The Daily Signal - How the War on History Is Rewriting America's Past

Episode Date: October 2, 2019

A generation ago, America’s Founding Fathers were venerated. Today, they’re more likely to be under attack from the media, teachers, and politicians. And it’s not just the Founders, but our founding documents, institutions, and other leaders from our past. Our colleague, Jarrett Stepman, has written about all this in a new book called “The War on History: The Conspiracy to Rewrite America's Past.” In today’s episode, Kate Trinko, our editor-in-chief, sits down with Jarrett to unpack what this effort is all about. We also cover these stories: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo rejects House efforts to get testimony from top State Department officials amid whistleblower feud U.S. manufacturing hits 10-year low amid trade war A sixth-grade student in Virginia recants her accusation against three boys The Daily Signal podcast is available on Ricochet, iTunes, Pippa, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, October 2nd. I'm Rachel Deltudis. And I'm Daniel Davis. A generation ago, Americans' founding fathers were venerated. Today, they're more likely to be under attack from the media, teachers, and politicians. And it's not just the founders, but are founding documents, institutions, and other leaders throughout our history. Our colleague at the Daily Signal, Jared Stettman, has written a new book about all of this called The War on History, the conspiracy to rewrite America's past. In today's episode, Kate, our editor-in-chief, sits down with Jared to unpack what this effort is all about. One more thing. If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to leave a review or a five-star rating on iTunes and encourage others to subscribe.

Now on to our top news. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo rejected a plan by three House committees to get testimony from five State Department officials. according to Bloomberg. Pompeo called those efforts from Congress an attempt to, quote, intimidate, bully and treat improperly his employees. This congressional attempt comes after reports emerged that Pompeo listened in on the president's July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, which has become the subject of scrutiny. Democrats allege that the president withheld military aid money from Ukraine in an attempt to get Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden. The president maintains that the call was completely above board, and Zelensky says he was never pressured.

Members of Congress are now trying to extract more context and information from administration officials. Tariffs are having an adverse impact on U.S. manufacturing, according to the Institute for Supply Management. In September, the U.S. manufacturing purchasing managers index reached a 10-year low. Exports took a dive as the U.S. continues its trade war with China. On Tuesday, the President blamed to the Federal Reserve for the manufacturing slump, saying the Fed had allowed the dollar to get too strong and had kept interest rates too high. Well, protests continued to escalate in Hong Kong Tuesday

as a policeman shot an 18-year-old man point-blank. Video and images of the shooting went viral on the internet, showing the policemen aim and shoot the teen in the chest. Police Commissioner Stephen Lowe defended the shooting as reasonable and lawful, given that the teen and other protesters were swarmed, police. The teen received quick medical attention and remained in critical condition. The protests in Hong Kong came amid China's National Day celebration, which marked 70 years of

communist rule in the mainland. President Xi Jinping hosted a massive military parade in Beijing, which included the unveiling of a nuclear missile capable of reaching the United States in 30 minutes. She said, quote, there is no force that can shake the foundation of this great nation and added, today a socialist China is standing in front of the world. Well, a sixth grade student at a Christian school in Virginia has admitted that she made up a claim that three boys pinned her down and cut off her dreadlocks. Amari Allen, a 12-year-old girl who is black and attends Emmanuel Christian School in Springfield, had said that three white sixth-grade boys attacked her on the school playground last week and called her names while cutting her dreadlocks.

Amari, whose account revealed extensive coverage on television and other media, told school officials Monday that she made up the story. Amari still holds that she has been bullied, her family said, but they are seeking counseling for her. Family lawyer Michael Daniels said, quote, Everybody is incredibly sorry that this all went down the way that it did. They're starting to look at a path forward, and that involves a lot of counseling and therapy and open discussion, end quote.

Up next, Kate sits down with Jared to discuss his book, The War on History. Tired of high taxes, fewer health care choices, and bigger government, become a part of the Heritage Foundation. We're fighting the rising tide of homegrown socialism while developing conservative solutions that make families more free and more prosperous. Find out more at heritage.org. Jared Sutman, my colleague here at The Daily Signal, is out with a new book. We're very excited. It's called The War on History, and you can buy it on Amazon or in your local bookshop maybe, but, you know, it's available all around.

And I'd encourage you to do so. If you're a regular Daily Signal reader, you've been reading Jared's excellent analysis of history for years. I know that I personally have learned a lot from him. And, of course, he's really gifted at pointing out what's great about America's history. And he's really great at pushing back at why the left is. wrong that everything is terrible and we are a nation of, you know, terrible people and all that fun stuff. But before I go any further, Jared, thanks for joining it. Oh, thank you very much, Kate. Okay. So let's talk about what's going on. We've seen a lot of fighting about history in recent years,

whether it's Christopher Columbus and if we should still have Columbus Day, it's whether our founders who had slaves were evil men all around. It's whether the U.S. was founded on good principles or was founded on inherently evil principles, at least in part. Why do you think we're fighting so much about history right now? I think this is, it's a large part, of course, about politics, which a lot of this directly connects to. It's not just about the details of history. I think a lot of this comes from, especially, I think, in the last part of President Barack Obama's term and some parts, early parts of President Donald Trump, I think you've seen kind of rise of, you know, what people call identity politics. And I think that has fueled.

a large part of what we see is this kind of attack on history and statues, that the statues represent for many the things they see as a problem with America, a problem with our history, they identify as one thing or another, and you see a lot of this ugliness where people who maybe are uncomfortable with history, or frankly, a lot of times don't know much about it, but have this idea that America is somehow bad and wrong. They see those symbols of something they need to destroy. So it becomes part of, I would say, this kind of power policy. of today. You know, instead of winning arguments and debates with people, we need to destroy them. And it's

hard to have a debate with the past. What do you do with it? You simply tear it down. And I think that's what a lot of these activists have been doing over the last few years. And I think that they have only escalated the targets of these attacks. You know, it started kind of small. And now it just, it spreads from everything. As, you know, you introduce this Christopher Columbus to founding fathers. I mean, we're talking across the board now. These things are up for discussion now and the way that they certainly weren't even 10 years ago. So you brought up the term power politics. What do you think the heart of these fights are?

What are the values that people are fighting about almost using history as a proxy? Yeah, and that's exactly it. History is a proxy and a cudgel. And I think that for many, especially on the hard left in America, I'm not just talking about generally liberals. I'm talking about the hard left, they really do see American principles and values is antithetical to their own views. And I think, I think especially with the rise of President Donald Trump, they saw it as an imperative for them, not just to win the arguments and debates with those who they disagree with, but to simply wipe them out and destroy it. I mean, this is the kind of the idea of the deplorables and stuff like that. Well, a lot of people in our history have been turned into the deplorables.

And this is what they see is what's wrong with America now is based on. what it was before. And of course, they want to fundamentally transform the United States. For many of them, they are often radicals and socialists. And they see a lot of the ideas at the heart of America, not just these individuals on these statues, but these real ideas, the Constitution, Declaration, they see these things as impediments to what they really want to accomplish in this country. And I think they see American culture as also an impediment. And so that's why they've turned and tried to turn Americans against these things. Or if they can't make them forget, then they will simply go out and destroy. Yeah, and it's funny how fast it seems to be

happening. I mean, Jared, you and I both grew up in California in the Bay Area near San Francisco, and I went to public school in the beginning years of elementary school, and I remember learning about the pilgrims, and it was great, and I just cannot imagine in today's world that California public school students are still being taught that. I would imagine it's a lot more fraud. I mean, we still had the recycling talks. But yeah, this issue just seems to move faster and faster. And of course, in California recently in San Francisco, there was the huge fight over the mural of George Washington.

And at San Francisco High School, which I believe the latest is they're going to cover it, but not destroy it, but that might kind of be the same. But you talked about how that was actually done. That painting was done by a liberal. Or maybe liberal is in the right word. But someone on the left who did not think highly of Washington. and I'm wondering, does that suggest to you that we're reaching perhaps a new fever pitch on the war in history? Like even acknowledging Washington's flaws doesn't make it enough to, like we still have to destroy Washington?

Absolutely. I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, the original portrait that you're referring to was it was done by a man who I think many would have defined as maybe even a communist. I mean, his own time was done in the 1930s. He was supposed to have a kind of what he would think of as a nuanced portrayal, depicted slavery, depicted slavery, depicted. I think one part there's a dead Native American there. But the patrol isn't like glowingly positive, which you kind of see George Washington, kind of the marble man of the American Revolution. But that wasn't enough. I mean, that was seen as still, you know, people were offended by this. And this, even the idea that you would depict George Washington alongside slavery,

they wanted to just destroy, just wipe it out, just completely cover it up because we can't even see these things or talk about. They simply just have to be disappeared. And we just have to disappear any reference now to George Washington. And I do think that represents a next step. I mean, we can't even be thoughtful about these issues. We can't even judge them based on the merits of the things. It's just the idea that, well, there's this thing that makes me uncomfortable.

I disagree with. Get rid of it. Let's just turn it to something that I like. And I think that that creates kind of a fanciful notion of what we should be. And I think, you know, these debates of our history and certainly people like George Washington have founders, I think they're very fair to have. I mean, you know, obviously history isn't just rainbows and sunshine. I think we should be more, you know, if only.

If only, but, I mean, that isn't. I think to me, of course, as a conservative, I see, you know, history is, you know, long string of a lot of ugliness. The great things that have come from it, I think are things that should be celebrated, which is kind of the points I make in my book, for a lot of these people, they don't see that way. They want some kind of utopian future in which, you know, there's no more wars, there's no more sadness, there's no more racism, there's no more oppression. And they think the only way you can do that. that is to cover up all the old sins of the past and then just rebuild this this brave new future

without any reference to where we came from and how we got there. And frankly, I don't think it accomplishes their ultimate ends. And I think it makes us a less thoughtful society in some ways a much less tolerant society, incredibly. Right. And of course, if you know your history at all, you know that utopias do not have the greatest track record. But, all right, let's turn to the actual historical facts here. One of the things that I really enjoyed about your book was your chapter on the founding, and it's so easy in today's environment to forget all that went right during the founding and how extraordinary it really was, that they had these ideas and these beliefs that were,

you know, I mean, they were men of huge intellect. But before I stammer any further, I'm going to turn over to you. So why was the founding actually great? I mean, the founding represented a, I mean, when you look back at the revolution, in history, there are scant few successes. I mean, really, most turn into violence. Of course, most Americans people cross the globe know about the French Revolution, which ended in, you know, certainly many what sounded like high-minded ideals and ended up with the guillotine and ended up with mass violence. And there was no liberty, there was no equality. There was just, you know,

misery. And the American founding ultimately was very different. I think it was a product of a lot of Americans who were susceptible to the ideas of the founding. I mean, there was many radical aspects of what the founders. I mean, the idea that all men are created equal, which is imbued in our Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson, based on, you know, God-given rights, things like this. I mean, societies hadn't been founded on these things. I mean, societies were often a product of force and fraud. I mean, how few civilizations have had the opportunity to write down a founding document. I mean, really, we were the first one. And the founder took that responsibility very seriously and created a founding document, the Constitution of

United States that survives with very few changes to this day. That's an incredible thing. And it provided for a country that at the time was, you know, at the time was 13 colonies, then states, a thin strip along the eastern seaboard of about 3 million people. Now we have a giant vast, you know, what Thomas Jefferson would call an Empire of Liberty that stretches across this continent where you have still under that same constitution, that same document that has created liberty and prosperity for untold generations and will for many more. That's an incredible accomplishment, especially considering that of all the civilizations in the world were kind of the youngest.

I mean, we've only been around for a short while. If somebody was around in 1600 and they suddenly found themselves today here today, I think the only civilization that would truly shock them would be the creation of the United States, seemingly out of nowhere, that suddenly arose to become a superpower in a country with vast liberty and prosperity. So Confederate statues have been probably, I'd say, the biggest flashpoint in recent years. Should they be taken down? Should we have plaques added to them? Should, well, I don't think they should, but sometimes it's just mob rule and they are taken down. You delve into the book a little bit of the history of these statues. So how did they come about,

why were they done so long in many cases after the Civil War? And what was the greater context that led to the creation of these statues? Yeah, I think with a lot of these statues, I mean, there's a lot of localism involved with this kind of stuff. And I think that's an unfortunate missing part of this debate. You know, a lot of statues, I mean, there were some statues that were created for sorted reasons. And a lot of others were there as simple tributes to those who had died. Some of them were actually symbols of unity where the nation came back together. I think there's actually, and I didn't mention this in my book, this happened recently,

there's a so-called Confederate statue that's actually near Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts, which is kind of a head scratcher. Like, why would they have a Confederate statue? And the truth was they put that there because there was a Southern who had moved up there, who had built a statue to the Union soldiers and the ending of slavery in this country and giving thanks. And so they said, hey, you know, this guy, we know he fought for the Confederacy, but he's a good guy. understands, you know, what happened. And there was like a moment of like forgiveness and saying,

well, he, you know, he's one of our American, you know, Americans now too. We're going to have a monument to the Confederates who fought against us, knowing that now again, we are all Americans, once again, slavery's been destroyed and we can go on in the future as countrymen. Wait, I was a little bit confused by that. Are you saying the guy who put up the original union statue was a former Confederate soldier? He was. Oh, that's fascinating. Yes. And so they've, they've actually taken the statue down, which I think is very sad because they call it a Confederate statue, but it wasn't there to celebrate the glory of the Confederacy or slavery, anything like this. It was simply put up to remark on, you know, a lot of Southerners who, after the war,

I mean, look, the country went on, and a lot of people had a change of heart. Many former Southerners said, hey, you know, we're happy that the union has come back together. You know, some of them admitted they fought for the wrong thing. And I think that was an important part of the healing process as this country had to go through. I mean, most civil wars don't end up with a rebuilding of the nation or anything like liberty. They usually entail years, decades, I mean, maybe violence forever between different groups. Our civil war ended, and there certainly was a lot of ugliness even after the war. But there is a kind of miracle that took place and that we actually had a country after this war that certainly caused more deaths than all of our other wars combined,

that were the issues were of the highest stakes. So, you know, there's a lot of complexity, especially when it comes to the creation of a lot of these Confederate statues. You know, some of the speeches that have taken place at the base, you know, there were some people who at some statute said racist things, others who did not, who said that they wanted to pay tribute to those who had died and to family members. I mean, sometimes we lose a little of that humanity. Now, we're, you know, over 150 years later. You know, we forget that, you know, if a school had, you know, a lot of young men who went off, most of them in their early teens, they go off to war and they never come back. You know, how does a community talk about that and memorialize that? These are brothers, these are husbands, you know, even if they fought for, in many

cases, a bad cause, how do you memorialize that? And the nation kind of came to this kind of agreement. You know, we're going to memorialize that we can say that the union was right and that slavery was an evil. And yet notice also that a lot of a sudden there are fellow Americans. And we should still be sad that you know so many Americans had to die to purge this evil of slavery so one of the charges alleged against these statues is that they were built around the same time as the rise of the kKK or you know it's increased prominence why was there such a delay between the civil war and when these statues started being erected well the first thing of course is after the war of the south was frankly so impoverished that it was impossible to build statues when they can hardly

feed people. And that's something that was certainly noted that immediately after the war, you know, there wasn't much building going on, period. A lot of these statues were built, especially at the 100-year anniversary. And actually, there were statues, union statues going up around the same time. In fact, funny enough, a lot of statues around the country look exactly the same, whether they're Union or Confederate, because they were making them out of the same factories. They were just like these kind of generic, you know, statues. So there were a lot of tributes, especially on the 100-year anniversary, which I think was very big. A lot of, look, a lot of Americans were trying to look back and say, hey, this is this horrible war that our grandfathers

and her grandmother's witness firsthand. People wanted to pay tribute to that. You know, how they did that was, I mean, incredibly varied across this country. I think we sometimes nationalize every issue. A lot of these statues had a lot of local significance to people in the community. Some of that is forgotten today. But a lot of these statues were created for, memorialization. Now, I'm not saying that every single statue had the purest of motives. I mean, period. I mean, there was a lot of racism in this country, certainly in the 1920s, certainly up into the 1950s, things like this. So, you know, certainly there was those sentiments existed, but the idea that all these statues were simply created as a part of white supremacy or the

Ku Klux plan, it's just, it's not accurate. It's not factual. And I think it really does a disservice to the actual and sometimes very complex history that is there. Yeah, and I think that's something that I really enjoyed about your book was that you do get into the complexities. And it's something that, you know, I personally struggle with what I think should be done with Confederate statues. But in all the reading, I've done, you know, obviously the Daily Signal has covered a lot of these controversies. And so I read up on these cases. And I don't remember ever reading a news report that got into whether the, you know, the original statue was commemorated with racist speeches or not. And to me, that's a huge signifier.

I mean, it's always just so broad. It's like either tear them all down or there's no, anyway, there's no nuance, but that's a common complaint for us. It really is. And it's upsetting. And I talk about certain figures, you know, I wrote about Robert Lee. Obviously, he's been a major figure in this. And I talk about, you know, look, Robert Lee made the wrong decision to go to war.

I think, you know, it's okay for Americans. And, you know, maybe even a lot of sometimes to say, hey, he made the wrong decision to go fight for the Confederacy. And yet a lot of his statements that he made about, you know, teaching your children to be Americans once again after the war were very important to this being a united country once again. I mean, not all of his legacy is perfect or great, but that part of it is. And that's something that we should celebrate. And a lot of Americans across the board, many who hated slavery in the Confederacy came to recognize that. So again, these are nuances that are often lost in modern debates over these statues and these figures who now just simply are

they're throw into the modern political debate without any nuance. So in another chapter of your book, you discuss how Teddy Roosevelt is great. That is not a commonly held opinion among conservatives. So tell me what you like about them. Yeah, I defend Theodore Roosevelt very specifically in this book. And I very intentionally chose figures who were not just simply conservative or liberal figures, but ones who contributed something very specific, I think, to this country. And Roosevelt, to me, and he is coming under attack, especially the Natural History Museum in New York, wants to take down a statue.

They say it looks imperialist, things like this. And, you know, Theater Roosevelt, he is a large-in-a-life kind of individual. I think a lot of Americans, whether they be conserved or liberals, both have kind of grabbed hold of him for their causes. I mean, I think it serves like, you know, kind of the martial aspects of Theodore Roosevelt, progressives like the fact that he seemed to like some, you know, bigger government programs. he was kind of an economic nationalist or things like this. So to me, that was not what ultimately Theater Roosevelt contributed to American civilization. To me, it was his Americanism, his grappling with the very serious issue at the time, which was high levels of immigration, which were very common in the late 19th century, and how is America going to deal with that? And I think Theodore Roosevelt's

his speeches and his discussions over bringing in new immigrants is incredibly important because he is a chief proponent of what I would call patriotic assimilation. I mean, he absolutely believed that, you know, how do we deal with immigration? We need to make sure that those who come here are, you know, wave the American flag, will be welcome just like thus. And he wrote speeches, both rebuking those who didn't want that, who essentially, even in his own day, wanted some kind of form of, I guess you could say multiculturalism, and also the nativists. I mean, he said, you know, if a man comes here or a woman comes here or anybody comes here, and they want to be. Americans, they adapt to our ways. It doesn't matter where you come from, you're an American,

period. And I think his statements about that and why that's so important, how to deal with these issues are so important, especially in the modern context. I mean, our fights over immigration are so ferocious. And a lot of this gets lost. How do you build a unified country when you have people who come from all over the world to that country from many different backgrounds? Roosevelt came from a time where the nation's elite tried to direct new newcomers to American ideas, to our history, to the founding. And Theodore Roosevelt was very much a part of that. And to me, as a conservative, yes, I don't agree with all of his economic policies. I think sometimes he looked over federalism is an important issue.

But on that issue, he was very much right. And he had a lot to teach Americans in the 21st century. And I think he's certainly somebody that shouldn't simply be a, race from history or disappeared because, you know, we don't agree with everything he said or whatever. He has a lot to teach us. And I think that's an important part of his legacy, certainly a one that very much influences us today. Right. All right. Maybe I'll have to slightly reconsider what I think of Roosevelt. And by the way, if any of you ever come to Washington, D.C., there is a lovely island in the Potomac named after him with a slightly bizarre monument in the

center, but it's a great place to walk around. I love that monument. I love it. I mean, it's It's just, it's speaking of a larger than life, Teddy Roosevelt. So we hear a lot from parents and grandparents. And, you know, as I mentioned earlier in the show, a lot of kids are not being taught history right now. How would you recommend, you know, again, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, whatever. How can you help your child if they're going to a public school or somewhere else where they're not learning about history? What would you say are the most important things to teach them about? Absolutely.

I mean, you could pick up my book. which hopefully, you know, debunk some of the attacks on our history that are coming from, I think, unfortunately, a lot of hard left historians. Of course, a lot of parents probably know about Howard Zinn, who was a far left, the communist essentially, who is, unfortunately, his books are used a lot in schools. And I do say for parents especially, you know, be very aware of the curriculum that young children are bringing home. I mean, in schools throughout this country, I think a lot of these battles are being fought there. And to a certain extent, you always need to put pressure on, you know, teachers and parents, and you be very aware, you know, what your, your

child is learning in school. Uh, you can also go and find resources, you know, teach kids, you know, on 4th July, you know, it's, it's great to have a barbecue and it's great to celebrate this country, but, you know, maybe say something and read the Declaration of Independence, you know, keep a kind of, I don't know, 4th July kind of Seder going where you read about this country's history and ask young people to, to think about and explain what, what that means to them. I think something that, you know, one of the reasons why I got pulled out of a public school at a young age, believe it or not, my, it was actually, I know the date. It's, it was June 6th, 1994. Wow. And it was the anniversary of D-Day. And my father asked me when, you know, I came back, you know, he came to pick me up.

He said, you know, what did you learn? And, you know, I said, oh, we learned about writing postcards and stuff. He said, well, anything else? Like, no. And my father actually went in and confronted the teacher about this. He says, you know, why isn't my son learned about D-Day? This is very important. You know, there were a lot of young people that aren't much older than these kids who died and, you know, fought for, you know, for liberty and, you know, freedom and things like this.

And the teacher just couldn't get this, you know. And, you know, eventually he did pull me out of school because they weren't teaching these values and put me in a private school. I understand that's often a very hard thing for parents, which is, you know, why I believe very strongly in the issue of school choice, which is a necessary element in a lot of these cases where, look, if the local public school is not doing a good job and not providing an education, not teaching the civic values that are essential to having a republic, you know, pull them out of school, send them a place that will teach that homeschool your kids. There's a lot of curriculum out there. There's a lot of primary sources to teach kids about civics and about what this country is all about. And I think that's on Americans because, I mean, that's vital. I mean, we live in a republic. We're expected, you know, we the people are expected to create our own laws.

We're expected to be in some ways, you know, more understanding of what how politics works, how civics works, how our history is, than other people live under tyrannical governments. So that is essential to our well-being and our future. And sometimes, you know, this takes, you know, fighting in a local school board. Sometimes it takes pulling your kid out of school. And sometimes it just takes, you know, sitting down with your children and using, you know, some primary resources, using some books and saying, well, let me teach you about the founders. This is what they stood for. This is why it matters to you.

And, you know, pass these things along to other people as well. And those things are essential and critical. I mean, that's where it brought us to this point. And I think that, you know, even in this time where there is, unfortunately, a lot of ignorance about history. I think that a lot of the polls are very bad. You know, this information is available. I mean, we live in, you know, the internet age, there's mass information. You know, there's Amazon.com.

I mean, you can buy books. I mean, this information exists out there. It's just a matter of using it and bringing it to the right people. And also, you know, fighting about a little bit. You know, people are saying that the founders are no good. The Constitution is rotten. You know, debate people and say, hey, I don't think that's right. You know, let me inform you about what the truth is.

And I think that is important that Americans, you know, have courage to stand up for what their country is and has symbolized. And that's an incredibly important thing, you know, land the free and home of the brave. Well, sounds like you have a great dad. So again, the book is called The War on History. It's brand new out this week. So please buy it. It's a great book. I really recommend it. And in addition to the book, if you are looking for resources, Jared does a terrific podcast with our other colleague, Fred Lucas, who is a white. House correspondent and also historian. And that podcast is called The Right Side of History.

And they get into a lot of these things. It's always a great listen. So, Jared, thank you for joining us. Oh, thank you very much. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to The Daily Signal podcast, brought to you from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or PIPA.

And please leave us a review or a rating on iTunes to give us any feedback. We'll see you again tomorrow. The Daily Signal podcast is executive produced by Kate Trinko and Daniel Davis. Sound design by Lauren Evans and Thalia Ramprasad. For more information, visitdailySignal.com.