The Daily Signal - INTERVIEW | Victoria Coates on What to Know About Biden's Meeting With Ukraine's Zelenskyy

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy met Wednesday with President Joe Biden at the White House before delivering an impassioned address to a joint session of Congress. This was the first time Zelenskyy had left Ukraine since Russia launched its military invasion of Ukraine just over 300 days ago. The timing of the Ukrainian leader's meeting with Biden was no accident, says Victoria Coates, a senior research fellow in international affairs and national security at The Heritage Foundation. (The Daily Signal is Heritage's multimedia news organization.) "I think the whole point was to force through the $1.7 trillion omnibus; that's the president's kind of last hurrah of gigantic spending, before [House Speaker Nancy] Pelosi gives up the gavel," Coates says. Coates says Zelenskyy's visit was "a Biden show," but the Ukrainian president should "embrace American conservatives" as potentially his most important allies in Washington. Zelenskyy headed home to Ukraine with a commitment from the Pentagon for a missile defense system known as the Patriot. But, Coates says, Biden should have given Ukraine the defensive support long ago, but instead used the promise of the Patriot system as a tool to bring Zelenskyy to America to push Democrats' massive spending package through Congress. Coates joins "The Daily Signal Podcast" to talk about the role America should play in Russia's ongoing war against Ukraine. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Dayless Journal podcast for Friday, December 23rd. I'm Virginia Allen. Christmas is in two days. And as always, most Americans are pretty busy this week, finishing up last minute shopping, wrapping gifts, and hopefully just taking some time to enjoy family. And while we've all been doing that, Congress has also been busy. While Democrats are trying to push a massive spending bill through Congress, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky visited D.C. to meet with the president and deliver a speech to Congress. So why now? Victoria Coates is a senior research fellow in international affairs and national security at the Heritage Foundation. She joins us on the show today to discuss why Zelensky came to America now, what he is asking Congress for, and just how involved America should be in the war effort moving forward. Stay tuned for our conversation after this.

Conservative women, conservative feminists. It's true. We do exist. I'm Virginia Allen, and every Thursday morning on problematic women, Lauren Evans and I sort through the news to bring you stories that are of particular interest to conservative leaning or problematic women. That is women whose views and opinions are often excluded or mocked by those on the so-called feminist left. We talk about everything from pop culture to politics and policy. Search for problematic women wherever you get your podcasts. And we are also problematic on social media. So be sure to follow us on Instagram. Today we are joined by author, scholar, and senior research fellow in international affairs and national security at the Heritage Foundation, Victoria Coates. Victoria, thank you so much for being here today.

It's a pleasure, Virginia. On Wednesday, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky met with President Biden here in D.C., and he delivered an address to Congress. This was actually the first time that Zelensky had left Ukraine since the fighting began about 300 days ago. So the timing of this was really interesting. It was definitely not an accident. Why did Zelensky come to America this week? Well, it is my opinion. And obviously, they're not consulting with me.

But from what I've seen, he came because he had to. President Biden insisted that he come. He dangled the Patriot as a incentive. incentive. And, you know, if Zelensky is trying to protect his own people, he has no choice but to come. But I think it's, it was very, very clear throughout the day yesterday that the Biden administration was framing this as a partisan issue. Zelensky, to my knowledge, met primarily with the president and with Democrats and obviously had his interactions with both Pelosi and Harris, you know, when he was at the Congress. And, you know, that to me was just,

And I think the whole point was to force through the $1.7 trillion omnibus that's the president's kind of last hurrah of gigantic spending before Pelosi gives up the gavel and it includes $46 billion for Ukraine. So they're basically forcing that issue to try to get the rest of the Omni through. Yeah. Well, and like you mentioned, I mean, it was interesting to see some of those asks that were made conversations happening during his address. to Congress, Zelensky thanked America for its financial support, and he added this per C-SPAN. Your money is not charity. It's an investment in the global security and democracy that we handle in the most responsible way. Now, like you mentioned, Congress is considering giving Ukraine some $40-plus billion for the war effort.

how much has America given Ukraine during the war so far? Well, we're already north of 60 billion. And an important point is that only 18 billion, I believe, of that has been spent. So there's really no reason to force this through now and burden the American taxpayer sort of preemptively with this expenditure. You know, you could wait until the next Congress. But President Biden is busy framing this. a binary choice. You either support his Ukraine policy with a blank check, an undated blank check, or you're a Putin sympathist. And, you know, I think we at the Heritage Foundation believe

that is a false choice and that it is perfectly possible to not want to appease Vladimir Putin to see the value of Ukraine allied with the West, but also to be fiscally conservative and concerned that the Biden administration has no policy to win this war. And one thing I wanted to get into a little bit is they've done two things that are directly counter to their declared policy of unconditional support for Ukraine. One is the Green New Deal policies that they jammed through in the ill-named inflation reduction act. And there's lots more of it in the omnibus. One thing, for example, is environmental justice, got a big. billion dollars in the IRA, get somewhere around, I think, another 100 million in the Omni.

All the environmental justice warriors do is tamped down U.S. energy production, which is one of our key tools against Putin. So they're undermining their policy right there. The other thing they did is release Victor Boot, the so-called merchant of death, who I refer to as Putin's chief military procurement officer who was in Ukraine over the weekend giving interviews about how he wants to volunteer for the fight. So we're going to send a whole bunch of more stuff to Ukraine where Victor Bout will blow it up. You know, I need the administration to be consistent. I need them to be serious about this. And then I think conservatives will be very willing to have this conversation. Are those things that Zelensky has brought up that we're aware of to Congress,

to President Biden? I don't think he would have the option at this point. You know, Ukraine is pretty dependent on the United States. There are others who are helping. God bless them. There's some who could do more, Germany and France. But, you know, I think he can't, he couldn't take the risk of alienating the administration at this point. I don't know what his personal views are, but, but, you know, what's he supposed to say? But I mean, I really feel particularly, you know, I actually feel equally strongly about both cases, but with the Victor Boot thing, it's just shameful. They wanted the photo op. I mean, and I'm glad Brittany's home. I'm sure we disagree on a number of political matters. She's American. She deserved to come home. That's fine. I would have liked to get all the Americans

out. But, you know, that's not the issue. The issue is that you traded a very, very dangerous individual who is returning to the battlefield and, you know, is going to just cost us. so much heartache and misery, and this just makes no sense. Yeah, yeah. Well, and when it comes to what Zelensky is, for sure, returning to Ukraine with, we know that the Pentagon, they announced this week that America will send a missile defense system known as the Patriot to Ukraine. How is this defense system going to help the people of Ukraine in a practical way?

It's a wonderful thing. One of the things I joked about is the first thing I would do if I were back in government is order 100 patriots. They're very expensive. So that's not exactly realistic. But what's frustrating is a policymaker, as you say, gee, I'd like a couple patriots in the Arabian Peninsula because the hootie are firing off all sorts of nonsense. And you're informed that the patriots are resting or they're already deployed against China. I mean, it's just this constant dance of where are you going to deploy the patriots because they're so effective, everybody wants them. and they're much better than, say, the Russian systems.

And so because Ukraine is outclassed in terms of air force assets, and so the Russians are concentrating on bombings that, you know, they have trouble defending against, the Patriot battery will be enormously helpful. But this begs the question, Virginia, where was this thing in August? You know, even where was it in June? The administration had such a serious intelligence failure at the beginning, of the invasion when they briefed everybody and their brother that this would be a three-day war and what they had positioned in country and what they were preparing to send would all arm the

insurgency. Now, that didn't happen. And intelligence failures happen. What then counts is how you respond. When did they pivot to the realization that this was going to be a much more traditional ground war that Ukraine had a chance to win? And why didn't they give them these tools then? You know, if the president is concerned about escalation, and he talked yesterday about the potential for World War III, you know, then this is escalatory. Why are you doing this? There's just, there's no explanation. And it just seems to me that he had the patriot, he the president had the patriot in his back pocket. And when he wanted to insist that Zelensky come to Washington, give him another photo op, help him get the Omni through, that's when he decided to spend it. Has nothing. to do with actually winning the war in Ukraine. And what's Russia's perspective of this, of America sending a missile defense system to Ukraine and moving forward, how should America be threatening that needle between helping Ukraine without getting America fully involved in a way that threatens our national security?

Well, that's an excellent question. And I think, you know, the issue is that Putin put nuclear weapons on the table in the first weeks of this campaign. The minute it was clear, it was not going to be a three-day war, he started talking about using a nuke to try to dampen NATO support for Ukraine. Now, at that point, you know, we should have made a decision, you know, nobody wants a nuclear war in Europe. Who is to blame for that? We are not. The Russians are. The Chinese need to be very clear that they've been bankrolling this escapade. And so if he does use a nuclear weapon, that stinks sticks to Beijing every bit as much as it stinks to Moscow. So they need to make very clear to

Putin this is something they won't tolerate. And he can't cross that red line. So I think that's actually the play. But at that point, you know, this is a defensive weapon. We should have rolled that thing right on in there, as I said in June. Putin had to assume we were going to do it. And, you know, he's not an idiot. He can see this just as well as we can that this is the president using geopolitics for domestic political reasons. You know, the kind of, it's very similar to, you know, his game with Saudi Arabia about, oh, please don't announce the price cuts till after the election because of my domestic political situation.

You know, he didn't care that, you know, that, you know, Americans are eventually going to suffer at the pump because of his bad energy policies. He just wanted to get through the midterms. Yeah. Well, and what we saw this week, and, you know, it's been happening for a while, but Zelensky's asking America for more physical support from, you know, things like tanks to fighter jets. Is that something that America would ever consider, even if we're not considering it right now? Well, I mean, you know, I would like to keep my options open. I think one of the great

sadnesses of the timing of this trip and the way Zelensky was kept on a very short leash is it is my opinion that he should embrace American conservatives as potentially his best friend. You know, if I had been designing the trip, and obviously this wasn't going to happen because it was a Biden show, but I would have insisted on a meeting with a Freedom Caucus and answered each and every one of their questions and said, I want you, Marjorie Taylor Green, I want you to pass that audit. I want to open our books. I want you all to see our efforts and transparency because they're making them and it's real. I would love to have him at the Heritage Foundation, have a conversation with Kevin. about the future of Ukraine, you know, not imposing, but introducing a conservative economic climate, you know, that would be great. And that could have been done in February, or in January, rather, after the 118th Congress has sworn in. But it couldn't have been done now. And that opportunity was lost. And so I think going forward, I would really encourage the Ukrainians. And, you know, we welcome many Ukrainian delegations to heritage. Our doors always open to our friends. And so I think,

you know, to not let the Democrats make this a black and white situation where only Democrats are your friends and conservatives are somehow isolationist and opposed to that, to them. That's simply not the case. Yeah. It sounds like what you're saying is stop playing political football with this war and actually let's get down to business and talk about real solutions. You know, I just, I think if we're in it, we have to, we should win it. One of my main concerns is that we been around this Bush before in 2008, in 2014-15. This has been by far in a way the bloodiest and the most expensive. I don't want to be doing a podcast with you in five years' time because, you know, Putin was not deterred in Ukraine and has gone into Moldova. God forbid, a NATO country

like Lithuania or one of the other Baltics, then we are in it. That's what we have to look at. That's World War III. That's what we have to prevent. And the only way we will definitively prevent it is if Putin is handed a defeat in Ukraine. And, you know, no course of action is without its dangers. I know people are concerned that the wounded bear will lash out while he's lashing out right now. And he will only do so again. We have to learn from the lessons of history. Well, in looking to the immediate future, obviously, Russia invaded Ukraine nearly about 11 months ago. Neither side is backing down. Winter's here. How are both sides going to handle the cold? It's, I mean, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you use,

you look at it, they're used to the cold on both sides. And, you know, one of the really shameful things about the Omni is that a bunch of sort of glamour things have been stuffed into it tangentially related to Ukraine, like a Ukraine Freedom Park in Washington. And I don't have the line item number on that, but I don't care if it's $5 or $100 million. The fact that we would spend money on a park in Washington instead of spending that money on generators and ammunition right now is shameful. You know, this isn't about beautifying an American city. If we're going to spend money on Ukraine, we should spend it on Ukraine, not Washington, D.C.

Pork. And so I think, you know, being as supportive as we can within reason, you know, and getting from the Ukrainians, you know, if the Biden administration decides they're going to stop their hand-wringing and kind of half measures, and they do want to win the war, they make a case to the American people, how they think this can be done, and why we should pay for it. I think there's a lot we could do over these coming months. And the ultimate goal would be to change Putin's calculus that he, because right now he's thinking he can't lose the war and survive. I think what we need to change his mindset to is he has to end the war to survive.

And at that point, I think we could have negotiations with Kiev in a position of strength. Right now it's kind of a stalemate. And what role does Europe play in that? And how involved are Ukraine's European allies in this fight? They've been very involved. And I mean, countries like the Baltics, like Poland, like Romania, have really stepped up to the plate and demonstrated their value as key NATO allies to the United States. And not only have they been providing military support,

but they're hosting millions of refugees in an incredibly generous, open-hearted way. And that has been really great to see they deserve tremendous credit for that. And I think, you know, we should have a clearer-eyed understanding of where our friends are. As I said before, I do think there's more that the bigger economies can do, I think particularly France and Germany need to be more forthcoming in terms of the civil society support that Ukraine needs. I think the United States should be less on the hook for direct economic assistance, which were heavily on the hook for now. It, in many ways, dwarfs the military aid we're standing. should focus on the military, which we do better than anyone else. They should focus on the civil

society. They're there. They're on the ground. They're neighbors. And I think clarifying that in 2023 is something that Congress can play a strong role in. And do we have any indication? I know you mentioned, of course, you know, five years or now, we don't want to be sitting down and essentially having the same conversation. Do we have any indication on how much longer this war could go on is likely to go on. Neone Zelenzky had some interesting things to say yesterday, which suggested he thought it would be wrapped up in the next, sounded like six to eight months.

And he would have better intel on that than I would. Certainly, we should all pray for that. And again, going back to sort of our opening discussion, it's why the energy and Victor Bout policies are so befuddling. This war is expensive for the American people, both in terms of contributing to inflation and energy prices and also in terms of an added line item on the budget, if the president's serious about bringing relief to the American people, ending the war on favorable terms, given what we've poured into it,

should be his top priority. And it's just bizarre that they're running around doing things that, to my eye, are just going to perpetuate it. Victoria Coates Senior Research Fellow in International Affairs and National Security at the Heritage Foundation, Victoria, thank you so much for taking time to join us today and break this down. Thank you for dinner. If you want to read more of Victoria Coates' work, you can just visit the Heritage Foundation website at heritage. But thank you so much for joining us today. That's going to be it for today's edition of the Daily Single podcast.

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