Vietnam Veteran, College Student United Through Power of Story
00:06This is the Daily Signal podcast for Thursday, November 11th.I'm Doug Blair.And I'm Virginia Allen.To all of our veterans listening today, thank you.We are grateful for your sacrifice every day.But we are honored today to have time to specifically express our gratitude to you and the sacrifices that you and your families have made.We will never know the extent of that sacrifice.So truly, thank you.
00:36And it's my honor today to sit down with a Vietnam veteran Fred Shirley and Arizona StateUniversity student Jim Lednicki. Mr. Shirley and Jim have a powerful and a unique friendship.They were paired together in a program called the Veterans Heritage Project.The program matches students with veterans and veterans are given the opportunity to sharetheir story with a student who then records that story.Mr. Shirley and Jim join the show today to talk about what they learned from each other and how we can all honor our veterans today.Before we get to Virginia's conversation with Jim and Fred, let's hit the top news stories of the day.Inflation has hit a new 30-year record.
01:33On Wednesday, the Labor Department reported that the Consumer Price Index has risen by 6.2% since this time last year.That is the most dramatic inflation increase America has seen since December 1990.The Consumer Price Index includes items Americans buy on a regular basis such as gasoline and groceries.Experts estimated that the price index would increase by about 0.6% a month, but in reality, it has grown by 0.9% a month.Energy prices alone have risen by 30% over the past 12 months.Seema Shaw is the chief strategist at Principal Global Investors.She says inflation is clearly getting worse before it gets better.The American Medical Association's recently released Advancing Health Equity Guide has come under fire
02:26after it was revealed that the document contained pro-critical race theory contentas well as criticisms directed towards ideas like meritocracy, individualism, and the free market.Advancing health equity is a 55-page book.released on October 28th and begins by stating it is critical to address all areas ofmarginalization and inequity due to sexism, class oppression, homophobia, xenophobia, and ableism.Per Fox News, the report goes on to explain that it is impossible to solve equity-based problemsby focusing only on individuals, their behavior, or their biology.Instead, it encourages group and political-based action to achieve equity goals.
03:08A glossary of terms the American Medical Association deems relevant for the guide includes critical race theory, as well as as asexual, cultural appropriation, environmental justice, genderqueer, racial justice, social justice, white fragility, and white supremacy.One of the critics of the American Medical Association's guide was Heritage Action for America.Heritage Actions executive director Jessica Anderson gave a statement to Fox News, saying, this document,published by the largest medical association in the country is a brazen attempt to politicizethe medical field and subject health care workers to far-left speech police.While the left continues to falsely claim that CRT isn't real, Americans are noticing what's happeningand they're fighting back. From the waiting room to the classroom, families are standing upto reject this racist ideology.
04:00America's most elite private K-12 schools are teaching critical race theory. That'saccording to a new study by criticalrace.org founded by Cornell Law Professor William Jacobson.Out of the top 50 most elite private schools in America, Jacobson found that 21 have mandatory anti-racism training for students,and 40 of the schools have changed their curriculum in some way based on anti-racism, diversity, equity, and inclusion, or critical race theory.Some of the schools included in the study are Groton School in,Groton, Massachusetts, the Brearley School in New York City, and the Sidwell Friends School inWashington, D.C. The study is especially timely as some on the left continue to deny thatcritical race theory is being taught in schools. Last week, MSNBC's Nicole Wallace said the teaching
04:55of critical race theory isn't real. Jacobson told Fox News his study proves how deeply the racializationof education has penetrated.Now stay tuned for my conversation with Vietnam veteran Fred Shirley and Arizona State University student Jim Lednicki as we honor our veterans today.Conservative women. Conservative feminist. It's true. We do exist. I'm Virginia Allen and every Thursday morning on problematic women, Lauren Evans and I sort through the news to bring you stories and interviews that are of particular interest to conservative leaning or problems.women. That is women whose views and opinions are often excluded or mocked by those on the so-calledfeminist left. We talk about everything from pop culture to policy and politics. Search forproblematic women wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Veterans Day. Today it is my honor to welcome tothe show Vietnam veteran Fred Shirley and Arizona State University student Jim Lednicki.
06:07Gentlemen, thank you both so much for being here today.Thanks for having us.Well, Jim, I would love to start with you.You met Mr. Shirley through a really unique program called Veterans Heritage Project.What is that?What is the Veterans Heritage Project?So Veterans Heritage Project is meant to connect students with veterans.So it's in middle schools, high schools, and colleges in Arizona and across the country.
06:38And basically what it is is students in the program are presented with the opportunity to interview veterans about their military service.And then after the interview process, the students write and edit the stories that they wrote about their service.And then those are compiled each year and publish in a book called Since You Asked.And since you asked, along with the video interviews, is archived at the Library of Congress.That's so wonderful.I have a copy from a couple years ago of one of those books since you ask.It really is a beautiful, essentially work of art and piece of history.All of these stories of veterans' lives so beautifully told by, like you say, high schoolers, middle schoolers, college students.
07:30So, Jim, you were matched with Mr. Shirley to tell his story.How many times did you all meet for interviews and to discuss the story?So we did one initial interview that was probably two and a half to three hours long.Oh, wow.We covered, yeah, it was long, but we had a lot of time to cover because Fred served for a very long time in the Army.And so that was kind of our initial contact.I interviewed him, went through the process of writing his story.He actually sent me his after-action report from the Tet Offensive that he wrote back after he got back from Vietnam.
08:13And that was really helpful.So I wrote this story over the course of about three weeks to a month.And then I sent Fred a copy of it.He reviewed it.We went back and forth quite a bit to kind of fix any mistakes and hammer out all the details to make sure that it was accurate.to his service and his time in the military.And so we talked a lot during that time,and I got to know Fred pretty well throughout that time.
08:45So how long have you all known each other now?Let's see.We did the interview Fred maybe a year ago, I think.Okay.You know, it was before Christmas.Yeah.And we really weren't able to meet each other face to face because of COVID.Yeah.
09:03No, that makes sense.Well, Mr. Shirley, you served in the U.S. Army for over 20 years from 1962 to 1983.What was it like for you to sit down with a student, answer there are many, many questions about your life and military service,and ultimately to trust Jim to write your story?Well, one thing good about Jim is he's, though I'd rather he'd be going into the Army, he's going into the Marine Corps.when he graduates from college.So I was talking to being interviewed by someone who was very interested in the military.And, you know, he was just doing more than interviewing me.
09:49I think he was kind of trying to pick my brain to see what it was like to be a platoon leader, a company commander.And he was very good at getting that information out of me on what it takes.to be a leader of, in his case, Marines.Jim, were you apprehensive that first time that you sat down with Mr. Shirley for the interview?I don't think I was apprehensive, but I definitely, before every interview, I get a little nervousbecause you never know what to expect. Every interview is unique and different, and soit's never the same experience. So I get a little nervous beforehand, but, you know,I mean, it might be understandable.
10:36But as soon as friend and I got talking, we really just had a conversation about his time in the military.And it was just a great conversation.And it was really good.Mr. Shirley, what do you think of the piece that Jim wrote?It's nine pages in total.It tells so much of your background and your experience in Germany and Vietnam and the U.S.What do you think of the story?I think he did fantastic.
11:06I didn't know I had done all those things.And I think it was a big help that he had a copy of the After Action Report during the Tet Offensive of 1968 in Vietnam that I wrote.And that was a big help, I think, to him because, and to me, because I've forgotten a lot of the details of those three months.So I emailed him a copy of it and he hasn't.So what was it like to sit down and read a story about your own life?Well, let me first say, I had a little advantage on this interview for probably 15 years.I was a volunteer speaker for the Joe Foss Institute.I don't know if you're familiar with the Joe Foss Institute, but in some ways,
12:02similar to your organization, but Joe Foss was a Medal of Honor recipient in World War IIin the Battle of Guadalacanau. And he lived here in Scottsdale, Arizona, and his later life. And prior tohis death, he and his wife, they decided that they felt that as he traveled around the country,that young people didn't have very much patriotism. So he started to Joe Foss, he started to Joe Fossi.Fos Institute. First, it was just combat veterans and then it became veterans. We go out andspeak to students from early kindergarten through high school. So I volunteered for the program. And likeI say, I talked to probably about 40,000 students over that period of time here in the Phoenix, Arizonaarea. So I kind of told you. So I kind of told you.
13:02my story more than once.Depending on the group,it was a little different.The most inquisitive group were the kindergartners,and the seniors in high school were probably the least inquisitive.That's sad to hear.Yeah.Well, what was the reason, Mr. Shirley,
13:23that you first decided that you wanted to serve your country in the military?Well, I was born and worse.in D.C. and grew up in Maryland, just outside of D.C. While I was in high school, I thought I mightwant to go to the Naval Academy, which was only about 35 miles up the road from my house where I grew up.And so I went and going up there to participate in the physical, and I found out I wascolorblind. Well, they don't really like colorblind naval officers.because of all the signals, et cetera, with the ships, et cetera.So that was kind of out of the picture.
14:10And though I thought something of West Point,I was offered a football scholarship to the Virginia Military Institute in Lexington, Virginia.And so I went there four years, lettered in football, three years,and I was commissioned a second lieutenant in armor in June,of 1962, and Veterans Day that's coming up is kind of meaningful to me for more reasons than one.But one of the most important is that on November 11, 1962, I entered active duty in Fort Knox, Kentucky.Excellent. Well, thank you for your service, and especially this Veterans Day. That is a special, specialmemory all these years later. Jim, I would love to ask you to read just a portion of the story
15:06that you have written about Mr. Shirley, if you would. Perfect. Fred was activated on November 11th,1962, which is why Veterans Day holds special significance for him. The Army sent him to Fort Knox,Kentucky to the U.S. Army Armor Officer Basic Course. The officers sent to Fort Knox underwent eightweeks of basic training. Fred graduated from the course in January of 1963. In February, Fred was sent toGermany to join second squadron, third cavalry, known as the Brave Rifles. He boarded a World War IIAir Liberty ship in Brooklyn, New York, which stopped in England to drop off Navy personnel before landingin Bermorhaven, Germany. From Bermorhaven, he took a train to Kaiser Schlotten, where he tookcommand of the 30-some mim of third platoon troop E. Excellent. Excellent. Thank you.
15:55much. And it is, like I said, it's an excellent story. Nine pages in total. That's no easyfeat to capture essentially 20 years of someone's life in one story. Jim, as you were writing thestory, as you were doing the interviews with Mr. Shirley, what was something that impacted you,that stood out to you about his story? So I think the thing that stood up to me about talking with Fredabout his story is just how humble he was about the whole thing. I mean, Fred is someone who has a lot to beproud of, but he treats it with such humility. He doesn't, you know, see it in any other way thanhim serving his country. That's what he did. He did his job, and he did it to the best of his ability.And he's not one to boast about it, and he's not one to really tell you about it like he did here, unless you ask him about some of those details.
17:08And so I think Fred's humility, even though he's accomplished so much in his time in the military and his time after, just stood out to me more than anything.And I think it's, it showed me that great officers need to be extremely humble.Well, and as Mr. Shirley mentioned, you are now headed for the Marines.Has hearing his story impacted the way that you want to lead in your military service?Yes, yes, it has.As I just mentioned, leading with humility.is something that really struck me about Fred.And also really caring for those that serve under you
18:01because it is a brotherhood and sisterhood.And really knowing about, in his case, his troopersand knowing about their lives, knowing who they were,and really caring for them as a family,that really stood out to me, and it makes me want to lead my Marines the same way to care about them deeplyand to let them know that I care like Fred did.Mr. Shirley, why do you think that it's so important for students,people like Jim, to be sitting down with veterans and to be hearing your stories?
18:41Well, when I started with the Joe Foster Institute,One of the things I always mentioned to some of the older young men and women that I talked to,that if they had somebody in their family that had served, still in World War II,there would be a few of the students that would have relatives who were World War II vets in Korea,Vietnam, and on and on.and I told them that so many of the stories had been lostand they could do for their family heritagewould be to interview their great-grandfather
19:23or great-uncle or whoever it might be.Now it would be an aunt and an unclesince there are far more women in the militarythan there were when I served.And I made a point to tell themand explain to them the important.of interviewing family members and tape recorded so that they would have it to pass on totheir children someday. So when Jim asked me to, would I be willing to do this? I could hardly
19:57say no because I had for 15 years talked to young people and asked them the same questionto please, you know, interview family members or a neighbor.there might be your next door neighbor or the neighbor across the street.I think that's such an excellent message and such a good reminder this Veterans Day to be asking those questions.Are there any, Mr. Shirley, what advice would you give to, really to anyone who's maybe sitting down with a neighbor, with a family member, with a grandfather, to ask the questions about their military service?What are some of the best questions that maybe Jim S.U.That you think would be valuable for us to be asking.Well, I think number one, you've got to realize that for many people, military, ex-military,
20:53or even if they're on active duty, it's very difficult for most to tell their story,especially if they were in combat.And there's an awful lot that they would be very reluctant, probably to,to say to you.You might have to work a little harder to get it out of them.But I'm sure you've heard of PTSD,and most of all who served in combat suffer from PTSD in one form or another.So you have to be aware of that when you talk to these veterans, male and female,
21:33and then, you know, slowly ask, you know, the question.questions that Jim did. Where did you grow up? What did you do as a kid? Did you, when did youdecide to go into the military? What was the event? Like somebody signed up to go in after September9-11, you know, just hundreds and hundreds of people signed up then. And then, you know,find out what type of units they were in. What was their rank? What did they, what job did they do?and the military person that they're interviewing will slowly gain your trust and you can write anamazing story and at the end they'll be very happy you did because there is something now thatthey can pass on to members of their family that'll just go down through many many generations
22:31that's wonderful thank you i love that jim for you as as a student why do youyou think that it's so important to be sitting down with veterans? What is your challenge to youngpeople to think about asking these questions? So I think that young people really need toreally need to understand that, you know, freedom isn't free to use that cliche. I mean,the freedoms that we enjoy today are a direct result of people like Fred who went and served theircountry and to those who serve their country in combat. And I think that that's lost on a lot ofyoung people today. I mean, history in general is something that doesn't get the attention itdeserves. We've kind of forgotten about American history and the history of our service members.
23:29And I think that looking at the Korean War, for example, I mean, the forgotten war, you know,tens of thousands of Americans died over there securing freedom.And I think if you ask most young people today,they wouldn't be able to point out Korea on a map,and they probably wouldn't even be able to tell you why we were there.So I think it's important for students to connect with veterans.Additionally, to see the things that they read in their textbooks are true,and to really gain a personal connection to it,
24:05because even before,I started with Veterans Heritage Project.I'd read about a lot of the conflicts in textbooks or seen it on TV,but I didn't have a personal connection to it.And until you have a personal connection to something,it's hard to really grasp the reality of it and the gravity of war.I think that's so true.Well, the Veterans Heritage Project has clubs and programs in schools all over Arizona.
24:37They're working on expanding to even more states.So if you want to find out more, all of our listeners want to find out more and learn how you can get involved and support their work.You can visit veteransheritage.org.But Jim, Mr. Shirley, thank you all so much for your time today.We really, really appreciate it.Thanks for having us.Yes.And Mr. Shirley, thank you on this Veterans Day for your service and have a very happy Veterans Day.
25:05Thank you very, very much.And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal Podcast.You can find the Daily Signal podcast on Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and IHeartRadio.Please be sure to leave us a review and a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe.Thanks again for listening. I'll be back with you all tomorrow.The Daily Signal podcast is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation.It is executive produced by Virginia Allen and Kate Trinko, sound designed byLauren Evans, Mark Geiney, and John Pop. For more information, please visit DailySignal.com.
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