The Daily Signal - INTERVIEW | David Curry on Persecuted Church Across the Globe

Episode Date: September 6, 2022

There are estimated to be more than 360 million Christians facing persecution for their faith around the world today, according to Open Doors USA, an organization that advocates on behalf of the persecuted church. While persecution of Christians is severe in nations like North Korea, there are about "50 to 60 countries where there is intense levels of persecution," says David Curry, the president and CEO of Open Doors USA. Curry joins "The Daily Signal Podcast" to share stories of the persecuted church across the globe and to explain how Americans can support those facing tribulation for their faith.  Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Tuesday, September 6th. I'm Rob Bluey. And I'm Virginia Allen. On today's show, I speak with the president and CEO of Open Doors, USA, David Curry. Open Doors advocates on behalf of the persecuted church across the world. Curry shares what the greatest needs are among the persecuted church and how we can all support those Christians around the globe. We also read your letters to the editor and share a good news story to kick off the week. But before we turn to today's interview,

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According to Open Doors, more than 360 million Christians worldwide experience extreme persecution and discrimination for their faith. And here with us to talk about that today is the president and CEO of Open Doors, USA, David Curry. David, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure to be with you. I look forward to the conversation. So Open Doors advocates on behalf of those who are persecuted for their Christian faith. And as I was looking at your website and I was reading about the work that you do, I was really blown away by that fact that there are 360 million Christians around the world experiencing

persecution for their faith. What exactly does this persecution look like? Well, it can be anything from oppression, discrimination, all the way over to people who are being killed for their faith. Now, when you hear 360, you're like, how is that even possible that there's 360 million? Well, let me give you one case. China, which is ranked number 17 as the 17th worst place to be a Christian, has 100 million Christians. And all of those Christians now are being surveilled using technology, facial recognition, using artificial and artificial intelligence. and they are being punished for going to church too often, for trying to take their kids to Sunday school. There's a social score in China, and it's a deduction to be a follower of Jesus and to practice that faithfully.

So you're talking about 100 million people there. Are they going to be lined up against the wall and shot? No, they're not. So they're not exposed to that high level of violence. But they could lose their job. Their kids might not be able to go to school if their social score is lowered too far. They're certainly at a loss of privacy greatly because even Zoom Church is monitored in many cases now in China. So there are all kinds of levels of persecution.

You have some situations. I met yesterday with a group of folks that had just escaped from North Korea. They're followers of Jesus. There, if you're caught, you're going to spend the rest of your life and die in a labor camp because you have a Bible, because you want to go to church. Not that they have a church, but that you want to talk about Jesus. or have a small group or a conversation. And they'll be executed in some cases. So it ranges in many things.

When we say 360 million are under high levels of persecution, that means they have some sort of physical threat that could be beaten, harassed, raped, forced into a marriage that still happens nowadays in many parts of the world. So it varies greatly, but it's all tragic. Now, about how many countries? is this taking place? Because I think, you know, we hear about China, we hear about North Korea, maybe some countries in the Middle East. How widespread across the globe is this persecution of Christians? Well, we put out a list every year that measures the top 50. We work in about 60, and we measure in

about 75. So there are always individual incidents where within a country, let's say, that's relatively peaceful and people have the right to practice, someone could still walk into a church and hurt somebody because they don't like that particular faith. But large, you're really talking about 50 to 60 countries where there's intense levels of persecution or significant enough that it measures. So then how does open doors go in to these nations and get connected with these faith communities, with these churches, with these persecuted individuals, and And how do you go about providing them with the help and support that they need? What does that look like?

Well, part of our origin story is we started during the Soviet Union days. We had a really dynamic personality. He took a code name, Brother Andrew. That wasn't his real name, but he became like this James Bond. And the whole idea was just take people Bibles. So we've been at it for decades. And what we do is we build a network of believers. believers in that country. So we're not trying to make them American or open doors really start

as a Dutch company. We're not trying to make them Dutch. We just want to get people access to a Bible, stand with them and speak for them if they've lost their voice, if they're under some kind of political or physical torment and pressure. So we really just connect with believers that are there and try to help them. And that sort of helps us find the path to best serve them. Could you maybe tell us about one of the churches that you all are working with right now, what some of their needs are, what they're experiencing? Well, I'll use an example of the church in Eritrea. Eritrea is right there on the Horn of Africa, just above Ethiopia. They have an Islamic theology that's part of their government.

And while there's a constitution that says you could practice your Christian faith, the reality is Christians are greatly persecuted. there, imprisoned for years. I met with some of them four years, six years, eight years, and really horrible conditions. And what was their crime? They had a Tuesday afternoon small group at their house. So the story of what's happening to the church in Eritrea is tragic, but here's the good news.

These are people of great faith. They love studying the Bible. They love helping each other. They're taking food to each other. When they're in prison, you can do that there, because they don't have food, in prison, your family or your friends or your community are helping to feed you because you may not get enough nutrition. You may starve to death in there. So you're really in the picture of Eritrea,

you see the polarity here. You've got real pressure, real tragedy, real physical danger, but you've also got the strength that comes from their spiritual connection and their faith that makes these just really remarkable people. And I love spending time with them. I love hearing their stories. And surprisingly, most of the people under great persecution, when I talk to them, they've got a great sense of humor. They love to laugh. They've got a lot of joy. And that's part of that spiritual transformation. We're so fortunate here, and we're always bogged down with every kind of anxiety and whatever. But these people have lost everything, and they found out that their faith, that Jesus is enough. That's how I would say it. Well, I think we could just end it right there

and that Jesus is enough. I love that. I mean, when you talk to people and you kind of ask them, why is it worth it to you? What do you hear most common? You know, whether you're in China or Africa or the Middle East, I think for so many of us who have the privilege of living in a country like America where we're not persecuted for our faith, you know, it's sort of that you have that question of, you know, well, you know, why not to sort of maybe keep your faith entirely to yourself and don't ever join a church community. And, you know, just it's all the question of, you know, why don't they really just try to self-preserve? Why are they willing to be somewhat vocal about their faith, to be a part of a faith community, even if it means persecution and risking their lives?

I'm sure there are some people for whom their religion is their identity, and it doesn't go much further than that. And I think that that's where you have people who struggle under the pressure. The answer to your question, why is it worth it is because this is the stories I hear is because they've had this transformational experience. It's made their life better. It's deeper, more a more sense of value and purpose. It's helped them in many cases. Let me give you an example. I met with an Iranian believer. He lived in a beautiful part of Iran, but he got totally addicted to drugs and was racked with drugs. It was a transformational experience when he was introduced to Jesus by a family member

that got him out of drugs, helped rebuild his family, his wife took him back, she became a follower of Jesus. So their faith wasn't just like an identity thing. It was like something that transformed their life. And then they got in trouble because they started going to a small group. Now their family had been reunited, been rebuilt, all of a sudden now instead of a drain on society. He's adding things of value to society's working. He's paying his bills, all these kinds of things. But yet, that was illegal. And so the question is, why don't you just

not go? That's not an option. It saved their life, right? So that's the idea. It's like this true, authentic faith adds, adds texture to life. It adds value to life. It helps you through the hard times. It's a sort of root, fundamental thing that you lean on. in the hard times. Yeah, so, so powerful. Now, you, congratulations to you because you were recently just in May. You were appointed to the United States Commission on international religious freedom. What do you think that is the role of the U.S. government to be kind of intervening or helping the persecuted church, helping persecuted Christians across the world? Is there a role for the government? Or do you think we shouldn't necessarily be looking to politicians to fix these issues?

I think the government in every day and every way sets rules that reward or punish behavior. When they don't want you driving too fast, they put up a sign and say, you're going to be fined if you drive too fast. In international relationships, we are saying we're going to do business with you because we think our money is investment is going to come back and we think it's going to benefit the American people and your people. So we're doing, making decisions, doing business every day with countries around the world that we're, on some level, we're trying to find some connected, shared values. If the value is commerce, everybody wants to make money, but there's no shared value of trust. You don't think the product is going to be safe or you don't think

that they're going to be using paying people the right amount, then we have to have these discussions. Right now, we're doing business with Vietnam, with Uzbekistan, with Saudi Arabia, I could go on, with China, with India. India is a massive, the government itself is a massive persecutor of Christians

because they want a Hindu government. So we need to say to our, start with our friends. Let's start with India. Hey, friends don't let friends commit these kinds of atrocities against religious minorities. We need to have some sense. You have a shared value and use the pressure and the strength of the United States government to bring about some connection there for the betterment of the Indian people and for everybody else. And then when it comes to what American citizens can do, whether it's getting involved in open doors. What are some practicals that everyday Americans can do as we hear stories of the

persecuted church across the globe? I think for people of faith, you know, open doors and other work like this, there's projects, there's things you can do to help indigenous Christian communities to survive, hopefully, and then over time thrive in these really tough places. I think for the American population as a whole, politicians and even corporations are downstream from the population. When you use your voice to say, this is not acceptable, if enough people do that, the government will do something, the politicians will get on board with it. And corporations will as well. We have a lot of corporations that are woke when they need to be because they sense that they'll lose business because of it. And there's a lot of

that that I don't like. The sense that the squeakest wheel, even if it's wrong, was going to get that kind of attention. But I think the principle there is just pretty human, that if people of values who care about religious freedom collectively share on social media, speak out, support these kinds of projects, people will take notice and I think it'll change things. That's a huge element of just raising awareness and making people aware of what's happening. And like you say, where, you know, maybe even private companies are, you know, somehow giving money to these countries and maybe there's a lack of accountability that we can be a part of bringing that accountability, I think is huge.

There's about 80 companies that are doing business in the northwest of China right now, major corporations that are using forced Uyghur Muslim labor, 80 companies. There are tea companies in India which use forced Christian labor. labor to make their tea. Now, I don't drink tea. I drink coffee. But I guarantee you if there's a coffee company that was used in forced Christian labor or Uyghur Muslim, I would not drink that tea. I would not drink that coffee. So I think... Are you willing to name any of those brands? It's all online. Yeah, I would encourage people to Google because, first of all, I don't remember things off the top of my head like that. But secondly, it's much easier if you just Google

like companies that are using Uyghur labor. It's all on there. And people should let those corporations know, like, hey, we're aware. What do you think the biggest need of the persecuted church across the globe is right now? And can we be a part of meeting that need? I think the first thing is for people of faith, prayer. They always ask for prayer. Would you pray for us?

Pray with us. That's interesting. I mean, it's a spiritual solution they're seeking, because I think there is a sense when you talk about North Korea, when you talk about Afghanistan, these are big problems seem intractable. So I think prayer is important. But I think then finding the thing that stirs your heart, I'm not somebody who believes that everybody should give to everything. Find the thing that stirs your heart and support that.

Great. We so appreciate your time and you joining and just bringing us the stories of individuals who are standing for their faith and who are persecuted. across the globe. Please, for all of our listeners, check out open doors, the work that they're doing. David Curry, thank you so much your time. We really appreciate it. Thank you. As conservatives, sometimes it feels like we're constantly on defense against bad ideas.

Bad philosophy, revisionist history, junk science, and divisive politics. But here's something I've come to understand. When faced with bad ideas, it's not enough to just defend. If we want to save this country, then it's time to go. on offense. Conservative principles are ideas that work, individual responsibility, strong local communities, and belief in the American dream. As a former college professor and current president of the Heritage Foundation, my life's mission is to learn, educate, and take action. My podcast, The Kevin Roberts Show, is my opportunity to share that journey with you. I'll be diving

into the critical issues that plague our nation, having deep conversations with high-profile guests, some of whom may surprise you. And I want to ensure freedom for the the next generation. Find the Kevin Roberts Show, wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for sending us your letters to the editor. Each week, we feature our favorites on this show. Virginia, who's up first? In response to Han Von Bukowski's piece, Michigan's Secretary of State fights to keep dead on voter rolls, Jim Bratton writes, thank you for the article regarding deceased people on the voter rolls in Michigan. As a conservative Michigander, it is alarming that a Secretary of State would refuse to follow the law. A

Aside from that, though, a more important question is, were dead voters allowed to vote in elections? If Public Interest Legal Foundation found that the deceased voters are still on the voter rolls, would they also be able to discover if any of the dead voters voted? Would be interesting to know. And in response to Doug Blair's reporting on D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser's vaccine mandate for school children, Tommy Gantt writes, this is unbelievable, but then again, I don't expect anything less of them, than to force people to take a vaccination they clearly don't want. It is unconstitutional.

We have so many people in this country who haven't been vaccinated for measles and mumps and all these other deadly diseases. But when it comes to the black community, DC imposes a regulation like this and just forgets about the 40% of black children. Things really need to change, and I mean really change, not just on the surface. Your letter can be featured on next week's show, so send us an email at letters at daily signal.com. Heritage Foundation takes to field on offense with their young leaders program.

I'm Evelyn Homily from Hillsdale College. I'm Harrison Stewart from the University of Virginia. I'm a journalism intern with the Daily Signal. I'm a digital productions intern in communications. For spring, summer, and fall semesters, the Heritage Foundation hosts undergraduate and postgraduate interns right here in the nation's capital to train our country's future conservative leaders. As a Daily Signal intern, I've had the opportunity to cover exciting events here in D.C.

and work in a fast-paced environment with some of the conservative movement's best journalists. In YLP, interns are on the cutting edge of the conservative movement, attending exclusive briefings from heritage experts, members of Congress, and movement leaders fighting for the fate of our country. It's been exciting connecting with big names in the political world and better understanding our nation's greatest threats.

If you want to go on offense with other passionate, dedicated conservatives, go to heritage.org slash intern to learn more about the young leaders program. Virginia, you have a good news story to share with us today. Over to you. Thanks so much, Rob. You know, unfortunately across America, the marriage rate has been falling for quite some time. But couples like Hubert and June Malacote are a reminder of why marriage is a gift and one that lasts a lifetime. Hubert and June both celebrated their 100th birthdays in July shortly after celebrating their 79th wedding anniversary. Their story together begins with a visit to a church in Hamilton, Ohio in the 1940s. They were both 19 at the time, as they told WLWT News 5. So we went in and they were all

standing and right in front of us was a pew full of young girls. And she looked around at me and smiled. That smile began a friendship, which soon blossomed into a room. romance. And in 1943, Hubert and June were married by their pastor. But it was not long before the couple was separated by World War II. Hubert served in the Navy and was stationed in Honolulu. The couple wrote to each other nearly every day for the two years they were apart. When his service was completed, June was right there waiting for him when he arrived home. As the train stopped, a conductor stand beside me, said she's waiting for you. Today, the couple has three children, seven grandchildren, and 11 great-grandchildren.

Faith in God is at the center of the couple's relationship, and when they said till death to us part, they meant it. The words mean something, Hubert says. Also central in their marriage is communication, which, as June says, has prevented arguments. We've never had a quarrel. We've never had one quarrel. When it comes to marriage, Hubert says he and June have always believed in a lifelong commitment. Our teaching, our background, our belief was, it's forever. And it's been that way.

will continue to be that way. The couple says they have prioritized family all of their lives, which has strengthened their marriage. So after 79 years of life together, Hubert and June say they are truly blessed by the love they have shared and continue to share to this day. Virginia, thanks so much for sharing that uplifting story about marriage and family. We appreciate it.

Absolutely. Well, we're going to leave it there today. You can find the Daily Signal podcast on the Rikusay Audio Network, All of our shows are available at daily signal.com slash podcast. You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or your favorite podcast app. And if you like what you hear, please leave us a review and a five-star rating. It means so much to us and helps us get the word out to even more listeners. Be sure to follow us on social media.

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