The Daily Signal - INTERVIEW | Ben Carson and Armstrong Williams Address America's 'Crisis in Classroom'

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

There's a “crisis in the classroom,” and American children are paying the price, say Armstrong Williams, host of “The Armstrong Williams Show,” and Dr. Ben Carson, a renowned neurosurgeon and former secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development.   It's “very concerning in our society today, as you see the dumbing down of our people,” Carson says.  Carson and Williams are the authors of “Crisis in the Classroom: Crisis in Education,” and join “The Daily Signal Podcast” to offer solutions to America’s foundering education system. They had a third co-author, Benjamin Crump. Carson also addresses the role of the federal Department of Education and whether it should be eliminated.  Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Monday, December 5th. I'm Virginia Allen. Armstrong Williams and Dr. Ben Carson are the authors of the new book, Crisis in the Classroom, Crisis in Education. They're joining me on the show today to talk about what exactly that crisis is, to break it down and discuss some of the solutions for what we can do to actually address the problems within our education system. Stay tuned for our conversation after this. Virginia Allen here, I want to tell you all about one of my favorite podcasts. Heritage Explains is a weekly podcast that breaks down all the policy issues we hear about in the news at a 101 level. Host Michelle Cordero and Tim Desher mix in news clips and music to tell a story, but also bring in heritage experts to help break down complex issues. Heritage Explains offers quick 10 to 50 minute explainers that bring you up to speed in an entertaining way. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast. We even put the full episode on YouTube. America's education system is languishing. In October,

the National Assessment of Educational Progress, which is also called America's Report Card, revealed a catastrophic decline in math and reading scores in America just since 2019. And here with us to talk about the state of education across the nation and solutions to fix the problem is the host of the Armstrong Williams Show and entrepreneur Armstrong Williams and neurosurgeon and former secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Dr. Ben Carson. Thank you all so much for being here today. Pleasure. Well, Mr. Williams, I want to start with you and ask a little bit about these national test scores. It was really disturbing when we saw these numbers come out in mathematics, eighth grade students, their scores have dropped eight points from 2019 to

2022. In eighth grade, their proficiency in reading has declined about three points. What is going on here? Is COVID entirely to blame for these issues? Are there other factors affecting this dramatic decline in education? Well, I certainly, I don't think you can leave COVID out of the equation, But that's not all of it. So look, Florida had it right. Florida did not allow its students to social distance. It defied and challenged the White House when they claim that kids could learn virtually.

Many of these kids did not have internet. Many of them did have internet, and when there was an internet disconnect, the parents were not aware, and so the kids would miss class for that day. class for that day. Oftentimes, the teachers were not prepared. It was just disorganized. And kids were bored and isolated. And so obviously, we should not be surprised of the results, given the issues that we were having before COVID-19. And remember, COVID-19 also unearth

gave birth to Moms for Liberty. When they discovered what their kids were actually being talk, what was going on in the classroom. And listen, and we all know that the more the NEA, the more of these special interest groups grow in power, the more at the expense of dumb and down education and children becoming more and more illiterate. That's just the fact. The more of the power that these NAA, these lobbyists have is at the expense of these children. And one of the things that we often forget is that family is also a significant culprit. We don't like to talk about this. When you think about single motherhood and adolescent pregnancy rates,

especially in minority communities during the previous century, have produced generations of children without a second parent who were born into poverty and lack nutrition and actually adequate habitation. I mean, they are born burdened with figurative change. in the race of life. And politicians, what they often do so well is leave welfare undisturbed to attract the votes of their government dependence while welfare recipients lead politicians undisturbed to maintain a hike their unearned government benefits.

I mean, it is sort of a form of such a pathological domestic abuse in which the wife returns to abuse out of necessity. And so that's what they created here. And so this crisis has impacted families in ways just unimaginable. But these stories are real and riveting of the incumbent problem in urban cities across America and also all sectors of America. Because you ask yourself, how is it possible that a child can go through school for 12 years and be illiterate? And how can you know that they don't measure up with it?

with math and English, and how do you know they cannot write? It is such a devastating blow to the human spirit. And listening to these parents and hearing these kids, you can also see their dreams for a better future for the children. It's just doom. It's just doom. And you clearly see what they know that they were cheated. And this is actually they were cheated. And so what we, and it is such a harsh reality also that,

I think that this is probably one of the greatest robberies in the United States. And if it were a financial crime, any other crime for that matter, doesn't would be charged, prosecuted, and likely faced jail time. But that is not the case here when we feel like kids. And we must ask ourselves why. We must ask why this continues to be so acceptable when people are being robbed of an opportunity to make a good life, to have real self-worth, real self-esteem. We know that this education, this passport, keeps kids farther away from sexual trafficking,

from prostitution, from petty theft, from the prison system, being incarcerated, from homicide. We know exactly what happens when a kid is educated. It's not 100%, but it's 90%. I'll take that 90% any day. And are we also selfishly, I mean, absorbed by all. daily problems that we're complacent with the grand larceny of our children's future. And this is why Dr. Carson, Attorney Crump and I decided to come together because the children who attend these dilapidated schools are survivors of a corrupt system that, frankly,

really doesn't care about them. It really doesn't. And to say, and to politicians, there are nothing but votes. And for education administrators, you know where they are? expendables. So these communities are populated by guess what, the unschooled. Because why? Why? Because the educated leave, they move out of the city to enable their children to escape from the debilitated miseducation they experience, but more stay behind with need of hope and our ambition. That is why school choice, charter schools are so important. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I, I love the fact that yourself and Dr. Carson and Mr. Benjamin Crump, you all have so strategically looked at all of these issues within our education system.

And you have put together a book called Crisis in the Classroom, Crisis in Education, where you're tackling. These are the issues that we're seeing and you're bringing solutions forth. If you had to sort of diagnose, okay, this is the core. These are maybe, you know, the top few issues for the reasons why. why our kids are falling behind. What would it be? I mean, is it family?

Is it issues like critical race theory? What's at the core of the failure in our education system right now? First, we have to be conscious about bringing children into the world. What that responsibility is. It's not to get some check. It's not something to make you feel good. It is a huge responsibility. I think some people don't emphasize enough.

what it means to be a parent, and what it means to have children. You know, because the problem is many children die now before they have a chance to live. And to have children, you've got to teach them sacrifice, discipline, responsibility, but more importantly, you've got to teach them about morality, the moral compass, and to raise them.

Because if not, they will pray not only lose out in the classroom, but they will pray on other children, suck in many of them, to a life of crime and violence. We're plagued with crime and violence. Why? Because the children having children, we're beginning to see what these children have become. They don't have real self-esteem because they didn't not get the skills in the classroom.

Nobody cared about them. No one invested in them. So they have to find any means necessary to develop a living. Stealing, lying, cheating, whatever is necessary. Because no one ever really taught them right and wrong that there's a better way. And so much of this is reinforcing the media. and we make excuses for them, and no, none of us ever hold them accountable. I mean, minority communities encourage dangerous subcultures

that elevate violence and drugs that are often glorified and rap music. Young minority men are captured only to die of being in prison for sort of a hormonal race to self-destruction. And music should inspire us to sort of follow the better angels of our nature and not lure us into the depth of depravity unsuited for manhood. They don't even understand what it means to be manhood, a man. Why? Because their fathers are not in their household.

There are only so many things that a church and a mother can teach a man, a woman. Fathers are necessary. We don't emphasize what that means anymore. And now we redefine families, redefine what that means. Men defend their home in the community. They are role models. without them gangs and crime flourish. Young males plunged to violence, crime, and sexual promiscuity.

And so the secret of crime fighting is good fathers who insist on discipline and learning with no excuses. I know. I grew up in it. Let's not forget the collateral damage of the crime epidemic in the inner cities. Innocent kids murder while going to and from school. We see it are playing at the park of cities like Chicago. they're the rule, not the exception.

They're no longer the exception anymore. They are the rule. Criminals are remorseless and prey on the good and the bad without discrimination. And there is no lie at the end of the tunnel. Only fathers are necessary to help navigate this. Dr. Carson, I know that this issue is very, very personal to you, and you talk very openly about how education was so important in your household growing up. if you would just share a little bit about the role that education played for you as a young person

and the role that your own mom, the emphasis that your own mom put on learning and the importance of a strong education? Well, as a youngster, I was not particularly strong academically. I'm not putting it mildly. The other kids were always glad I was in the room because no one had to worry about getting the lowest mark on the test as long as I was there. But I just really didn't think that I was smart. So as a result of that, I really didn't pay close attention to what was going on. And then, interestingly, in the fifth grade, we had eye exams. I didn't know that anybody could see the board.

I got glasses, and all of a sudden, I could see the board. And I went from an F student to a D student. And I was so pleased. And the teacher was pleased, too, because she had low expectations for me. my mother was still horrified that I was getting these grades. And she worked as a domestic cleaning other people's houses, and she noticed that they did a lot of reading and didn't watch TV a lot. So she concluded that that had a lot to do with their success. She came home one day and imposed that on me and my brother, and we were not happy campers, believe me.

I mean, today's world, we were to call social services on her. But, you know, we had to read the books. And I didn't like it very much at first. But as I started reading about people of great accomplishment, great entrepreneurs and innovators and scientists, I started to understand that you don't just become one of those people. You have to work at it. And that the person who has the most to do with what happens to you is you.

and all of a sudden I became a bookworm. I was reading everything I could get my hands on. In the space of a year and a half, I went from the bottom of the class to the top of the class. Everybody was just amazed at this transformation that had occurred in me. But I was just thirsting for knowledge at that point. And it completely changed the trajectory of my life. And, you know, allowed me to come from very humble circumstances to

become a brain surgeon. Yeah. Wow. It had to do with education and recognizing the importance of it. And one of the reasons that we wanted to write this book is to help people to realize that our educational system is an incredibly important part of success in our society. It doesn't matter where you came from. If you get a good education, you write your own ticket. It doesn't matter if you come.

from a liberal family or a conservative family or black family or white family or yellow family, it doesn't matter. You go ahead and, you know, you program that computer of yours, which is your brain. And like a regular computer, you get out of it what you put into it. It's a program, but if you wanted to do things, if you don't do that, you kind of like, what's going on. And, you know, it was so important that John Adams, our second president, said that our system is based upon an educated and informed populace. If you don't have that, you have people who are very easy to manipulate.

And it's very concerning in our society today as you see the dumbing down of our people. You know, all you do is go back and look at, you know, a middle school exit. the exam from the early 1900s or from the 1800s and see what kids were expected to know compared to today. And, you know, spending so much time on gender, classifications and things like that, as opposed to the basics of what you need to know so that you can read an application and fill it out appropriately so that you can read instructions and follow them so that you can. and accomplish a lot of the tasks that are needed for basic employment.

And we have a lot of kids graduating who don't have those skills, and what are they left with? Unfortunately, frequently a life of crime and debauchery. And that's our fault. As a society, we need to recognize this, and we need to take the steps to do something about it. Now, one of the things, of course, is giving people choice. and education, but not everybody can take advantage of that. And we still have a lot of people

in public education. So we need to rectify what is going on in our public educational arenas. Yeah. Dr. Carson, when it comes to things like the teaching of critical race theory in the classroom or gender identity, how does that have an impact on students in the classroom, both on their educational abilities and on overall just unity in the classroom. Well, it's very distracting. I have a friend, his eight-year-old granddaughter, came home crying one day. And she said, Grandpa, am I evil because I'm white? Now, we're hearing that from.

Where's getting those kind of ideals? And, of course, you have a lot of the black kids or minorities feeling all of a sudden that this society is stacked against them, that it's impossible for them to excel to the degree that they should because society is stacked against them. You know, if you think you're a victim, you are a victim. There's no question about that.

And, you know, my mother, if anybody was a victim, it was her, but she refused to be a victim. She came from a huge rural family in Tennessee, shuffle from home to home, was able to get less than a third grade education, got married at age 13, years later found out that her husband was a bigamist. I mean, if anybody was a victim, it was her. She refused to be a victim.

She refused to let us be a victim. She was always saying, you can think your way out of this and depend on yourself and depend on God. And if we ever made an excuse out of her mom, the next thing was a poem called Yourself to Blame. And the question, do you have a brain? And if you do, the answer was yes, then it doesn't matter where John or Susan Ameri or Steve did or said, you could think your way out of it. Yeah. Mr. Williams, I want to pull you back into this conversation. I was interested.

The Washington Post, they recently published an op-ed that was discussing the frustration that some teachers have with things like standard-based grading. So these are policies that tell teachers, you know, they can't give a kid a grade lower than a few. or that, you know, there is no deadline for when homework can be turned in. What is the effect of policies like that on students, especially minority students? You know, the unfortunate thing about those policies is that, first off, it creates a challenge with your own peers. Because, you know, kids are the cruelest of all. and kids gossip and they tease. So kids are very aware

when their colleagues in the classroom are not studying and they don't earn a grade. So they have to deal with that stigma. But the true test of that stigma really doesn't happen while they're in school. It's what happens after they graduate. And they must apply for jobs and they cannot read.

They cannot write. They cannot do basic arithmetic. You passed them along for this false up esteem and this false self-worth. It's like giving a good. kid a prize, even though certain kids who scored between 9 and 100 earn the prize, you're going to still get the same prize as some kid that scored between 30 and 50. The impact that it has long term is where the devastation happens. Sometimes it leads these kids to suicide,

it leads to depression, it leads to the lack of self-worth. And for me, I don't even understand how you can give something to anyone that has not been earned. I mean, what that does, does, and consciously you understand that you need not earn it. It eats at you. It's no different that you're being in the classroom. And you know, you cheated your way through that classroom. You know, there's something inside you that knows that you did not earn that. And it's one thing for teach a kid to do that to themselves, but for a system to allow that to happen, it's just very crippling. Dr. Carson, I don't know if you're still with us and able to hear, but I would love to ask you a little bit about the faith component that you write about in the book and the role of religion

and the role of faith that plays within the education system. Of course, this used to be a really core tenant within America's education system in the early days of our nation. How does the conversation of faith play a role in our discussion of education today? Well, I hope you can hear me. I'm in rural Georgia, and it's not good communication. I'm But the fact of the matter is in early America, our schools all posted the Ten Commandments. And in 1963, we said, no, you can't do that anymore. What exactly is wrong with thou should not kill, thou should not steal, thou should not commit adultery, thou should not bear false witness, thou should not envy,

you should honor your parents. You know, these are general principles of Judeo-Christian societies. and as we push those out, they have to be replaced with something else. And not teaching our children morals and values is having a very deleterious effect. They don't respect other people. Instead of love your neighbor, it's cancel your neighbor if they don't agree with them. You know, these are things that will obviously sow seeds of division within our society. And I think that has a lot to do with some of the violence that we see.

and some of the things of that nature. It's not the guns, it's not the knives. It's the mindset of people that we need to be worried about. And there are countries that have more guns per capita than we do, like Switzerland, they have almost no problems of this nature, because they're not sowing those kinds of seeds. So we need to be concerned about what we are teaching our children in terms of their relationships with their fellow human beings.

And that's where faith and religion come in. Mr. Williams, looking at all of the problems that we have talked about and addressed, it's easy to get a little bit discouraged about our education system. But what are the solutions? What can parents do? What can we do as citizens? What can teachers who are listening do to raise the bar and actually be serving our kids well and raising those education standards?

Well, you know, the media, which I'm certainly part of, frequently has the problems spoon fed to them too, but regularly fails to report on them seemingly for political or other business-related reasons. You know, when you look at Project Baltimore in the Baltimore City Schools and that internal literacy testing, in which the Baltimore school system found that 77% of high school students read at only an elementary school level. And even worse, the returner reports were not publicized by the school. Instead, they were only uncovered when a distraught teacher, teacher, leaked these reports to Project Baltimore. They just couldn't take it anymore. They just could not take the destruction and being part of a system. She just could not sleep and so she risked it all.

And you would have thought that would have been the headline. But it wasn't. Because you know what? The mainstream media are aware. But to protect their own special interest groups, they do it often at the expense of the children. And so the sadness is that, and then parents play a role. I mean, parents understand that their kids are being exploited. They know that kids are not educated.

One of the things that happen in our household, not only did our parents retus, But we had to read to our parents. Why? Because they could measure our learning capacity. They could measure the progress that we were making. And we had to go to the library. We had to read. Television was earned, not something that was expected. And so the future is what each of us individually makes it.

But what does it cost us as a side if we do nothing to help motivate people to rise to their full potential? Because as Dr. Carson says so often, and every child is born with freedom in this country. But are they truly free at their born in environments that rob them of freedom before they have a chance to know what it is? I do think so, which is why, particularly in the inner cities across America, we most hold these political leaders accountable

and look internally at the culture changes, the community needs to make in order to prosper. But the need has wider application. All Americans, just like Dr. Carson and Ben Crump and myself, coming together. We have to come together to make everyone succeed in their ambition because a rising tide lifts all boats. And politics is not about winning or losing. It is about making everyone a winner and giving everyone a helping hand when it necessitates by the vicissitudes of life. That's what is about because in the end, it seems that those who purport to unify us are

divided us. And minority communities can be made safer. minority people can thrive if they are unafraid to speak up about the conditions of their communities and if they are given the facts and the opportunities to think of creative solutions, address problems that they directly cause their suffering, and hold those accountable who put them down. They've got to have that kind of freedom. They cannot feel they're intimidated. They're betraying some kind of oath when it's at the destruction of not only their kids, but their parenting and the success of their kids that someday will take care of them as Dr. Carson-Dabler. And I did with my mother.

This stuff has long-term consequences if we don't do something about it. Yeah. Thank you for that call to action, Mr. Williams. Dr. Carson, before I let you all go, I would be curious to ask, there are some Americans, particularly on the political right, who advocate for and end to the Department of Education. Having worked as the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, what do you think should the Department of Education be dismantled?

Well, you know, it's pretty hard to get rid of something. that's been established for a long time. Maybe it wasn't necessary in the beginning, but it's here now. So rather than getting rid of it, I would say let's use it in a positive way. Let's, you know, understand the value of education for all of our citizens. And let's try to make it equitable and available to everybody. And, you know, the Department of Education is not only about elementary school and high school. It's also about universities. And the Department of Education could actually be effective in terms of grant money to sort of remove a lot of the bias that's going on in our university campuses. You know, they, it's supposed to be a place where people

have discussions where they learn about all kinds of different philosophies instead of a monolithic indoctrination school. And the Department of Education could play a very significant role in helping that to occur. Gentlemen, thank you both for your time today. The book is Crisis in the Classroom, Crisis in Education. It's out now and available. We'll put the link in the show notes for anyone who would like to order it. But we so appreciate both of your time today.

Oh, we appreciate the opportunity to talk about this important work. And more importantly, to talk about how we all come together to give these kids who are coming a chance to not to fail and have a real quality education so they can become a Ben Carson or Bing Crump or whomever else as long as they determine that and then instead of somebody else determining it for them because of the lack of an education. Absolutely. Mr. Williams, Dr. Carson, thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Again, if you are interested in learning more about this crisis in the classroom and you'd like to get a copy of the book, Crisis in the Classroom, Crisis in the Classroom, Crisis and Education by Armstrong Williams and Dr. Ben Carson. The book is out now and available for purchase. We'll be sure to put that link in the show notes. But thank you all so much for joining us today. That's going to be it for today's episode.

If you have not had a chance before, make sure to take just a moment to leave us your feedback by leaving a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you like to listen. We love hearing your feedback. Again, thanks for joining us today. Have a great week. right back here with you at 5 p.m. for our top news edition.

The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. Executive producers are Rob Blewey and Kate Trinko. Producers are Virginia Allen, Samantha Acheris, and Jillian Richards. Sound design by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney, and John Pop. To learn more, please visitdailySignal.com.