're stripping away individual rights of public servants. That's something that we're very passionate about. What is one of the stories that has personally impacted you most, a story of a teacher? You know, there's a woman in Pennsylvania, actually, who her story is not shocking. I mean, I have stories of sexual assaults that have gone unchecked and, you know, horrific abuse. But there's a woman in Pennsylvania who she's an AP teacher. She's very passionate about the subject she teaches.

And actually, I got to know her really well at the beginning of the pandemic. and her union stepped in and told the school district, you know, the teachers were not allowed to talk to the students or they were not allowed to use a certain platform to teach the students from home or all these rules. And this teacher, you know, one day she was, you know, near tears and she just said, you know, my AP students have an exam. They have worked all year for this exam. You know, this is a big deal. And so she contacted the parents. I mean, this was a small class, this specific class. She contacted the parents and basically said, you know, can we arrange a time over, I think they maybe use like Google Hangouts for me to help these kids to keep learning.

So she went like above and beyond because she cared for these students. And so then, you know, week after week, and this was the beginning of the pandemic when we were all afraid. I mean, we all were, you know, not sure what was going to happen. But the union saw this as a land grab. They saw this as a chance for them to get more power or to enact, you know, more social. justice reforms or whatever it was they were trying to do. And this teacher, you know, through her network of a couple other Americans for Fair Treatment members, basically they just said, we're going offline. You know, we're going to do this with parental consent. Their principal's consented and they,

you know, kept teaching their students. And then everything went back online and they were able to, you know, use a new system to teach kids every day. But I was so moved by her, her loyalty, but also her allegiance to these kids, like, I mean, this dedication that these kids were not going to be left behind. And the fact that she worked so hard and such long hours, I mean, she was, you know, writing all kinds of special lesson plans in the evening and on the weekends. And I just, I kept thinking, you know, this is such a small, I mean, that's not a scandalous story that's going to make the cover of the Washington Post, you know, but that's the story, I believe, of thousands of teachers across the country. And, you know, unions saying, we are not going to go back into the classroom.

until we defund police or have a $15 minimum wage, or you fill in the blank with whatever social justice issue, they're depriving these teachers of their gift to teach. That to me is heartbreaking. And so that's, that woman has been kind of an inspiration for me on a regular basis. Yeah. Wow.

That's incredible. Like every, every now and then you hear the stories of teachers like that, and it really is so, so inspiring to see individuals that are just putting there. putting their students before everything else. So powerful. For those that want to get involved that, you know,

want to draw on the resources that Americans for Fair Treatment has to offer, how can they do that? Yeah, so we have a website. It's actually about to be redesigned, so stay tuned. But our URL is Americansforfertreatment.org. So you're always welcome to visit there. But the other thing is, you know, if someone's listening and they have a question or they have a concern, you can always email us.

Our email address is, info at a fft.org. We get all kinds of like really creative questions, really out there questions, and we have a, you know, staff that's kind of scattered about the East Coast and we have a staff around in Utah who, you know, we love interacting with people. And we actually get a lot of requests right now from parents who are kind of curious, how can I get involved and, you know, pushing back on union involvement in my school district. And so I just, I welcome if someone's listening and they're curious or they want to learn more, you know, check out our website or email us. We're happy to help with anything. Excellent. Elizabeth, thank you so much for joining us and thank you for the

work that you're doing. Thank you. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast. You can find the Daily Signal podcast on Google Play, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and IHeartRadio. Please be sure to leave us a review and a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Thanks again for for listening and we'll be back with you Monday. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. It is executive produced by Kate Trinko and Rachel Del Judas, sound design by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney, and John Pop. For more information, visitdailySignal.com.