The Daily Zeitgeist - Copaganda: Humanizing The Dehumanizers 03.12.24

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

In episode 1639, Jack and Miles are joined by movement lawyer, political commentator, public defender, and host of Olurinatti, Olayemi Olurin, to discuss… The Social Impact Of Copaganda, The Menu Of Shows Is Staggering, There Are Some Pretty Staggering Myths Buried In Law And Order Specifically, More Than The Cops This Helps Obfuscate The Role Of Prosecutors, Selection Bias, We Never Defunded The Police and more! LISTEN: stayinit by Fred again... & Lil Yachty & OvermonoSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese.

Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have

changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pardenti

and I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation,

then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet and welcome to season 329 episode 2 of Dirt Daily's iGuest Day production of

iHeartRadio and it's always fun to do that in a hotel room. People don't know what the fuck is going on imagine what the fuck the people next door think is happening this is a podcast where we take a deep dive into america's shared consciousness in case you're wondering what the hell is happening and it is tuesday march 12th 2024 that was on me man hey shout out the beginning of march shout out my boys mike and chris they have the same birthday

today also and if it's your birthday it's probably everyone's birthday on every day we record potentially so happy birthday to you if you're born March 12th also it's National Working Moms Day National Baked Scallops Day National Plant a Flower Day and National Girl Scout Day do you have other friends with birthdays around this

time because I always say that the thing that makes me believe that there's something to all the astrology shit is that like my two best friends from growing up chris and jose and then my wife are like born within three days of each other and then there's other people in my life who like had close birthdays close to that time yeah and then like the first four people that started cracked with me were all born like within three days of each other oh i mean i have i mean i got a lot of pisces friends i got some scorpio homies i have some poruses and cancers and cancers in my life just not the astrological sign just toxic people in my life. It's just the worst. Yeah.

And then one just passive aggressive ass Leo. All right. My name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. I tried Kevlar to shield my heart. But in the end, my balls were all that mattered. They had the gall to shoot my balls bulletproof vest usefulness shattered that is courtesy of rezek on the discord in reference to but we were recently talking about how bulletproof vests seems like it doesn't cover up some of the more important parts of the anatomy. You're heading downstairs.

Heading the downstairs. I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray! It's Miles Gray, the Blazer Shogun with no gun, aka, if you have gun problems, I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems, but a gun ain't one. Hit me! Alright, shout out to

Christy Yamaguchi, man, on the Discord, you know, with my father's famous adage, why don't we have a gun in the house? Look, you got a problems, but a gun ain't one. Hit me. All right. Shout out to Christy Yamaguchi-Main on the Discord. You know, with my father's famous adage, why don't we have a gun in the house? Look, you got a gun, you have gun problems. There it is. Not for everybody, but sometimes a good explanation for your kids. Just to kind of let them know. Yamaguchi-Main. Yeah.

And Miles, we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by one of our favorite guests. Finally back in the expert spot fine expert seat a movement lawyer political commentator public defender you've read her work on places like teen vogue essence the nation senior commentary all over the wide internet you can and must subscribe to her youtube channel alura. Please welcome back to the show. It's the brilliant, the talented, Alaymi Alure! Alaymi!

Thank you. I love that. Welcome back. Been too long. Been too long. Listen, y'all make me feel like a star. Thank you. Thank you.

That's what I needed today. I mean, you are a star. I mean, every time there's on-point commentary on certain things in the world, I definitely always check your Twitter and see what you're saying. So it's always nice to see you, you know, and also just to see how many people are they fuck with you. That makes me feel my assistant said to me the last week, he said, Hmm, you know, every time something happens in the subways in New York, you seem to be in high demand. You're high demand. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because when we talked about Governor Hochul's plan to fully militarize the subway system, I caught wind of that from your Twitter.

So, yeah. I mean, obviously, there were news headlines, but, you know, the way I first came into contact with it was your commentary on it, for sure. And I'm happy to hear it. Professionally, Hayden and Hochul and Eric Adams 24-7. Yeah. Yeah. Eric Adams. What is... hating on hokal and eric adams 24 7 yeah yeah what is how has the eric adams administration been uh treating you of late pretty listen there i'm getting ready to write my second expose on eric adams and i thought i had said what i needed to in my first two-hour expose on eric adams but

turns out he can just keep getting worse but it's getting good now because they have a federal investigation against him yeah right the news is getting hot for him i like that yeah i like that amazing so just the gift that keeps on giving it feels like and and taking away in terms of people quality of life but for people you know paying attention just the entertainingly bafflingly bat shit yeah shit yeah all right well we're gonna get to know you a little bit better right now you know later on we're gonna talk about copaganda law and order all the things that you are so brilliant at breaking down for us you know things that i grew up on just that are deep in there unfortunately but we get to that, we do like to ask our guests,

what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? Right now, my Google search history is filled with me searching for all Mary-Kate and Ashley books that I have to buy used because for whatever reason, they're not selling them new anymore.

And you know what's crazy? I keep trying to Google answers like why has no one else explored why Mary-Kate and Ashley don't have those available? They're not selling them new anymore. And you know what's crazy? I keep trying to Google answers. Like, why has no one else explored why Mary-Kate and Ashley don't have those available? Like, you could buy the damn Federalist Papers books that happened before. But I can't get Mary-Kate and Ashley books new? That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm searching.

Were you raised on Mary-Kate and Ashley? Like, are those nostalgic for you? I want you to understand that if Maryary kate nashley was on it i bought it okay i have all them books okay i love you i love them you got the first edition brother for sale listen i had when i i had a bookcase in my room as a kid and it was completely just filled all the books every time there would be like a book sale at my school and you know what i liked it was before the internet was what it was it wasn't like you could just google oh here are all the mary kate nationally books it was just like it would be random new like oh they're on this one it's the adventures of something else i'm getting that i love mary kate nationally i went up for them those were

my favorite two white girls in the world they were in the grade below me in grade school at the same school and they were never at school. But look, one of my point of pride, Mary-Kate, she had her eye on me. You know what I mean? Wow. I love this. Okay. Look at T.

Why were they not at school? They were too busy typing out all those novels? Yeah. I mean, because they were just... It's like in LA, a lot of times you go to school, their kids who just are in the business, they're just fucking working all the time. And then they also just have set teachers.

So like when they even, even when they come to school, they're like, I don't know what the fuck's going on, man. Like I just came here to just like see, just to let y'all know how balling we are. And then we'll maybe see you in like another couple months. Yeah. The brand was real though. You know, the thing that I always heard was that they had like become billionaires by the time I think we were in our early 20s. And it has to be true. The only ethical billionaire.

I definitely gave them a billion dollars. I'm telling you, me alone. But I didn't know the publishing side of their empire. I knew that they had movies. It's such an underrated part of the empire because it was huge. Fuck the movies like the movies they would go make the books of they had had like a little show when they were young called like the adventures america nationally and they turned that into a book bag every time they had and

anytime they did have a show they would turn every episode of their shows into one of those books so it'd be the adventures america and that so listen i grew up in the bahamas so understand if i'm telling you i was giving them all my money in the Bahamas and there were a community of other little girls giving them all their money in the Bahamas. Around the globe. Around the globe. They had it in the bag. I had them all, every series. They had me locked in until they were like 19 and they just decided they didn't want

to run an empire no more. Right. They were like, this is boring. I'm bored with this. What was your introduction to them? Like in the Bahamas? I'm curious. Was it full house or after that? No. this what was your introduction to them like in the bahamas i'm curious like did it was it

full house or after that no my mommy so my household my daddy is nigerian and my mommy is his partner so there was no fun and joy in my household all i was allowed all i was allowed to do was school and read and so the only thing my mommy would buy she'd never buy like video games or let me go do anything but she would spend a bag in the bookstore so i'd go in the bookstore sit on the floor and just pick things and i liked you know it was appeals marketed to you as a girl so i think i got the first one and then i got all of them all those and the lemony snickets the series of unfortunate events i had it all yeah what do you have like do you have like a book you're chasing right now like a grail mary kate and ashley book you're like man i just gotta get my hands on this i have like a hundred mary kate and ashley use books sitting

in my amazon cart right now it's ridiculous like i'm like i've told myself i told my boyfriend i'm buying them for our future children as the investment that's why i'm justifying it i will be so upset if my children tell me they don't like it. Right. And it's going to rise up like the after the apocalypse. Like it's going to be the book of Eli type thing that everybody like uses as the gospel. I'm waiting for them to make a bounce back. I don't know. I want them to sell new books. But Mary Kay and Ashley, like I don't even think there's a place to put pressure on them.

They just off the grid somewhere. They just quit us. They were like, yeah, we could continue to like build an empire and at this point be challenging bezos's fortune but we're just like it's boring to us we're gonna go and that's the thing right because that's obviously an executive choice because it's one thing if they don't make new things but they won't even sell the old things like how is a book just out every book y'all have hundreds of books in there all out of print. Why are you doing this? Who is this for?

Is one of them still with the brother of Jacques Chirac? I have no idea. I remember one of them was with the old guy. I respect their privacy. Mary Kate was with the old guy, but I don't remember what came of that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Oh, no, it's Nicolas Sarkozy's brother.

That's who it was. And I was like, what French president was it? Yeah, the brother of Nicolas Sarkozy. Yeah, it's money. sarkozy's brother that's who it was and i was like what french president was it yeah the brother of nicholas sarkozy that's money i had yeah i feel like those books like i read every hardy boys book that came out i read like the red wall series of books and i feel like if i went back and revisited them and read them now i'd be like, this is like what my entire imagination is built out of. It's like the fabric of these. And Hardy Boys, talk about fucking propaganda. My mommy loved stuff. My mommy loved the Hardy Boys.

My mommy is also a propaganda establishment Democrat. Nancy Pelosi loves us. Absolutely. I feel like their story was that their dad was a cop, and then they were like, but that's not enough cop for one family and so they kind of like moonlit as they were like high school students by day and then crime fighters by night yeah riddled in propaganda every boy's dream i i love that i find out childhood me didn't like propaganda before she knew it was propaganda because my mommy loved those books she bought me that and nancy drew the collections and i wasn't fucking with it something about me knew the ops was around right but mary-kate and ashley solved mysteries

didn't they yeah but with like a magnifying glass kind of shit you know not like yo get your fucking ass against the car and they started moving with that times they would make little like new, new collections would come out as they ate. So they had the, they had the American Ashley adventures, American Ashley. Then they had the starring in series.

Then they had the so little time. And then they had the, my sweet 16th. You see, I know too much. I felt, I felt my son. Hey man, if you have any extra copies laying around,

hit up a limey, you know, they will go, they will be appreciated. I would love that. What's something you think is underrated? What is underrated? Probably Mary-Kate and Ashley.

But let me see. What else? Chance the Rapper. I'm going to say Chance the Rapper. People be going too hard on my guy after that last album. It's really ridiculous. I'm like, you can give people back-to-back hits, hits, projects you did all by yourself. They don't like like one album and now they're talking crazy on your name so i love my wife one yeah the last album was the i love my wife one and god forbid this man

love his wife yeah right how much that album disintegrated everything yeah i loved that like acid rap i was obsessed with the next album coloring book i was like yeah like this is this is really good and then one bad album and we were off as us and just disrespecting and you know what's crazy is people like people so love to blame women because they love to blame his wife like he wasn't with that woman the whole time right for all the other albums they had a child and everything she's married and suddenly she's to blame for the artistic direction yeah i forget which documentary it was but kendrick was talking about how he was talking to

like one of the like recording industry gurus i don't think it was rick rubin i think it was what's the what's the guy who made a made beats with dre the uh and like has a whole he was like the defiant ones what's that guy oh jimmy jimmy ivy jimmy jimmy ivy yeah yeah yeah he like told kendrick was like working on damn and jimmy ivy was like all right so the third album is the most important one because if you just like absolutely nail this one like you can do no wrong you have like a trilogy and that like at the time seemed like bullshit to me i was like yeah just like so your advice is to make the album good like yeah no shit man right of course that's the advice but but chance really proves like that

third album if you fumble the third album like people are gonna fucking turn on you in a way that you're right is completely unfair like you know what it is it's not that you can't fumble the third album it's that you can't fumble the last thing you've done right people you're only as good to people as whatever your last project is and it's just because that's his last project he hasn't come up with anything else because let him come up with another good album they'll just stop talking about that album that's that's all because kanye done put out all kinds of garbage over the last however many years and people still they're like graduation checking for my beautiful dark twisted fantasy i'm like oh he ain't done that in a while babes

but he did nail those first three according to a lot of people i know miles yeah maybe that's why at the time they didn't believe that either remember how they was carrying on about 808s yeah oh yeah they're hating on 808s exactly that's me do i hate 808s did you hate 808s yeah yeah someone that was just like such a electro music like kind of hip stuff like so into music i'm, this is an old style, bro. That's been going around on the blogs already for like two years. He's trying to act like he came up with it. And I was just being,

the minute I had 808s, I would have bought it. It was a banger. I knew he had it when he, when he got, I actually had my, my, um,

my high school boyfriend 808s is what, um, inspired him to break up with me or be done with my shit. He called me like, he called me in the, he said it like in the dead of night and was like i was sitting up listening to heartless by kanye and and i decided i wasn't just gonna twiddle my thumbs and deal just stuff no more wow okay listen many artists have inspired a man to decide to rise up against me to make the wrong decision yeah yeah art inspires

and sometimes it inspires the wrong you have chosen unwisely sir that's wild what uh what's something you think is overrated mr and mrs smith the new one with charlotte scambino and i hated it it was fucking ass it was so bad wow i you know you know it's crazy all right they were already hating on it beforehand like before it ever came out twitter was hating on it because they were like these are this is not twitter not me not me twitter said twitter said that these are ugly people and the whole yeah right so that's why they was hating so then when it came out and then people like oh it was actually really good i'm thinking oh look oh, look at what it done been. Hey, let me go watch this. It was a hot sack of shit, but for entirely different reasons.

Like, it wasn't. It was not because of what these people look like. The whole, what kind of spot? What is this foolishness? This is stupid. They running through New York City. They supposed to be in New York City. Bold face running from explosions. they on video kidnapping this was

the stupidest i was like is it a spoof if it's a spoof then tell me it's a spoof and then they have him just kind of like i was like so no one's gonna think childish gambino's character is like pressuring like pushing himself on this woman he's like we have a job and in our job we're supposed to be fake married so you should fuck me for real. You should do that. I'm going to keep. And then they had them like have this weird like experience where this woman was not interested in him. As far as I the actress to me was given lesbian.

I was waiting for her to tell him that she's not with it. Like I thought that's where they were going with it. Right. No. Suddenly they have where this woman has been totally disinterested with this weirdo who keeps trying to fuck her because they have a job they supposed to be trying to be spies they have serious shit to do life-threatening situations and all he could think about is how to fuck the woman in the crib and then when they have some weird mission where this guy like kind of puts them like

basically trying to force them to sexually interact now suddenly because they were forced on a mission forced to engage in sexual contact now she wants to fucking for real this is sick fucking show i couldn't believe you wrote this you wrote this like and don't don't get me started then at one point in time he said what was it he said childish camino was using av wrong and it really blew me it was one it was one particular time me and my boyfriend paused the TV like child I see I would understand if white people wrote this script but you're

responsible so what is happening here childish what is going on in the show yeah yeah what was it what would he say what did he say I have to you know what it's in my group chat as we continue I will find it in the group chat because me and my boyfriend texted our friend nigel who made us watch it to curse him

out um so i'm gonna find it i liked it but the point about them not being able to get away with what they got away like all the spy stuff seemed a little like under yeah like it was a spoof and then it ultimately kind of ends with that but i thought they nailed like the weirdness of in social interactions well and i thought they were both good actors personally they nailed breaking up i guess yeah right yeah like day-to-day of like a bad relationship of breaking up but all the rest of it none of this shit made no sense and then don't get me started on how every mission right every mission where they had a white person to to deal with to rescue to involve with whether criminal or not their job

was to protect them right every every single one the mission was don't kill them the minute we see a group of black guys sitting at the table no crime to be seen just chatting with him she fucking blows all their brains out ain't that some shit she has a whole thing about her she's upset because he there being a misogynist or whatever chopping it up with the black guys you just murdered a fucking room full of negroes but y'all was protecting the white guys every other episode me and my boyfriend was outraged because i was like pause get this shit off the airwaves yeah i think it's also like because of the genre mashup it's like people either looked at it through a lens of being like a spy thing which it wasn't or like a rom-com which it or romantic sort of a

metaphor for like a relationship but like the mapping of the two like definitely two like towards the end we're like can you get away with like setting off grenades at the fucking whitney and then uh get in a full-on knife fight at the high line and then be able to like prance your way home and then you're like what sort of legal reality are we in just out like this just like this yeah it's visible i'm just like y'all they didn't get captured on any ring cameras after the first episode when they like blew up that house and where was that like long island also what would and where they were just running through the streets of brooklyn no it was queens it was queens just openly openly running but then when they had them like in the

middle of fucking union square so you this one don't make no sense so they're supposed to be spies off the grid and nobody's supposed to ever see or know them again you give them different names but they live right there in the middle of the city to be seen right and this man childish can be no so it was to be off the grid hiding it's just talk chatting it up with his old fuck butt the fuck but he's in the market square and no it will yeah what is this foolishness foolishness amazing all right we we've had that as an underrated before. Now we got the counterpoint. Someone said it was underrated?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think people, a lot of people like that show. And they're wrong for that. I feel like there aren't enough people talking about it. Exactly. Underrated is crazy. We're going to take a quick break.

And then we're going to come back and talk about more movies and shows that are specifically giving us the wrong idea about how the criminal justice system works in the United States. We'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high-control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts,

the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed?

Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote, what is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career

without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out?

I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing they're just dreams dream sequence is a new horror thriller from blumhouse television iheart radio and realm listen to dream sequence on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. And I mean, we've talked about copaganda. It's like describing water to a fish a little bit in the United States, especially if you grew up in like the 80s and 90s just so many tv shows so many movies are fucking cop again like the cop like it is like a default that oh yeah well the protagonist of this is going to be a cop but miles you found a study from 2020 there's a lot of

analysis because you know i think in 2020 is when people started being like wait what the what the fuck are our shows saying about the police and at that time you know the study showed that like almost nearly 20 of scripted tv was about cops and that didn't even include shit like live pd or cops and not like the reality into the spectrum and then another subsequent study took like studied nine of these scripted police shows. They found, wow, this and this will blow you away. Those writers rooms, zero black people, showrunners, zero black showrunners. And the kinds of people that were in those writers room were like posting shit on Twitter about lighting up protesters. And then even Dick Wolf or I think it was Dick Wolf had to be like, hey, man, I'm sorry, bro. You're going to have to you're going to have to fucking bounce on this show because you're kind of too out there with your opinion about how you see people in the streets.

But hey, man, thank you so much for your work completely obscuring what police do in our society. So, yeah, I mean, like you just the the the menu of shows is staggering. Like the number of ways you can sort of interact or intersect with some kind of narrative where it's like and the police, you know, they're just complicated folks doing their best. best you know so let's not go too hard on them let's not go too hard yeah and it don't even be just a police show that police shows to me the ones that are more blatantly obvious like this is a police show are actually easier to deal with because at least i don't have to try to convince you why that's propaganda you could see that but it's it's it's baked into all the other things like i was watching the chippendale, the Chippendale Rescue Rangers movie, which if you, first of all,

I never even really dawned on me the Chippendales themselves, right? Like they're little police of their woodland world. But in the Chippendale live action movie, the whole thing is that they're working with, they're taking on the mission for the police because the police are being held up by all these fourth amendment protections.

They're like, oh, the police can't do the job. So the police go to the chipmunks to have the chipmunks do it because all of these fucking constitutional protections and rights you're supposed to have are in the way that's the whole i'm like sitting there watching it like ain't that part of bitch look at this or i was watching the one the new one the live action go watch it crazy. Yeah, that's what happens in the live action. Or even if you look at, me and my boyfriend talk about this a lot because he loves Spider-Man and the Spider-Verse.

And I went and watched the second one and I went with my friend Alex, LOL overruled on TikTok, who's also a PD. And we were just both like, what is this? So Spider-Man is like, they have it specifically, Spider-Man would otherwise string it all over the place but suddenly he needs to take the subway

just so he could stop in you can see the subway station stops for which areas in brooklyn which black neighbors they were choosing and just having him fight crime there and then leave go back and i'm like look at this shit look Look at it. Look at it. That's the second one, the Tom Holland? The second Tom Holland one? No, the Spider-Verse. No, with Black Spider-Man. Oh, shit. Oh, that's where they get that cop again. The Sony. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And his dad's a cop. Relentless NYPD promo. The amount of NYPD cars in that Spider-Ver verse is crazy yeah yeah i was watching zootopia with my kids recently like that is wild copaganda just yeah like the protagonist just all she wants to do for her whole life is be a cop even though people don't think she can be because she's too small and then she yeah i mean it's just like every 80s crime movie like partners with like a wily criminal and then they like kind of you know figure shit out but

like zootopia i wouldn't have even really thought about it that much until you watch it paw patrol we've talked about on the show absolutely copaganda the worst those those to me those kinds of shows and stuff are the worst because especially when people like the character like people think it's not copaganda if they like a character or something or if they if they like it right that's the thing with spider-man i'm like that's what makes it bad like all the other things bad copaganda is that it's effective that all the other things you like about it this animation is amazing that they gave you a black kid uh you know it's not lost upon me that they gave you a black spider-man and they said his dad his daddy's gonna be nybd his best friend's daddy gonna be

nybd we're gonna have him like that's what it is and so yeah those to me are more harmful than even the cop shows it's when you think you're not watching propaganda because at least you could go into a cop show with your like antennas up but if you think you're gonna go watch a cartoon you're gonna go watch lucifer and all these things and they find a way to be cops who's even charmed why are the witches why are fucking witches and wizards working with the police why do they need the police assistance they are working with the police they had they had uh what's her name uh uh prue was in a relationship with a cop wow you know just for her safety i guess or not safety it's very hard to tell the wild thing too about

miles morales that character his dad's name is jefferson davis you're like the president of the confederacy it's just a coincidence man his dad happens to be jefferson davis like let's just also throw that in there for our history buffs but like i think also too like i think about like new york undercover i think that's one of dick wolf's most underrated contributions to copaganda like the and for the entire genre because he took two detectives of color and put it's like a for the hip-hop generation look at this we got we got the we got like a latino detective a black detective and we'll even cast rappers in the show you know and i remember worst kind of cop again that disarm that was so disarming for me because i was like oh shit like this rapper's in there okay cool

this is cool oh what are they trying to do you know what's you know because like now kids that were like raised on here in nwa and fuck the police or public enemy are like well you know detective williams and detective torres like they are right though yeah right that's how it works in real life right like that media media is replicating a strategy that they use in our politics in real life that's why eric adams is a cop right the mayor of new york city is a cop the biggest cop the lover of nypd but that's what makes him so dangerous is because they're able to advertise him he calls himself remember he calls himself the hip-hop mayor he brings a bunch of rappers around even though he actively criminalizes hip-hop music like declared a war uh declare war

on drill music and rap music like days after he took office but people aren't that's not what they're hearing what they're getting presented to them is a black guy putting on earrings telling them you know yeah and that's why it's bad right and he's like i'm at the after parties you know what i mean you see me in the background celebrating the launch of this new chase credit card and you're like 100 because it allows people it affords people a protection right because then people get to say oh it can't be racist or it can't be problematic or whatever has to because we have this diverse this marginalized person as as the avatar for it when in reality that's the whole thing with systemic systemic like an institution once you put they you diversify a systemically racist

institution what happens is those diverse members have to go even harder about punishing their own people to prove themselves to that system. And then, ah. rappers in his show ice tea who was like when i was a kid was at the center of a controversy about like having a song about killing cops and then the thing he's mainly known for now is playing a cop on tv and his politics have moved that way too right but like yeah it's just capitalism is so insidious like that you know we talk about capitalism being the singularity that everybody was afraid of, where it's like it gets smarter and more advanced than any single human mind can conceive of. okay, so how are we going to deal with this swelling from actual people who are struggling, who don't have enough to eat, and who are living victimized by police, and they're creating this music that really connects with people.

The idea of taking them and putting them in the most powerful copaganda is so insidious, not it's not a thing that like any one mastermind had to come up with it's just like the forces of capitalism and the media just like kind of put that shit together you know exactly and it's funny you should bring up ice tea because it was ice tea that actually declared eric adams the hip-hop mayor of new york city holy shit i mean it's the very first episode on my show on my youtube i think a lot of people actually declared Eric Adams the hip-hop mayor of New York City. Holy shit. It's the very first episode on my show, on my YouTube.

I think a lot of people, like as we've talked about on the show, we've had you on, we've had Alec Karrickas-Hannis on and talking about these issues. And I think a lot of people are pretty well, like they're able to recognize like the cop of the copaganda element pretty well. But another thing that I hear you talk about and many others is it's not just the copaganda element pretty well but another thing that i hear you talk about in many others is not it's not just the cop part it's also the law propaganda as well yeah like copaganda isn't just about when people hear it they think of it as just police but it's what it is copaganda refers to any way like the media tries to feed you or indoctrinate you into supporting policing or or

prisons and policing that's what it is anything that essentially essentially reiterates a cop's narrative what a cop would want you to think about of a situation so it's like they won't people will say they're like you'll tell them law and order is kind of propaganda and they'll act like it's not because it shows stabler doing legal things and it's like that's the fucking point you love stabler enjoy you you spit it gives it feeds you a show where you love him. You watch him. You recognize why this character does this

and you see it as necessary or you come to see it as normal. There's a reason why if you watch shows all the time, and Law & Order is, the influence cannot be understated. But so if you take a Law & Order, if you watch for years, it become a normal part of policing that the police you love who you believe are just and are trying

they want to do the right thing and their intentions are so good and you watch them regularly be aggressive or beat up people is a reason why police brutality is the narrative police brutality is only ever when someone dies but never just a regular aggression and abuse that we see as a regular part of policing no one thinks anything about you you see police roughing people up and you don't think of that as brutality or illicit. You think of that as that's policing and that's normal to you. Right. Yeah. Can you talk just a little bit too, because I think the one part that I wasn't always wrapping my head around was how like the prosecution element of it works, because while the police are the people on the street,

the this harmful system continues through the actual like judicial system and things like that and i think that's another part that like when you watch like law and order you're like oh okay so like they get mad when like they take a plea deal they're like oh he got away because like he pled out it's like oh it's a loophole that these people are are like uh you know being able to abuse or whatever but meanwhile prosecutors love plea deals more than anybody else like they're the ones like they they want plea deal they're the ones they weaponize plea deals and cash bail in order to get convictions that they otherwise wouldn't get they're the ones that do that so whatever what often happens in the criminal system is police someone someone will be

arrested take take for example like a homeless person or someone with mental health issues who has a long rap sheet because that's what the media likes to sensationalize what happens how they end up with that long rap sheet is say they'll they'll arrest somebody for something something petty that shouldn't even be criminal or whatever they'll arrest a homeless person because they can and then what will happen even though this case would if this if this were a case against me or you the case would end up being thrown out or resolved some other way it would not end in a criminal conviction under any circumstances but what they'll say to the homeless person or the person with mental health issues or someone who they know don't have any resources they'll say

plea to the charge you can plead to the charge and be released now or we'll set cash bail on you and you have to go to rikers while this case is open you know so someone wanting to go to rikers for every other time they will plead to the charge So they'll take the and then that keeps happening. And now they have this long criminal sheet that could be weaponized against them. But what happens with propaganda when it comes to prosecutors is, first of all, a thing America loves to do in general is America likes to discard parts so it can preserve the whole. It will criticize. America will allow you to criticize police or it will feed you a narrative about private prisons so that you don't criticize prisons in general overall or you don't criticize the criminal system overall so police are who the narrative gets rested on you know they never let it get past police so people go police are bad police do this police do these things but they never recognize that it's the

prosecutors who have to carry that out right right so and also how propaganda i think really is really really probably one of the most harmful things it does is it encourages people to talk to the police throughout across all mediums of propaganda, all the different top shows or shows that are not even about cops. And they just happen to have that kind of scene. They always have where people are faced with this dilemma of talking to the police, talking to the police. They're negotiating with the police about their case. In real life, the police don't have shit to do but your case police make the arrest and then you're dealing with a prosecutor in a criminal system the police will just be witnesses at most in the case they have nothing to do with what would deal you end up with or what you even get charged with but the shows are always like hey man you talk to me you know you come you come clean to me i'll make sure i'll make sure this isn't messy for you just don't ask for a lawyer and you'll

good advice right well and also you're also fed this thing too like if you watch shows like Dateline and stuff that are about like you know like murder cases and things like that the detectives will always be like the second they asked for a lawyer I knew they were guilty you know what I mean and it also feeds this thing to sort of like, you know, create the subtext that like actually exercising your rights makes you more suspicious. And maybe you are actually because why would all the or all the true crime? You know what I think is so funny? Every for every true crime you go and watch is about some case where the police fail to do shit. Right.

Like every single one. And that's the never the subject yes but they will somehow and what is very obviously policing failure the whole thing is about policing failure the argument will be how the police like they were their arms were tied by some bullshit that their arms were not tied by by oh they didn't have this they didn't have that and it will become this like indictment of of of the defense or people having rights or blah blah blah rather than the fact that the fucking police don't do shit right yeah yeah the the law and order thing is so insidious like you just you don't get to follow a single criminal prosecution anywhere else like from arrest through trial and like it

really feels like you know the thing we know about ho about Hollywood is like they they like an underdog story. There's this massive like machine that is swallowing up innocent people and just making them disappear from their everyday lives. And we never really see like how that machine actually works it's just yeah a big a big aspect of propaganda that doesn't get talked about in all these shows is the investigation because in real life there is none like there is none there is no fucking investigation all these shows show you police just fucking beating their heads in trying to get to the bottom of something police don't solve no fucking crime what happens in real life is someone someone accuses something of something the police arrest them and that's the and what they knew at arraignments is the case like with the information you got like they don't go trying to figure something out no one is on a quest to get to the bottom of it also another thing propaganda does is it makes defense it reinforces this idea

that the only people who are deserving of representation or can be victims in a criminal system or who are innocent or what have you, right? Because they'll always have defense attorneys. They'll paint defense attorneys as these people who believe their clients are innocent or who are either scum who know that they're representing these bad, terrible, evil people they're getting out and they're rich for doing it, or they're naive and think that they're innocent and they're on a quest to find out that their client is innocent to confirm that the client is innocent or otherwise they can represent them. I just watched a Tyler Perry movie just the other night where he had it where this defense attorney is supposed to be representing this guy accused of murder. And all she's spending her time trying to do is trying to undermine the story, trying to find out whether or not he's innocent.

And then once she thinks he's guilty she quits what the fuck that don't have nothing to do with the price of tea in china like you have to represent him like what are we what are we doing like that that has nothing to do with nothing but that's how it paints it to you so the defense are automatically made out to be bad people on the side of bad or otherwise if they weren't on the side of bad if they would give these were people who deserve they would be washing their hands in this case or they would what they love to do in copaganda is have a defense attorney quit and become a prosecutor right they love that i saw the light i actually saw the light after this they did that in lucifer they actually had in lucifer a show about the devil about satan satan they have satan himself come to earth and the only way for satan to reconcile

himself with god is to work with lapd and the worst person he comes in contact with they say is the defense attorney who in order for her to make it to heaven she had to become a prosecutor is that real that that's what the fuck happened in that show wow imagine you're me thinking you're gonna go and watch a nice wholesome show about the devil and you get nothing but propaganda wow even here it's like well why are the lapd the arbiters of who gets into okay whatever and all the fucking lapd in the show are corrupt they have like like corrupt but somehow that's not the problem they They had like the wife of the main cop that he works with, the husband of the main cop that he works with. Ex-husband is a whole crooked cop doing all kind of shit.

And they have his real moral dilemma to be like when he's dating the prosecutor. I say ain't this about a bitch. Right. It's just wild. Like how the effects of the, you know know obviously copaganda helps is like pr for the legal system and police and things like that and helps support like the biggest myths we have like so you know it's completely just deads our ability to think critically because if you go like like i wonder man are police are they a threat to marginalized communities you're like no no no man because i've seen tv and most of them are just good and you know some of them are just going through stuff like the characters on the shows or what if can they do like more with less

money? It's like, well, no, absolutely not, because they're the only thing that keeps us in our society from fully devolving into the purge. And then on the other side, too, it completely we have no idea actually how the legal system works. So if you actually begin to interact with it, you're like, well, based on what I've seen, I don't I don't know if I have rights or maybe I should talk to the police or do I go to trial because you don't you also don't see the part about how coercive like the whole plea deal thing is in real life where they're like hey man if you actually look if you go to trial like you're looking at 25 to life but or they make it feel like that's what good aggressive policing is right like when stabler and these people are

blowing down on these people and being real aggressive and confrontational and see those on the shows they act like that's what's needed that's that's what tough on crime is right like when stabler and these people are blowing down on these people and being real aggressive and confrontational and see those on the shows they act like that's what's needed that's that's what tough on crime is right like tough on crime as a whole concept law and order which republicans speak all the time law and order is an actual term they use 24 7 so it's like a coincidence like what law and order is and what that is like it's it's a direct correlation yeah and just going back to the true crime point like we find you find out these staggering lapses and police work like we talked about the that serial killer in

Long Island who was on the loose for like a decade and they had a description of his like extremely rare car from like one of his first crimes and it was like he lived like blocks away from it and they like knew this all the time they just like didn't chase it down like it's just they

don't because it was a wild yeah they don't give a fuck they don't like they literally don't give a fuck like it's funny like people who so believe in policing and believe police solve crime don't be the people who have experienced having to try to you ask the police to solve a fucking crime like you've obviously never called the police if you believe that they solve shit like you know what happened so when i went out like a year ago my tv got stolen right i ordered a new tv and i left it in the hallway right and i left it in the hallway because i was like oh my guys coming and mounted in the morning. I don't feel like carrying it up the stairs. Wrong decision. The minute I left to go to the gym,

clearly some girl who lived in my building told her boyfriend to come jack this TV. It's very clear to me that this was what was happening. And I know this because I have proof. Now, anyhow, I'm not the ops and I'm a defense attorney. So I have no interest, whatever. You lost your TV. Like they took the TV, Amazon replaced that for me.

I have no interest in getting, I don't care nothing about nothing. But what i think is interesting is that even if i did want them to go to jail let me tell you how the police don't give a fuck about nothing right because amazon i go to amazon to put in that i need a new tv because my tv was jacked amazon goes oh you'd have to you have watch how the police state works right amazon goes you have to file a police report in order to get the steve to for us to give you a replacement right so you gotta call the police my landlord i tell my landlord my tv was stolen my landlord goes and gets the security footage and shows me the guy stealing my tv like oh seamless

too it was excellent i couldn't even i was excellent it was very clear they had their eyes on that tv all day the The minute I left that building, someone texted them. They came in with their face mask, COVID protection. They came in with their face mask and they literally, they picked up the TV like, walk right out the door.

You can see them. You can fully see the people. The police ain't even asked. They don't give a fuck. They were like, they know I have a video. They were like, yeah, so anyway,

that's what you need, right? Something didn't ask, didn't get the video. They were like, we'll write know i have a video they were like yeah so anyway that's what you need write something didn't ask then didn't get the video they were like we'll write that you had a video right didn't look at it didn't look at it didn't ask for it to be sent nothing the other day there were two little girls i was walking in my neighborhood and there were two little girls running a seven-year-old and a four-year-old running through the street and i'm like what the fuck where are their parents and stuff so and then i see them run to this white lady and me and this white lady end up going on and spending the quest the rest of the evening trying to find where these little girls came from right one is seven one is four the seven-year-old's badass was in on it the seven-year-old snuck them out of the like when

when when the the people at the daycare and i'd figured her out at the daycare turned their back she took the little four-year-old she went running she want to go to her little friend's house and she don't know where she's going she is seven but she's not trying to go back so she won't help us so she's like actively leading us in the wrong direction spent hours the little four-year-olds who did it anyway when i finally get these little girls back to back to the uh um the house um as the police are coming outside to us there have been police inside the house just looking at these people for hours, like,

I don't know where the kids is, or whatever. Hadn't gone searching around the neighborhood, nothing, right? I returned the kids. They did not, even, they didn't take my name, they didn't talk to me, they didn't make not a statement, not a check. But how the fuck do they know? I didn't snap, I didn't, like, take those little girls,

they didn't know that anywhere they'd come from, if happened to them how do you know they don't know that but they ain't checked because they ain't shit yeah yeah it could be a lot of work if we have to look into this so i'm just gonna say yeah all right cool thanks uh literally i promise you literally i had to like volunteer like like trying to tell them like hey this is what happened this is where this one was that i did not give a damn they were just looking they'd been in the house for hours just looking at their mother's cry like just like this they weren't even like outside like they weren't patrolling the neighborhood or anything they were just more of them coming just looking at the house like i don't know where the kids are right also you got some more of this food yeah like we were walking around the same

neighborhood in broad daylight till they fall in. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and talk about some more of how this shit works. We'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes! Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Santer. The only difference

between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you.

I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110. 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up?

Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago.

We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. And one thing that we like to talk about on the show is just like

selection bias like where where you just see when they suddenly start reporting every instance of shoplifting even though shoplifting is like going down broadly across the country it's going to seem to people like oh my god yeah poor people are out of control they and you know it's funny that was all debunked like they spent all the 2020 and 2021 doing all of that all the horizon shoplifting rise and shoplifting and when they finally put out all their articles oh because like i think it was walgreens that admitted that they had overblown these figures and all this different stuff but even regardless not only is it a lie like a lot of like this copaganda is just lying it's just literally lying to create mass hysteria so people feel like there's a lot of crime so people feel unsafe regardless of what the actuality is but even if it wasn't let's say it wasn't let's say there was

a bunch of people shoplifting how what let's ask why like we're in a global pandemic there was a fucking pandemic people lost their jobs places closed down all this and the next thing america most americans are actually that are in debt are in medical debt in this country so imagine a global pandemic combined with a country of people who don't have health care and are in medical debt and losing their job might there be a reason they would shoplift right right yeah yeah no no we don't survival crime that look no no no these people are out of control and that's why look we need the police need tank money they need they need drones they need robot dogs and they need robots in the national guard in the subways right exactly yeah but and in america obviously property crime

you you want to see like what that things aren't adding up in the american consciousness like the way that they americans respond to property crime as opposed to you know physical endangerment of people or physical harm to people is you know it's i think there's like a dissonance where the american mind conflates spiritual value for people having more stuff and so like that you know shoplifting specifically gets at that and like causes them to like short wire you know it's this idea that the haves like that they have an idea about the haves and the haves nots and it's that the haves deserve to have they have because it's what they're deserving and the have nots don't deserve and that's why i don't have it

so who the fuck are these undeserving have nots to take my hard-earned deserve shit which is usually shit that they do not have because it's usually the have-nots like loudly defending the haves because they believe that they could one day have and they would they rather relate to the potential of being the haves than their reality which is that they're the have-nots is rough yeah the other place we see selection bias is just like you know well with scripted tv like we're only seeing even though it's much more common for underprivileged people to be kind of pulled into this massive machine and like just unfairly removed from their lives, from the lives of their loved ones, a true underdog tale that is supposedly what like TV and movies like that. We,

we don't get those stories. We just get stories of. Yeah. Miles, like you said, the police are humanized. Like if they if they fuck up, it's because they're having a bad day. That's who we learn to make excuses for. There's never one where it's like, oh, I could I could understand why this person who is completely marginalized by society has like has a different set of financial recourses available to them. different set of financial recourse is available to them than other people it's more like and even and even when they choose to try to highlight it a kind of crimes right like think about it the most popular law and order is law and order s for you like there's a reason for that right like sexually sexually heinous crimes anybody who's ever been the victim of sexual any kind of sexual crime would be the first person to tell you that that's the that's the thing the criminal system gives the least of a fuck about that's the first thing the police are going to tell you to get out their face for it they don't probably like those are are are widely

under under prosecuted under dealt with all these different things by comparison to other things and they make up the minority of what's in the criminal system you could represent a thousand people and never have a sex crime but you wouldn't know that if you have law and order svu and all these kinds of shows law and order wouldn't be so popular if their every episode was based on what is the everyday case in the criminal system. If it was just an episode like some kid was yelling at his mom and his mom called the police

for the police to talk to him and they arrested him instead and issued an order of protection. Now they're in court. Or some family was fighting or some neighbor or you banged on your neighbor's door and now they call the police

and they charge you with criminal mischief. Like that's the kind of thing that's actually happening every day in New York's legal system. And I think that's the thing that drives my gear about law and order in specific is i work in new york so i'm like i know this is very specific this is not my condo i live and work in this city as like as a criminal dirty that's not what's in the system at all and from either level like i when i was in law school i interned at the da's office just to fucking see just to confirm what I already know.

So I'm like, you ain't gonna tell me no different. Right. And it's interesting, too, because like, yeah, you're not going to see in these shows and they're gonna be like, hey, you know, actually felony crimes down. And it's been down on a continuum. But it's like to your point, but misdemeanors have gone way up. And is that like just sort of a way like is that just sort of a response in for like from policing to be like well people gotta like we need to touch more people so i guess the vast majority of what's in the criminal system are misdemeanors and like traffic offenses and non-violent you know infractions and things like that that's what that's what is the majority of

what's in the system in the first place they're not the majority things aren't felonies and even if you look at a place like new york city what are felonies, because which is way less than everything else, it's a very tiny portion. Most of those don't plead out or get resolved as felonies. So that's it's literally the least violent crime and felonies make up the least portion of crime. But you would not know that if you let the media tell it. Right. Right. Yeah. Like you'd think that's all that's happening all the time for sure. Yeah. Yeah. The it's the selection. But like, it's not that they're making up crimes that don't happen. They're just showing you this most violent ones and making it seem like that is all. You know, they don't they don't have to lie. They just have to zoom in on a very rare thing and make it seem like, oh, this shit happens all the time. And they build a world

where everybody's scared and willing to give money, unlimited money, to the police. What you see most in the criminal system are everyday situations, either being made criminal, either by the people themselves, by mistake, or the criminal system getting involved. But what often, what I see most of the time are people having disputes with one another. Like they fight with their roommate. They don't like their roommate or whatever. So they decide to get into a curse out with their roommate. They decide to call the police on their roommate

and not a roommate arrest somebody. And now there's order of protections and they in a hole behind. Or it's usually things like that. It's just like interactions between people. They got into it in the street or whatever have you, or someone's arguing and the police hear it. So come and they arrest them or well just things like that but it's not these sensational your average case is just not something sensational at all it just

isn't and even a lot of the times too what doesn't get talked about the police and propaganda weaponizes victims victim stories without ever wanting to actually hear from victims because most of the people that you deal with in the criminal system do not want this resolved that way the ones that are the victims or the complainants are not trying to proceed with the case and when i when i worked at the i worked i interned for the da's office in law school what they would do and specifically in the db unit it would be a lot of they would charge people and the complainant who is who is the complainant or the victim in the case is actively there like i don't want this case i don't want a criminal case and a lot of the times the gay would be like this is usually somebody they have a relationship with it's in dv they'd be like i want them to get

counseling or i want them to get therapy i want them to get some other thing and the court and this is how they trick them they would tell them oh we can't do that we can't do that unless you sign this like sign a support in that position and agree to move forward with the case. And that's how we'll offer them. Meanwhile, that's not what's going to happen. What they want to do is just sign a support and deposition so we can tell the court that this case is converted, that you've agreed for us to proceed

and can proceed prosecuting them. But that's not the conversation that they had with the complainant. Right. Yeah. It feels like overall, the big picture dynamic here is that they show us the worst case scenario.

Like our copaganda scripted shows show us the when the police are running into a situation, you can damn well guarantee that situation is going to be fucked up and is going to put them in danger. And like even though like that's worse than 99 percent of the situations police are actually running into. And then so it's not surprising that when we like when decisions have to be made about like how to deal with conflicts and these are like everyday conflicts, just disputes between people. people we've seen before that like these community level actions where it's like no you just have like people who live in the neighborhood who are deputized to just go and like be a person to these people and like help them that works much better but because what we're seeing is the copaganda and the worst case scenario we're responding to every situation with the worst case scenario like and that's what the communities are strong yeah and in real life the communities act for community response they ask for violence intervention and violence intervention methods ask for counseling ask for these kinds of

things and what happens is you get mayors like eric adams who go and defund the community initiatives and put more money into the policing and then say and then and then present it to the public that already believes has this manufactured consent into this idea that policing is the only way to respond to crime and that victims because they're watching nothing but propaganda all day. And then they tell them these are what the victims need. We care about the victims. These old big bad advocate all these advocates just want people loose. They don't care about crime. They don't care about the community. They don't live in the community. Yada, yada, yada. That's what they come up with. live in the community, yada, yada, yada. That's what they come up with. Yeah. How do you feel about just the state of the, the state of copaganda and the public's willingness to,

you know, it felt like at some points there were strides that were being made in terms of people being aware that the police are not an effective way of dealing with most communities. But then there's also been this mainstream media narrative where like i remember one of alec karakatsanis's email newsletters was about the the way that random quotes get used in copaganda and like this npr article where they just quote a neighborhood kid being like uh yeah man people are are more willing to carry guns now,

and that's why more people are getting shot. And then defund the police, as he puts it. And Alec was pointing out, we never defunded the police, first of all. Their budgets are at all-time highs right now. Increased. The way that the mainstream narrative came down to us was police got defunded and crime went up it's really infuriating how they get to lie yeah yeah just get they get to bull like that's the thing that's so infuriating right is when you're an when you're

an advocate against policing and mass incarceration you could be a whole expert you can be an attorney you can be whatever you have to cite every fucking word you say you have to cite every word meanwhile they can just boldface lie and even when people even when they are lying just lying and being caught in lies the best you could get people to do is call it misinformation they never call it what it is which is a just lying manufacturing things all all the time but i would say this people have been that's not new right like propaganda has been what people are are fed and indoctrinated to believe in so many ways it's not even just like shows and media in terms at this point we have generations and generations and generations and

generations of people that have been raised in this world that believes that and has that reinforced in so many respects i mean just down to being a little kid when you play cops and robbers you know what i mean it's a regular game who's the good who's the bad right like that's what it is so when i when you think about that in the magnitude of the problem and just how deep it goes i think we are the fact that we even have people where that are regularly critiquing it at all that day there is even a quite the fact that propaganda is even a term you know what i mean that people can can embrace and there is a world of there's at least becoming an anti like an antithesis to this um this uh true crime propaganda movement is us moving moving incredibly moving so much for uh forward i don't think i don't think there's a reason to be deterred but to feel like it's

getting worse because i would not expect that from 2020 to 2024 in four years that we would have undone like a hundred years of of being you know what i mean fed to support the state yeah sure yeah i mean and that just the wild irony is that the thing that like in retrospect the statistical analyses of what caused some place at some locations that was spiking crime during the pandemic was the freezing of like these community-based programs that were actually, that are actually effective, that are the thing that like, if you do a very small spend on those, like as opposed to the massive number of resources that are being demanded by the police for, in response to people just suggesting that they maybe be funded a little less

what what i find frustrating for me is that why when crime like the whole not only do they manufacture crime waves right like they they they pretend they manufacture them but let's pretend it even is true why is that not an indictment of them well i never understand why when crime is up people act like that's that's becomes the plight of people like me never once nowhere ever have they ever enacted my policy once there is no place in america that has said ah let's defund the police and reinvest in the communities and make that what we do that's not what that's not what they do everywhere if you're looking at a place like new york city i don't understand why this crime people who want to at me excuse me we have the biggest police department in the country there's 36 000 of them they have 11 billion dollars okay so if someone's fucking up it's

them right right y'all want to keep trying the same thing no so that's what i wish is i wish that people would look at them feeling unsafe if you feel unsafe or you feel like crime is a problem who is that the fault of if not the people that you've put in charge of and the methods you've been trying and people will tell you they care so so much about crime but yet all they ever want to do is do exactly what they've been doing because they'll be like someone said this to me today like oh all that you're saying might be true but people speak people people are scared they need something done now first of all just because you want an overnight solution doesn't mean there is one crime crime and crime poverty and the systemic realities and the root causes of crime didn't just happen overnight they these

things have been being put into place for generations in a long period of time and the same way you are willing to invest you're willing to keep trying police keep trying to invest in that you'll invest in police every year that's not a problem you act to you that's a foolproof idea that is an expansive idea just give more money to the police but if i say give more money to the community suddenly that's some fucking radical mythical shit right yeah yeah yeah and there's no and nothing empirically to suggest that all this money being spent is actually rendering result that's positive like you look and it's like how many police do you need to feel safe right exactly and it's funny because any in any other dimension of a person's life the logic is always like like if anything is like how much they paying that guy to do that terrible job no no no that's not gonna

work or sports how much money they put like how much they how much they paying for players how much they spend on like signing a player and they still suck no no no something's got to work out different but in this instance it's just like no i honestly the the thinking ends at i don't know just more money i guess because it's just so hard to begin to shift course away from something like that. And it's wild because there's nothing that's showing us that with all the money that's being spent, it's not solving anything. So what is the counter argument? Right. Yeah.

It's just very like old brain, like, you know, pre-advanced brain thinking of fight or flight and people just going dumb immediately and then obviously a great deal of white supremacy mixed in there yes yeah well alimi i feel like we could talk to you about this for hours uh what a pleasure having you on the show uh where can people find you follow you hear more from you you should subscribe to my youtube channel, Olurinati. I have a lot of great content lined up. I'm getting ready to put out a big expose on Greg Abbott. So I'm excited about that. Like the one I put out on Eric Adams. Yes, I'm on Texas's ass. So do that and follow me on all socials, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,

threads at Miss Olurin, M-S-O-L-U-R-I-N. Thank you. Amazing. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? We heard what you thought about Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Is there anything you've been enjoying? I actually started Avatar, the cartoon for the first time. My boyfriend's into Avatar.

I started watching Avatar and I see the hype. I see y'all. Even though I started watching it because people were complaining about the Avatar show saying it's too much exposition but i'm here to tell y'all babies that the cartoon is full of exposition and not the best dialogue too like perhaps your childhood you're remembering this a little different because it's a cartoon and i'm like oh the whole thing is filled with that so yeah avatar yeah i liked that i got i got that recommendation during the pandemic and i spent some of the pandemic watching that that's good it's good miles where can people find you is there working media you've been enjoying

yeah follow me at miles of gray wherever they serve at symbols uh if you like basketball check jack and i out on miles and jack i'm at boost and if you'd like 90 day fiance i'm chatting that shit over at 420 Day Fiance. You know, like, you know what's going on. You have a channel for 90 Day Fiance? I love 90 Day Fiance. Yeah, I have a podcast called 420 Day Fiance. Oh, I'm watching that.

Yeah, it's a good time. It's a good time. So a tweet I like. Josh Gondelman, at Josh Gondelman tweeted, It's fascinating to me how people sometimes roll their eyes at impressions as comedy, but impressions as drama consistently wins Oscars. Oh yeah wow good point and then also uh card at cardamom kissed tweeted she died what she loved walking into the road while saying pedestrians have right of way tweet i've been enjoying uh rob Denblaker tweeted about the Oscars

Is Oppenheimer Godzilla minus one the first time a movie and its sequel both won Oscars in the same year Pretty clever Pretty clever Rob You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist

on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, DailyZeitgeist.com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes, where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. What was a song that we think you might enjoy? Miles, what song do you think people might enjoy? Yeah, there's a new track out from Fred again, one of the producers of the year, really, featuring Lil Yachty, and it's called Stayin' It, one word, S-T-A-Y-I-N-I-T,

and it's just like, it just feels like a massive, you know, party jam. I have a feeling it's going to be played a lot this summer, but just get your energy up with this track, Stayin' It, Fred again, Lil Yachty. Alright, we will link off to that in the footnotes. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

That is going to do it for us this morning. We are back this afternoon to tell you what is trending. And we will talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. Bye. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour.

If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.