The Daily Signal - The Daily Signal Presents "Problematic Women" - Therapy Course Claims Trump Is a Cult Leaders, Voters Are His Followers | Pamela Garfield-Jaeger

Episode Date: September 7, 2025

When Pamela Garfield-Jaeger learned a therapist was offering a class characterizing supporters of President Donald Trump as members of a cult, she was compelled to learn more. Using a fake name, Garfield-Jaeger register for the online course and in August, she spent three hours “learning” how a therapists can deal with their Trump supporting clients.    The course, titled “The Impact of Donald Trump on America- A Cultic Studies Perspective,” was led by clinical trauma specialist Jamie Marich, Ph.D. Additionally, Dr. Janja Lalich, a sociologist and cult expert, participated in the instruction. The instructors painted Trump as a cult leader.     The course “instructed therapists to hate their Trump supporting patients,” Garfield-Jaeger wrote in a post on social media after attending the class.    “I was ‘taught’ that if you voted for Trump, you are a part of a ‘cult on a national scale’ that ‘presents an image of bringing the country back to a white majority and white power,’” Garfield-Jaeger added.     Garfield-Jaeger, a social worker and author of multiple books, including “⁠A Practical Response to Gender Distress: Tips and Tools for Families⁠,” joins “Problematic Women” to discuss the ways the field of physiology has been influenced by a political agenda in recent years.     Also on today’s show, Garfield-Jaeger gives her insight into the deadly shooting at a Catholic school in Minneapolis in which the shooter was discovered to identify as transgender.     Plus, the leftist media promoted a rumor that Trump was dead after the president did not make a public appearance for several days. Where were they during President Joe Biden’s entire administration?   And we also take a little time on this week’s show to celebrate host Morgonn McMichael’s recent wedding, and the anniversary of Elise McCue being cancer free!     Enjoy the show!   Keep Up With The Daily Signal   Sign up for our email newsletters:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.dailysignal.com/email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠     Subscribe to our other shows:    The Tony Kinnett Cast: ⁠https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL2284199939⁠ The Signal Sitdown: ⁠https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL2026390376⁠   Problematic Women:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL7765680741⁠   Victor Davis Hanson: ⁠https://megaphone.link/THEDAILYSIGNAL9809784327⁠     Follow The Daily Signal:    X:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://x.com/intent/user?screen_name=DailySignal⁠ Instagram:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/thedailysignal/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Facebook:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.facebook.com/TheDailySignalNews/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Truth Social:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://truthsocial.com/@DailySignal⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/dailysignal?sub_confirmation=1⁠    Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and never miss an episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk. Business. Hey, this is Virginia Allen, and I'm excited to share this episode of Problematic Women, one of the Daily Signal's other podcasts. Each episode, we navigate the biggest stories in politics and culture, and we have a lot of fun doing it, too. If you like what you hear today, make sure to subscribe to Problematic Women for weekly episodes. Welcome back to Problematic Women, guys. We have such a fun episode today, and we have our lovely Problematic Woman of the Week, Pamela Garfield Yeager, author, social worker, and therapist who's going to bring us. some insights on the medical field and mental health and the direction, maybe dangerous direction it's going in. But in other words, here's what we're going to be talking about today. The left

thinks that Trump died. And I think it's so funny. And it's really funny comparing it to how they reacted when Biden went MIA for many months and what happens when Trump goes missing for three days. So the compare and contrast is going to be a fun conversation. And also some new details have emerged on the Minnesota Catholic school shooter. And that's going to be an interesting thing to get into, especially the mental health aspect of it. I'm so excited for your insights. And we have some very interesting personal news to share from our team. So strap in. We have a great episode today. And welcome back to Problematic Women. Welcome back. I'm Elise McHugh. I'm Morgan McMichael. And I'm Virginia Allen. And Pamela, we are so thrilled to have you. And especially on a

week like this week where your skills and expertise, in the field of counseling and therapy and psychology. We're very blessed to have them. Thanks for coming all the way from Georgia to be with us. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, well, I think you're only, our second guest who has gotten on a plane to come. So we feel very honored that you did that. I'm really enjoying my time. I want to make a nice weekend of this visit. As you should. It's a great time of year here in Washington, D.C. The weather is perfect. Have you been to D.C. before and been able just to explore around? I have. I've had a few meetings. here at the Heritage Foundation.

Oh, very nice. Very nice. Great to welcome you back. And Morgan, it's great to welcome you back. I missed you guys so much. We missed you. Congratulations. Thank you.

Recent wedding. We're going to meet. I realized I said McMichael. I'm actually Morgan Brown now. Exclusive. That's kind of weird. It's weird. Oh, trying to sound for size.

It's a new last name. And today, Mitchell had a news hit, and he said my wife and I, and I was like, oh. That's me. That's me. Who's that? Who's that? But thank you guys. It's just, it's been honestly the most joyous.

Past few weeks I'm really excited to get to share a little bit more about it. Yeah, we have pictures later in the show. So stay tuned to for that. So excited for that. It's going to be awesome. First off, I really, really want to get into this first topic so bad because it genuinely made me laugh a lot, seeing it on my timeline this past week. Same.

The left thinks that Trump died. Like, I don't even think they think that. I think they're just fabricating this. narrative because they want panic and he has a bruise on his hand. And Morgan, we were talking about this before, like texting about it. Unfortunately, I think that the left is trying to manifest it. I mean, I don't believe in manifestation. I believe in Jesus and prayer. Amen. But this was circulating on my timeline. I woke up and I'm scrolling on Twitter and I see like a black and white photo of Trump and it says Trump rumored to be dead. And I'm like, no way. Let me keep scrolling. And all of a sudden there's

like dozens of post mainstream media outlets picking it up like, Trump rumored to be dead, all because he had no public appearance on his schedule for three whole days. Three whole days. And like you said, Alis, Joe Biden was missing for months of his administration. And his administration covered up the fact that he had cancer and were hiding his medical records. And Trump still is the most transparent administration we have ever had in the country. Yet he goes missing for three days. God forbid, he's just looking through security camera footage of the White House Guard

and trying to figure out who cracked his marble. And people think he's dead. I think it's hysterical. Even J.D. Vans was saying, you know, if the mainstream outlets are running with this, I wonder what else they're running with. But one conspiracy that I do think is funny is J.D. Vance during an interview a couple weeks ago

had said, you know, if a tragedy did happen, I feel ready to jump in as president. And people took that and ran with it. Wow. Did you see this come across your timeline at all? I did see it. I mean, I thought it was so silly. I didn't even know what to think

Whenever I see stuff like this I'm like Oh they're like trying to grasp that straws with things At first it was like the bruise on his hand with the foundation And other things and It's a testament I think to how hard the president works That's what I was thinking Yeah I mean you have him disappear for a handful of days Of course we have a long weekend

Like when a lot of people disappear And choose to relax and spend a little time with family with friends But it's like the result can only be in the mind of the media is like, well, if he's not making public appearances, he must be gone gone. Like, oh, oh boy, guys, let's slow down here. And his first appearance that he was seen was going to his golf course in Virginia to go play a round of golf because it's Labor Day weekend and he was going to celebrate with his friends and his family. I just think it's hysterical. Well, he had a very funny reaction. I think we have a clip. So let's go ahead and roll that of just

the president, finding out for himself. Mr. President, did you know that you were dead? So I do, I love Trump's sense of humor and anyway, I just found his reaction to this whole thing to be quite funny and I think, you know, he takes the media about as seriously as the rest of us do and show it. As he should, I saw a headline that said Trump confirms he's not dead and I'm like, oh wow, news. The fact that he was gone because he was pouring over security camera footage to see who crack. his limestone in the rose garden. That is so funny to me. That's so real, but what isn't real are all these rumors that were fabricated around this Trump is dead narrative?

First off, people were saying that they saw Melania exiting Walter Reed Hospital. I actually don't know if that's true. And if she was, maybe she was doing some humanitarian work. I haven't verified that either. Also, like, everyone goes to the doctor. It's not that big a deal. Maybe there was another reason, but also,

it was like this one tweet that came across my timeline of, like, I saw Melania at Walter Reed. like really weird, seeing that Trump's missing. I think, you know, the rumors are true, like someone trying to verify it. And then the second thing that was kind of funny that was obviously fake was a video, well, not obviously, I will say, did fall for this. I felt like I was age 65 years old. AI's that good now.

I felt for the AI, okay, everybody. Can happen to any of us. If this has happened to your loved one, just log off Facebook. But I saw the video that was circulating of the White House and someone throwing stuff out the window and saying, oh, people only do this in like the olden days when something's so nasty that they can't drag it through the house and maybe he died or maybe he's really ill. And then someone was like, actually, I don't think those windows even open. They're bulletproof.

And I was like, darn, fell for it. And that's what even Trump says is he was like, these windows weigh like 600 pounds. Like they're literally bolted shut. You can't open the White House windows. So no, this is fake, fake news, fake video. Yeah, those windows are sealed. Those windows are all. They're all sealed.

You can't open them. So funny. The drama. The drama. Well, and there, Pamela, there is so much drama. There's always so much drama, of course, especially around President Trump. And an issue that you recently wrote about, speaking of drama around President Trump, is this new psychology course, kind of therapy course that paints President Trump,

President Trump as a cult leader, which I guess makes everyone who voted for President Trump a member of a cult? What is going on here? Who are the people that instigated and created this course? Yes, I actually took this class, not because I thought I was going to learn anything, but because I wanted to expose it. Actually, a therapy friend of mine showed it to me, and then I sent it over to the post-millennial and said, can I write on this? And they said yes. And for those on Twitter asking, I hope you didn't pay for that. I actually got reimbursed. So this is actually the second time these women have led this class once before the election and then once just in early August this year. And they proposed that if you voted for Trump, that you are in a part of a cult. And that

Cult is a, sorry, MAGA is a cult on the national scale. Wow. And that if you voted for Trump, that you want to bring the country back to a white majority and white power. Wow. Yeah. And then people in the class ask, well, how does that explain the minorities who vote for Trump? I don't understand. And then they started to quote the illiteracy rates. And so they basically said, if you're a minority and voted for Trump, that means they're

illiterate and dumb. And then they said, but some people are smart and they still fall into cults and it's not their fault. But also, they're selfish. Is that not racist? at all. Okay. Very racist.

How many people took this course? Like, I'm curious. I'm honestly not sure because it was online. So they had us hidden. And there was security. So I passed the security test. Did you have to use a fake name? I did use a fake name.

Okay. This was your fake name. Well, it was actually my Hebrew name. I don't want to say it. Yeah, because you might need to use that again. Yes. Let's keep that hidden. Okay.

So was this an all-day course? What did they cover? It was three hours. Which felt like it was forever. It was insane. And what are the qualifications for the people educating others? So if I wanted to register and use my real name, I could actually get three continuing education credits towards my license. Are you serious?

Class officially. Oh, for psychology. For psychology. Yeah, I have a social worker. So for counseling. Wow. Like legally. Legally.

People are taking courses like this as a course. This was a certified class. That's why it was so outrageous. Are there a lot of certified classes like this that exist that, you know, have, like, political biases? They all have the undertone, but none of them that I've seen have been this belatant. Yeah. Or they advertised it and the course objectives proposed to explain why and how anybody voted for Trump is in a cult. And I'm really curious.

So this is going crazy. This is real. This is real. This is tea. Incredible. This is tea. A lot of tea here. So this is a course that can lead you to certification. Did they say in the?

course what the practical applications of the education that you're doing from this course is. Later on in the course, I learned how to help people in this cult and how to pull them out. But really a lot of it was about the therapist and helping them with their self-care because they hate their clients so much for voting for Trump. Oh my gosh. They talked about how really that they're starting a new Holocaust and other people so much that they could go and kill others. So they're worried about working with their Trump voting clients. Oh my gosh. I am shocked because of course, you know,

there are legitimate cults in our country that I do think social workers and therapists really do help people in our country, but then to think that there are licensed people taking a course like this who genuinely believe if they have a client come in who is a conservative who didn't vote for Trump and now you have a psychologist or a therapist or whoever. for now utilizing this quote-unquote education to convince their client that they're in a cult and their, like that is just beyond.

It was so divisive. And the irony too is, so one of the, two of the women were licensed therapists and the other woman actually is a cult specialist. Wow. And if you've ever watched any documentary on cults, you would see her. I'm not sure by pronouncing her name right,

but it's Dr. Jonda Laylich. Sounds familiar. I really like researching cults. So she's on all of the Netflix. documentaries on mainstream cults are, you know, cults that we've heard of. Right. I think Scientology and, you know, other cults that we know of. From a professional ethical perspective within the field of psychology, I know it's, you know,

it really tries to remain separate from politics. It's not a political field. It's supposed to do with the world. Well, it does not, but it is supposed to. I mean, is this breaking some sort of professional code? It is. In fact, in my article and on my tweet that went viral about this, I called out the National Board of Certified Counselors, the NBCC.

They're the ones that certify these women to be able to put out this training. And they actually tweeted and thanked me for using my voice and calling this to their attention. I don't know what consequences have come out, but the National Certification Board is now aware of this, and they do not approve. Well, I was going to say we see so many even, like, gender counselors and therapists with kids' transitioning and children needing to go to therapist if they want to get on hormone blockers. And I feel like there is this just encouragement of mental illness almost. There is for sure.

And so then when you hear stories like this, like, okay, this isn't licensed to your practice. Like, is that like a thing of like convincing people that they are trans? Like is that legal per se? That depends on how you define legal. It's not ethical. Yeah, of course. So I'm a little bit older. I was trained in the late 90s, it was not a thing then.

But this has come out new since there's been this heavy silencing and this heavy push and a lot of money behind transing children. Billions of dollars. Even adults that are having mental health issues. And a lot of people have tried to speak up, but there's been opposition. So, you know, there's a large group of us, including here at the Heritage Foundation, that's fighting this and fighting through legislation or fighting through policies and trying to change minds in institutions. It depends. It depends.

And also it varies state by state. There are different laws within the state. There are what they call conversion therapy laws, which is conflating that term. So they would say that if you wanted to help someone be comfortable in the body they were born in, they would say you're converting them out of being trans. Well, and there's a major, I'm sure you're aware of this.

There's a major case that the Supreme Court has agreed to hear out of Colorado that Alliance Defending Freedom is involved with. Yeah, I know the mom. Yeah. Oh, you do. Oh, that's amazing. You know the mom. She's wonderful.

I mean, this is huge. Big fighter. This is a massive case. We should have her on. But I really feel like this is the case that will determine for generations to come the ability of not only counselors, but also pastors, even parents, to be able to come alongside young people, but really anybody who says, hey, I'm experiencing, feeling. uncomfortable in my body. I'm experiencing some form of gender dysphoria. I want to be comfortable in being a woman and being a man but I'm struggling. Can you help me? And right now in many states across the country, hands are tied. They cannot do anything but affirm the gender dysphoria.

And so this Supreme Court case is huge. And it was obviously really exciting in March when the Supreme Court said they're going to hear it. I think they're going to hear it before the end of the year. And they're keeping secrets from the parents. And that's a big thing. I think that's what it's actually I think they're missing more specifically the element of the parental rights element of it. That's huge. Because school counselors are doing this behind the parents' backs. We hear about this so much. And one really tragic case that we saw last week was the Annunciation Catholic School shooting.

More details have emerged since our last episode. Turns out that the shooter, Robert Westman, who identifies as a woman, goes as Robin. Or identified. When is Robin? Yeah. When does Robin Westman, a woman woman? woman, extremely mentally ill, said in his manifesto that was taken down on YouTube, that he felt very trapped, that he doesn't actually feel trans anymore, and that his long hair is the only

thing keeping him to his trans identity. His parents helped him affirm his trans identity when he was 17, and he was just completely mentally distraught because of being enabled by this ideology. What were your initial reactions when you've been hearing about all these details. Yeah, I mean, my initial reaction, of course, hearing that he had a transgender identity and that he mostly aligned with radical left-wing ideology, and I actually went and looked and saw that video that he posted,

and I saw how disturbed he is was, how disturbed he was. And I don't know, or I can't say, if the ideology caused this, but what I would say is it certainly didn't help. And what it does is you take someone who already has a lot of struggles. I think he had psychosis. I think he probably was schizophrenic. You know, I can't diagnose him.

But I think he had psychotic features. And when you have someone that's already struggling with being in touch with reality, and then you tell them to change their entire body, body and to reinforce this lack of being in reality that reinforces the mental illness. And it creates more disturbance and more, you know, anxiety, all of it. So I saw how we had a young man who already had issues and then we made it worse, exponentially worse. That's how I saw it. Yeah. Well, I mean, just the details of the case are so sad. Fox News had a great breakdown, just kind of showing the timeline of multiple police calls to this individual's home, that some of them were

marked as, you know, like a wellness check call, potentially, you know, concerned for, you know, self-harm. This individual came from a home where the parents were divorced, I think, his parents divorced who was about 11 years old, so coming from a broken home, went to this school that ultimately he ended up going and shooting and killing two individuals, injuring 18 others, before he himself committed suicide. So I think at the end of the day, I feel like that is one of the greatest harms

of what we've seen in recent years around the treatment of gender dysphoria is it becomes so pigeonholed. And people say, okay, well, we're just treating the gender dysphoria. You can't treat the gender dysphoria without treating the rest of someone's story. We're complex people.

We have layers that contribute to who we are and our ideology and how we think and believe and then our behavior. And so I feel like that is in so many ways. And I know you've literally written a book with guides for parents on how to address this. But it's in so many ways naive to say, okay, you know, we're just going to treat the gender as far as like, no, it doesn't work that way. It's all about the theoretical framework of it. So what's happened in academia and especially in the mainstream mental health is they don't want to see it.

as a mental health issue at all. Like I see transgender identities and gender distress as a symptom of other issues, other mental health issues, or even sometimes just conflicts at home. It depends on the severity. But a mainstream mental health person who's been trained in grad school recently would believe that the transgender identity is what's causing the other issues. So they flip it. So they believe we have to affirm this, and then all of the other problems will go.

away. So if somebody perhaps with an eating disorder, they would say they have this eating disorder because they're trans and we need to get them more comfortable in their body first and then, you know, the eating disorder will calm down. So if you have substance abuse, same thing. So you see someone with severe addiction and they'll say, well, they're just, they're just, the world is against them. Look at this. They're a victim and they don't have the hormones and surgeries that will align with their mind because they think they're born that way. So they rush to it because, of course, there's the belief that they will go and kill themselves if they don't get these things.

However, the shooter really demonstrates the fact that he was affirmed. We don't know what hormones he was put on, but he did get his name changed and he did get the new identity. And yet he did not only kill these children, he shot himself. Have there been verifiable facts and studies done to support that? very backwards viewpoint of like they're mentally ill because they're trans or is this purely based on feeling an agenda oh agenda feeling everything's agenda feeling zero zero science behind it there's zero science good all this no science what do you think about

like recently especially in light of this tragedy there has been countless democrat lawmakers who are coming out that say you know we need to have more gun control we need to ban guns. This is a city problem. When we know that's not the case. And, you know, this isn't the first time that I'll say, like, a mentally ill person has committed harm to American people. You know, what do you think needs to be done from maybe a legislative point of view when it comes to the gender versus guns issue? Because you see these Democrats posting, you know, we still need to protect trans kids. This is not a trans issue. And then you have the more conservative angle that is like, there is clearly a mental health crisis going on in our country, follow the billions of dollars.

These kids aren't okay. Like we are treating a problem that isn't there. And I think, you know, the Lupron, the puberty blockers are continuing to push those issues even further. So I mean, how do we win here and how do we actually, I feel like move our country in a direction that makes logical sense when it comes to gun control versus transgenderism? Like you wouldn't think these issues would be together, but they really are. Yeah, and this isn't the first trans shooter that we have heard about.

So I'm a little different, I think, than other therapists, even maybe other conservative therapists, because I think more therapy isn't necessarily the solution. Yeah. Especially government-funded therapy. There you go. Given how radical therapy has become, the therapist that would end up doing the help, I think, would make it worse. So, you know, it's difficult. What I think, Trump is doing this and I think this could be reinforced at the state level,

but I think more of strengthening families. So policies that are strengthening families, I think, you know, in the long run, is what we should be focusing on. You know, there's all different things. The other element we haven't mentioned is the marijuana. And there's a lot of states where it's become legalized. And so I controvert. I'm another problematic woman where I've recognized how much marijuana has harmed, especially when it comes to psychosis.

And we can't prove what happened with this individual. But I do know for a fact that marijuana can induce psychosis. And I've seen it firsthand as a therapist working in residential programs. So most people aren't aware of that or they think, oh, if that happens, it's rare. It's not as rare as you think. So that's one piece of the drugs. But there is not a one of, you know, you just do this and it'll go away. I think it's coming from a lot of different angles.

And I certainly don't think gun control is going to help because, as we know, guns are illegal in a lot of places where people get shot. Absolutely. Well, it's interesting because the left is not the only side that's deliberating gun control. Actually, today, or so on this week, yeah. Yeah, this week, Mary Margaret O'Hollahan from the Daily Wire, friend of the pod, broke that the Department of Justice is deliberating banning guns for transgender people. people specifically as a range of options blocking mentally unstable individuals from committing acts of violence. And she was informed by a senior official from the DOJ that, quote, we are not playing semantics with words like dysphoria. We're talking about trannies and we don't think

they should have guns. I'm really curious what you guys think on this because on the one hand, extremely anti-2A, but also is it because mentally ill individuals are not allowed to have guns. So where does this fall? I was going to say there's kind of two-size-this coin because my immediate reaction was, well, we don't want to be taking guns away from Americans. Like, you know, we have the Second Amendment for a reason. But also there is background checks. And like, if you have a mental health condition, you can't buy a gun legally anyways

for the safety of the American people because it is a firearm. Like, it is a weapon. So I genuinely think that this is a step in the right direction, actually classifying transgenderism as a mental health. condition because I feel like that's kind of how we've gotten here is the notion that it's okay for men to be women, it's okay for women to be men, and they're just normal, they're equal to men and women, even though there's not, and there's clearly something else deep-rooted wrong with that. And I mean, I would support something like this given the countless examples of misuse of firearms

within the trans community. I think the one thing that I would caveat that I say, I think we have to be careful with here is just that obviously someone who identifies as transgender doesn't necessarily mean they're going to commit acts of violence. 100%. So I think that would be a slippery slope of, you know, I 100% am with you that people will identify as transgender. Like there's something deeper going on there. They're not okay. There's a lot of hurt. There's a lot of brokenness that needs to be addressed.

And that would be like one of the negatives I would see from this is that people would just. assume it leads down that path of thinking of if you identify as transgender, you're a violent person. Like that's not necessarily true. But I believe that there's other conditions like schizophrenia sure, where if you have schizophrenia diagnosed and you go to purchase a firearm, I believe that you cannot buy a firearm. Correct me if I'm wrong. And some other ones as well to where, of course, not every person who has schizophrenia is violent as well as not every person who's trans is necessarily violent but you know before I want to say like 2020 gender dysphoria was classified as like a mental health issue and now it has I feel like just been conflated into normalcy well I haven't

personally never bought a gun yet but I wonder how much of this is we don't have the regulations in place and the walls in place to stop this or is this mental health stuff just not being really enforced by the gun sellers or like how much are they even allowed to enforce it or I just I don't know it's very so much state to state it does I honestly don't I'm not an expert on yeah gun laws um but if you've any transgender identified person will have some other mental health issue whether or not they're diagnosed with it that might not be the case but they will um I honestly I don't know what I think about it Because the other piece of it is cross-sex hormones do really destabilize a person when it comes to their mood and their judgment. Again, it doesn't necessarily make them violent.

But combined with other things, it's a factor. So, I don't know. You're allowed to get it. If you're saying you're taking like an antipsychotic medication, you're allowed to get a gun. I honestly don't know all the laws. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure on the specifics of the laws. I'm pretty sure, very state by state, but federally, there is kind of like a blanket.

You have to do a background check. And there is kind of like if there's anything on there. And there's like legalities if you can, if you can't. But I do think it's just interesting how this is now being like put forward as even an option. I mean, it's wild just the evolution of like, wow, we're having this conversation. Yeah. But I would to that end, Pimelma, just be curious to hear you've been in the field of psychology for a very long time, a therapy for a very long time. What are some of just the major

shifts or changes you've seen to where, like we're having this conversation. Oh my God, this podcast isn't long enough. But one of the main things is treatment is no longer treatment. You go to a therapist now and the therapist wants you to feel good. They don't want to actually help you take responsibility. They don't necessarily want to fix the roots. they're not going to the root. So therapists used to be, I'd say to a fault, they would analyze you, and they'd want to always look at something and say, it's really something else, is there's all this, you know, underlying things.

And now everything's on the surface. It's the complete opposite. So this affirmation therapy is about not looking at the underlying issues anymore. It's just looking at what we see on the surface, which to me was really bizarre, because I used to be annoyed with therapists. For the other reason, you know, like, stop analyzing me. You're hungry.

Yeah, it doesn't mean anything. I mean, I know that psychologists and psychiatrists are different. You have the therapy side and the more pharmaceutical side. What have you seen? Obviously, there has been an increase of SSRI use, especially with women. And as I feel like the mental health, even just with social media in the uprising in the past decade or two decades, how have you seen in your practices as being a counselor and being in the psychology industry, have you seen like the social changes of just pharmaceuticals and

social media and other aspects really change from that perspective? Yeah, I think, well, it's certainly, we all know there's been a huge increase in SSRIs and other psych meds. And I think it all goes hand-in-hand because it's about that quick fix. And it's about, it's not my fault. There's just something, it's some, you know, a chemical imbalance, which has now been disproven. Yeah. So, and just all of that quick fix and just not really looking at, you know, how you can change from within. And also being patient with, you know, sometimes it takes time and it takes work to go through it and people want to just do it quickly.

I mean, there's the weight loss medications, all kinds of examples of that. And that is a thread within therapy. So, you know, therapists, they think, oh, just take the meds. Also, there's the pHQ9 test that they're giving to everybody. If you go, like, I had a knee injury and they gave me the PHQ9 to ask me, about my mental health. Well, I had a bad knee. I was not clinically depressed. And, but, you know, I was having a bad day. Is that a new standard that they're now issuing this mental health screening? It's very, yeah, they're, they want to do universally. And especially with children,

they want to do universally because the earlier they get the child hooked on the drugs, the harder it is to get them off of it. So that's happening in Illinois. They just passed a law for schools to have universal screenings for children. And I see that as a pipeline to get them on my drugs. And I see that as a pipeline to get them on more drugs. Wow. So interesting. Well, I feel like, you know, the left is so aware that you have to start young, right? Like you target kids young.

And I feel like now because everybody's are like catching up on this stuff like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Because it is. Like it's where so much formation happens. And so I love the fact that you have written a children's book. Yes. By the way, I'm a disaffected liberal. So maybe that's why.

I'm like, I got to just use my old. I'm so weird. liberal mentality. California. No, it's good. Former reject. Yeah. I'm a California escapee.

So good. Well, the book is called Froggy Girl, and I love it. It's so cute. It's adorable. But it's practical. So share if you would a little bit about the premise, why you wrote it. So, you know, I've been talking a lot about this gender issue, and one of the things I, actually, I wrote this other book for parents. And while I was kind of stalking it on Amazon,

it was sitting next to all these really horrible books for children and teenagers, you know, all this like just graphic, sexual, you're born in the wrong body and just icky stuff. So I got inspired to say, well, I want to write a book that teaches kids that they were born right and, you know, just to accept themselves for who they are. And by the way, this book doesn't mention anything to do with trans or gender or anything like that. It's really more of a classical tale. In fact, there are like old school stories. inspired by the 70s classical liberal record for you and me.

You guys are too young for that. That's what's a clip here? The show notes. Yeah. I'll give you a link after. So it's about a little girl who wishes she was a frog. There she is.

And her parents support her froggy identity because they love her and they want to support her. Her teacher gives her a special froggy flag and her friends are also really nice to her. they're a little weird, they're uncomfortable. You can see the pair of out here. Absolutely, absolutely. So she goes with all her froggy stuff,

and she tries to do the froggy things, but it doesn't work out so well because she can't swim very well and she can't make the froggy sounds. And then she starts to feel really sad and alone. And she goes for a walk, and she meets this wise turtle. He doesn't have a name, but it's the wise turtle.

I love it. And the wise turtle teaches her that she helps her appreciate, that she's a beautiful little little. girl. Yeah. And she can sing and dance and even do a twirl. It rhymes. I love it. I love it. That's so sweet. It's cute. And the last line, it does say that she, a beautiful little girl, it says, no, I'm blanking on it. No, yeah. Let's get it straight from the source. I wrote it myself, I swear. The little girl learned to love the way God made her beautiful and and smart and full of fervor. Oh, I love it. And the drawings were done by a detransitioner. Are you serious. Yes, a man who used to believe he was a woman. Powerful. Absolutely powerful.

Love her outfit. Yeah, that. It's fantastic. It's so cute. His name is Nicholas Blooms. I want to give him a shout out. He did such a great job. Amazing job. He did a little personalized. I love that. And see, this is powerful. The perfect example of how you to keep your stronghold on sanity in the culture. It's not about blasting like the religious aspect of it in everyone's face on every single page or saying all these statistics, which is what the left does with their religion of transgender and an ideology, is really just affirming what's natural and what's right and what's good. Like, you are you. If you try to not be you, it's not going to work out.

And you're perfect the way that you're created. And that's how you take back the culture, not forcing your ideology onto people. So that's beautiful. And the irony is a lot of people who believe they're leftists, I think they don't realize what they are supporting. They like my book. They don't realize what I'm saying. They just think, yeah, that's a sweet story. It's because it's subconscious.

And I think that's honestly what conservatives need a little bit more of, especially in culture and how to shift culture when it comes to radical leftists and children's books. Because right now, if you go to a public library, I mean, I was even remember babysitting a couple's kid. This was probably three years ago when they had like the non-binary baby alphabet book. And it's like it is so blatant and out there. And I think books like this honestly are so necessary to just infiltrate that because honestly, a liberal could buy that book and would read it. And it's like just slowly introducing these concept of normalcy and that, you know,

you are born in the right body and God made you so beautiful just the way you are. You know, you were knitting your mother's womb. I knew you before you knew me. And I think that that is something that just like needs to be talked about more specifically in culture for kids. So I love it. Thank you. We have some fun news from two of our hosts here today that we're going to talk about in a second.

But before we get to that, Pamela, tell us, how do we get your books? How do we follow your work? Okay, so Froggy Girl has a website. It's froggiegirlbook.com. Love it. And the other book is on Amazon. All the links are on that website. I didn't do that for this one because I was a rookie, and I didn't know

what I was doing then. So live and learn. This is my first published book, and I'm hoping to do a second edition, but is on Amazon, and it's called a practical response to gender distress. And this is written really for families who are in the thick of it, who don't know what to do and what to say, and it debunks a lot of the sayings that the transactivists say, and it has a lot of practical advice from all my years of clinical experience working with teenagers and working with families. And it has a transingualist dictionary at the end. It has a lot of just very practical things. There are other books on the subject matter that are wonderful, but

they're a little more theoretical, a little more academic. And this one is for that person who just wants to know what is going on and what do I do with my kid. It also has a lot of resources in the back. You can find that on Amazon. And I have a website, the truthful therapist.org. And I am on all the socials. I'm on Instagram as the dot truthful therapist.

And my Twitter is truth therapist. I have some videos. I don't do an active YouTube, but I have a lot of videos on YouTube. So you could just see interviews with me, which I'll probably get some clips from you guys on there on YouTube, which is The Truthful Therapist. And I have a substack, which is Pam the truthful therapist. And I also write columns for human events. So you can Google me on human events and see some of my articles there.

All over the place. You're busy. We love it. Well, we have some fun and exciting news, both from Elise and Morgan as we move towards instead of, I guess, in lieu of pop culture today, we're doing like personal popping news. Personal popping news. Personal popping news. So, Elise, you had a really exciting anniversary this week.

Yes, I did. On September 4th was my five-year anniversary of getting my thyroid removed because I had cancer in 2020. It's a big deal. I'm cancer-free for now. Which is great. You are cancer-free, manifesting it forever. But yeah, it was a crazy time back in 2020. Congratulations.

Thank you. I was 18, got high school canceled because of COVID, had a breakup with my high. school boyfriend and then bam they were like you also have cancer I was like oh okay cool um everything all at once right now I was like well just do it all at once like it's fine Elise McHugh can handle anything and so on September 4th I had a total thyroidectomy which means they remove the thyroid parathyroid and a few lymph nodes in my neck if you can see it I don't know if you can oh yeah I've never noticed that wow actually I really never noticed that when I drink you can see it be red but no I'm just I feel so blessed that I have a family that supported me through this that I have a doctor who just by

happenstance was checking my face my neck and he was like hmm there's a bump there and that I have just such a wonderful support around me I know that there's a lot of people that go under to have thyroid cancer undetected for so many years because it's so just like you don't think about it it doesn't feel like anything else especially at the age of 18 I know so that's so much to go through at that age during that time Yeah, I don't think I fully, I honestly don't know if I fully soaked it in yet. If you go to a therapist, make sure you go to a good one. Pamela's here. Yeah. I didn't go to a therapist during this time.

I just went to church a lot and I found a special. It's a special devotion to. That's better. It was. And I felt a special devotion to St. Paraguay and the patron saint of sicknesses and cancer. So if you think that you're feeling a little weird, just maybe check your neck. Yeah. And it's very common among women.

So just keep praying for me for everyone who is affected by this. And there's a chance that it'll come back, but we don't have to think about that. Five years cancer free. Five years' happy news. That is my big news of the week. And I'm so glad I could share that with everyone here on the podcast. Yay! You have huge news as well from this past month.

Also huge news. I'm not cancer-free, but I got married. You added. Added a husband. And you look so gorgeous. I saw your pictures. It was honestly just like dream day. And it's funny because I feel like everyone who told me before my wedding,

like something is going to go wrong on your wedding day and it's going to be okay. I kid you not, I feel so blessed. My team was just amazing. My family has just been the biggest blessing and so supportive. And my mom was there helping me plan everything. I went to plan this wedding in six and a half months. In another country. In another country.

We did go overseas. It was in London at this just beautiful historic home, King Henry the 8th. owned the home at a point in history. Queen Elizabeth had lived there in her childhood. My husband and I are both just history nerds and we wanted to go somewhere that had just something historic. It also was a monastery. So that was really cool. But we planned this wedding in six and a half months overseas and I mean everything went off perfectly. Like there was not a single thing that went wrong. It was truly just like the most magical dream day and just such a joy to be married now. And the entire day like was just just so God-centered and that was something like even though we are having this celebration and it's

something to be excited about the one central piece of our day was we wanted God in every aspect, whether it's getting ready and we're praying or, you know, just the entire ceremony. We had a string trio playing Amazing Grace and another hymn that we were just like able to pray over and we shared communion together while at the altar. or like that was our first act of commitment to each other is like committing to God. And that was probably my favorite part, honestly, of the entire day. But then just all the celebrating, it was just that's the reason for marriage. And I think that culturally and societally, you know, we've kind of gotten this place where

marriage is mocked and it's like a celebration and it's not, you know, a man and a woman coming together in a covenant before God. And like that's what it is. So just being able to celebrate that and committing to that with my husband was, just incredible, and then being in a beautiful place with all of our closest friends and family. It was amazing. That's gorgeous. Yeah, it's weighty.

It is, I think we, because you're right, like, we look at it. And it is this amazing celebration. There's so much joy. And the Lord takes covenant very seriously. Very seriously. It's not a joke. There's so much power behind saying this is the person I'm choosing for life. We're committed to one another for the rest of our days.

And it feels like, because I mean, I went through premarital counseling. with my husband and that's something that I have always wanted to do. And I think that's something that every couple should honestly do and like just being involved with your church, having a mentor couple who is married and has children who is involved in your church, I think is so necessary because so many couples I feel like get married and like divorce is an option. And in reality, it's not an option. Like scripture is very real and what God says is acceptable and not acceptable, A, for being

equally yoked for marriage. and be what is acceptable for divorce and not acceptable for divorce and like what that looks like in the church. And I encourage like young people like who are have the desire on their heart to like be married is like take that very seriously. And that's something that before I met Mitchell, I had been dating for marriage. And like that had always been on the forefront of my brain. And like when we met and we had all the necessary conversations it did have them very quickly. We had dated for 107 days and we got engaged and then planned our wedding to be it was August 18th and so yeah just God's so good yeah and like keep talking to him because you never know what's going to be happening a year in your life

it could be really crazy it could be a wild year well we have some awesome pictures of you and your gorgeous wedding dress we want to put those up and let people see because yeah the venue insane your dress stunning like everything just like I kept looking at it being like I just see Cinderella. Every picture is like Cinderella. You are so sophisticated. Thank you. I was not that sophisticated when I was your age. It was like my Pinterest wedding that came to life, but like just in so many special ways. And even just like all of the details, so much was DIYed and hand done. Like our menus, Mitchell and I had sat down at our dinner table and like glued and crafted our menus together. And like just my mom helping with everything like flying to go to get by a dress fitted. And then it,

There is just so many crazy details of how the day just all came together. And I have to shout out the sword. Mitchell had a sword at her wedding. That's cool. Oh yeah. So I saw that. And I thought he was carrying a cane like transgender people. I was like, what's going on with Mitchell?

But then I zoomed in and I was like, oh, it's a sword. That's awesome. It's a sword. So what's the significance of the sword? So I wish there was a significance with the sword. It's just cool. It's just cool. It's just cool.

And that's all you need. And when we chose our wedding venue, which I will say if you want to plan a wedding, international weddings are the way to go. If you find an international venue, people think we spent crazy amounts of money on our wedding. And I will tell you, we spent less money overseas than we would appear in Virginia or D.C. So, and are we, many such cases, honestly. And we had 70 people at our wedding. So, still like, pretty good size. Pretty good size. And my thing with that is, you know, your guests are going to be paying for a flight in a hotel wherever they go. Why don't go somewhere cool? Give them a vacation.

But the sword, Mitchell was very light. Let there be light. Mitchell knew he was like, I really want a sword. And I was like, okay, I don't know if you know this about England. We were in England. There are a lot of knife and sword laws that you can't actually, it's a ceremonial sword. It's like it has a blunt blade.

But you can't actually like import one. So we had to go and buy one there. My parents were, and my whole family was on a vacation for two weeks before our wedding. They actually were in Edinburgh, went to a sword shop. my mother-in-law purchased the sword there my mom picked it up and then they drove it down to have it and now it's currently in transit back to america but we can have it but it was just like that was the one logistical thing that we were like we have to get the sword the sword is important and honestly it was so much fun we had a cute little champagne tower where mitchell got to slice the bottle off with it and we cut the cake with it it was a fun it's practical see it is very practical it's going to be hung on our wall i know it will that's so cool your kids are going to be like mommy where did you get that sword oh your dad hey and you know if the left gets power again and we can't have guns anymore you're fine we have a sword you have a sword

you might have to sharpen it though you may have to sharpen it yeah it was just such a wonderful day and uh i just it feels like it was yesterday but it also feels like it was forever ago like really people are not lying that the day goes by so quick And even when, like, we had 70 people, we talked to every single person there. It feels like it was just like a high and goodbye. Yeah. As soon as the day was over, I was like, oh, wow, what just happened? Yeah.

What did we just do? That was unrowing. Wow, that was really crazy and then just scrolling through all the photos. But it's truly, it was just so special, so magical. Oh, well, congratulations. Thank you. So happy for you. And also happy to have you that.

I know. I'm so glad to be. It's been weird. I have to say, it's been really weird, like being off work. I was telling Elise before the show. I took, like, a whole month off Twitter. Good for you. I, like, was to roll, but I, like, wouldn't post anything.

Wouldn't get into any, like, Twitter finger drama. And I came back and I was like, wow, I kind of loved that. I think we should all do that. It's okay to go offline. That is what I learned. So good. So good. Well, although every week we encourage you all to go online

to answer our question of the week. and to watch us here. So last week for our question of the week. Last week our question of the week was about Taylor Swift. She got engaged with your trust Kelsey. Big news. Big, big news. The question was, do you think Taylor Swift will trigger a marriage boom in America?

A lot of you guys wanted to respond to this. I'm so excited to hear all of your responses. It was honestly 50-50 with the one word yes or noes. But some of the interesting deep-dive ones. Britt, I'm not going to lie. Instagram names are wild. Yeah. Y'all got to simplify those.

Someone said, I hope people don't choose to get married just because of celebrity did. So true. Someone said, yes, especially with her more hate men, single forever by choice fans. So I see that. True. Ashley Page Burke made a really good point. She goes, no, because it's not women who propose, but it'll make them want to be

engaged. and sensibly Sarah said, as a wedding vendor, I hope so. You know what, Sarah? Me too, for your sake. That's really interesting. I honestly, I didn't think of that when I asked the question. I was like, yeah, I guess it isn't women who proposed, but also to the point of some of our other respondees, respondents.

I don't know what it is. Yeah, sorry. Rainfog. I think that's right. The hate men, single forever. Yeah, that mantra. It's just maybe they'll open their hearts to it a little bit more. and so that she's happy.

So hopefully that's what happens. The expectations will change and the men might shift for that. I did see some TikToks of like 35 plus year old women kind of being like, no, we lost our last soldier. Like there was hope for us, but now we have to get married. We have to get married. And I'm like, it's not a bad thing. My favorite part of all of that last week was gaylers, which is people who genuinely

think Taylor Swift is gay. Having just like a mental breakdown in there like my whole worldview shattered maybe she actually isn't gay. I feel like I've been lied to or like I've been lying to myself. You lied to yourself. The weirdest faction of the fandom, to be honest. I didn't know that existed. Definitely.

I'm not really in that. You're not missing anything. You know what? I hope though. I really do hope that women realize that Taylor Swift lover, I know people hate her, but her preaching about singleness and hating all men is just so not conducive to society. And like we need to bring those fertility rates up. So those birth rates and marriage rates up.

And so it's okay. It's okay to get married. It's okay to be happy, actually. You don't have to be single forever. Single forever. She obviously wanted love or otherwise she wouldn't have been dating. Exactly. Honestly, I think her dysography is a testament to her undying and her just commitment to finding love.

She's been knocked down for 20 years and she finally found love. And she finally found the person who will marry her and who she wants to marry. I think that's actually really cute. It is cute. I honestly love them together. They're adorable. I can't love it. Congrats.

Congrats. Kailor, congrats Morgan. Thank you. So many congrats. And the question of the week, this week, we want to know if you fell for any of the left's craziness over President Trump's health. Because like Elise, did you get trapped? To fall for the AI. Did you fall for the AI?

We want to hear you guys sound off. It's never too young to fall for the AI've learned. It's getting harder and harder to figure out the difference. Gets us all. It gets us all. Well, y'all have a great rest of your week. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss out on brand new episodes of problematic women every single Saturday. You can find us on the daily signal YouTube on any podcast platform that you listen to. Just search for problematic women. And also make sure that you're following problematic women on Instagram. So you never miss out on clips from the show, shorts, unique content. And if you DM us, well, in all likelihood, I think they're been pretty good in inconsistency.

I'm out DMing you guys back. I feel like we haven't missed any. So hold us accountable on that. Thank you so much for joining us today, Pam. It was so much fun having you. We loved having you on the show. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

This is great. All right. Have a great rest of y'all's week and weekend. Good lady.