The Daily Zeitgeist - Despair Is NOT Our Only Option (with Margaret Killjoy) 11.19.24

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

In episode 1778, Jack and Miles are joined by host of Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff and author of The Sapling Cage, Margaret Killjoy, to discuss… The Various Reactions To The Election, How Suppressing Protests Helped Democrats Lose This Past Election, Stories/People From History That Give Us Hope and more! Checkout Margaret Killjoy's Substack: Birds Before The Storm LISTEN: Big Mike's (Live) by DijonSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You know, the French call orgasms little deaths. I actually call poops little death. I'm going to go have a little death real quick. But then you're coming on the toilet. No, no, like the Elvis death. It's a little Elvis. Oh, okay. I think you're still having an orgasm.

I'm also having a having an orgasm. You're like, I'm also having a full-blown orgasm. I care about the little ass if you know what I'm saying. Is that the, wait, is that the Latin or that's a French? Oh, they say the French phrase for orgasm is a little... Yeah, it's just like a saying. Yeah, le petit mot. I have not asked any of my French friends if this is true or not. It's a very hopeful idea of death.

The death is actually just a giant orgasm. Dude, if that's a little one. I feel like I would also smoke if I thought that's what death was. I wouldn't be super surprised. What? Oh, that it is like... I feel like when I went on... I mean, it wasn't very orgasmic. But like when I went under to have my like teeth pulled recently, like some wisdom teeth, I was like, it's like when I was flooded through with whatever chemicals they put into the IV, I was like, I went in super nervous, right? I do not like going under or I thought I didn't. And instead I was just like, oh, I'm not worried about anything.

Yeah. They could have been like, and now we're killing you. And I would have been like, that's great. Yeah. I got my wisdom teeth out in my early 20s and was told secondhand that when they took me out from under, I was like, hey, could I have more of whatever you just like, can I go back? Take me back. I don't want to be here. Defne Karwana Galitsya was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a Mafia state.

Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by HoneyGerman, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia,

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Hello, the internet and welcome to season 365 episode two of The Daily Zeitgeist. It's a production of iHeartRadio. It's a podcast where you take a deep dive into American shared consciousness. It's a podcast that now has a YouTube channel at Daily Zeitgeist Pod on YouTube. You can go see what we look like when we're saying stuff like this. See the contorted faces now for your viewing pleasure. These are my words. Happy season 365. We've done it. We've done it. These are my words. Happy season 365.

We've done it. We've done it. We've done it. We've gone a whole year around the sun, a whole trip around the sun. True Daily Zeitgeist Challenge, listen to an entire season's worth of episodes every day and you can do that for a full year

and now get through every episode we've had on the show. Yeah, do that. Please don't actually don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Fantastic for our numbers and horrible for your mental health. My name. Oh wait. No, I didn't even tell them what date it is. No, that's my part. Okay, Tuesday. Yeah, November 19th, 2024 Miles. Let's just see. I'm just trying to see if there's any interesting birthdays. Shout out Meg Ryan. Hey, if anyone wants to impress a young Jodie Foster, maybe today on her birthday, born in 1962.

It worked. Yeah, I'm saying you can impress her with your knowledge of her films, like quoting lines from the movie Nell or Contact, okay beaver yeah no Gibson is funny also what it is though of that right November 19th is also National Play Monopoly Day the we're already living it that's okay but hey Jack it's your day it's national carp this is so so vague it's national carbonated beverage with caffeine day So all of God's children

That was like a day invented by cavemen like By Encino man coming forward and experiencing coca-cola for the first time. It's like something in cone heads He's like, yeah more carbonated beverage with caffeine It's like something in Coneheads. He's like, yes, more carbonated beverage with caffeine. Yeah. Anyways, shout out to those of us who used to enjoy that and can't really anymore. Well, you're not drinking Diet Coke? I haven't been drinking Diet Coke. I haven't been drinking Mountain Dew. Mountain Deezies are off the- Honey, you haven't even touched- Is everything okay? You haven't touched

your two liter of Mountain Dew. Yeah, I know. I'm only on my second one and I haven't even dented it. Yeah. Do you feel judged when you go through the line at checkout for not having a two liter Mountain Dew? Yeah. Everybody's like, hey man, you forgot your two liter of Mountain Dew. No, that's a different guy. No, you're Dew Jack.

Trying to eat healthy and they look at the food that I actually have on there. No, you're not. These are Pillsbury Crescent Rolls, just those tubes of them. Yeah, they're really good raw, dude. Underrated. Those are so good. Holy shit. They're not carbonated.

Yeah, exactly. Or no caffeine either. The difference between fresh baked bread and not fresh baked bread is a powerful thing. And like I will go through a whole canister of those crescent rolls. Holy shit, those things are great. You just bunch them up into one mega roll basically and just eat it like an apple.

Have done that. You ever forget to put them in the fridge? No, I don't think so. They just start popping. Oh, right around the middle of the fridge? No, I don't think so. They just start popping. Oh, right around the middle of the night. Right, right, right. Yeah. Too warm.

It's rising. Things are rising in here. My name is Jack O'Brien, AKA Hottie the Snowman has a dirty carrot peen. He was brought to life to fuck your ex-wife with the mind of a preteen Courtesy of plio universe reference to hot frosty which I I haven't seen miles

What is the mental age if you had to pinpoint it at a years old? of hot frosty Definitely under 10. Under, under 10. Yeah. I guess it counts as pre-teen. Simple, simple shit is having to be explained to the hot snowman. The one thing that they do, and this isn't really a spoiler, is that like, he catches on to shit really quick.

I think that's the way they make it seem like, and he's able to like mature pretty quickly. Okay. I know he started off presenting as a childlike mind, but by the end, he's about a 17-year-old dude, probably. With the mind of a pretty smart preteen. It's okay. Smart. Anyways, thrilled to be joined as always by my co-host,

a man who I can count on to have watched Hot Frosty in the first weekend of release. It's Mr. Miles Gray. It's Miles Gray, aka. Carrot Dick and he's melting slowly. Hot Frosty is coming to save us. Carrot Dick and he's melting slowly. All right. Shout out to Richard B 360. I know I got a flurry of a lot of people on the blue sky asking for the discord

invites. I've this, I've not seen this name, so welcome to the server and shout out everybody that's been joining the discord server. Hit me up on blue sky miles of gray over there for the invite y'all, but you got to sign up for blue sky. Okay. Let's just leave the other place. Go to blue sky. Okay.

It's getting better. The, I feel like the longer it goes, the less of the content will be about like, Hey, a lot of people are on blue sky now. It'll get, Hey, who do I know on here? People at, I hate everyone's first blue sky skeet or whatever we're calling it that they do. And it's like, Hey, trying this thing out. It's always some version of that, like an ellipsis. I'm like, yeah, I get it.

I mean, I did something similar, but look, that's what you do. Yeah. So much of my blue sky content is like Mark Hamill is here and people think that's pretty neat. The second one is always worse so much better than everyone who's still on Twitter. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah.

Don't talk to them. True, but not worth saying. No, no, no, don't, don't, don't let that be part of your personality out loud. No. Yeah. Then they're like just posting fire over on Twitter. Well, this guy posts Sky posts are just terrible. This is actually what I did for about a year.

Yeah. Yeah, I joined Blue Sky early enough to get the name Margaret on it. Oh, just straight up Margaret? Straight up Margaret. Killing it. I know, part of me wanted to just go on a run of just owning every handle I could that a brand would want and just be like, I am Bed Bath & Beyond on Blue Sky.

But I think they're a defunct company now, so maybe it's not the best idea. I got in there early, but I've decided instead to go with Jacob 1 or Jack OB 1, but it does look like Jacob 1. Anyways, Miles, we're thrilled to be joined in our third seat by an author, musician, podcast host of the Anarchist Survivalist podcast, Live Like the World is Dying, and

the podcast, Cool People Who Dig Cool Stuff, on Cool Zone Media. Her substack, Birds Before the Storm, is a must read. Please welcome back to the show, Margaret Kiljo! Hi. Hi. She's back to the show, Margaret Kiljo! Margaret! Woo! Hi. Hi. She's back with the wisdom. And she back. It's great to have you, Margaret.

Great to have you, great to have you. I just went on a book tour and I met people who came up and said they knew me because of this show, so. Oh, I love. Zeit Gang. Zeit Gang, we love you. We love that y'all support the people that come on this show.

That's really dope, that's super dope. How was the book tour? Oh, it was amazing. I'm incredibly exhausted. I did 27 cities and 28 events because somehow I went to Brooklyn twice. Wow. I got home two days ago and I don't want to go anywhere.

Yeah. Oh man. Also shout out to the people we have on this show who are worth going to visit in person. That's awesome. Can you talk a little bit about the book? What's the book? Yeah, I went on tour of the book called

The Sapling Cage, which is a, it's technically not a YA. It's a crossover, which is YA, but you admitting that adults read it too. About a young trans girl witch who dresses up as a girl to run away and join the witches in a fantasy world. And then has to help everyone else save the world from people consolidating power through destroying the environment, which is completely unrelatable to anyone who's reading this. I was going to say, where do you come up with this stuff?

What do you, drugs? Too much of drugs and think this wacky stuff up? No, I spent a lot of time alone in the woods, honestly. That is the actual answer. Just meditating on what is. Kind of losing my mind, but yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Meditating. That's one way to describe it.

Yeah, right, right. Losing your mind in the woods, the original drugs. All right, Margaret, we want to talk to you about where we're at. A lot of people having trouble moving forward from the election. You had a great substack post that was one of the few things that I think made us feel hopeful or, you know, like there are things to be done and that there is a way to move forward in time. So we're going to get into that, what fascism, what living under fascism might look like, all of that. But first, we do want to get to know you a little bit better

by asking you, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? Okay, I swear this is because of work, but Irish woman who tried to kill Mussolini was a very recent search string for me. Go on. An awful lot of people tried to kill Mussolini. Eventually some partisans succeeded, right?

And they hanged them upside down and all of that. A lot of people succeeded all at once. Yeah, exactly. People failed and then a lot of people succeeded. Then it was, hey, get your licks in on the street. Yeah. Yeah. The first person who actually tried was this anarchist who

immediately snitched out and became a fascist. And then his friends were like, hey, go kill Mussolini. He was like, totally. And then he went over and was like, they told me to kill you. And so that's bad. Right, right. But then there was this Irish woman named Violet Gibson who I don't know enough about

yet. I haven't finished writing an episode that I'm going to write about all of the people who tried to kill me, Mussolini, of course is coming up for no reason at all. Right. Has he, does Mussolini have like the record for most attempted hits in terms of being like a dictator? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I can point to four off the top of my head, right?

One of them was like a 15-year-old. But I like this woman who shot him in the nose because everyone was like, she was crazy. And she might have actually just been crazy. I'm not sure yet. Violet Gibson. But she shot him in the nose and then it like grazed his nose and then tried to shoot again, but the gun jammed. Wow. A grazing of a single facial appendage,

whatever those things are called, the things hanging off our faces and heads. Yes. Again, unheard of. Where do you come up with this stuff? Lightly grazed, yes. It's funny because this actually turned everyone, Mussolini was able to use this to consolidate a lot of power.

I think this is what Trump was hoping would happen. And then it just didn't. I mean, he won the election clearly. Right. Right. Right. But no one was like, it dropped out of the news cycle. Like in like a week.

That felt, well, I think that was a lot of people's reactions were like, holy shit, the way he's going to use this. And then most people were like, Joe Biden dropped out. Yeah. Or not even based on the Google search. Just maybe not everyone knew that. So deb out. Yeah. Yeah. Or not even based on the Google search. Just maybe not everyone knew that, so debatable. Yeah. The Irish, having a moment. First, we talked before the election about how

the Irish model of politics post the trebles is one that we should look to, especially with regards to local politics, proportional representation that has worked out really well. with regards to local politics, proportional representation. There's a lot to go through the trouble though to get through. Still got to go through the troubles and speaking of which, there's a new Hulu show about the troubles that is apparently very good. Some of the worst billboard advertising I've seen because they

have a woman's face and then the same woman's face, but she has like a black I think it's like a balaclava, but it looks like she's dressed as a ninja and Just I think it's called Don't speak or say nothing is the show but the the image had me confused. I was like, ah, yes the silence Yeah, dude, yes, the silence. Yeah, dude, you know some ignorant dudes like, dude, finally a white ninja show. When do white women get to be ninjas?

Thank you. Or the other version is like, great, a woke white woman ninja series, fuck. It's gonna be everything except understanding what it's about. Yeah. That's right. Anyways, that's supposed to be it. Everything except understanding what it's about. Yeah. That's right. Anyways, that's supposed to be good,

say nothing, the sequel to say anything. It is not apparently. Margaret, what is something you think is underrated? I think underrated is organizing with your friends in community assemblies of any scale. Getting together with people and talking about the problems you're facing and figuring out how to deal with them together.

Uh, people do it all over the world, both instinctively and in an organized fashion and it never gets talked about. Right. I feel like there's a, like there, a lot of the stuff online will be like, how do you, like, how do you organize, like hang out with your friends? And I feel like it sort of ends to just be like, hang out with your friends, but also like to your point, it's not merely that it's to Yeah, collectively understand what you're up against and then articulate something

with the do some kind of analysis with your friends. Yeah, like get a whiteboard and then be like, what is the problem? What are the things that can be used to solve the problem? How do we get those things? Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah. Do you think that's an intentional thing, like how organizing is obscured or made to be more digestible in a way that is, I don't know, it leaves out the real details?

Because I feel like sometimes the impression I'd get on the internet is people just being like, and you just hang out with people. And I do get, I mean, understanding building community like that is obviously one aspect of it, but is that truly doing the kind of like work you're describing? I said, that's a really interesting question because it is the step one, right, is get people to actually go meet up with each other. But the really important step two is the outline your problems and how you want to deal with it. Right.

And leaving that out does seem like a dereliction of duty. And I wonder whether it's because a lot of the people writing about it, because writing is a different job than organizing. And I write about organizing and I used to do a lot of organizing. Right. But I don't do a lot of organizing anymore. I do a lot of writing. So like maybe it's coming from there or people are like, it's the question mark question mark

profit. Part of the problem, right? But there are actually a ton of like books and resources about the question mark question mark of community organizing and they just don't get they don't fit as well into your little Instagram slideshow or whatever. Right, right, right. Sure. Yeah. The most insidious portrayal I've seen of organizing is, I bring this up a lot because I'm old as fuck, Forrest Gump where-

Again. Where the Black Panthers? Yeah. The scene where he goes to Washington, DC during a protest and they just put him in a line and they like all march around from place to place like aimlessly. And like the idea is like, they're just organizing for the sake of following a leader and everyone's like performatively angry, but nothing is actually happening. And I do think, yeah, I do think that the portrayal of organizing in American mass media is specifically designed,

like PCU is another example of that, where it's just like these people don't actually believe in what they're saying. Yeah. They're just doing all this hard work because it makes them feel superior and cooler than you. Which is what people tell themselves to get themselves off the hook for not doing something that they think maybe they should. And you could just not organize. You don't have to.

Right. Yeah. But yeah, like if you feel like morally you should and you're not, so then you just turn around and be like, oh, well, those people are all posers. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. When's Ron Howard making a movie

about Stokely Carmichael? You think that's gonna come out? God. Apollo 13. That was Robert Zemeckis, Forrest Gump, but very much. But it feels like one of those things, like this could be a great story to tell and we'll take out all the teeth from it.

Right, yeah, yeah. What is something, Margaret, that you think is overrated? I think party politics are overrated. Mmm. I think, uh... So you wanted Trump to win, huh? Yeah, no, yeah, exactly. No, no, like... Yeah, it's overrated, not refused to ever deal with or acknowledge.

Yeah. But that attitude that you were talking about about as soon as the election is over, people are like, well, we tried and we lost. So now we're done and we're just have to accept and wait for the next tournament in four years. Like that's not what the world is. Right.

That's how sports works. And I think maybe that's the thing. It's like, well, we dust ourselves off and we'll get them next time. It's like, there's that whole in between part we need to think about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like the part, so you vote, your side loses, and then you get the t-shirt that says, don't blame me, I voted for her.

And that's the second step, right? You wear that. That's all we need? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. We wear that and wait for the next election. Well, selling that is a good, yeah. That's right.

Yeah, even better. All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about the reaction to the election and just generally where do we go from here? We'll be right back. Hey everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Leighton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose

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If you're ready to dive back into the dating pool and find lasting love, finally, we wanna help. Listen to I Do Part Two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh.

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And we're back. We're back. And yeah, I don't know. I think a lot of people are having trouble dealing with the aftermath of the election, the loss, the resounding defeat of the Democratic Party. To your point about big party politics, I think people are like, well, what do we, Blue-Anon? Should we just join Blue-Anon and say the election was stolen? Starling? What do we do from here? I think, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, like for me personally, I think my first reaction was like, oh, fuck, bro. They're gonna do the thing. They won and they're gonna do the thing. And I think as people process what the future will bring, it's important to like grieve and to sort of like process what's happening. But then also we have to begin to sort of turn a page on some level. But I'm curious, Margaret, just from like what you've seen, did anything strike you in terms of how people have like reacted to the election? I think that there's a lot of people to almost don't know

how to feel like obviously in certain communities, you're like, well, this directly affects me immediately. I have friends who are running around trying to get their gender markers to match what they look like or what they want to look like by the time the whole thing is over. And like, you know, are people who are like running out trying to get their tubes tied and stuff, right? And like just trying to get all of the healthcare that they might not be able to get.

Sure. But I think that there's this kind of, people aren't sure whether we're just looking at there's like this like more radical than now cynicism where you're like, oh, it's gonna be 2016 again. And we survived it last time, which isn't entirely true, but most people did, you know, and so we'll survive it again. And it'll just be the same. And everyone who's saying Trump is that much worse is, you know, giving into, is not successfully critical enough of America as an evil empire or whatever, right?

And then there's the people who are like, well, Trump 2.0 might be Hitler. And I mean, the whole spectrum is possible. And that's what's so terrifying, right? And we don't know. And so I feel like it's going to be like halfway between the two. But that's the main thing I'm seeing is people are kind of sorting themselves into the sky is falling, it's over, right? Right. Get the hell out.

We got to go. And then there's the like, what are you panicking about? It'll just be the same thing as always. You know, look, it's a bunch of stupid people he's appointing. Yeah, totally. They'll be ineffective. And we's appointing. Yeah, totally. They'll be ineffective. And we're good here. Yeah.

Yeah. Either way, as long as I don't have to do anything, I'm good with either of these potential theories. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly that. It's the, well, I don't, it's ways for our brain to trick us into not feeling obliged to take action. Right.

Right. Yeah. I think that's the thing that I think a lot of people, I think for me personally, I'm like, when you looked at the binary between Harris and Trump, you're like, well, Harris allows us to kick the can down the road for just a little bit longer. It'll still be grinding people down to dust, but it won't be as on the same sort of trajectory as a Trump presidency would.

And I think that is one of the, to your point, it is one of those things. And it's like, there's no way at this point having an articulated project 2025 or what their goals are and who he's putting into positions of power, it does feel like, yeah, there's really no space to just be like, I don't know, can I be passive at this point and expect everything to go OK?

Because I don't think the examples in history are demonstrate that. Yeah. They're not kind to the people who are passive during the rise of fascism in their country. Right. Yeah. I think people who get their worldview from the mainstream media, for a long time, I think this was, you know, this was me have a hard time imagining where to go from here because the world like in your, uh, sub stack post, which is really good. Everybody should go check it out. You, you like sub stack.com.

There you go. should go check it out. You link up. BarbaraKilljoy.substack.com There you go. You, you quote this crime think article that says a Trump victory means that all the institutions that centrists have counted on to protect them, electoral politics, the court system, the police, ordinary citizens inclination to obey the law and respect the authorities are now weapons in the hands

of their enemies." Which I think is just, it's such a radical shift for, oh, and by the way, you don't quote that part, but when I went to the article you linked off to, like that was something that jumped out to me as like kind of summarizing what is so different for, from like where we were in 2016 and how people could like get on board with, all right, well, we're going to root for a good guy at the FBI to counterbalance Trump. And now it feels like, no, the, they've captured kind of all of that. Like, no, they've captured kind of all of that.

This needs to be kind of coming from a different, what's next needs to look a lot different than cheering for a Robert Mueller investigation and like, you know, checking for hourly updates on MSNBC of the various things that Trump is doing that are wrong and violating norms. And I think people sense that because nobody's watching MSNBC anymore, but I think they're trying to figure out like, where, where do we go now? I mean, I think you're right. I think it's, they, they are absolutely positioning themselves to take all of the different chunks of the state and apply it towards a potentially fascist end.

Like the de-wokefication of the military that they're talking about doing, right? Right. Yeah. Which it creates an interesting situation, and I want to use interesting to not say good, but it creates an interesting situation where you're now going to probably have a bunch of like generals

and like a pretty large chunk of the most powerful military in the world Suddenly kicked out of the most powerful military in the world, right? That's Complicated that has historically not gone that well for the people who kick them out, right? country in which they get kicked out and maybe yeah and and have the the institution of power like the the different parts of the state potentially being in conflict with each other like actually Or rather in this case if you have the capture of the entire state instead of having this sort of like oh the FBI is Like a little bit investigating Trump or whatever. It's like well now if I

Don't know if Trump runs all of it. I don't know where I'm going with this. I mean, the DOJ, well, yeah, I mean, they can definitely do a lot to not tell them, be like, no, we're not looking into that. Yeah. Pretend to like they did with Brett Kavanaugh. Yeah. When he was like on his way to confirmation. And if anything that goes to the Supreme Court is just not we're just screwed on. You know, right. But yeah, but it puts us in a situation where it's like, okay, well, we have to, we can no longer count on daddy state to save us, right? Because you can still look at the

fact that actual progressive values are massively popular in this country. Even in the deepest red states, you know, people are going like 57, 60% on abortion rights. And you know, we're getting like Muslim and trans and like a lot of different people are like winning these local elections, even in these areas that didn't go for Harris, you know? And so the people we shouldn't give up on yet, you know? We just need methods by which to organize ourselves to counter the stuff that's happening.

Right. Yeah, I think that was another sort of immediate election response that I was actually at least having in my brain where just like being in public and just being like, hmm, like 50, over half of these people are, you know, over half. And that first of all, isn't a safe assumption in Los Angeles, but also just, yeah, I feel like people are, a lot of the values that are important to me are important to a lot of Americans and have been like demonstrably. So, but, but that there are all sorts of reasons that we've talked about that people voted for Trump and none of them good, but, uh, I don't think all of them are just, uh, there are half

the people I see on a daily basis are evil and I should be afraid of them. It's probably not the way to move forward through time. I think the other thing that is affecting people a lot is just like when you look at the media right now, especially in this last week, it just feels like the capitulation is on right now. It's bend the knee fast at Mar-a-Lago. Like on MSNBC on Monday morning, Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski, they're like, so we went to Mar-a-Lago to

speak with President-elect Trump, just to begin to restart our lines of communication. But it totally read as this sort of thing like, hey, viewers, we should just lay down and die and be nice to them, because we don't know what the fuck they're thinking. And I think it's really hard to watch the sort of thing like, hey, viewers, we should just lay down and die and be nice to them because we don't know what the fuck they're thinking. And I think it's really hard to watch sort of the fourth estate erode even further in real time like this. And that's very disorienting. But it just feels like at the moment, there's you're just getting a lot of stories that

creates this feeling that this impending experiment with fascism should just be accepted and I think that's kind of like This fork in the road that we're at there's the version where people like so should I just? Watch it but be internally upset by everything I'm seeing or is there also a path where I'm I can do something that invigorates me and I think that's kind of I feel like most people, I think for us to really resist this with any kind of intention and effectiveness, we have to take the path where we begin to prepare ourselves for action. It doesn't mean you're brawling in the streets, but that politics and the direction that the country is going isn't just merely a thing that we're going

to watch just completely burn up in flames that there is some You know, like you said in your sub stack post that we need to sort of get in touch with our agency What how do you like so is it is it good to look at it as this sort of like forking off? Like there's a version of what this administration looks like if we all just say oh my god, it's over It's cooked we're cooked and there what's and then there's the version where we can at least get a little bit more in touch with what we're able to do as people collectively. Yeah, I mean, and I think that the fork in the road is accurate. And there's also like, wild pie in the sky dreams are worth articulating and fighting for. You know, there is a version of this where, okay, the pie in the sky dream is not what I'm about to say. But there's a

version of this where he crashes the US economy, right? Where tariffs just destroy the US economy and therefore the world economy. And so like, that would be bad. But if we are able to articulate like our wild pie in the sky dreams about what we can do during crisis, we will be better positioned to do that. And so I went and did only for a couple of days, but I went immediately after Hurricane Helene to Asheville, North Carolina, because that's where I lived for a long time and my

friends needed some of the stuff I had. And I went to go drive supplies around everywhere. And in the middle of the worst disaster that that area has faced in recorded history, I saw people just building amazing communities of mutual aid. And a lot of people, including not just like the anarchists and the socialists and the, you know, lefty Christians and stuff, like not just the people who normally say this stuff, everyone is like, well, what if we just live this way? What if we just take care of each other, you know, and, and that is not what's likely to happen in

North Carolina in the immediate future, right? But some of those systems have now been deepened. And so I think that getting ready to fight for some of the immediate problems that are likely to come up with the Trump presidency also positions us really well to articulate what we really want. And if the opportunity for those things occurs to position ourselves well to try and fight to get it. And I think that, for example, I would say off the top of my head, or not the top of my head, the thing I've been thinking about for a couple of weeks is probably the most clear and important organizing that needs to happen on a mass level is to fight the deport, the mass deportations, right? I know that like trans people and migrants are the two groups that are likely to become

have to, to come after that the state is likely to come after the most in a Trump presidency. And I don't mean to like put down the importance of trans organizing, but it just numerically, I think, organizing to protect migrants is the most important. Whatever. And I think that we can do that. And I think that we can do that and we can build a movement around that that is like heterogeneous and not just one voice, one name, one tactic, one group, right? I think that we can have multiple groups working in coordination. I think it's the most effective method anyway. And I think that if we do that, we can really start looking at saying like, well, what if like we can take care of each other and since we can take care of each other, why do we need to listen to, you

know, this increasingly fascist state in the first place? Yeah, that's really a good point. So like, because I think for a lot of people who, I think, listening to this show, people have varying degrees of involvement and activism. But I think most people that listen to this show are deeply disturbed by what a Trump presidency can bring. And I mean, if they're still listening at this point are pretty much bought in on the fact that we really all have to look after each other in order for any, for the flight for this kind of collective sort of mutual aid or action to work. What for for people who are dipping their toe into this for the first time, what do you say to them

to sort of begin to say, Look, I get it, for the most part, you've probably not had you've been able to be on the sidelines and just observe what's happening. Maybe you've donated, maybe you've gone to a march or two. But here is the work that we can all be thinking about without, you know, to understand that it's incremental or however, however deep you want to jump in. But what do you think is like a first step just mentally for someone to take to say, Okay, there are some

things we're gonna have to resist, I do care about my community, what do I do now? What's my frame of mind I need to enter and think about the actions I can take that sort of help take that first step down that road. Yeah. I think one thing to do is both personally and with your groups of friends, think about what kind of actions you're willing to take. What kind of risks you're willing to take and also who of risks you're willing to take, and also

who you're willing to support who might be taking further risks than you. And then also think about what you're good at or what you would like to be good at and then how to apply it to those things. So for example, you could get together with your friends and you could say, look, none of us have any protest experience, but honestly, if someone who's helping organize tells us where to stand in front of buses, we will go stand in front of buses to keep them from taking migrants out, right? This is a tactic that has been used effectively in the United States before, right?

And maybe that's a level of risk you're willing to take, but maybe it's not a level of risk you're willing to take. And in which case you're like, well, I'm a, I'm the sole provider for my family or I have panic attacks or, you know, whatever it is, right? You could also say, well, who do I know who is willing to take those risks? What kind of support work do they need? Right? What kind of do they need?

You know, are there legal support lines that will crop up? Because one of the things is during crisis, opportunity arises. And that also includes opportunities to get involved. So if you're kind of preparing yourself to be ready, and then you start seeing these groups that start doing a thing, well, then you can start saying like, oh, OK, I am prepared to go sit by a phone and bail people out of jail. That is a level that I am willing to do. And then when something comes up, you can reach out to that group and say,

hey, I'm willing to do this. The other thing you can do is you can reach out proactively to anywhere that you live, the groups that help migrants in those areas, because those are likely to be the sort of nuclei of larger coalitions or organizations that are likely to come up. And then you could also start something.

If you don't find something in your area that like matches your vibe, you can start something and then be in communication with those groups. And maybe you start with something that like, well, then maybe there aren't any buses to block yet because of where you live, right? You probably shouldn't go around and like compile lists of all the undocumented people in your area. That's like probably a bad idea. Right. You know, just to support you. Can I get your name? Yeah. And you live here? Okay, great. Great. Great. Yeah. But yeah, so I think that reaching out to groups that are

already doing it and or forming like, there's a there's a concept called an affinity group, which is a sort of cell level of a decentralized movement. It's the like group of three to seven people or 20 people, whatever, I don't care, you know, that all have each other's backs really deeply. And that doesn't mean that everyone's necessarily going to go out in the streets, but they are, but they're the people that you're going to organize with to get involved in other things. And this maximizes your ability to come at those, to join those groups with agency.

It also helps prevent you from, there's this kind of thing that you should be careful when you're new at activism, especially direct action activism, like blocking buses or something, right? Where some of the cynical older organizers are going to be like, oh, you're young and impressionistic. Why don't you take all the risk? You know, right. And that's like not great.

Right. And so the more that you think about this ahead of time, the more you can go into a meeting and being like, I won't get peer pressured into the following action because I know ahead of time that I'm not willing to do that right now. Maybe three actions down from now. You decide you are willing to go get arrested, you know? Right. Yeah.

Let's, uh, let's take a quick break. We'll come back and we'll keep talking about specific things we can do and other aspects of your posts that are giving us hope. We'll be right back. Hey everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Leighton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. It took drama and mayhem to an entirely new level. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, every backstab, blackmail and

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. You have the sentence about kind of a psychological dynamic that I've

found to be true that I thought was really important that you write. A therapist friend of mine reiterates to me all the time that acting with agency is the primary way to avoid being traumatized by negative experiences. This is a big thing in recovery from addiction. There's the serenity prayer that I think everybody has heard where it asks for the courage to change the things you You have power over, but I've had somebody who I've worked with pointed out. It's actually like the reverse. A lot of the time you change the things that need to be changed

and the courage comes from that. But you need, you need that first action to build on. And, and hopefully it's not an action that kind of meets with, yeah, like you were saying, like manipulation or shame or dismissiveness. So I like that so far you've been kind of emphasizing building with people you know and trust to begin with and then like plugging into existing groups. But yeah, doing so kind of in a, in a well informed way. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyways, I thought that was cool. Where, uh, you also talk about this need to deescalate conflict that isn't with the enemy. And one thing that's come up a few times in the aftermath of the with activism that is basically anything that you are doing that doesn't fall within the realm of neoliberalism is actually unrealistic and childish basically. But I guess I'm curious when you say deescalate conflict that isn't with the enemy. Like, who is the enemy?

Are you deciding that kind of person by person and just, or group by group, or how are you thinking about that? I make that decision conflict by conflict. If I find myself like kind of in a conflict, I have to think to myself like, is this person my enemy? And sometimes even if they're like ideologically the same as me in surface ways, they might person my enemy? And sometimes even if they're like ideologically the same as me in surface ways, they might be my enemy.

Right? If someone is trying to hurt me or my friends. Right? You know, but then even then I'm kind of like, on the other hand, I've successfully deescalated conflicts with people who are trying to hurt me physically, you know? And that is a better solution to that problem, right? Than if I had like beat them up or gotten beaten up, right? But I do think that I can't dictate for other people

what counts as the enemy as much as like, say if you are in a conflict, just really saying to yourself, is this person actually my enemy? And most of the time they're not. And it is interesting to me because overall people, individual people are unlikely to be my enemy. There are individuals like just fascists, right? People who are like, I'm a fascist. I like fascism, right? Right. But if they stop being fascist, they probably stop being my enemy. And I think we need to have like an off road for people

to leave hate groups and things like that. But there's also, I live in like a center right area, right? I live in West Virginia. There is not a county in West Virginia that went for Harris, which is depressing because West Virginia exists because it's the part of Virginia that didn't wanna die over slavery. And, you know, actually died on the other side, like fighting against slavery, but it is what it is.

It is now a center right state or a deep right state, depending on where you're at. But I don't believe, I don't conceive of my neighbors as my enemies. And I'm grateful that they do not appear to conceive of me as their enemy either. Right. But the Republican party is my enemy. And yeah, frankly, the democratic party is also my enemy, at least structurally. I believe that the democratic party exists to co-opt protest energy and like movement energy and turn it into this thing that has never proven once that it can shift things to the left. All it can do is slow,

not even stop slow, rightward creep, right? Right, Right. And so they are doing the work that I oppose and I want to oppose it. And so I'm going to organize to oppose it. And I, I have enemies on the left. I specifically strongly disagree with authoritarian, like communist tendencies and not the problem. My problem here isn't the word communism. The problem here for me is the word authoritarian. Like I am not trying to tell anyone in the crowd what to think, but I like, I am opposed to

people trying to advocate for a totalitarian society, regardless of what it's called, you know? But then the people who are necessary, sometimes the people who are arguing for that are, could be fellow travelers. And they've just been convinced that there's this strategy that'll magically work that has never worked. You know, and so enemy is weird. It is weird to have enemies, but I also don't want to be like, there is no enemy.

We're all friends. Sometimes- Hug everyone this Thanksgiving. Yeah. Like you were saying earlier, like, hey, it doesn't necessarily mean rumbling in the streets, but like sometimes it does, right, right. Sometimes. Hug everyone this Thanksgiving. Yeah. Like you were saying earlier, like, hey, it doesn't necessarily mean rumbling in the streets, but like sometimes it does, right? And like, maybe you don't wanna go

rumble in the streets, dear listener, but you should support the people who beat up fascists in the streets because overall fascism is a coward's ideology. And once they get beat up in the streets, they stop coming into the streets and then they stop building successful movement. That is not the only or the most effective strategy

with which to confront them. But the people who go and fight them are my friends. Right. Yeah, like, because right now, I think you're, we're beginning to see a lot of misidentifying of quote unquote enemies. Yeah, probably. Because, you know, because the democratic party

is in total free fall. And you have people who were on the verge of like sort of seeing the light about being like this party is actually truly ineffective and it just feels it's it's the really good at empty promises and co-opting that in like 2020 it was like we need to do something about the police and then Joe Biden's like we should just be a little bit nicer to them and you're like wait what the fuck um and you're like this just makes your head spin. Then there's this version two where you see a lot of people who are now

from the establishment side of the party, people who are blue no matter who types, immediately now going after again, we're seeing the woke is broke. Why are we bothering to protect vulnerable people like the trans community or what, or the people who are like, hey, Arab voters, I hope you're happy now because look who Trump just appointed. Yeah.

You know, and that's where I'm seeing like, that's, that's a, that's going to be a huge setback for, for sort of like bring, like creating a larger coalition. But the way those people speak at the moment, they're not ready, I think, for the bigger picture. They are still very much hyper-focused on the pain of the election loss and are just trying to be like,

it wasn't because of the policies, it's because of them. Don't ask me to interrogate what the policies are because I'm just not interested in that conversation. How do you like, I guess historically, when you see sort of a party that was in power power seemed like it was quote unquote doing the right things then collapse to sort of like usher in fascism what happens to like the scraps or like the people that were supporting that party. remind people of like what the larger issue is because more people you see more people people blaming than system blaming Yeah, and I think that's what's interesting is like the needle is definitely a lot of you plenty of people are blaming the system But it feels like more people are blaming other people at the moment I think that's a really important point that people are blaming people instead of systems and and I think overall

We need to try and be doing like coalition building and stuff with people who are looking to do coalition building who are looking to find to work pluralistically like to you have this kind of a tolerance paradox you know that if you tolerate intolerance then you lose your tolerance or whatever right and I think that that's same is true for like working ideologically put pluralistically, where there are so many people that we can work with who have no problem not trying to dominate the movement

and tell everyone what to do. You know, in an activist spaces, we see this really easily where like, the average church group isn't trying to convert you. You know, if they're activists, if they're Christian nationalists, they're trying to convert or kill you, right? But the average, like, we're the Catholics or the Protestants who bring food to the border and give it away.

Like those people aren't trying to like, save your soul, they're just trying to feed you and that because they understand those as related, you know, or in their own theological understandings. And so you can work in coalition. You could, they would work with like Satanists for feeding migrants. Right. And, and so it's, I know I'm kind of only going with half of what you were saying and I apologize for that. No, no, no, no, no. But, but then to the other part of your question about what happens

when totalitarian takes over, one of the things that I think that people aren't quite as much as like my goal is to spread hope, but not ignorant hope, right? My goal is to, we have to soberly look at how bad this situation is so that we can successfully confront it. And one of the things that could happen and has happened a lot is that when totalitarianism comes in,

it comes in fast. You know, when Hitler came to power, he was arresting his enemies the night he came to power. is that when totalitarianism comes in, it comes in fast. You know, when Hitler came to power, he was arresting his enemies the night he came to power. Right. And that's not always the case. I actually don't think that's going to be the case in the United States. That is, I'm still in the United States, you know, like making my decisions based on the fact that I don't think that Trump is going to come to power and then immediately arrest all the leftist podcasters and the progressives and whatever, right? He might criminalize a bunch of stuff and he will make organizing hard

and he will start. But on the other hand, there actually are already groups he's planning to criminalize and do horrible things to. And so it's almost like self-important for like for those of us who are citizens to be like, oh, well, he might do the following. He's like, he said which very large group of people he wants to put into camps. He doesn't mean it. We've all learned when he tells us the horrible thing he's about. Oh, wait a second.

Yeah. He always does it. He's done it every time. That's right. He's actually the most honest politician we've had in this country for a very long time. Someone's going to use that out of context. He, he tries to hold to his campaign promises. Right.

They're monsters. He's like, I'm going to be a monster. And everyone's like, hooray, he's going to be a monster. And then he is. So, and then of course, all of the people who are going to go bend the knee. And I really liked that framing of it. I think that's a good framing of it. That there's no safety in that.

Like there's no, Yeah, there's... All of the people who voted for him and are like now gonna... All of their stuff is gonna be twice as expensive. You know, it's... Anyway, whatever. Yeah. I'm gonna kill it on eBay as a seller. He just bought a ton of like some Chinese made stuff and yeah.

Just something that... Something else that you raised that I think the election results should probably have made clear to a lot of people, but you're right. That moderate reforms are won by making radical demands. If you demand moderate reforms, you generally get nothing. And it just also, it seems like the suppressing of the protests helped cause the democratic kind of cratering that we just saw. Both the suppressing of the pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses, but just protests

in general by the Democratic Party is like something they, feels like they've been pretty hostile towards. And thus it's been harder for people on the left to build kind of community and sort of the, the structures that we're talking about needing, but can you give, give examples of like the two types of movements, like the radical demands versus like the ones that make moderate demands. Yeah. Yeah.

I can do that. But first, to your point about the suppressing protests, I think the Democratic Party is very good at building off of the momentum of protests, from my point of view, co-opting it, but that's not the only way to view it. And so yeah, of course, but then they want to be the only adults in the room. So when they're in charge, everyone is a bunch of children if they protest against them. And so, yeah, of course it doesn't work. Like, I think if they were smarter, they would have been like, we too support free Palestine without doing anything. They wouldn't have to, all they have to do is give lip service. Right. And you

see Biden try to pull this at the last minute being like 30 days and then later being like, just kidding. I don't care. Do whatever you want. But in terms of radical and moderate demands, okay, the abolition of legal chattel slavery in the United States, reformist abolition, they tried that for a century or so. And the primary argument that they would make is they came up with all these like, you know, they saw it as like very mature and compromising positions where they're like, well, what if we slowly buy people out of slavery? Like what if we allow, you know, we have to, of course we have to pay back the slave owners, right?

You know, they of course need to, because their property has been taken away from them. You know, there's all of these arguments that they made for a very long time. And now some of the reforms that they pushed for, I will say, actually did accomplish things like stopping importation of enslaved people had some impact. But it very clearly took a zealot, right? Well, it took a lot of zealots and a lot of blood to stop legal chattel slavery in the United States. It took a whole ass war and it took the demand,

we're gonna kill you if you don't stop enslaving people. That was the demand that made any of this possible. And what's funny is that they actually could have, the South could have at that point probably sued for peace in a way that there was like, okay, we accept the compromise, pay us for what we could have, pay us for our losses and we'll stop. Like that was an offer that was on the table more or less. And so they could have gotten the moderate thing, but instead they were like, wanted to go whole

hog and got killed and to hell with them. But another example of this like gaining moderate things by being a radical group is you have the Young Lords, which is a Puerto Rican radical movement comparable to the Black Panthers in the 1960s and 70s. And they were in Chicago and New York City primarily. They're actually still around, but they're like sort of heyday. And some of the things that they accomplished

are really tangible. We have the patient's bill of rights. They did a lot of healthcare focused work, right? They like took over hospitals time and time again. Well, maybe only twice. I don't remember, but they did it a bunch, right? They would like go in car jack x-ray vans and bring them into neighborhoods of like where minorities were living because the x-ray vans were only going into these white neighborhoods in

Order to search for tuberculosis and stuff in the community, right? And they also got trash pickup in New York City They completely got it overhauled and it wasn't that they formed the coalition of concerned voters who care about trash pickup Could you please change the way the trash is picked up? they just started collecting all the trash and burning it in the streets. And then they and then instead of doing it in their own neighborhood, they drag it out to like the busy intersections where like the rich people had to drive. And then they would just throw street parties and burn all the trash. And finally, the city was like, all right, we'll we'll start doing this.

What they were fighting for was a free Puerto Rico. Right. Right. And they didn't get that right. But by trying to get that, they got an awful lot. And they got stuff that people who were asking for moderate demands weren't going to get ever. Right. Yeah, because I think your subsec you also point to the summer of 2020. Like it rightly it wasn't like we're like, we want Joe Biden. to get ever. Right. Yeah. Cause I think in your sub stack, you also point to the summer of 2020, like it.

Right. Lee, it wasn't like, we're like, we want Joe Biden. So we're out here, you know, right. Yeah. Because people are in the streets being like, we need to defund this shit. These people, like we have authoritarian anti-black racism, like with people who are, have been given the blessing by the state to take people's lives. We need to fucking end this.

Defund the police. The worst phrase ever come up with in English language? No, that's a loser. That's a loser. I'm from the swamps. I know about a loser. But he does this like, that was a point where we were asked, there were a lot of people came together to ask for these larger reforms. You got it in varying degrees in some places, but what it did do in the end was fully blunt the momentum of a Trump reelection, which in that moment, yeah, that was a nice thing that we got, that we had an end, at least to the Trump administration. Now, the co-opting definitely happened. 100%. I mean, we saw it all the time. All I can think about is Nancy Pelosi with the Kinte cloth on in the rotunda and I'm like it's over they did it that was it yeah but and it's worse than it was before right exactly but to that point is if enough people clearly become incensed about a thing and come together to do that something things happen whether directly or indirectly and I think that was one of the biggest takeaways for me, reading the sub stack was, when people are able to act collectively, there are going

to be results, it might not be the intended top of the list thing. But other things do come from it, that end up being somewhat of a positive or at least begin to be, you know, create conversations that you have like in LA where the city controller became someone who's like, my whole thing now is just posting police budgets on the billboards. So people of LA understand like where the money is going. Wow. You just get these like sort of smaller things and more people become a little bit aware. And I think that's the thing that we sort of have to sort of emphasize for ourselves is to know that a, that the time will come where we will need to sort of figure out a way that how we're going to contribute to make something better and that it is possible.

And you can do it in a way that is specific to whatever your level or ability is, whether if you're your ability, you're like, or like, like whether it's physical abilities or just whatever your your comfort level is with being in physical space or putting yourself in a situation where you might have to be confronted by law enforcement, etc. But there are many ways to do this. So it doesn't have to feel like, well, it's either I'm putting on a uniform and I'm out there in the streets doing my thing cracking heads. No, no, that there is a there are many other ways.

And I think it's important that we get together, identify within our own communities. We're like, we all need to talk about this. Like if I need medication, do you like what, how far out can you get? How far can you drive? Do you have a generator? Do you have these kinds of skills? Who does? Oh, are they down to do they think like us?

OK, cool. Now we have 15 people that among us, we have an engineer, we have someone who has a medical background, we have someone with the skills for horticulture, whatever it is that you begin to understand that collectively, we can actually do a lot of things that will keep us safe, while also keeping an eye on the larger goal, which is to, you know, again, try and blunt the momentum of fascism in the country. So I think that's the one thing I hope a lot of people are able to sort of get in touch with.

It's, it's, it's as easy as you need it to be. But the hard bit is just to take that first step and you can take it as comfortably as you want, but make sure you are focusing on how you either you're going to keep yourself safe, your friends safe, whatever. And then from there, so many other things can branch off and it doesn't have to look like, you know, whatever the scary thing is in your mind that might be putting you off from wanting to take action because it's very easy and you'll find many other like-minded people out there. Yeah. Well, Margaret Kiljoy, thank you so much for coming on.

It gives me hope that someone who has a much deeper knowledge of the history of these sorts of movements is optimistic, feels like the wrong word because it's not like, we're optimistic that this thing is going to take care of itself. Not the way I was optimistic based on the Seltzer poll where I was like, yeah, we're going to be good. Uh, but then, but that we can come together to strategically do things to help one another.

So I really appreciate you coming on. Where can people find more about you? Follow you all that good stuff. Yeah. You can follow me on blueky at Margaret, whatever the thing that comes after your name on bluesky is. He's got social, yeah. And which is newish to me, but and then you can follow me on Instagram, Margaret Killjoy, you can follow me on sub stack. Half my posts are free. They're always like more important posts are always going to be free.

So you can subscribe for free. And then if you want to know more about like my personal life as a weird person who lives in the woods and used to ride trains or whatever, you can pay for the, the premium version where you can read my journals and things. And, uh, and I have a podcast. I have a podcast on this very network on iHeartRadio and it is called cool people who did cool stuff. It's part of cool zone media. podcast on this very network on iHeartRadio. And it is called Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. It's part of Cool Zone Media. And if you want to know more about individual and community

preparedness, then I also have a podcast that's not on this very network. And it is called Live Like the World Is Dying. And I have a bunch of co-hosts on that. And every week on Friday, we talk about how to get prepared as both individuals and communities to get ready for things that are happening. Awesome. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Oh, no. This was in the prompt. But I have this thing where I forgot to write it down

and then my brain turns blank every single time. Okay, I just read this book called The Deluge and I don't have the author's name in front of me, and it's the climate change book. And it is it and the Kim Stanley Robinson. What is it? Stephen Markley? Yeah. I listened to it on audiobook, so I wasn't like picking it up every single time and seeing the cover.

And then Kim Stanley Robinson has a book called The Ministry for the Future. And together, these are two of the most in-depth analyses of possible futures as relates to climate change and the fight for it That I have ever read and so I guess I would recommend those not as like Neither one is like the plan that I'm signing off on especially the deluge, which is not very optimistic Well, actually it kind of is actually anyway, I don't spoil anything- I'm assuming it's basically a novelization of Waterworld. Is that? It's not the furthest thing from that. Yeah, we did a whole episode,

just me giving a book report on the ministry for the future. Oh, amazing. I actually need to go back and listen to that then. A lot of fun. Great, that's a great recommendation. Miles, where can people find you? Is there work media you've been enjoying? Yeah. Find me on all the social medias,

but check me out on Blue Sky, milesofgray.bsky.social, where I'm just chatting shit and talking to all you guys. Thank you for reaching out. Find me on, or actually find Jack and I actually on the basketball podcast, Miles and Jack.MadBoosties. Where we talk about the NBA and then my other hobby, which is watching reality TV I do that talking on 420 day fiance the piece of media that I like is actually also the song we're gonna go out on but the reason it's the piece of

Media I like is because there's a video version of this track that I think is cool to watch. And it's nice to watch people make music and just be kind of feeling it while they do it. So I'm just gonna do Two Birds and One Stone. It's the artist Dijon, D-I-J-O-N. And he like does a lot of work with the artist McGee, who's really popular right now, MK.GE.

You might have seen that name floating around a lot. This guy, Mike Gordon, who's like a really good producer, guitar player. The track is called Big Mike's, but it's the live version. And it's really cool because it's just like one take in this like dining room. And everybody's just, it's such a dope track. It reminds me of like a, almost like D'Angelo,

voodoo-esque kind of like feeling, cause it's really soulful and simple and builds in this Way that is really nice. So this is also the song we're going out on but it's Dijon big mics But the live version would you should watch on YouTube and that will be in the footnotes footnotes Yeah, we'll link off to that in the footnotes. It's very good I've not seen miles quite this smitten by Work of Media in a long time. He's nice to watch people jam. We entered Monday morning recording and this recording, he was listening to this song and it's great.

You can find me on bluesky at Jackob1, and can find us on Twitter at dailyzeitgeist. Oh, Work of Media I've been enjoying. We've got a lot of recommendations for English Teacher on FX. Finally watched it. Really, really enjoyable. Eight episodes sitcom series blow right through it real quick, and it's a lot of fun.

So shout out to all the guests who recommended it as their work of media that is now also a work of media. I would recommend you check out. You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, DailyZeitgeist.com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes. Footnote.

To link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode as well as the song that Miles just recommended. Yep. So you can find that there. That's Dijon. Big mics. Live. There it is.

Watch it. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is going to do it for us this morning. We are back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we will talk to you all then bye bye Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder

a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a Mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking music, the awards, the gossip, and all things trending in my culture. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers.

Each week we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello?

And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Prententi.

And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. If you're early in your career, you probably have a lot of money questions. So we're talking to finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it down. Looking at the numbers is one of the most honest reflections of what your financial picture actually is.

The numbers won't lie to you. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom.

Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.