The Daily Signal - Want a Pro-Life America? Look to Family and Church, Advocate Says

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

If Roe v. Wade in fact is overturned, ending abortion on demand, what happens next? Is the pro-life movement ready to meet the needs of mothers and families facing unplanned pregnancies?  Roland Warren, president and CEO of the pro-life organization Care Net, says that although pregnancy centers play a role in helping women who have unplanned pregnancies, both the church and the family have a responsibility to defend life and serve these women. The first step in creating a culture of life in America requires rebuilding marriage and family "consistent with God's design,” Warren argues. Warren joins this episode of “The Daily Signal Podcast” to discuss how families and places of worship can begin creating a culture of life in their communities.  Also on today's show, we cover these stories: Chief Justice John Roberts confirms the authenticity of a leaked draft opinion indicating the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade and its legalization of abortion on demand. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., announces that the Senate will vote on codifying "abortion rights."  Liberal activists call for packing the Supreme Court to add justices in the wake of the leaked draft. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Wednesday, May 4th. I'm Doug Blair. And I'm Virginia Allen. If Roe v. Wade is, in fact, overturned, which now it looks like it will be, what happens then? Is the pro-life movement ready to meet the needs of mothers and families facing unplanned pregnancies? President and CEO of the pro-life organization CareNet, Roland Warren, joins the show today to explain the role churches and the family, having creating a culture of life across. America. Before we get to Virginia's conversation with Roland Warren, let's hit our top stories of the day. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts confirmed on Tuesday that a leaked draft opinion,

indicating the court's intent to overturn Roe v. Wade was genuine. He also called for an investigation into how the leak happened in the first place. In a statement released Tuesday, the chief justice said, to the extent this betrayal of the confidences of the court was intended to undermine the integrity of our operations, it will not succeed. The work of the court will not be affected in any way. This was a singular and egregious breach of trust that is an affront to the court and the community of public servants who work here, Roberts added, before concluding that he was ordering the marshal of the court to investigate the source of the leak. Robert's statements also noted that the opinion in the draft is not final and that changes in votes could occur.

President Biden addressed the Supreme Court leak in remarks Tuesday via the Hill. Take a listen. I think the codification of Roe makes a lot of sense. Look, think what Roe says. Roe says what all basic mainstream religions have historically concluded. That the existence of the human life and being is the question. Is it at the moment of conception? Is it six months?

Is it six weeks? Is it quickening like Aquinas argued? I mean, so the idea that we're going to make a judgment that is going to say that no one can make the judgment to choose to abort a child based on a decision by the Supreme Court, I think goes way overboard. In a statement earlier Tuesday, Biden said if the court does overturn Roe, It will fall on our nation's elected officials at all levels of government to protect a woman's right to choose. Other Democratic leaders weighed in on the leak as well. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York announced during a speech on the Senate floor

that the body would take a vote on codifying abortion rights. Here Schumer via PBS News. Now that the court is poised to strike down row, it is my intention for the Senate to hold a vote on legislation to codify the right to an abortion in law. Second, a vote on this legislation is not an abstract exercise. This is as urgent and real as it gets. We will vote to protect a woman's right to choose,

and every American is going to see which side every senator stands. Schumer stopped short of saying that he would nuke the filibuster, requiring 60 votes for legislation to pass to achieve this legislation. Democrats Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Kristen Sinema of Arizona both reaffirmed their commitment to keeping the filibuster in place in light of increased pressure from their party to remove it. The filibuster is a protection of democracy, said Manchin on Tuesday, and Cinema agreed, saying through a spokesperson, protections in the Senate safeguarding against the erosion of women's access to health care have been used half a dozen times in the past 10 years and are more important now than ever.

Meanwhile, liberal activists have been floating for a while the idea of court packing. Court packing would increase the number of Supreme Court justices and thus effectively dilute the votes of the six justices appointed by Republican presidents who are all seen as more conservative. Now two Democrats responding to the leaked draft are renewing those calls. Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts tweeted, A stolen, illegitimate and far-right Supreme Court majority appears set to destroy the right to abortion, an essential right which protects the health, safety, and freedom of millions of Americans.

There is no other recourse. We must expand the court. Representative Ilhan Omar of Minnesota tweeted, Overturning Roe would put the lives of women across the country at risk. It would fly in the face of decades of precedent and the overwhelming majority of public opinion. And they will not stop here, expand the court. Doug, when this news came out Monday night that this was leaked, you live on Capitol Hill and you decided that you were going to go over to the Supreme Court and see the reaction from people. What was happening there?

What did you see when you got to the Supreme Court? That was what? About 10 p.m. It was about 10 p.m. on Monday night. So I heard the news and I knew that I had to go over and see what was going on. So the second I arrived, you could just tell that it was a very tense atmosphere. The pro-abortion protesters were already there in full force. They were screaming things like, we will not go back.

They were screaming obsinities about some of the justices. But eventually when it ended up happening probably around 1030, maybe 1045, is a pro-life group ended up showing up. And this pro-life group was actually quite interesting. they were not your average typical pro-life group. They were actually socialists and leftists who believed that this was a fight worth fighting, even if they disagreed with a lot of conservatives on the other issues. Lots of conflict between the two of them. Pro-life protesters and pro-abortion protesters were screaming at each other, yelling at each other.

Eventually it got to a point where there was a little bit of violence. Signs were ripped away from people's hands. There was a brief scuffle where people were pushing away the pro-life protesters. They weren't allowed to stay on the scene. But this intended, it just lasted almost four hours where when I had arrived there, it was 10, and it didn't really seem like it was dispersing around 2 o'clock when I left. Wow. Long night for you out of the Supreme Court.

Very, very long night. We certainly appreciate your reporting. And for anyone that didn't get to see Doug's videos, you can find them on Twitter or in a piece at the Daily Signal. Doug, tell us how we can find some of those videos on your Twitter. Absolutely. So if you want to follow me at Douglas K. Blair on Twitter.com, I'm over there. But also keep posted. We are going to be showing you guys what is happening at the Supreme Court.

We're going to be posting live updates on occasion about what's going on. We were out there this morning taking a look and seeing if there were still people out there. Newsflash, there are. So we're going to keep you guys posted and keep you informed about every single update to this very, very important story. Now, be sure you're following the Daily Signal across all social media platforms. We look forward to keeping you all up to date. But right now, stay tuned for my conversation with Roland Warren, as we talk about how you actually go about creating a culture of life across the United States. Americans use firearms to defend themselves between 500,000 and 2 million times every year.

God forbid that my mother has ever faced with a scenario where she has to stop a threat to her life. But if she is, I hope politicians protected by performance. professional armed security didn't strip her of the right to use the firearm she can handle most competently. To watch the rest of Heritage expert Amy Swearer's testimony on assault weapons before the House Judiciary Committee head to the Heritage Foundation YouTube channel. There you'll find talks, events, and documentaries, backed with the reputation of the nation's most broadly supported Public Policy Research Institute. Start watching now at heritage.org slash YouTube. And don't forget to subscribe and share. It is my pleasure to welcome to the show today, the president and CEO of the pro-life organization, Cairnet.

Roland Warren. Roland, thank you so much for being here. Well, glad to be with you. Now, you have been heading Cairnett since 2012. So if you would, just explain a little bit about what Cairnet is and what your mission is. Gotcha. Yeah, Cairnett actually is a ministry that started in 1975. Our founders were a theologian named Harold O.J. Brown, C. Everett Coop and Francis Schaefer and Billy Graham was involved.

And we really started specifically to try to get evangelicals and Protestants involved in the life issue. At the time, you know, Roby Wade had recently been decided. And really our Catholic brothers and sisters had been really leading the way on the issue. And a lot of Protestant and evangelical organizations were either pro-choice or indifferent. or certainly silent. And so Karen it was started from that perspective. It changed over time to move away from more sort of political advocacy, what I call compassionate advocacy, to really focus on compassionate care. So today we have a network of nearly 1,200 affiliated pregnancy centers in the U.S. and the goal of these pregnancy centers is to offer compassion, hope,

and help to women and men who are at risk for abortion. And so we're on the front lines for the life issue and very delighted to be in this important work. Yeah, it's so critical. And I think it's encouraging to hear you say that number. So many pregnancy centers across the country are involved and really kind of in this network that CareNet provides a support network. And it's encouraging that as we are looking at the possibility of Roe v. Wade being overturned to think that all across the country, there are these resources

available for women, for families. So, you know, I think when we think about the pro-life movement, like you say, you know, the work of KERNET has changed over the years. What shifts have you seen in the pro-life movement over the past decade? Well, you know, from the time that I've been here, I think, you know, from a KERNET perspective, I mean, our view has been really that there's a need to kind of change the perspective from being what we call pro-life, if you will, to be what we call pro-abundant life, which is kind of expanding how you think about that perspective. That's based on the biblical narrative of John Tintanmer,

Christ said, I came that you might have life and then have that life abundantly. And when you kind of unpack that verse and look at it in the Greek, you know, he's talking about two types of life, physical life, which is the word BIAS, where we get the word biology, B-I-O-S. But then there's also Zoe, which is a unique type of spiritual. spiritual life that only comes from a relationship with God. And so essentially what he's saying there is that I came to link your bias to my Zoe. In other words, that you may have life in the fullest. In other words, that your heartbeat may be heavenbound. And so our observation in terms of our ministry model has been, well, much of the work from the pro-life perspective is really kind of

focused on physical life, if you will, that there's a heartbeat. And that's good. Don't get me wrong. But we need to expand beyond just a physical life, but also a spiritual life. And if life begins at conception, then certainly Christ wanted abundant life, not just for those outside the womb, but for those inside the womb. And so from conception to death, so to speak, that fullness of life that we talk about. So, you know, over the last 10 years, we've really been focused on really trying to help the movement kind of expand, particularly Christian folks who are in this view, to view the issue through that lens, that it's not just about saving a baby as God honoring as that is. It's about raising a child. And so it leads to the second aspect of kind of

of how we think about this issue. If you think about the pro-abundant life perspective as a roof, there are two pillars that hold that roof up. And the first really is God's designed for family, which we kind of use the story, so to speak, the narrative of Mary facing an unplanned pregnancy from a human perspective. She had hopes and dreams for her life that did not include a child at that time and in that way. And the angel comes to her and tells her that, you know, you're going to conceive. and she doesn't focus on the uncertainty of what she doesn't know. She focuses on the certainty of what she does know. There's a life growing inside of her, and it's not a life worth sacrificing,

and says, let it be on to me, as you have said. And from a Christian perspective, we really said, you know what, that's actually the way, that's actually kind of what we're trying to do. We're trying to encourage women facing unplanned pregnancies to tap into their interim area, not to focus on the uncertainty of what they don't know, which is what the pro-choice movement wants them to do, but to focus on the certainty of what they do know. There's a life growing inside of you, but not a life worth sacrificing, but a life worth sacrificing for.

And for lots of folks, that's kind of where the story ends. But if you continue to read that narrative, which is in the first chapter, the first book of the New Testament, Matthew, you find what did God do to make sure that Mary's unplanned pregnancy wasn't a crisis pregnancy? Well, he sent an angel to Joseph. And Joseph had a plan. He was going to divorce her quietly, put her away quietly, and essentially it was kind of a cultural version of an abortion, because that's what you could do back then. you couldn't put the baby away, so you put the woman and the baby away,

and there was a specific call to Joseph to do two things, to be a husband to her and a father to the child growing inside of her. So this first pillar really is God's designed for family, and so what we want, what we think we really called to, certainly from a biblical perspective, is for us to build strong families in the context of this unplanned pregnancy, and to really be not just about the sanctity of life, but also about the sanctity of marriage and family as God designed.

because that's what you see in the biblical narrative. The first thing that Joseph was told to do was do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. Not your baby mama, your boo, your shorthy, but your wife. And so what you see there is an affirmation of the sanctity of marriage and family, even before he even knows who Jesus is. And so from our perspective of the last 10 years, what we've been saying, listen, hey, we can't just focus on the sanctity of life issue, which is kind of a pro-life narrative.

We have to focus on the sanctity of life and the sanctity of marriage and family, which is a pro-abundant life perspective so that we break the cycle of intergenerational abortion. And of course, when the woman has a guy who says, listen, I'll be a husband to you and a father to the child growing inside of you, or at least a father to the child in a committed way, well, guess what? She's more likely to give the child life, which is bias, right? So that's the first part of kind of what we talk about in terms of what we've seen and what we're trying to do in terms of this model that God's put in front of us.

Yeah, I think that's so critical because it really gets at the heart of creating a culture of life. Of course we want our laws to reflect a value for life and protect life, but it's not enough to just have that. We have to create a culture of life. And I think that's such really an accurate perspective to say we have to get the family involved in that, like at its core, that's up to creating that culture of family. And from that comes that culture of life. I think that's really beautiful. For you personally, were you always pro-life? Well, I actually never really thought about it a whole lot. Certainly when I was in my teen and college years, I always was Christian.

So, you know, the thought of abortion, you know, certainly I went to Catholic school growing up and all that kind of stuff. So it was an issue that was talked about from time to time. But frankly, I got challenged when I was 19. I got my girlfriend, actually 20, got my girlfriend who was 19 pregnant. And we were both undergrads at Princeton and when she went for the pregnancy test at students, at student health services, she was encouraged to abort because the nurse said, how are you going to graduate from Princeton with a baby? She was a sophomore. I was a junior. And she said, well, no, I want to have my baby. I want to get married. And the nurse said, well,

what do you want to be when you graduate? She says, well, I want to become a doctor. And she said, how are you going to graduate from Princeton and become a doctor with a baby? It doesn't seem like it was the right decision. And we kind of decided to move forward with the plan. And we got married. Been married. It would be 40 years, May 1st. And our son was born and smarter than both of us. He went to Harvard. So he's a smart kid. And, you know, this kid that we were encouraged in that moment to throw into a trash can,

so to speak, you know, it really kind of brought home to me what I talk about today, which was my wife, in a sense, was sort of a proverbial Mary, if you will. Pregnancy obviously didn't come in the same way in the same context, but she had hopes for her life, dreams for her life that did not include a child at that time and in that way. But what did she do? She didn't focus on the uncertainty what she didn't know. She focused on the certainty to what she did know. And certainly God had a call to me to do what, be a husband to her and a father to the child growing inside of her. So I've lived the narrative that I'm talking about and I've seen in one generation that cycle be broken. And I'm a product of a single mother home.

My mother got pregnant the first time when she was 16, 17 years old. Had me when she was 19 as well had four kids under the age of 23, under the age of 8, excuse me, by the time she was 23. So that's the environment I came from and then seeing God's design for marriage and God's design for family breaking that cycle. So two sons, both married, grandkids, all of that abundance that you see in the biblical narrative.

And I'll say this other point, which a lot of people don't think about. 86% of the women that have abortions are unmarried. 86%. And so when you're, you know, you think about that, you say, well, how are we going to solve the abortion issue without rebuilding the marriage, marriage and family consistent with God's design? So he was wise in that first chapter, the first book of the New Testament. He gave us actually the model for that. So even if you're not a Christian, the social science data says that marriage is so key because a woman who's facing a

pregnancy decision is making that decision from conception to birth based on the support she has after birth. So if she has a guy like my wife did who said, listen, I'll be a husband to you and a father to the child growing inside of you, right? She's more likely to what, have her hopes and dreams, right, fulfilled, so to speak, and she's more likely to do what? Choose life. But if she doesn't have that, then she's much less likely. And so one of the things that I've really talked about quite a bit is that the pro-life movement, we don't talk about the sanctity of marriage and family. We only talk about the safety of life for the most part. And we really should be linking those two things together, certainly from a biblical narrative, but frankly from a social science narrative as well,

if we're really serious about this issue. Well, and having really lived the story, like you say, you've lived what now you're in the middle of, your leading KERNED and in touch with so many pregnancy centers all across America. In your observation, what are the critical needs of women of families who walk in, to those pregnancy centers in the midst of an unplanned pregnancy? Well, you've really got to, you know, you've really got to ask yourself why. You know, why is she facing this unplanned pregnancy? And again, it goes back to, it might sound like a little bit like a broken record, but why is she,

why is she facing this unplanned pregnancy? Well, if you think about it, a lot of it points to the guy. We actually did a national survey of women who had abortions, and we asked them, who did you talk to about your abortion decision? And we give him a long list of folks, her best friend, her mother, her father, you know, all these different folks, bland parenthood, all of that, including the guy who got her pregnant. And she says, I talked to him more than anybody else. And then we asked who was the most influential in your decision to abort.

And guess who she picked? Him. We just finished a similar survey some months back where we asked men who had participated in abortion the same question. Who did she talk to? And the guys, far in away, said me. And then we asked who was the most influential in her decision? to abort? Well, me, the guy who got her pregnant. So here the women who faced abortion, who had abortions, and the men who participated are both saying that he's the most influential

in the decision to abort. Yet we built an entire movement for the most part that doesn't even include him in any way, shape, or form. So a key need and a key aspect of our ministry model is not just meeting her at her point of need when she comes into the door of her pregnancy center, but also engaging that guy, bringing him into the notion, lift. God sent an angel to Joseph, not a smurf or a gnome or something else. It was an equal call in the sense because that was important in terms of God's design for family. So a big part of our ministry model that shifted over the last 10 years is really the father and men's ministry piece that we've done. In fact, we just launched the first ever pro-life men's conference in Dallas in March 4th and 5th,

which you can come to our website caret-net.org to learn more about that, to see the recap of that. first time men have ever been brought together from a pro-life perspective. Why? Because we know that the data shows that the women say, and even the men say, that he's the most influential, and that's a key, key part of the movement. So that's a core need. The second need, which is really essential, is to connect those people from the pregnancy center to churches for ongoing support and discipleship. And that's actually the second pillar of the pro-abundant life perspective. God's designed for family. is the first. The second is God's call to discipleship. And the key there is for you to start thinking about the life issue, not just in a political realm, and not just through that narrative,

and not even just from a material support perspective, but view it from a Christian, certainly, as an opportunity to make a disciple for Jesus Christ, because any good work that Christians do should lead to discipleship. So we see that. Water for the thirsty, yep, food for the hungry, yep, clothes for the naked, yep, homes for the homeless, yes, we all see that as an on-ramp to discipleship. In other words, an on-ramp to not just meet a BIAS need, physical need, but also a Zoe need, which is a spiritual transformation that needs to happen. But for some reason, the life issue tends not to be viewed that way, even by Christians. So they don't see someone who's facing an unplanned pregnancy, and they don't think the first thought is, gosh, this person needs to become

a disciple of Jesus Christ. The child growing inside of her needs to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. The guy who got her pregnant needs to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. If you don't think about it that way, that instead of being transformational in terms of your pro-abundant life perspective, you're transactional. And what happens and what we're seeing is the same client coming again with a new pregnancy and a new guy. So I call it the 18-18 rule. We see her in 18 months with a new pregnancy and a new guy,

see her daughter in 18 years or someone her son got pregnant. That is transaction. That's business. That's not ministry. Christ said, come as you are, but don't stay as you came. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so this pro-abundant life perspective is a transformational perspective. And the transformational institutions are God's design for marriage, fatherhood, and motherhood

is a covenant transformational institution, and then God's call to discipleship. So that's what you see happening at our centers. We want to transition people from the pregnancy center to the church for ongoing support and discipleship. That's a key, key part of what we're about. Well, and of course, at this moment in history, this is a really critical conversation that we're having because in June, we are expecting the Supreme Court to announce its ruling on the Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization case. That case could overturn Roeby Wade.

And I recently just saw a national review article that was titled Pregnancy Centers Must Be Ready for a Post-Roe America. So, Roland, my question to you, do you think that pregnancy centers are ready for a post-Roe America? Well, I think that frankly, if you ask the wrong question, you'll get the wrong answer. I mean, here's the point. A pregnancy center model in and of itself cannot solve a post-row environment. There's only one institution that can effectively sort of handle a post-role environment in a God-honoring way, and it's actually the church. The pregnancy center world has a very specific role, an important role, from conception to birth. that's it and maybe a little bit further but if you walk into a pregnancy center with a 10 year old unless they wear diapers and drink formula ain't much that we can do for you remember she's making

that decision from conception of birth based on the support she has after birth there there are roughly what 2,500 3,000 pregnancy centers in the united states how do you how does that how do you how do you how do you solve that that way that's why the church is so critically important there's only one institution that is ideologically aligned and structurally capable of dealing with a host role environment in a God-honoring way. It's the church. We have a social services network that's structurally capable maybe at some level, but the reality is it's not ideologically aligned because if you come to a social services entity, right, and you have two kids that you can't take care of and now you come with a third, they don't ask you how you live it. They don't try to

transform your life. They just give you more services. So it repeats the cycle. See? So the pregnancies in a world ideologically aligned but not structurally capable because we only can handle things from a conception-to-birth perspective. What needs to happen is that the churches are linked and connected into this model in a very important way. There are over 400,000 churches. And so what needs to happen here is that this political perspective needs to be linked with a ministry perspective so that when Roe v. Wade is overturned, right, that folks can move from pregnancy centers to churches for transformation. And also, candidly, a lot of folks who are facing pregnancy decisions are in churches. Fifty-four percent of the women who have abortions professed to be either

Catholic or Protestant. So we have a real issue in the church with abortion where we're outsourcing the issue to Planned Parenthood, if you will, in some way, shape, or form even on our end. So for me, that's the wrong question. Are pregnancy centers ready? It's not just pregnancy centers. Let me just frame this in a different way for you to kind of illustrate that. Now, I'm a black man. I'm like this all day, right? I just leaned into it when I was a kid. okay, this is the way I wrote. When I first started doing this work, people say, oh, you know, you're a black man. I said, yeah, uh-huh. So you can connect with this because it's like slavery. It's like the slavery issue and the abolitionist movement. And I thought about it. I said, well, oh, my gosh, I hope it's not. Because what you had with the abolitionist movement was the goal of the abolitionist movement was to abolish slavery.

That was the wrong goal. That should be a tactic or strategy. The right goal should have been for black people to have the blessings of liberty, right? is in our Constitution and life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, which is in our Declaration of Independence. And so after you abolish slavery, that's not the end. That's just the end of the beginning, right? It's a tactic. Then you ask yourself, well, how do we make sure that these folks have the blessings of liberty? Well, how do we ensure that for ourselves? You can't sit around and say, well, how do we do it in our own community? Well, we engage in civil society. So that means we can't have Jim Crow laws, right? Nope, nope, can't discriminate. Nope, can't do. You see what I'm saying? So it was the wrong goal. I see exactly the same.

same dynamic happening on the life issue. If you talk to most people and you say, what's the goal of the pro-life movement? They say overturning Roe v. Wade. I say no. That's a tactic or strategy. The goal, certainly from a Christian perspective of the pro-life movement should be for kids not just have life, but have abundant life. And in order for them have abundant life, they have to have life. So therefore, that's a tactic to make sure they have abundant life. And then you ask the question, well, how do they have abundant life consistent with God's design? Well, God's designed for family. So it means we have to help them build strong families. And God's called to discipleship, which means we have to help them connect with a ministry model that's going to transform their lives.

And I'll just say this last thing on this. You know, people ask me, you know, is Roeby Wade going to be overturned? And I try to remind them of it. Roeby Wade is overturned every day. Every time a woman has an opportunity to have an abortion is faced with a pregnancy decision and chooses not to abort. She just overturned Roevey Wade in her own heart. mind. You see, when you ask that question, that means you're viewing the issue solely through a political judicial lens when the reality is our power is way beyond that if we don't limit it. It's a

power that we have that the other side doesn't have. We can turn a Starbucks into a pregnancy center anyplace because we can have a life transforming conversation with someone so that they choose life. That's exactly what happened with my wife. You see? So she overturned Roe v. Wade in her own heart and her mind, and that's a power that we have. So if it's overturned or not overturned, desperately want it to be overturned, don't get me wrong, don't get it twisted, whatever. But here's the reality is, even if it's overturned, even if it's overturned, what we should be doing is exactly what I'm talking about. We have got to build a comprehensive model that moves beyond pregnancy centers to integrate folks into God's design for family and God's call to discipleship. And that's how

you prepare for Roeby Wade. And that's a core part of Kerenet's ministry model, particularly through our Making Life Disciples ministry model, which is designed specifically to get small groups in churches to come alongside folks who are facing pregnancy decisions. So that even if there's not a guy who says, I'll be a husband to you and a father to the child growing inside of you, there's a ministry model that can walk alongside this woman and care for her and care for her child. Only the church can do that.

And for those listening who, you know, right now they are saying amen to what you're saying. and they want to be a part of kind of creating that bridge between pregnancy centers and the church. And they want to be a part of creating a culture of life in their own community. Tell us how we can get involved in the work that CareNet is doing, how we can pull on your resources. Great. Well, the first thing, you can come to our website, which is care-hyphennet.org. You can learn more about what we're doing, the pro-abundant life approach to that. We have a great booklet that I wrote called Why We Must.

be pro-abundant life, and there's another one that's titled, Why We Cannot End Abortion Without Discipleship. You can go there and get those resources from our store. But also, what I really encourage Christians to do is to go to makinglife disciples.com. And you can learn about how to establish a Making Life Disciples ministry in your church. Life decisions need life support. The reason why women have abortions and the reason why men support abortions has a lot to do with this missing support. So she can't get to her prenatal visits. You retire. Can you drive? He's running from fatherhood because he never had one. You've been a father for years. Will you mentor this young man? They've been living together for years, never seen what a good

and godly marriage looks like. You've been married for a long time. Will you mentor this couple? She doesn't have a place to live. You got an extra room. Do you see I'm saying? Life decisions need life support. And here's the thing. Regardless of what happens with the Supreme Court decision, that's the stuff that we should be doing anyway. Because as we do that, as we do that, Roe v. Wade has a death of a thousand cuts because the compassion, it's compassion that actually transforms people's lives. And that's what Christians are known for, being compassionate. So we have an opportunity to do that. So you've got to be able to take your political hat off, your judicial hat off, right, legislative hat off, and you've got to put your ministry hat on and say,

I'm going to come alongside someone who's facing a pregnancy decision to help engage that guy in the process, to help him build a strong family with her, to step in and meet those needs those decisions that life decisions that need to be supported, well, they need life support. And folks sitting in pews across this country have to mobilize in that way. So that's why articles like the pregnancy center movement, you know, needs to whatever, to me, it sells what needs to happen short here. Because reality is it's going to take way, way more than that in order for us to live in a a post-role environment, certainly in a God-honoring way.

Roland, the president and CEO of Karenet. Roland, thank you so much for your time. today. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me here. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to The Daily Signal Podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the Daily Signal podcast if you haven't already on your podcast listening app of choice. That's Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and IHeartRadio. Please leave us a review, a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage friends and family to subscribe as well. Thanks again for listening. We'll be right back here with you all tomorrow morning.

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