The Daily Signal - The Daily Signal Presents “The “Signal Sitdown - Former BLS Nominee EJ Antoni Tells All About His Nomination Fight

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Starting point is 00:00:24 Get the yes you've been waiting for at Capital One.ca.ca. slash yes. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, Bradley Devlin here, politics editor of The Daily Signal, and I'm excited to share this episode of my show with the Daily Signal, called The Signal Sitdown, with you. The Signal Sitdown is one of the Daily Signal's other podcasts, and each show I bring you inside the biggest battles in Washington, D.C., with some of the biggest names in politics. So if you like what you hear today, make sure you subscribe to the Signal Sitdown for weekly episodes. We'll see you there. At Desjardin, we speak business.

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Starting point is 00:01:27 Grover Cleveland went a bunch of his, basically like the equivalent of like his press court, we're trying to spin some things in the news to help them get reelected. You know, they were basically trying to lie. And he stopped them and he said, no matter what, first things first, tell the truth. I will say to you, that is almost word for word what the president told me in the Oval Office. He said, I tell everybody, always tell the truth. I think in a lot of ways there are many, many Republicans in Congress who, who, again, they got the R behind their name,

Starting point is 00:02:00 but they're not on board with the president's agenda. Thank you so much for tuning into the Signal Sitdown, but before we get to the interview, we'd love it if you'd hit that like and subscribe button on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you may be joining us. And please remember to give us a five-star review because we love your feedback. Remember, it's your government,

Starting point is 00:02:27 and together we'll expose how it really works and how to affect real change. Without further ado, here's the interview. Please welcome up, E.J. and Tony. Thank you, sure. It's good to see you, it's bad to see you. Are we social distance? No, you can sit here.

Starting point is 00:02:47 It's okay. I don't bite. June's over. So, yesterday, we got the news that your nomination was going to be pulled back. His nomination was going to be pulled back to be the head of the BLS. And if you've ever seen a big job revision, number, it's because BLS isn't that great at its job. Tell us a little bit about what happened.

Starting point is 00:03:22 Sure, sure. You're absolutely right. Bureau of Labor Statistics has really struggled for several years now. I know a lot of people have tried to paint this as if it's like a Trump phenomenon or something, which is just laughable because the problems were starting the surface really many, many years ago with things like people just not responding to government surveys anymore. Those response rates have been steadily trending down. And as that happens, the data gets more and more unreliable

Starting point is 00:03:51 because you're just not hearing back from enough people. And it's gotten to the point today, it's so bad, where you're only surveying to start with about 2% of businesses each month. And then when 50% of them or more don't respond, that means you're only actually hearing from less than 1% of American businesses and you're trying to guess what the other 99 are doing. So, of course, you're going to have a lot of mistakes when you do stuff like that. Sounds like polling.

Starting point is 00:04:17 Even worse, if you can imagine it. And that's how you end up with these massive jobs revisions. Literally, just last month, we got the biggest jobs revision ever where they said over a 12-month period, we overestimated the number of jobs by 911,000. So that literally wiped out half of the jobs. growth in what was more or less Biden's last year of office. So it just goes to show you, and by the way, that's on top of the monthly revisions, which

Starting point is 00:04:48 already knocked those numbers down a peg or two. So it just goes to show you there are serious problems at the agency. That's just one of many examples where they keep making these catastrophic errors, and it's got to be fixed. And what's really frustrating for a lot of us in the data space is the fact that the problems have been evident for a really long time. It wasn't like it was just me calling it out, to be clear. Every major Wall Street bank, whether it's an investment or a commercial bank, since COVID, has noted, these numbers are getting increasingly unreliable.

Starting point is 00:05:21 And something's got to be done to fix it. And it's pretty clear what we need to do and what can be done to fix it. But you've got to get somebody in there in the leadership who's willing to make those changes. One of the big myths that has been floating around publications like Politico, Punchbowl, and other liberal outlets is that President Trump fired the former leader of the BLS because he was just upset at the jobs report. But this seems like a track record of poor data and poor statistics. And so you were nominated to write that system. You talked about the problems, but what type of solutions should conservatives be thinking about to correct this data? Good, good question.

Starting point is 00:06:13 Yeah, I think it's absolutely silly, this idea that the president was mad that the numbers were bad, so he fired the commissioner and everything. I mean, it's just it's absolute nonsense, quite frankly. The fact is, and again, long before President Trump even got to his second term, This goes back to Biden. It was clear there were problems with the data that they were becoming unreliable. And it's not just as if we're overestimating one month, underestimating another month, and we're constantly seeing the jobs numbers bounce around. When you're consistently making the same errors over and over again, right,

Starting point is 00:06:47 it's that definition of insanity. You do the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. Come on. So I think it's very, very obvious that the issue was the lack of accuracy, the lack of integrity in those numbers. And if the leadership is not willing to address the problem, if they're not willing to do anything about it, then they've got to go and you need to replace them

Starting point is 00:07:09 with somebody who is willing to address the problem, right? And so what are some of the things that we can do to fix it? A big problem that we're seeing right now is just the fact that, let's be honest, government is bad at basically everything it does, right? The private sector is much better. and there are times when a public-private partnership is actually very, very effective. In other words, when the public sector and private sector work together,

Starting point is 00:07:35 when private businesses and government agencies are working hand and glove. And we actually already do this at BLS, and it's very, very successful. Have any of you guys ever used the GasBuddy app on your phone to find, like, the lowest gas prices by you? I guarantee they did. I assume in California you guys do because it's, you know, It's so depressing how much you have to pay for gas. You want to save any time you can.

Starting point is 00:08:00 Anyway, the GasBuddy app is actually where we get most of our gasoline price data for what's called the Consumer Price Index, which is the marquee inflation report that comes out every month produced by BLS. Sorry, I know this is a lot of acronyms. It's like the military. But basically, what happens is literally millions of Americans are on that app, constantly correcting those price data in real time, and it provides a much more accurate survey than the old-fashioned way the BLS does it, where they literally, I mean, this shows you how old the methodology

Starting point is 00:08:35 is. They send out secret shoppers three times a month, once towards the beginning, once towards the middle, once at the end, to walk through like every grocery store, for example, and just walk up and down the aisles, writing down the price of everything they see. I mean, this is expensive, it's error-prone, it's time-consuming, it's slow. And look at what happened when they started using the GasBuddy app to supplement all that price data. The data got more accurate, consistently so. It's cheaper. I mean, this is what you need to do.

Starting point is 00:09:07 You have major retailers like Walmart, like Amazon, who have the price of just about everything at our fingertips. And Bradley, that's the thing I think we've got to drive home for folks. The numbers are already out there. It's just a matter of we need to get them inserted into the spreadsheet. That's literally it. That's where the problem is when it comes with something like the CPI data. And that's where it'd be great to see partnerships, those public-private partnerships with businesses like Amazon or like Walmart.

Starting point is 00:09:38 It could be any others. They're just really big retailers in the brick-and-mortar and the e-retail space. That's why I throw them out there. But it'd be great to get partnerships with them so that we can get that data in and do it constantly, not just three times a month. I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with the whole phenomenon of dynamic pricing, but this is where businesses will change the price of something based on demand. So some fast food stores do this now where if you're during peak hours like the middle of the

Starting point is 00:10:06 lunch hour, the middle of the dinner hour, you know, Wendy's will charge you more for not a Whopper, I don't know, what do they call a burger at Wednesdays? Dave's single, I believe. Okay. Or a triple with bacon and cheese. Whatever the burger is at Wop. So you can get that price info then from Wendy's. Constantly.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Because what happens if your secret shopper walks into that Wendy's, and depending on the time of day, they get one price, one month, and then the next month, even though the store hasn't adjusted their prices, because they went in during a different time of day, that dynamic pricing gave them a higher or lower price. See, these are the kinds of things that the bureaucracy here in D.C. doesn't stop to think about. They are stuck in a 19th century way of doing it. doing things, and we need to bring the Bureau into the 21st century.

Starting point is 00:10:59 You need to be not just addressing existing problems, problems that have been around for literally years, but you need to be thinking about what's the next problem that's coming down the pike. And those private-public partnerships, we can extend into the jobs reports as well. It's not just the inflation report, but that monthly jobs report, which would have been coming out Friday, but now we're not going to get it because of the government shutdown. But that's okay, and the numbers were basically worthless anyway. There's kind of a random number generator at this point. But think about it.

Starting point is 00:11:28 You have all of these private payroll companies, whether it's ADP is a really big one. Paychecks is another one that's P-H-I-I-C-H-E-X. See, some of you already were spelling it out already because you probably work with that company. They pretty much exclusively do small businesses, and they do a lot of them. That's a group that is horrifically underrepresented in these government surveys. And so it'd be wonderful to partner with a company like that, which again already has the payroll data that the government is trying to get. They have it because the small business is paying them to do that payroll processing.

Starting point is 00:12:08 Contract with a firm like that so that they can send in all of their raw data every single month. And then you can process it. And now you have a huge sample instead of trying to just deal with less than 1% of businesses. This is all the low-hanging fruit. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of other things we need to do at the Bureau, and I'm happy to talk about those too, but this is just some of the low-hanging fruit that could be fixed relatively easy and relatively cheaply as well that would give us a far superior product in terms of these jobs reports or these inflation reports.

Starting point is 00:12:41 And that's what the American people deserve. Enough of this nonsensical garbage where, again, it resembles a random number generator. Yeah, and I mean, if I'm a senator from the Republican Party and I meet with you and you lay out that vision, I mean, I'm convinced I'm voting for your confirmation. Nomination gets pulled last night. You've been at this for a few months now. I mean, what happened?

Starting point is 00:13:07 I mean, what type of relationships did you cultivate with people on the Senate side? What type of appetite do they have for change and going forward with a vision like this? I mean, what happened? I'm convinced. It was a really interesting experience. I met with some really great folks. There are a lot of senators who were incredibly enthusiastic about these issues,

Starting point is 00:13:29 in part because we all, as consumers of this data on the individual level, we look at this stuff as very important because it informs a lot of our own decisions on an individual level. But if you're a senator, you have not only that aspect to think about, But you also have to think about it from a policy perspective. These people are trying to make policy in large part based on this data. I mean, imagine the Federal Reserve. They're trying to set interest rates for the entire economy based on those two marquee reports. The jobs report and the inflation report, and both of them are frankly terrible.

Starting point is 00:14:04 Right? So if you're a senator, again, you have an even greater interest, I think, than the average individual. Because not only does it affect you personally, it affects you internally, it affects you, in terms. of your job, your ability to set policy. How on earth can you judge the results of your policies if the data by which you're using to measure those results is unreliable? You know, the BLS is supposed to be putting out yardsticks that are 36 inches. One month or 35, the next they're 42, the next they're 23. You can't measure anything if every one of your yard sticks differs in length. So it was incredibly encouraging to see a lot of senators who were very, very, very,

Starting point is 00:14:45 enthusiastic about, number one, hearing what's wrong, getting like really getting specifics, they all know something's wrong, right? You know something is wrong when the jobs numbers are constantly getting revised down. You know something is wrong when you get the biggest annual change to jobs numbers in history, the biggest annual revision. Something's obviously wrong. But to have then somebody explained to you, okay, here are all of the different things that are wrong. Here's what's wrong in how we collect the data. Here's what's wrong in how we process the data. I mean, you could see some of these senators were actually genuinely excited because once you identify the problem, now you can come up with a solution to fix it. And they were also, I think, equally enthusiastic to hear about solutions, how we can fix these problems and make the situation better for the American people.

Starting point is 00:15:31 And again, for them, too, as senators. So by and large, it was a very good reception. Unfortunately, you know, not everybody was interested. Not everybody was interested. And that means that there are folks who run around with an R next to their name who aren't acting on the conservative agenda, who aren't acting on the president's agenda. And for those of us who live and work here, I mean, that is a hard pill to swallow every day of the week, it seems. Yeah, absolutely. And that's a very good way to put it, Bradley, that there are people with the R after the name, and it doesn't really mean what you think it means.

Starting point is 00:16:13 Right? And what it, oh, anybody can read in the press. Don't worry about it. It's all out there. I mean, I think it was in the reports last night. The usual suspects. Yeah. And again, I think that's just a really good way to put it.

Starting point is 00:16:33 That, you know, in a lot of ways, Trump reminds me of Grover Cleveland, not just because Cleveland is the only other president to win non-consecutive terms. But even if you look at a lot of the issues that got Cleveland elected to his second term, in a lot of ways they mirror the issues that have gotten Trump elected for his second term. And despite a lot of what is said about the president, he is, well, let me put it this way. There are a lot of accusations that he's a liar and everything else. He's a remarkably honest individual. Think back to that debate he had with Hillary Clinton when he was asked, you know, Mr. President,

Starting point is 00:17:13 If you say the system is rigged, like what evidence do you have? And do you remember what his response was? Well, I know it's rigged because I use it. Right? I take all of these tax deductions that Hillary put in for her donors. And I get to take them too. And yeah, we should get rid of them, but as long as they're there, I'm going to use them. Like, he was completely honest about it, right?

Starting point is 00:17:35 Grover Cleveland, when a bunch of his, basically like the equivalent of, like, his press court. We're trying to spin some things in the news to help them get reelected. And they were basically trying to lie. And he stopped them and he said, no matter what, first things first, tell the truth. And I will say to you, that is almost word for word what the president told me in the Oval Office. And he said, not like just directed specifically at me, but he said, I tell everybody, always tell the truth. and that really that just once again

Starting point is 00:18:18 really reminded me I'm like oh my gosh it's like Grover Cleveland sitting right in front of me right so look at the end of the day there are a lot of I don't know what you want to call them

Starting point is 00:18:31 Old Guard establishment Republicans I'm not sure part of me really hates affixing labels to these things because they never quite fit you know I feel like it's always kind of forced but I think

Starting point is 00:18:43 in a lot of ways, there are many, many Republicans in Congress who, again, they got the R behind their name, but they're not on board with the president's agenda. They are stuck in a very old way of thinking that doesn't really represent, I think, what Republican voters sent the president here, especially this time around, to do. And it's not as if it's close, right? The president wins the electoral college by a wide margin, every single swing state, and the popular vote, which hasn't happened for a Republican in an extremely long time. So clearly, there's a clear majority, I should say, of Americans who are behind him and behind his agenda. And unfortunately, again, you have plenty of these folks who are just not willing to get with the program. They do

Starting point is 00:19:32 not support it because I think it's just not their agenda. It's not what they're about. The party is changing. And this is why, sorry, to make a long story endless, this is why I brought up Grover Cleveland. Cleveland helped preside over the end of the Democrat Party, at least what it was at the time. He was the last of the Old Guard Democrats. After him, you didn't get another Democrat elected until Woodrow Wilson, and he was no longer the same kind of Democrat. He was a progressive, which was something totally new. And that's what the Democrats still are today. They're very much in the Woodrow Wilson mold. And I feel like we're kind of in a sense. similar moment right now with Trump, where he is in a lot of ways transforming the Republican Party

Starting point is 00:20:14 in a way that by the time he's done with it, I think it will be very, very different, maybe not unrecognizable. That's probably too far. But it will be extremely different from what it was in 2016 when he won the first time. Yeah, it's interesting. You bring that up because Woodrow Wilson often wrote about, before he ran for president, often wrote about how progressivism and the science of administration and politics was a foreign concept. It was a foreign science that he had to Americanize

Starting point is 00:20:44 to bring it to the United States. And it's the inverse happening here. Donald Trump is reasserting an American science in American politics right now. E.J., to wrap us up, back here, chief economist at the Heritage Foundation, How is your work going to continue on these issues? Pick up exactly where I left off, and that's it.

Starting point is 00:21:11 You know, it is very much, it's not quite, you know, next man up, since it's the same man, sorry. But again, it's just, it's picking up right where I left off. The part of the reason why the president asked me to serve initially in this role was the fact that I had, been calling out all of these problems. I mean, really since, it's been three years now. It's been, it was since 2022. Back in February, I actually had publicly predicted the huge, the 900 plus thousand downward revision we got to the jobs numbers last month. So, and again, I, you know, it's not like I was the only one. I'm not a, I'm not a savant here. But I was one of the few people willing to go out in public and say, hey, guys, watch out for this. And so I think

Starting point is 00:21:58 calling out the problems, but also not just calling them out, but then proposing solutions, that's what got me into this mess. But it's what I'm going to continue doing because I think it's what we need. You know, the BLS really needs to be fixed, and I'm going to continue to work towards fixing it at the end of the day. I will continue to advocate for the kinds of public policies that have made states like Texas and Florida a haven for folks leaving California. And I'll continue to fight against the policies that have turned California into the public policy basket case that it is, sorry. And same thing with New York, Illinois, all those different places. It's not, at the end of the day, it's not even really about dollars and cents.

Starting point is 00:22:43 It truly isn't. At the end of the day, it's about people's lives. It's about the fact today that for the first time since the 1930s, for those of you playing along in home, that was the Great Depression, for the first time since the 1930s, we have a generation of young Americans who think they will be worse off than their parents were, who think they will have a lower standard of living than their parents did. That is unacceptable in the United States of America. What got us into that mess is failed public policy. We have, again, if you look at young people today, a generation of people who think they're never going to be able to afford to have kids. Not that they don't necessarily want to have kids, but that they don't think it's affordable.

Starting point is 00:23:24 They don't think it'll ever be affordable to own their own home until one of their parents sadly dies and leaves them with one of those assets. We have shockingly, in just four years under Biden, turn this country into exactly the opposite of what America should be, where anybody can lift themselves up. Instead, it's become a generational wealth state. That's disgusting. That's the antithesis of what America should be. Now, it's nice to see we're already back on track, right? under Biden, for example, what the average American could buy with his or her weekly paycheck from January of 21 to January of 25, that fell about 4%.

Starting point is 00:24:03 So even though their wages went up pretty dramatically over those four years, what you could buy went down because inflation outpaced wage growth so much. Under Trump, we've actually seen exactly the opposite. In less than a year, we're already up 1%. Now, that hasn't obviously wiped out all of the losses under Biden, so we still have a long way to go. But it's amazing how correcting those public policy mistakes can get you back on the right track so quickly. And the real impact that that has on people's lives. Yes, it's nice to make more money so you can afford more toys and everything, right?

Starting point is 00:24:40 So you can afford a nicer car or a vacation home or whatever. Yes, that's nice. But what's really, really important is that the average Joe cannot just have those luxuries but can have the necessities. Again, to do things like raise a family, that's what's much more important. And that's, I think, really what has me so passionate about all these issues. And what gives me that, I don't know, kind of lights the fire, so to speak, to get up every day and to do this. Aside from the fact that I just enjoy it, because I'm a nerd or whatever. But it just, there are real consequences to these decisions.

Starting point is 00:25:18 There are real consequences to these policies. and they're not measured in dollars and cents. They're literally very often measured in lives. Continue to tell the truth, and that was advice that the president gave you, and he didn't just mean that in the context of a nomination, right? Keep telling the truth because lying is bad for your soul. E.J. Antony, thank you for coming on.

Starting point is 00:25:40 Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning into the Signal Sitdown. Before you go, be sure to hit like and subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you may be joining us. And please remember to give us a five-star review. We not only love your feedback, but it really does help the show. Remember, it's your government, and together we'll expose how it really works. See you next time.

The Daily Signal - The Daily Signal Presents “The “Signal Sitdown - Former BLS Nominee EJ Antoni Tells All About His Nomination Fight

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