The Daily Signal - Trump, Tariffs, and Tech: Gary Shapiro's Unfiltered Take

Episode Date: April 20, 2025

Gary Shapiro, CEO of the Consumer Technology Association and author of "Pivot or Die," discusses the pro-business policies under President Donald Trump, contrasting them with the anti-business stance of the Biden administration. Shapiro emphasizes the importance of reducing regulations and lowering tariffs for economic growth. He advocates for the United States to lead in new technologies such as AI and quantum computing while maintaining a competitive edge against China. He also highlights the critical role of innovation and underscores the importance of private sector leadership in technological and economic advancements, citing his experiences and insights from the technology industry. 00:00 Introduction and Trump's Pro-Business Stance 01:00 Current Events and Technology Policies 03:10 Tariffs and Economic Policies 07:52 Global Competition and Innovation 16:49 China's Technological Advancements 19:41 Government and Technological Innovation 23:48 Leadership and Innovation 27:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts #TechPolicy #GaryShapiro #TrumpAdministration #Tariffs #BidenVsTrump #China #AmericanManufacturing #AI #ImmigrationReform #ElonMusk #EconomicPolicy #Technology #TradePolicy #GovernmentReform #SiliconValley #CES2025 #DailySignal The Daily Signal cannot continue to tell stories, like this one, without the support of our viewers: https://secured.dailysignal.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Certainly, there's a great reason to cheer the fact that President Trump won with a Congress that's Republican and conservative because it's theoretically pro-business. For me, I'd say one of the highlight moments in my career to see the inauguration and to see five of my CEOs standing behind the president. That's true, right? After four years of frankly hell under President Biden, which was so anti-business, so anti-technology, so anti-every almost everything. And knowing that, you know, even in the first term, President Trump really rolled back. a lot of the burden of regulation that was choking innovation, choking our economy, choking our country. Now, it's part of, I think, the ingredients to his success.

We are joined at The Daily Signal today by Gary Shapiro. He's the CEO of the Consumer Technology Association and the author of this book, Pivot or Die. Gary, it's good to be with you. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here. You have, you and I've spoken in the past about your previous book, Ninja Future. It's good to have always a return visitor.

There's so much happening in the world of technology. I do want to get to the book, but I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about some of the current events that we're seeing right before our eyes. You have not been one to shy away from your views on some of the president's policies, particularly as they impact technology companies. Tariffs, obviously being one of the big ones. What are your thoughts on the first couple of months of this Trump administration? Well, you know, I certainly there's a great reason to cheer the fact that President Trump won with a Congress that's Republican and conservative, because it's theoretically pro-business. And for me, it was, I'd say, one of the highlight moments in my career to see the inauguration

and to see five of my CEOs standing behind the president. That's true, right? After four years of, frankly, hell under President Biden, which was so anti-business, so anti-technology, so anti-almost everything. It was, and knowing that, you know, even in the first term, President Trump really rolled back a lot of the burden of regulation that was choking. innovation, choking our economy, choking our country. Now, it's part of, I think, the ingredients to his success with the economy as for President

Trump. And it was a brutal four years under Biden, so I welcome that. I mean, I'm a member testified in Congress the first time when Trump was first elected about the value of cutting back one, five regulations for every new one. And I said, this is great. This is what we should be doing as a country. We should be looking at these old things and getting rid of them because we are in a competitive of world. And I still think we'll see that under President Trump. I mean, he's made some really

great cabinet picks. There's a commitment to our relation. I wish you'd go a little further. I wish you would take on lawyers, for example, because there's a litigation tax in our country, which is unseemly. And it's been my whole career, it's been difficult. We have more lawyers per capita than anybody. And around the rest of the world, when other countries' leaders complain to me, I said, well, at least you don't have the lawyers. We'd be happy to export some, and we'll trade you for your goods. You could have our lawyers. Because I really think lawyers are in large part, part of the problem our economy faces. It's a bigger challenge in the U.S. and anywhere else.

But having said that, yeah, there are some things that I'm not thrilled about. How can we be thrilled about tariffs? I mean, especially we learn a lesson. I have an economics degree, and to 99.9% of the economists in the country would agree. The tariffs are taxes. They're not paid for by some other country or some other company. They're paid for it by the people who buy the products. And especially for the poorer Americans, which the Republican Party has done a great job of going after,

those people won't be able to buy a lot of the products at the lowest prices that they were used to buying them, and it'll affect them dramatically. And also, President Trump ran because Biden drove up inflation with a huge amount of government spending, but also the policies we're talking about. So to fight inflation, having tariffs is just a countervailing force. It's absolutely huge. And there's no question about it. This is not really subject to debate. I mean, there are some scenarios where tariffs make a lot of sense. They make sense for defense equipment. They make

sense for shipbuilding. They make sense for a lot of things that are important to our future strategies as a country. But I'll tell you something. Inflation's really important to the American public. What's important to us as an organization is the health of the U.S. economy. We, as a basic fundamental principle of our 1,200 companies, U.S. technology companies that I represent we do not ask the government for money for our industry. We think that the federal debt is a mortal threat to our economy, and we're paying like now 5% interest on $36 trillion in debt. I mean, the numbers add up to the trillions per year we're paying an interest

that if we could drive inflation down, which we could do, Trump has all the tools to do it. He has the brains and he has the willpower to do it. Cut the government spending. That's a great way of doing it. and also keep barriers to business low and consumers will win. Our interest expense will go down and the debt will go down, hopefully after we get the deficit down at least a couple of times.

And what Musk is doing with Doge, I mean, it's brutal and it's tough and it hurts, and it may not be the scalpel, it might be, but it's the right intentions. And I think it's a support of even a lot of Democrats, and definitely independence of course Republicans. So I think it's there. We have all the ingredients there, but we're messing it up with tariffs. Well, and to your last point there on the support for reducing or making the government more efficient, I mean, poll after poll suggests that there's an appetite for that across parties.

I mean, obviously Bill Clinton, Barack Obama all said the same types of things. You're right. Now that somebody's actually doing it, it's a different scenario. Doing it stuff. But it's important. Let me ask you. You mentioned the CEOs who were at the inauguration. Are they in President Trump's year telling him about the consequences of some of these policies that you're talking about, specifically tariffs, or are they more hands-off now that things are maybe out of their control?

I'm not going to pretend that I'm talking to those CEOs and asking them what they're doing, but I will say that the CEOs from the business roundtable to other major trade groups in Washington, CEOs have been across the board reluctant to say anything publicly criticizing the president. They have an obligation of their shareholders. Let's be honest, President Trump does not welcome public disagreements. And no one wants to be targeted. And that includes a lot of members of Congress of both part. Well, obviously the Democrats, they feel their job is to criticize Trump no matter what he does. But Republicans who know better are biting their tongues and rolling their eyes and they're fearful. And we're also seeing it from business leaders across the board.

But on the other hand, look, my job as a head of an industry association is to stand. enough for the industry. That's what we do. And there's no question that in my world, there's very little support for tariffs. But I talk to CEOs across other industries as well. No one thinks this is a good idea because the uncertainty it's caused in terms of business planning is so dramatic. Just take the fall off in international travel that it's occurring right now. Today, as we speak, the forward-looking OIG guide, hundreds of thousands of seats are being canceled from flights into the U.S. The rest of the world is becoming angry with us. us. We rely on travel and tourism as a country. It's a great way to get revenue without providing

a lot of service, frankly. Not a wise move for all the hotels, for all the airlines, for restaurants, for the hospitality world, upsetting the rest of the world from a defense point of view, all our allies, going after Canada, for God say, going after Europe, going after democratic-free countries that would share our views. Look, we are putting aside my own selfish needs as an industry, as an American. We all share this common view, Democrats and Republicans and independents, that we like our liberty. We like our independence. We like our First Amendment. We like all these things that we just take for granted. But the future, we're up against China. That's where the action is. And China, they do social ranking. Everyone, they control the media.

They own the media. It's unbelievable whether the social rank determines whether you can fly, where you are ranked on a dating service, where you are ranked on a dating service, they can get in, what hotels you can go to, everyone is ranked. We do not want this. We're fighting for the future of our children and our grandchildren, and we have to win these battles. And the battle are over economic issues as much as they're military ones. Military, obviously we have to focus on our military.

And I applaud President Trump, and I have confidence that'll do that. You know, I want to see ships built here, too. I want to see all these things. But in terms of going after the technologies of the future, which I will also give Trump credit, who continued, in a sense, what Biden did, would continue with, what Trump one did is there's a focus on important technologies like artificial intelligence and quantum computing and robotics and things like that. The vice president gave a phenomenal speech to the Europeans about it because the Europeans, you know what? They're pretty good at democracy,

but all they care about is privacy. They don't care about innovation and they export their regulations as much as I love going to Europe and their democracies and their food. We don't share the same view. We are like Goldilocks and a three-be. We're right in the middle. We want that portage just the right way you have to balance privacy and you have to balance innovation. Innovation is so important to our American future. That's where our focus should be. And we don't need from government money to do it. What we need is the best environment possible to extract the best and the brightest from around the world, which has been our strategy to encourage people to come here. As Trump has even said, we shouldn't be kicking people out when they get their PhDs in these necessary sciences. And we have to change our immigration policy, which I think Trump is willing to do. I love the fact that he's willing to sell us.

certain number of things for $5 million. What I suggest is we get rid of a lot of chain immigration, say if you're bringing someone here, you have to pay for them, all their health care, everything in Social Security, buying into the system, then you could bring your relatives here from abroad. That would cut back on chain immigration. It would allow us to raise the money for those that do come and pay their own way. And it would also free up and say, who do we want here? We need nurses. We need doctors. We need engineers. We need health care works. Let's get them here. And that's what we should be doing. Gary, thank you for that answer. And I want to zoom out and talk about the Consumer Technology Association. You've had a lot of experience, witnessing change, leadership in the

industry during your tenure there. You've written several books on various topics. What stands out in your mind kind of at this age we are with AI on the horizon and changing so many jobs in the country? What is it that you're advocating for at the consumer technology? What is it that you're advocating for at the Consumer Technology Association, whether it be on policy or what are you hearing from some of the groups that are members? Well, I think the most important thing that the United States can do in addition to protecting ourselves from a military point of view and protecting our rights under the Constitution is really to focus on the fact that there's this battle for the future that that affects our economy and it affects these new technologies like quantum and AI and robotics

and biologics and things like that. Where we have the artificial intelligence, we have the brains. We are the most creative country in the world by almost every definition. And we have everything. But it's not a divine right for us to be that way. I mean, we'd like to think it is because our whole lives we've lived it. We owe it to the next generation to continue it. We have to be conscious of that. And what I'm fighting for is the future of our children and our future of our democracy because I believe in this country deeply. And I want policies which encourage American innovation. Now, we run the largest innovation event in the world. 40% of the people that come to CES in Las Vegas every January are from outside the U.S.,

which is great for our economy. But it's also great because we are one of the few events in the world that's based in the U.S. It's the global event. It's innovation. And the American companies there, whether it's John Deere or Oshkosh or all these other greater intel, the chip companies and others, they're there because they're innovative. But there are other companies and other countries that see their. value in what we're doing. President Macron of France was a regular there, and he pushed entrepreneurship.

But as I remind him, entrepreneurs are a French word, but so is bureaucrat. And that's what I like about President Trump. He recognizes that bureaucracy is a risk factor and a potential big danger for innovation. And that's why I think we're doing some of the right things. So we have to say, look, these are the technologies of the future. Don't throw money at us. We shouldn't be asking for money. We should be creating an environment here so it happens in the United States. So we get the people here, with the degrees and the colleges and things like that. So we're future. We also have this tremendous,

we're still the crawling in terms of this artificial intelligence thing. We could do so much. I mean, I was not a big supporter of President Obama or what he did with healthcare, but the fact is now that the doctors around the country have electronic medical records which detail how every patient has been treated.

And we can now capture that data and using generative AI, and of course, anonymizing, protecting the privacy rights. We can figure out what works and what doesn't, and what can work in the future based on age and sex and race. And yes, these things matter as I've even had to explain to Republicans, you should be able to discriminate on the basis of all these physical characteristics.

Because in the healthcare world, that is what makes a difference. It could be your diet, your genetics, your DNA, you know, what year you were born, where you live, the food you eat, all these things matter. And of course, the treatments you get matter. But when medicine has been horrible about is figuring out actually what works. doctors and I'm married to a doctor's family. My wife's a doctor. They do what they've been taught. And that's what they keep doing. And moving them off the dime on that to new things like focused ultrasound, which is a great thing that I'm on a board of a foundation for, which allows

basically outpatient cures rather than chemo or radiation or surgery. And it's a great thing that we have in America and we're exporting around the world. These are important developments which are coming along. But moving doctors, you have to do through education. You have to do through proof. And the way you get the proof is not through these lengthy, peer-reviewed things and things like that. You do it by proving going backwards and looking and seeing what works and what doesn't work. And we are in a position now to be able to do that. So this opportunity in health care to cut back on health care costs, which is a huge part of our budget now, is something that's real and it's out there. And also, I think AI is going to solve a lot of these factories that are going to be run.

They're going to be run and built in the right way. And, you know, I encourage U.S. factories to be built. But let's be honest, it's going to take 20 or 30 years to build them. It's not going to happen in the next few years. We don't have the skills, as Tim Cook of Apple said. It would be a very small room that filled the skill people who know how to build the factories here. China has several convention centers full of those people. If we're going to go on that, and it is a good long-term strategy, it doesn't require tariffs.

We just have to say this is what we're going to do and here's how we're going to do it and make it happen because we could do that. But to think that we're going to have all these new jobs for factories is even the Commerce Secretary has said, not going to happen. These are going to be highly automated factories, and we need people who can fix them. We need people who can build them. And most of the jobs are in a construction industry. At the same time, though, I want to recognize in the short term, we've had this disaster in California and disasters in the Carolinas with natural disasters. We have housing shortage. We need people who could build things. That's true. And about 50% though of the construction world are people who are people who are not here legally, but they have a lot of skills. We've got to figure out how we could

work this out so we have enough people to build something. stuff here, which we don't have now. Still, one of the biggest problems our members have is hiring Americans to do things because there's a shortage of workers out there now. You know, the way we measure unemployment is obviously antiquated. You have to have been looking for a job in the last year. The unemployment rate may be a little higher, and we're encouraging people not to work now. I don't think we should be doing that.

I think we should be encouraging people to work. We need the workers. We need the skills training. We have to, I love what President Trump and with Ivanka did is encouraging community colleges and skills-based learning. We've got to make so that people with skills have the same status in our society as people with college degrees. And I think that President Trump can make that happen. Absolutely.

So we have the opportunities. We have all the ingredients here. But yes, I am frustrated because instead of doing that, we're focusing on isolating the U.S. from the rest of the world, which is not good for our defense. It's not good for our national security. It's not good for our advances in technology. We want to people do what they've done before. As President Reagan said, the shining city on the hill for the rest of the world, that's who we are. We want people to want to come here.

Other countries don't have the immigration problems. We have the problem because people want to come here. Well, we should say who we want here and go after those people. Let me ask you. You have mentioned China a couple of times. Where is China making advancements in technology that the United States should be most concerned about? In everything. Everything.

So, you know, five years ago, ten years ago, I'd go around in my first book, about 20 years ago, I talked about China's the threat and here's what we have to do. Certainly the threat has gotten worse. You know, I said we've got to cut our debt in deficit. We've got to invest in skilled education. They're not listening to you, Gary. They weren't listening to me. I feel like I should be fired for my job because our priorities have not been met under

Democrats and Republicans. The debt is triple or quadrupled since my first book. And some of the things, yeah, focusing on broadband deployment, things like that, and competition has been good. But generally, we are having a problem. But China now, if people say, oh, China is just a copy year, which is what I've been saying for years, it's not true anymore. They are hungry. They're quick. They take the fastest road. They work 16, 18 hours a day. They work on weekends. They are hungry. And they have a culture,

which, although it's very suppressed people, and a lot of them are dying to come there. We have probably millions of Chinese living in the U.S. illegally at this point, because they come here and they want to stay here. Because this is a better place to work, which is great. But we really, I think we have to focus on the fact that if you're here, we're the ones who have to want you here. So there's a whole separate Chinese economy going on in the U.S. right now, and we have to deal with it. You know, I'll be honest with my kids speak fluent Mandarin. I have a 16-year-old and a 12-year-old. My wife and I have been to China a whole bunch of times pre-COVID. I don't think I'll ever be welcome back there because of some of the things I say I'm probably subject to arrest.

But they have a very bright future in terms of the strategies they're employing. Because, for example, the artificial intelligence, they have no privacy. They have, all their health care information is in one government body, 1.4 billion people. They have data sets that are unbelievable. They don't have these hearings about DEI and privacy and all that. They just go and do it. And they're doing good job and they're starting to innovate. And they're educating and graduating about a million engineers a year.

So, yeah, they're out there and they're hungry. But on the other hand, we could still get some of their best people here if we try. And, you know, they've been stealing, they've been trying to get a lot of the Chinese back that have come to universities. They are from a lot of money. They are from big things. They have a whole project. They're very strategic. They, I remember I went to their vice premier speaking at the Brookings Institution a dozen years ago.

And she laid out everything they're going after. And that's what they've done. They've gone after robotics. They've gone after AI. They're going after quantum. They're going after all these things. And we have to be very, very careful. We have to be smart about it.

And I think what Trump has laid out with his office science and tech. policy about we're going after these things to is a very wise decision. We talked about Elon Musk earlier. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about what he's trying to do in terms of bringing technology to update the way that government operates itself. I mean, he specifically talked about the Social Security Administration, how outdated it is in terms of how they're keeping paper records in a cave in Pennsylvania. Do you think that there is an opportunity to make some innovations at the federal government level

or even the state and local government level that could create some of those success stories like you highlighted in the healthcare industry. Absolutely. I mean, there's no question about it. I mean, it's whether Musk is the right person is a separate discussion. I mean, he's running five companies still,

which is the guy's an advanced form of human being is all I could say. I mean, he's brilliant. And I would recommend Walter Isaacson's book about him. Yes, it's an excellent book. Because he's really, I mean, he's so personally involved, but he's only one person. And I'm sure he means well in his own way,

but it's, it's, there's huge opportunities for technological advance. And then we have bright people in Congress who comes from the technology world, like Darryliza, our former chairman of our board, who is very focused on technology in government. But it does require some financial investment. I mean, it is a reality. You have to spend money to upgrade your technology.

And I said, we don't do government procurement as an organization. So I, you know, as I said, we don't ask for money for it. So I'm not here arguing for that, but I'm saying, obviously technology made a difference. I was part of my best friend and roommate was the first worldwide chief technology officer of a state in Virginia, and we did it on a bipartisan basis. We did the world's first Internet laws, and the whole world adopted those laws. And that allowed business on the Internet, electronics, because everything. It propelled the U.S. for it very quickly. I mean, why did we lead on the Internet?

Because we had a government that has a history of not stopping new technology. Europe has a history of stopping new technology, and if they see something they want to tax it or regulate it, We have the right mindset, but we always have to be on guard because there are business interests that are out there, always trying to stop technology. I mean, we have a crazy proposal we're fighting, which seems so unbelievable. It's the mandate AM radio in every car. I mean, could you imagine, like, and one of the biggest opponents of that, of course, is Tesla because they have a car that you don't have an AM radio because it's a hostile environment for AM. And, of course, cars will be sold with AM radios for years for people that want them. But just to take it out and to require a Chinese man.

made product in an American car by Congress, which is what they're considering now, it just makes my head want to blow up. We started in 1924 as the Radio Manufacturers Association. I'm probably the first Washington person who says, I don't want our product mandated. Why should consumers have to buy this antiquated product? But the problem is, you know, the broadcasters who are fighting the technology world. They're broadcast. They go out to big audiences, and they're having a tough time competing with these narrowcast audiences that come from a podcast and programs like yours and other that are out there that reach the people that they want to reach. But what Washington has done a great job, and we've done it as a country,

we don't listen to the old industries fighting for government to protect themselves. And that's what Heritage has done a good job at. Heritage has said, don't protect the old industries. Let's welcome the new industries. And that's what we have to keep doing always, as the United States, be out there, welcome the innovators, welcome the entrepreneurs, attract them, make sure we have good universities, frankly, that are unbiased where people could give opinions and things like that.

I mean, there's a lot to be said for what Trump's doing right now, but you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I mean, some of the brightest people, the brightest, we want to make sure we could attract the smartest people to teach at our universities. At the same time, we have to respect a whole variety of views there, which obviously has not been doing. I mean, this whole, the thing of the DEI statements for every university is hiring people that you have to fill it out. The pendulum was so far out of whack. It has to swing back. And that's what we're doing right now. And I think what, you know, Musk and the president and others are trying to do makes a lot of sense.

As long as we keep our eye on a long game, which is we want to be the innovator of the world. We want to make sure it happens. And the U.S. is number one in the world in almost every measure. Well, that's a great opening to ask you about the book, Pivot or Die. It's about leadership and the different types of pivots that you write about. You read about four of them. What inspired you to write this and share the lessons that you've learned throughout your career? Well, being head of their organization since 1991 and dealing with these CEOs around the world and government leaders, you see which businesses succeed and which don't.

And it says, you know, the great geneticist Darwin said it's not the fastest, it's not the strongest. It's those that adapt the quickest. And in business, especially as we saw with COVID, which was really a, I mean, it was horrible. But there was a silver lining is that businesses instead of copying their competitors, all of a sudden they went in different directions. They started innovating and they tried different things. I mean, Best Buy within like four days of the U.S. closing down, Cory Barry, their CEO, went out there, and she was delivering products to cars.

And there's so many examples of that with COVID, which has really propelled our health care system with telemedicine, telemonitoring, all these different things, and gotten rid of some really crazy rules about you have to practice in this state and that state and do all that. We really got to approach us with a thing like, what will make us best as a country. And there's so many ways to pivot now,

and you've got to move quickly. The challenge is, and, you know, some of the, like a lot of the Asian cultures, for example, is very consensus oriented and group think. And even if it's bad, it's like you can't disagree. So what we're good in the U.S. is we're good because of our First Amendment. We're good at disagreeing with each other, actually. And even with all the division that goes on, we could work in a workplace and come up with different points of view and come up with the best thing for the company. But ultimately, there is a system where you have leadership and people decide things. And it's not the government deciding. It's the

beauty of private enterprise which decides. And we have this success for it, which is amazing. I just, first of all, don't, we don't want to mess it up. We want to encourage innovation and entrepreneurship in years and small business. 80% of our companies are small companies. And we go out of our way at CES, for example. We have a whole area called Eureka Park, and we subsidize it for startups. And we also, we have this program where we recognize that we have an issue in society.

Maybe it's not a cool place to say it, but that people give money to people that look like them. So we have a $15 million fund we created that gives money to, organizations which invest in people that have not been funded. Veterans, disabled people, minorities, women. And if theirs to have an idea, they can't get funding. So we say, we want to support that because that's a breakage in our system right now, that we want to make sure, because good ideas could come from anywhere. As I tell my own employees, it doesn't matter who you are, good ideas can from anywhere. And we are a nation of great ideas and doers. And we have to perpetuate that. And we have to look with the gaps. For example, the Head Start program is a

gap that I think has been one of the most successful government programs. My view, there's other programs, the boys and girls clubs, they take minority kids and they encourage them to stay in school and do things. Some programs do work. They could be private funded. They could be government funded. We're choosing to give our money to help the gap in funding of startups. That's great. And I mean, obviously, coming from a conservative perspective, I think that oftentimes the private sector can do a better job than government. It's something that we've seen in particularly the welfare state, where churches used to play a much bigger role than they do now and the government has tried to step in. But I appreciate your point about innovation. I mean, it's something that we've tried to do

at the Daily Signal where we've seen gaps in the market and we can pivot in that direction. And it's one of the reasons why we thought that there needed to be alternative voices on Capitol Hill covering Congress and why we've invested so heavily in building up a reporting team for that. And so I do appreciate the advice. I love leadership books. And this was This was excellent. Gary, I'd like to close. You have built a huge following on platforms like LinkedIn. What are some ways that our viewers, listeners, can keep tabs on your work and what's on your mind? Well, certainly LinkedIn, our website, cta.com, T-E-C-H, our trade show, CES, which attracts 140,000 people from around the world. It's not open to the public, but if you have a business interest or your media, we, of course, welcome.

Or if you have an idea and you want to exhibit it. We want to make it so a startup. could get there and be exposed to 6,000 media and tens of thousands of bars. It's truly amazing. Every January, what a way to start the year. It's inspiring because you see the future and you see that some of these fundamental problems of mankind, whether it's food or health care or clean air, clean water, are going to be solved. And we'll fight over other things like social issues, I'm sure, especially in the U.S., but the reality is this is the place we wanted to see it happen. And we can if we do it right and government has to get it right. And that's why I think your coverage is so important to get the facts out there and provide a different perspective.

Gary Shapiro, thank you for writing the book. Thank you for your leadership of the Consumer Technology Association. Appreciate you being with The Daily Signal. Thank you very much for having me. Subscribe to get the news. The legacy media won't tell you and only the Daily Signal can bring to you.