The Daily Zeitgeist - 100 Men >, The Rock…But FOR REAL 05.06.25

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

In episode 1858, Jack and Miles are joined by host of ScienceStuff, Jorge Cham, to discuss… Trump Wants To Hire Brigadier General Francis X Hummel To Reopen Alcatraz, AI And the Future Of Buying and Selling Your Free Will, Finally & Most Importantly: Where Do You Fall On The 100 Men vs 1 Gorilla Debate? And more! Trump Seems to Have Decided to Reopen Alcatraz Because of a Movie Here’s why Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy ordered Alcatraz to close in 1962 ‘Intention Economy’ Could Sell Your Decisions—Before You Make Them Beware the Intention Economy: Collection and Commodification of Intent via Large Language Models LISTEN: Never Enough by TurnstileSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I want this on official record. Actually. Yeah. Why don't you record? Our marriage is falling apart in real time and there's just an audience. Oh man. I feel like a child in divorce court. Have you ever listened to the show Doughboys?

Yeah. For like two years there, it was like listening to a couple getting a divorce. And then they like pushed their way through it. It's really an amazing. Wait, when was that? They just like, weren't always like, oh, shut the fuck up. Oh, you think you're so great. Like you're so mad at each other all the time.

It was kind of. At least it's not like, I remember at the end of Bodega Boys when you could just tell like, there was like this passive anger just simmering sometimes like a arrow would talk too much Is that too much sorry was I talking too much again that is like such divorce and couple energy Oh, I'm sorry. I sorry. I guess I was talking too much again. I don't know if you know this about me But apparently whenever I speak, it's the most annoying thing anyone can ever do. I don't know if you know this about me.

Here's a fun fact about me is that when I speak, it's apparently like nails on a chalkboard. Right. I quote somebody, who was that honey? Who said that? Who was that? Well, there's only two of us talking to each other right now. It's like, who are you even bringing in as this third party a second ago?

No, no, there's, I just saw a bunch of like, for whatever reason, all the articles I was being like that I saw through that, like on the feed of like articles I look at, so many were about like, like cheating, the definition of cheating is evolving. Here's how to know if you're doing it. And another one was like, relationship burnout is real. Here, how to get in front of it. Well, I'm happy to say that we are as podcast, as cohosts in an open relationship where you. Oh yeah.

Yeah. In fact, I was cohosting the dollop over the weekend. Did you really? No. I was going to be like, damn, I gotta listen to the dollop again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I, they're like, is it okay? I'm like, he, Jack in his own world. Asleep at the wheel. Exactly. If Jack cared, he'd tell me I couldn't do it. He actually just has a cuck chair in the podcasting studio where he watches me podcast with other shows. Is it a cuck chair where he listens to me guest on other shows?

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the On Purpose Podcast and I'm excited for my next episode with Khloe Kardashian. God, I've been through so many things that at this point I would rather not feel than feel because feeling is too much for me to handle. I am Khloe Kardashian. Khloe to handle. I am Chloe Kardashian. Chloe Kardashian, everybody. Chloe Kardashian.

No one understands how it's, I'm not just a TV show. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater podcast network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Sam Mullins, and I've got a new podcast coming out called Go Boy, the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable. Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted. I spent 24 of those years in jail.

But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex-con to a literary darling. From Campside Media and iHeart podcasts, listen to Go Boy on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core.

There's so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello the internet and welcome to season 387 episode two of Dirt Island. This is a production of iHeartRadio. This is the podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness and it

is Tuesday, May 6th, 2025. May the sixth be with you. May the Sith. Yeah. May the Sith. Ooh, this And may the sith. Yeah. May the sith. Ooh, this is sith day. Yeah. Hell yeah.

For probably the sad people out there who want to be sith. Anyway, it's National Foster Care Day, National Teacher Appreciation Day. I'm gonna shout out Judy Claussen, my first music teacher who cultivated a love in music in me that still to this day stays with me and I'm forever grateful so I just want to shout you out because I will never forget you miss Klausen.

National crepe Suzette day. This looks like some shit Donald Trump's dad was. Have you ever had a crepe Suzette? It looks like a bunch of origami with orange slices. The crepe looks like shit too in this photo. Also National Beverage Day, National Nurses Day. Shout out to Miss McDonald. What does she teach? My seventh grade English teacher. First person who was like you're good at

writing. Helped you read. Yeah. You're good at reading you can do this Jack. You can do it at a kindergarten level now finally. Way to go buddy. Thank you. Thank you. Well my name is Jack O'Brien aka and did you think this fool could never win 700 pound gorilla hitting like a chimp I got the taste of blood and it stares so far away and I'll probably never sleep again from what I've done today don't you know that I'm still standing I lost I only lost one of my limbs looking like the sole survivor. Next to fight a million kids that won the courtesy of David Lesser on the discord. A little EJ Elton John.

Wow. Yeah. Hey, you know, we're still out here. We're still talking about a hundred men versus one gorilla. And I do feel like I just got that fight in me. I got that dog in me. I wouldn't quit even though I was missing all my teeth and multiple limbs. That's personally where I see it going. But I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray. Hey, it's Miles Gray, aka. He'll probably start the fight by slinging poop. I need a, I need a hundred men or more so call your dudes. I had to do the harmony.

I'm fighting apes down in Africa. Give him a beating like one he's never had. beating like he's never had. Shout out David Lesser. The African Toto. Oh, David Lesser with multiple. I mean, we're very predictable. Doubles. We're like, yes. Terrace?

Nah, give us the gorilla fighting. The gorilla fighting. And I've got to say, I was telling Jack Pye, really, I've really, I've had an evolution on this. It's wild. Like this is. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it later. After hearing from many learned people, my perspective has shifted quite dramatically on this thought experiment,

but we'll get to that later. Well, we have somebody with us today, Miles, who I think will help us shed a little bit of light on this subject. A writer, cartoonist, podcaster, former roboticist, who has written books like We Have No Idea, Guide to the Unknown Universe. His new podcast, Science Stuff, is answering fascinating questions every episode, like is hypnotism real? Do our pets lie to us?

I've been saying this for years. I know. That bird is a liar. That bird is having fun up there. That's fun. Do you really have to wait 30 minutes to go swimming, which is going to be my first question for him. Our near-death experience is real.

It's a great list and we're thrilled to have him back. Please welcome back to the show. Jorge Chau! Hello. Hello, friends. Hello, dailies or what do you call your audience? Zykees. Zykees. What's up, Zykees?

Dailies, Ikees. They call them the status quies, actually. All right. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't try and slip that by him just cause he's a scientist. Miles just wants to be liked too. Yeah. Yeah. Don't try and slip that by him just because he's a scientist. Miles just want to be liked to. Wait, he's... Miles tries to pluralize status quo as status quai. And then what was the other one?

Statuses. Status quo. Yeah. It's like the stati quote. Oh, wait, is that it? I'm going to believe you are. No, no, sorry. I was just making... Oh, wait, is that it? I'm going to believe you, Jorge. No, no, sorry. I was just making that up.

It's statuses. Yeah, it's statuses quo. Oh, so I was somewhere there. Yeah. Whoa, they want attorneys general on that. Yeah, it was attorney general style. That's the other one. I love to rely on things like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, great, Jorge. We're thrilled to have you back. Can you just do you really have to wait 30 minutes to go swimming? Cause I, I have on multiple times in my life, not waited and been fine, I think, but maybe I'll die in my fifties from it. From like stocking up. It's like, uh, like a sleep debt that you've built up.

It's like too much time swimming after with just 15 minutes after eating. No, yeah, we've all been there. You know, you're a kid you want to go back in the pool? It's hot you want to play with your friends, but some adult is telling you you can't do it Yeah, you have to wait 30 minutes and and for me this was kind of personal because my aunt was a doctor and she would take a swimming all the time she'd be like no you have to wait 30 minutes after eating and So in this episode, I really wanted to know the answer. Yeah, which is apparently And so in this episode, I really wanted to know the answer. Yeah. Which is, apparently, you don't have to wait 30 minutes after eating to go swimming, but you probably should.

Okay. Yeah. Or I probably should, but you don't want to die. Yeah, you're not going to die. You're not going to get cramps. Cramps are not related to what you actually cramps are related to what you don't eat. Like if you don't eat enough electrolytes or sugars, they think maybe that's one cause for cramps, which is super interesting to me that scientists don't know what causes

cramps. Yeah, it's like, they're making it up. We don't know. Yeah, seem real. It seems like it's one of those public health policy question, where it's like, I mean, you could probably get away with it on your own, but as a public pool policy, if you don't want people throwing up in your pool or cramping in a giant pool,

then it's probably a good policy to have for a whole ass public pool. Yeah, it's probably just recommended. Just because you're kind of flat when you're swimming, so your stomach kind of gets turned around. Oh yeah, it's like the zero gravity stuff that happens in space. Yeah. Yeah. And also like your body just needs time to digest, you know?

Right, right, right. Hard disagree on that one. I don't know. Yeah, I've taken a bite of pizza and then immediately done a cannonball. With the pizza in your mouth, I probably have done that. Yeah. I come up still chewing it. It comes a little soggy, but there are sacrifices to make.

When I was exhaling as I dove in the water, a lot of marinara came out of my nose. Whatever. It is what it is. What kind of pizza was that? Jesus, so much marinara. Marinara piece. And then you got came out of my nose. What kind of pizza was that? Jesus, so much marinara. Then you got kicked out of the pool. It's a tomato pie. We're thrilled to have you.

We're going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment. First, we're going to tell the listeners a couple of things we're talking about today. We're going to check in with President Trump planning to reopen Alcatraz, which, uh, hell yeah, both, uh, a cool story that is happening. He, a man of many wants and you know, just the, his, these ideas drift past him. It's truly, it feels like our national conversation is just based on who he talks to that day. Like just the, or what's on TV.

Yeah. Or what, which, uh, when was the last time he saw the rock. So we'll talk about that. We also just want to dig into some of the interesting questions that you've been looking into on your podcast, where, hey, our near-death experience is real, is hypnotism real? But let's be honest, we're going to talk a lot about whether

100 men could defeat one gorilla. Let's be honest. Let's be honest here. Let's talk about the real status quo. Yeah, exactly. The real status quo. I am curious though on the hypnotism thing, Miles, you brought up the point that that might relate

in interesting ways to the intention economy that AI is supposedly about to unleash on all of us. Basically, it knows us so well that it can just steer us imperceptibly and like sell our future behavior, our intention to do things to people. So I wanted to get your thoughts on that as well, especially as a former roboticist, but all of that, plenty more. But before we get to it, Jorge, we do like to ask our guests, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are?

Oh my goodness. Uh, that I can disclose in public or want to disclose in public. Preferably that you would not want to, but you just feel like pressured because you know, you want to discuss in public. Yeah, yeah. Preferably that you would not want to, but you just feel like pressured because, you know, you want to make good podcast. A little bit embarrassing, but not too embarrassing. Yeah, yeah. Or humiliating, whatever is your...

Earth flat? Oh, no. This is going to surprise you guys. Just acting up zero research, you know? I'm doing... That would be both I think I'm doing your own research. I'm doing... That would be both embarrassing and potentially career ending for me. Babe, that's why you take the big risks on this podcast. Right now, I'm in a really deep dive into this episode we're doing about, are we living in a simulation?

I don't know if you've heard this question. There's this idea that maybe we're all really just inside of a video game of some alien or advanced civilization. And so I've been Googling a lot. How much computing power would it take to simulate a human brain? Yeah, like, can you do it on your phone or do you need like a planet size computer to do it? Yeah, because we're seeing now that's a really good point that I hadn't thought of in the context of the evolving conversation around AI that, you know, one of the

limitations we're running into with AI is that like Sam Altman is like, we're having to burn down like three rainforests a night instead of two, because people keep saying please and thank you to the AI. instead of two, because people keep saying please and thank you to that. It's like, it's limited. It's a computing power. It just requires to drain much energy to train these things. So yeah, like if you're going to run a hyper realistic simulation that fools billions of people across the planet, like why, uh, like what must, what energy source must you be using?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is the answer depressing how little computing power it would take? No, the answer is depressingly large. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean- How many hamsters on a wheel? Good. Are we talking?

Yeah. Give it to me, hamsters on a wheel good Person at least a hundred gorillas Yeah, yeah, yeah Easier like Occam's razor might just be that we're just doing this on our yeah, just what why burn millions and millions of You know, whatever the unit is for energy. Yeah. When you can just... Kilowatts.

Have this be happening naturally already. Yeah. But it turns out the computer chip in your computer, your laptop, that has enough transistors pretty much to match how many neurons you have in your brain. So we're kind of close. But the question is like, how many actual transistors do you need to simulate one neuron, which might be, you know, a thousand or 10,000, who knows? And so that's what I'm deep into searching. Nice. So are you a, do you believe that it's a simulation?

I think that, um, people will find out on the episode. Yeah, people will. Yes, yes, people will find out on the episode. Yes, people will. Yes. Yes. People will find out. The short answer is no. The short answer is probably actually the short answer is probably. So how, when you're approaching a question like this, how much of your

research is just Googling what does Elon Musk say? Because when I'm approaching a scientific thing, I'm like, all right, well, let's check with richest guy, aka by the transit of property smartest guy, what he say, and then I just go with that for like 90 percent of what I believe. Yeah. Is that not how you do research? There is a lot of Googling at first,

but then the Googling turns into like reading academic papers and then turns into like talking to experts by phone, like calling them and recording. You use the woke phone to call woke experts on science? Whoa, Jorge. What is, what's something you think is underrated? I have something that I thought was overrated, but now I'm convinced is underrated. Yeah. So as you know, part of my career has been as a cartoonist.

I draw cartoons, comics, I illustrate books for kids and adults. And I always thought, you know, cartooning is so specific. You need, like, you know, black lines, and there's so much style and personality in them, that AI is never going to be able to like compete with like, you know, Bill Watterson or famous cartoonists. But as I was thought I was a little overrated. But now after the whole Studio Ghibli-sation memes, have you guys seen that? People are creating photos of themselves in the style of Studio Ghibli, which is this famous Japanese animation studio.

Now I'm like, dang, I'm glad I switched over to podcasting for my career. You think they're coming for the cartoonists? Yeah. Yeah, especially recently, my daughter has been like illustrating funny illustrations for this book project she's doing in school. And she's just like talking to the AI online like, hey, can you make me a drawing of this teenage girl looking this way, holding this in the style of this with this as a background?

It's like, boom, there it is. Yeah. It is as good as anything I could ever draw. How do you look at that as someone who spent a lifetime honing a craft, like being able to cartoon and draw, and then see that something like that that you've spent hours doing has kind of just been like transformed into a text prompt that could put something like, do you like, what do you tell your kid?

Are you like, yeah, you know, maybe, you know, it's also fun, like picking up a pen and drawing stuff too. Like that's great. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's not surprising. I guess I'm a roboticist by training. And so, you know, to me, like humans, we were just like meat robots, you know? And so technically anything a meat robot could do, a metallic robot could also do. So I'm not like surprised that it's happening. Sure, sure, sure.

You can do it. But yeah, I just really encourage people to draw. It's just such a fun activity. It's relaxing. It's good for your mental health. It's good for your brainstorming. I use it a lot for brainstorming and so I hope people don't lose the ability to draw. Yeah, yeah. I've definitely, I've like, I started, I was doing coloring, like adult coloring books recently, because I realized how much I really enjoyed like that sensation as a kid of like just the lines and shit. And I'm like, Oh, this is, this has many therapeutic applications for me, even

though it's not necessarily, I'm, you know, trying to, no one's bought any of my colorings. I'll just say that. So I still do. You need the AI in Hasdom? You know, but then it's like, you know, I spend all this time coloring in the lines, then I feel like that magic is lost. If it's AI, I feel like it's more impressive when I told him like, no, I, with my own mind,

I stayed inside the lines when I color. What is something you think's overrated? What do I think is overrated? This might be a little controversial, but I've been watching The Last of Us on TV. Uh huh. For you guys, uh, fans of the show or? I'm, I played the games and I know, I know what people are reacting to based on my history with the video game, uh, but I haven't watched season two yet.

I watched the first season. I really liked the first season. Okay. All right. Yeah. I feel like it's getting a lot of critical attention, but I'm just like, you know, it's, uh, it's like The Walking Dead just with a little more money. Mm-hmm. Right.

Yes. Sorry, not a scientific topic, but just last of us over it. I'm a big zombie enthusiast. Yeah. And did you like how long was Walking Dead able to keep your attention? Because I like after the Frank, like, I think it was that first season after that Frank Darabont season, I was like, bro, I can't, I don't know, man. Yeah, yeah.'t know, man. I was like, checking it for this one. Yeah, good question. They lost me like in maybe season five or six, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

It happens. OK. Yeah. What's your seminal, like what's your, what's the peak of zombie storytelling for you? Oh, boy. One that maybe people haven't heard of is this Korean teen high school drama called we are all dead on Netflix. Yeah.

Okay. Teen drama, but with zombies and it's super grim and super sad. Uh, but really all of us are dead. Yeah. All of us are dead. It's the name of it. Do you see kingdom? That was another Korean zombie thing. All of us are dead. All of us are dead. All of us are dead. That's the name of it. Did you see Kingdom? That was another Korean zombie thing. On Netflix, yeah.

My spouse watched that. She's a big fan of that. I think that they lost me on the costumes. You know, for me, the zombie appeal is imagining the apocalypse and how, like how I would react and how anyone, anyone would react. Yeah. Right. Right.

Trained to Busan. They really do it pretty well. Trained to Busan, yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Train to Busan. They really do it pretty well. The train to Busan. Yeah. Uh, that's also a banger. So go to Korea for all your zombie, zombie shit. Zombies, uh, K-pop and food. They're also devices.

All right. Well, we'll get to, uh, some of your other thoughts on AI stuff in a bit. Uh, first let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about some news. We'll be to some of your other thoughts on AI stuff in a bit. First, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about some news. We'll be right back. Hey, my name is Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose and I'm excited for my next episode with Chloe Kardashian. God, I've been through so many things that at this point, I would rather not feel than feel because feeling is too much for me to handle. All right, we're ready.

I am Khloe Kardashian. Khloe Kardashian, everybody. Khloe Kardashian. No one understands how it's... I'm not just a TV show. There would be times that I was like, I don't even want to go out to the grocery store because I feel like I know what they're thinking about me.

And that was scary to me because I've never been in a dark place for that long. You've always taken care of others. Have you discovered anything about why you've seen yourself take on that role in so many relationships in your life? How do you even find the courage to trust again? Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar. I host a podcast called A Slight Change of Plans. I started this show because unexpected change comes for all of us, and there's no set playbook for how to deal with it. comes for all of us, and there's no set playbook for how to deal with it. I have all of this psychological baggage that I'm carrying with me, and the last thing I want to do is to pass that on to my daughter.

So I have to figure this out. This puzzle of my trauma, I have to figure it out, and I have to figure it out now. Join me this season when I talk to Amanda Knox about her choice to reconnect with the prosecutor who helped put her behind bars. This is not about him. This is about me and what I am capable of giving. And I know that I am capable of being kind to this man. And by God, I am going to do it and no one can stop me.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, hello, Malcolm Gladwell here. On this season of Revisionist History, we're going where no podcast has ever gone before. In combination with my three-year-old, we defend the show that everyone else hates. I'm talking, of course, about Paw Patrol. There's some things that really piss me off

when it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. My son watches Paw Patrol. I hate it. Everyone hates it, except for me. Plus, we investigate everything from why American sirens are so unbearably loud, to the impact of face blindness on social

connection, to the secret behind Thomas' English muffins, with perfect nooks and crannies. And also, we go after Joe Rogan. Are you ready, Joe? I'm coming for you. You won't want to miss it. Listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations, but most people avoid them, staying silent, missing opportunities, and holding themselves back. I know this is true because I used to be one of those people. As a kid, I struggled to fit in and I was afraid to speak up. That fear followed me into adulthood until I realized something powerful. Negotiation isn't a talent, it's a skill anyone can learn. And it starts with negotiating with yourself. Breaking through fear, self-doubt, and the limits we place on ourselves. Now I help people from all walks of life, whether it's people closing multimillion dollar

deals, parents setting boundaries, students finding their voice or professionals advancing their careers. If you want to handle tough conversations, get what you deserve and take control of your future, this podcast is for you. I'm Kwame Christian, host of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world where you'll learn one simple truth. You don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate.

Listen to Negotiate Anything on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And we're back. We're back. We're back. God, we're so weak. We're back. We're back. We're back. God, we're so back. So back.

Maybe we're back to 1955. The Birdman Alcatraz is there. The biggest creeps in America are locked up on the rock. But Trump made another asinine announcement that probably won't happen because it's so stupid and unrealistic. But anyway, here it goes. He wants to reopen Alcatraz, the federal penitentiary that closed in 1963. On Sunday night, on Truth, he announced, quote, Rebuild and open Alcatraz. For too long, America has been plagued by vicious, violent

and repeat criminal offenders, the dregs of society who will never contribute anything other than misery and suffering. When we were more serious nation in times past, we did not hesitate to lock up the most dangerous criminals and keep them far away from anyone they could harm. That's the way it's supposed to be. No longer will we tolerate these-

Right outside of San Francisco. Yeah, exactly. No longer will we tolerate these serial offenders who spread filth, bloodshed, and mayhem. Now he's like, I am now ordering the Department of Justice, Bureau of Prisons to reopen and substantially enlarge and rebuild Alcatraz to house America's most ruthless and violent offenders. Enlarge an island?

Yeah. Okay. You just got to add some rocks and shit. I feel like there's some Freudian context there. Make it bigger. I feel like it's- A lot bigger. Bigger and like the girth of the island should be big and it should go higher up. It should be longer than it should be girthy.

Yes. That's my big... The hands of justice need to be bigger. Right. Exactly. Yeah, truly. And everyone's like, what the fuck is he talking about? Enlarge. Enlarge.

Why are you looking at your lap, sir? Have you all ever been to Alcatraz? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Fourth grade. Yeah. But it's like, it's not in good shape, right? No, it's fucking crumb.

I remember we were I remember being bummed out as a kid because it was so fucked up looking like I thought you'd be like, oh shit, bro, I'll get you. I went before the rock came out. And you know, you just had all these like ideas of you're like, oh, man, like the people get eaten by sharks who try and get off. of you're like, oh man, like the people get eaten by sharks who try and get off. It's like, it's all, and then it's just like the most run down federal concrete prison you've ever seen. Yeah. It's like stuff dripping graffiti on the wall. Exactly.

That's how we'll show them that they. Maybe. Yeah. I was going to say it's going to cost a lot of money to upgrade, but maybe, maybe the point is not to upgrade it. I have a lot of money now that nobody is spending any money on toys because we can't get them and we're living in a $30 economy anymore. Uh, but I mean, again, I, you're like, what prompted this just from reading that text?

It sounds like a mix of frustration at judges for enforcing the constitution and being like, yeah, do process, uh process is at a minimum here, sir. What the fuck are you thinking? And like, you can't just disappear people. I'm not going to do the process. You do process. Okay. That's fine. And you can say that, sir, but my order still stands. You cannot just disappear people to El Salvador. Like this is some kind of fucking like movie.

You heard about the like terrifying prisons in El Salvador. It's like, we need one of those. Let's get one of those like, right. You heard about the like terrifying prisons in El Salvador is like, we need one of those, let's get one of those going up here. Well, by comparison, it makes Alcatraz look good. I think maybe. Right. Yeah, maybe. I mean, but I think, you know, like the other part is like the polls are shifting in all the wrong directions still.

Like there's another poll, like one came out. Yeah. Like it's all going down. It's he's losing his grip on reality and his base. And I think especially with the economy and immigration being like, he's scoring particularly low marks. I think reminding people that they live in some kind of fucked up combination between Thunderdome and the rock.

Like he's hoping to like get people back in their back in touch with their cruel side again, because he was like, when we were more serious, we didn't hesitate to lock up the most. He's clearly trying to evoke that and I guess using the thought of Alcatraz to get people excited. But again, this is something that most people don't even remember operating and more people remember The Rock, the movie. Yeah. He's aware of the average of what everybody think. I just feel like he's tapped into whatever version of reality was on television in the 1970s,

and that's what he's drawing on. So The Rock is most famous prison. They say it's impossible to escape because the water is full of sharks. And it's like, meanwhile, if you're like paying attention now, like they, people, they do like recreational swims out to the rock and back. It's a thing that people do for fun. Maybe he's going to repose Nicolas Cage be our next national security. I think later on he said, and now I am calling on Brigadier General Francis X Hummel to be in charge. But someone told him that was Ed Harris's character in The Rock and

Trump had a terrible violent outburst when he said, I want General Hummel now. But yeah, like to your point, Jack, it does feel like someone left TNT on the TV on all weekend near Trump and he may be caught an hour of the rock, but it turns out someone on blue sky may have an even more accurate prediction here as to what happened. Uh, someone said last night on WPBT in Palm beach, uh, they broadcast the 1979 Clint Eastwood film escape from Alcatraz. Oh my God. Trump was in from Alcatraz. Oh, my God. Trump was in Palm Beach that night.

Oh, yeah. And that's that's like, you never far from the television at any time. So that's definitely what this definitely is. This is a good one. They say no one could escape. Not even we could have distractions, right? Like, you know, the pull, like you said, the polls are shifting in the wrong direction for him. People are starting to get all this bad news.

So he's like, what can I say that will get people to talk about something else? Yeah. Yeah. It's like funny because it's like that's his instinct. And he doesn't even like, oh, that's actually pretty good. Now they're not talking about all the ways the economy is falling apart and how shipments have declined and all these other myriad of problems. But also he gets to say a pretend thing that feels really nice in his brain. I mean, like everything he like thinks up has some direct connection to pop culture or film, because a he can't read. So no new ideas are entering his brain like that. But then also like you, you couple that up with the fact that like, you know,

remember he's like obsessed with the gold in Fort Knox too. Yeah. He just, it's truly like a, just icon based view of the world where there's like one famous prison, one famous like bank or like gold vault. And it's like, you know, it also the stuff that was around and popular in the seventies when he was like coming of age, you know, wasn't there a Nicholas Cage movie about Fort Knox, maybe, uh, the constitution also, he loves to talk about the constitution that Nicholas Cage did, uh, steal the constitution.

I mean, also then at the end of the rock that, you know, they claim to see how JFK was killed, if you remember on that microfilm. He is obsessed with that. Wow. Wow. Some could argue that he became president just so you could find out. Give me Nicholas Cage now. Give me Nicholas Cage.

Maybe that's why he has the, because I think he has a copy of the Constitution, or maybe it's the Declaration of, he has one of those seminal founding documents in his office. Yeah. Behind his desk. Yeah. And he's like, look, he's like pretty cool.

Nicholas cage won't be able to get his little fucking Coppola hands on it. You know, he's a baby. Nicholas cage, his whole career is just him saying he's obsessed with him being a Coppola too, just like a weird fact. He's like, he's not, that's not his real last name. It's Francis Ford Coppola's nephew. RFK junior. How, how are we going to approach the face off question? I want to take his face and put it on mine.

Which is funny. Maybe Trump could ask his friend secretary brain worm why his daddy shut the place down in 1962 when RFK was the attorney general. Big mistake. Because again, people don't realize like why Alcatraz shut down. It cost way too much money. place down in 1962 when RFK was the attorney general. Big mistake. Because again, people don't realize like why Alcatraz shut down. It cost way too much to operate since it was on a fucking island and everything. There wasn't even fresh water.

It's all about theatrics. Yeah. Yeah. They had to bring tankers of like million gallons a time just to like replenish the fresh water supply on Alcatraz. It was also falling apart to the point where they're like, it's just going to get easier to escape. Like people were literally just like scraping away at the wall and swimming away, like this isn't, this isn't going to work.

And also it can only, it could only hold 336 inmates. Is that real? Yes. Definitely worth whatever fucking billion dollar project that he's going to be putting together to try. Yeah. Yeah. They're saying like a half billion will probably do.

And you can only put people who don't know how to swim because otherwise. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and it's basically like shark infested water, which like we now know like sharks don't want to eat us. So like you just don't, just don't get eaten by a shark.

You're pretty easy to just swim across the thing and not get eaten by a shark. Plus, or you could just keep the prisoners fed and then they can't swim until after 30 minutes. Exactly. I thought that you don't want to swim after that. You just ate. You don't want, yeah, you can't, but you shouldn't eat. We feed them every 30 minutes to prevent them from swimming away. Oh, okay.

Just, we're combining all kinds of myths now, aren't we? It feels like the next thing he's going to attack is quicksand. He's going to be like, we need to end quicksand in the United States. Like, it feels like it's on that same level of like, what a child in the 1970s thought was like cool and scary and a big deal. Lava, lava also. Yeah. I was wrong about the border wall. We actually need to have a border of quicksand. There we go. No one will be able to pass. That's my new idea.

I'm surprised again, like he's at this rate, he should be talking about storming area 51 pretty soon. Oh yeah. Unless that's too old. Doesn't he have the keys to it? I think he just hasn't seen a movie. I think he needs, somebody needs to show him independence day so he can realize what kind of treasure he's got. And then he's like, oh Doesn't he have the keys to it? I think he just hasn't seen a movie.

I think he needs, somebody needs to show him Independence Day so he can realize what kind of treasures they got locked up in there. Just checked out this new movie Independence Day. All right. Let's talk AI real quick, because this is something that I think ties into some of the hypnotism stuff that you cover in your hypnotism episode. But basically, I always remark on how our modern technology seems designed to rob us of free will and how it's somewhat depressing when you look around and just everybody's glued to their phone

just like on a college campus or in a cafeteria. Just nobody's like looking at each other or interacting. Everybody's just at my dining table every night. Yeah. Like 15. Oh no. Like 15 years ago, if you just like transported somebody to this point, they'd be like, well, this looks like a dystopia. Like everybody's just glued to their phone. Yeah. It's like the beginning of shot of the dead. Right. Yeah. It kind of likening our phones used to zombieism. Yeah. So when, uh, on last week's episode with Dr. Carrie McInerney, you, you had asked like, is this AI going to be used to fuck with

us and more specifically like market to us? Right. Because we're giving it all kinds of information about like what we, like what we want, how we want it, how to get there, how we even problem solve. It's so much more specific than like, I spent 10 minutes on this website. It's more like this person wants to figure out how they can increase their vertical jump, uh, by, by the age of 40. And now you know a lot about me and what my beliefs are on my physical ability. And I could probably be marketed supplements or something like that.

And it knows how you talk and therefore it knows how to talk back to you, which I guess is actually very, uh, successful or very important factor when it comes to like teaching people, like how, how to manipulate people is basically like, if you can talk to them using some of the same kind of language and like, it's like mirroring field of ideas that they have. And yeah, like these are the things that they're excited about that a lot of people who work in AI, like, so Dr. Carrie like reached back out and was like, Hey, you should check these articles out. Like that was a really good question.

And the articles are terrifying. One is like a MIT like long academic paper that Jorge, you'd probably be better at deciphering than I would, but it's. It, this Forbes article is interesting because it kind of presents it as like, here's an exciting new thing. As weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee AI agents from chatbot assistants to digital tutors and girlfriends could exploit the access that they have to our psychological and behavioral data and manipulate our responses by mimicking personalities and anticipating desired responses. The fact that they even have the word manipulate.

It's like the fusing of like all of these technologies that I think the social media like feeds and like the algorithms that they use. I think people just like took them at face value of like, it's going to show me pictures that I want to see. And people weren't like, and they're working with the people who designed addictive gambling games to like figure out how to make it so that you never want to stop and like can't stop looking or interacting with the thing. So it's troubling and it's like there's all sorts of really sophisticated ways that they're you know, manipulating or convincing or doing all these things.

I'm just curious Jorge kind of as a former roboticist and somebody who's recently done deep dives into things like hypnotism and stuff like that, how do you think about this sort of thing? Yeah. Well, I think it kind of goes back to even the 1990s. What made Google so revolutionary and special was that it was a good search engine, but it was good at giving you ads that it thought that you wanted to see.

Right. And so I think part of it was this human humans who kind of want that, you know, like we don't want to be shown ads for things we don't would never buy or never want to see, we want to be shown as it kind of help us. And in fact, if you look at research into happiness, like what makes people happy, at some point, having too many choices in your life makes you unhappy. In a way, we kind of need help a little bit, just helping us make decisions. Something that maybe helps you narrow your choices down can make you a little bit happier.

But as you said, humans have a long history of manipulating others, using whatever tools are available to manipulate others. And so, yeah, you can definitely imagine that being used to like influence what you buy, what you're into. And what I learned from hypnotism, looking into hypnotism for one of our episodes was, and I actually got hypnotized in the episodes. We can talk a little bit about that if you'd like. Are you still under by the way, right now?

Yeah. I'm still hopping on one leg. That's why you agreed to do the show. Yeah. I'm still hopping on one leg. Is that at the end of the day, you have a subconscious, then people can mess with, people can try to influence, but at the end of the day, it's still your choice on things.

You're the one who's clicking on things, you're the one who's making all of these options. And so yeah, there's totally the potential to influence people in a bad way, in a good way, but hopefully people still exercise their free will. Yeah, or understand, I think at the very least people need to understand that their free will is under attack. I think that's the difference is that there's a lot of these passive ways

that seemingly are like, well, that's crazy. Instagram knows like what I want to buy. Like every time, like I'm just buying stuff off of there. And I agree. Like there are some times I'm like, oh shit, this is actually something I'm really interested in and I'm glad I stuff off of there. And I agree. Like there are some times I'm like, oh shit, this is actually something I'm really interested in and I'm glad I found out about it. Other times I'm like, who do you think I am and why would I want this?

Um, but I think understanding how, I think really understanding how the people like from this MIT paper, like this is really chilling, right? If from this MIT paper says, quote, we survey recent efforts by tech executives to position the capture, manipulation and commodification of human intentionality as a lucrative parallel to and viable extension of the now dominant attention economy, which has bent consumer, civic and media norms around users finite attention span since the 1990s. We call this follow on the intention economy. I've like to understand it's like, yes, we have our free will, but also know that there are people that are at these levers that can absolutely have an effect on what we

perceive to be like the decisions we're making independently. And I think that's the part I think to get in touch with a little more because I think as long as you know that, that that's better than like talking to like one of my older parents who has no dude, my mom showed me this AI slop video. And she's like, Why would this giraffe do this? Mom, no, like if I felt like I was watching her turn into like a or something like with her red eyes, like, why would this? I'm like, it's bullshit. Let it go. But the second I told her, like all these things just started up, she's like, oh shit.

I didn't, she's like, it's the first time I saw anything like this, but now this makes sense because other people I know will talk about things like this. I think we have to at least have that attention on it to help safeguard. There's definitely like a line, right? Where, you know, if you're paying for an AI to help you, uh, and it actually has your best interest in mind and really line, right? Where, you know, if you're paying for an AI to help you, uh, and it.

Actually has your best interest in mind and really wants to give you something that you might like. Then I think that can be helpful. But if you, or if they don't tell you that they're also taking money from an advertiser to try to feed you these things, and that's where it gets, uh, really sketchy or a political campaign or candidate or party. I mean, it's all like, that's the thing is really sketchy. Yeah. Or a political campaign or candidate or party. I mean, it's all like, that's the thing is like, as these tools get developed, like very quickly, a fork is in the road where it's like, do you do the thing

that you do right by human beings or do you do the thing that you have a very lucrative party trick you can sell companies? There's a, there's a metaphor that a lot of people use that I've always used because I think without realizing it, it gives me hope and comfort, which is in a few years, people are going to look back on everybody having kids all having screens and everybody just being on their screens at all times of the day, the way we look back on the 1950s and 60s and everybody smoking. And I think gives me comfort because it's like, yeah, but then we got over that.

You know, we realized that that was bad for us and we stopped doing it. But like in order to make smoking illegal, like that was a multi-decade like battle where we were like, no, the like, look at these charts. Like it's the science is inarguable. Like it is literally like there's a smoking gun here. Like this is you are being killed by these cigarettes. And like, even then just the forces of like capital that were behind smoking were just like, we're, we're just like, we're still, we're still

holding a wait and see position on errand. I just, I don't think we're going to get that smoking gun with phones. Like I think because it's more of a like spiritual thing, you know, it's more of a phenomenological like, I don't know. Like if you asked yourself 10 years ago, if you showed yourself a video of like what your family dinner looks like today, like where everybody's just on their phones and not looking at each other. And like, there are ads that like make fun of the idea of like trying to have

a family dinner without phones. Like that, that's one of the ads that keeps running in the NBA playoffs is like people being like, let's just put our phones away real quick and then have a conversation. And then somebody says something really boring and they're like, okay, back to phones, back to phones. It's a fucking bummer. But I don't think that that's going to be enough to make it like a smoking gun where we like get rid of the technology.

That's a great analogy though with smoking. Maybe, maybe it needs to start with restaurants, you know, where restaurants need to have like a no phone section. I mean, I feel like that would be trendy, but it would never like take over. Like the surgeon general is never going to be like, you must. The closest it happened where they're like, there was a, this guy, the sushi chef Nozawa, who, if you've heard of the sugarfish, like restaurant chain, it's comes from this guy Nozawa.

And when he, like, he started off with a small sushi shop on Ventura Boulevard in the valley. And when cell phones became a thing, because a ton of studio people would go in there, he had a no cell phone pot. Like he would throw fucking people out mid meal for picking up a phone call. And it became legendary. But then it was like, then very quickly he like gave up. He's like, I just, I can't, I can't battle every single person.

He gave up. Oh no. Yeah. I mean, cause I think once you throw out a few studio executives, probably it becomes bad for business. Exactly. And like, I mean, think about like this, phones are going to be, or, you know, AI assistants are going to be how like all businesses conducted.

So I'm assuming also will be seen as bad for business to institute laws. Like I just think it's going to be on us to make these decisions to like, you know, live with free will or not. And I think like to the, you know, one of the key takeaways from your hypnotism episode is like, you can't be hypnotized into doing something you don't want to do. But I also to the, to the point that you just raised, like, I think a lot of people will want the AI assistant to just like, be like, I don't know, man, I got a lot going on. Like you just take it from here, Siri or whatever.

Show me something that I'm gonna, it's to relax me. But I think where it gets tricky is kind of the socio-economical part, right? Like people who can afford it will pay for the like the clean, neutral, nice version of AI, but people who can't afford it will have to, you know, add, add hypnotize, you know, add, uh, subliminal messages version, because that's what they can afford. Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah, it's very, I mean, like, I'm also like from a scientific

perspective, do you ever worry about, like, you, you hear a lot about like language hegemony and research and how like the English language dominates a lot of scientific research. And as a result, it causes research in other languages to not get as much attention as maybe it could be. Or also other people have pointed out that it's like, if everyone thinks in the same language, certain mistakes can happen because you're using, everyone's sort of using the same language, linguistic pathways to arrive at a solution.

Whereas like varied forms of languages have different sort linguistic pathways to arrive at a solution, whereas varied forms of languages have different pathways to solve a problem just based on how the language is structured. I wonder too, if with the proliferation of people using AI more and more, if that is just now another layer of vulnerability where there's a version where people aren't giving it the of vetting or analysis as they would, because they're presuming it to be completely correct. And then does that lead to some kind of scientific? Yeah. What is this going to do for like outside the box thinking when you have a

thing doing your thinking for you that is just drawing on all previous thought and remixing it. It's like, well, we're not going to have a lot of cool new ideas coming through. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Like, scientists definitely talk about, you know, having a common language, you know, you kind of need that in order to exchange ideas about science. It's kind of hard to do it through a translator. So that a little bit of that is inevitable. But, you know, I always take comfort in the fact that if you ever talk to a scientist or any scientist, their dream is to be like the one person who's contrarian, who turns out to be right, you know, the person who revolutionizes.

Be the big short of science, the scientific. Yeah, yeah. Everyone wants to be the person who upends the field or everyone wants to be the person who proves everyone right. So my feeling is like, hopefully, and this will continue, is that science is kind of set up so that, you know, people are always questioning the assumptions that are being made and the results that are being like come out. So that's my hope and prayer is that that continues. And they'll be doing that from China. They will not be doing it from the United States. Well, yeah, and I think that also, I definitely agree with that because I feel like the people

that have been most vocal about questioning AI have been scientists and researchers, because they're also just sort of like, well, it does these things fine. Let's really talk about everything. And yeah, I guess I never think about like, yeah, much in the same way. People want like that's that's the high you would chase as a researcher or scientist is like, do you fucking overlook this thing? Yeah.

Right. Right. Right. That's so, yeah. Maybe we do have something inbuilt there in the sciences. That'll help. How annoying scientists are. Yeah.

People say there's three kinds of scientists. The scientists who first poses a question, and the scientist who answers the question, and then everyone in between who nobody ever remembers. Right. Damn. Damn. It's pretty cool.

Now watch me peel this banana from this end, the tip end. Have you seen somebody open a banana from the tip end? Yeah. Yeah. I've been the person who thought that was the way to do it. The better way to do it. That's the way to do it. It's actually easier. Yeah. Well, there's a trade off. There is a trade off. We can get into it. Wait, hold on. No, I need to know because we're just talking about contrarians.

And I saw somebody's like, let me open this banana for your kid. I said, what the fuck are you doing it from that end? Right. There's the part that stems right? There's the part that stems that connects to the rest of the plant. Yeah. That's not the tail, right? That you would call the other end, the tail for it ends the bananas. Yeah. Oh, wait, I'm calling it the, the, from the stem. I open it from the stem end.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's how I've always done it. But recently, uh, I got shown that trick trick too of opening it from the tip end. And it is easier, especially if the banana is not quite ripe. Like if it's a little green and it's kind of hard to open it from the step in, then it's a lot easier to just squeeze the tip.

And then it just kind of opens up. Oh, so it changed me when I saw, and we're about to, this brings us to our next subject after the break. We're seeing a gorilla open a banana where they just break it, snap it in half, and then just shoot it out. If you're a gorilla, that might be easier. Yeah, if you're a gorilla. That's awesome.

They just rip it in half and go for it? Yeah, you can just break it, and they break pretty easy. I highly recommend it. It's a great feeling. I nearly broke my hands trying to break a banana in half. Oh, no. I'm telling you, these gorillas, bro. I'm telling you.

You're not in my 100. Maybe you need more bananas. I'm struggling with a banana. They're like, Miles, hurry up with the banana. We need that as a distraction. I'm like, hey, I can't break it in half. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about the most important scientific question

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And we're back. We're back. All right, Jorge. Here it is. We've been debating this one all last week. The internet has been debating it. Curious to hear your thoughts. Where do you fall? 100 men versus one gorilla. Fight to the death, I guess, is the terms.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I definitely have opinions because my kids have asked me this question. Definitely the whole internet is talking about it. I think it's an interesting question just because there are so many ifs about it, you know? Right. Like so many if questions that could tip the scale towards the gorilla or towards the human. And so it's like this endless source of opinions about what might or might not happen.

Yeah. Like does the gorilla fight each human one by one? Right. Does it have territorial advantage? Like is it at the top of a hill or at the end of a hallway Can the humans communicate like there's all these possibilities that you know lens lend themselves to people having different thoughts about it Yeah, and like if if we're if it's on a hill then

Can't you just like pick up a rock can't the humans pick up a rock? What if them like pitched call it like in college, like was a baseball pitcher in college. Like then that's going to really tilt the scales in one direction or the other. Yeah. Are the 100 people, do you get to choose them? Are they just like, did they use a randomizer to select these 100 people and they have no preparation? There are, you're right. There's a lot of ways that can shift it in the direction of,

I think the one gorilla, I could see if it was 100 people and some of them are just waking up, and some of them is just randomly at all random times of the day, and they're thrown into a thing and then told 10 10 at a time, one at a time, like then you're gonna be in trouble. So I think we need to imagine like what is the scenario, right? I think most people think of it as like an open field. You get a gorilla, you get a hundred humans, random humans or average humans, right? Pretty much like average humans. Yeah, I think that's probably right. Like we use a randomizer and it's just 100 random humans.

Yeah, and the humans can communicate. I think they have to because that is what humans do. Yeah, yeah. So I think if that's the scenario, I would fall on the character saying that it all depends on one key question, which is who is more motivated? Exactly. Like if the gorilla doesn't really want to fight and then other humans are, all the humans are like, why are we here? I don't know what we're supposed to attack this gorilla.

Then basically no fight is going to happen. Right. Yeah. If the gorilla feels threatened and the gorilla is like, I need to, I need to murder these young, young humans. Then I think it's on, you know, yeah. And I think, or the gorilla is passive, but you offer all the hundred humans. Hey, I'll give you a hundred million dollars to basically take out this gorilla

game style. Yeah. That's what I said. Squid game style. Yeah. You would need squid game motivation. Yeah. This is the thing.

So over the weekend, I was like, look, I was reading constant articles written by primatologists about this and a a I can't run to the fact that sadly, a gorilla would not not say I don't know why sadly because I've been so team gorilla will fucking destroy these hundred people. The gorilla would lose to 100 people was something every primatologist was like there's no too many people. Yeah, but the other part, which is what shamed me all the

primatologist are also like, but also shame on everyone for why are you even thinking this up? gorillas are some of the most gentle creatures with the capacity for emotion to play gently with their children, their power, like their partners, the other people like in their community. And this is just creating a very weird image of an animal that would a most likely just try to escape. Right.

Like a lot of people were like a gorilla would not have no interest in taking on a hundred human beings. So just by virtue of that, they're like, the people would probably win, but there was one guy who went on the, I think it was a Dan LeBattard show where painted a pretty vivid picture. The guy was like, I think you should not be entertaining this morbid thing. But yet again, but here I am entertaining it. So this is what I'm saying. So this is one of those like, fuck it.

You want an answer? This is how it would go down. And he said what we're both saying, the hundred men would have to be quote, committed and it would have to go in United. They said that that doesn't mean it would be pretty. The human assault force quote, would have to expect severe collateral damage that could easily include death from broken necks, severe arterial bite wounds, massive concussions

leading to fatal brain bleeds and asphyxiation from other men piling on top of them. It could be a kamikaze mission for the men closest to the gorilla. If they're willing to accept this, the group should be able to overtake the group and take the group to the next level. from other men piling on top of them. It could be a kamikaze mission for the men closest to the gorilla. If they're willing to accept this,

the group should be able to overtake the gorilla and inflict enough blunt force trauma combined with severe twisting of the head and neck while simultaneously inflicting severe abdominal punches that the gorilla would eventually succumb to either a broken neck, internal organ damage or asphyxiation. Then I think afterwards I was like, Jesus Christ.

Okay. Don't make it real. This is not as much fun anymore. It's like one of those things once you really dig in and it takes a scientist like, okay, you really want to have your little game. It's like the computer animation where people went up your mind. Is.

Yeah. Yeah. I hope you're ready to bite a gorilla's throat off at least 70 of you yeah that's what I mean it's like it really comes down to the flight fighter flight response you know like if it's a life or death situation then it's really on yeah and where my head went to as a roboticist was like this is I think it might help to think of this as the equivalent of like you, like you or me,

or an average person fighting a hundred sixth graders, right? Right. For Einstein level geniuses. Right. Now if this, because a hundred kids is a lot. It's like two school buses full of kids. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And you know, if this was a normal situation, you might be able to scare off a few of the kids. But if now, let's say, let's make the kids robots with like murderous programming and they're all trying to get you. Like, do you really think you'd stand a chance against a hundred murderous sixth grade geniuses? Right. Maybe not. Supervisor Bay just pointed out that there was a show called, Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader? And the physical challenge at the end was exactly what you're describing. One adult would then have to take on 30.

Was it Jeff Foxworthy, the host of that? Yeah, yeah, Jeff Foxworthy. No, I don't think they did that. And we're now realizing that was a massive missed opportunity on their part. Hmm. The suffocation from like the crushing is actually a really good point. I feel like, because we, yeah, well the, the way so many people die in like those crowd deaths where like, I think to get everything so real.

Yeah, I know. But it's basically all the weight from the back of the crowd pushes in on the people at the front of the crowd. Right. So if we're assuming all 100 people are going, then everybody at the front is not going to make it, but neither is the grilla, I'm assuming. Yeah. I'm now just like, I've just been so thoroughly shamed by science now.

I'm like, this is obviously not even useful. It's meant to feed this darkness about our society that we can't contend with. It goes back to being kids. I volunteered at my daughter's school library. One of the most popular book series that kids check out, it's like Shark versus Octopus or Shark or Gorilla versus tiger. Who's going to win? Yeah. My kids have checked that book out too. The good thing is it has a definitive answer that is in no way scientific,

but is very confident. Like the shark actually wins this one. Remember there were like YouTube videos where people were doing like insect battle royale death matches and you're like Scorpion versus Tarantula, and you're like, oh shit. All of those just got too real, and you're like, oh my God. Yeah. It was better when I thought of them as Transformers characters.

Yeah. It's like, will the Autobot defeat the Dino-Con? I don't know. My fucked up brain immediately when you were talking about the primatologist being like the gorillas are really gentle. I was like, they don't have that dog in them? All right. Grizzly bear. Moving on to grizzly bear. We've got to find a better soldier in this hypothetical question.

Okay. How about this? Sorry. Who, what is the animal that would fuck up a hundred men? Oh, thank you. You know? Hmm, I mean... Probably a hippo? I mean, if we're... Yeah, I think a hippo probably could do it. See, now we're like pivoting hard.

Because hippo is also in water a lot of the time. Like, anything that's in water, you're just sending a bunch of people. You're fighting in their world. Yeah, fighting on their... I think I have the answer. Yes. As they say, the most dangerous animal is the human. The human being.

One human versus a hundred humans? Or one human, a highly trained person with maybe resources might be the most dangerous animal. Jeff Bezos. The NRA has found their new ad campaign. They're like, how about one man versus a 100 with a rifle? Thank you. All right. We didn't get a chance to get to less important questions like, are near-death experiences real?

And what's it like to live and poop in space? So people are going to have to, the near-death experiences episode, by the way, I highly recommend people check it out because it's, yeah, it's like all the stuff that I had heard. And then like at a certain point been like, well, this can't all be true. Like it is real. Like the people across different cultures describe the same experience, but like, because they have different backgrounds, they like use different words.

So like they describe like tunnels in America, but like in cultures that haven't had experiences with tunnels, it'll be like caves or, you know, pipes in some places and that the experiences are very common across like a chunk of near death experiences. And then the really interesting reason for that that has to do with like LSD and brain chemicals is really cool. Magic mushrooms, yeah. Magic mushrooms, yeah. So highly recommend people go check it out. Jorge, where can people find that show, find you, all that good stuff? Yeah, it's an iHeart radio show. It's called Science Stuff.

That's one word, science stuff. And you can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts like this one. There you go. And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying or social media? Uh, I have been enjoying a work of media. Uh, and this goes a little bit into my free will being subverted, which is that my kids are really into Korean culture, going back to Korea, K-pop, K-pop groups. And so, and they use my YouTube account and my Spotify account. And so whenever I hop on to any of these platforms, I get inundated with K-pop stuff, which I've grown to like.

So there's some really fun creative stuff going on there. So check it out. Any artists specifically you want to shout out? Uh, well, I think, I think I need to consider myself an icon now. Kat Kat's I fan. Okay. My son is being in straight kids. Yeah.

Yeah. BTS, uh, black tank. Black. Yeah. Huge. And I think that's about where my knowledge of K-pop ends in terms of names. Amazing. Miles, where can people find you? Is there a work in media you've been enjoying?

Yes. You can find me everywhere. They have at symbols at miles of gray. You can find me lamenting the very hasty exit of the Lakers. It was a quick death. It was a quick death. It was painless. Look, someone had to go in first to fight the gorilla and we got our deck broken. The Lakers.

Oh, that's a better meme. Who would win, a grizzly bear or the Lakers? Depends on who the coach is, you know. JJ doesn't unleash that bench, bro. I'm a 40 year old LeBron is going to get washed. And also that's on Mad Boosties. Find me talking 90 day fiance on for 20 day fiance Work of media. I'm liking just the rehearsal just the rehearsal. That's been Three was it good. I

Her majesty was out of town this weekend on a trip So I I sat on it because I didn't you know, whenever you're watching Victor in the chat just said, bro. Also yesterday in our another group chat that we had with Anna, who produced Anna Hosena, she was just even like, y'all, this next episode every weekend, because she's on the East Coast. She's always like, guys, this next one fucking destroyed. It's like that's the energy she always has in describing this show. So anyway, check out the rehearsal. No, you can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien on blue sky at Jack OB the number one work of media I've been enjoying at Kyle train emoji tweeted Jackie Chan accidentally getting stuck inside a gorilla costume and then having to fight off 100 guys.

That's, I mean, That's such a good pitch. That's the ultimate Jackie Chan scene. You can find us on Twitter and Blue Sky at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. You can go to the description of this episode wherever you're listening to it and there you will find the footnotes, which is where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. We also link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. We also link off to a song that we think you might enjoy.

Miles, is there a song that you think people might enjoy? Yeah, there's a new track from the Baltimore-based hardcore punk band called Turnstyle. This new track is called Never Enough, and the guitars, just's like just the production It's very I don't know It feels very like 90s alternative in a way like the way the guitar the just guitar distortion hits my brain It's I don't know like I feel like I'm listening to K rock in like 98 or something

But anyway, all their stuff is really dope But this is that one of their newest tracks called never enough by the group turnstile check it out Right We will look off to that in the footnotes. The Daily Zeitgeist is the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us this morning.

We're back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. Bye. The Daily Zeitgeist is executive produced by Catherine Law. Co-produced by Bae Wang. Co-produced by Victor Wright. Co-written by J.M. McNabb.

Edited and engineered by Justin Connor. of the On Purpose podcast, and I'm excited for my next episode with Khloe Kardashian. God, I've been through so many things that at this point, I would rather not feel than feel because feeling is too much for me to handle. I am Khloe Kardashian. Khloe Kardashian, everybody. Khloe Kardashian. No one understands how it's...

I'm not just a TV show. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater podcast network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of Free Seaventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of 2B. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Sam Mullins, and I've got a new podcast coming out called Go Boy,

the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable. Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted. That spent 24 of those years in jail. But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex-con to a literary darling. From Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts, listen to Go Boy on the iHeart Podcast.