The Daily Signal - 'Medicare for All ... Is Going to Destroy the Quality of Medicine That We Have,' Lawmaker Says

Episode Date: March 12, 2020

Rep. Jim Hagedorn of Minnesota is passionate about health care policy. His state is home to the headquarters of the Mayo Clinic, which he calls "the preeminent institution of medicine in all the world." Hagedorn also is receiving cancer treatment at the Mayo Clinic following a diagnosis of kidney cancer. We discuss health care policy and why Medicare for All isn’t the answer. Plus, former Representative Dave Brat joins the show to talk about his transition from the public sector to the private sector, and his perspective on the education system given his new role as the Dean of Liberty University’s School of Business.  We also cover these stories: The World Health Organization says that the coronavirus is now a pandemic.  The house is expected to vote on a coronavirus package today. Cronavirus is only “going to get worse,” according to Dr. Anthony Fauci, who directs the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and is member of the President Donald Trump’s task force on coronavirus.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, March 12th. I'm Virginia Allen. And I'm Rachel Del Judas. On today's podcast, I sit down with Representative Jim Haganorn of Minnesota to talk health care policy and why Medicare for all isn't the answer. Plus, former representative Dave Bratt of Virginia joins the show to talk about his transition from the public sector to the private sector and his perspective on the education system

given his new rule as the Dean of Liberty University School of Business. Don't forget if you're enjoying this podcast. please be sure to leave a review or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now on to our top news. The World Health Organization says that the coronavirus is now a pandemic. Tedros de Brezos, the World Health Organization Director, said, this is the first pandemic caused by coronavirus. The World Health Organization has been in full response mode since we were notified of the first cases, he said,

and we have called every day for countries to take urgent and aggressive action. We have rung the alarm bell loud and clear. So far, coronavirus has killed over 4,000 people and is in 114 countries, eight of which, including the United States, have over 1,000 coronavirus illnesses. The House is expected to vote on a coronavirus package today. We don't want to panic, but we don't want to give the impression this isn't a major health challenge. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said on Wednesday per Fox News. Hoyer said the cost of the package would be in the billions. Hoyer also said that the package wouldn't include the temporary suspension of the payroll tax cut requested by the Trump administration.

Although it's expected that the White House and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, as well as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, will have further discussions to get a compromise. Coronavirus is only going to get worse, according to Dr. Anthony Fawke, who directs the National Institute, of allergy and infectious diseases, and is a member of President Donald Trump's task force on coronavirus. Fawke testified before the House Oversight and Reform Committee about the coronavirus situation in the United States. At least 31 people have died from coronavirus, and over 1,000 people are currently sick with it, according to John Hopkins University. Disgraced Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein has been sentenced to 23 years in jail. Weinstein said, per variety, to all the women who have testified, we may have different

truths, but I have great remorse for all of you. He also seemed to raise concerns about the hashtag Me Too movement, saying this feeling of thousands of men and women who are losing due process, I'm worried about this country. In late February, Weinstein, who was behind Oscar's favorite studio Miramax, was found guilty by a jury of rape and sexual assault. Next up, we'll have my interviews with Representative Jim Haggardorn of Minnesota and former Representative Dave Bratt of Virginia. Do conversations about the Supreme Court leave you scratching your head? If you want to

understand what's happening at the court, subscribe to SCOTUS 101, a Heritage Foundation podcast, breaking down the cases, personalities, and gossip at the Supreme Court. We're joined today on the Daily Signal podcast by Congressman Jim Haggadorn of Minnesota. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us today. It's great to be with you, Rachel. Well, thank you for being here. So to start off, your district includes the Mayo Clinic

and you're very passionate about health care, free markets, and how Mayo Clinic has been able to grow there because of the free markets that you have. Can you tell us about that and why socialist policies would harm the progress that is now? Yeah, Southern Minnesota's home to many great institutions of medicine. We have some fine rural hospitals, including also then the Mayo Clinic,

which is the preeminent institution of medicine in all the world. You know, the quality that we have in the United States for medical care is second to none. And I don't ever want to see that degraded. And the opportunity that we have to receive biopharmaceutical cures that are literally saving people's lives and letting people live the best life possible, it's just happening every day all these cures that are coming out. So making sure we protect that is really important. It's had, you know, the Mayo Clinic also has, and in a lot of our hospitals across the country, an enormous economic effect in and around them. We have like 40,000 people that work at Mayo in Rochester every day. And there's 100,000 people across my district

direct and indirect employed by medical care. So it's really something. Well, you're particularly passionate about Mayo Clinic and the care they give because personally for you, you've been receiving cancer treatment there. Can you tell us a little bit about that and why you are so passionate about Mayo Clinic? Well, about a year ago, I was diagnosed with advanced kidney cancer and very fortunate that they found it before I had any real symptoms. And, uh, so, um, so. And, uh, Since then, I've been receiving treatment at Mayo Clinic, my doctor, Palliaro, just a terrific oncologist. All the people there, the technicians, the doctors, the nurses, very caring folks. And it's like that, again, like I said, at all of our rural hospitals across the district

and many fine institutions across our country. But to have that opportunity to get in quickly, to be able to start treatment quickly, and then to have pros that know what to do, it's been something to save my life. I mean, the treatments are going well. Cancer is disappearing going away. I never missed a day of my job in the last year. And some of these immunotherapies, which is what I'm on, are just game changers. The treatment allows me to my body to identify the cancer and then have my own immune system go in and kill it.

And so, like I said, very little symptoms, side effects. I'm very fortunate, and the people out there have been so supportive, and I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us. Looking at the Good Work Mayo Clinic does, how would that? be hampered by more socialist policies coming in to your state? For example, Medicare for all that lawmakers both in the House and Senate support, and how would that be hampered by the good work Mayo Clinic does? So good work, I think, of all of our institutions of medicine in the United States. Really, when you look at Medicare for All and things like the public option, that's going to

put more and more people on government insurance. And government insurance reimburses our doctors and hospitals at a lower rate. Usually for Medicaid, it's about 25 cents on the dollar. care up to about 40 cents. But the way hospitals and doctors make up the difference is they have people on private insurance that come in and pay more. And so, you know, Medicare for all public options is going to lead to more and more of this government. And it's going to take away ultimately health insurance from people who get it through the private

sector, 180 million people. That's not good. It's going to take money out of the system for our doctors and hospitals. That's not good. That's going to degrade care. It's going to force people to have longer waiting systems. We're going to end up like they are. many other countries like Canada and United Kingdom.

I mean, I bring up United Kingdom because the drug regimen that I'm on that was approved by the FDA within the last year, that's not even available in the United Kingdom. They rejected it due to cost. And so there are lots of people around the world who are suffering, not even able to get the most advanced treatment because of socialism. And then on top of all that, when you look at the difference between socialist systems of medicine and our free market system, which is unfortunately very bureaucratic, and highly regulated, some of that due to Obamacare.

But the difference is a person in my situation can get diagnosed by a specialist and receive treatment within weeks. In these socialist countries, it could be months and months. And often by the time the treatment starts, it's too late. It's just terrible. So given that reality, what would you say to people, maybe young people who are fans of Congresswoman, Alvangelo-Cazio-Cortez, who think Medicare for all would be a wonderful solution?

What is your message to them? Well, you know, the VA system that we have in the United States is the closest that the Medicare for all would resemble. We'd ultimately get to that point. And we want people to have choice. And if you don't have choice and options and you have to rely on the government, which doesn't always do a very good job in a lot of areas being efficient and responsive, you're going to be in a position where people aren't going to have much choice and they're not going to have much hope. And what we want in the United States is if there's a problem with somebody, we want to treat that problem and do everything possible to give. people long life and the best life possible. And that isn't the case in these socialist systems.

And I think once people kind of look at that and feel it a little bit and talk to people that have been in circumstances like mine and many, many millions of others across the country, they might come to a different conclusion. What do constituents in Minnesota think about these policies when they hear people talk about Medicare for all? And I'm sure some of them have received really great care like you have at Mayo Clinic. Are they skeptical of it because of how well Mayo Clinic is doing? And that's a shining example of what the free market does for health care. Well, I mean, when you look at what's going on in Rochester, Minnesota, with Mayo,

we have hundreds of thousands of people from around the world that travel there every year for care, because it is the finest care in the world. But again, we have all these wonderful institutions of medicine, the rural hospitals. People are getting quality care across the United States. And I think people, when they understand what can happen with socialism and more government control, they realize, no, that's not the route we want to go. Can it be expensive care? Can pharmaceutical products be expensive?

Yes. And we can deal with costs through competition across state lines of nationwide association plans, price transparency, which helps people shop to drive down the cost of health care. And then things like high-risk pools. So everybody in our country, no matter their condition, they could have expensive, pre-existing medical needs, they'd get timely quality medical care, but not everybody else would have to pay for it through their premiums. Those types of things that we can do more market-oriented make a lot of sense.

But right now, the Democrats and Republicans, they both agree on this. Obamacare hasn't worked. Republicans said it hasn't worked from the beginning. Democrats say you need to go further. And what the Democrats offer with the Medicare for all and the public option is going to destroy the quality of medicine that we have, and it's going to, unfortunately, you know, hurt people and curtail people's lives down the road. I'm going to fight that every step of the way.

I'll never vote for it. Well, thank you for your leadership on that. Switching gears a little bit to trade, you attended the signing ceremony for the USMCA at the White House, and it passed both the House and the Senate. There was bipartisan support. What is your perspective on how this will foster free trade? Well, I'm glad that the bipartisan support materialized at the end,

but people like myself, I was out there fronting for USMCA for about 10 months. We carried our little sign in parades and everything else, had the Secretary of Agriculture out to Farm Fest in Minnesota, and he held up our sign. I mean, we just wanted everyone to know that 48% of trade in Minnesota, ag trade, goes to either Canada and Mexico. So to augment that in any way it's going to be a good deal, especially for our dairy farmers who weren't even included in the original NAFTA. But I also thought that passage of the United States-Mexico-Canada free trade agreement was going to help us build momentum for other deals with countries like China. We've seen that with China, you know, phase one. We want to get to phase two.

We hope they buy our ag products, and we're President Trump's holding on to the tariffs to make sure that they comply, and we can get to enforcement later. But the deal with Japan on pork and beef, that was very, very good for our farmers, especially in livestock heavy district like mine in southern Minnesota. And then you're looking at the United Kingdom. They had the vote with Brexit to get out of the European Union. That was great for freedom, great for liberty, great for our relations, but also great for trade between our two countries.

Vietnam also deal with India. The president was just in India, and people say, how's that going to help southern Minnesotans? Well, India might want to purchase as much as a billion gallons of our ethanol. That's going to create demand. That's going to help support prices,

and it's going to help our rural economy. So I'm going to continue to be pro-trade, and we want a good, fair agreements with other countries, but we need to open markets and have the opportunity for our farmers, manufacturers, and others to export around the world. Well, thank you for sharing that perspective. You've also been busy working with Secretary Sunday Purdue.

He's the Secretary of the Department of Agriculture on a program that incentivizes the sales of renewable fuels and expands ethanol availability. You mentioned ethanol very briefly. But can you tell us a little bit more about that project you're working on? Well, the Secretary has actually been very proactive in making sure that we can continue to promote the biofuels industry. And I support that because it helps with excess production. And in many ways, these additives are making things cleaner and help. helping the overall economy, especially in rural areas. You know, if there was one area of disagreement with the EPA and the president's administration,

it was the way they were giving out waivers for small refiners. It wasn't exactly what the Congress intended. It was undermining the ethanol and biodiesel program. But the president's promise that we're going to blend up to 15 billion gallons of ethanol and 2.4 billion gallons of biodiesel. And that's a good thing. And we're going to hold the EPA's feet of the fire and make sure that the renewable fuel standard

is implemented the way Congress intended and the way the president has directed. We've been talking a lot about trade, we've been talking about agriculture policy. If there was one issue additionally that you think Congress should be working on, what is that? Well, we are working on it. I've been leading to let people know about another virus

that's all heard about the coronavirus, and rightly so, and we're concerned and taking steps to try to protect our country and help people around the world. But there's the African swine flu, which has devastated the hog population in China. This has been happening over the last year. Half of China's hogs are more than slaughtered because of it.

And it's affecting people in Vietnam, Thailand, the Philippines, and it's into Europe now. And so a great opportunity for our country. We can export more pork products, probably poultry as well. But what a challenge. How do we keep that from getting into the United States? So we worked on a bill. the Senate passed one over to us a couple weeks ago.

I spoke on the House floor, and that's going to augment the number of inspectors and beagle brigades at our points of entry to try to sniff out, find these pork products, and keep them from coming in the United States. That's the way our pork could be affected. And people laugh at the beagle brigades, but they're really good at sniffing out the pork. I said they're so good we should take them down to the appropriations committee

and to get to work on the deficit like that. But, you know, if the African's wine fever makes it into the United States, It'll affect more than just the pork producers. It'll be our corn. It'll be our soybean growers. It's going to be our packers, the truckers. Everybody on down the line to Main Street where they'll have less money. And then the American people will suffer because the price of our meat products will go up.

So, you know, I'm very concerned about that and want to raise awareness of it. And we're going to continue to do what we can to protect our food supply and our farmers. Well, Congressman Juncagdorn of Minnesota, thank you so much for joining us on the Daily Signal podcast. Oh, it's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you. Thanks for being here. opinion that you'd like to share, leave us a voicemail at 202-608-6205 or email us at Letters atdailySignal.com. Yours could be featured on the Daily Signal podcast.

We're joined today on the Daily Signal podcast by former Congressman Dave Bratt, who represented Virginia, and now he's the dean of Liberty University School of Business. Thank you so much for being with us today. Absolutely. Always great to be with you guys. So before coming to Liberty, you served in comics realm and a lot of different capacities. Can you tell us what it's like, first of all, to be more out of the political sphere and working in the education fields? Yeah, well, you get a little bit more time to reflect, and I'll just kind of give heritage a shout out, because you guys are doing what a lot of people don't do.

You start with the first principles and build from there. And so when you look at how this country is structured, there's a little bit of a paradox, right? That to have a free country, you have to have the rule of law and private property rights set up in the first place. So you have to have the law to have freedom. And where this comes into place that's very important right now is with this China competition that's going on. And now the virus is going to put that debate front and center for the world to watch.

But all of our firms, the best and brightest, the Harvard MBAs, have messed things up big time. And so we have our supply chains extended into China. 85% of our pharmaceuticals are being made in China, the active ingredients. and so, you know, what could go wrong, putting a monopoly position inside a communist dictatorship, right? So, I mean, how in the world did we get there? And so that brings up the next issue. We need some international rules of the game, right, for our firms and some sort of reciprocity, where if you're going to have a free people at the international level, you have to have the rule of law,

private property rights, the role for the media, to have freedom of expression, and reciprocity, right? If they want to send students here, that's fine, but then we get to send students there. They want to be on our stock exchange. We get to be on theirs. They want to be in our index funds. We get to be in their financial system, right?

And on and on and on. And the media, if they want to have access to our free media, we want access to their free media, not communist media. And so, you know, Heritage is one of the few institutions that gets down into those first principles and spells them out and tells the young people here, which is the great thing about CPAC.

And so that's what I've been. I've been digging into first principals again and then try to apply them to the real world and explain while they're important. So let's drill down into that a little bit more. What's what you're doing at the business school? How are you using first principals and other founding documents

and other things there to advance the department there at Liberty? Yeah, well, so I'm the dean of the business school, and so everything we do is applied in the first place. Right? We try to get right to real world practitioners. Our accountants have worked in accounting. Our finance bill have worked in finance. On and on and on.

So we're doing that. And then we try to follow the market. Our faculty don't have tenure. And so we follow the market. We listen to business. And right now, cyber is just soaring. There's 500,000 open cyber jobs in the country right now. So we have 1,700 cyber students at Liberty, 1,500 IT students.

and every class begins with reflections on the Judeo-Christian tradition. Our faculty open up with prayer. They weave the faith into whatever discipline they're teaching. And so that's why it's such a great place to be. And so firms are starting to pick this up. Out in the world, right, there's kind of an entitlement mentality coming from some other schools. And they take a look at our liberty students, and they want to serve. They want to serve God.

They want to serve their brothers and sisters and faith in the world. And that's quite a different philosophy. And so I get to be a part of that on a daily basis. Well, along with your role at Liberty at the Dean of the Business School, you also serve as the president of the Virginia Association of Economics and a member of the Virginia Board of Accountancy. So given your rules there, what would you say about the state of the economy in Virginia, but also nationwide?

Yeah. Well, Virginia's, kind of interesting. We're transitioning away from a diversified free market economy, right? And in, on this China supply chain thing, the first thing you learn in finance is diversify, right? Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Well, Virginia used to always outpace the U.S. in terms of GDP growth, employment growth, income growth, everything. And now we're not anymore. And that's because we've become addicted to the federal government, right? So it's kind of a safe You get your nice little safety valve of guaranteed, you know, monopoly special interest money,

but you lose your dynamic private sector. And so Virginia is slowing down a little bit. And now the Democrats have taken over head to toe, right? They've got the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, everything. All statewide offices are Democrat. Taxes are going to go up. The freedom of speech on campus is going to go down, gun rights, grabs going up. I mean, it's just kind of a Bernie Sanders socialist cookbook, right?

All the things to do wrong, they're doing. You mentioned the gun grabbing, and I know right now Governor Northam is pushing a package of, I believe, eight gun control measures that would be a front on Second Amendment right. So can you tell us what those eight measures are and how they would affect Virginia gun owners? Yeah, I mean, they're everything from assault rifle bands to bump stock to regs, making it, you know, their dream is to have a national database so they know everyone who has got a gun so they can come take them eventually. And so everybody knows the logic, right? They'll say it's, well, it's just about public safety, or this, that, and the other thing.

And, of course, it's not. If you look at the most regulated, you know, D.C. and New York and Chicago, the most regulated, and they get the most gun problems of any of the cities. And so we're fighting them. And I go back to the words of Ronald Reagan. He summed it up. pretty well. I don't know if I'll nail this right. But he said the Constitution does not say that the government should dictate the rights to keep and bear arms. He said what the Constitution does say is that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. And what is missing there is the role of the government. The founders were smart enough to know that the government was not our friend.

The rights we all have come from God, they're inalienable, they're pre-political, they exist pre-government. So Reagan put his finger right on it, right? It's not the job of the government to tell us what rights we have. We know what rights we have, and it's our prerogative and our duty as citizens to make sure we declare we have these rights, right? And those rights shall not be infringed by the government

because first they come after your speech, then they come after your religion, then they come after your wallet, and then they come after the guns. And they come after you, no that is. And then you, right. It's true. How are Virginians responding to this? What is the makeup of all the response? Are people supportive of this gun-grabbing measure?

Is there a dissension between pro-second amendment activists? What is that situation looking like? Well, it's kind of like the nation. I mean, you've got the coastal elites and the people who make money off of D.C. and the swamp and special interests. And then you have flyover country, right? Normal Americans. And so Virginia is kind of like that.

The elites up in D.C., etc., are willing to go along with this progressive Marxist Bernie stuff. But the rest of the state, 100 counties want to have sanctuary gun laws. They say, no, you cannot take away our gun rights. And so they're fighting pretty hard. And then at Liberty University, President Falwell is working with the governor of West Virginia on this vexit.

to see, you know, where is the movement on it? Is there enough energy that people want to, you know, it's all about self-determination. Some counties want to leave Virginia and go to West Virginia. And that happened early on, way back, and there's a little precedent for one county already has the right to do it. But it has to go through the legislature and all that. So we'll see what happens. But there's a lot of energy in, you know, Virginia's got 132 counties and cities. 90 of them are doing sanctuary.

gun policy. So 90 out of 132 are hard in on protecting the second amendment. Wow, well, that's good to hear. If any of these measures were to go through or even all eight of them, what could that look like, hypothetically speaking, for Virginians as a whole? Well, it'll just start chipping, chipping, chipping, and some of the gun rights will go away all together. And then they get momentum. And once you have precedent set, right, then it makes it easier for the rest of them to through. So it's a slippery slope, and they know what they're doing. Now that you're out of Congress, you're working in education, how would you rate Congress's performance in the time that you've been out? What do you think of what's going on? Oh, the time I'm out, it's an F. I mean, I was

upset enough with my own team, right? I mean, we campaigned and said for seven years, we're going to repeal Obamacare, and then we got power. We had the House and the Senate of the White House and didn't keep our promise. And then on the fiscal side, we got, you know, trillion dollar deficits. But there I defend President Trump a little bit because he puts out a budget with Mick Mulvaney that cuts. And then all the politicos and the hill and the roll calls, you know, call him mean, you know, he's a cutter. And then a few months later, Pelosi puts out her budget that's spending through the roof. And then they call him deficit Don, right? Like he's responsible for Pelosi's huge deficits.

So since I left, it's just a, it's an F. I mean, it's been all political, the impeachment, Russia, Russia Gate, Kavanaugh Gate, Ukraine, Gate. I mean, they haven't done a thing. That's just been pure partisan politics. So looking at the mess that you see, if you could pick one or two things that Congress should say, hey, we're going to tackle this. What would those be? Well, the first is getting our China policy straight right away because now you have this virus spreading. and this is an opportunity to spell out a new global order with some new rules of the game.

And Africa, for example, a lot of the sub-Saharan African countries have thought we don't have an option, right? China's offering them a billion-dollar dams and highway systems and infrastructure and whatever, and they're going along with it. But now that they see what's going on and they see China's probably not who we want to be partner with long run because of how they treat their people. and the news going forward is going to be fairly shocking with respect to how much China cares about its people where the answer is zero.

And so the world is watching, and it's the time for the U.S. to lead. So I'd put that at number one. And then after that, the financial picture and economic growth and doing another round of tax cuts and keeping the economy moving, the unemployment rate is, it's all-time low for every group there is.

Right? And that's the tax cuts got all-all-a-all-all-all-all-all-all-all-all-all-all-all- all that going and it's time to do another round to keep it going. Well, there's still a lot to do, but we are thankful for the good we see. We got our work cut out for us, though. We've been speaking with Dave Bratt. He is the dean of the Liberty University School of Business. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you so much for having me on. Always pleasure. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast brought to from the Robert H. Bruce Radio Studio at the Heritage Foundation. Please be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or Spotify, and please leave us a review or a rating on Apple Podcasts and give us any feedback. We'll see you again tomorrow.

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