The Daily Signal - The End of the Rule of Law in Hong Kong? What China's New Crackdown Could Mean

Episode Date: May 27, 2020

China is proposing a "national security" law that is sparking protests across Hong Kong. Mike Gonzalez, a senior fellow at The Heritage Foundation, joins the podcast to discuss what is at stake with this proposed law, how it would effectively nullify the “one country, two systems” model between Hong Kong and China if enacted, how it would hamper Hong Kong's presence as a global financial center, and more. We also cover these stories: President Donald Trump is not pleased with California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s push for widespread mail-in voting.  Minneapolis asks the FBI investigate a police arrest that resulted in the death of a black man. Video shows a white police officer kneeling on the neck of the man, who says, “I can’t breathe.”  A widower wants Twitter to remove Trump’s tweets suggesting that his late wife was a murder victim. The Daily Signal Podcast is available on Ricochet, Apple Podcasts, Pippa, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get you and your crew to the big shows with Go Transit. Go connects to all the main concert venues like TD Coliseum in Hamilton and Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto. And Go makes it affordable with special e-ticket fares. A one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel across the network on any weekend day or holiday for just $10. And a weekday group pass offers the same weekday travel flexibility from $30 for two people and up to $60 for five. Buy yours at gotransit.com slash tickets. This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, May 27th. I'm Virginia Allen.

And I'm K. Trinko. Today, we're featuring our colleague Rachel Del Judas' interview with Mike Gonzalez, a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation. They discussed China's new attempt to curb freedoms in Hong Kong. Don't forget, if you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to leave a review or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now, onto our top news. President Trump is not pleased with Democratic California governor Gavin Newsom's push for widespread

mail-in voting. Earlier this month, Newsom announced that he plans to send a ballot to every registered California resident so that they can vote by mail in November and not risk exposure to the coronavirus at the polls. Trump has been clear in his opposition to this action, tweeting Tuesday, There is no way, zero, that mail-in ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent. Mailboxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged, and even illegally printed out and fraudulently signed. The governor of California is sending ballots to millions of people. Anyone living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there, will get one. That will be followed up with professionals telling all of these people, many of whom have never,

even thought of voting before, how and for whom to vote. This will be a raid election. No way. The Republican National Committee filed a lawsuit against Newsom on Sunday, calling the statewide mail-in-voting plan, quote, an illegal power grab. Minneapolis is requesting the FBI investigate a police arrest Monday evening that resulted in the death of a black man. Video of the arrest shows a police officer kneeling on the neck of the black man, and the black man stating, I can't breathe. Via CBS News, which obtained the video from Daniela Frazier, here's part of that encounter.

Please. Please. I can't breathe. Please, man. Please, man. Ah. In a press release, the Minneapolis police stated that the man was a suspect for forgery. and officers believed he was under the influence.

The press release states, two officers arrived and located the suspect, a male believed to be in his 40s in his car. He was ordered to step from his car. After he got out, he physically resisted officers. Officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress. Officers called for an ambulance. He was transported to Hennepin,

County Medical Center by ambulance, where he died a short time later. And here's what Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Frey, said Tuesday via K-A-R-E-11. Being black in America should not be a death sentence. For five minutes, we watched as a white officer pressed his knee into the neck of a black man. For five minutes, when you hear someone calling for help, you are supposed to help. This officer failed in the most basic human sense. What happened on Chicago in 38th, this last night is simply awful. It was traumatic, and it serves as a clear reminder of just how far we have to go.

White House Press Secretary Kayla McInay took the press by surprise last week when, during a briefing, she asked the pool why they have not been asking more questions regarding the Obama administration's role in the leak of Michael Flynn's identity, and who ultimately is responsible for launching the three-year investigation into the Trump campaign and supposed Russian collusion. Mackinay joined Fox and Friends on Fox News Tuesday morning to explain why she posed these questions to the press. But there's been a dearth of journalists asking the real questions for President Obama, the criminal leak of Michael Flynn's identity, who leaked that identity, the dossier, which was used to launch a three-year investigation into this president and spy on his campaign. Why aren't those questions being asked?

It's a journalistic malpractice not to ask those questions, and I can count on one hand, the journalists who are like Maria Bartaromo and Catherine Harage, but where is the lack of curiosity from the current press corps? There's an extreme lack of curiosity at play. A widower is asking Twitter to remove President Trump's tweets, suggesting that his late wife was a murder victim. I'm asking you to intervene in this instance because the president of the United States has taken something that does not belong to him,

the memory of my dead wife, and perverted it for perceived political gain, Timothy Clositus wrote to Twitter's CEO Jack Dorsey per USA Today. Clousatiss's late wife, Lori K. Clousatis, was a staffer for then-Congressman Joe Scarborough at the time of her death. Scarborough is now a host on MSNBC and a critic of President Trump. Trump tweeted earlier this month, When will they open a cold case on the psycho Joe Scarborough matter in Florida? Did he get away with murder? Some people think so.

Why did he leave Congress so quietly and quickly? Isn't it obvious? What's happening now? A total nut job. Trump also tweeted recently, so a young marathon runner just happened to faint in his office, hit her head on his desk and die? I would think there is a lot more to this story than that.

An affair? What about the so-called investigator? The Washington Post reports, the police said they found no signs of foul play. The medical examiner concluded her lonely death was an accident. She had fainted the result of a heart condition and hit her head on a desk. According to USA Today, Twitter said in a statement that the organization was deeply sorry about the pain these statements and the attention they are drawing are causing the family.

But the social media giant did not indicate it would delete President. Trump's tweets. Now stay tuned for Rachel Del Judas' conversation with Heritage's Mike Gonzalez, discussing the latest news coming out of Hong Kong. Here at the Daily Signal, we want to make sure you and your family are receiving the most accurate information about the coronavirus and how to prevent it. Here's an important message from U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams to parents explaining how we can talk to our children about COVID-19.

I'm a dad myself, and it's important that you talk to your kids about coronavirus because we know that sharing your feelings can help lower your fears. One of the things that I tell parents is to share age-appropriate information with your children because knowledge is power. It's also important that you reassure your children that they will be safe. And then finally, help your kids understand how they can be part of protecting their family and their community from coronavirus by washing their hands, covering their cough, and getting enough sleep. Rest is best. I am joined today on the Daily Signal podcast by Mike Gonzalez. He's a senior fellow in the Douglas and Sarah Allison Center for Foreign Policy at the Heritage Foundation.

Mike, it's great to have you on the Daily Signal podcast. Rachel, it's my pleasure to be on with you once again. Well, thank you for being with us. We love having you on. So China is proposing a new so-called national security law that is sparking protests across Hong Kong. Can we get started with talking about what is proposed in this law, what stake, and what the slot would do? Yes, I mean, so the law, which is going to be introduced in the National People's Congress,

which is the Chinese rubber stamp legislature, which does whatever the Communist Party tells it to do, will enact this law, which will take effect right away, by the way. It will not be, it will not have the Hong Kong Legislative Council, which is partly Democratic, elected will not vote on it. China will just promulgate the law in Hong Kong, breaking, you know, China's promise. But what it does is that it will ban sedition, secession, subversion, or foreign interference. These are all things that are very elastic. And they're that way for a reason, because China will be able to just drive, you know, huge MAC PLA trucks, speaking, you know, allegorically, through these labels.

So in effect, this could very well be the end of the rule of law in Hong Kong, but more important than that, it could be the end of Hong Kongers ruling themselves in most matters, and a one country-to-sist and model that China promised the world, not just Hong Kong, the world, in an international treaty, entered into the United States. United Nations that it was going to respect for Hong Kong for 50 years. Well, Mike, you of course lived in Hong Kong for a long time. What have you been hearing from folks there about this proposed law? Yes, so I lived in Hong Kong on the two British governors and two Chinese chief executives.

I lived there eight years, all told four times. I've talked to, they're very upset. The Chinese people in Hong Kong that I've talked to, Hong Kongers, By the way, just so people understand, Hong Kong is 99% Chinese. It is an international city where there are many expats living there, many Americans, many American companies based there. But it is a city that's overwhelmingly Chinese. They're very friendly to the United States. It's a completely capitalist place, free market.

It's a, it's succeeded because it practices free market. It's like I used to call it a capitalist theme park. And it is the Chinese there, the Hong Kongers, are very, very upset about what it's going to happen to them. They understand that China is breaking its word, that China gave this promise. And now they're not only going to live, you know, we had Dennis Kwok the other day in a podcast, in a webinar. And he said, you know, it is chilling and terrifying to me. to that one day a Mandarin speaking, mainland official could just break into my house and take me and my family, arrest all of us. Obviously, the people in Hong Kong do not speak Mandarin in this bill.

They speak Cantonese. And so what he means by that is he means a mainland official. Well, some are saying that this legislation, if it's enacted, would nullify this, you know, one country systems model between Hong Kong and China, which refers to how long Hong Kong has had a different step. other than other Chinese cities. What is your perspective on this thought? Yeah, no, I think it very well could because they won't. So China has no rule of law.

China, the mainland China, where, you know, is the large country. When we think of China, we think of China, one-four billion people ruled by the Communist Party. Does not have the rule of law. People are put away into dungeons all the time. There are many examples, Lee Chabot, who won a Nobel Prize. was going in person because he spoke against the government. You know, many, many people, Uyghurs, they have created Uyghurs concentration camps.

Uyghurs are the Turkic-speaking Muslim religion minority that lives in Western China, and they have been persecuted for a very long time. And for the last few years, China has just created these concentration camps. So that's the reality in China. The reality in Hong Kong is very different. It's a free marketplace where human rights are respected,

where you have a property right, where you have freedom of speech, where you have freedom of conscience. You have all these natural rights that are respected, even though it's not fully a democracy. So that is why the Hong Kong people are so scared that something similar could happen. to them. Well, Sam and Lee has talked about this proposed national security law for Hong Kong, saying that it's terrible news for pro-democracy activists. And you alluded to this in the beginning,

but can you talk more about why and is this the case for pro-democracy efforts? Well, I mean, so what the local Hong Kong people, what the pro-democracy local Hong Kong people want to do is expand their rights to want to have more people elected to the Legislative Council they want to be able to elect their own chief executive. These are steps that in no way should threaten China. China promised to allow Hong Kong to have a high degree of autonomy, quote unquote, until 2047. It took over when Britain handed over the territory in 1997.

Britain, Hong Kong was created through a British rule of law and the ingenuity and hard work of the local population. It was a perfect marriage. And now they're seeing what we started in the middle of the 19th century. There's a very real risk that it could end. And Hong Kong could become, like any other city on the mainland, where human rights are not respected, where people get thrown into prison, they're not able to speak their mind,

they're not able to choose a religion they follow. They're not able to choose any religion, really, except for state-sanction ones that are not really religion. So, you know, this is a very, very bad situation for Hong Kong people. I should tell you, by the way, there are many people on the hill considering right now allowing Hong Kong people to emigrate to the United States and asking for a coalition of other, you know, free democracies in the world to open their doors to the people of Hong Kong. There are not very many. There's 8 million people in Hong Kong. they're industrious, they're hardworking,

they have the norms that we have in the free world. They are no different from Australia or Chile or any country in Europe or Canada or India. So, you know, they would make very good citizens in France and German in the UK or here. Do you think that will gain any traction on the hill? And like where do you see from a policy perspective like opportunity there if that were to gain momentum. Yeah, I mean, so I think right now it's at the consensual level. They're going to try to write the legislature, you know, stating this.

There's also a big push not to certify China. Something called the Hong Kong Democracy Act, which requires the Secretary of State to certify Hong Kong as indeed being different from China. Right now, you know, we don't hit Hong Kong products with any of the tariffs that we hit Chinese products with. We do not. We sell to Hong Kong sensitive equipment that we would never export to China, like dual-use, you know, technology that can be used in the military because Hong Kong really does have very good export controls. So when we sell things to Hong Kong, we know they're not going to find their way to mainland China. However, if Hong Kong becomes just another city in Changchang, no different from Canton or Xinjiang or Shanghai or Beijing, then really Hong Kong should not benefit from having from from from from from from from from from China's or any of these exemptions.

So there's a big push. And national security advisor, O'Brien already said he didn't see how. Secretary Pompeo could certify Hong Kong if this law passes. Well, CNN has reported that on Wednesday, protesters were asked to gather outside the Legislative Council or on Wednesday in an attempt to repeat the success that they had last year when they managed to prevent legislators from debating an extradition bill in China, which was eventually withdrawn. And so, Mike, do you think that protesters could potentially have the same level of the success they had last year with that extradition bill?

Yeah, see, I don't see how because the law that is so threatening the Hong Kong way of life and the life of the people of Hong Kong is going to be considered and debated if you can call it that in Beijing at the NPC, at the National People's Congress, which again is the rubber stamp legislature for the ruling communist clique in China. So the action will take place in China, which is further offense. I mean, it's just one more offense among many. So I don't see how the people of Hong Kong can stop anything. I don't want to say a word here, by the way, for your listeners, why should I care about 8 million people in a city half the world away? You know, there are many things that work here. First of all, we should care. We should stand up for freedom and democracy whenever we can.

But, you know, there's 1,200 U.S. companies doing business in Hong Kong. Over 800 of them have the regional offices or headquarters in Hong Kong. This is a huge asset to the United States. Many IPOs, many of China's IPOs are done through Hong Kong. And it's also a matter, you know, we're asking us, we're living through COVID-19, which originated in the Chinese city of Wuhan. We know very well that China first, you know, hid the truth about the virus. Then it tried to spread this information, saying that it was the U.S.

army that originated the virus, which is a bio form of disinformation. So the question right now is we have this very large country, which is a very large part of the world GDP and a big trader with us. Can we really trust China? And many people in the United States right now, in our government, I'm asking themselves this question and say, no, no, we can't. And if China does this to Hong Kong, then it's proven without the shadow of a doubt that the word of the Chinese Communist Party, that is, the leadership of China, you know, Xi Jinping, you know, is the president of China, but he's really important title. He's the head of the Chinese Communist Party. That's the reason he rules in China. If he violates China's word, you know, then the word that

Dong Xiaoping, one of his predecessors gave, then we cannot trust him or the government of the People's Republic of China. And I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about the Chinese people here. The Chinese people in many ways are the victims of their own government. We have the problems that we have with the government of the PRC because it violates the dignity of the Chinese people. And just as it is doing now with the people of Hong Kong. So this is a very important matter to American listeners. Well, Mike, you actually just hit on a big part of my next question,

which is, you know, if you mentioned, Hong Kong is a huge global financial center. how could this so-called national security law directly hamper their influence? And you mentioned that those 800 or so companies that do have headquarters there. What are the practical implications of this? The practical implications? Well, we know, as I said, a lot of the trade that we do with China. Something, by the way, China's direct investment in the mainland, 60% of it goes through Hong Kong. 60% of the world direct investment goes through Hong Kong.

We know that they invest here in the U.S. They invests all over the world. So we're talking about a giant investor and a giant trader, which is really cutting off its noses by its own face. And our companies, Walmart, for example, which does billions in trade with China, are other companies that do so much trade with China. if this happens and China begins to unravel because it's really just hurt itself out of political peak, then down the line, you know, we're really considered China an adversary.

So, but I mean, what do we have with an adversary that has wounded itself? So that is, that is the, it will add, add a big risk factor to all the other risk factors that we have. with the PRC. So, Mike, if this is what does pass, what could happen next? Does this have implications for other things China is pursuing, even on the international stage? Well, you know, the Daily Mail had an article a couple hours ago, I think, saying that China had moved two aircraft carriers just off Taiwan. You know, a very erratic China will give us, I mean, we, we,

We need the sea lanes. We need to move our goods to import oil. And we have to make sure that the seas are open. And if China now just is going to begin to act this way with Hong Kong, moving to new aircraft carriers into war games near Taiwan, you know, it adds another level of instability to the world that we don't need at the moment. You know, I think the United States, but not just the United States, the United States and the democracies. Oh, by the way, that's another thing.

Speaking of democracies, there's another very large democracy, India. There's been a lot of border skirmishes. There's a very long border between China and India. And there have been a lot of skirmishes reported on the border between China and. and India in the last two weeks. So this is now, it's not just that, it's not just China. So it's not just Hong Kong. It's not just Taiwan.

It's also India. I think the democracies need to get together and say, what do we do with a nation that could become rogue? So I truly hope that the National People's Congress does not act this way, does not pass this law, that wiser heads. prevail in Beijing. National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien suggested that the U.S. might consider sanctions against China if it does go forward with this law.

And that's a wise course, and how should the U.S. and other Western nations respond to this? You know, the reality of it that other than job-boning, other than in speaking constantly and calling out this behavior, you know, the Communist Party of China will do what it wants because it doesn't need to seek the consent of the government. It does not, you know, there are no checks and balances. It really is the rule of one man, Xi Jinping, over 1.4 billion people. Now, it could be that you keep hearing that he's becoming more and more unpopular within the Polybore.

The Polybore are the 14 aging communists who, who, make the major political decisions for the Communist Party. And if there are people within the Politburo that begin to say to President Xi, well, listen, you know, you have the most important relationship to us is a relationship with the United States. We're an emerging power, and you have put us at risk here. If that is true that that kind of activity is taking place, and that is, you know, this could change things. But that is all happening, you know, just outside Tiananmen Square in the, in the, middle of Beijing, we're limited other than using our bully pulpit and using passing laws

and telling, you know, if we do, for example, pass a law that allows people in Hong Kong to immigrate to the United States or to immigrate to France or to Italy or Germany, that would be a huge loss of phase, a great source of embarrassment for Xi Jinping to have something like, you know, the freedom flights that, you know, Fidel Castro had in Cuba, people escaping, this would be, you know, China wants to be thought of as a good, you know, a safe world player. It doesn't want to be thought of this way. And so hopefully, hopefully the criticism that it is receiving from all quarters will begin. begin to have some impact. Lastly, Mike, what is your message?

If you could tell something to those who are in Hong Kong protesting the so-called national security law, what is your message to them? Well, I mean, obviously, to remain peaceful, they can become their own worst enemies if they begin to act in a violent way. They will lose support. If the protesters begin to destroy property or to hurt people, that is not something that's going to gain them. support in the West. In fact, that has happened in the past when some protesters, a very small

minority, but that matters, go over the line and create chaos. Nobody likes anarchy. So right now, the people of Hong Kong really do have the support of the American people and of the administration. Secretary Pompeo, Vice President Pence, and President Trump have all been very strong, very strong. in expressing their support for the people, in expressing their support for the people of Hong Kong. In fact, Mike Pompeo, Secretary Pompeo on Friday issued a statement that ended saying, we are with the people of Hong Kong. They cannot abdicate that by being violent.

Well, Mike, thank you so much for unpacking what's going on in Hong Kong for us and for joining us on the Daily Signal podcast. Thank you. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to The Daily Signal Podcasts. We appreciate your patience as we record remotely during these weeks. Please be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or Spotify. And please leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts and give us your feedback.

Stay healthy and we will be back with you all tomorrow. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. It is executive produced by Kate Shrinco and Rachel Del Judas. Sound designed by Lauren Evans, Fulia Rampersad, Mark Geine, and John Pop. For more information, visitdailysignal.com.