The Daily Signal - Rep. Mark Harris on ACLU Pro-Illegal Immigrant PR Campaign

Episode Date: January 11, 2025

The American Civil Liberties Union has launched a publicity campaign aimed at pushing back on President Donald Trump’s pledge to deport illegal aliens. But pastor and Congressman Mark Harris, R-N.C., says the ACLU is “missing the point that not all of these folks that are coming are asylum seekers.”    “If you really were compassionate and really believed in the asylum program, you would not just be trying to push this Biden administration's process along the way, because what you do is you mess it up for those who have real need, and you mess it up for those that are seeking asylum in this country,” Harris said.    Trump has pledged to deport illegal aliens, beginning first with criminals and those who pose a threat to the country, such as members of the Venezuelan prison gang Tren de Aragua, which now operates in over a dozen states across the U.S., including North Carolina, the state Harris represents.    Voters “very much believe that we've got to get back to law and order,” Harris said, adding that he thinks Trump was given a “mandate” in the 2024 election to secure the border.    Harris, a newly sworn in member of Congress, joins “The Daily Signal Podcast” to explain why he chose to get involved in politics and to discuss the need for secure borders and enforcement of immigration law.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk, business. From the stories of real Americans to in-depth policy conversations, we are going beyond the headlines to discuss the issues and events that have and are shaping this nation. Welcome to the Daily Signal podcast weekend edition. I'm Virginia Allen, your host today. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back with today's conversation. Pro-life, pro-women conservative and feminist? That's right. We're problematic women. The radical left does not know what to do with strong independent women who believe in traditional values and love America. So you might say we're problematic to the left narrative of what a woman should be. Here on problematic women, we sort through the news to find the stories that you care about.

Join Problematic Women on the Daily Signals YouTube or Rumble every Wednesday or catch the show wherever you get your podcast on Thursday morning. And be sure to follow Problematic Women on Instagram. From that first coffee of the day to dropping off your dry cleaning on the way. From stepping onto the subway to opening your doors to your first customer of the day. We're here to power you along the way. Maneris, powering Canadian commerce. Visit us at manorris.com slash commerce. Well, I am so honored today to welcome to the DailySignal podcast for the very first time

Congressman Mark Harris of North Carolina. Congressman, thanks for being with us today. so much for having me. It's really an honor and privilege to be here. Well, you are no stranger necessarily to Capitol Hill because you worked for the Family Research Council and you have a passion for bringing about change in politics, but you have just been elected, well, elected, and then sworn in as a member of Congress here in Washington, D.C. I would love to hear from you why you chose, first off to run. Running for Congress is not for the feign of heart. And certainly being in Congress is really not for the faint of heart. What drew you to say, I actually need to run

for public office in my state? Well, you know, a lot of it kind of goes back to probably 2011, 2011, 2012. I was serving as pastor of First Baptist Church, Charlotte. I was about to be elected as president of the North Carolina Baptist State Convention, which is a network of over 4,200 churches across North Carolina. When a lady, by the name of Tammy Fitzgerald, made an appointment and came to visit with me, and Tammy leads a ministry called North Carolina Values Coalition in North Carolina. And she came and sat down with me and explained to me about a bill that was a marriage amendment that was going to make that a constitutional amendment that marriage would be defined as between a man and a woman. And this was in late 2011. And the legislature had just made a decision

to put it on the ballot. So she came, she met with me. She shared this with me. And she said, Mark, you're about to be elected president of the North Carolina Baptist Convention. And she said, quite honestly, the Obama administration and all of these others are going to be spending an awful lot of money to try to stop this in North Carolina. And if we don't have a great grassroots organization that's ready to do it, and she said with your role and your leadership, I think it's critical. And, you know, that was kind of the first time anybody had enlisted me to step into that role. And to be honest, you know, I told her I would pray about it. I would get back with her. Later that afternoon, just personally, I was reading through preparing for a Wednesday night Bible study I was going to be doing in the book of Nehemiah of all places.

And I ran across a passage there in chapter 2, verse 17 and 18 that had a vast impact on me. So as a result of that, I became one of the founding members of the vote for marriage, NC, traveled around the state in late 2011 and 2012 leading up to that vote in May of 2012. And through that process met Tony Perkins. And we became fast friends. And he had invited me to come and speak at a Watchman on the Wall program they did for about 500 pastors that had come in. And I was only invited, I was invited to speak for 30 minutes at a luncheon. But I was there for three days. And I often tell folks, those three days impacted my life.

I came away no longer comfortable just operating. operating within the ivory tower. I came away understanding the responsibility of pastors and clergy to be strong voices. I've learned about the role that clergy played in the Revolutionary War, probably things that may have been taught to me when I was younger. I like to think they were, and maybe I wouldn't pay an attention that day. Fun fact that a lot of folks don't realize that the gunpowder during the Revolutionary War most of the time was stashed in the churches, in the colonies. And those things just left me. with a sense of call I felt like as I got back home and tried to process all of that, that

I needed to be engaged. And so I got engaged. I ran for office. I came up short in my first run. Then I ran for Congress. Then I lost by 134 votes in that first run for Congress. And then there's just a whole series of things that took place. But by the grace of God, when Dan Bishop, who has been in this seat, just a stall of the

member of Congress when Dan called me last summer and told me he was going to run for Attorney General. And his words to me, if you still have the stomach for this, he said, I think you would make a great candidate. And my wife and I prayed about it. And by the grace of God, we got through a very tough primary, won the general election, nearly 60 percent. And here we are. Here we are. Wow. We are. Well, it's been just over a week, about a week, since you officially became a member of Congress. And on Tuesday, you had the opportunity to vote for your very first piece of federal legislation in the House. And that was a vote on the Lake and Riley Act, of course, named after the late nursing student who was murdered by an illegal alien in Georgia.

Right. And yourself, all GOP members, and there were 48 Democrats as well that chose to vote for that piece of legislation. but there were also 159, almost 160 Democrats who chose to vote against it. Immigration has been obviously a very contentious issue. This bill is pretty straightforward because it says that ICE should arrest and detain illegal aliens who have been charged with theft. And it also gives states the authority to sue federal officials who are not following immigration law. So pretty basic.

Sure. Why do you think, though, that there's so. still so much contention around an issue that is something like this, a bill that is quite straightforward. Why would so many Democrats still choose to vote against it, do you think? Well, you know, I kind of gave up a while ago trying to get inside the head of those that take votes such as that. But I don't understand it. I think those of us who understand the importance of law and order that understand the importance that if you don't have a secure border, you don't have a country. I mean, if we just open up our borders for folks to come and go at will,

we're in a serious, serious place. So I did have the privilege. In fact, that bill provided me the opportunity. I'm on the Judiciary Committee, and they had invited me to actually speak on that bill. So I had an opportunity to do my first floor speech during the debate. And one of the points that I made there is this is a situation where we have an opportunity as a 119th Congress to not depend on whether or not there is a Republican in the White House in order to do the right thing. This administration has thrown open our borders. It is an extremely dangerous situation. I feel like codifying, putting this law in place is going to help us deal with the fact that,

I mean, if you just look at the 55,000 criminals that have been. been caught at the border. And if you look at 21, 22, 23, and 24, you look at over 10,000 in 21, over 12,000 in 22, over 15,000 in 23, and over 17,000 in 24 actually are real numbers of criminals that were detained at the border. That doesn't count the 1.8 million of getaways that we didn't even catch or could identify. And these are folks that, you know, they're not, you know, they always try to use the asylum stories to try to say that this is an issue that we need to be more compassionate. This is an issue of law and order. I feel like I came to Washington because I kind of see the big picture.

And I think it's important that we start looking at the big picture. You can always find stories here or there on either side to back up the point that you're trying to make. However, when we look at the big picture of border security and what a national security issue that is, we've got to be consistent. Consistency. We need more of that on Capitol Hill on all issues. Those are the three words, honestly, that when God moved in my heart to run, is I recognize that what was lacking in leadership in our nation was that we have people of character, consistency, and courage. And I prayed many times, quite honestly, Lord, if you're going to place me there, I want you to make me that man. I want you to make me a man of character, consistency, and courage

and live that out in the time that I serve. Really powerful prayer to pray. I think it's interesting, both given obviously your passion for these issues, for law and order, but also given your experience and your history as a pastor. And often around this topic of illegal immigration, we kind of to hear the sob story and, you know, it's an argument that's made of for the sake of really being kind to people, we should allow them to stay in the United States. And we've actually just seen that the ACLU, very leftist legal group, has essentially launched this PR campaign to tell stories of illegal aliens, really heartbreaking stories to say they need to be allowed to stay. Obviously, we have an incoming president who has said he will launch mass deportation, starting from

first with those criminals, but then, you know, who knows from there. What is your response to those who would kind of make that argument of, it's the compassionate thing to allow many of these individuals to stay who maybe did just come here because they want a better life? Well, one of the points that you touched on earlier when you look at the Trindey-Iragua gangs and the violence that is associated with them, President Trump made very clear that that is where we're starting. He's going after the criminals, the violent criminals, and making sure that they are deported.

You know, I think when I hear this whole campaign that ACLU wants to launch to tell a story here, a story there, I think they're missing the point that not all of these folks that are coming are asylum seekers. And if you really were compassionate and really believed in the asylum process, program, you would not just be trying to push this Biden administration's process along the way, because what you do is you mess it up for those who have real need, and you mess it up for those that are seeking asylum in this country. So, in fact, there's record of folks that were part of this gang being granted asylum. I think a Washington Times story actually talked about that.

And so, again, I think we have to look at the big picture. And if we can get it right, get the border sealed and correct the course that we're on, that we can have folks that genuinely need asylum. President Trump, it believes in legal immigration. He has always said that. I believe in legal immigration. I think we've got to get back to the basics of that. And the chaos that's been created by this administration has left us in a place where we've got to get the current chaos. under control and then be able to move in the process that can further legal immigration, quite frankly.

Well, in North Carolina has been one of those states, even though it's not a border state, that has been affected by some of that chaos. We know that it is one of at least 16 states where the Venezuelan prison gang, Trenda, does have a presence. As you talk to people in your state about that, what are they saying? Well, I think there's no question that the voters in this nation made a clear statement on November 5th. I think that they believe, I mean, there was no secret. This was the number one issue that was discussed in the campaign. I mean, we can talk about economic issues. We can talk about all these issues.

But our national security and what has gone on at the border just has carried the day. And I think it carried the day. Look at this last election. Record number of Hispanics supporting President Trump. Trump, record number of African-Americans supporting President Trump. We made inroads across this country with people that Republicans have not always done well with. And I think a lot of it was his agenda. And I kept stressing throughout the campaign that one of the themes that we built throughout 2016 to 2020 were promises made, promises kept. I think folks understood that Donald Trump is a man

who wants to fulfill the promises he's made. And so when I look in my district, when I hear from folks in my district, they very much believe that we've got to get back to law and order. And they very much believe that this deportation program, we don't know all the details. We know where we're starting with the criminals and these gangs. Tom Holman's made that clear. And there'll be more details to follow as we go. But I think the people support it.

In fact, I think the people are demanding it. And I think the mandate in the last election demonstrates that. Yeah, I want it. It's something that I think has really surpassed parties or anything like that. It really is just an American issue at the end of the day. And voters certainly have expressed that. When you think about the next two years, your first term in Congress, I love that old adage, begin with the end in mind. So as you're thinking about what you want to achieve, whether it's bills,

on the border and immigration front or other issues. What are you thinking about as far as, all right, when two years from now, this is what I want to say I will have accomplished? Well, I think we have an opportunity right now that is rare. And that is, I think we have an opportunity to really transform government. We have the trifecta. That's a big deal. And it's a bigger deal. People say, ah, you say it's a big deal, but President Trump was elected in 16.

you had the trifecta in 17 and 18. And, well, we did get the Trump tax cuts, which were a big issue. But to be honest, we are so better prepared, I feel like, this time for his second term than we were when he was first elected in 2017 and took the oath of office. So I look at this whole idea of reconciliation. We've been doing a whole lot of work in our first week of learning everything we can learn about. the process of reconciliation. I think that given the opportunity that we have, what I want to see at the end of this two years is that we fulfilled this Trump agenda. Again, I feel like it was a mandate. I feel like I certainly ran on it. And I want to do everything I can to help move the

ball down the field and accomplish what we need to accomplish. I have very, very clear beliefs about our national debt and how we've got to get that under control. I feel like that's a major national security issue. When we're spending over a trillion dollars in interest, more than we're spending on national defense, that's a concern. So I want to see us make real spending cuts. I want to see us get to a place. Now, I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I'm saying I want to see us get to where we need to be. And I think given the opportunity of a majority in the Senate, slim majority as it is in the House, and with President Trump, who is a proven strong leader in the White House, I think we have an opportunity to make this a generational transformation in the government.

Yeah. On that national debt issue, I think that's one that so many Americans are really worried about because you can look up the calculator and you watch it ticking up and up and up. But also, we know it requires hard choices. And it's not always popular when you start talking about cutting certain programs or this or that. Are there certain strategies that you would propose or conversations that you maybe even have had with colleagues of, hey, these are maybe some practical things that we could do to start moving in that direction of getting that national debt tackled? Well, I think there's a number of things. What I ran for this office, one of the things that I made it very clear was that you're not going to get the spending cuts that you need

by a nickel here and a dime there. I firmly believe that we've got to look at really shutting down some departments if we're able to get to that point. That obviously is not going to be a part of reconciliation. But I do think that all of us believe that education, the Department of Education here federally, needs to be rained in, if not shut down. I think you've got other opportunities with the IRS that has just been, I mean, this last administration has just exploded the number of agents with the IRS and putting money into that. You know, there's a lot of things, EPA rolling back these regulations. All of these are things that I think we honestly have got to approach because I think when we do that, you're going to not only save money,

but I think you're going to be able to get our debt under control. And I think that's That's going to be the key. Again, I know everybody looks at certain elements of spending and says, well, you know, if you do this, like tax cuts, they talk about it. If you do these tax cuts, it's going to only put a hole in the deficit. It's just going to make it that much worse. But I think it has been proven that that generates our economy in a big way. And so I do think that we're going to be looking at all those issues. You said it perfect. There are hard choices that are going to need to be made. And getting 218 in the House Republicans all on the same page to make those tough choices,

I think we're hearing so much about the one big, beautiful bill. I think that we're all going to find things in that one big beautiful bill that we feel really good about. And there may be some things that we wish we're in there that are not in there. But I think that at the final analysis that we're going to come up with, something that we're able to move forward and accomplish making this just a transformative government. Congressman, I would be fascinated to learn, if you would mind just sort of pulling back the curtain a little bit. What is it like as a brand new member? What is the process? You show up. You've won an election. You say, I'm here reporting for duty. What is this first week kind of

entailed for you? Well, the first week has been exciting. You know, one of the things really to get to the week from the time we were elected November 5th, going through orientation, having the opportunity to meet our colleagues from around the country. And that's been a real joy, by the way. We have a great freshman class that has come in to Congress. And so I've enjoyed that. But we immediately hit the ground in trying to develop staff and putting a staff together, not only here in D.C., which is absolutely critical, but also back in the district.

And we're going to be, in fact, this weekend, I'm going to be going to do a sense of ceremonial swearing in and an open house at our district office in Monroe, North Carolina, which is right there in Union County. And I'm really looking forward to that and being back home after the first week and going through that opportunity. But it's busy, just learning my way around. I still have staff that leads me everywhere I go. It's so confusing. There's too many hallways. Too many hallways. And every building seems to have a different numbering system, getting to meetings. That's something that we've been trying to learn. Going over the Capitol. It's also been a unique week in that we've had the passing of President Carter

and having him in the rotunda lying in repose for the last couple of days and seeing all of the folks. That was fascinating that have come to stand in line to pay their respects to him has been fascinating as well. So it's been a unique week. We've learned a lot, meeting people coming and going, but I'm excited. I really am about how it's, how it's, it's going to be. It's an exciting two years ahead of us. Well, as we close here, what is maybe something that you would like to share with your voters with the American people, whether a fact about you or your family, something that they might not know about you, but that they might be curious to learn? Well, you know, one of the things, and Governor Mike Huckabee was just, has been a good friend for a number of

years. And one of the things that he said that I've never forgotten, and I remember this, I try to remember this every day as a pastor, that having come from being a pastor for 35 years, now as a member of Congress, that he said, you know, one of the things that makes you unique, Mark, is that issues are political footballs oftentimes, but not so much for you, because as a pastor for 35 years, those political footballs for others are, you can put names and faces with every one of those issues. I know what it's like to sit down with a young girl who's just taking a pregnancy test and found out that she's pregnant. And she's trying to. decide what to do and being able to connect her with a pregnancy resource center and being able

to get her the help that she has, being able to sit down with her parents and walk through the process she's been through. Sitting down at the table with a couple who the husband just found out he lost his job that day and trying to figure out how they're going to make ends meet. So all of those issues, even dealing with people that with a border situation, dealing with folks that operate farms and you have folks that have come that are looking for work and those that are coming legally and are using the programs we have and making sure those are maintained and protected. So for me, they're not just political footballs. As a pastor, I've had the privilege

for 35 years of walking through life with people and ministering to them. And I want to be able to do that for our district. I want to be able to, you know, Governor Huckabee told me the he woke up and realized he was governor, he realized he had a much larger church than he had ever had before. And I thought, what a great way to approach it, that he feel that responsibility for the people that you represent. And you want to do a good job and you understand that this is a, this is an honor and a sacred privilege that has been shared and placed upon me to serve in the 119th Congress. And I want to do it to the best of my ability. Amen. Congressman Mark Harris, Thank you for your time.

Greatly appreciate it. Thanks for joining us here on the show. Honor to be with you. We're going to leave it there for today. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button. Do you never miss out on new shows from the Daily Signal podcast? Every weekday, catch top news in 10 right here in this podcast feed. Keep up with the news that you care about in just 10 minutes every weekday around 5 p.m.

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