The Daily Signal - INTERVIEW | Lila Rose on Why Abortion Supporters Want a Culture of Consequence-Free Sex

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

Live Action Founder and President Lila Rose started her undercover work as a teenager, posing as an underage victim of sexual abuse seeking an abortion — but with a camcorder hidden in her blouse to document her conversations with Planned Parenthood workers. Her undercover videos captured the attention of the nation, if not the world, prompting heavy scrutiny of the abortion giant and its practices. Since then, Live Action has amassed 6 million social media followers and 1.7 billion lifetime video views. And Live Action says their testing has found that Live Action’s content has changed the hearts of 43% of those the organization surveyed on abortion. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Rose for a Daily Signal interview, during which she shared that she had done a lot of acting in high school and found it natural to empathize with the plight of a girl grappling with an unexpected pregnancy and to pose as this victim, sent by her abuser to do away with the baby. "I'm 15," Rose said she told the worker. "He's much older than me, 24. What do I do? I'm pregnant." "In the state of California, that should immediately trigger mandatory reporting," she explained. "But the Planned Parenthood worker, without blinking, told me to lie about my age in the paperwork to get a secret abortion, and no one would know anything." Rose believes the abortion industry wants to perpetuate negativity around motherhood. "Planned Parenthood is not interested in women having their babies and they're certainly not doing anything to support those women," she said. "They're interested in women killing their children." But the Live Action founder also emphasized that modern society faces an existential crisis in which people fail to realize that true happiness comes from relationship with others. "We're all seeking happiness, but we think we're going to find it in career or we're going to find it in fame or wealth or some sort of material thing when really it can only be found in people," she explained, noting that the ultimate person through which people will find happiness is God. "And so we reject our own children because they're a threat to happiness when really they're actually a key to happiness." During the massive protesting that took place following the leak of the draft Supreme Court opinion indicating that Roe v. Wade would soon be overturned (and in the months since then) I have frequently heard pro-abortion protestors say that abortion is necessary to allow them to have consequence-free sex.  Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Friday, December 2nd. I'm Mary Margaret O'Lean. On today's show, I sit down with live action founder Lila Rose to discuss her undercover work in the pro-life movement, her thoughts on femininity, masculinity, sex, abortion, and more. Stay tuned for today's show after this. I'm Zach Smith. And I'm John Carl O'Connaparo. And if you want to understand what's happening at the Supreme Court,

be sure to check out SCOTUS 101, a Heritage Foundation podcast. look at the cases, the personalities, and the gossip at the highest court in the land. Be sure to subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you find your podcasts. It's SCOTUS 101. Lila, thank you so much for joining us here today. Thanks, Mary Margaret. It's great to be here. So, Lila, tell us a little bit about your background. We know that you are potentially one of the most prominent pro-life activists in the world,

and you did a lot of undercover work in your early days as an activist. Can you share with us a little bit about what that was like? Sure. So the early days of live action, the organization I lead started in high school for me, and I was focused on educating my peers, basically. And at the time, there wasn't, it was, social media would come on the scene in just a few years. And when I got to UCLA, when I got to college, I started doing investigative reporting, starting with my undercover in an abortion clinic, a Planned Parenthood in Los Angeles.

That's crazy because I think, especially our college students today, know, when you're in college, you don't necessarily want to stand out. You want to be having fun and go with the flow. You were going undercover in an abortion clinic, pretending that you wanted an abortion, right? Yes. And for me, the context there is I was the crazy pro-life activist in high school. And in college, I chose UCLA. My dream school was actually Hillsdale. And I got a scholarship, and I was feeling excited. And then I thought, I feel called to go to UCLA. And UCLA is a big public university in California, 40,000 people. And it was because of life. because I felt that I wanted to go where people didn't already hear the message about the humanity of the baby, the violence of abortion, and the better vision for all of us. You know, that's ultimately the pro-life message is human flourishing for everyone. And so undercover work started pretty quickly because I started a magazine at UCLA and I realized that no one was reporting on the abuses of the abortion industry. I mean, media is not, you know, you're doing it, Mary Margaret, which is awesome. no one else in most of legacy media even touches it. You're so right.

I mean, it's hard to even get some of the facts because of how little people are willing to touch this. So you can you fill us in so people can imagine what this was like, how old were you? 18. 18 years old. You're 18 years old. You decided to go to an abortion clinic. What was that day like? So I had done a lot of research. I was like in the nerd in high school researching abortion and I found the work of Mark.

of Mark Crutcher, who I don't know if you've heard of him, but he did an investigative reporting, one of the only ones on the abortion industry since the 80s. And he wrote these books like Lyme 5, which, again, very few people even know of his work, but groundbreaking work exposing how the abortion industry covers up child sexual abuse of minors. And so I wanted to determine if that was happening in Los Angeles miles from my own school, because there's a profound link between abortion and child sexual abuse cover up because a lot of abusers, when they get their victims pregnant, they'll take them to an abortion clinic or force them to have an abortion. And then these girls are often sent by the abortion clinic back to their abuser.

And even though it's reported by law in the state of California, there's a law that says if you're a health provider, an abortionist, whatever, you have to report any suspected child abuse. Otherwise, it's a violation of state law. Right. So the Planned Pyrna Clinic that I went to was in Santa Monica, the first one. And San Monica is this, like, very fun shopping, you know, restaurant area. I'm 18. I was, you know, self-funded.

So I had, like, a camcorder from, you know, a college friend in the dorms in my purse. And I had, like, a voice recorder in my blouse. And I'd done a lot of research. And I was, you know, I did a lot of acting and things like that in high school and, you know, throughout my childhood, really. So it was very natural for me to be able to imagine what this girl was going through. an underage victim of sexual abuse who was being sent to an abortion clinic for an abortion. So I just channeled that identity.

And I get into the clinic, you know, I was nervous, but a girl in this situation would be nervous. Get in there and I say, you know, I'm 15. He's much older than me. You know, I think he's 24. What do I? I'm pregnant. And in the state of California, that should immediately trigger mandatory reporting. Right.

But a plan-parented worker without blinking told me to lie about my age in the paperwork to get a secret abortion and no one would know anything. And then that same day I went to a second abortion clinic. The manager of the clinic sat me down. The plan-parented actually was like a special case. She took me into her office and she said, first of all, she didn't bat an eye about age difference and that I was even pregnant. And she encouraged me to abort. And she said that when she was my age as a teenager, she thinks I'm 15. When she was my age, she also got pregnant.

She had the baby, but she told me that she bitterly regretted it. Wow. And that she wished she'd go back in time and abort her now 17-year-old son. Oh, my gosh. And that was why I should choose an abortion that day in her clinic. Wow. So it's just immediately. I mean, I just literally walk in and sexual abuse cover up and intense manipulation.

Wow. In their counseling. And after, you know, you posted this video, right, to kind of show what was going on there, Did people come after you? I know that David Delighton, for example, people really have come after him, Planned Parenthood and the state of California. Did anyone try and sue you? Yes. So I put the videos on YouTube and this was, YouTube was just starting out.

So the idea of a viral video is like a new thing and it started to go viral. And I got a demand letter from Planned Parenthood in my personal email, which was, again, I'm like, how did they get my email address? In my personal email threatening that if I didn't remove the videos, they would sue me for $5,000 for each of the letter said. And I remember like being like, I don't have $100 in my bank account. This was pre-life action as an organization. I mean, we were a grassroots activist group. Right. And no one had $100. Yeah. So it was actually ADF, you've probably heard of. You know, Alan's here's Alliance Defending Freedom. Alan's actually on the live action board now. He's fantastic. But it was ADF who got me pro bonal legal coverage as an 18 year old. And I have my first like,

you know, Fox News, you know, primetime interview. And I didn't know what it was happening. I just knew I want to get the story out. Right. Because the media is silent, you know, on the abortion industry abuse. And people deserve to know this. That's amazing. And so now, years later, because when was live action founded originally? As a 15-year-old in high school.

So it kind of was re-founded again in college, doing more investigative reporting that became national. So we launched live-action news, I think, in, I don't know, 2008. And then we became incorporated around the same time. And then I hired myself. I interned for myself in college. I hired myself when I graduated. I was like, okay, she'll have to do. That's amazing.

So I got my first paycheck, and then it's, you know, game on since then. Right. So now I would argue that live action, and maybe I'm wrong on this, I know there's a lot of other pro-life groups, I would argue that live action reaches more young people than any other pro-life organization. Do you think that's true? I should hire you to say that. No, it's true.

It is true. That's our goal. So we're reaching 15 million people weekly on average and largely millennials and gen's ears. and largely women. And that's by design. Why are you guys so good at reaching young people? Well, I think my experience in high school, reaching young people at college,

you know, reaching other college students, we kind of grew up with social media. We understand we were a team of artists and activists, so we understand the power of media content to shape minds, and we are aggressive in being unapologetic about being pro-life, but doing it in a really winsome way. And so that means understanding that stories matter and tug at people's hearts.

You know, the story of a woman who has an abortion and is devastated afterwards. The story of an abortion worker who sees the light and then leaves the industry. I've interviewed, you know, dozens. We've interviewed dozens. The story of the baby, who is, you know, heart beating, you know, brainwaves already firing, who's violently dismembered in an abortion. You know, telling those stories showing the victim of abortion, we do that through medical animation and through storytelling is just competitive.

telling. And I think sometimes in the pro-life movement, we can get caught up in maybe politics or public policy, which matter tremendously. And we do that work too. But really remembering that people are still making up their minds. Or they think they're decided, but they haven't really seen the truth. And so our job is to show the truth of the baby and their humanity, as well as the truth of abortion's violence. And then be, you know, happily pro-life. Part of it's like, this is an amazing movement. It's the human rights movement of the day. And no matter your background, if you're left or right, you know, liberal or, you know, progressive or conservative, you can be pro-life. And that's part of our message, too. That's really amazing. And I've

seen it myself reaching young people all over the country, I'm sure the world. I don't have a ton of international friends, but something that you touched on earlier is this abortion doctor, I believe, or abortion clinic worker telling you that she regretted that she had her son. And I think that's a really sad story. And it's also happened years ago. And now, even more, we're seeing a lot of really sad attitudes towards motherhood. Why do you think that is? I mean, first of all, the abortion industry wants to perpetuate negativity around motherhood. You know, it's hard. It will stop you from your dreams. It will make you miserable. It will kill you even. And it's a real industry. I mean, there are actually people who profit off of killing children. So Planned Parenthood is not

interested in women having their babies, and they're certainly not doing anything to support those women. They're interested in women killing their children. And they're a, you know, 1.5 billion plus organization now. Not, you know, all themselves are not for profit, but they do profit off of abortions in their facilities. So there's that. But I think it's also this anti-natalism that's gripped people, which is, you know, this, it's honestly this, I think it's an existential crisis that our society is in where we don't realize that. true happiness comes from relationship with others. And we're all seeking happiness. But we think we're going to find it in career or we're going to find it in fame or wealth or some sort of material thing

when really it can only be found in people and the ultimate person is God. Right. And so we reject our own children because they're a threat to happiness when really they're actually a key to happiness. And you're a mother, right? You have your two sons. How has motherhood changed your life? Is Did it destroy your career? Yeah. I mean, my sons are some of my greatest teachers. I'm honored to be their mother. I have two little boys who are my world.

I'm given them. They're a pure gift. I mean, that's the thing as mothers, we're not entitled or as women, we're not entitled to children. But if we're blessed with one, it is a true gift and a sacred gift. A child's life is a sacred gift. And, I mean, I've become more, I think, productive. I've become more patient working on the world.

not still. You know, I've become more hopeful because I see the potential of one life, more passionate. I'm more driven to fight for them because I'm not just fighting now for, you know, other children's future and culture at large, you know, with pro-life and changing culture. But now for their future, they're going to grow up in this country. What's their future going to look like? So I highly recommend first marriage and then motherhood, you know, if you're so blessed, yeah. Well, that's a great endorsement of marriage and motherhood. So part of marriage marriage is key though I mean my husband I could not do any of this without my husband Right so that's where I think like also just seeing marriage in context of family and and and

Motherhood in context of marriage is key too because I think sometimes we talk about them like their silos like you're a mom over here But I'm like you need you need a good dad and a husband to help you and women that don't have that you know they're They're superheroes because they're doing something that is so difficult but I think that's part of our society's change that needs to have and is empowering men to man up. That's so interesting. Be the fathers and the husbands that, especially if they're bringing life into the world to man up and be the husband first and the fathers that children and women need. Right.

That was another question I was going to ask you about because, you know, you're talking about how important a father is for the wife and for the children themselves. We have a crisis of fatherhood right now. You know, a lot of families don't have fathers. A lot of young men are growing up without fathers, and we talk about that a lot. but I think we don't talk enough about the women who don't have fathers and how that impacts their adult life and their decisions they make. And I'm curious if you have any advice for young women who don't have fathers who are trying to figure out how to relate to men and how whether a man that they're thinking about dating or marrying will respect them and love them. It's such a good question and it's a real, you know, another kind of a crisis.

of women who feel that they, you know, whether there was abuse in their childhood or there was just complete neglect and absence. And so there's not a model of what it means to be a man and what they deserve in a relationship with a man. And so my advice would be, I mean, I wrote in my book about some of my own struggles. I have an amazing dad, but he had wounds. He had issues from his own childhood and there were struggles and learning to, as I said in my book, read the story of my own life. You know, take a step back. If you're now an adult, you're teen, maybe you're listening to this, or maybe you're older, but take a step back, read the story of your own childhood and look at, okay, what was good? Because in all our childhoods, there's

something that's good, right? Yeah. There's something beautiful, but what was bad? And to do the work to address that, to say, this was bad, and I don't want this in my future. And so maybe there's, you know, therapy that I need to do, prayer, there's things that I need to do work on my own self and my own emotions because of the wounds I experienced. And then what was missing? You know, what was, maybe that father figure was just missing. He wasn't even around. And so how do I, you know, recalibrate my view of what it means to be a man? They are good men out there. There are great fathers out there. Even if you had a really troubled upbringing, you can have an amazing future that doesn't dest in any negative thing. And so I think going through that

process and thinking it through and then thinking about your own future, what do I want in my future and what kind of woman do I want to be for the kind of man that I want to be with? I think those are some of the keys. What kind of woman do I want to be for the man that I want to be with? That's amazing. I love that. And along those same lines, I think that we, when we talk, we have these conversations or we talk about abortion, what people often kind of dodge about talking about is what causes the baby to need. No baby needs to be aborted. But what what causes someone to think they need an abortion in the first place? And I think we've seen since in the past 50 years or so a lot more modern attitudes towards sex.

And that is what has been leading to so many abortions. And, you know, I was at the Supreme Court when Robbie Wade was overturned. I've heard a lot of rhetoric about this. And the rhetoric now is that women should be able to have sex whenever they want and however they want. And consequence free. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts. on that and the role that hookup culture plays in all of this in these current attitudes towards sex and life and abortion. I mean, every action has a reaction or some kind of a consequence, right?

You eat something and now there's calories and that nutrition, hopefully, in your body, right? You turn off a light, the room goes dark. With sex, there's a natural action that can come from sex, which is new life. And that's a beautiful thing, actually. That's how we all came into the world. and that's beautiful, it's good. So this whole ideology today that's just truly nonsensical. I mean, it's anti-science because it's like, well, I should have sex without children.

Well, sex is designed to bring life into the world. Not every time you have sex, because that's not how our biology and fertility works. Man's fertility, yeah, they're kind of fertile all the time if they're healthy, right? But for a woman, you have a fertile window every month. And yes, if you have sex during that window, you have a good chance of becoming pregnant.

And again, it's a good thing. It shouldn't be seen as this horrible thing. it's only seen as a horrible thing because we want to have sex recklessly and on our own terms and we want to divorce sex from its power to bring life into the world, which no matter how much we try to do, whether we're using contraception, it can still fail and pregnancy can happen, which is why we have the abortion rate. If people only had sex with someone that they love and were committed to and that they were open to having a child with, the abortion rate would disappear. And I think the opposition, the pro-bortion side know that. So they're trying to brainwash us into thinking

that sex without consequences is a thing when reality proves otherwise and trying to brainwash us into thinking that a child is bad. And, you know, it's like an STI getting pregnant when this is like a life, you know, a beautiful, sacred human life. And we just have to push back against the brainwashing and say those are lies. And we have this, this lie that sex without consequences, is a normal thing or a good thing. We also have been told recently that men can become women and women can become men and that these essential qualities that make a woman can be adopted by a male. Do you agree with that?

Well, it's this idea that a woman is makeup, a woman is a wig, a woman is a very ostentatious dress. And so you can put on womanhood like makeup or a wig. And it's just appalling. I mean, it's completely offensive. You know, your womanhood is your biolitan. and it's your power to be able to bring life into the world. That's the difference between men and women. It comes down to their unique difference to be a mother versus a father.

That's what makes us a woman versus a man is our reproductive systems. And to say that it's not is obviously just anti-science. You know, it's crazy, anti-reality. But it also, it's very pernicious because it ultimately, again, who in the end is wounded, yes, men and women by, I think, the trans ideology to say you can pull. put on the other gender in this way. And it also, it's not helping the mental, truly mental health issues at play there. You know, it's not actually caring for that person on their body, but making their body

the enemy. But it's also pernicious because it ultimately is destroying children, too, future generations of children. Because if your fertility is now, because in order to go trans, it's ultimately, it kills your fertility, you know, to do cross-sex hormones and everything else. It's killing off even your potential to bring life into the world. And so it's another, I think, form of antinatalism, you know, anti-future for yourself and future generations as well as anti-your-body. And the goodness of your body saying something's wrong with my body when really your body is beautiful the way it is.

And, you know, we saw this trans influencer in the White House recently. I don't know if you saw that. Dylan Mulvaney, a guy who identifies as a woman, I think he's 25. When you see people, when you see a man like that, dressed as a woman, acting as a woman, How do you feel? I mean, I feel sorry for him. And I feel that he is a product right now of a culture that is deeply confused and hurting itself. It's a form of self-harm.

And there's been a lot of forms of self-harm throughout human history. And I think, you know, the sexual revolutions, you know, sexual licentiousness, you know, just go have sex with anybody at any time. It's harm. You know, STIs that come from that, the mental health issues that come from that, you know, sleeping around doesn't make people happy. Makes them sad and sick. And similarly, I think encouraging people to hate their bodies, their biology because they're a male, but they feel that they need to be female, is also self-harm. So what's the solution? Embrace reality.

And reality can be hard sometimes because there's real things to fix in reality, but you can't actually fix problems if you're living, not living in reality. Right. You don't actually fix anything. And that's why even for people or adults or kids who enter down this trans path, the research bears out, they're sicker and sadder even after they transition. Right. And this transition idea, which you can't actually do. You can't actually change your biology, but you don't actually become happier. There's maybe a short window of relief.

And the same is true for abortion, actually. They say, well, abortion will make you happier. There's sometimes, you know, and we just did a study at live action can't stay silent. There's sometimes, you know, some years or months of a feeling of relief. but the long-term effects of abortion, same with transitioning, is devastating to people's mental health. Right, and we know with transitioners, we know with people who transition that a lot of them have been transitioning back. Yes. As it were, you know, like you said, you can't actually transition to another gender, but after they're doing all these hormones and procedures,

they're realizing they're not happy and they want to go back and sometimes they can't. It's devastating. It's incredibly sad. And their fertility is shot. Right. So if they ever had wanted to be a parent, a mother, or father, that is not even possible biologically anymore. And it's the greatest scam. Abortion, I believe, is the greatest scam to women and to the society that it's somehow good to kill a child.

The second greatest scam today is this ideology that your body is harmful, your biology is harmful. And as a child, they're encouraged to change it. And then all the transitioning that now is a profitable industry, I mean, even Planned Parenthood is giving out cross-sex hormones. to teens. It's a profit thing for them. They were making money off of it, and it's tremendously damaging. And on a more, I guess, positive note, I think in response to a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about, I'm seeing more and more conversations and social media pages and pieces popping up on masculinity and femininity. And I don't know if you've noticed this. And what I keep seeing is all these women being more attracted to, they call it trad.

I don't really like that term, but trad lifestyles. Have you noticed this? I have noticed it. What do you make of that? Well, it's a reaction to the excess. I mean, we've gone so the other way to just destroy male-female differences and men are just like women or women are just like men except you can become transgendered. Wait, if we were just like each other, why would you even transgender? I mean, it's so nonsensical and it's just so harmful. I mean, people aren't happy when they're out of touch with their own bodies, their own femaleness or maleness, when they're told masculinity is toxic or when they're told that, you know, femininity is somehow or being a woman is to somehow kill your child. Wait a minute. To be a woman

and empowered as a woman is to kill your child, which is your superpower to be able to bring life into the world. So, yeah, there's a lot of people who are, you know, they're fed up with that. Right. And I love seeing that. I mean, I have my opinions, as I'm sure you do about, you know, the versions of it that are the most healthy and the most helpful, because there's always this temptation to excess, right? Like, I'm going to go super tread and, you know, super feminine, so I have to look exactly this way because this is what being a woman is. Right.

No, it's true that being a woman, there's a lot of diverse ways to love out your femininity and diverse ways to love out your masculinity. And does some of it cross over in terms of, you know, you can have a man who's like a fantastic, you know, artist and a fantastic fashion designer and into makeup artistry. Yeah, that's possible to be a masculine man in the fashion world. Masculine man in the world of makeup. Absolutely.

And it's possible to be a feminine woman in the boardroom or in, you know, more stereotypical male places, 100%. So I think we have to stop with too much stereotype and lean in more on what is God calling us each two. And how can I become the best person, woman or man, that God's calling me to? That's absolutely right. And what would you say are some of the, some of, actually. attributes of femininity. Because I think we get confused about this conversation a lot. I think a lot of

people on the left maybe think that to be feminine, you have to like teacups and, you know, lace gloves and things like that. What would you say is the attributes of a feminine woman? Yeah. Well, the deepest reality of woman is our ability to bring life into the world and to nurture life. Men don't nurture life the way that we physically, emotionally can because we can carry life. and we can breastfeed life. And I think that's a key to unlocking what it means to be a woman is the receptivity and the power to nurture. Not to say that men don't have a role in nurture and not to say that women don't have a role in what I'm going to speak to what men can do uniquely. But I think leaning into that, you know, what does it look like to bring a caring to, you know, a kindness?

You know, it's funny. I think when men are most honest about what they're looking for in a woman, it's beautiful, all these things, I think men want a caring. woman, a kind woman. You know, I think there's this thing like the boss, baby, who's like tough, and it's like, you can be tough, but be kind. I think kindness is highly underrated for women and be loving, be nurturing, take an interest in the people around you and how they're doing and how can you help them and love them. So I think that's a key. And then for men, I think a key is they are protectors. They have to be. I mean, biologically, they're twice as strong as women. And biologically, if there's a baby involved, they're not carrying the baby.

They should be there to care for the woman who's carrying the baby. And so that protective nature and spirit that I think is more unique to men is something that I think men should lean into. That's really interesting. Because like I think I was saying earlier, a lot of people don't seem to know what they should be looking for in someone that will love and respect them nowadays. Well, in men, I say, is he going to be a good father? Right.

You know, yes, you need to be attracted. You need to share values, have shared purpose as far as what are we aiming for. You know, as a Catholic, I'm aiming for heaven. I want to get there and get as many people with me as possible. And what are we aiming for together? But in my husband, one of the big considerations was, is he going to make a fantastic father? And fathers are responsible. Fathers are kind.

Fathers are men of character. Fathers want to care for the vulnerable and, you know, get on their level with a child. They're teachers. They're providers. And I would encourage any woman, if you're dating or whatever, this is not just someone you have fun with. It's not just your best friend. Yeah, they're your best friend.

But is this someone that you can create a life project with? And are they going to be a great father? Not perfect, no one is. But are they aiming towards that? That's marriage material. There you go. Well, Lila, I don't want to keep you too long, but I would love to know,

are there any women out there besides yourself that would be good role models for women nowadays? that are looking for strong females that are in tune with their femininity and are willing to be good mothers, but they also are willing to speak up for the truth. So this is a woman who's out there in the biggest sense and has been for over 2,000 years. And one of my heroes is, my hero, is Mary the mother of Jesus. And historically, there's tremendously rich depictions of her and stories about her, because as a Catholic you can get down the rabbit hole of apparitions,

where she does show up in human history. And she has a tremendous role, obviously, in the Gospels. You know, as the mother of Jesus. But her story, there's so much endless riches to glean from the example of Mary. And then in Proverbs, there's the example of wisdom. You know, there's this presentation of womanhood as wisdom. And I think Mary is wisdom, too, because women bring wisdom. And so I would say, Mary, Mother of Jesus, Proverbs 31, is very beautiful depiction of what a beautiful.

beautiful, wise woman is, and I think is a great place to start for a woman who's saying, I want to find a model, maybe not on social media today in the typical sense, but still very real and active in history and in a modern time. Absolutely. I would probably say the same thing. We're both Catholic. And I wasn't always Catholic, but even before becoming Catholic in high school, I was fascinated by Mary, because she is the most well-known woman in history, and she's, I think, had the

biggest impact of history and any other woman. Yeah. Well, Lila, thank you so much for joining us today. We're so grateful to have you here and for you to share your wisdom with us. And hopefully you can come again soon. Thanks, Mary Margaret. And that'll do for today's episode. Thank you for listening to my interview with Lila Rose. If you haven't gotten a chance, be sure to check out our evening show right here in this podcast feed where we bring you the top news of the day. Also, make sure you subscribe to the daily signal wherever you get your podcasts and help us reach more listeners by leaving a five-star rating in one. review. We read all your feedback. Thanks again for listening. Have a great day and we'll be back with you all at 5 p.m. for our top news edition. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. Executive producers are Rob Blewey and Kate Trinko. Producers are Virginia Allen, Samantha Asheris and Jillian Richards. Sound design by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney and John Pop. To learn more, please visitdailysignal.com.