The Daily Signal - Never Forget: A New York Firefighter Shares His 9/11 Stories

Episode Date: September 10, 2021

Sept. 11, 2001, is a date that looms large in the American psyche. For many of us, the horrific images on TV of burning and collapsing towers, civilians jumping to their deaths, and endless seas of rubble are forever etched in memory. But for Americans born after 9/11, it can be difficult to fully comprehend the impact of a horrific event they didn't witness. Niels Jorgensen is a retired New York City firefighter who helped dig through the debris at ground zero in search of the injured and missing. He is also the host of the "20 For 20" podcast, a show highlighting 20 heroic stories about 9/11 for the 20th anniversary of that horrible day. Jorgensen joins "The Daily Signal Podcast" to share his stories, as well as some ways that we can honor the victims of 9/11 and keep their memories alive. We also cover these stories: President Joe Biden requires all federal employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Some 200 non-Afghans, including Americans, fly out of Afghanistan on a Qatar Airways commercial flight, marking the first large-scale departure since the hasty U.S. withdrawal. Press secretary Jen Psaki defends Biden’s decision to ask former Trump administration officials to resign from advisory boards at military service academies. U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland announces that the Justice Department will go to court to challenge Texas' new pro-life law. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Get the yes you've been waiting for at Capital One.ca.ca. slash yes. Terms and conditions apply. This is the daily signal podcast for Friday, September 10th. I'm Virginia Allen. And I'm Doug Blair. Tomorrow marks the 20th anniversary of 9-11, one of the most horrific and tragic days in American history. As time marches on in 2001 begins to fade into history, it becomes even more essential that we hold on to the memories and stories of those we lost and the heroes who risk their lives. On today's show, we're joined by Nils Jorgensen, a retired New York City fire fighter and host of a new podcast dedicated to preserving the story of that tragic day. Nill shares his story with us as well as some ways that we can honor the victims of 9-11.

And don't forget, if you enjoy listening to this podcast, please be sure to leave us a review and a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. And now on to our top news. President Joe Biden is requiring all federal employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Biden signed an executive order late Thursday mandating the vaccination of all federal workers and contract employees who work for the federal government. Here's what Biden had to say per the White House. This summer we made progress through the combination of vaccine requirements and incentives as well as the FDA approval. Four million more people got their first shot in August than they did in July.

But we need to do more. This is not about freedom or personal choice. It's about protecting yourself and those around you. The people you work with, the people you care about, the people you love. My job as president is to protect all Americans. So tonight, I'm announcing that the Department of Labor is developing an emergency rule to require all employers with 100 or more employees. employees that together employ over 80 million workers to ensure their workforces are fully vaccinated

or show a negative test at least once a week. Some of the biggest companies are already requiring this. United Airlines, Disney, Tyson's Food, and even Fox News. The bottom line, we're going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated coworkers. We're going to reduce the spread of COVID-19 by increasing the share of the workforce that is vaccinated in businesses all across America. My plan will extend the vaccination requirements that I previously issued in the health care field. Already, I've announced, we'll be requiring vaccinations at all nursing homeowners who treat patients on Medicare and Medicaid because I have that federal authority. Tonight, I'm using that same. authority to expand that to cover those who work in hospitals, home health care facilities,

or other medical facilities, a total of 17 million health care workers. If you're seeking care at a health facility, you should be able to know that the people treating you are vaccinated, simple, straightforward, period. Next, I will sign an executive order that will now require all executive branch, federal employees to be vaccinated, all. And I've signed another executive order that will require federal contractors to do the same. If you want to work with the federal government and do business of this, get vaccinated. Previously, Biden gave federal workers the choice of either being vaccinated or tested on a regular basis. Now, federal workers have no testing option. The president's vaccine

mandate for federal employees comes as the White House moves to implement a new six-prong plan to fight COVID-19. The six elements include vaccinating unvaccinated Americans, giving booster shots to the vaccinated, keeping schools open, more COVID-19 testing and mass requirements, furthering the economic recovery and improving care for individuals with COVID-19. 200 non-Afghan citizens, including some Americans, flew out of Afghanistan on Thursday on a Qatar Airways commercial flight to Doha, marking the first large-scale departure since U.S. and Allied forces formally left the country. In addition to the unspecified number of Americans, passport holders from the U.K., Italy, the Netherlands, Ukraine, Canada, and Germany were also permitted to leave, according to the Washington Post. The flight comes as the U.S. attempts to negotiate with the interim Taliban government for safe passage for Americans stranded in Afghanistan.

The Taliban has insisted it would allow foreigners to leave as long as they present proper documentation, such as a passport. Also Thursday, former Afghan President Ashraf Ghani issued a statement in English on his Twitter account explaining why he fled the country weeks ago. In the public statement, Ghani said, I left at the urging of the palace security who advised me that to remember, Maine risks setting off the same horrific street-to-street fighting the city had suffered during the Civil War of the 1990s. Leaving Kabul was the most difficult decision of my life, but I believed

it was the only way to keep the gun silent and save Kabul and her six million citizens. Ghani is currently in the United Arab Emirates. After the White House asked several former Trump administration officials to resign from advisory boards and military service academies, press secretary Jen Saki is defending. President Biden's decision. Biden asked as many as 18 Trump appointees to step down from advisory boards for the Air Force Academy, Military Academy, and Naval Academy. These are three-year appointments that often span over two presidential administrations. Among those the President asked to resign are former White House counselor Kellyanne Conway, former Office of Management

and Budget Director Russ Vote, and former White House Press Secretary Sean Spice Saucy said on CNN Thursday morning that the president's decision was made based on qualifications and not personal. This really goes back to what every president's right is, which is to appoint individuals they choose because they're aligned with their values, because they're aligned with the qualifications that they deem for any of these positions and any of these boards. And that's what is taking place here. It's not personal.

I will say that there are some people, of course, on these boards who have supported or stood by silently, well, their former boss supported an insurrection. That's not really okay with us either, but you're right. There's a span of individuals on these boards. It's really not more complicated than the president, his cabinet and team wanting to be able to appoint a fresh layer of people. Those asked to step down also include former national security advisor, H.R. McMaster, and Trump campaign advisor, Megan Mobs, an Afghan war veteran. U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland announced Thursday that the Justice Department will go to court to challenge the new Texas pro-life law. The Texas law bans abortions at the point a fetal heartbeat can be detected, which is normally around six weeks.

An attempt by abortion clinics to halt the law was blocked by a 5-4 Supreme Court decision. Last week, President Biden criticized the Supreme Court's decision as an unprecedented assault on a woman's constitutional rights and vowed an immediate response. On Monday, the Attorney General had expressed his intention to fight the law in court. In his statement then, Garland said, the department will provide support from federal law enforcement when an abortion clinic or reproductive health center is under attack. Per CNN, many abortion clinics across Texas have stopped performing the procedure after six weeks or have closed as a result of the law. Now stay tuned for my conversation with Nils Jorgensen, a former New York City firefighter who was there on 9-11.

Virginia Allen here. want to tell you about the most popular resource on the Heritage Foundation website, the guide to the Constitution. More than 100 scholars have contributed to create a unique line-by-line analysis of our Constitution. The guide is intended to provide a brief and accurate explanation of each clause of the Constitution as envisioned by the framers and as applied in contemporary law. There has never been a more important time to have an understanding of our founding document. So if you want to learn more about the Constitution, go ahead and visit heritage.org slash constitution or simply search for Heritage Guide to the Constitution. Our guest today is Nils Jorgensen, a former New York City

firefighter of 21 years and a 9-11 survivor, as well as host of the 20-for-20 podcast, a show highlighting 20-heroic stories about 9-11 for the 20th anniversary of the tragedy. Nils, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, sir. I appreciate the invite, and thanks for having me here. Good. So before we get into your work on 9-11 and the podcast, I want to talk about something a little bit more interesting that I learned about you while I was doing some research. You've had some acting roles. You've appeared throughout the seven-year run of FX series Rescue Me, as well as an episode of CBS's Elementary. And you were a firefighter, I believe, in both those episodes. So how did you get into acting? Yes, and actually got a chance that curb you enthusiasm also one episode with Bill Buckner, the late baseball player, Bill Buckner. It was a comedy gag, but strange enough, sir, I just filled in for someone one day.

They needed a few guys to work as background actors on a pilot, and it was really my first time on a stage, and I didn't know what to do. I was told you just show up, bring your fire gear, and it turned out the pilot was Dennis Leary's project for a show called Rescue Me, and, you know, based upon a 9-11 firefighter, was haunted by ghosts and whatnot, and it showed, you know, a lot of good things, a lot of bad things. And long story, I was a fire truck ladder chauffeur, as we call it, in a ladder company 114 for many years. And I had just recently at that point promoted up to lieutenant. And they needed someone who drove fire trucks who also had a commercial driver's license because on the outside of a film set, the truck is now considered a commercial vehicle. And I was the only guy out of the crew of 12 firefighters who had the license. So they picked me to drive.

And it just evolved. Dennis at one point said, look, you look like a guy behind the wheel, the steering wheel with a mustache. And you don't say anything. We can't have you be a mute all the time. So we just asked if I would feel comfortable with a couple of little speaking parts. And it's just evolved from there. And it was, as I tell people, it was the coolest side job I've ever had my life. One of my best buddies, big Bobby Cameron, was the guy who drove the other truck, the engine.

And at times, they'd ask us to come down the street. You know, that was closed at 50 miles an hour and come as close as we could to the cameras and come to a quick stop. And we would just look at each other. Bob and I, like school kids going, can't believe they're paying us to do this. So, yeah, it was seven years of a lot of laughs. A lot of the guys that I work with on a daily basis in the firehouse actually. then we would just finish our 24-hour shift and go to the film set and have a blast. So Dennis is a wonderful guy.

The other gentleman who became good friends with his Robert John Burke, the actor, as we call him lovingly Bobby, who's also a volunteer firefighter. And those two gentlemen, they just do a tremendous amount for people in need. Bobby's very involved with Wounded Warriors, and he's an active volunteer firefighter. has his great Leary Firefighters Foundation that has done tremendous, tremendous work, donated millions upon millions of dollars to enhance fire department training. He built a flashover simulator at the New York City Fire Academy, which simulates really bad fire conditions and high-rise buildings.

And he helped rebuild the New Orleans Fire Department after Hurricane Katrina. and I was actually down there with Bobby Burke and his son and an actress Callie Thorne who was also on the show and we spent a week with basically a bunch of folks just rebuilding these firehouses that were destroyed. So it really opened up a different opportunity of life for me and it was just a truly enjoyable seven years, like every minute of it. That's wonderful. I'm really glad to hear that you had that experience to be able to do that. So I would like to move on now to the big theme, which is 9-11. Yes. Your experience with 9-11, I was reading, you were responsible for helping to search through some of the piles of rubble and debris in hopes of finding survivors.

Yes. If it's all right with you, what was the atmosphere like during the initial days of the rescue efforts? It was very chaotic. It was very somber. It was really hard to fathom that it was reality. I was off duty that morning. I was driving an oil truck, which was one of my moonlight at the time. And, you know, I had time.

I drove three different trucks, a fire truck, an oil truck, and a boar's head delivery truck for the boarshead company. And my little daughter that morning said, Daddy, which truck are you on today? She said, the fire truck, the oil truck, or the boarshead truck. I said, no, sweetie, I'm doing oil. She said, okay, you'll be safe. because she related the danger to being on the fire department. My father and my wife's father were both New York City firefighters as well,

and my daughter at the time was four and a half, and she understood the concept, the danger. So anyway, long story, I was driving the oil truck on the north end of Staten Island, which overlooks the harbor. Plains struck the tower. I realized something was wrong, but we don't normally rush into events when we're off duty unless we're mandated by a recall,

which means all off-duty police fire EMS are obligated to go to their commands and await further orders for deployment. So the second plane hit, then I realized, okay, this is terrorism. I knew right away. I raced into my firehouse, checked in with command. Command said once there's 12 off-duty members, sign into the book, you know, the book being that we logged in, they know we're there. God forbid we're lost. They know who to look for. We lieutenant took command off duty and an off duty lieutenant.

We commandeered a city bus and the bus driver drove us over the Brooklyn Bridge. And just prior to getting over the bridge, the second tower had come down. The first one had collapsed while we were in the firehouse, getting up, getting our equipment together and mustering up. And our ladder company, 114, had been dispatched. They were gone. The firehouse was empty and they were there. and the on-duty lieutenant Dennis Oberg. We heard him on the radio check in,

and he just basically our nickname is Talley Ho, Colorado 114. It comes from an old airborne ranger who jumped Normandy, Jack Carroll, and when he came back from the war, we first got radios in the 40s on the trucks, and he refused to say 10-4 when they'd respond. He'd say 114, Tally-ho.

And to this day, it still sticks. So Dennis, we heard him check in, and they said 1.14, respond to the command post-Albany and West, and he said, 1-14, Talley Hall. And so we knew our guys were there. And after the both buildings came down, we assumed that Dennis and the crew were gone. And by the grace of God, Dennis had seen something wrong.

He knew. He just looked up. He saw the building start to disintegrate, and he had the men turn around and run. And they sprinted, and they dove under a truck. and anyone 30 to 40 feet behind them was killed, was in the pile. And unfortunately, his rookie son, or as we call Proby, was assigned to Ladder Company 105. And Dennis Jr. was life was taken that morning.

And the strange irony with that is there was a gentleman, Henry Miller, who's the senior man in 105. And the senior man looks out for the new guy. He keeps him under his wing, keeps him safe. and I had the privilege of working in Lata 105 is my first command. And in 1993, at the first bombing, I was under the guidance of Henry Miller. He was my senior man. I was his probie. And I had only three years on the job at the time.

And I remember Henry looking around, it was hours later, it was that night. And he said, you know, kid, they didn't do this right. They blew it up in the middle. And he said if they did it in a corner, they would have dropped the building. down to Chinatown a half mile away. And he said, but they'll be back, and they'll do it right next time. And the strange part about it is Henry was right, prophesied it. And he was there that morning to protect Dennis and they died together.

Yeah, so anyway, my life long, my childhood best friend, John Shaw, was an engine company 201, and he was on shift. And he was in a close proximity to Latter 105, and John was killed. So basically we got in, we got off the bridge. We waited deployment orders. It was the scenic chaos, and chiefs were trying to basically get second and third waves of personnel to go in and start searching in grids. So it was a few hours before everything got orderly. We spent quite a few hours.

Seven World Trade Center, the other building had come down then into that process, a couple hours after the first couple towers. And so we searched, and we were primarily in the area of seven. We were searching the post office, which had reports of people trapped inside, and there was no one there. And then we were pulled off to the main pile, as we called it, and we were digging through the night trying to rescue some trapped Port Authority police officers. The Port Authority police officers were the security force.

force for the airport. They are the security force for the airports, the World Trade Center, any ports in New York City, and the past rail system, which comes in and out of New Jersey to New York, and they lost 37 police officers that morning. And by the grace of God, two of their officers were retrieved alive. And then NYPD in the course of the day, lost 23 of their officers. It was also close to a dozen medics, I believe two or three New York. state court officers, a couple federal agents, and 343 New York City firefighters ended up dying. And at about 4 o'clock, next morning, we were literally unable to breathe anymore. Our eyes were just caked with cement, glass, concrete dust, and we just couldn't breathe.

So our lieutenant decided to bring us for medical aid and go back to the firehouse cleanup and come back a few hours later to start digging again. And as we got dropped off, the city bus took us back through the battery tunnel to get to our firehouse, and he couldn't proceed down certain streets, so we had to walk up half a mile to our command up a hill. And there was a dozen of us,

and as we were walking back, none of us could breathe, and it felt like we swallowed a box of razor blades. Just felt like you were burning from the roof, your mouth down into your gut. And one of the old firemen said, we're all dead. And I said, no, no, we're not. We're alive.

He goes, no, kids, you don't get it. He said, this stuff is poison. We're all dead men. And strange enough, 20 years later, I believe we just had the ninth guy out of those first 20 that responded have cancer. And one of my dear friends has had five bouts of cancer, three. three bouts of bladder cancer, two bouts of serious leukemia. Another gentleman had a serious thyroid cancer,

and then a large, rare tumor wrapped around his heart, and he's, thanked the Lord's still going, and multiple guys with prostate cancer, young men, a lot of these rare cancers that are popping up, that, you know, just not normally seen statistically in men so young. And we went back, and we dug for a three or four, straight days, just, you know, eating, resting, sleeping, doing whatever we could at the site. And just, you know, we wanted to have a continual force of guys because the first four days,

we figured we had chances of pulling people out alive. And then it became obvious after about that fourth day that there was no one else alive. And then it became a recovery mission. And then our focus was to bring home remains so these families could respectfully bury and just, just basically put their love on the rest. And it became very frustrating because we weren't finding fully intact human beings most of the time. I believe out of the 2,900 souls that we lost, 2,97 souls, there was approximately 293 that were found intact or somewhat intact. and unfortunately the rest of the folks that were found were just unidentifiable by vision

and out of all those people who died that only half of them were actually ever recovered the rest of them were just disintegrated unfortunately in the physics and energy involved with the collapse which is a massive massive amount of everything was pulverized into dust and we just kept the process going, and then the recovery effort went on for months until the final closing of the site on, I believe, May 30th of 02. And my lieutenant, Dennis, he spent every single day

from September 11th on searching for his son and with another group of fathers who were firefighters either active or retired, who had lost sons. And Captain Vigiano, who since passed over 9-11 cancer, he was searching for his two sons, one an emergency service police officer and the other one, a firefighter, and they both died. And then that's pretty much, you know, just went on for months to recovery. There were certain guys that were assigned permanent duty assignments at the site to dig every day for 30-day rotations.

And then the fire trucks and the firehouses still had to be staffed as a normal. response as a normal shift. I took an assignment down in southern Manhattan at the South Street Firehouse Engine 4, Ladder 15. They needed senior firefighters to redeploy and basically fill in these houses that were literally decimated by that day. South Street was 14, 14 firefighters on duty shift. They were all killed.

And so I was actually one. working and responding in and around the trade center on a daily basis to, you know, routine fires and calls. And I remember there was a fire earlier on in the Deutsche Bank. There was a fatal fire, unfortunately, a few years later where a couple firefighters actually died and what was the remains of the Deutsche Bank. But I think in November of 2001, we fought a working fire on the 12th floor of the Deutsche Bank. And I just remember as the smoke lifted looking down, and all of the guys were just digging as if it was just another day.

As we were fighting a fire, for us it was just another day. And it was just a very strange scene, very strange irony of it. But that's it, sir. It was just, unfortunately, it was a huge recovery site for many, many months. And we did our best to bring everyone home, as we would say. but we're only able to bring half of them home for their families. And that's kind of hard for us to do because we like to give families closure. We used to bring in home a body.

Sometimes it may be burned or battered or broken, but normally it's a whole body so the family can properly bury them. And unfortunately, that didn't happen most of the time. I'm dumbstruck. I just can't even think about how horrific that would be. But one of the things that strikes me is so sort of a light in the darkness is that you did go and do it over and over and over as you went back and you helped dig people out. And you, you know, even when you recognized it was, you know, a recovery mission and not necessarily to find survivors, you still went and did your duty. And I can't, I can't believe that you did that.

It's just, it's so incredible to me. One of the things I'm wondering about is how do you find the motivation and the courage to continue doing that mission after you recognized what was happening after you had realized like the likelihood of finding somebody still alive would be very low? But how do you still go back and how do you find the inner strength to go on and continue? Well, I think it's the one thing unique to, as we call, some people call it the warrior class or, you know, the warrior suburb. culture or, I mean, I would never put us in the same level of, you know, soldiers and Marines and sailors and airmen in combat. But there's such a tight bond. I've had the honor of serving the United States Army, and I was a New York City police officer. I worked as a New York City EMT for city EMS prior to it being now part of the fire department. And then I had the privilege of being a

firefighter for almost 22 years. And the one thing I've learned about all of those organizations, those communities, military and first responder world, and, you know, my daughter's an emergency room nurse and a nurse paramedic. There's such a common bond between all of us. There's such a loyalty and respect and love for each other and a love for humanity. And what people don't realize is being a responder is a very difficult, stressful job, especially for police officer, because there's life and death decisions that have to be made immediately. And there's outcomes. There's and sometimes they're bad outcomes. But responders in military have such a respect for life and dignity,

and we hold it to such a high level that we took it as an honor to be the people that were bringing home the remains for these folks that were left behind their survivors to give them that dignity and that closure, because none of us wants to have a loved one and never be able to give them their final rest. So we took it upon ourselves as a high responsibility to finish that job. Our first job was to rescue who we could. And when we realized that that was not possible anymore, that that was not a viable option, now we switched gears and said, okay, suck it up.

We need to bring everybody home. And that's what kept people going. And I didn't dig to the level of some guys. Some guys were there tremendous. I mean, I tried to put in as many hours as I could. But then in between, I was still assigned to the fire truck. And then you were going from the fire truck to a memorial. And then back from a memorial to another ship.

And I was gone for weeks at a time from my family. But they understood. And they respected my family, understood, you know, my dad being a fireman for 34 years. And, you know, my father's a guy who went to work. He had an end stage cancer at one point. as a 38-year-old fireman and went to work on chemo and took a test drug at the time in 1978 and still alive. He's 82.

And he responded. He deployed to help and he was retired. And yeah, we just take it so serious. It's such an honor to serve in those positions. And you know, what really just, I guess just gets my goal sometimes is you have young, brand new military folks that are making $21,000 a year. and they don't care. They're putting it all on the line.

Their life on the line. You look at those young souls that were just lost last week, was 13 beautiful souls. They were kids. They're 20 years old. But they get it. We just have this understanding. This is what we do.

We love what we do. Most of us would do it for free. You don't want to tell the politicians that because they would have us do it for free. But, you know, I mean, I would have ridden that fire truck. If you said to me, they made me retire, I have leukemia. It's technically incurable, but I'm in full remission, and I am blessed, and I'm not going to complain. But if you said to me today, you can go back on your truck tonight, I would run, I would sprint to that firehouse. And I'm in Tennessee right now, so that would be a 950-mile sprint to New York City.

but I would try my best to sprint the whole way because I loved every minute of riding on that truck. And I loved every minute riding in that police car and that ambulance and that Army Humphi, I wish I could go back and do all of them again. And every person who's had that title would say the same exact thing. They teach you to do everything except for retire

when you're in the military and the first responder world. They don't teach you how to retire and you never figure it out. I think that shows a very distinct sense of character that, you know, you would be willing to put it all on the line again and just go out and still do it. I think a lot of people could take something from that. And I really thank you for the service that you did, both as a fireman as someone in the military and as a police officer. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Of course. You had mentioned that a lot of the men who went and did these rescue efforts then came out of it with health issues. They would come out of it with lung and heart and cancer issues. You, unfortunately, as you mentioned, are one of those people that came out with a health problem. So you were diagnosed in 2011 with a very rare form of cancer called hairy cell leukemia. was connected to the work that you had done at Ground Zero. But when you fought back against the cancer, as you mentioned, you're in remission, which is, thank God, you went through a really radical treatment program where you took 2.5 years of chemo drugs in a week. What was this entire experience like?

And have you talked with any other 9-11 responders who are going or went through something similar? As strange as it sounds, I'm the lucky guy when it comes to the cancer because the treatment was brutal. I was praying to die. It was that strong and that vicious. And they said to me, if you live through the first two nights of the seven, you're in a good spot because, you know, I had this great nurse, Mike Nunes, who I still want to meet and thank. He was my angel on earth, my lifeline. And there was a few other nurses that were so wonderful, this lady Altegraccia and many others. And unfortunately, the chemo caused my memory back then to fade for a little while.

And so many names have sort of faded. But it was so brutal that I was praying to die. And then when I got through it, I realized now I was praying to live. Because I said, wow, I think I might be able to get ahead of this. And I have some life to live. But I'm going to lie that the first year and a half after it, I was physically battered and beaten up. And I was in a mentally bad place. I was feeling sorry for myself.

And the strangest part about it is I was so sad about having to retire. They made me retire. And I begged the doctor, please do not do this to me. This is my priesthood. This is what I do. Besides my family, this is what I exist for. And they said, we're sorry. You can't because you're a liability at that point.

Right now if you relax or something happens, they're responsible. But really what it is is the subtext is. They don't want to have to pay you while you're home sick on treatments or this and that because now they have to pay another guy in overtime to fill your spot. So it comes down to dollars and cents, right? That's unfortunately the reality. And what would happen is I start getting other calls from other guys, some that I knew and loved and some I didn't.

I loved them because they were part of my department, but I didn't have a chance of ever knowing them or working with them. And it was the common theme was the fear. We were so scared because now you're a young, guy. I was 42 when I got sick. I'm laying there looking up at my three little kids going, oh my God. They didn't even know what was wrong. I didn't tell them. They just thought I was having a problem, you know, with my blood. And the fear that everybody shares is so overwhelming. And that's the worst part of cancer. Every person I've spoken to in and out of the fire department, police

department, military, you know, anyone that's had cancer will say it's the fear. I mean, my dad went for treatments for four and a half years, every two weeks for four and a half years. And this guy just, he would be so sick for days after it. And he used to say, I just used to pretend I was in a battle. I would lay there thinking there was just army tanks driving through my body, shooting at the cancer, blowing it up. And I said, what was the worst part? He said, the fear.

And every person I've asked of the same thing, the fear. One of the things that I do want to hit on before we finish up here is your podcast. So you are the host of the 20 for 20 podcast, which as we mentioned at the top is a podcast by Ironlight Labs that highlights 20 heroic stories about 9-11 for the 20th anniversary of 9-11. One of the things that you are very clear about as a goal for this podcast is that we seem to be in danger of letting 9-11 fade away. from our cultural memory. There are kids today who are going to college, whose only experience with 9-11 is through stories, through textbooks, through, you know, secondhand accounts. There are a lot more people who are going through the education system nowadays who don't know what happened on that day. I was very young when it happened, and my memories of it

are fading away as well. Would you be able to go into some detail about what the podcast is what you want from it, and then as a sort of final note, what you think would be the best way for us to teach and memorialize and make sure that 9-11 stays within the cultural memory? Yes. I recently had an experience of a young lady. I was on a plane with my family, and she saw my firefighter baseball cap that I probably wear.

And she asked me if I was a firefighter. I said, I used to be, and she said, well, why? I said, I'm sick from 9-11. And she said, well, what was really 9-11? Wasn't that something with a plane that hit a building? And she was a very intelligent young lady, but she had no knowledge of it. And unfortunately, it's because her school didn't teach her anything about it. And through my research, I find that there is no curriculum.

They are not teaching 9-11, anything about it. When I was 12 years old, I could tell you everything about Pearl Harbor because I was being taught about it. And that's the sad part about it is it's being allowed to, fade away. And I'm not sure exactly why. If it's for politics or political correctness, I don't know. But it's a shame because there's people out there right now that are suffering, that are hurting, that are feeling that they wasted their time. And no one, not that they will want to be recognized and be hugged and backslapped, but we just want to record to state that great people gave everything

in the process of trying to rescue people and recover the remains of people who died. That's all they want is just that, to go down in history. So we're hoping with this project to get the word out there with people that will resonate and say, hey, listen to these stories of these brave people that have lost loved ones, or other ones who put it all on the line. You know, it's a cross-section, a melting pot of America, of folks who are interviewing, that sacrificed a lot that day and the years following it. I mean, we have Frank Siller from the Tunnel to Towers Foundation, which basically provides homes for Gold Star families, smart homes for horribly injured service members and first responders. And any first responder killed in a line of duty or military, they'll cover the family's mortgage.

or if they don't have a house at that point, they'll build them a house. Frank's brother Stephen was a firefighter who ran through the battery tunnel. He drove his pickup truck to the foot of it. It was blocked. He grabbed his fire gear, and he ran two and a half miles to the towers to try to meet up with his fire company, squad company one. He died. He had five children and a wife. He didn't have to go there.

He was off duty. He did. Then we have another gentleman, Mack Hanna, who is an Egyptian immigrant. and who's now dedicated his life to becoming a Coptic priest in St. Mary's Parish in New Jersey. And this man was an engineer in the building and helped rescue dozens of people and then physically assisted an elderly man down 80 flights of stairs and then carried him for the last bunch of flights and ran across the West Side Highway. And he was the last known survivor to leave the tower at, you know,

as he literally ran out with this gentleman on his back, they were the last known survivors to weave the North Tower. It fell down two or three minutes after he just got out of there. Another gentleman Al Braco, who is a devout Christian, who was on the 104th floor of Tanner Fitzgerald. They lost 658 employees that died that day, their whole workforce of that office. And Al literally got 50th.

of them together in a circle and they prayed and he said, I'm going to go meet Jesus today. Is anyone coming with me? Because he realized that there was no hope of them being rescued. So he tried to save their souls and find salvation in the fact that they were going to die. I mean, these heroes, just there's many, many more that we're going to interview that we have. And just the stories are so powerful. I'm so humbled to be in their presence. And I just think to myself, where did they find the courage to do these acts?

And a lot of them weren't even being paid. That's the strange part about it. They had no obligation. So what we're hoping to do, sir, is we're just hoping to get these stories out there. There's no angle. There's no politics. It's straight down the middle, fastball, as an old baseball guy would say. And we're just trying to say to people, please don't forget.

Please be kind. please be generous, donate to Tunnel to Towers to the Feel Good Foundation, you know, the Fire Family Transport Foundation, which literally brings sick responders back and forth to their cancer treatments and to their surgeries. And, you know, it's just, there's just some good people out there still 20 years later.

Don't forget them. Try to help them. And most of all, we just want to spread a message of kindness and love. I mean, we need it so bad right now in our country. They're so fractured. We're so divided. What I want to obtain is the feeling on 9-12-01.

As sad as that day was, it was a happy day. Because when you looked up and down for a mile on the west side highway, leading down to the towers, to the site, to the wreckage, there was people hugging and crying and flying the American flag and signs of encouragement for cops, for firefighters, for medics, and for military, for nurses, there was this unity that was so, it was just so uplifting and so inspiring to us. I hope that your mission.

I really hope that your podcast can help. And I sincerely think that stories are the best way to bring people together. So with that, that was Nils Jorgensen, a former New York City firefighter of 21 years and a 9-11 as well as host of the 20-for-20 podcast, a show highlighting 20-heroic stories about 9-11 for the 20th anniversary of the tragedy. Nels, thank you so much for your service. Thank you so much for your story. And thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, sir. I appreciate the time and God bless you and God bless America. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to the Daily Signal podcast. You can find the Daily Signal podcast on Google Play, Apple Podcast, Spotify,

and IHeart Radio. Please be sure to leave us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Thanks again for listening. Be sure to listen tomorrow morning for a special bonus episode with Tim Brown, another New York City firefighter who shares his story of 9-11. And Rob and I will be back with you on Monday. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. It is executive produced by Virginia Allen and Kate Trinko, sound designed by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney, and John Pop. For more information, please visitdailySignal.com.