The Daily Signal - INTERVIEW | Border Experts Tom Homan and Mark Morgan Explain How Cartels Exploit Biden’s Policies to Their Advantage

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

No migrant crosses America’s border from Mexico illegally without the cartel’s consent, according to Tom Homan, the former acting director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.  When migrants don’t have the money to pay what the cartels demand, they fall prey to trafficking.   Homan and Mark Morgan, former acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, join the show from the Conservative Political Action Conference to explain how the Mexican cartels are using Biden administration policies to their advantage. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The reason there's so much violence in Mexico right now is because the cartels are making so much money. They're fighting each other over the patrol of plazas. They're areas. So that's why you see so much violence in Mexico. This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, March 8th. I'm John Pop. And that was Tom Homan, the former acting director of U.S. immigration and customs enforcement. Homan says the cartels are no longer staying in Mexico.

They are smuggling drugs into America and staying in the country, actively working to take control of the drug networks within the United States. According to Homan, President Biden's policies have created a huge money-making opportunity for the cartels. Virginia Allen sits down with Homan at the conservative political action conference to discuss how the cartels operate and continue to take advantage of America's open border. And then stick around after Virginia's conversation with Tom Homan to hear what former acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection Mark Morgan has to say about Biden's new asylum policy. Stay tuned for those conversations right after this. For over 35 years, the Heritage Foundation Job Bank has been helping conservatives at all

professional levels find employment in key positions in Washington, D.C., and across the country. We can help you connect with positions in the administration, on Capitol Hill, in public policy organizations, and in the private sector. To learn more about the Heritage Foundation job bank, go to heritage.org slash job dash bank. It's my honor today to be joined by Tom Holman, the former acting director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and a visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Mr. Holman, thank you so much for your time today. Hey, thanks for having me.

So we are five months into fiscal 2023. Already there have been over one million encounters at our southern border. That's an all-time record high. Many Republicans campaigned on the need to secure the border. You pointed out this fact in a recent piece that you co-authored for the Hill with former acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection Mark Morgan. And I want to read a piece of what you wrote. You said, if securing the border is the football, the GOP is Lucy.

During campaign season, it's all about securing the border. No questions asked. Once safely elected, however, some members focus, changes to comprehensive immigration reform or backroom deals that hold border security hostage to mass amnesty

and GOP leadership indulges them. So, Mr. Holman, what's going on here? Where are you seeing Republicans come up short on the promises that they made to secure the border? Well, look, you know, during the midterms, you know, what I said, you know, they all go down to the border

they do the dog and pony shows and say how terrible the border is. I need to impeach majorcas to take all this action. Then they get back to D.C. do nothing. Not everybody, but some. So, like, for instance, Chip Roy, the Congressman of Texas, has your great bill pending right now, HR 29. HR 29 would do a lot to secure the border

because a lot of the Trump policies within the legislation. Guys like Mark Morgan who had decades, me have decades of experience, people with decades of experience support this bill because we know it's going to work. but you got some people like you know Tony Gonzalez

who's a Republican down in San Antonio who chooses not to support the bill because he says it's too aggressive it's too tough it never passed the Senate

he says it's un-American don't allow people to claim asylum which is a total lie I mean it does people can still claim asylum but Roy's bill basically says

what the law says if you're into the country you become a riving alien which means you are to be detained, depending in your court hearing. So there's nothing anti-American about it. That's what the law says that secures his country. But

when I'm talking to Tony Gonzalez is like, look, understand, I agree, his bill will not pass the Senate, but it's a tough bill, an aggressive bill, so let's work on it, let's negotiate that bill to a better place. We got to start with an aggressive bill. We can't start with a non-aggressive bill because by time you

negotiate, we get nothing. But people like Tony Gonzalez would rather work with Senator Corny, Texas, the senator who actually signed the omnibus bill that gave the board patrol zero money. Texas senator, Texas is getting overrun, right? And what did Cornyn do? He turned his back on the board of patrol by signing the Amnibus bill. So I'd rather have Tony work with somebody like Chip Ryan, a really aggressive plan,

than work with somebody who's already shown he don't really support the board of the show. So the Republicans get taught a tough game. A lot of them are tough, whereas a few of them need to be brought back to the table. and the voters are going to home responsible. So the Democrats in mind open borders, just about all of them. But there are some Republicans who are pushing back on a strong bill and we can't allow it. I want to talk in just a little bit here about solutions and a little bit more in depth about how we actually fix this problem. But first I want to talk a little bit about some of what you saw in your time, working for ICE,

what you've seen in your experience working at the border, and specifically as it relates to cartels. because we hear a lot about the influence of the cartels. When we talk about the drugs, cartels are bringing over the border, their influence at the border. What are we really talking about when we say cartels? How big are these groups and how elaborate is their operation? Explain that, if you would.

Well, the criminal cartels in Mexico, they're always known as drug cartels, right? They smuggle drugs into the country. As a matter of fact, these cartels are now in 48 countries, So they spread worldwide. They used to be in a dope business, right, in narcotics business. But they've seen there's so much money in alien smuggling and human trafficking that they're playing all the games now. So they're making record amounts of money.

And drug smuggling, human trafficking, alien smuggling, they're making more money they ever have. So any alien smuggling organization, you cannot move illegal aliens across the river into the United States illegally without paying the criminal cartels. They control the southern border. So you've got to pay out the cartels, and they'll decide where they're going to push the groups through.

Now, there's such a huge crisis on the border. Up to 70% of agents have been pulled off the line. So the criminal cartels know that. So they'll send a big group of 200 family units to an area, knowing that whatever little vorbitral agents are left on patrol, they'll seize that moment to deal with that humanitarian crisis, which creates gaps. That's when they moved to fentanyl.

That's when they moved the gang members. That's when they'll move people that don't want to get called. And you've got to ask yourself, the $1.2 million, who are they? To 1.2 million gotaways. Why didn't they take advantage of the free system, the free airplane rights to the city of their choice, work authorization? Why did they not turn themselves in and pay less money to do that, but they paid more money to get away? So the criminal cartels, they're powerful. The criminal cartels are now operating in every major city in this country.

Their product, fentanyl, methamphetamine, are in every single. city of this country, every county of this country, they're here by the thousands. People need to understand that. They talk about cartels. They're other Mexico. They're Central America. They're South America. No. Cartels, thousands of them are currently in the United States distributing their product. They already produced the product and smuggling in. Now they're saying, well, let's take control of the drug networks within the United States. We'll take that over too, and they are.

The reason there's so much violence in Mexico right now is because the cartels are making so much money. They're fighting each other over the controlled plazas. They're areas. That's why you see so much finance in Mexico. Record amounts of money being made. They're willing to kill each other to get. So I want to pose a couple hypotheticals to you. Let's say I'm a mom from Honduras.

I want to come to America. I have two little kids with me. But I think, you know, I don't want to work with the cartels. I know they're bad people. So I'm going to travel to the border just myself. What's likely going to happen to me? They've been not going to cross the border about the cartels. They've got to pay the fee.

pay the fee they're in trouble and what if I can't afford to pay the fee then you become a victim of trafficking they'll get you across the board first they'll find out who your family is what family you have family relatives got left in your country and they'll cross you the border now you owe them a certain amount of money they'll put you in a forced labor if you're young lady they'll force you in the prostitution that's what trafficking is so they'll get you in then you'll be holding to them you owe them a lot of money and there's a hell a lot more money if they would have just paid cash so they're going they're going to have you as you as you They'll put you in forced labor, they put you in prostitution,

but they're going to own you. And if you don't abide by it, if you don't do what they tell you to do, they'll kill your family. They'll tell you they'll kill your family. So as far as back in the old days, where someone who just cross the border legally without approval and acceptance of the cartels,

those days are over. Wow. I mean, it's just waiting to recognize that this is happening. Would you say this is happening every day at our southern border? I mean, how quickly? There are women being raped. every day by the criminal cartels. Wow.

I've talked to young girls as the youngest 10 that were raped multiple times. Wow. A lot of these young girls come across the border with a morning after pill that their family buys them because they know they're going to be raped. Some young ladies being raped as you and I were talking. It happens all the time. Someone's going to die on the border today. It's either going to be someone drowning in the river or it's going to get lost in the desert

and they're going to die. Look, there's been over 1,700 migrant deaths on U.S. soil since Joe Biden. became present, which is a record by far. 106,000 people who died of drug overdoses, most of those fentanyl that comes across an open border. DEA says 95% in the fentanyl is coming across the southwest border. I don't

find that coincidence in a year you have record, historic illegal immigration that's taken 70% of agents off the line that a record amount of drugs against you because we're not there to seize it and arrest it. So this administration, I go around the country saying a while the time, I don't care what your

opinion is on illegal migration. understand this. When you cause a crisis this big that overwhelms the Border Patrol, that's when the drugs sweep in, that's when the criminal sweep in, that's when no inspector terrorists can, look, they've arrested 57. I'm going to say it again, they've arrested 57 people of terrorist washlists trying to stink in the country. How many of the 1.2 million? How many 1.2 million are no inspector terrorist? And all of those agents that have been taken off the line, they're pulled off the line to sit at deaths and process asylum cases, correct?

Yes. Well, they're changing diapers, making baby formula, making hospital runs. They're not performing the national security duty. Okay. There is a common argument that we hear from those on the political left that we need immigration reforms to make it easier to come to America and to claim asylum so that migrants are not dependent on the cartels and it's safer for them to come to America. What's your response to that argument? There's a right way and long way come to this country. I can't blame anybody that wants to be a part of the greatest nation on earth. But they can't start that out by committing a crime against this country. And to the countries illegally, what this administration is doing, they decide that they won't create a more humanitarian system. Let me tell you that it's not humane.

They got more Americans that died since they've been in president. That's a record. Like I said, migrant, record deaths of migrants. There's nothing humane about this. Women being raped, children drowning in the river. They created this administration created this parole policy, which is illegal. I'm not a lawyer, but I can read. I've done this for 35 years.

They will lose this in court, 20 states have sued, and this pro-police are going to get thrown out of court. I wish this administration would stop talking around the circle, stop playing a shell game, and just secure the border. We've already shown we can do it. All the thing I do is dust off the Trump Docton, what we did, and they can secure the border in 30 days. Is it really as simple as that?

Yes. Reinstate the Remain the Mexican program, what's a game changer. As a matter of fact, the commissioner of CBP had a lot to do with that. Yeah, Mark Morgan. Yeah, Mark Morgan, who's staying over there, a good friend of mine. The Remain in Mexico is a game changer. The third safe country agreements are game changer.

They really put the things back in? They can secure the board in 30 days. And I tell you what, when President Trump comes back, that's exactly what we're going to do. Because he comes back, I come back. We're going to fix it. Tom Homan, thank you for your time today. We truly appreciate it. You got it.

And here's Virginia's conversation from CPAC with Mark Morgan. We are joined by former acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Mark Morgan, who's also a visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Mr. Morgan, thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you, Virginia. Thanks for having me. We just finished talking with Tom Homan about the role, specifically that the cartels really play at the border and their influence. Now, President Joe Biden has announced some plans to try and address issues at the southern border. He announced a new asylum plan recently that he says it's going to lessen the numbers coming to the border. It's going to have individuals have to claim asylum either in a third party country that they

pass through or use an app to apply for asylum. Can you explain what exactly Biden is proposing here? And if this plan is put in place, will it be successful at addressing the crisis at our border? Let me answer the last first. No, it's not going to be successful because it's what I refer to as a shell game. It's a head fake. And what's ironic is you have those on the left and open border advocates that are demonized in it, and you have someone on the right applauding it.

They're both wrong. Here's why. What this so-called new plan does is it just simply makes a deal with the entire world that says, if you refrain from illegally in between the ports of entry and filing what we know to be false and fraudulent asylum claims, we're going to make a deal with you. Get on the CBP One app, make an appointment come to our lawful point of entry, while we will continue to look the other way, as you continue to file knowingly and intently false and fraudulent claims, we're going to process and release in the United States. Nothing changes. This plan does nothing to deter those coming to our border and either illegally or filing false claims.

It does nothing to apply consequence to anybody that violates the law, and it does nothing to put integrity back in the system by reducing fraudulent and fake claims from being made. And so all it does is literally shifts the board to some degree from in between the ports of entry to the ports of entry, but the crisis is still there. So you think the numbers wouldn't change at all? No. In fact, that's a good question, Virginia. What we're trying to get inherited just did a good job. They just created a chart that really shows what I illustrate. In the last 24 months, migrants coming to the ports of entry, filed again what we know to be overwhelmingly false claims, has increased 212 percent to the highest it's ever been on record. They went from 2000, and when Joe Biden took over in 2021, it went from about 24,000 a month at our ports of entry to now it's 75,000 per month in growing.

That's what I mean. They simply shifted it from in between the ports of entry to the ports of entry. Okay. Now, Democrats have come out, many saying that they are not in favor of Biden's proposed plan because they say it's essentially similar or almost the same to what former President Donald Trump did. what's your response to that? It's not. So the CBP 1 app, so it's very important in this 153 page asylum rule,

really all you need to do is read the first paragraph. And in the first paragraph, there's a very key word, or, because it says you must avail yourself of relief from the first country you transit through that can give you that relief, or avail yourself of a safe and legal pathway. Well, guess what the legal pathway is now? The CBP1 app, which I just explained,

does nothing to curtail fraudulent claims. So they could transit through 100, say, third countries and not seek relief. As long as when they get to Mexico, they get online and apply for the app and go through a port of entry and still claim a fraudulent asylum claim. And then the release in the United States never be heard from again. And also what the rule does, the exceptions actually take over the rule, because if a migrant, they could transit through 100 safe third countries, not get relief, come to Mexico and then come to the border or without an appointment, without using CBP, one app,

and they said, well, I didn't have access to their internet. No problem, come on in. So it's a shell game. It's all smoke and mirrors. And so the left should be an uproar about it, and the right should be as well. Okay. So when we think about solutions,

Tom Homan, who we just spoke to, he said, you know, what needs to happen is we need to re-implement so many of the policies that we had under former President Trump. But when we do that, what is also the need for, I could say, maybe messaging? Because if we change policies,

how long will it take for individuals who are trying to come to America illegally to get the word, hey, stop coming? How do we communicate to those who want to come to America? Our border is no longer wide open so that we stop having these mass numbers showing up at our border. Stop the words and start action.

So Tom Holman is exactly right. Look, if you do just a couple of things that we did on the Trump administration, we're very successful. One is reenact the safe third country agreements we had with all three Northern Triangle countries. So if you transit through that country and you don't seek relief, you come to our border, we're sending you back to this country. Number two, reinstate the Remain in Mexico program. Here's what the migrants that today want, right?

They want to be released into the country even after they've been illegally entered. They want to work illegally without any consequences. They want to be free from lawful deportation, send money home and bring their family members. If you address those five issues as deterrence, they will stop coming. Ending catch and release will address those five. If we stop releasing individuals into the country, who we know 90% of them are filing false claims because they don't get relief, they'll stop coming.

The Remain in Mexico program, asylum and cooperative agreements, and our network of tools and stories we had. By February of 2020, we had seen a reduction in 85% of illegal immigration. Why? Because we didn't need to tell them what we were doing. we needed to do it. They knew that once they were crossing the border, they weren't being released. So once you stop releasing and you detain or remove while they go through the process,

they'll get the message loud and clear and they'll stop coming. Mr. Morgan, I know that you're still in touch with folks who work in customs and border protection. What would they want the American people to know about what they're dealing with? Yeah, so that, if they could speak for themselves and get their First Amendment rights back, which they can't. Their rights a certain degree, they're federal employees, and they do have certain restrictions on how they communicate, they would tell you that we're overrun, that the cartels own the border,

that there's nothing that comes across the border that they don't know about a proven profit from. And I think the last thing they would tell you is that what happens at our border doesn't stay at the border. The drugs point across make their way to every town, city, and state. The criminals, the murderers, the rapists, the fed laws, the gang members, don't stay along the border. They make the way to every town, city, and state,

and so do the potential national security threats. I think the last thing they would say is there's no downside to secure the border because not only will save American lives, but it's going to save the lives of migrants as well. Mark Morgan, the former acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Mr. Morgan, that's for your time. Thank you, Virginia. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thank you for listening to The Daily Signal podcast.

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