The Daily Signal - Jonathan Conricus: Israel Will Have to ‘Rule Gaza’ for a Period After Hamas is Destroyed

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

“I think in interim period Israel will apply a military occupation of it and rule Gaza to make sure that Hamas is indeed defeated, that there is no pockets of resistance and terrorism and guerrilla, etc.,” Conricus, the former International spokesperson for the Israel Defense Forces, told The Daily Signal at the Jewish News Syndicate International Policy Summit in Jerusalem. Once Hamas and its sympathizers are completely defeated in Gaza, “Israel will move out and then it will transition,” Conricus, who is also a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, said. “It has to transition to local self-governance by Palestinians, not by Hamas, and not by corrupt Palestinian authority officials, but by local, vetted, non-terror-aligned Palestinians that have local standing in Gaza and that show that their trajectory, what they value, is the present and the future and that they want to build a different Gaza.” This plan will require patience, according to the former IDF spokesman, adding, “I don't think that we have any other options.” Conricus estimates it will take about five years to see positive change in Gaza, providing a “good plan” is in place with proper funding. “To think that this is a quick fix that can be done quickly would be naïve and misleading. That is not the situation,” he said. “There is a very bad situation that has been going on for many years and as such it will take many years to undo.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk. Business. Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conruchas, we are here in Jerusalem for the Jewish News Summit. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk. You spent 24 years serving in the IDF. You also served as the spokesman for the IDF internationally. And you've been raising an issue that is really, really critical as we talk about the ongoing war between Hamas and Israel. And that is Egypt's role.

For Americans, for those across the world, that maybe haven't heard. heard about the significance that Egypt is playing in this conflict. Just break it down for a second if you would. I think Egypt holds the key to the future of Gaza. And I don't think that anything good can happen in Gaza, not for the people who live there, not for Israelis who live around, without Egypt deciding to have a positive role.

Currently what the Egyptians are doing with their action to cruelly keep the Raffach gate closed and to prevent Palestinians from fleeing the war zone in Gaza, what they are doing is that they are, in fact, killing Palestinians and they are enhancing the suffering, and totally unnecessarily so. If you think of it, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people haven't thought about this,

but the conflict between Israel and Hamas is the only conflict that I'm aware of, where civilians have been actively prevented from fleeing the battlefield. All the other conflicts that we know, definitely recent history, Ukraine, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, wherever you choose, the first thing that civilians do, especially women, children, the elderly, and people that aren't part of the fighting, they are allowed to leave. That's what we want civilians to do, because war is a horrible thing, and we don't want civilians stuck in a war zone.

What Egypt has done, very cruelly, is to prevent. that from happening. And we have about two million Gazans, a million and a half, two million Gazans that are stuck in Gaza and Egypt isn't allowing them out. Now, what could happen in the future if Egypt decides, either out of its own good heart, or if it is incentivized to do so, if the Egyptians allow Palestinians out, only those who want to go out and want to seek a better future for themselves. If they allow them out, that would, I think, would mean, the beginning of the end for Hamas. It would put tremendous pressure on Hamas, on their rule over the Gaza Strip, and it would really, really make it difficult for Hamas to continue the war if

people start leaving Gaza in search of a better personal future. That's why I think Egypt really holds the key to the future. If they continue to block the exit, they are indirectly adding to the suffering and adding to the misery. Also, it's important to understand that nothing good will happen in Gaza as long as Hamas is still there. Gaza won't be rebuilt. There won't be a better humanitarian situation for people who live there. So if you do care about the plight of Arabs living in Gaza,

by all means, tell Egypt to open the gates and allow a rebuilding effort to be taken. What would you say to the argument that Egypt is keeping its doors closed, because they don't want terrorists to slip through the cracks. While, you know, maybe 100 civilians come in, two terrorists slip in saying that they're civilians that poses national security threats to Egypt. I think Egypt has quite elaborate ties with terrorists as it is.

They have been allowing the flow of weapons through the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt, Egyptian soil into Gaza for the last 25 years. So I think that's a very cynical and dishonest, argument to be making. Egypt is a big country. Sinai is a very big area. And if Egypt really wanted so, if they were humane and had some sympathy and empathy for the suffering of their Arab brothers, they would open the gates, they would build a humanitarian zone far away from Egyptian population centers, and they would have a refugee zone there so that people could go out, away from danger,

away from threats, away from war, and then Gaza could be rebuilt and people could go back. That I think is what we need to be cognizant of. We have to set priorities. What's the most important thing? Human life. If we want to preserve human life, if we want to minimize suffering, then the same thing should happen in Gaza that has happened in all other war zones. This isn't a special case.

People should be allowed to leave. And every day that they're not allowed to leave, I think it's an act of cruelty and inhumanity that is very sad and regrettable. What needs to happen in order for Egypt to open its doors, Is that are there multiple countries that need to be applying diplomatic pressure on Egypt? Is there specific tactics that Israel should be taking in order to accomplish this? I think it's a mix of all of that. But, you know, most importantly, the president of the United States, a month and a half ago,

said that he has a plan and his intention is to allow people out of Gaza and to rebuild it and to create a better future for Gaza. I don't see that happening. I don't see the American defense establishment or the American bureaucracy, the Department of State or Department of Defense or Pentagon or anybody else doing anything that I see is meaningful in order to achieve or to turn that into reality. And I think that's a shame. And what's really absurd is that the country that is opposing President Trump's plan is Egypt.

They are the ones who have coordinated together a coalition of sorts of Arab, and European countries, and they have formulated a plan that is a counter plan to President Trump's plan. So what needs to happen is for the US to decide that, no, actually, this is what we want to do. And I, by the way, think that that would be a tremendous step forward that could possibly really change the trajectory of the Gaza Strip. The Gaza Strip has been suffering from poverty, from lack of education, from bad infrastructure, from religious expectations. extremism and from 20 years almost of Hamas rule. And it's been a bad place to live for many, many years. It can change.

It doesn't have to remain like this, but there has to be significant change and there has to be really a shock to the system for more positive things to happen. I hope that President Trump's plan will actually turn into reality. And I hope that we can find stability and security and in the future prosperity. Because I know that my interest as in Israeli is for us to have. a strong defendable border, but it's also for the people who live on the other side of the border to have prosperity so that when they think about their future, they won't be thinking about killing the Jews and waging jihad against Israel, which is what they're currently dreaming

of. And they'll think of their future, what they want to leave behind for their kids, and they will have an imperative to do good things for themselves. That's the future I want to see. It won't be possible as long as Egypt keeps the door closed, as long as Hamas is in power, and nothing good really happens in Gaza. So let's say, hypothetically, Egypt opens its doors, civilians are allowed to leave, Hamas is largely completely destroyed.

Who rules Gaza? Who's in charge? I think for an interim period, for a few months, maybe a year or so, like in most wars, after main combat operations are over, I think in interim period, Israel will apply a military occupation of it and rule Gaza to make sure that Hamas is indeed defeated, that there is no pockets of resistance

and terrorism and guerrilla, et cetera. Once that is achieved, Israel will move out, and then it will transition, it has to transition to local self-governance by Palestinians, not by Hamas and not by corrupt Palestinian authority officials, but by local, vetted, non-terror-aligned Palestinians that have local standing in Gaza and that show that their trajectory, what they value is the present and the future, and that they want to build a different Gaza.

That's a process. That'll take time. That will take patience on behalf of the U.S. and the world, the UN, Arab countries, etc. It will take patience and commitment on behalf of Israel. But I don't think that we have any other options. And I think that if we are focused and if we have a good plan with funding and priorities, then we can see a change for the better in five or so years in Gaza. To think that this is a quick fix that can be done quickly would be naive and misleading.

That is not a situation. There's a very bad situation that has been going on for many years. And as such, it will take many years to undo. I want to take one step back before I look. let you go. We still have 24 living, believed to be living hostages that remain in Gaza. When we talk about Hamas being completely dismantled, that obviously implies a lot more aggressive action in Gaza. Is it possible to get the remaining hostages out who are still believed to be alive, keep them alive while at the same time continuing to completely dismantle Hamas?

Yeah, just correct. And I'd say that Hamas, unfortunately, isn't dismantled yet. Hamas has sustained significant blows and they've had lots of casualties. Many of their capabilities have been taken out. But at the end of the day, Hamas is still there. They still have armed terrorists with weapons and capabilities and they more or less still govern the Gaza Strip. I think the sad thing about this whole hostage situation, the saddest thing is that unfortunately Hamas, I think, won't release all of the hostages. And Israel will have to come to a decision where it chooses either the hostages or winning the war.

That is what Hamas is trying to do to Israel. Hamas is trying to force Israel to stop the war, falling short of its basic goals and requirements, which means that Hamas is still in existence at the end of the war. I think that's not something that Israel can agree to. I think that would be a long-term threat not only for the local communities, around the Gaza Strip, but for all of Israel. And I think that within the coming few weeks, my assessment is that we'll see an escalation in the situation.

There's more and more pressure being bought to bear on Hamas, and they're running low on essential supplies. I think within three, four weeks, we'll see Hamas act more violently on the ground, and we will see Hamas using their proxies, friends and allies around the world. certain Arab states, Turkey, Qatar, certain European states, UN institutions, they will enhance the pressure, the diplomatic pressure against Israel, because Hamas will be under fire and under pressure domestically.

And I think that then Israel will have to decide, what do we do? Do we go for decisive, complete victory over Hamas, or do we cave into Hamas's demands, get some of the 24 live hostages back and maybe all 59 of the hostages that are still there or do we try to actually defeat Hamas and that'll be a tough decision I feel tremendously the pain of the families I can't even imagine what they are going through knowing that their loved ones are suffering underground in enduring Hamas torture psychological torture malnourishment, humiliation, all kinds of horrible abuse.

And every day that goes by, from an Israeli perspective, is a day wasted when we have our people there in Hamas captivity. Such a really hard situation when you look at it in that context of hard decisions that have to be made. I want to allow you to share a little bit about a new initiative that you undertook, how folks can follow your work as you continue to share your insights on this ongoing. ongoing issue. Yeah, I'm responding to popular demand. Lots of people around the world have gone, I think they've become disenchanted with traditional media, with mainstream media. They feel that

they don't get the information that they need. They feel that there's lots of bias and filters and much of it is negative towards Israel. And what I do is each week, I issue a short 10-minute episode, which is called the bottom line, which is short to the point and tells people what the current security situation is in Israel and what lies ahead, according to my assessment, unaffiliated, beholden to nothing but the truth. And as I understand the situation, it's out on X and it will be on YouTube and Facebook and Instagram as well. And I hope people will follow it. Excellent. Excellent. Check out the bottom line. Lieutenant Colonel, thank you for your time. Thank you.

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