The Daily Signal - Kay C. James on Why Conservatives Should Lead the Civil Rights Movement

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

The killing of George Floyd was “a tipping point for many Americans” says Kay C. James, president of The Heritage Foundation.    James lived through the civil rights movement and has experienced segregation firsthand. Today, she joins the podcast to share her own story. “I thankfully have lived long enough to see that the America that I loved provided a means and a pathway forward, but I am also not blind to what exists today,” says James.   James also encourages conservatives to be the voices leading the civil rights movement today, because conservative solutions have the power to end many of the racial inequalities the African American community is experiencing.   We also cover these stories: George Floyd’s memorial service was held in Minneapolis. Attorney General Barr addresses Floyd's death and the African American community's experience with police. A Richmond statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee is being taken down.  Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Friday, June 5th. I'm Rachel Dahl Judas. And I'm Virginia Allen. After the killing of George Floyd, many Americans are asking what they can do. But sometimes the most powerful response is just to listen and learn. I'm thrilled to share a recent interview with you all today with Heritage Foundation president, K. Coles James. Mrs. James joined Lauren Evans and I on the Daily Signal's problematic women podcast this week.

And the conversation was just too good not to share with you all today. Mrs. James not only tells us a little bit of her own story of living through the civil rights movement, but also challenges conservatives to be the voices providing solutions to the racial inequalities we see today. Don't forget, if you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to leave a review or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now on to our top news. On Thursday, there was a memorial held for George Floyd in Minneapolis. Here's what Philones Floyd, George Floyd's younger brother, had to say via NBC News. All these people came to see my brother, and that's amazing to me that he touched so many people hearts.

You know, because he's been touching our hearts, you know. You come to Third Ward where we're from. People are crying right now. That's how much they love them. You know, I'm just staying strong as I can because I need to get it out. I need to get it out. Everybody won't justice. We want justice for George.

He's going to get it. He's going to get it. Also via NBC News, here's part of the Floyd family attorney, Benjamin Crump's remarks at the memorial. Dr. Martin Luther King said, he who passively accepts evil, is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really like cooperating with it. You know, T.I. on that video, what we saw was torture. Reverend Jackson, what we saw on that video was inhumane.

Martin III, what we saw in that video was evil. And so America, we proclaim, as we memorialize George Floyd, do not cooperate with evil. Protest against evil. Join the young people in the streets protesting against the evil, the inhumane, the torture that they witnessed. on that video. We cannot cooperate with evil. We cannot cooperate with injustice. We cannot cooperate with torture.

Attorney General Bill Barr spoke on George Floyd's death in remarks Thursday. George Floyd's death was not the first of its kind, and it exposed his concerns that reach far beyond this particular case, Barr said, per the hill. It is undeniable that many African-American, lack confidence in our American criminal justice system. This must change. Bar also said he plans to work against rioters and those not keeping the peace. Here's part of what he said during the press briefing via Bloomberg quick take. Unfortunately, the aftermath of George Floyd's death has produced

a second challenge to the rule of law. While many have peacefully expressed their anger and grief, Others have hijacked protests to engage in lawlessness, violent rioting, arson, looting of businesses and public property, assaults on law enforcement officers and innocent people, and even the murder of a federal agent. Such senseless acts of anarchy are not exercises of First Amendment rights. They are crimes designed to, to terrify fellow citizens and intimidate communities.

As I told the governors on Monday, we understand the distinction between three different sets of actors here. The large preponderance of those who are protesting are peaceful demonstrators who are exercising their First Amendment rights. At some demonstrations, however, there are groups that exploit the opportunity to engage in such crimes as looting.

And finally, at some demonstrations, there are extremist agitators who are hijacking the protests to pursue their own separate and violent agenda. We have evidence that Antifa and other similar extremist groups, as well as actors of a variety of different political persuasions, have been involved in instigating and participating in the violent activity. And we are also seeing foreign actors playing all sides to exacerbate the violence. The Department of Justice is working to restore order in the District of Columbia and around the nation. A statue of Confederate General robbery Lee in Richmond is being taken down.

Virginia Governor Ralph Northam announced Thursday that the statue that sits on monument Avenue in Virginia's capital city and that has long been controversial is being removed. Northam explained why the statue is being taken down during a press conference on Thursday per PBS news hour. But the Lee statue is unique. It's different from every other statue in Virginia, both in size and in legal status. You see, the state owns it, unlike most other statutes. That was another part of the plan to keep it up forever. It sits on a 100-foot circle of land, a state-owned island surrounded by the city of Richmond. The whole thing is six stories tall.

It towers over homes, businesses, and everyone who lives in Virginia from elegant monument avenue to the public housing neighborhood. of Gilpin Court. The statue itself weighs 12 tons, and it sits atop a large pedestal. Now, a pedestal is a place of honor. We put things on pedestals when we want people to look up. Think about the message that this sends, to people coming from around the world to visit the capital city of one of the largest states in our country or to young children. What do you say when a six-year-old African-American little girl looks you in the eye and says, what does this big statue mean?

Why is it here? When a young child looks up and sees something that big and prominent, she knows that it must be important. and when it's the biggest thing around, it sends a clear message. This is what we value the most. But that's just not true anymore. The statue will be placed in storage until a new public display location is determined. The Catholic Diocese of Madison, Wisconsin is fighting the 50-person limit imposed on their masses as discriminatory.

A press release from Beckett Law says that the May 22nd Public Health Order, that capped in-person worship at just 50 people is discriminatory and targets the Catholic Church for selective enforcement. Under the order, shopping malls, bars, restaurants, spas, gyms, salons, museums, movie theaters, community centers, bowling alleys, skating rinks, trampoline parks, and more are not subject to the 50-person gap. Bishop Donald Heying wrote in a letter to Madison, Wisconsin leaders. In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic and the racial injustice of the past week,

Our community is crying up for unity, for grace, and for spiritual healing, he said. We are ready and able to answer that call, but the 50-person cap has unjustly stifled our pastoral mission. Meanwhile, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said Tuesday that those who are rioting are not the same as those who are sitting in church pews attending a service. During a press briefing, DeBlasio said via the Daily Wire, when you see a nation and entire nation simultaneously grappling with an extraordinary crisis seated in 400 years of racism. I'm sorry, that is not the same question as the understandably aggrieved store owner or the devout religious person who wants to go back to services. This is something that's not about which side of the spectrum you're on, the mayor said. It's about a deep, deep American crisis.

We have never seen anything quite like what we've seen in the last few days. This is powerful, painful, historical moment. So no, he said, I have eyes to see. We're not going to treat it like it's any other day. We're not going to treat it like why are people outside the bars and not notice that all of America is grappling simultaneously with a horrible crisis. Sorry, guys, there's a world outside New York City. So we're dealing with this.

After nearly two years in Iranian prison, American veteran Michael White is coming home. White traveled to Iran in July of 2018 to visit his girlfriend and was arrested on charges of insulting the leader of Iran and posting private pictures of him on social media. Brian Hook, the State Department's special representative for Iran, helped to negotiate the 48-year-old's release and said per Fox News that, quote, Michael White's a pretty tough guy. He's a cancer survivor. He has now survived two years in a range. prison where he was beaten in prison. He then contracted COVID and survived. As part of the negotiations with Iran, America has agreed to release Majad Ta Hari, an Iranian-American doctor who was in jail

for 16 months after he did not adhere to American sanctions against Iran. In response to White's release, Trump said, in a tweet Thursday, quote, I will never stop working to secure the release of all Americans held hostage overseas. The white male who shot 23-year-old Amman Arbery, a black man in February, used a racial slur, investigators say, citing a witness. CNN reported that Travis McMichael, who is white, used racial language after he shot at Arbery, using the N-word preceded by an expletive. Additionally, Assistant Special Agent in charge Richard Dial also said that there was a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, according to footage obtained from a body camera. Arbery was shot twice when he was out jogging by McMichael and his father. The two were not taken into

custody until May 7th. Former Secretary of Defense, James Mattis has accused Trump of trying to divide the nation. In an essay published by the Atlantic on Wednesday, Mattis wrote, Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people. does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. In response to Mattis, Trump tweeted, quote, probably the only thing Barack Obama and I have in common is that we both had the honor of firing Jim Mattis, the world's most overrated general.

I asked for his letter of resignation and felt great about it. On Thursday, Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski spoke out in support of Mattis's essay and said, per Axios, quote, when I saw General Mattis's comments yesterday, I felt like perhaps we are getting to a point where we can be more honest with the concerns that we might hold internally and have the courage of our own convictions to speak up. Drew Breeze, a quarterback from the New Orleans Saints, said in a statement that he is sorry for making racially insensitive comments. Breeze had been under fire for his comments about the showing of respect to the American flag. Breeze had said ESPN reported that during an

interview with Yahoo Finance on Wednesday, Breeze reiterated his stance that he will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America. America. He later told ESPN that he stands with his teammates fighting for racial equality and justice, but also with the military past and present. I would like to apologize to my friends, teammates, the city of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community, and anyone I heard with with my comments yesterday. In speaking with some of you, it breaks my heart to know the pain I have caused, Breeze said in an Instagram post. Now stay tuned to my conversation with Heritage Foundation President K. Coles James about the death of George Floyd and how conservatives can respond at this

pivotal moment. Are you looking for quick conservative policy solutions to current issues? Sign up for Heritage's weekly newsletter, The Agenda. In the agenda, you will learn what issues Heritage scholars on Capitol Hill are working on, what position conservatives are taking, and links to our in-depth research. The agenda also provides information on important events happening here at Heritage, that you can watch online as well as media interviews from our experts. Sign up for the agenda on heritage.org today. We are joined by Kay Coles-James, the president of the Heritage Foundation,

founder of the Gloucester Institute, author, wife, mother, and our favorite problematic woman, Mrs. James, thanks so much for being here today. It is my absolute pleasure. Well, you have... It's one of my favorite podcast, and I don't say that in any...

retuitous way. It's for you. This is James. Thank you so much. That is so incredibly kind of you to say. We're going to have to put that in quotes and maybe put it up on a wall somewhere. Well, you have had a very busy few days celebrating your birthday on Monday, cheering the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission meeting Tuesday, and then the Women's Suffered Centennial Commission meeting Wednesday,

and all while still leading the Heritage Foundation. Mrs. James, how do you do it all? Well, I do it by having a great breakfast every morning, having a time of meditation and prayer, keeping up with geriatric yoga, and it keeps me going. I love that. You know, we all have to have our ways to really relax and unwind. So, Mrs. James, this week, Axios ran the headline, Coronavirus is old news.

And yet the virus is still here. People are still suffering. And many businesses are still closed. You're getting ready to release the final report of the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission with more than 250 recommendations. Why are you so passionate about this issue? And what can we expect from the commission's report? Well, I'm passionate about it because this virus has attacked our country in two ways.

First and foremost with the loss of lives. and the health impact that it's had on so many, and also with the loss of many livelihoods. If this country stays shut down too much longer, the impact that it would have, the long-term impact that it would have on our economy would be devastating. And so I'm passionate because I love this country,

and I don't want to see a virus or anything else destroy her. And so we work. And so we work long and so we work hard. And I am so pleased with all the individuals from the Heritage Foundation and those individuals who are on the commission who have put in more hours than I can even imagine to get this done in a timely way so that it would be helpful to the president and Congress and governors and mayors all across this country. Mrs. James, we're so thankful for all of the work that you're doing and the Heritage Foundation is doing on the commission. It really is just so inspirational to see. Now, I do want to shift for just a minute and let's discuss what's going on today right now. We're at such a pivotal moment in America's history as we grieve the loss of George Floyd.

and we ask ourselves some really difficult questions about racism in America. You've put forward a call to action for Americans and conservatives in particular to really step up right now. How can we each make a difference? You know, I have, and one of the reasons that I have is because for years, not just in the last few days, but for years, I have, I have. I have said that the answers to poverty, the answers to an unequal educational system in our country, the answer to access to health care, the answer to protecting our borders, all of those answers rewide within the conservative movement. And when I look at those protesters that are on the street, you know, I just want to shout at them that if you would take a minute and stop and listen to the voices coming from the conservative side of the aisle, we have real answers. They're not pandering answers. We don't pander and we don't do identity politics and we don't shape a message just to get a vote. We have real answers. the real problems. And I think that's why it's so important to me that at this moment, at this moment in

our country's history, conservatives step up and say, yes, I see the problem. I am understanding it perhaps in even new and different ways than I ever have before. And I want to walk with those individuals who love America are willing to lay down their lives for this country. I mean, we do. We love this nation. And in spite of what some people think, pointing out that there are things that we need to fix in this country is not the same as equating that this country is a racist nation. It is not, I have never said it, I will, I will never say it. I believe that the founders gave us a gift, a gift of a form of government that allows us to work through our problems, to fix them. No other country on the earth, none is as exceptional as this nation.

And what we need to understand is that to point out our flaws and say, let's together fix it. them does not mean we hate America or we distrust our leaders or that we are not supportive of our institutions. And that's why I'm so passionate about this. I believe that we as conservatives have the keys to all of the issues that are so important to those people out on the streets. And we have to step up and tell them, guide them. Leave them. It reminds me of when I used to say years ago that I believe that pro-life women should lead the feminist movement because we are more feminist than the so-called feminist leaders. We actually believe that we don't have to mutilate our bodies or kill our babies in order to be equal to any man. Today, I feel like

conservatives to leave the civil rights movement. We're the only way who really do understand individual liberty and change is equality. We shouldn't shy away from it. It's our movement to lead.

Wow. I have goosebumps. Yeah. You wrote in an op-ed for Fox that, quote, during my 70 years on this earth, I have lived through the civil rights movement. I have seen the highs and lows of this country. I have seen America's goodness and I've seen its hatred.

Can you tell us about your own personal experience as part of the civil rights movement? Yes. Oliver Hill was a great civil rights attorney and he was my cousin. I've seen him have crosses burned on his lawn. I personally integrated the schools in the South and had to walk past angry mobs yelling names at me as we try to get equal access to education. I know what it's like even today to have a grandson and a granddaughter. Incidentally, both of my kids in northern Virginia have experienced racial slurs at school and had to come home and ask what they meant. And I fought hard so that my grandchildren would not have to experience that.

And for anybody, anybody who wants to say that there's not racism in America today, all they have to do is scroll through some of the comments. section on Facebook posts and Twitters. And it's there. It's there. So we, you know, we have to stand against that as conservatives. We had the moral authority to stand against that as conservative. And at the same time, not blinked an eye about our love and our commitment to this nation. The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't know why so many people have a hard time with that. I explained it to a friend recently by saying, you know, I am a mama bear. I love my children and my grandchildren with a passion equal to any mom or grandmom on the planet.

But, Dad Gummett, I do have to correct them. I do have to tell them when they are. doing things wrong. And it's not in spite of the fact that I love them. It's because I love them that I want to shape them to greatness. It is my love and my passion for this country that compels me to want to see the American ideal achieved, to see what the founders, when they sat in those hot-crowded rooms and drafted our documents.

And they had a vision for what a great country could look like. And it's my duty as an American to live every day to make that dream a reality for all of us. Wow. Thank you, Mrs. James. Well, and I mean, like you mentioned, tragically, we are seeing that racism, it is still an issue in America today in our country that we love so dearly. how are you personally processing the death of George Floyd? You know, the video is, I didn't watch it for a very long time. I knew it would take me to an emotional place that I just didn't want to go. And as a result of that, I stood shield it from it for a while.

But then I decided I owed it to his family and to his legacy to actually. actually watch it. I couldn't close my eyes and stick my head in the fan. And I think what people are missing is that whatever the individual circumstances in this case, it was, in fact, a tipping point for many Americans. And I think we'll know more, we'll learn more, we'll see that. But, you know, for me, I understand the anger. I understand the frustration. I understand that there are those individuals who want to take advantage of that for their own personal gain and for their own personal causes. I am convinced that what we see happening on the streets in our country today, as people are burning and looting and.

and maiming. That has nothing to do with the untimely death on the streets of Minneapolis, of that black man with four officers standing nearby. The two are almost disconnected. But we know that there are those individuals who want chaos, who want to see race wars in this country, and they're using it to their advantage. More often than not, the peaceful protesters have gone home by the time that sort of behavior erupts.

We have to stand against that. It does no good. It has not helped the cause one bit. And I think every thoughtful person in America, if they could, would stand between those looters, would stand between those who want to bring chaos and destruction and push them back, hold them back. I would love to go out there if I could and say, we know who you are, we've seen you.

You want to destroy America. We want to build her up. The death of that gentleman and the rioting and what's going on are so separate. such distinct and different issues. It's opportunistic blacks and opportunistic whites who have taken to the street to use it. But do not, do not miss that even with those individuals out there trying to take the focus away from the real issues, that there are real issues that need to be dealt with, but not that way.

Mrs. James, you know, there is so much hurt, and you watched these protests, and when you're speaking to your children and you're speaking to your grandchildren, you know, how do you even begin to address this issue? And then what is their response about this moment in history? Well, let's start the conversation with, I tell them, if I ever see you doing something like that, I will personally come there and yank you off those streets. That's the first thing. And I want to teach them the history of how we bring about change in this country.

I want to teach them about the systems that the founders have put in place in order to address grievances. In terms of the process, I mean, let's be clear. You know, those who are yelling no justice, no peace, could we give justice an opportunity to work? So I want to teach my kids and I want to teach my grandchildren how you bring about social change, how you bring about justice. You know, people talk about protests all the time. What is it every January 22nd when we march down the streets to protest abortion in America? peaceful protest is as American as apple pie. I have no problem with that.

I have a huge problem with those individuals who want to usurp peaceful protests to destroy my country and my communities. We need to figure out how to shut them down, lock them up, and treat them as the criminals they are. And, you know, somebody said on one of these platforms the other day, oh, you're just doing damage control now. You never spoke like that before. I have always said that. That's not new. I have been saying it for 50 years. I said it when we were protesting back in the 60s. Violence and criminal behavior should never be tolerated. What is so hard to? understand about that. Yeah. Mrs. James, many African Americans in this country have said that they feel

extremely nervous around police, especially when it comes to being stopped when driving. A few years ago, Senator Tim Scott said that he was stopped while driving several times in just one year. Did you have experiences

in your own or your family's life related to this? Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh, my word. You know, I think people feel that because as a black conservative, I don't wear race on my sleeve, and I often don't even talk about it. There are other issues that have been a priority, life issues, protecting our country's national defense. I am upset about the debt. And I mean, race is on the issue is on my list, but in an often. talk about it. And the moment I do, it makes them nervous. But by golly, my son and my daughter were visiting a white friend driving through a neighborhood and were reported by the police and stopped and taken out of the car, placing their hands on the hood of a car, and questioned as to why they were there. we don't make this stuff up.

It's real and it happens. And I should add that years later, out of a sense of irony, our family moved into that neighborhood and found many wonderful people there as neighbors who we love dearly. So both are true. Both are true.

Mrs. James, many conservatives are fearful of disgustling and tackling racism. And, you know, I think the left kind of invades that space, since conservatives are fearful about even talking about it because of the thought and the word policing. So what is helpful and what's not helpful for people to say? And what resources would you recommend conservatives turn to to have these conversations?

The first resource I would recommend is the Holy Scriptures. There's more guidance there about how we should treat each other than anywhere else. And it's a good guide, by the way. The other thing I would say is that I have been told in recent days, K, you shouldn't talk about these things. It plays into the left narrative. And my response is it's only their narrative because we gave it to them. It should be our narrative.

Take it back. Make it our narrative. We as a party stand for all the right things, the movement, the conservative movement. And so don't hesitate to engage in these conversations. They belong to us. They don't belong on the left. And the other thing that I would say is that talking about race, and I said this to several of my white friends one night when we were sitting around having a great conversation, and the conversation,

turn to race. And I said, could we please talk about movies or books or almost anything because that conversation is so extremely painful. And it's painful to both sides. And, you know, as human beings, we typically avoid pain. But sometimes you've got to pull the scab off so the womb can heal. And so sometimes we've got to have those difficult and painful conversations. And I am grateful, grateful for my friends who over the years have allowed me to process all of this, who stood beside me, who are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am grateful for their friendship and for they have listened and learned. And they said, I don't see what you see.

I have not walked in your shoes, but I want to know and I want to understand. And so one of the first things that I would say is, you know, please don't shut us down and say, I don't want to hear about race anymore. Please don't shut us down and say, I don't believe that there is a problem today anymore. Listen. Listen, so that we together can heal. I live long enough that I know, and I listen to some of these young folks out there, they don't understand how far we've come.

They can't celebrate our victories because I live through the segregated water fountains and the segregated lunch counters, the segregated school. I live through that movement, and I can see the progress. I thankfully have lived long enough to see that the America that I love provided a means and a pathway forward. But I am also not blind to what exists today, and it's okay to talk about it. And when you do, it doesn't mean that you hate America. It means that you celebrate who we are as Americans and the gift that we've been given. Ms. James, thank you so much for your time. We really, really appreciate it.

Oh, thank you for tackling this difficult, difficult issue. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast. We do appreciate your patience as we record remotely during these weeks. Please be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google, Play or Spotify. And please leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts and give us your feedback. Stay healthy and we will be back with you all on Monday. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation.

It is executive produced by Kate Shrinco and Rachel Del Judas. Sound design by Lauren Evans, Fulia Rampersad, Mark Geinie, and John Pop. For more information, visitdailySignal.com.