The Daily Signal - 'There's Beauty in the Midst of Ashes,’ Says Pastor on National COVID-19 Recovery Panel

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

Reopening America’s economy is going to take leadership and insight from every sphere of society, including the faith community.  The Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference and a member of the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission, joins The Daily Signal Podcast to talk about what a pastor brings to the panel and when we can expect churches and businesses to open their doors again.  As America and the rest of the world face the challenges and fears created by COVID-19, Rodriguez says, it might be helpful to view this time as a "reset" or opportunity to refocus our priorities to what truly matters.  “Just like when we reset our iPhones, it goes back to its default settings,” Rodriguez says. “What if this is a hard reset, and we go back to our default settings of faith and family, of the true essential elements in our lives, of the things that really matter?” Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Monday, April 20th. I'm Robert Lewy. And I'm Virginia Allen. On today's show, we talk with Reverend Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, and a member of the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission. He shares with us when churches and businesses may be able to reopen and what his role is as a pastor on the Recovery Commission. We also share your letters to the editor and some good news about the work that people just like you are doing in their own communities to serve health care workers

and those in need of food and personal protective equipment during the coronavirus pandemic. Before we get to today's show, Rob and I would like to tell you about a really great way to stay informed on the issues that conservatives need to know about. The agenda is a weekly Monday morning email that gives you the conservative perspective

on current events along with television interviews from our experts and important events happening here at the Harris. Heritage Foundation. Even during the coronavirus, the Heritage Foundation is continuing to host public events online every week. You don't want to miss these events or the commentary that our experts are delivering about the state of our economy, our future relationship with China, and how America can recover from COVID-19. You can sign up for the agenda by emailing Managing Editor at Heritage.org or scroll down to the bottom of the heritage website, that's www.org, and look for the

subscribe to email update section at the bottom of the page. Now, stay tuned for today's show. Coming up next. I am joined by Reverend Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference and a member of the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission. Sam, thanks so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. Now, the Heritage Foundation has just launched the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission, a commission created to strengthen the American economy and help Americans get back to work after the coronavirus. You are one of 17 people on this commission that's chaired by Heritage Foundation President Casey James and composed of leaders and experts in the field of government, public health, disaster response and relief,

academia, education, business, and, of course, the faith community. But in addition to being a pastor and president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, You've also served as an advisor to President Trump on immigration issues in that area of immigration. So how did you really first become involved in that field of public policy? It's been a long journey. It's been a lifelong endeavor to a great degree. I began advising the Bush administration on the invite of Karl Rove and others in the Bush administration regarding the issues of immigration back in 2006.

subsequently, President Obama engaged me on the Fatherhood Task Force and likewise met with him on various occasions on immigration issues and religious liberty issues. And now with President Trump advising him on issues of life, religious liberty, and what I deem, my categorization would be biblical justice issues that include prison reform, justice reform, and immigration. In your opinion, why do you think it's so important for faith leaders to be a involved in that public policy space. Oh, indeed, because as faith leaders, and let me speak particularly on my faith narrative,

which is Christianity, I take the cross as a symbolic characterization, or better yet, a symbolic manifestation of my faith ethos. It's both vertical and horizontal. The cross is both vertical and horizontal. We're committed to saving lives vertically. That's our clarion call. but the cross is likewise horizontal. The best way that I phrase it is, I've committed to the message of Billy Graham, salvation through Christ, but I'm likewise committed to the justice of Mother Teresa.

So it's both vertical and horizontal, and that's what compels us to address these issues. I love that analogy. That's really neat. I've never heard that before. That's so cool. Now, you know, it's going to take everyone kind of on board to rebuild the economy after the coronavirus,

and that certainly takes people like, yourself who are deeply involved in the faith community. Can you just explain a little bit about what your role is within the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission? Sure, advising on all fronts regarding the five pillars outlined by the Commission, dealing with health issues, continual mitigation, looking at testing, contact tracing, isolation, quarantine, of course, increasing testing across the board in a very expedited manner. But likewise, we starting to the economy. And I do believe there is great wisdom and strategies laid out. We are beginning to restart the economy, or we will begin to start, restart the economy in regions that have

demonstrated the minimis, not as a, not as a egregious sort of consequences that we have seen in New York, Michigan, New Orleans, and so forth. So there's a very logical continuum to the way this would take place. But as a faith leader now, I have, I have a commitment to making sure we engage the faith community in both social distancing in the preventive and the firewalling against the virus. Likewise, in engaging in the economic restart, I do have a third caveat or a third motivating driver, which is my concern regarding civil liberties and religious liberty. I still have a little bit of angst to be very forthright with you, a bit of angst. If we can go to Costco and Walmart, if we can go to liquor stores and we can maintain social distancing,

This idea that churches have to be shut down completely. And I have been one that has advocated for churches not to meet in person. I recommended drive-in services. But when certain jurisdictions around the country even forbid and fine drive-in services where the windows are completely shut, there is no physical interaction, no one is going to the restroom, and parishioners are streaming from a parking lot on Easter Sunday, then I do believe that there is government overreact. and we need to somehow address civil liberty and religious liberty concerns.

Yeah. And is that something that, you know, you've been voicing concerns to political leaders about? I have. I have. I have expressed the concerns to the highest office in the land. Wow. Well, good. We appreciate you advocating, obviously, for our faith community.

It's something that is so important, obviously, to our society. And I know to many, many of our listeners, including myself. So we do appreciate that. Now, Heritage Foundation President Casey James, who's chairing the commission, she said that saving lives and livelihoods are part of the same road to recovery. And, you know, we have to pursue both. And a physically healthy America and an economically strong America, they're really, you know, you can't have one without the other.

You need both. So can you explain a little bit more about how the commission is working to find this balance in accomplishing both? saving physical lives, but also beginning to reopen the economy. And she receives, of course, a very boisterous, unabashed amen from yours truly. What I love from the commission, what I love about heritage, it's not linear sequential in the strategy. It's not, let's get all 350 plus 365, 70 million Americans tested first,

and then let's restart the economy. We understand that that's not practical. So the commission strategy of doing, it's both and, not either or, it's not a dichotomy, and doing them simultaneously, I think that's brilliant. We continue to increase testing. We continue to isolate and quarantine. The contact tracing to me is critical. Testing, contact tracing.

Who had it? Who still has it or who they currently have it? Let's contact trace. Let's isolate. Let's quarantine. Let's protect the most vulnerable. We can do that simultaneously to restarting the economy. Segments of the economy, economic sectors, particular industries that have already demonstrated

to have the capability in the capacity to protect the workers. Let's begin that as expeditiously as possible. Let's look at regions. And let's phase things in. This idea of a one button that will restart the economy, of course, it's not. There's no such animal whatsoever. But we can daze this in. And I do support what the president stated in his press conference.

Yesterday, it looks like it's going to be in the beginning of May. But again, we can do both ends. So I love the heritage sort of motors operandi. It's not linear sequential. It's not one after the other. Let's make sure every single American has been tested first. Let's make sure every single American has been. And then we restart.

I think that strategy is not practical. The economic ramifications would be so egregious for generations to come that my children and my children's children will pay the price and the impact. Well, as you've mentioned, you know, the Heritage Foundation and the Commission has kind of laid out a process of reopening the economy. And they've laid out these five phases of step one, step two, and so on, of how we can begin to, quote, unquote, get back to normal. The first step of that plan is return to a more normal level of business activity at the regional level based on scientific data.

And of course, that return to a more normal level of business, we hope will include the reopening of churches and places of worship. Do you have any sense of the timeline on what the commission is maybe tentatively advising for when businesses and churches and so forth can begin to reopen? I don't want to be presumptuous with articulating a rigid timeline. out of the commission. I can speak on behalf of Samuel Rodriguez. I can tell you this, I can tell you that the timeline will reflect, or currently, currently reflects what the president is continuing to advocate for. So in my interpretation of the T-Lebes, it looks like the 1st of May. Some states actually are actually, some states and regions are receiving a a nod from Pennsylvania Avenue as it pertains to even an earlier start.

Again, there are regions of the country. I want your audience to be aware of, and I know they are completely aware of. There are regions of the country that have experienced the minimis close to null as it pertains to impact regarding the pandemic. And these regions, because, of course, they may be isolated. It's not intensely populated as New Jersey or New York or San Francisco. These regions should have the right to reopen. their economies and reopen businesses and reopen restaurants, again, adhering to some practical

CDC recommendations that will continue to build a firewall against the spreading of this pandemic. But I do believe that liberty is in the next few days, you're going to hear about regions and cities, parts of the country that will begin to reopen. And then come May 1st, I think you're going to hear at a greater scale states and regions of the country completely that will begin to reopen. It's exciting. Well, I know many people, including myself, are ready for that. Excited for that day. Let me interject it by Ken. There will be some, there will be a glitch in the proverbial matrix.

There will be some anxiety and there will be some conflict, some legal confrontation. Let me explain. In the state of California, where I live in California, I abide in California. The state of California, they have extended, the governor's extending, of course, the stay-at-home executive order and so forth. And we have, we never really experienced an apex by the grace of God. We have not. We flattened the curve. Wait a minute. There wasn't even a curve. I mean, we, again, by the grace of God, California was spared. But the stay at home stay or executive order now stands extended, right? Now the federal government is going to begin to unleash and say, go ahead, let's do this following. What will churches do in the state of California? Would they adhere to

the federal advice or the federal recommendation or or adhere to when they see their fellow church pastors in states who have been similarly impacted, gathering and so forth? So I have proposed a faith in sort of church setting where it may be 25, 30 percent of parishioners regarding building capacity week one and two, made me move up to 60%, week three and four. And by week five and six, we're up to 90% of 100% of capacity. So there's a phased in building capacity sort of, we may have multiple services, but we won't deny the physical gathering of the saints, that's the apostle Paul would. Right.

So again, there may be some clashes. Churches and others may get angsty in states that continue to extend the quarantine. In perpetuity, we're going to have inevitable institutions that will fight back. say, wait a minute, we have the right to gather and so forth. But we have constitutional rights and civil liberties that we will never sacrifice on the altar of the pandemic or on the altar of political expediency. So what is your advice then to faith leaders who, you know, may find themselves, you know, for one, they're trying to encourage their congregations during a really, really difficult

time. They're trying to continue to build community online. But they're also, yeah, looking at these kind of potential roadblocks and challenges moving forward and trying to figure out how do we navigate reopening and at the same time, of course, you know, honoring the government and obeying those laws. Number one, let not your heart be troubled. We speak as an evangelical now. We serve a Lord, a Christ who is on the throne.

He is sovereign. God is with us, and we will overcome by the blood of the Lamb of the word of our testimony. So we know that God is faithful. Number two, the church has survived wars, other pandemics, the church is alive and well, and nothing will be able to stop the church of Jesus. Number three, we need to incorporate a similar strategy, and let me explain. Churches should be meeting via some sort of social media platform, interactive platform, video platform, whatever it may be. Churches should be meeting as I speak, church leadership, executive management teams regarding restarting churches.

The idea of a one button, the church restarts, we're back to normal, not going to happen. We have to phase this in. What does that look like for a church? What does that look like doing ministry in a phased-in model that may take a month, a month or a half, two months, three months? What does that look like? So we should already build that sort of infrastructure, build some capacity with leadership, and begin to incorporate.

Another item that church should be concerned or not concerned should do their thorough due diligence on is risk management regarding insurance. Make sure they have insurance coverages that will protect parishioners, members adherence. Let's just say if a member attends to litigate. I came back after the quarantine and this happened and so forth. Make sure the risk management element is completely addressed by church leadership at the Judiciary Governance Board, the Board of Trustees, Deacons, or Directors at your discretion. So these things are the things to do for churches and pastors. But hey, we're going to be back and we're not going to have church online. My church is going to have church online from now

until the coming of the Lord prayerfully in addition to physical meetings because we discovered that online has an audience that we were not aware of before. And many of us grew online at a very high-rated exponential manner. We're going to continue to nurture that while meeting physically. And we can't deny meeting physically is a biblical mandate. It's do not deny the physical fellowship of believers, the saints. So we want to meet. We want to see each other. We want to greet each other.

And we want to worship the Lord together. It's right around the corner. Let your heart be troubled. How do you think that the coronavirus has, and I guess moving forward will continue to really affect the global church? I mean, being a pastor and a faith leader, I'm sure that you're in touch with so many other leaders across the world. What are pastors kind of talking about and saying that they're seeing, that's encouraging

in their faith communities. Yeah, we're part of something called the Congress of Christian Leaders with Johnny Moore, myself, and we have a network of the largest mega church pastors from around the world, so I've had conversations with them. Now, I want to be careful and nuance regarding the following statement. This may be the greatest hour for the church in a very long time. Let me explain. Prior to World War I, in America and around the world, it was the church,

either the Catholic or the Protestant church, primarily responsible for quenching that there's feeding to Hungary, taking care of the widow and the orphan and those that are suffering in our society, taking care of the homeless. Somehow we acquiesced. And right after World War I, we basically stood within the confines of our buildings. And many churches, particularly in the Protestant world, said we're going to focus on having services. The cross is both vertical and horizontal.

I alluded to that analogy previously. And it's both and not either or. The strongest part of the cross is the nexus where the vertical and the horizontal intersect. That's where the fishes meet the bread. Here's my prayer. I prayer the church at this hour around the world. Even if this pandemic continues, I pray the church be the primary conduit by which those that are suffering in our communities receive help. I pray the church, many of our churches are going to nursing homes.

Many of our churches, we have millennials and Generation Z young people from our church literally with gloves and masks being heavily sanitized as it pertains to the disinfectants and germ killers. They are out there delivering food, putting it in the doorsteps. With protective, it's amazing. Let's change the world. Let's take care of those that are suffering. So I do believe it may be the brightest hour, the greatest opportunity for a church to rise. up and shine the light of Christ without ever sacrificing simultaneously the preaching of the gospel of

Jesus. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. I've been so encouraged. I think, you know, there's so much, there's so much bad news out there, but I feel like right now more so than I've ever seen before is a lot of good news. And people are, like you say, they're stepping out, they're taking ownership of their community, and they're really looking for opportunities for how to help and serve. And that's something that I hope that we'll see continue even after this pandemic passes. There's beauty in the midst of ashes. And we are seeing that every single day in communities across America and around the world. It really is.

Now, how do you think that America is going to look different after all of this? I mean, people keep talking about a return to normal. But, I mean, is there going to be just a totally new normal, do you think? Sam Rodriguez has issues with the idea that there is a new normal. Was there a new normal after 9-11? Yes, I experience that as a heavy traveler every single day I go through TSA. There is a new normal as it pertains to traveling post-9-11. Yes, there is a new normal.

Would there be a new normal after COVID-19? The idea that this pandemic has the power of redefining who we are as Americans and redefining the American. experience. If there's anything that may be lost, and I don't think it will be, that maybe loss is the handshake, the handshake. So if there's anything that will be lost, that may be lost for a very long while, is the shaking of hands. But this idea of perpetual social distancing, it's not who we are as humanity. It's not who I am, who we are as Christians, but it's not as we are as humanity. We understand we have to do that now, but not in perpetuity. We were made.

We are wired to interact. We are wired to demonstrate affirmation, validation, love, affection. Some of us are wired to hug. We're wired to pat on the back. And some of us actually like to shake hands. Again, there is a new, we are now cognizant of the fact that these viruses can be transmitted primarily through the shaking of hands through human interaction. But I do believe that we are going to be cleaning our hands more than ever before, at least in my generation. There's going to be constant washing of hands. There's going to be more vigilance, of course, in the short term.

Hopefully we will have that memory span issue, one year, two years, three years from now. So will America be radically transformed? I think inevitably we're going to go back to what we understood as the old, normal prior to COVID-19 with some embedded safety mechanisms and firewalls, both personally and culturally together as a community. But I hope and pray, the pandemic doesn't radically transform who we are as American. I want to watch my New York Yankees play the Red Sox. And I mean, I need to watch my Yankees play the Red Sox. And so my point is, yeah, I mean, we're going to go back to that. The idea of no mass gatherings or for now for the next year.

And now we're going to get a vaccine. The vaccine will be around a worst case scenario 18 months from now. Best case scenario, 12 months from now. We're going to have a vaccine. With that vaccine, we dealt with the COVID-19 pandemic. So let me answer your question in a very synoptical way because I just blew that objective. Here it is. There may be a new normal for 12 months.

After 18 months, we'll be back to the old normal. that's encouraging to hear well and as a redsox fan i certainly want to see the yankees play the red sox to get myself i think i want a different outcome than the one that you want that that's going to be an exciting day we can be back at the stadium once again now before i do just want to give you the opportunity just to maybe share a word of encouragement to anyone listening who you know they really are struggling with anxiety maybe they've lost their job or they have a family member who's sick or they're elderly and they're very worried about getting COVID-19 themselves. What would you say to them? You know, I was fascinated. It's post-easter.

And as a pastor, I look, I give my devotions and look at scripture, kind of line it up with the current timeline and so forth. You know, right after the resurrection, the Bible speaks about an interesting story where the door was closed. The disciples met post-facto. After resurrection, there was a bit of confusion. There was noise in the system. What do we do? What happens next? Some of you all, you claim to see him.

Thomas has yet, you know, he's doubting. There's questions. And all of a sudden, the Bible says, behind a closed door. Now, do your biblical due diligence on that. It's pretty powerful. The door was closed. And all of a sudden, Jesus shows up. He shows up.

Of course, there's that Thomas encounter, and the disciples are overwhelmed by the presence of Christ. speaks to them behind closed door. We are collectively, to a great degree, behind closed doors. We find ourselves closed in, sheltered in, in this quarantine. We're behind closed doors. Do not negate the power of Jesus showing up through his word, through his spirit behind closed doors. The fact that we can find comfort that he can comfort us. He is the comforter. And through his spirit, he comforts us. Behind closed doors, amazing things may happen. This may very well be just a hard reset. For me, for you, for our families, for our faith.

Just like when we reset our iPhones, it goes back to its default settings. What if this is a hard reset and we go back to our default settings of faith and family of the true essential elements in our lives, of the things that really matter? So at the end of the day, when the door opens up, we're going to come out or we're going to look better than before. Or actually, we may be healthier with our families, with our children, with our marriages than before the pandemic. So it may be a hard reset, but God doesn't. amazing things behind closed doors. Yeah. Sam, we really appreciate your words of encouragement and all the work that you're doing on the National Coronavirus Recovery Commission. Thank you for your time today.

Thank you for having me. At The Daily Signal, we want to make sure you and your family are receiving the most accurate information about the coronavirus. Here's an important message from First Lady Melania Trump. To all of our medical personnel and other frontline responders, on behind. half of a grateful nation, thank you. The President and I appreciate all that you're doing to keep the people of our country healthy and safe. In the most difficult of times,

the United States never fails to rise to the occasion with both unity and strength. It is because of you that the people of America are receiving the care and treatment they need. We stand united with you, and we salute your courageous and compassion. efforts. Our prayers are with all who are fighting this invisible enemy, COVID-19. Thanks for sending us your letters to the editor. Each Monday we feature our favorites on this show and in the Daily Signal's MorningVal email newsletter. Virginia, who's up first?

Joy Walton writes, Dear Daily Signal, I just finished listening to Rachel Del Judas's podcast interview with Elise Park, who not only is a personal friend of mine, but also one of the most gift. mental health counselors I've ever encountered. Thank you for allowing Elise Park to share her gift with the world. She has given me and so many others practical, peacegiving recommendations. She's been a warrior fighting in particular for those in the healthcare community. She's not only a listening ear, but someone who truly has given us tools for anxiety-provoking situations. Thank you for recognizing an issue that is so prevalent right now, and for allowing Elise Park's calming voice to speak. And in response to Adam Michelle's commentary piece, sending more money to states could make their budget problems worse, Wes writes to us, sadly, money doesn't grow on trees.

I think we all know that, yet the government throws it around like it did. Milton Friedman used to say that when the government prints money and raises taxes, it causes inflation. Yet, despite the evidence that he's right, our politicians keep driving us off a cliff with out-of-control spending and unpayable debt. Spending money isn't going to solve our economic problems. It only adds to them. Your letter can be featured on next week's show. So send us an email at letters at daily signal.com. Virginia, you have a good news story to share with us today. Over to you. Thanks so much, Rob. You know, I'm really excited to not only share some good news today, but also a way that we can all be a part of sharing good news throughout the week and during this time when, you know, there is a

plenty of bad news to look at, but fortunately, there's also a lot of good news. So our friends over at Heritage Action for America asked their sentinels to send stories or photos of some of the ways they are serving their communities during COVID-19, and the good news has just been flowing in. So I want to share some of those stories with you all today. A father and son named Darren and Dalton Ludke are using 3D printing to create face shields and mass for emergency personnel in their county of Cherokee, Georgia. And in Austin, Texas, a teen named Ian McKenna, is an avon gardener. And he's not only been delivering fresh produce to those in need during COVID-19, but he's also been setting them seeds so that they can start

planting and growing gardens of their own. In a tweet, McKenna said, Proud to provide for my classmates and strangers in this time of need. A woman named Bethany Mendel started a GoFundMe called Kosher 19 to deliver kosher meals to health care workers during the pandemic. She's raised over $47,000 in her mission to feed over 5,000 nurses, doctors, and other health care professionals. It's just, wow, it's amazing. These are only three of the stories that our friends at Heritage Doction have received. And if you want to be involved in sending them your own good news stories or just want to see a way to follow all these stories that are coming in, you can check out their Twitter page that's at Heritage underscore Action, or you can

visit their site where they explain how to go about sending in stories, visit heritageaction. com slash care. And you can start sharing good news and reading more good news today. Virginia, thanks so much for sharing that story. We're going to leave it there for today. The Daily Signal Podcast can be found in the Rikershay Audio Network, and all of our shows can be found at daily signal.com slash podcasts. You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or your favorite podcast app,

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