The Daily Signal - 'The Diversity We Have Is Our Strength,' Says Pastor Miles McPherson

Episode Date: June 15, 2020

America needs a way forward after the unjust killing of George Floyd. Pastor Miles McPherson, author of "The Third Option: Hope for a Racially Divided Nation," joins the podcast to share his personal story of experiencing racism and how we can all move past the us versus them mentality to build relationships with those who look different from ourselves. Also on today show, we read your letters to the editor and share a good news story about daily prayer and worship gatherings that are taking place at the site of George Floyd’s death. Learn more about Pastor Miles McPherson and buy his book here. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Monday, June 15th. I'm Robert Louis. And I'm Virginia Allen. On today's show, we talk with Pastor Miles McPherson, pastor of the Rock Church in San Diego, California, and author of the Third Option, hope for a racially divided nation. McPherson shares how his own experiences of racism

and how we can actively seek unity as a society that so often finds itself divided. We also share your letters to the editor and a good news story about daily prayer and worship gatherings that are taking place at the site of George Floyd's death. Rob, before we jump into today's show, I want to ask you for an update from the Heritage Foundation's National Coronavirus Recovery Commission. You are the spokesman for the commission, and you all have now released recommendations for all five phases. You've also released an interactive map showing states across America that have actually implemented some of those key recommendations. Can you tell us a little bit about where the commission's work is right now?

Absolutely. Today is a big day for the commission. In fact, we're having an event that all of our listeners are invited to attend, either live or after the fact if they're unable to join us. And it's taking place this afternoon, Monday, June 15th, at 3 p.m. We're going to have a keynote address from Secretary of Labor, Eugene Scalia, as well as remarks from our chairman, K. K. K. Coles James, who also as the president of the Heritage Foundation.

And Virginia, let me tell you that the work of the commission over the past couple of months has just been tremendous. You mentioned a couple of the things right there with the map, really analyzing how the states are performing, the 265 recommendations to help us reopen America. And today's event will feature some of the things that you as an individual can do to make sure that your contribution is having a positive effect

as we move through this recovery. It's not easy, Virginia, but we think that we're heading in the right direction. Yeah, no, I was really looking forward to the event today, Rob. I think it's going to be just really tremendous to see all the work that you all have done. And we're so thankful for K. Coles, James and the other 17 commissioners who have played such a key role. Virginia, if our listeners would like to tune in, all they have to do is go to coronavirus commission.com. Again, it's coronavirus commission.com, and they can get all the information for today's event. Okay, let's start today's show.

I am joined by Miles McPherson, pastor of the Rock Church in San Diego, California, author of The Third Option, Hope for a Racially Divided Nation, and a former NFL football player. Pastor Miles, thanks for being here. It is my pleasure. How are y'all doing today? We are doing well. We're really excited to chat with you.

You joined the Daily Signal podcast about a year ago, and you talked about your book, The Third Option, hope for a racially divided nation. And it's really a joy having you back on today because we are in need of some of that hope right now. Yes. We sure are. So I want to begin just by, for those who might not be familiar with your book,

just give me a little bit of a summary. The third option, you said that you wrote it because we're kind of, we grow up and we're trained to think in this us versus them mentality, but you say, no, there's actually another way to think. What is that third option? Correct. You know, if you look on the news and you can just steal it, you have to, it's us first them, you have to pick one side against another, against another.

You're either for or against Black Lives. You're either four against the police or four or against defunding the police. And there's so much division in the world. The third option is that we honor what we have in common. So instead of being me against you, if we can join together and focus, acknowledge, and a focus on what we have in common. We have more similarities than differences. All of us bleed red.

All of us love family, food, fun, sleep, and we're all made in the image of God. And so the numbers of ways that, the numbers of things that we share in common far outweigh our differences. Even when George Floyd was killed, the reason we're seeing protest is because all of us, black, white, Hispanic, Asian have pain. our heart. We share that in common and we share in common that what was done to him was wrong. And so if we can join forces and focus on those things, then we can walk in hope and actually experience some healing. You do such a good job in your book of explaining some of your own experiences as a kid facing racism from both the black and white community. Could you

take a minute and just share a little bit of your own story? Yeah, you know, all my grandparents are from Jamaica, two black grandfathers, one white grandmother, and one half Chinese black grandmother. So I have light brown skin. And so when I went to school in my white neighborhood, in the white neighborhood near me, and when I grew up, it was segregated. So I went to school in the neighborhood that was 100% white. And so I got harassed there because I wasn't white. And then I got harassed because I wasn't black enough. But, and that's where I lived. So there was always, I always felt a little bit like an outsider. But when I went home, I had the United Nations in my house. And then when we played football, black and white came together and we also had unity on the football field.

So that's kind of where I got to meet and get to see unity and actually participate in unity was on the football field in addition to my house. But yeah, I've experienced, listen, racism is sin. And we all have some kind of bias towards people. And that applies to everybody on the planet. And so every country is different. and we're just now experiencing one expression of it here in the United States. Yeah. Now, I think sometimes when we hear stories like yours, there's this temptation,

specifically in the white community, of which I'm a part of, to say, okay, I'm not going to see color. But you point out that this is, it's really not helpful, and it's actually dishonoring a huge part of who a person is. So how can we actually see color in a way that adds honor to an individual? who looks different from us. That's a good question. You know, one of the ways to honor the similarities that we have

is to acknowledge that we have blind spots. And a blind spot is being blind to what you are blind to. You don't even know you don't know. It's the gap between your intent of what you say or do and the impact of what you say or do. And so if someone says, I don't see color, their intent is to build a bridge or to say, I'm not going to judge you.

But the impact can be to the person of color is negative because you just told that person you don't see them. And you don't see them for what they are. I remember the first time someone told me that they didn't see color, my color. I thought they had an eye stigmatism. And so they said, no, no, no, we just don't see your color. And I was like, so you see red, blue, and green, but you don't see my color. So how do you know I have a color you don't see if you don't see it?

And what they didn't realize is that they were saying to me, Because I even asked them, I said, do you see me as white? And they didn't know what to say. And it says, because I'm not white. And my experience is not white. So when you say you don't see what I am, you are also ignoring the burden that comes with my color, which means you don't want to deal and address or acknowledge my burden, which means how can you love me that? And how can you really care for me if you're willing to ignore and deliberately ignore any pain that I have? And so saying you don't see color, I get the intent.

But the impact can be negative. So it's better to say, no, I see what you are because God made you that way and you're beautiful. There's nothing wrong with that. It's like when someone gets a tan in Hawaii, they want to show it off. So when you get a tan in Hawaii, you want to celebrate. But when you get a tan in the womb, you want to invalidate. And so it's kind of hypocritical to say, I'm going to go to Hawaii and get a tan so everybody can see my brown. But when someone's born brown, we say we don't see it.

And so it's a blind spot. So I think people should say, I see what you are. I respect what you are. I want to learn about who you are. And that's how we grow in honor and respect. So in that same vein of learning about others and other people's experiences, you talk about having race consultations instead of just conversations. What do you mean by that?

Well, because you see color, every person you talk to, you're having a race conversation. Even when you look in the mirror, if you're white, you know you're talking to a white person. If you're black, you know you're talking to a black person. And so whoever you have a conversation with, you're aware who you're talking to. And so, but instead of, so therefore, every time you see someone, even before you have a say anything to them, in your mind, you're saying that's an Asian person, that's a what, and you may be wrong, but you're guessing. And you're also, because of your background, your social narrative, which we all have, which is the story that shapes how we see the world, based on all the information we've received as a kid, growing up, we have opinions. And those opinions speak to us when we see someone. What we need to do is take those opinions, which are the race conversation, and suspend them until we get to know the person and let the person self-disclose to us who they are.

That's called a race consultation. I am letting you show me who you are, and I'm letting you expand and challenge my preconceived ideas about who you are. So if I see someone that's like the lady in New York City who had the dog off the leash, and the black man came and said, can you put the dog on the leash? And she freaked out and called the police and said, African-American man is threatening my life.

And all he was doing was asking her to put a dog on the leash. And he was videotaping this. Well, what she saw was a black man and she got scared because what was in her head. But if she would just ask him, if she would just obey the rules, to put a dog on a leash, it wouldn't have been a problem. But if she would have said, tell me about yourself.

He would have said, well, I'm a Harvard grad. which is what he was. But she didn't have that consultation. She didn't give him the chance to reveal to her who he was. She just judged him because of what was in her head. So instead of us doing that with people, we need to give people opportunities to reveal who they are. And how do we keep that going?

Because I think in moments like these, there's so much energy and there's passion, and we want to build those bridges. But several months from now, a year from now, we need to keep these consultations going. How do we, how do we do that? Well, I think we have to walk. You know, one of the things that we all have in common is that we're all on a journey and we're all learning.

We will learn to the day we die. If we're faithful to being human, we will learn about ourselves, we will learn about other people. And if we choose to give people the respect that they are learning to and we walk together and learn together in relationship. This is not like people who don't want to deal with it, just want a quick fix. I did my thing. You know, I said hi.

I said I don't see color. So now I can go about my business. Well, it's not that simple. It's more about building relationships, loving, honest relationships with people who don't look like you and get to know each other and giving each other opportunity to be wrong and learn and say dumb things. Because, you know, I have a bunch of friends of all national.

and we say all kinds of dumb things to each other and we learn and we grow and you know we forgive and But it's all based on love. So it's it's it's a whole lot of room for mistakes and and questions and We have to have a culture where we can do that But I would say to people listen develop relationships with people and then develop relations with their friends and their friends and their friends and and don't ever assume you have arrived just be a learner and be humble about it And that's something that your church is very, very passionate about and focused on. How have you all cultivated that in an ongoing way of bringing people together from different backgrounds? Yeah, our church is, you know, we have tens of thousands of people in our church from more nationalities than I know. San Diego is very diverse.

SDRock.com. You can watch our services at sdoroc.com. But, you know, we have been diverse for 20 years ever since day one. And we worship together. We serve the city together. We pray together. We counsel and cry together. So we do life together.

And because we do life together, you get to know people. And then you get to realize, wait a minute. The diversity we have is our strength. And there, you know, we have. I did a sermon in Spanish a couple of years ago, and in preparation, I got a bunch of Spanish speakers together so I could practice. And we have 15 Spanish-speaking nations represented. That's just Spanish.

Wow. And so because we do life together, we get to know each other and learn from each other. And as you do that, you realize, wow, people are amazing. So it's not like I have to feel like I'm better than you or you're not as good as me. I have something to learn from you. And that when you have the experience of learning from different kinds of people all the time, which is what happens when you come to our church, you're always around different people. And so when that becomes your norm, you get more comfortable with that.

And you get more comfortable with the fact that you don't have to know everything, that you don't have to be the superior one or the inferior one. You get to be one of the people. And so we just do life together. And that's what I go back to my relationship. You know, if you build relationships with people. And on my social media, I'm always talking about these kinds of things. And if someone wants to follow me at Miles McPherson on Instagram and all the thing.

At Milesley-Fierson, I'm always posting stuff. So I'm always talking about color and race and educating people and also showing that you can do that and be comfortable. It doesn't have to be a stressful, fearful thing that I'm comfortable in my ethnicity. and people in our church are comfortable in the ethnicity. It's not like, you know, if you say that person's white or that person's black, that's a racist thing. It's just a fact. If you say it respectfully and honorably.

Well, and the media, you mentioned social media, the media does play a big role, I think, in how we often see race, whether that's social media or movies or TV. But how can we train ourselves to, you know, when we kind of see those portrayals, recognize when maybe it is racist and choose to not agree with inaccurate portrayals that we're seeing. You know, it's all about numbers.

I'm a numbers guy. Number one is the number of unity. Number two is the number of division. And when you hear stuff, if it's causing a number two, in other words, me against you, or if it's creating distance or dissension, that's division. If it's creating unity, it's love. And so how you say things, what you say, how other people say things, if it is uplifting and life-giving and unifying, it's not racism. If it's degrading and demeaning and causing division, well, then that's the negative.

And so what we always want to do is think, okay, how do I turn that comment into a positive? How do I turn that experience into a positive? How do I see the positive in that person? That's why my book, The Third Option, helps people see God in people. And so I would encourage people go to Amazon, go to Miles and Fearson.com, and get the book The Third Option. Every chapter has three questions at the end, so you can actually go through a discussion guide and go through discussions and talk with people.

It has things you can do in the community. practice. Like I have a chapter where I challenge people to, a few white people to go to a neighborhood where they're the only white person. Because black people are always around, they're always a minority. And but white people are rarely the minority. So you have to go to a place where you're the only white person. And then you can feel like, oh, this is what it feels like to be the other. And then you can got to get it opportunity. I did it with a guy. And even in my book, he wrote his testimony about what he felt. And he was telling us what people were thinking in their head. And I was wondering, how do you know what people were thinking in your head? That's what he was

feeling. But it's not necessarily fact. Now he had a taste of what it means to be a minority. So I was just want to encourage people to get the book, get the third option, read it, do it, and live it, and go through it with somebody who is different than you. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll be sure to put the link for the book in today's show notes because it is. It's so, relevant and Pastor Miles, your story is so inspirational, everything from your time in the NFL and growing up to becoming a pastor and leading such a diverse congregation. It's so relevant. Before I let you go, I just want to ask you, what is the prayer that you're praying over a country right now and how are you encouraging your congregation to pray?

Very good. Jesus said, John said, John said, I must decontory. increase and Jesus must increase. If all of us would just say, God, I need to decrease. This can't be about me. It's got to be about you. And everybody wants to be defensive and be right over somebody else. That's us first then. But if we all humbled our knee before God and say, Lord, I just want to decrease. And I want you to be elevated in my life, John 330. That's what I would encourage people. to do and just to humble themselves before God because, you know, none of us are right. You know, yes, there should be justice. That's correct. George Floyd should not have been killed. That's correct. But justice is a God thing. And we, the justice that God is going to render is way better than the justice of man. You know, those cops can, they can go to jail for the rest of the life.

God has a better justice than that. He wants to change all of our hearts so it doesn't happen again. And so I would encourage people just to bow before God and surrender their life to him. Pastor Miles, thank you so much. We really appreciate your time today. Our top priority at the Daily Signal is to ensure that you have the most accurate information regarding COVID-19. Here's an important message from the White House. We are dealing with an unprecedented in public health crisis.

with coronavirus, otherwise known as COVID-19. We're working around the clock to develop treatments and vaccines to combat the disease. We have taken an unprecedented all of government and all of America approach to combat the COVID-19 outbreak. FDA is working around the clock to help innovators around the country develop medical products for Americans and providers. Thanks for sending us your letters to the editor. Each Monday we feature our favorites on this show.

who's up first. In response to Rachel Del Judas and I's article entitled, In the wake of George Floyd's death, what these black leaders think should happen. Harold Harmon from Atlanta, Georgia, writes, Dear Daily Signal, I found your article to be excellent, a fine piece of journalism. I am a 79-year-old white man who has lived through the dark days of segregation and supported the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s. I am saddened by what I see today and feel that Dr. King would be devastating, devastated by the madness we see.

And in response to Virginia and Lauren Evans' podcast interview with Heritage Foundation President, Kay Coles James, entitled, Conservatives should be leading the civil rights movement. Dennis Evans writes, Dear Daily Signal, just a brief note of appreciation for your interview with Mrs. James. I sincerely enjoy the information given by Mrs. James. It was both enlightening and refreshing. I agree with Mrs. James. The conservative movement should be more vocal in leading the way of by example and precept in utilizing the tools our founders gave us to overcome racism and other ills within our society. Your letter could be featured on next week's show. So send us an email at Letters at DailySignal.com.

Are you looking for quick conservative policy solutions to current issues? Sign up for Heritage's weekly newsletter, The Agenda. In the Agenda, you will learn what issues Heritage Scholars on Capitol Hill are working on, what position conservatives are taking, and links to our in-depth research. The agenda also provides information on important events happening here at Heritage that you can watch online, as well as media interviews from our experts. Sign up for the agenda on heritage.org today. Virginia, you have a good news story to share with us today. Over to you. Thanks so much, Rob. The site of George Floyd's death in Minneapolis, Minnesota has now become the location for daily prayer and worship gatherings.

Youth with a Mission, a global missions group, World Outreach Church, a local church in Minneapolis, and circuit riders, a missions group based out of California, have all joined together to pray in unity for an end to racism. Christoph Ulyss, a staff member for Youth with a Mission, who has been speaking at the gatherings, said per Fox News that, we're going from pain and hatred to hope.

We're going from pain and hatred to healing and hope. As an African-American man, Ulyss said of the prayer gatherings at the site of George Floyd's death that, quote, I came here and I was broken. It affected team members differently. But those of us of color,

as we're here, we're watching the change happen through the gospel. My heart is so filled with hope. Those in the neighborhood are saying this is unprecedented unity. They're feeling an outpouring of love and hope from this nation. World outreach for Christchurch has been handed. out food and other goods to anyone in need. And if you visit their Facebook page, you'll see photos and videos of hundreds of people gathering in prayer. Baptisms are even taking place

in a large basin on the street. And pictures show gatherings of the people that are gathered in prayer with heads bowed and hands lifted in worship as blacks and whites stand together in unity and pray for the reconciliation of our nation. And Rob, you know, it doesn't necessarily surprise me that this is taking place. But the fact that it's happening at the very location where Floyd was killed is just so powerful. You know, we're hearing so much about the violence, but it's incredible to know that so many people are choosing to stand together in unity and peace and pray for our nation right now.

That's right, Virginia. It's important that we highlight stories like this because I think too often our news media focuses on the negative stories, the violent images. and thank you again for bringing us a good news story today. Yeah, no, it's definitely encouraging and important, I think, to be focusing on the positive and keeping our hopes alive. All right, well, we're going to leave it there for today. The Daily Signal podcast can be found on the Rurkissue Audio Network.

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