The Daily Signal - This Group Is Suing Biden Administration Over Vaccine Mandates

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

Small businesses around the country are attempting to bounce back from the devastating effects of the pandemic. But vaccine mandates imposed by the Biden administration, critics say, threaten to crater the progress made by small companies just as they’re starting to get back on their feet. Alfredo Ortiz is president and CEO of Job Creators Network, an organization representing small businesses that is suing the Biden administration over its vaccine mandates. "[Small businesses] were the ones that really particularly got hit hard," Ortiz says. "[W]hen we all look back now, it looks like big businesses just continue to get bigger, but our small businesses just really suffered." "Whether it was mandate regulations in terms of the masks, whether it was seating arrangements, capacity, I mean you name it. They were just getting hit hard left and right," he says. Ortiz joins "The Daily Signal Podcast" to talk about that lawsuit and the impact of government policies on small businesses. We also cover these stories: Attorney General Merrick Garland orders investigations into criminal conduct at school board meetings. Prominent Republicans, including Senator Josh Hawley from Missouri and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, criticize the Department of Justice’s investigation. Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen testifies before a Senate subcommittee on how the company is putting its profits before users. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, October 6th. I'm Virginia Allen. And I'm Doug Blair. Small businesses around the country are attempting to bounce back from the devastating effects of the pandemic. But vaccine mandates imposed by the Biden administration threatened to crater the progress made by small companies just as they're starting to get back on their feet. Alfredo Ortiz is the president and CEO at Job Creators Network,

an organization representing small businesses that is currently suing the Biden administration over its vaccine mandates. He joins the show to talk about that lawsuit and what impact government policies have had on small businesses. And don't forget, if you enjoy listening to this podcast, please be sure to leave us a review or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. And now on to today's top news. Debates over K-12 education are heating up. On Monday, Attorney General Merrick Garland ordered the FBI and federal prosecutors. to meet with federal, state, and local leaders in each federal judicial district across the country. What is the purpose of these meetings?

To look into what Garland says is a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence being made against school administrators, board members, teachers, and staff. The announcement of the investigation comes less than a week after the National School Board's Association asked President Joe Biden for assistance, looking into whether threats against school board members and other school leaders could be classified as domestic terrorism. The meetings between the federal state and local leaders are to take place within the next 30 days. Garland says the meetings will open dedicated lines of communication for threat reporting, assessment, and response. Garland also said the Justice Department plans to announce a series of measures in the coming days to address the rise of criminal companies. conduct directed towards school personnel.

Prominent Republicans, including Senator Josh Hawley from Missouri and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, criticized the Department of Justice's announcement directing the FBI and other agencies to investigate criminal conduct against school boards and educators, with DeSantis accusing Garland of weaponizing the Justice Department per Fox News. On Tuesday, Holly sent a letter to the Attorney General accusing him of conflating pushback from parents on topics like critical race theory with domestic terrorism. In his letter, Holly wrote, I certainly share your view that threats of violence have no place in this country,

but the backdrop of your memo strongly suggests that your concern is not violence, but democratic pushback against critical race theory. Governor DeSantis went further, stating in a Tuesday tweet that Florida will defend the free speech rights of its citizens and will not allow federal agents to squelch dissent. Facebook whistleblower Francis Howgan testified before a Senate subcommittee on Tuesday. Howgan used to work at Facebook and says the company is putting its profits before users. The documents Howgan leaked reveal that Facebook knows that its platform Instagram is harmful to young girls' mental health, but has done nothing to address the issue.

The documents also reveal tactics Facebook uses to market itself to children per guardian. in news. During my time at Facebook, I came to realize a devastating truth. Almost no one outside of Facebook knows what happens inside of Facebook. The company intentionally hides vital information from the public, from the U.S. government, and from governments around the world. The documents I have provided to Congress proved that Facebook has repeatedly misled the public about what its own research reveals about the safety of children, the efficacy of its artificial intelligence systems, and its and spreading divisive and extreme messages. Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee questioned Howgan

during the hearing regarding the platform's violation of the Children's Privacy Act and how Facebook does market research on children. Often large tech companies use either sourcing agencies that will go and identify people who meet certain demographic criteria or they will reach out directly based on data on the platform. So, for example, on the case of Messenger kids, maybe you would want to study a child that was an active user and one that was a less active user, you might reach out to some that came from each population.

And so these are children that are under age 13. Yeah. And they know it for some of these studies. And I assume they get permission, but I don't work on that. Okay. Well, we're still waiting to get a copy of that parental consent form. Hawaii Democratic Senator Brian Schatz asked Hogan if work on Facebook kids platforms will likely continue.

Hagen answered that she would be sincerely surprised if they do not continue working on Instagram kids, and I would be amazed if a year from now, we don't have this conversation again. Now stay tuned for my conversation with Alfredo Ortiz as we discuss his group's lawsuit against the Biden administration and how government policies are impacting small businesses. Virginia Allen here, I want to tell you all

about one of my favorite podcasts. Heritage Explains is a weekly podcast that breaks down all the policy issues we hear about in the news at a 101 level. Hosts Michelle Cordero and Tim Desher mix in news clips and music to tell a story, but also bring in heritage experts to help break down complex issues. Heritage Explains offers quick, 10 to 50 minute explainers that bring you up to speed in an entertaining way. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, or where you're, ever you listen to your podcast. We even put the full episode on YouTube. Our guest today is Alfredo Ortiz, president and CEO at Job Creators Network, a nonpartisan organization that advocates for pro-small business policies. Afrodo, thank you so much for

joining us today. Thank you for having me. Of course. So the Job Creators Network recently announced that they are going to be suing the Biden administration over proposed vaccine mandates that are going to be imposed on businesses with 100 employees or more. Could you go into a little more detail about the lawsuit and what caused you to file it? Sure. Well, first of all, again, thank you for having me. I think one of the things when you think about small business, I mean, small businesses, especially, you know, under the COVID regime and what was happening or the Biden administration,

you know, they have really had a real tough go at it. They were the ones that really particularly got hit hard. I think when we all look back now, it looks like big businesses just continue to get bigger. but our small businesses just really suffered, whether it was, you know, mandate regulations in terms of, you know, the mask, whether it was, you know, seating arrangements, you know, capacity, I mean, you name it. They were just getting hit left, you know, hit hard left and right. And so, you know, one of the things, once this mandate came out, we were like, this is absolute government overreach. First of all, we just don't believe that OSHA has the regulatory authority to do that, first and foremost. we believe actually Congress would if they could pass a law for it, which again, I don't think would happen because they won't ever get the 60 votes that they need to get it done.

But when you looked at the impact it was going to have on small businesses, again, already suffering from labor shortages, for example, inflation costs, this was going to be an additional hit for them because all those companies that have employees over 100, guess what? A lot of those are in really pretty successful states right now. You know, many cases, for example, one of our stops that we're doing because we're doing a national bus tour was in Missouri, for example. And this company had 160 people as a steel production company. And they said, look, we have a 2% unemployment rate here. You know how easy it would be for these guys who don't want the vaccine, which, by the way, was about 40% of their workforce, don't want to do it. And would refuse to do it. And they said, they'll just go find another person to employ them, which would be very easy for them to do.

and we're going to lose our skilled workforce. This is a major impact to them. And so we just really firmly believe that that kind of government overreach was just, you know, ridiculous. And let me be really clear. We're not anti-vaxxers. We actually encourage Americans to get the vaccine. We do think it's a good thing. I personally vaccinated.

Several of my staff are vaccinated, but several aren't. We encourage it, but we're not going to force them to do it or threaten them with the idea of firing them. And, you know, the idea of also incurring a fee. for the employers if they don't actually comply is another, we just believe, you know, ridiculous aspect of this. And so, you know, overall, though, we also believe that the Biden administration is just being deceitful and dishonest with the American public because they talk about this mandate is for our largest employers of this country.

I'm sorry, but when I hear largest employers, I'm thinking Delta, Coca-Cola, you know, IBM, I mean, you name it. I'm not thinking, you know, Joe's manufacturing, you know, Midwest that has a hundred, 125 people as some of our largest employers in this country. And so I think they're trying to position it so that it sounds like it's really hitting the large companies. But when the SBA itself, the Small Business Administration, you know, has a definition of 500 or less as a small business, when you're hitting 100 or more, guess what? The majority of those people you're actually are going to be hitting are small businesses. Right. I mean, it sounds like a lot of people

kind of consider the small business to be mom and pop shops, but 101 employees definitely would be considered a small business, and it is slightly over that line. You went into a little bit of detail about some of the consequences that this vaccine mandate might impose on small businesses like a mom-and-pop shop or, you know, Joe's manufacturing in the Midwest. But is this affecting these small businesses probably more than a larger business? Or what are some of the consequences that affect smaller businesses as opposed to the larger ones? Yeah, well, obviously, you know, because of the way it looks like it's being written out or will be written out, it's 100 or more, right? You know, a lot of businesses have, you know, about 50 or less, roughly, of the small businesses.

But we're still talking probably, you know, a good 30 to 40 percent of the small businesses that would actually fall in that category. And so when you think about it, we're still talking millions and millions of small businesses that employ tens of millions of people. And so, you know, forcing them with that kind of mandate, again, we just don't believe it makes sense. And really the mandate in terms of it's, you know, the heftiness of that regulation on them versus a large company, it's very, very lopsided. You know, look, just go back to the Dodd-Frank years and what happened there and they're all along that banking regulation, right? I mean, what ended up happening? The big banks didn't get smaller or go out of business. They got bigger.

Right. And what happened to our smallest community banks that served all the local. communities, over 2,000 community banks across the country, many in minority population areas went out of business. Right. Because, look, they can't afford that kind of regulation because if they hire one or two lawyers to comply the same as a large company as a percentage of their cost of doing business. That's a heck of a lot more for a small business than it is for a large business.

Of course. And so, again, you know, there's just, we just believe this is yet another indication of just how clueless the Biden administration is when it comes to small businesses and how they honestly just don't really care. I mean, we've gone through every single policy that the Biden administration has put forth so far. We can't find one that actually is intended to help small businesses. Now, I got challenged a little bit of that. So I'm like, oh, wait a minute, the paycheck protection program renewal. I'm like, okay, it's the renewal of a program that came out from the Trump administration. Right. So this isn't a Biden administration initiated, and quite

frankly, all that work and all the votes and everything was already being done before Biden took office. And so this was really just kind of a carryover the Trump administration. So we really can't find a single policy that is there to and intended to help small businesses. That's just so crazy. Now, one of the things that I'm very curious about is in the course of this lawsuit, in the course of your bus tours, you must have spoken with some small business owners that would have fears and concerns about what this vaccine mandate could mean for their business. Could you share with our listeners some of the things they're saying? Well, again, pitting it back in on the labor shortage idea, that's where their biggest concern is. That a lot of these areas, you know, unemployment rates are

really low. And there's, you know, this is a job seekers market. Even when you think of the unemployment, when you have two jobs available for every unemployed person, this is a really pretty healthy market from a job perspective. And so that's one of their biggest fears, is they are just going to have people that go looking for a company that has less than 100 employees that isn't forced to do this mandate, and they're going to lose their skilled workforce. And so that's a big, big part of that. And of course, the compliance costs is another aspect of it. But when you combine it with everything else, it's just they're feeling the crushing arm of government on their businesses. And so it really is now becoming the collective kind of, you know, death by a thousand

cuts, which was really kind of what was happening under the Obama administration, which they complained about. Remember, there was a period under the Obama administration where more businesses were closing than we're actually opening. So, you know, I called it negative entrepreneurialism, basically. But that's what was happening, right? And so I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing more people get out of their businesses, starts selling their businesses, you know, just saying we just can't take this kind of regulation. We're really concerned about the tax, you know, if we'll have a chance to talk about that.

But, you know, the new taxes are going to be hitting, you know, these small businesses in terms of recalling some of what happened under the Tax Cut of Jobs Act. That's another big concern of theirs and of ours as well. I'm also curious if you were able to speak with them maybe about some of the mask mandates and social distancing mandates. I recall near the beginning of the pandemic, a lot of restaurants were unable to survive due to the pretty onerous restrictions inserted on requirements between spacing between tables and, you know, PPE, like personal protective equipment. Did they in any way, shape, or form sort of indicate that that was still an issue? or how did those affect those small businesses? I would probably say initially that was a big issue for a lot of companies.

You know, the amazing thing about small business owners and entrepreneurs is they tend to figure things out and they try to do not workarounds, but they try to just figure out how to make things work. And I think in that particular case, they have found ways of making it work. It has impact, especially restaurants, for example. Now that it's, you know, a lot of these mass mandates have freed up and a lot of the regulations have freed up, not as big of an issue, of course. But it definitely was at the beginning. I mean, I think the numbers that I'm seeing still for New York City, for example, though, restaurants closed by the end of the year in the city itself, I'm seeing the numbers be as high as 65%

of the actual restaurants in New York City will close by year end because they just couldn't survive. Wow. Right? When you have fixed overheads, and this is, again, what folks didn't understand, when you have fixed overheads, if you give people 20% of it, you give people 20% of, capacity allowances, it doesn't even make sense to stay open. Right. Right. And so they had literally no true way of getting cash flow in.

The paycheck protection program was a huge, huge benefit for a lot of these companies. As you know, there was the Restaurant Revitalization Fund that was out there. But then for some reason, somebody decided that it was great just isolated it, you know, to black business owners, black restaurant owners, which makes no sense whatsoever. I mean, they are heard just as equally as white as Asian. as Hispanic, you know, we needed to have that open to any small business owner. You know, and that's the one thing if I can also say, I mean, our advocacy work isn't just focused on Republican small business owners, for example, or conservative small business owners.

I mean, if, you know, if you're, you know, Republican, independent, Democrat, black, yellow, white, green, blue, I don't really care. Sure. We're going to advocate for you because really we need that advocacy work for our small businesses across the country. They're really the life, you know, the life of our communities. they're the heartbeat of our communities, and collectively, they're the heartbeat of our country. And so without small businesses, we don't have a country.

Right. So you mentioned a little bit at the beginning that small businesses were starting to recover from these COVID restrictions. And then things like we were discussing before the show started, the idea that we're going to charge $70,000, $700,000 in a new fine scheme to mandate COVID vaccines. Did we find that the – these economic issues that were being caused by COVID were more COVID related? Or did we find that they were actually more government mandate related? Well, I mean, you just have to compare the red states versus the blue states, probably to answer that question. I mean, the same COVID existed, you know, across the country. It wasn't like there were two different types of COVIDs,

you know, one in blue states, went to red states. Red state governors seem to have figured out how to be able to balance public health with also the health of their economy versus the blue states. I mean, I still believe the numbers look like unemployment rates are double in blue states as they are in the red states. That's because they were able to balance. Obviously, famously, we know what Florida has done, Georgia, Texas, in terms of finding that right balance of, you know, public health and the, again, the health of their businesses, you can't have one without the other. Right. You know, if all of our small businesses, for example, die because of, you know, government regulations, well, guess what? Then people are out of work. And, you know, let's take a look at

mental health now in this country caused by a lot of that. I mean, suicide rates are at the highest levels. They've probably ever been, you know, prescriptions for anti-exiety and depression medicines are at the highest levels. I mean, now we've got mental health crisis caused by a lot of that government, you know, mandates. And so, you know, a lot of those issues were COVID, but I think they were also man-made in the sense that they were, they came because of government overreach and government overregulation. You know, again, I think the Democrats in particular love crises and they like capitalizing on the crisis, and I think we saw that happen.

The famous phrase, never let a good crisis go to waste comes to mind. In terms of other crises and other things that are affecting our economic health as Americans, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about inflation. It's been in the news quite a bit recently that inflation is at levels that are relatively unprecedented throughout our history. could you go into a little detail about maybe what some of the root causes of this current inflation crisis are? Sure. Well, I mean, obviously a lot of it was caused, you know, coming from COVID, I mean, supply chain issues are a real, real issue.

Some of it, you know, caused because of, you know, the trade imbalances between China and stuff of that. But I think a lot of it also because of the labor shortage caused by some of the unemployment benefits and the extra unemployment benefits that were put out there. You know, truckers, for example, they're in record demand. you can't find truckers right now, which means that the trucks are sitting there. And if trucks are sitting there, I guess what's not moving? Goods and services, right? Or goods in particular, they're still sitting at the ports. You know, so this is a major issue for a lot of these small businesses and just businesses in general from an economy standpoint.

But the Biden inflation, you know, that we're experiencing here is real. Right. You know, we called it out very early on. We called it, you know, Jimmy Carter 2.0 because a lot of the things that, you know, we're under the Carter administration. are really starting to come again full circle under the Biden administration. So we're very concerned about that. And it's funny because, you know, if you just think that two months ago, three months ago, you had Jerome Powell saying, this is just a transitory inflation and we won't say, guess what he just said yesterday?

Well, maybe it's going to be here a little bit longer. Well, no crap. I mean, when you're spending $9, $11 trillion on the economy, dumping money and printing money that the government doesn't have, I think we're going to be at a $32 trillion debt. I mean, it's just ridiculous, right? And so when you spend that kind of money, there's no doubt that you're going to have inflation. I actually believe inflation may hit as high as, you know, 9 to 10 percent by year end.

Well, let's hope not. But as economically not super advanced as I am, I do know one thing. I think the common knowledge is that when you are in a period of heavy inflation, you shouldn't just spend money reckless. which appears to be what the current Congressional Democratic plan for a $3.5 trillion spending package would be. I'm just curious, what is in this package that could just boost the price tag to that point? Yeah. Well, first, let me back up to and say this.

You know, the Democrats, no surprise, chose Yellen for a reason, Janet Yellen, because she was a firm believer in this idea of modern monetary theory, which is basically you don't have to worry about debt and deficits. You can go ahead and spend on social programs, and you don't have to really worry about debt and deficits. And this is really the mentality. A lot of it led by the progressives on the left, AOC, for example, by one of those. But it's that embracing of that philosophy from an economic theory

that's completely flawed, first of all. Of course you're going to have inflation. You're already seeing the 10-year treasury yields are already over one and a half points already, and they will continue to rise because, again, inflation is going to keep ongoing. But, you know, when you look at the spending bill now that's on the table, which is not only $3.5 trillion, I mean, let's be very clear about that. They have accounting gimmicks that are making that the $3.5 trillion. They have things that are sunseting at the seven-year mark, for example, social programs. I mean, I'm sorry, listen to me. Tell me one social program this kind of.

that was passed that seven years later is just going to be recalled. Yeah. It's not going to happen, right? These are programs that would be put there forever, social spending programs, you know, like, you know, free community college, pre-K, you know, tuition paid for. I mean, you're never going to pull those back. So the price tag is really something more like five and a half trillion. And so, you know, but again, when you look at this, very little of that bill is spent on anything related to, you know, infrastructure,

building our country back. I mean, these are truly what I call the Christmas tree list of the socialist. You know, climate change being a big one of them that is driving that price tag. And again, thank goodness there's at least one adult, maybe two adults in the room, a mansion, of course, being one of them, but then Chris and Sinema out in Arizona, that are acting as adults and saying this is going to hurt our country, it's not going to help it. And we don't really need this right now. I mean, that's the biggest problem is we don't need it.

They're just taking the opportunity while they control all the purse strings to get it done, not because of a need, but that's because it's because of something they've always wanted to get done. Right. Now the common refrain amongst the radical left here is that you just tax the rich, of course, to pay for these programs. Right. I mean, that doesn't work, right? No, of course not. I mean, you could tax 100%, you know, the top 1% at 100%, and it's a fraction of what's needed.

And so those are supposedly the rich. You know, Biden, you know, said, don't worry, we're not going to tax anybody under 400,000. Well, we know that's not going to be true either because all taxes roll downhill, first and foremost. And you saw the White House press secretary say that we are very upset with this idea that corporations are saying that they're just going to pass these taxes on to, you know, Americans. We think that's just not right. Well, that is the way the economy actually works. And if they actually ran a business at any point in time, you actually realize that you're not running it as a goodwill business, right? It's a for-profit business.

And only the government thinks that way, right? Because only the government doesn't have to worry about their spending. I ran two small businesses. Guess what? If I was paying out more than I was paying in, I'm out of business, period. It's not an issue of, you know, not being a good citizen. It's just an issue of basic economics, dollars and cents. And, you know, unfortunately, these guys don't understand that.

And so, you know, this idea of taxing the rich is just the most ridiculous thing. It's really taxing success. Again, I mentioned I had two small businesses myself. And I have to tell you, I don't think I would have taken the chance on it if I thought I was going to be capped on my success. You know, if you think about it, if you're willing to put everything on the line for an idea that you have, which is, first of all, the beauty of this country is that you can do that. But if you're willing to mortgage your house, you're taking lines of credit out, you're taking cash advances on your credit card, because you have an idea and you believe in it and you believe in yourself and you want to pursue it. Shouldn't you have unlimited upside?

Right. Right. If you're willing to do that, something that not many people are willing to do, right? But if you didn't have those entrepreneurs, I mean, last time I checked, Microsoft started off as a small business. Apple started off as a small business. Right? Any large business out there started off as a small business. So if we don't allow people to have that idea that they can have unlimited success if they believe in themselves and believe in our country and that this country will help them succeed, no one's going to take the chance anymore.

And we're not going to have an America that we believe in anymore. Absolutely. Well, Afreda, we are running a little bit low on time, but I wanted to get your perspective on one last question. It seems like we've discussed that there is economic turmoil in the United States right now that Americans' economic health is not where it needs to be. what are some policies that we could maybe put on the table to get things back on track? Well, helping small businesses would be one of the best things you can do. I mean, we know that just pre-COVID, two-thirds of new job growth was in the hands of small business. So we know how important small businesses are.

So policies that will really help small businesses, I think, will be a big, you know, step in the right direction. Really understand that you do have to worry about debt and deficits, I think, is a really, really important step. And look, in this particular case, Republicans probably maybe just as guilty, maybe not quite as guilty, but are also guilty in part of this process of spending more than we can make. You know, I've always said, you know, why not have kind of zero-based budgeting and make that part of, you know, an amendment where we actually really have to worry about that and really have to think through all these, you know, all the spending that we have. I mean, I'm sure you do this. You've got a checkbook. I've got a checkbook. I don't write checks more than what I have in my checking account.

Right. Right? I mean, that's just, it's that simple. And you can only take out so much credit before you can't pay for it. Right. And so, you know, I think that's another just smart thing to do for our country and as for policy. And then, you know, social programs are great. There are people that need help.

But I think, you know, when you look at the laundry list of things that the Democrats are putting out right now, you know, we should really go through and think through which one of those are really, really necessary. You know, right now we have probably one of the most polarized political systems I've at least seen in my lifetime. And it sure would be nice if we can get to the point where we can sit down at a table and, you know, as a collective body, think through what's really in the best interest of this country to move it forward. Unfortunately, people are just so polarized right now that it's hard to do that. But those are my quick thoughts. That's good. Well, I don't want to let people go before they know a little bit more about you.

So if they want to learn more about what you guys are doing, the lawsuits, some of your policies that might help small business. where should they go? Pretty easy. Jobcreatorsnetwork.com. And if they're interested in what we're doing, and it's even easier, it's joinjCN.com. I think folks will love what we're doing, whether you're a small business owner,

whether you're an employee of a small business owner, or you know, or you just like supporting small businesses. You know, we encourage people to do that. We've got a growing, growing membership base, and it seems to be with every day that the Biden administration does something kind of dumb, which seems to be every day. You know, our base keeps growing.

So we're excited about that. And we would love for more and more people to listen to this message. Awesome. I'm very glad to have you on the show, and I'm glad that you guys are doing well. That was Alfredo Ortiz, president and CEO at Job Creators Network, a nonpartisan organization that advocates for pro-small business policies. Alfredo, thanks again for joining us on the show. Great.

Thank you so much. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to the Daily Signal podcast. You can find the Daily Signal podcast on Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and IHeartRadio. Please be sure to leave us for review and have five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you all tomorrow. The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. It is executive produced by Virginia Allen and Kate Trinko, sound designed by Lauren Evans, Mark Geinney, and John Pop.

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