The Daily Zeitgeist - American Colonialism: A Shockingly Modern Story 11.21.23

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

In episode 1585, Jack and guest co-host Joelle Monique are joined by Professor of Alaska Native Languages at the University of Alaska Southeast and host of The Tongue Unbroken, X̱ʼunei Lance Twitchell, to discuss… Indigenous Languages: The State Of Them, The Impact Of Representation In Media On Marginalized Communities and more! LISTEN: The Slang Word P*ssy Rolls Off The Tongue With Far Better Ease Than The Proper Word Vagina. Do You Agree? by André 3000 READ Adam Tod Brown's Ace Of Base Article: How A Pop Band Tricked 9 Million Americans Into Being NazisSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese.

Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have

changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pardenti

and I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation,

then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 314, episode two of Dirt Daily's iGuys Day production of iHeartRadio. This is a podcast where we dig a deep dive into a marriage to share consciously. It is Tuesday, November 21st, 2023. And my name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. Potatoes O'Brien. Let's go with a savory potato dish for this Thanksgiving week. And I'm thrilled to be joined by a guest co-host who is the producer behind shows like Fake Doctors, Real Friends, and along with Ana Hosnier and many others, the NextUp podcast initiative.

She's a brilliant writer who you can read at Vulture, the AV Club, Teen Vogue. You've heard her on Pop Culture Happy Hour. And most importantly, on this podcast, it's joelle monique hey happy tuesday happy tuesday happy tuesday joelle yes one day closer to turkey day that's right and what you you will be having turkey a hundred percent columbia turkey yeah looking forward to it yeah amazing place and bake rolls you know we're keeping it simple i think we ordered a ham A hundred percent. Columbia-fied turkey. Yeah. Looking forward to it. Yeah. Amazing. Got my place and bake rolls. You know, we're keeping it simple.

I think we ordered a ham. Yeah. You know. I think I'm going to order a ham. Yes. My in-laws are coming. Wait, you haven't ordered it yet? No. Jeff, we should pause the podcast.

You can order this ham. I know. I need to go order some ham. Hold on. And we're back. The ham's all sold out. I'm fucked. I'm coming to your Thanksgiving dinner, Joy.

Perfect. My wife's family is coming into town, so we usually have a Korean feast. And then a handful of kind of small traditional Thanksgiving sides and like one sort of meat. Korean American tapas. I feel like that's a vibe. Oh, for sure. So good. But yeah, my kids are like starting to call it Turkey Day.

And like Mashed Potatoes Day was something. Children are the best. That my five-year-old said this morning. Yes. I showed him the damn Charlie Brown Thanksgiving. And that blew it for me. Because I do typically serve popcorn and little little things of candy instead of just whatever i have and on the shelves i like calling it turkey day because

then it's just the day we eat turkey and there's nothing else happening around it's just this is the day we eat turkey it's a day that's's been solidified to eat turkey with your family. I take no joy in anything the United States has ever done in its entire existence. It's a hot mess over here. Yeah. But, you know, then there's a turkey on the table, and that's always nice. Yeah. You know, it's pretty.

And it's not letting us, who don't prepare well, off the hook. It's like, there better be some fucking turkey, pal. All right. Well, Joelle, we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by one of our favorite guests on the Daily Zeitgeist, a professor of Alaska Native Languages at the University of Alaska Southeast and the host of the podcast, The Tongue Unbroken, which will be dropping season two on all our asses in the not too distant future. Season one is up.

So worth your time. Please welcome back to the show, Dr. Hunne Lance Twitcher! I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes. Decolonize. Nothing can stand it white supremacy's underhanded I saw the sign

and it opened up my eyes decolonize when you're gonna smarten up and give the land back to whom it belongs tell me where does it belong? Wow.

Bomb drop. All the bomb drop. Drop all the bombs. I thought of that while I was walking my dogs. I walk my dogs at night and it's snowing. We got blizzard conditions, which is fine because it's Alaska. knowing like we got blizzard conditions which is fine because it's alaska but i was just thinking i was like i gotta have some kind of cute like jingle or something i like my goal is to take a whole bunch of pop songs and just make them decolonial anthems so there you go working on

over here i wonder if ace of base would approve i'm not sure i haven't you know i'd like to just you haven't checked with them i'll reach out, what's your standpoint on this whole colonization thing? Then I'll decide whether or not. Does Ace of Base have a secret? I don't know if I'm just talking internet rumors right now. Do they have a secret Nazi past? I don't know if it's internet rumors or not, but I do think that one of the members had a Nazi past. And there is like some weird similarities between like ace of bases it was like the name of

the nazi submarine base during world war ii if they turn out to be like nazi supporters and i just took their shit for the good yeah there you go take that claimed it i love it yeah adam todd brown uh from unpopular opinioninion Podcast has written, wrote a really cool article about that for us back at Cracked and has a lot of, it's worth checking out because it's definitely makes you take a look. And also like All That She Wants Is Another Baby was their other hit. And it was basically a portrait of a welfare queen. It was kind of... What?

Ace of Bases? So what are you doing from that first song? Yes, I know. Well, fuck those Aces of Bases then. Aces of Bases. When you say blizzard conditions and you're talking Alaska, what are we looking at?

Yeah, so Juneau is not the snowiest place in Alaska. We are, we are the most, how did you say it? We get the most precipitation per day, I think. So there's some, there's some communities South of us that get the most rain. We're talking like 140 inches a year. And so we don't really compare to that, but we have the most rainy days, I think, out of anywhere on the Northwest coast. And so we've got some folks who are not from Juneau. And when that came out in the paper, they were kind of walking around, head down, sad, you know, because I think what I try to tell people is the weather is not an emotional barometer. So just because it's raining doesn't

mean you had to be sad. I don't care what the commercials say. And so I was like, we're the champions because on the newspaper says Juneau has the most rainy days on the Northwest coast. I was like, we did it. We did it, folks. And so for us to get a bunch of snow kind of messes us up a little bit. And so we're talking like 16 to 24 inches in a day, which is a lot for us. So that's a lot for most people. That is, in my professional opinion, too much snow. Yeah. So this and so this will also see like how much have you been putting off for winter? Because we've got to get ready for winter here. You've got to get your heating system looked at. You've got to get your shovels out from wherever they are you got to put the broom thing

in your car you got to make sure you got wipers that are worth a damn and aren't you know just faded pieces of cracked rubber that are trying to like scratch some stuff off your windshield you're coming for me with that description that that is You're coming for my wipers, I guess, because my wipers cold because it's just something about the humidity and the cold that does it. And if you go out on a boat on the ocean, that's pretty serious stuff. What's the coldest you've ever experienced? So if you go inland from here, like so we have Tlingit communities that are in what is now Canada for some reason. And I say for some reason because it's all Singatani.

Like it's all our land. And then they come and like cut it in half and say you need a passport to get to this side. To go down the street. Yeah, but we'll have language classes. We have folks who call in from Canada and we'll start, you know, having conversations and we'll be complaining about the weather

as humans like to do. And we'll say, yeah, it's cold. And then they'll say, yeah, it's 40 below here. And that's Celsius. And 40 below is like the level point. It's like, it doesn't matter if you're doing Fahrenheit or Celsius. Fahrenheit and Celsius meet. I just discovered this.

Yeah. Fahrenheit and Celsius should never meet in a temperature. It's the coldest I've ever experienced. It was like 2011. There was snowpocalypse in Chicago. So it snowed all day. And then overnight the temperature just plummeted. So like cars like froze on Lakeshore Drive.

Which is our like longest street that runs along the lake. It was unbearable. I was like this is new levels of just complete icy coldness. I can't even. I can't imagine that being like, yeah, this is sort of our average around here every day. That's, you gotta, it's like when I watch people in Russia and they're like, no, it's fine. I have a fur coat. I'm walking around. It's good.

I'm like, this is, the human body is incredible. Fur coat, jogging pants. Yeah. Two fun things about like 40, 50 below is because we lived in fairbanks for a while my family and i and so if you open the door you can see the cold roll in like fog like it just like rolls in really quickly into the house like you can see the cold see the air like kind of it has a different quality to it yeah yeah and then then you could take a hot beverage like coffee or tea and go outside and throw it in the air and it just

turns into steam. It just turns into like a little cloud. We tried the experiment when it was very cold with bubbles where we would try to freeze bubbles instantly, which was kind of fun. And you just blow a bubble and then icicles will just form around it.

It just falls to the ground like you blow it on like a surface where your mouth can reach i guess it could be ground level we had like a little ledge on our patio so that it had some time to frost over but it took like seconds it was crazy turns into christmas tree ornaments basically perfect yes exactly exactly prepare for winter everybody it's coming not for me i'm not i'm not fixing my windshield wipers it's not doing anything fuck all that and i couldn't i have to assume that like all the schools are closed down with 16 inches of snow like uh no the schools are like they you know everybody was talking last

well i guess there's these like Facebook groups. And so people were saying, hey, is school going to be canceled? And I think a bunch of kind of old schoolers from this part were like, no, man, no. And, you know,

and people are like, well, I got to figure out what to do. How am I going to get my kids there? How am I going to get them home? I lived in this one place and the school closed and they had to just sleep in the school.

But yeah, but we get get snow like they'll be out plowing this stuff they're out there right now like the the people who like the the city of juneau and the state of alaska the folks who like work on roads they'll get this stuff cleared out although there's a community uh anchorage which um they are not good at plowing their streets. But in Juneau- Wow, that sounds like some local beef. It is. Anchorage sucks at plowing their streets. Well, there was a guy and he's like this super conservative politician and he won, he won.

And his whole thing is like budget cuts. I think he ran on these platforms of kind of hate and budget cuts, which seems to be kind of hate and budget cuts which which seems to be kind of a conservative platform and so now the streets don't get plowed and so there was some sort of it was a great little internet picture and it showed like be careful what you ask for was one of his like campaign signs and so there's a picture of him it says be careful what you ask for and like just a shit ton of snow like on the roads because

people can't really get around. But the schools here, like they'll usually send us a text like six in the morning and they're like, yeah, just dust it off, bro, and get your kids to school. But the after school stuff will be closed because, you know, we don't want to get too wild. But the school itself,

like, let's go. Get to tunneling get tunneling folks that's that's amazing i lived in kentucky for a while and it's like thinks of itself as southern but it still gets snow most winters and it just has to be the rumor of snow and they will shut down school for like a week they're just like we're gonna be this is this is a mess we're a mess during a quote snowstorm atlanta their highways are already terrible so even the hint of snowfall is just chaos 48 hours of traffic jam yeah exactly it's Yeah, exactly. It's like that exact longitudinal or latitudinal line of Lexington, Kentucky, Atlanta. You don't want to get caught there during a snowstorm. We've been talking about wanting to talk to you about Hunay every time you come on the show.

So we're going to devote a whole episode to kind of talking about, we're going to get into Buffy St. Marie, the concept of pretendians, native movies, what's the new Scorsese movie, Killers of the Flower Moon, and then just indigenous languages and the role that language has played in genocide, among many other things. But before we get to any of it, we do like to get to know you a little bit better and ask you, what is something from your search history? Yeah, so my search history is usually a lot of policy for the United States government and trying to get to the bottom of it. You know, so there's some different things I was thinking about with boarding schools and how did these boarding schools run, who was running them. And so we are doing some, there's a group that I'm involved with, a council called the

Alaska Native Language Preservation and Advisory Council. And we're talking about the history of boarding schools and what they were for Native American peoples. And for a lot of people, that might not be something that they have to think about on a regular basis, is that there were schools where children were forcibly taken from their parents and brought to these places and completely stripped of their identity. and completely stripped of their identity.

And so if you want to just sort of like think of scenes from movies about Auschwitz or about the Holocaust, like that was happening here just to brown people. And so a lot of people don't pay attention to it. So sometimes we got to take a look at this stuff. And so some of the things that we've been searching for is could we make a list of every boarding school that was running in Alaska? And then could we have some sort of acknowledgement and healing ceremony with these places? Because they are run by the United States government, and they're also run by religious organizations, Christian organizations

in the United States who are colonizing and trying to eliminate indigenous languages and indigenous cultures. And so there's a wonderful colleague of mine, his name is Dr. Waki Charles, and he teaches the Yuchten language, the Yupik language. He's at Fairbanks, and he was at one of these schools. So it did happen a long time ago, but it happened for a long time as well. So there are people alive today who went to these schools. And he talks about how he went there and how his mother had no idea where he was going. She didn't speak English. She had no idea when he was coming home. They just took him and they took his clothes and they put a number. His name was taken and his new name was number 12.

And number 12 was written on all of his clothes. Number 12 was written on all of his belongings. And that's what he was referred to. And so he talks about, you know, and where he went. So his family is from Western Alaska, which is very far from where we are. But he was brought here to a community called Wrangell, to a school called Wrangell Institute. And at some of these schools, these teachers have written books. I'm not going to say their names. I'm not going to say the name of the book because it's trash. But in the book, they say, you know, so this is their, basically their memoir of teaching in Alaska. They said, we couldn't get them to stop speaking their own language. And we wanted them to learn English, but we developed, and this is their words,

a heroic remedy, which was to take these two chemicals, one that's very bitter and one that burns the inside of your mouth. And we would soak a rag in that. And then when one of them started speaking their language, we would stuff the rag in their mouth. Jesus Christ. So it's stuff like that. But every now and then, I'll be on the internet looking for something that's not horrible. But I think people need to look at this

and not be afraid of examining it. Because as a nation, if we don't say like, this was part of our history, this was something that we did, this is what education was for native people i think if you don't examine that then it never fully changes into something else can i ask you about acknowledgement and because i feel like every time you you know as part of

like the black community there a lot of times we were like, what does acknowledging slavery do for you? There's like this very, it happened forever ago. It's history. Why do we need these things? And I'm just curious, you know, you're such a large part of your community organizing. And what does, for you, what do these acknowledgements mean? Well, part of these acknowledgements are to say colonization is an act of like complete dehumanization on every possible aspect. So you have to dehumanize the people that you're doing this to. And when we talk about colonization,

we're not talking about like, oh, let's go move over here and build a house and search for our own personal freedom, which is usually what we're sort of sold on. Life was tough, so they found this place where they could make it work, and they had belt buckles on their hats or something. We're not really taught a whole lot about... Hats, shoes, everything was covered in belt buckles. Just get us more buckles. How the fuck am I going to find enough belt buckles? Maybe that was the problem. We need to keep expanding. They see all these native people like, these motherfuckers, they don't enough belt buckles? Maybe that was the problem. And they're like, keep expanding. They say all these native people like these motherfuckers, they don't got no buckles.

We got wiped them out. And so it's probably more complicated than that. But the problem is, is to, in order to really like completely try to annihilate someone, you have to dehumanize them because the population has to figure out how to be on, on board with that because you can get individuals who can subscribe

to fascist beliefs and say yeah like fucking wipe them out but to get like a whole population to do that you have to sort of create this collective denial which No, we're not. Just a shining example. And so one is just saying, okay, this happened and this is something we have to rectify because if I burned your house down and then we were going to stay friends or just even live next to each other. And if I never talked about it and nothing ever happened to me, that would be so, it would be awkward at the least, right? Like you see me like burn my house down, you fucker.

And I was just like, hey, I'm just getting my newspaper. Why you gotta yell at me, right? But then also like how, if that is part of the foundation story of the United States of America, then how do you reconcile with ending that violence against peoples if you'd never even look at the thing? And so to say, like, let's actually look at that. One of the things that can be really tremendously healing, because I don't think we talk enough about any of this stuff. But the colonizer also must dehumanize in order to do that kind of stuff. Because on a day-to-day basis, you don't just, I don't think, you don't just walk into someone's kitchen and eat all their food and slap them in the face and just like claim their kitchen as theirs, as yours. But we've done that

collectively, right? Like colonizers have done that to indigenous peoples and so i think there's opportunities when you embrace decolonization for the descendants of the colonizers to also reconnect with humanity but i think they're really terrified to i was given some talks the other day and i was saying i really like science fiction films i like horror films but sometimes if you watch a science fiction movie. I like horror films. But sometimes if you watch a science fiction movie, it's like there's these white people and then aliens come or some kind of monster and they're going to take all their stuff and take their language and take everything. It's like this, it's a horror, you know, or there's some huge apocalypse, right? And so

these post-apocalyptic kind of films, I think about them, but I watch them. I'm like, yeah, yeah, we've lived that. We've done that, right? Like they came, they took the stuff. Like, you know, it must be scary for you, but it's our reality. But I think about that stuff a lot

because I think as we talk about concepts like decolonization, there are probably quite a few white people who think, oh, now they're going to put us on reservations and make us stop speaking English. That is always the go-to. They're like, well, if we acknowledge it, then there'll be white slavery. Like, I don't want to own slaves. Like, my ancestors survived it. Why would I put someone else in such a ridiculous thought? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a survey that came out of Harvard a while ago, and there was like interviewing, I guess, people in the South. And they're saying, do you think that white people have it harder now than black people did during the era of slavery?

And there was a lot of them that checked the box. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's real hard for us. People are people are real mad at us. So that's got to be really hard. But I think the acknowledgement as well is saying, could we become something else? There's about 500 languages that were on this continent. And California is the most linguistically diverse part of North America. And every one of those languages is almost gone. And so as we look at that, like what happens when a language is gone?

What happens when a species is gone? And I want to be careful with that because a lot of times Native Americans, you know, if you go to some big museum, we're not there with like Monet and these, you know, whoever else is making a bunch of art. We're over by the wolves and the moose. We're by the animals. You said the distinction between art and we get artifacts and white people get science and we get ecological knowledge. Right. And so trying to sort of also just say, no, let's just like everything is a thing. And let's just sort of say, yeah, we can have multiple perspectives. thing. And let's just sort of say, yeah, we can have multiple perspectives. And then you can also, but you know, one of the things where science has a hard time with us is they'll say, oh,

is that a medicine? Like, yeah, that the thing that comes out of a tree, you could put it on a wound and it'll seal it right up. Oh, well, how do you guys know that? Like, oh, because Raven got that information from the sea otters and he tricked them and now we know it and and that's that's fine for us but i think for science they need some sort they need they need probably a white guy in a lab coat yeah story of a white guy in a lab coat yeah with like a bad mustache and like weird glasses that's strapped to his ears or something all right um let's take a quick break and we'll come back we'll we'll talking about this. We'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast,

Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer,

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where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them boys.

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The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. And we're back. And first of all, we started off this episode talking about Thanksgiving. And I'd just be interested in hearing, like, as to your metaphor of the person who burns down your house and then is just like, expects you to be cool with it and continues living there. And then they're like, hey, we're having a party to celebrate that time I burned down your house and you were cool with it. Do you want to come over or don't come over and just continue being cool with it? What is Thanksgiving like for you and where you live? Yeah, yeah. Colonization is so interesting because there's some things I think

Indigenous peoples accept and some things that they reject. And so one of my examples is, you know, we get, people keep track of our blood quantum. The government keeps track of, I've got a card. Well, I've got two actually that say what my fraction is of my Indigenous identity. And so that's not something I think that very many people get, but that's something indigenous people get. And that tells you whether or not you qualify for things or if you can go shoot a seal. And so a lot of times as we look at that stuff and blood quantum is what it's called. And so sometimes we'll be like, fuck blood quantum, man. You can't measure me. You can't measure my indigenous identity. But then we got a dog,

and I'll be like, this dog is 100% German Shepherd. I'll show you the papers. It's a purebred, right? And so some things we reject and some things we accept, and sometimes those are similar things. And so for us, we eat, we throw down a turkey. I mean, that's just something I grew up with. And then we'll do stuffing. We'll do all that stuff. They have Tlingit names. And the Tlingit names are not great. Because when we saw that turkey and it had, you know, and turkeys are indigenous to North America. But they're not indigenous to where we are. Yeah.

So it's got that sort of long thing that hangs down from its beak or whatever. I don't know what it's called. The gobbler. Gobbler. Yeah. Giblet. So they called it shakayt, which means a snot nose, which is not a nice name. We're usually so respectful to our food.

But then I had an elder over. We had this big Thanksgiving dinner. And we were stuffing the bird. Or maybe we're pulling stuffing out of the bird because we were having the dinner. And I said, well, we, we can call this the stuffing. Because, you know, that's not a great word either, just in English. And then we're like, well, you know. Yeah, stuffing is a gross word.

You kind of put it in the turkey's ass and then you mix a bunch of stuff. It's yummy. And so we started out with the bread that's in the turkey's butt. And then we end up with turkey poop. And so it's like, okay, we're just going to have to stick with stuffing for some of this stuff. But at our university, some of our students had a great idea, which is, there was a time when universities usually had Thanksgiving break and Christmas break and Easter break, right? And so as we look at that, we say, well, a university is not a Christian institution, so we don't need to have those. We can have, so at our university, we had winter break and then we had spring break. And so we said, well,

why don't we have fall break instead of Thanksgiving break? And what was interesting, instead of Thanksgiving break. And what was interesting, again, coming back to colonial overreactions, which are, you know, this was a classic colonial overreaction, I think. So we pitched this idea, everybody's on board. Everyone's like, yeah, that's great, because not everybody acknowledges, you know, the story behind Thanksgiving, which was, you know, sometimes they'll say, oh, well, these Native Americans and these pilgrims had a great meal and they really shook hands and figured it out, I guess, you know, which is, I remember I saw this, some sort of little clip. I can't find it anymore. pilgrims murder all the indigenous people. And you can laugh at it because it's so horrible, but it's also like just sort of goes against what we're usually taught, which is these artificial narratives of just how nice white people were here. Yeah, that's also in Adam's Family Values, by the way. Oh, that's right. That's right. Where she's, you know, she burns down the village, right? Yeah. And so, but as we had this one meeting, we said, yeah, well, all we're doing is on the calendar of the university,

it won't say Thanksgiving closure. It'll say fall closure. That's all we're trying to do. Right. And someone says, well, I think the students should be able to eat turkey. And I said, bro, I never said anything about turkey. Like, I don't. Yeah. Like the cafe. Like they could serve whatever kind of food they want to. No one's suggesting that changes.

And then he said, well, I think people should be able to gather with their families over this break. And I said, I never said they like, I don't know where you're getting this information. Like, it's literally just changing what the thing is called on a calendar. I'm not going to go into your house and like make you disperse. Like, I don't understand. There's no, there's no Gestapo coming for your Thanksgiving gathering. And so, and then that same person, he's, he wanted to talk to me more. So I gave him my phone number. And when I picked up the phone, he said, thanks for taking the time. I was like, yeah, like, I'm happy to talk about this stuff. And he said, I just don't think you know how hard it is to be a Christian these days. And in my mind, I'm

thinking, this is not the conversation I want to have. But okay, let's listen. Because, you know, the same thing with the war on Christmas and this idea that Christianity is under threat. Like I can drive this one loop in town and I think I hit like 12 churches. I'm like, where are they going? Right. I think what's particularly wild about that is Thanksgiving is not a Christian holiday. Right. In Rome, the Vatican is not preparing a Thanksgiving day meal.

It's bizarre to equate the two. I don't, that's wild to me. That's wild. Yeah. You made this metaphor in season one of The Tongue Unbroken about they take your land, the colonialists take your land, and then build a beautiful home on it. And then when you say, okay, I'm going to also build a home here they say you can't because that will destroy my home like and i don't know it it just really resonated to me as just someone who lives in this cold like you know things i've been hearing in conversations around gaza as well and you know that people aren't able to continue to live there because somehow their continued existence is devaluing to the existence of the people who are kind of

forcing them off their land. And it just, it seems to have this same corrupted overall logic over and over again, repeatedly. Yeah, I think some of the things that are happening over there are really difficult for people in the United States, because I think the United States, it's very easy to hate people who are Jewish, and it's very easy to hate people who are Muslim. And so, and it's very easy to hate people who are brown. It's kind of baked into the culture, and you have to consciously move against these things at all times in order to sort of not, by default, have these feelings of hatred or otherness.

And so I think it's really hard because they're like, oh, well, what side do I pick? Because these guys look kind of like me, so they pick those guys. But also, there's just so many different things that are coded in language, that are coded in film and entertainment where we're supposed to just hate these people and other them. And so I think when people look at this stuff, we see so much violence and we hear about violence.

And we're like, well, yeah, they're in hospitals. So we got to blow up the hospitals so that we can, we can get the bad guys, you know? And so I don't know if that's really a heroic tactic. I don't know if that's a tactic that's really has an ethical sort of grounding and, you know, to say like, it doesn't matter who's there. We need to get this small group of people. And so we'll kill all these people to get them. And so there's some things I think that really ring true for a lot of indigenous peoples, which is battle over land. But then there's some things that I think for a lot of our indigenous communities might be difficult for us to

understand. Like, well, whose land is it? Because they crossed an ocean to get here. And so that was pretty clear. You know, I know there's some people who, someone, people like to tag me in things. And so there was this wonderful news article about a Native American language center that was starting in Oregon. from Oregon, which is a place with its own problems. Because I think until not too long ago, it was like illegal for Black people to live there. And like, you know, it's a complicated place. I was in southwestern Oregon, and there's a road there called Dead Indian Memorial Road. My word.

And they have this, yeah, they have this big sign that says, you know, this place, this road used to be called Dead Indian Road. We realized that was not a sensitive name. So we changed the name to Dead Indian Memorial Road. What? Oregon, no! And I was like, you were so close and you landed so far. close and you landed so far. And so some of the problems I think that are present in a lot of Native American communities, which are probably present all through the United States, is we don't

get educated on the history of the Middle East. We don't get educated on why are people in this fight over the land and about nations and belonging. And people are very quick to say, oh, you're anti-Semitic, just because you're saying, like, don't blow up hospitals. That seems to be the one point that you can just, whether you know a lot about the history or not, it just feels like the one thing that i feel like we've been consistent on on this show is just like but anytime there's killing of innocent people like there was an october 7th or has been since in gaza like that's pretty self-evidently not the way to go and like

something that should be opposed in all its forms. But yeah. Yeah, and it's complicated too because you've got people of color over there. It's a real mixing zone. It's a real mixing zone. And so, but also like you guys were talking about this the other day, we grew up in the 1980s, like who are the bad guys in films? It was Russians and Muslims, right?

And so probably more Muslims than Russians. And so I think there's a lot of stuff that you can attach to to just hate people because they are Muslim, and you don't understand that. And so instead of sort of looking into who are these people and what do they do and how can I get to know them more? And again, can you connect to humanity? But it all gets very quickly twisted as well through a bunch of different distorted lenses. Yeah. One thing that I wanted to drive home is just, you know, in talking about the, you know, erasure of cultural value and languages as a cultural and linguistic genocide, value and languages as a cultural and linguistic genocide. Like you mentioned throughout the first season of The Tongue Unbroken that youth suicide rates among Native Alaskan youths is tragically

high. And it's something that you hear a lot in the, in, you know, accounts of people who are being actively oppressed and who not not just in physically but you know in these ideologically like philosophical ideological conditions that are inhospitable to the human like to human life like that and i i just i feel like that is clarifying in a way that this erasure of identity and the choking off of the ability to create meaning for oneself and identity for oneself causes people to actually lose their lives causes children to like harm themselves and that just connecting those two things like there are a lot of schools of philosophy and psychology that identify the search for meaning as one of the most important human needs. It will sustain you through the prison camps in Auschwitz, but without it, you can't survive anything. You can't survive

daily life. And it feels like a lot of the things that you're talking about in the boarding schools and just throughout the history of colonization are very systemic examples of attacks on those things that make a life possible, make it possible to live and find meaning. make it possible to live and find meaning. Yeah. Last week was the birthday of a man named Khajakthi. His English name was Walter Sobolev. And he lived to be 102 years old. And he was so fun to talk to. Like his Tlingit was so good.

And he was a pastor in a church for a long time. They closed his church because he would do his sermons in Tlingit as well as English. And so I guess like, but on that note, the Presbyterian church, who has a hand in language and culture suppression, a bunch of horrible stuff in this part of the world, they held a community listening session and they held several of them. Then they came back a month or two later, and they said they made a public apology, and they said they were wrong, it was racist, and they said, you know, like, it wasn't our decision, but it was our institution, and we recognize that, and we apologize. And then they made a million-dollar commitment to language and culture revitalization in our region. And that stuff is important, because Walter Soboloff, he used to say, people who know who they are don't kill themselves. And when we look at suicide rates in Alaska Natives, it's a very horrifying thing

because it's the leading cause of death among Alaska Native youth. The suicide rates are by far the highest in the nation. I remember I was listening to your guys' podcast and you had a guest on, this was years ago, who said like white males are the ones with the highest suicide rates. And I just remember thinking, oh, not even close. Maybe by like, just like the number of people. But if you're talking like per capita, if you're talking like per person, if we were white people, it would be a national emergency. There would be, there would be movements, there'd be posters, there'd be all kinds of stuff, but it's a native problem. So, you know, people just look the other way at this kind of stuff. But coming back to the boarding schools, like they, they came and they took the

children. Like, so they, like taking your children out of your home is huge. We cannot overlook the impact of this because then the parents, what are they going to do? Because then they're also losing the land. And so they turn to alcohol, they turn to things to try and fill those voids. And so we're connected with this group called the Polynesian Voyaging Society. And sometimes they're called the Hokalea because one of their canoes is called the Hokalea. It's Hawaiian voyagers who have brought back their traditional way of navigating way out in the open ocean. just incredible, incredible indigenous science. And so we had them over here and there was a guy named Uncle Billy who was just really breaking it down for me. He's like, here's, colonialism is complicated. It's complicated because what they did simultaneously was they banished our warrior society. So they kept us from defending ourselves and our own peoples. And then they began to rape and murder the women. Like we have lots of stories. In our community, when they built a naval base there, that's when our women started washing up on the beaches dead, you know, and so they, and we gain our cl take out our mothers and our sisters and our aunties and our daughters, it really began to crush us. And this is where we talk about colonialism and the absolute inhumanity that it was. There's a place, they call it Seduction Point.

And I have a real problem with that because it was called Ketqakhiyah, the place where a dog cries, which is there's nothing wrong with that name. But the story that we were told was there was a Tlingit settlement there. They were running a fish camp and the men went out to fish and to work on stuff. And these Navy soldiers showed up and they sexually assaulted the women. And then they gave it that name, Seduction Point. And so the level of disgusting is very high when we look at some of this stuff. So then you separate the people from the land by saying, you have to live here now. This is ours. You have to move over here. And in Alaska, especially Southeast Alaska, they would form these Indian towns, like,

y'all got to go live here. Now y'all got to go live there. Now y'all got to go live there. And again, like, this is not ancient history. There's a village just across the way. Well, there's a town, it's called Douglas, and it used to be a village. And when the people, like our lifestyle was we would go to a fish camp in the summer, fish and put up your foods and pick berries and do all this stuff. Then you come back to your homes in the winter. So they're gone in the summer. And so white people burn their homes down. This is the 1960s. And then they built the city on top of it. And then your language is banished. And one of the big, big problems is if you think about all these movements to try and make English just a nicer language, right? Because some people will say, how come they can call themselves that, but I can't? Let's have that conversation. Because this was a weapon. This was a social weapon. And people took control of it. And we've got all kinds of communities. And so the queer community, the Black community, the Asian community, they have these different things

that were derogatory terms for them. And they take them. They say, oh yeah, we'll call each other that. Well, you can't. And there's a whole history behind that. But so if we look at this kind of stuff and we look at English is trying to get nicer as a language. Some people get really angry, right? They call it politically correct. And so if you say politically correct, you probably need to work on yourself and your understanding of how the world works and your sense of humanity. But if you think of what was English 100 years ago, what was English 200 years ago? Probably a lot worse in terms of talking about Native Americans, talking about Black people. And if that's the language you're replacing our language with, like our language, we love ourselves in our language. We love each other in our language. And then we have this other, this English that is not capable of doing it the same way.

So then one of the other sort of things, and this is called inward banishment. So for Native American people, you take this child, you cut their hair, you make them wear white people clothes, and you give them a number instead of a name. And then eventually you just give them an English name or her. And then you put them through the school and these schools are horrible. There's so much torture that happened at them. There's such gross food and such physical and sexual abuse at these places. And people, kids got killed. And then you say, okay, now you have to be white. You have to be white. If you are yourself, I will physically punish you. I will torture you. I'll stuff things in your mouth.

All kinds of stuff. We got all kinds of stories of what kids have gone through. But then when they try to be white, then they'll say, who are you trying to be us? You're just a second class citizen. There's this one elder, she said, my teachers never hit me for speaking my language. But when I was a little girl, this one school teacher called me over every day and she'd say, you know, you people think you're just as good as us, but you're not and you never will be. You're a second class citizen. So this is how school teachers used to talk to kids. And so trying to sort of look at that and just dealing with it.

And, you know, I know white people get scared that people are coming for them, which is, you know, I think there's a lot of guilt there. Just because like, oh, man, we were fucking everything up. But someone going to come fuck us up too yeah but i think it's not nobody's well there probably are some people but collectively i don't think indigenous peoples are looking for that we're just looking for a little bit of balance and so but i think trying to look at that stuff is very terrifying because then you have to rectify it somehow yeah and you know and for, if we have to carry the burden on our own, people, they're just killing themselves. And if we look at this, we say, you're going to let these kids just completely lose themselves? And it's hard. It's hard to figure out what to do now. But I

think if we can get more people on board with conversations about what could decolonization look like and what could a place that's not assimilating anymore look like? And we might have a more equitable place. Yeah. All right. Let's take another quick break. We'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high-control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these

types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed?

Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take?

Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry,

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them boys. I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch.

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And we're back. I wanted to ask you about representation in the media. Killers of the Flower Moon is out right now. Lots of stories going around about that film. You and I have talked a lot about Reservation dogs and about the impact that has had on you and you know i'm curious as you know i think a lot of like in my community we talk a lot about seeing black boy joy first time a lot of times black men are either depicted as being very hard or in the penal system or trying to overcome civil rights usually like these are the spaces you can occupy as a black man so seeing you know black dudes get to be silly and goofy and funny

with each other there's an element of recognition like oh no that's actually what my family and my friends look like there's a feeling of at least for speaking just for myself like hopefulness of oh this is something cool that children can watch and see themselves because I remember when there was almost nothing on tv for me to watch where people looked like me and as we're seeing I think more obviously not enough indigenous representation in media. What is feeling good for you? How are you feeling about Killers of the Flower, Moon? And what do you hope the future of Indigenous representation looks like?

Yeah, everyone should just go see Reservation Dogs. That's a good starting point. Just get into Indigenous stories and Indigenous television. It's such a wonderful and groundbreaking thing to have. But also, it's not quite mainstreamed. It kind of is, but you've got to have a Hulu subscription, I think. And maybe we're beyond the days of what these types of shows would have been. And you could do a lot more if it's not on broadcast television. So I get that because, you know, you could have shit ass in there like a million times. And so which is what they call each other. And so as as indigenous peoples as well, like sometimes you have these endearing terms that a lot of people might be offended by. But some of the things I think about, I understand the conversations about, is this just

trauma porn for white people where they get to watch us suffer? And it's triggering to see Native women. There's whole movements about missing and murdered Indigenous women because Indigenous women, they experience violence at rates per capita higher than probably anybody in the United States. And 80% of those perpetrators are white. And, you know, there was a study that came out from the Department of Justice that said that. that. If you look at major racial groups in the United States, Native Americans are the only ones who experience the majority of violent crimes from outside their own group. And it's by white perpetrators. And so it's very difficult to see. But I remember when the Watchmen series came out on HBO and how many people got alerted to the Tulsa race massacre and would they have known about that otherwise? And so to, to have a production like this and say, you got to see

how brutal these white people were. And I started to get really interested once I started seeing the trailers and they're saying, they're using this book and saying like, can you see the wolf? Can you see the wolf? Or something like that, right? And they're really, and then they show these picture of these white guys. And I look at that old picture. I was like, oh yeah, those guys are all bad.

And then to sort of see these characters and what they would do to try and get the land. Because to get the land, you have to engage in complete inhumanity. Again, coming back to that. And I think it's important to have that conversation. And it's tough. It's tough to sort of say, okay, do we have to have a white guy come and tell our story? And do we have to have these prominent white characters in there, especially male characters? And the answer is probably yes, because I don't know if there's a feature film about just Native people, it's going to go direct to, it's a direct

to DVD thing, whatever the equivalent of that is. And so that's for the Indigenous eyes, and we need that. We need those types of movies. But I think we also need some movies that are going to push it into the national conversation as well. Because we have someone, you know, if you look at Lily Gladstone, her performance is out of this world. It's amazing. And to see her walking around with, big-time actors and big-time movie makers is incredible because there's going to be Native people out there saying, oh yeah, I could do that. And then maybe that opens the door for a Native production. And maybe that opens the door for a Native story to hit that level of, you know, and I hate to use those sort of stepping stone type of metaphors.

But that door's not open for us. It just isn't. But it's starting to get open. So we have children's shows like Molly of Denali. And I've been a cultural consultant and a writer on that show since it began almost. And so it's been really amazing that my children could turn on PBS. And there's a lead character who's an Alaska Native girl, and she's got agency, and she's smart, and she's cool, and and she's funny and so we're able to sort of like break some of the stereotypes through the children's programming and then hopefully by the time

those kids are grown up they'll be like what they used to not be like major motion pictures about native people that's crazy yeah you know and so because we go back to like dances with wolves which is groundbreaking yes but it's about two white people who fall in love in Native America. And then we've got Wind River, which is groundbreaking. Yes. It's about two white people who fall in love in Native America. Well, being a background story in your own story. At least two white people didn't fall in love in this movie.

It's like, okay, we just get crumbs. We'll make some fucking damn good pie out of these crumbs and we'll have it for Thanksgiving dinner. But it's a little bit more than like, take what we can get. Because there's a lot of consultation in this film. And what I hope is that people will watch it. Because the danger is that people say, I don't want to watch it because it's just a white guy tells these stories i don't want to watch it because this people there's violence

against native people there and that's triggering and it is like get yourself ready it's also three hours three and a half hours long and figure out like don't drink a whole bunch of water before you go but but also if people don't go then it just allows hollywood But also, if people don't go, then it just allows Hollywood to say, told ya. People don't watch movies about Native people. Yeah, and I also think, you know, again, just speaking for myself, seeing,

in the Black community, we have similar conversations around slave narratives, where people are like, we are always depicted as slaves, which I think is a slight exaggeration, but I hear you. And then there's frustration at that, and that's like, I'm not, to me personally, I'm not ashamed to come from people who were enslaved. I'm not ashamed of our survival. I'm not ashamed of how we were able to take that experience and evolve as a community and survive and thrive and be where we are now.

None of that to me is shameful or something I want to look away from. I am exhausted by slave narratives that focus specifically on like demonic white masters. Specifically, I'm tired of seeing enslaved people depicted only by the grueling work they were forced to endure when we know that we were writing beautiful music, when we know we were dancing and having loving relationships. And there was culture preserved and created during this time. And I think a lot of people, I understand the instinct to be like, I don't want to invest in anything that makes my culture look less than or that doesn't aspire to our best selves. For example, some people had a real problem with like Boys in the Hood when it came out, even though we know that film is a masterpiece. But they were like, you're just showing like young kids doing gang violence. Why would you want to promote that? gang violence why would you want to promote that people are actually living and leading these lives and exploring them and giving them humanity allows you to understand why when you see you know there

was a murder in compton tonight you can't just write it off as like oh that's what happens there they're individual beings and it's important to examine that and i think you know to your point earlier about these horrifying schools the first time i ever saw that depicted in media was in the Netflix Anne of Green Gables series, which I think came out like 2015, if I'm not mistaken. And it was so like it brings you to you because it's like, oh, there's this happy story about this orphan and she finds a good family and it's kind of rough for her. Oh, she made a friend with like this indigenous girl who is also like living and thriving with her family and then in the middle of the last season she's just taken and you're like wait what's happening and you kept like at least i kept expecting like oh there will be a resolution to this like they will win because it's anne of green gables and she's plucky and she

can do it and what i really admired about that show before you know it has false it's not a perfect show but what i admired about that show was its ability to be like, no, it wasn't resolved. And it was just horrible. And her parents had to leave the land so that they could just camp outside of her school in the hopes that they could be close to her and one day find a resolution. And I think when we get visual representation like that, it's like sometimes, you know, people's best access to these stories is through entertainment media. I think there's a lot we can say about that versus the educational system goes and where we should be learning these things. But knowing that, you know, I think getting a variety of stories that explore both the trying times we've had and the weird, awesome, amazing places we are now, I think, I just think it's like vitally important. I just think it's vitally important. Yeah, and I think for a lot of Indigenous people,

and I'm not going to speak for anybody, but sometimes I wonder, are you mad because you're seeing this thing that happened to people? Or are you mad about the movie itself? Because sometimes it's hard to separate that stuff because we don't get our story really told on big screens where there's a whole bunch of commercials about this. There's a whole bunch of press. And I know the writers strike, which I'm glad it happened because there needs to be equity for folks who are working in the movie industry. But it also just

impacted the opening of this film because they couldn't really heavily promote it, and especially actors who were in it. But I think people should engage in it and people should go. But I think also there's movies like Skins and Smoke Signals and Antanarjot, The Fast Runner. And even outside of North America, there's a film called Rabbit Proof Fence. Like if you want to really get the boarding school experience, like watch that movie. It is heartbreaking and incredible. It's about these, these kids who were taken from boarding school and they, they ran away. And it's, it's amazing. It's based on a true story. They have the, you get to see images of these little girls as the elders that they became. And, you know, and when we think

about our elders, when we think about our ability to stand up and speak our language, and we just had a cultural ceremony this weekend, it was wonderful. Like, we can do that stuff because people went to these boarding schools and found a way to be themselves. They found a way to hold on to who they are and what they are. And when we look at some of the things in Killers of the Flower Moon, like there was an incredible amount of indigenous agency in that film, which I think, you know, that's what brought the FBI there. And I think there was a real temptation probably because once the FBI stepped in, I was like, oh, is this going to be about this guy?

And it kind of wasn't. Like it was like still kind of a side character. And, you know, there's certainly things that I would, I would want more out of. Like I just wanted more indigenous depth and character, but there was a lot of depth and there was a lot of character.

And so I think it's, for me, I look at, I'm like, this is a worthwhile thing. And this is a thing that I hope gets people talking and that they think about what happened to these people who did it. What happened to the people who did it? Because even though, you know, the FBI gets involved and there's investigations, like, why'd people get away with things back then and they still do now?

Yeah. Well, I feel like every time you come on, we say that we could keep talking for hours. In this case, we're breaking a record because we only got to the search history. We didn't even get to the overrated or underrated within the first hour. But yeah, I mean, truly until next time, because I feel like we could just keep this conversation going indefinitely. time because I feel like we could just keep this conversation going indefinitely. But yeah, thank you. Thank you for coming on. This has been an amazing conversation. Where can people find you and follow you and hear you and all that good stuff? Yeah, so the Tongue Unbroken does come out. Season two, I'm so excited, is coming out in mid-January. And we've got, I've just been able to really track down some great people and have some amazing conversations with them. And so, like, this is just a taste of some of the stuff that we're doing. We're really trying to, like, just keep it casual and also enjoyable because these conversations are difficult.

But that doesn't mean you can't have fun and still laugh and enjoy life and think about a potentially brighter future. But you can find me on Twitter. What is it? X? Twitter. It's Twitter.

You can find me on Twitter, which is run potentially by a fascist. Twitter until typing Twitter into the search box stops working. And then maybe I'll change what i refer to it as but right it's that i'm not as active on there just because it's such a disappointment that a racist person can just buy the whole thing but you know it's also go america it's what you're all about and um i'm also on facebook and instagram you can find me under my tlingit names which uh

we'll just have to link to. It's Hone or Duane Kaudenuk. And then I would say the piece of media, I don't know if you asked about that, but I know you guys usually do. I do, yeah. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Yeah, there's a comedian, Shang Wang, who has this opening,

I think it's in his comedy act on Netflix, where it's about Costco is bigger than all of us it's so funny like just really going into like you you haven't really given up on life until you walk around in some kirkland pants and he is so it's so hilarious so funny and and you could find it on social media but they they cut all the space out of in between his talking, which kind of drove me a little nuts. Oh, God. Yeah, that YouTube edit? We're not in a hurry. Yeah.

It's like. Have you seen the YouTube edit of Killers of the Flower Moon? It's like 45 minutes. It's just every space. Just all words just scrummed together. I'm not a fan of the YouTube edit. Like, let there be space we need silence i just want to say about the tongue i'm broken i was re-listening to season one this week and one of

the things i love about it is getting to hear you interact with you know other teachers of children and like talk about your experience teaching your own children and children in general and then getting you to getting to hear you interact with your kids there's just like this gentle lovely energy and as i was listening to that my own children like i was just kind of sitting in bed listening to that it was bedtime and my own children just like ran over to me where i was laying in bed and lay on me and started to fart on me while telling me that they were farting on me and that I was their bed. And so it was just a real, it was like listening to this. Oh man, I aspire to like this lovely energy.

And then my kids were like, you know, letting me know that i was their bed and they were free to fart on me whenever they wanted it sounds about right i really love working with teachers because we could joke about all this kind of stuff we're like yeah you know someone put up a meme and they'd say uh native people in public the children are our future native people at home dan these kids are messy. Joelle, thank you so much for joining and co-hosting with me today. Thank you for having me. Where can people find you, follow you, and what is the work of media you've been enjoying? Yeah, y'all know me. I'm Joelle Monique. You can find me all over the internet at Joelle Monique. It's J-O-E-L-l-e-m-o-n-i-q-u-e pieces i've been reading a lot i think i

talked about this last time i was on i've been picking up more books reading a lot listening to a lot of audiobooks arf pong wrote this absolute stunner it's called babble or the necessity of violence which is a fictionalized history of translators at ox, a school she actually attended. I think that's where she got her master's degree. And it's about a lot of things, but essentially a boy is created in China and brought back by a professor who says, hey, you've got just enough language to translate, but I've removed you early enough that you have no connection to your culture. You'll now translate all of your language for me so I can use it as I need to basically invade China. And he has to figure out, he's raised in Europe and England, trying to figure out who he is as an individual. He gets to school and meets a lot of other kids who are similar to him and his world explodes. And yet he's still under the thumb of this horrible professor and it talks about what what is revolution how does it

happen when is violence a necessity and what does that do to the soul and it's so beautiful and difficult but ultimately i think inspiring feels like a weak word but it really set me alight i love that book. I feel like it's one of the books I'm like, I can't wait to reread this. It's too soon. I don't want to burn out on it, but I really,

really enjoy reading it. And our Kwan, I think just hit 30. This is her fourth book. They're all phenomenal. She's an incredible, incredible writer. So if you have time,

if you're into reading Babel or the necessity of violence, I highly recommend it. Yeah. That sounds amazing and intense. It's so good. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. Working media I've been enjoying.

Kim at Kimmy Monty tweeted, the person who named tights really nailed it. Success! You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist we're at the daily zeitgeist on instagram we have a facebook fan page and a website dailyzeitgeist.com where we post our episodes and our footnotes we link off to the information that we talked about in today's

episode as well as a song that we think you might enjoy uh super producer justin is there a song that you think people might enjoy first of all have you listened to the new andre 3000 yes uh that was actually uh one of the songs i was going to recommend yeah yeah so new blue sun just came out on friday it's amazing i know people really wanted a rap album from andre but still do yeah i mean but i love the fact that his take on this is i'm 48 i don't be knowing what to talk about you know and it's just i love that self awareness and a lot of other artists should take note this is a very meditative ethereal song and the title of the track is a mouthful that in honor of honey being here it also posits a linguistic question uh not one you need to answer,

but a question nonetheless. It's called, the slang word pussy rolls off the tongue with far better ease than the proper word vagina. Do you agree? And both the statement and follow-up is maybe something you can ponder as you sit back, relax,

and explore what this damn near 15-minute long song has to offer. Wow. The whole album is incredible by the way me saying i still want to wrap up from doesn't mean that i i don't appreciate this uh as we talked about on yesterday's weekend trending episode it's an incredible work yes and it's exactly what you because you you wouldn't be able to predict what was going to come from him so in that way this is the predictable thing that would come from Andre 3000.

It's like somehow so perfect, unpredictable, exactly right. And exactly what the world needs right now. Yes. It's very calming. If you really need to relax, just please turn this on and turn your brain off. There you go. You can find this song in the footnotes. And Hunay, do you agree?

Yeah. And you can find this song in the footnotes. And Hunay, do you agree? Yeah, well, so the thing at word for vagina is goose. And so sometimes around here, like we got to sort of stop. Kids are playing duck, duck, goose. We got to step in. Oh, you know what? Our kids are going to have a really different interpretation of how this game is working. If someone says, oh, you silly goose. And if we're all over here chuckling, then you know what's going on.

But yeah, it's a nicer term, I think. That's much better. Amazing. Well, we will link off to that song in the footnotes. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is going to do it for us this morning. Back this afternoon to tell you what is trending.

And we will talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game.

Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.