The Daily Signal - What a Doctor Turned Congressman Has to Say About COVID-19

Episode Date: March 24, 2020

Rep. Mark Green, R-Tenn., is an emergency room physician and an Army special operations veteran. He joins me today on The Daily Signal Podcast to discuss his perspective of the coronavirus pandemic, what the Senate relief package gets right and wrong, and why the U.S. shouldn't be dependent on China for any pharmaceuticals or medical supplies. We also cover these stories: The number of coronavirus cases in the United States continue to increase. U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams urges Americans to take the 15 day period to slow the spread of coronavirus seriously. Sen. Rand Paul tested positive for COVID-19 on Sunday. He is the first senator to receive a positive test but remains asymptomatic.  The Daily Signal Podcast is available on Ricochet, Apple Podcasts, Pippa, Google Play, or Stitcher. All of our podcasts can be found at DailySignal.com/podcasts. If you like what you hear, please leave a review. You can also leave us a message at 202-608-6205 or write us at [e-mail]. Enjoy the show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Daily Signal podcast for Tuesday, March 24th. I'm Virginia Allen. And I'm Kate Trinko. Today, our colleague Rachel Del Judas speaks with Representative Mark Green, a Republican from Tennessee. Before he became a lawmaker, Green worked as an emergency room doctor. Rachel chats with him about the coronavirus and what lawmakers can do at this time. Don't forget. If you're enjoying this podcast, please be sure to leave a review. or a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and encourage others to subscribe. Now onto our top news. The number of coronavirus cases in the United States continues to increase.

According to research from Johns Hopkins University's Coronavirus Resource Center, there are now over 41,000 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the U.S. That makes the U.S. the country with the third most cases. China still has the most cases at over 81,000 overall, and Italy has 69,000. U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams urged Americans to take the 15-day period to slow the spread of the coronavirus seriously. The Surgeon General explained on the Today Show, I want Americans to understand. This week, it's going to get bad. He continued to stress the seriousness of the situation, saying, as the nation's doctor, I'm here. to help America understand how we need to respond to this. And where I come down is that every single

day counts, every single second counts. And right now, there are not enough people out there taking this seriously. When asked about flattening the curve and limited tests for COVID-19, Adams had this to say on the Today Show. I had a tweet out yesterday where I pointed out last week, if you look at Monday to Friday, testing increased by 10-fold. Testing is definitely. significantly increased across the country. Here's the problem. We aren't testing the people who are at highest risk right now. And it's why yesterday you heard the vice president say,

and you heard me say, that we need to make sure we're prioritizing testing for our health care workers. We need to take care of the people who take care of the people, for people in hospitals, and for people who are at highest risk right now. But as Tony Fauci has said many times, and people have heard me say this, too. Everyone needs to act as if they have the virus right now. So test or no test, we need you to understand you could be spreading it to someone else or you could be getting it from someone else. Stay at home.

As huge portions of the U.S. are shut down or told to shelter in place, more and more Americans are wondering, how long will this last? President Trump tweeted late Sunday, in all caps, we cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself. At the end of the 15-day period, we will make a decision as to which way we want to go. On Monday, National Economic Council Director, Larry Cudlow, spoke to Fox News about Trump's tweet. We can't shut in the economy. The economic cost to individuals is just too great. So let's see how this thing plays out. More testing is essential, and we're loading up with tests now.

That's going to be a big help. But the president is right. The cure can't be worse than the disease. And we're going to have to make some difficult tradeoffs. I'm not to spoke to. I don't want to get ahead of the story. I spoke to the president about this very subject late last evening. So we'll be looking at a number of different things. Let's give it another week. Senator Rand Paul tested positive for COVID-19 on Sunday. He is the first senator to receive a positive test, but remains asymptomatic. Senator Paul called for more tests in a formal statement. released by his office on Monday. He said, I believe we need more testing immediately, even among those without symptoms. The nature of COVID-19 put me, and us all, in a catch-22 situation. I don't fit the criteria for testing or quarantine. I had no symptoms and no specific encounter with a COVID-19 positive person. I had, however, traveled extensively in the U.S. and was required to continue doing so to vote in the Senate. That, together with the fact that I have a compromise lung, led me to seek

testing. Despite my positive test result, I remain asymptomatic for COVID-19. The senator concluded his statement saying, thousands of people want testing. Many, like David Newman of the walking dead, are sick with flu symptoms and are being denied testing. This makes no sense. The broader the testing and the less finger-pointing we have, the better. America is strong. We are a resilient people, but we're stronger when we stand together. A massive stimulus bill continued to be negotiated on Monday, at least as of this podcast recording time. Democrats had blocked the bill's passage on Sunday. Heritage Foundation President K.C. James said in a statement, legislation to keep workers connected to employers provides stability for businesses caught in this uncertainty

and mitigate the overall economic effects of this crisis is necessary. To best accomplish these goals, legislation must be targeted, temporary, and directed exclusively at the coronavirus. This bill does not pass those tests. Generous bailouts for businesses and extradited. broad federal assistance programs won't best help those hit hardest or get our economy back up and running when the time comes. They'll do what Washington programs often do, hurt the American people through unintended consequences while enriching a select few. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell railed against the Democrats in a floor speech Monday via

his Twitter account. Why are Democrats filibustering the bipartisan bill? help write an appropriate question to ask this morning as the country waits on us. So let me give the American people a taste of the outstanding issues we woke up to this morning. Here are some of the items on the Democratic wish list over which they choose, over which they choose to block this legislation last night. tax credits for solar energy and wind energy, provisions to force employers to give special new treatment to big labor,

and listen to this, new emission standards for the airlines. Are you kidding me? This is the moment to debate new regulations that have nothing whatsoever to do with this crisis? That's what they're up to over there. American people need to know it. Democrats won't let us fund hospitals or save small businesses unless they get to dust off the Green New Deal. All over the country, lawmakers are ordering people to stay home and non-essential businesses to close.

Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers announced Monday that he is going to formally order all Wisconsinites to stay home beginning today and all non-essential businesses to close. according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. He did not say how long this lockdown would be in effect. He explained his decision through a video posted on his Twitter page. We are obviously in the midst of a real crisis here in our state, and the people that are helping us get through this crisis, the ones that are in the healthcare world, whether it's EMTs, healthcare workers, first responders, nurses,

and so on, are putting their lives and their hearts on the line to help us get through this. Now, what we can do to help them is, frankly, stay at home. Whatever we can do to stay at home will help those health care workers do the jobs that they need to do to help us get through this. Indiana Governor Eric Holcomb took similar action on Monday, ordering residents to stay home, except for essential trips to buy groceries, medicine, and so forth, as reported by WNDU News Now 16. NBC5DFW reported that Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins announced Sunday that a shelter in place will take effect in Dallas County beginning at 1159 p.m. on March 23rd, until at least April 3rd, with a likelihood of extension. People will still be allowed to shop for essentials and health care workers and other essential personnel will be allowed to continue working. And Virginia Governor Ralph Northam announced Monday that public schools will remain closed for the remainder of the year.

In a press conference reported on by Richmond News 6, the governor said, school closures are necessary to minimize the speed at which COVID-19 spreads and protect the capacity of our health care system. Bad news for anyone who is looking forward to Olympic gymnastics and swimming this summer, it looks like the Olympics will be postponed. International Olympic Committee member Dick Pound told USA Today, on the basis of the information the IOC has, postponement has been decided. The parameters going forward have not been determined, but the games are not going to start on July 24th.

That much I know. Earlier this week, the president of the International Olympic Committee, Thomas Bach, said he would make a decision on whether to postpone the Olympics over the next four weeks. Next up, we'll have Rachel's interview with Representative Mark Green. It is of the utmost importance to all of us here at the Daily Signal to ensure you are receiving the best information about how you and your loved ones can stay healthy during the coronavirus pandemic. Here is an important message from Dr. Anthony Fauci,

the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases on what to do if you think you might have COVID-19. People who are sick should stay home. You don't go to an emergency room. You don't go to a clinic. You get on the phone and you ask for advice and instructions from your physician. Then you use those instructions to determine what you're going to do. But the first reflex should not be, I feel sick.

I'm going to go to an emergency room. I feel sick. I'm going to just go to a doctor's office. We need to physically separate. Ultimately, you may need, obviously, to see a physician or to go to a hospital. The first reflex should be to make a call to your physician. I'm joined today on the Daily Signal podcast by Congressman Mark Green of Tennessee. Congressman, it's great to have you back on the Daily Signal podcast.

Yay, thanks for having me. Well, given your background in medicine as an emergency room physician and what's on the, you know, the minds and hearts of all Americans right now is the whole coronavirus pandemic. What is your perspective overall on everything that's going on? You know, I think if you're asking for sort of my overall perspective, I think there are three, you know, simultaneous battles sort of being fought. Of course, there's the battle against the virus. And inside that world, it's all about getting testing and appropriate equipment out to the troops in the field, so to speak, the doctors and nurses that are out there on the front lines, getting them the PPE and all of that.

There's, of course, the ventilator and the hospital bed issue. That's all sort of one battle being fought. The second battle is to preserve the economy and all of this unbelievable turmoil. As you go to, you know, fight the virus and shut things down so the transmission stops, you put a lot of people out of work and we've seen unprecedented. And so inside that economic battle is what the House and the Senate and all these bills are being passed in order to get relief to American businesses. That battle is impacted by the political battle because there is this battle between the two parties, honestly, and in some cases, aspects of it where they're just trying to one up the other to show, you know, who cares the most about the American people? and that battle was impacting the economic battle.

And in some cases, you know, maybe even potentially getting in the way of the virus battles. So those are the three things, the three silos, the three, I'm using the term battle because I can't find a better word for it. In terms of the virus, I think we're making a lot of headway, you know, equipment's getting out there. I know I talked to some of the hospitals in my district. And as a physician, as an ER physician, I can go and call, you know, ER docs that are buddies of mine. in the community and say, hey, what's going on? And for the most part here in Tennessee, we've got the tests. We're a little short on PPE, but they're getting it.

There are, they are making diagnosis. They are making, you know, there are some patients that are critical. And we've lost, I know, at least one patient here in Tennessee. But I think overall, that battle is moving very positively. And if you look at the potential therapeutics from the hydroxychloroquine azithromax study out of France, and there was also a small study out of Australia and China on that. There's a lot of potential hope there. There are other therapeutics.

There's a phase three trial going on with remdesivir out in Washington. I think that's going to produce some positive results. So in that space, we're looking pretty good. In the economic space, I think the first two stimulus is the $8.3 billion, and then what we think is going to be around $100 billion, the supplemental number two. Of course, it had a lot of problems in it. I could go into that if y'all want.

But there's ongoing fights in the Senate right now to get a third supplemental that would get the really important stuff, and that is cash flow loans through the Small Business Administration to the small business. So that's sort of a very quick overview with probably a little more detail than you want. that's what I'm seeing right now. Yeah, no, definitely. Thank you for that. And I know we're going to probably drill down into some of those other things more specifically, but going, looking at the legislation that you mentioned in the CARES Act that's being debated right now, we're recording this on Monday afternoon and everything sort of remains in flux as negotiations continue. But from what's

currently in the bill right now, what's your perspective on it? And would you change anything that's in the current bill? There's a rule in medicine that, you know, the Hippocrat, credit oath is first do no harm. So whatever we do in that package, it's got to make sure that it doesn't impact the nation long term. And there's the balancing act of how do we get cash to businesses that are going to have to. And the goal, of course, and I like this piece of the bill. Well, I think there was a version that came out yesterday evening that was about 500 and something pages. In that version, which is the latest version I've seen, it had, you couldn't lay your people. off. So, you know, I had the conversation when I came in today with my wife who runs to CrossFit gyms and she's closed the gyms down. I said, you know, you can't lay people off. You got to, if you're going to get this, if this system is going to work, it's to keep people working or and keep people employed. So I think every business in America should be told that as quickly as possible. And then that government assistance through the small business

administration is going to be there for those businesses that are out there that are having to, you know, shutter their doors right now. At least they can keep paying people, paying their mortgages, paying their utilities, et cetera, et cetera. And so I like that piece of it. In terms of what I would change, you know, I'm very reluctant to just blanket, send out checks to people because, you know, there are people who need it and there are people who don't. And it's not a very good differentiator when you just send everybody a check. So if I could change any piece of it, I would target that more to the people who are really in need. Awesome. Thank you for that perspective. So looking at what we're seeing, I think the latest numbers out of the CDC for Monday

were that the U.S. had a total of around 33,404 cases and around 400 deaths. So looking at obviously more tests have gone out so more cases are being reported. And that's what we're seeing, at least how I understand it, bigger numbers of coronavirus. But how would you rate the response of President Trump, as well as different health care officials from across the country, that have been also addressing the nation? I think the president's response, as well as the administration response, has been very, very good.

There are a couple of things that I think could have been better. I think the transition to the standing up the private enterprise system for creation of more tests could have happened a little more quickly. and then the FDA waiving its regulations on the therapeutic studies. For example, you know, remdesivir and some of the more, you know, research pipeline meds, getting those out there. I think that could have happened a little sooner. I mean, it took the president basically intervening to get the FDA to relinquish some of those

regulations. That was good on his part, not good on their part. If you go back to the actual timeline, a lot of me. doesn't want to talk about this, but if you look at the real timeline, you see all these things that were happening, but they weren't in the news because, well, honestly, it was all about impeachment at that time. And you can even go back and look through various political leaders Facebook feeds and Twitter feeds and all that. And nobody's really talking about it. It becomes a conversation, you know, once the impeachment's over and while everybody kind of looks up, well,

the administration had been working all that time to get stuff going. CDC getting its emergency operations center and all those things stood up. I mean, that happened within really seven to 14 days of Wuhan's China's announcement on December the 30th. So I think the president's done a great job. There are a couple areas that when we're done with this in our after action reviews, we'd call it in the Army. We'll say, okay, this has to be fixed for next time. and this has to be fixed for next time. But even if you listen to Governor Como,

I mean, he's out there saying, I called the president and the president responded. I called the task force and they responded. So I think there's a lot of good things happening, but there will be lessons learned. And what we can't do is turn that into a political thing. I mean, this is the first time the nation's ever experienced anything like this. And I just hope and pray that together Republicans and Democrats can address those

lessons learned without making them political. Congressman Green, looking at the anti-malaria drugs that have been introduced, that President Trump is also talking about, how hopeful are you that those will be successful in treating coronavirus? I'm very hopeful on hydroxychloroquine and azithromax. The study out of France looks very, very hopeful, I mean, but it will take more data. But the Rhemedizivis. is the true antiviral that has shown promise,

and it's the drug that was created by Gilead for Ebola. They're still, they're in phase three now on that. I'm hopeful, but I'm very, very hopeful about hydroxychloroquine. And I know physicians in the Middle Tennessee area who have patients in the ICU on the ventilator, and they're using it. So I've asked for them to kind of keep me up to date. Because hydroxychloroquine is a drug that's been

a very long time. And so a physician can write it off label anytime they want to, an MD or a DO can. And so I think you're going to see a lot of providers using it, and we're probably going to get a lot of data. So the coronavirus pandemic amidst a bunch of other things has lawmakers as well as Americans across the country talking a lot about how reliant the U.S. is on China for pharmaceuticals and other medical supplies. So do you think given what's happened in this whole situation, But do you think we do rely too much on China for medical supplies? So absolutely. I mean, there is a, that is a definitive.

Absolutely, yes. And, you know, the thing about it is we maintain a military industrial base that is prepared in the event of war. So there's maybe we're not buying any tanks today, but right now there's a plant that makes tank barrels that's just ready to go whenever we need it. Because it's a national security issue. You can't rely on particularly a potential enemy to manufacture your weapon systems, right? Well, now that it's very clear that, you know, we have this sort of deficiency when it comes to the health care side, which, oh, by the way, and I'm not asserting that in this case it could be, but it could be a weapon in the future. I'm not saying that's what this is. Please, I want to be very clear about that.

But clearly something like this could be a weapon in the future. And so we've got to kind of start thinking this from a national security standpoint, just like we do with tank barrels or, you know, helicopters or, you know, that kind of stuff. So military weapon systems. And that includes PPE, too, not just the medications, but our protective equipment and all those things that we would need to get through a similar experience like this. So I know that there's legislation. In fact, there's tons of different legislation.

Tom Cotton has one. Marsha Blackburn has one. Josh Hawley. On the Senate side, there are House versions of those. I really like Tom Cotton's. I haven't had a chance to read Marshas, but I'll read it. I'll read all of them, and I'll pick one and jump on board as a co-sponsor because I think we've got to reward businesses that bring that kind of stuff back home.

So on Sunday, President Trump talked about it during his process. conference and then was also tweeting about the economic downturn the country has seen because of coronavirus. And he had said, we cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself. At the end of the 15-day period, we will have to make a decision as to which way we want to go. So, Congressman, my question to you is, how do you think the country should proceed in the coming weeks, recognizing the threat of coronavirus while at the same time being prudent about its implications on the economy? So as I kind of indicated in one of my previous, I think it was the general overview question, you know, this is about cash flow for businesses. And, you know, this is the second stimulus that passed through the house in the middle of the night and had to be redone the following Monday.

That package put requirements on small businesses but didn't really make them whole. it did a little bit with the payroll tax immediate deduction from what you have to pay in payroll tax to cover those people that are out sick or taking care of their family. But it's inadequate. It's clearly inadequate. So we have got to get this other bill passed in order to work on the cash flow of businesses to make sure they can pay employees and pay their bills, their fixed expenses to work and to maintain supply chains. Beyond that, if we go much beyond that, we have to be very careful about the total amount of money we spend because that's what you put into the economy today. You're taking it out of tax dollars in the future. And very clearly, the United States has overspent for some time with a lot of different contributors to that. But we're not in a debt to GDP ratio where we can just throw lots of debt on the country.

So we have to balance this and make sure that the cure, the economic cure to what the businesses have taken as a hit because they're out there trying to stop the spread of the virus isn't so overdone that it bankrupts the future of the country. That's the balancing act that I alluded to earlier. And the piece that I'm very comfortable with is the cash flow support through loans to the businesses. But I'm struggling with the indiscriminate riding of chicks, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, thank you for your perspective. Earlier in our discussion, you had talked about your colleagues in medicine who are meeting this crisis head-on. And so I'm curious, what are you hearing from any colleagues who are doctors, friends of yours that you might be talking to? And then just practically speaking, do they have enough supplies like masks and ventilators?

and what are things that they might need that you're hearing? Yeah, I think the challenge is not so much the masks, at least in Middle Tennessee. And I spent all day, Sunday, connecting even colleagues in Kentucky, New York, and Michigan with vendors who I knew had masks. So the question wasn't as much the availability of the mask, although that is part of it. perhaps the bigger and more challenging piece is how do you track who has it and who doesn't. For example, if you were in a combat situation and your battalion was fighting across an enemy front and the enemy attacked over here at A company, A company would expend all of its ammunition,

almost all of its ammunition, fighting that enemy. So you win that particular battle while the end. is preparing to counter attack again or attack again, you crossload the ammunition. So you go to B company and C company and you say, hey, a company needs some ammo because that crossloading has been, we don't have that system created. We've never thought, well, hey, Vanderbilt short masks, U.T. Knox Med Center, you got masks, but you don't have face shields. Let's do a quick swap.

That system isn't there. And the states are having to create that. And I know I spoke to our governor, and they built that system so that someone can be sort of the central command center. And, oh, wait, okay, here, we'll crossload this and you drive over and get masks from them. And we'll drive over and get face shields to you. And so that piece of it is another lesson to learn is just there's got to be a quarterback or in the Army, we would call it, the tactical operations center who's out there quarterbacking where everything goes. so that you are crossloading appropriately.

And I guess that's just a blending of my military experience and my medical experience, but that piece is the real challenge today. Thank you for that. And speaking of lessons learned, when it comes to looking at all of this from more of an international perspective as well, do you think the U.S. has anything in particular to learn from how COVID-19 has affected other countries? Yeah, I think, you know, the lesson, and I think the president, was on top of this, you know, just something we did better than others. If you compare how we shut

our borders to Italy, and you will absolutely see the flattening of the curve. And we have flattened the curve somewhat. Now, we don't know exactly how much. Some governors have taken the extreme of completely shutting their states down. That's the balancing act, right, between stopping spread and shutting down the economy. So all that is, is, is, in balance. So, you know, but we did it much sooner than they did in Italy. And if you compare in contrast, I mean, they did reach the maximum capacity of their ventilators, and they did have to make a horrible choice in their algorithm of who got treated.

And so far, so good. We haven't reached that point in America. that's not to say we won't. And it's not to say that in regions of the country we will and others we won't. I don't want to make predictions on it. But shutting the border, closing the border to Europe when we did, all of those decisions were timely and I think have been effective in somewhat flattening the curve. And that's certainly better than, you know, say Italy. Yeah, it's really interesting how important borders have become all of the same.

sudden through all of this. So it's interesting, interesting time. Given your background in medicine, what would your message be to Americans who a lot of them are, you know, there's a lot of hysteria, there's a lot of, you know, people that are nervous. And then there are a lot of people, too, who are helping their neighbors who are working together. And given your background, your background in medicine and also as a lawmaker, you know, working on the front lines to represent your constituent. in Tennessee, what would you say to Americans today that are still taking all of this in? Well, first, I think, you know, the thing I would say is we still have to be vigilant with our precautions, our health care precautions, hand sanitize or washing your hands.

We do need to adhere to the rules on, you know, essential people being out and where states have limited it, that people should take the lead from their local leaders and their state leadership. But I think Americans should know that the vast majority of the people, vast majority of the people who get COVID-19 are going to be fine. And that is still important to know. The targeted populations, the ones that have comorbidities in the elderly are the ones that are really, you know, getting sick.

although there does seem to appear just recently some slight increases in the younger people getting into critical condition. We have a 31-year-old on the ventilator here in my local town, so it's still can strike the young, but the vast majority of people will be okay. We will get through this. The president and the states and local governments are seeming to work very well together and this will pass and then we'll need to go out and make sure that we do everything we can to get the economy roaring again. Well, Congressman Green, thank you so much for being with us again on the Daily Signal podcast. It's always great to have you on. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. And that'll do it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to the Daily Signal podcast.

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