INTERVIEW | Supreme Court Hears Two Cases That Could Change Social Media Platforms Significantly
00:05This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, February 22nd.I'm Virginia Allen.The Supreme Court is preparing to decide the future of social media.Social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter are shielded from the publication standards that newspapers are held to.While a news outlet can be sued for publishing knowingly false information, the same strict standards don't apply to social media sites due to Section 230 of the communication.Decency Act of 1996. Section 230 exempts social media platforms from liability for what is postedon their platforms. But some argue that these tech platforms should be held accountable for falseor dangerous information that is posted on them. This week, the Supreme Court is hearing two
00:56cases involving Section 230. Joining us today is Heritage Foundation Legal Fellow and co-hostof the SCOTUS 101 podcast, Zach Smith, to talk a little bit more about this.Stay tuned for my conversation with Zach after this.This is Mike Howell at the Heritage Foundation.I know how the left and the deep state operate because I've seen it from the inside.When I was working for the Trump administration, I learned how the left made our lives miserableand how they continue to think they can play by their own rules.Well, now we're taking all of these tricks and tactics that were deployed against the Trump administration
01:35and turning them against the Biden regime.Through the work of the oversight project,we're exposing left for what they areand embarrassing some actors responsible.We're using strategic foiasand fearless litigationto force these bureaucratsto deliver documents
01:51they'd prefer to never see the light of day.But for our work to be successful,we need patriots like you to stand with us.You can take action now.Visit heritage.org slash oversight to learn more.There's no time to waste.Zach Smith, welcome to the show. We're really appreciative of you joining us today to break down what exactly Section 230 is and why it matters right now.Of course. Thank you for having me on, Virginia.
02:20So let's start, Zach, with that big picture. Explain a little bit further if you would what exactly Section 230 says and really what the point of the law is.Sure. Well, Section 230, it's part of the Communications Decency Act in 1996. And it basically says that,Publishers of content on the internet, like social media companies, Facebook, Twitter, Google, and others as well, that if they're simply publishing materials that other have posted, in general, they cannot be liable for any harm caused from that content.And Section 230 has really been referred to as one of the fundamental building blocks of the modern Internet.It's what allowed, has allowed, you know, search engines to proliferate, which allowed social media companies to proliferate.But there's been a feeling in recent years that maybe Section 230, at least the way the courts have interpreted it, has gone too far.And that there should be some limits or some liability that attaches to the content posted on the internet, particularly where many of these big tech companies are doing something that looks like content moderation, you know, choosing to highlight certain search results, choosing to deemphasize or even, you know, flag certain content.content as potentially harmful or misleading. And so this has been a major debate, not only in the
03:44tech community, but also in courtrooms across the country as more and more tech companies facelawsuits aren't increasingly invoking Section 230 as a shield liability.Well, it certainly is true that social media has changed a lot since Section 230 was firstimplemented in 1996. We've seen so many changes and so many new social media platforms arise.So why is Section 230 being challenged right now?What is the Supreme Court considering, first off, in this case, Tuesday?We have a situation where a California family sued Google and YouTube over the tragic death of their 23-year-old daughter during an ISIS terrorist attack in Paris.Why does this family argue that Google and YouTube are somehow responsible for their daughter's death?
04:35Yeah, so it's a really interesting question, Virginia. And basically, you know, there are two cases that the court's considering together, one on Tuesday, one on Wednesday, where Google and Twitter are both being sued under something called the Anti-Terrorism Act, the ATA, as it's commonly known. The Google case, as you mentioned, the victim in that case was killed in a Parisian terrorist attack in Twitter. The victim was killed in a terrorist attack that took place in Turkey. But both families are essentially.claiming that Google and Twitter should be liable under the ATA, this Anti-Terrorism Act,because they essentially knowingly aided or abetted terrorist organizations in committing these acts.Now, the Google case that you mentioned is particularly important and particularly interestingbecause Google is invoking Section 230 as a shield to liability.They're saying that they should not be held liable, that they cannot be held liable,under Section 230 because they were essentially just reposting content that others had provided to them.Now, the specifics in this case are really fascinating because essentially what the family in the Google case is arguing is that by recommending certain YouTube videos, you know, if you go on YouTube, a lot of times YouTube will recommend follow-on videos that will often start auto-playing after the video you watch has been.
06:05And so the families arguing that because of that, Google should be liable under the ATA and that Section 230 doesn't provide a defense to them because really what they're doing in that instance looks something more like content moderation, something more like what you would see in a traditional content curation process that is distinct, at least the families argue, from simply reposting the videos of third parties.So, Zach, given your legal expertise, what are the questions that the Supreme Court justices are asking?Give us from their perspective. How are they thinking about these cases? And what are they considering as they hear arguments both heard on Tuesday and hearing today on Wednesday?Well, I'm very hesitant to make any predictions these days, Virginia, particularly at the Supreme Court.But look, we've seen in the past some justices, particularly Justice Clarence Thomas.has expressed some skepticism about the scope of Section 230 as it's currently being interpreted by the lower courts.Justice Thomas had pushed for the Supreme Court to take up a case to essentially resolve some of the conflicts involving lower court interpretation of Section 230, the scope of Section 230.And so I think you should see and anticipate seeing some tough questioning from Justice Thomas and some of the other conservative justices as well.
07:32Now, it is interesting. Apparently, Justice Neil Gorsuch in the Google case was feeling under the weather. And so he participated in those arguments telephonically. But I anticipate the justices will have tough questions for all parties involving the scope of Section 230. One other interesting wrinkle I'll mention, Virginia, is, you know, in the Google case, essentially Google and in the lower courts, Facebook and Twitter and some others were.parties to the case as well, they're urging the court to decide this case simply on the scopeof the ATA, basically saying if you find that these tech companies cannot be sued under theAnti-Terrorism Act, there's no need for the court to reach the Section 230 question.And so it'll be interesting to see if the justices accept that invitation for an off-rampor whether they decide to reach the Section 230 question and clarify its scope going forward.So in other words, we could see these cases play out and Section 230 isn't even necessarily considered.There's a possibility that we wouldn't see any changes to Section 230 in the ruling of these cases.
08:49Yeah, that's right.And basically, you know, the other things some of the justices may say is, look, it's not our job.It's Congress's job to decide to what extent tech companies should be liable, you know, whether we think we've struck the right balance or,not, that's a question for Congress. And so I think in that vein, there'll be very interesting to seewhat Chief Justice Roberts does. You know, that's kind of a common refrain that he makes,appropriately so in many cases, that it's Congress's job to make policy determinations, not the courts.And so this should be a very interesting debate. And it may not be one that divides cleanly alongideological lines, like we typically think of them between the, you know, conservative and more
09:29liberal justices, this may be one of the rare instances where there could be some ideologicalcrossover.For those who want to see tech platforms held accountable for the content posted on platforms,how do they propose that that be done?I mean, the whole point of social media is that it's an open marketplace of ideas and ofinformation.So how can that aspect of this open space where free speech is allowed,exist, and then also you have this element of moderation. I mean, can the two be held together
10:07without free speech being violated? Well, it's a fascinating question, and I think it really cutsto the core of the question in a lot of cases. But look, we've seen two states, at least,Texas and Florida, trying to make sure that tech companies are not deplatforming individualsdue to their ideological beliefs.You know, both Texas and Florida pass billsthat would essentially limit the abilityof social media companiesto de-platform or restrict access
10:38to certain individualsbased solely on the content they're postingon those websites.Now, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals,they upheld Texas's lawthat would restrict the abilityof social media companiesto remove or de-platform certain individuals.
10:53And the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals,another intermediate appellate court, they struck down most of Florida's law that did essentiallythe same thing, but with some key differences. And so the court is currently being asked to reviewboth of those cases as well. It's called for the views of the Biden administration to see whatthe Biden administration thinks in both of those cases. But what many people are saying, you know,there could be a potential conflict here depending on how the court rules in these Google and Twitter cases.You know, if the court scales back the scope of Section 230, the immunity it provides, while at the same time, if it were to uphold Florida or Texas's laws, you know, people are saying this could put tech companies in a very difficult situation where they are prohibited from restricting certain information posted on their platforms at the same time where their immunity could potentially be scaled back. So I think there's a lot left to play out in this space. It will certainly be.a very interesting set of opinions to watch come out when the court issues them. I think it will
12:00also be very important to watch and see whether or not the court decides to take up and reviewthe cases involving Florida and Texas's social media laws. And with all of these cases,is there a chance that the user experience could change in any sort of significant way moving court?I mean, for our average listener, let's say there are major changes to Section 230.Are we going to potentially, depending upon the rulings, start seeing a lot more content moderation to where, you know, someone posting an opinion on their Facebook page while we've already seen a lot of things taken down, that could just increase?Well, it really depends. I think we just have to wait to see how this plays out.I think we have to wait to see what happens with the Texas and Florida laws as well, because, again, the gist of those laws is to prevent tech companies from removing certain individuals.And there's always the possibility that Congress could get involved as well and pass legislation in this area.
13:06And so, again, I think there's a lot of uncertainty in this area right now.There's also the backdrop.There's a push by some members of the court to reevaluate the standard that courts apply when considering defamation.claims, how those tie into the court's First Amendment case law. And so I think we could potentiallybe in for a few years of uncertainty in this very important area, as many of these issuescontinue to percolate their way through the courts. And the tech companies and individualusers continue to figure out how to respond to these new changes. Well, Zach, Tuesday wasjust the beginning of a two-week argument session for the justices. Are there
13:49other cases that you're following closely? There are. There's a couple of big ones that the courtstill has to hear and decide. The two biggest ones are the ones involving the Biden administration'sattempts to forgive student loan debt. The court is going to hear challenges to that action in thenext few weeks as well. There's also an important religious liberty case,Groff v. DeJoy, involving whether or not employers have to provide certain accountto religious employees. And then there's a number of other interesting cases as well,involving sovereign immunity, involving takings issues. And so even though we are in the backhalf of the court's term right now, there is still a lot left for the court to do before they
14:37end their term later this year. Lots of exciting cases ahead. Zach, we really appreciateyour time today and your willingness to join us and break down these a little bit,wonky cases on Section 230. You really appreciate it. Of course. Happy to do it.Well, and for all of our listeners, if you are interested in hearing more from Zach Smithon the legal front and getting analysis from him, you can check out the SCOTUS 101 podcast thathe co-hosts with Jean-Carlow Canaparro. And you can also follow his work at heritage.org.But that's going to be it for today's episode. Thanks so much for joining us here on the DailySignal podcast. If you have not had the chance already, be sure.
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