The Daily Zeitgeist - Executive Orders 101, If Movie Times Were Honest 01.28.25

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

In episode 1804, Jack and guest co-host Andrew Ti are joined by poet, lawyer, and co-founder and Executive Director of Partners for Justice, Emily Galvin-Almanza, to discuss… Executive Orders: Now That They Seem to Run the US… How Do Those Work? NYTimes Trying to Manufacture Consent for Trump Policies? Kroger X Microsoft Collab To Make Surge Pricing Groceries A Thing, A Connecticut Bill Would Force Movie Theaters To Admit When The Movie Actually Starts and more! NYTimes Trying to Manufacture Consent for Trump Policies? Support for Trump’s Policies Exceeds Support for Trump A Connecticut Bill Would Force Movie Theaters To Admit When The Movie Actually Starts When does a movie really start? Connecticut official wants theaters to post accurate times ‘Star Wars: The Phantom Menace’ Introduced Trailer Culture 20 Years Ago LISTEN: wiggy by Young Miko L.A. Wildfire Relief: DONATE: Support the Kaller/Gray Family's Recovery Zeitgang Lightsaber Auction and Fundraiser Displaced Black Families GoFund Me Directory See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I Don't know I did not think that it was like treated as a will pay you to advertise our Movie, but that makes every other venue gets money to play an ad when you play their ads, right? but yeah, but also it's a little different because the movie theater is also the place where you it's Arguably those products to yeah, they're advertising their own product But also it's a little different because the movie theater is also the place where you it's arguably their product to kind of advertising their own product. Yeah, but maybe they're not. This is my question.

I think everybody's paying Nicole Kidman. Yeah, that's all flowing back to her. If she had any if she wanted to fully vertically integrate, she would just buy a trailer house and fucking just own every that whole 25 minutes. That's Kidman. She just like comes in and is like, ooh, after every trailer, they just cut back to Nicole Kidman being like, enjoying the trailer. Damn. Yeah. I mean, why not? Because when you're watching Morbius, your family, she's not when you're here, your family, that's all of garden, but it feels like the sort of thing she could say. All right.

Yeah. Is there something in the, yeah, the magic in a place like this? Yeah. Because when you're here, you should be watching herself in baby girl. Yes. Getting trailer. Yeah. Having some baby girl milk crazy.

Having some milk. Yeah. I didn't see baby girl, so I'm just going off of what I know of babies. There's milk in it. It works on two levels, yeah. They be having milk in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They'd be having milk in that movie. Yeah. Here at LifeKit, NPR's self-help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful

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Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in-depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. People, my people, what's up? This is Questlove. Man, I cannot believe we're already wrapping up another season of Questlove Supreme. Man, we've got some amazing guests lined up to close out the season, but I don't want any of you guys to miss all the incredible conversations we've had so far. I mean, we talked to A. Marie, Johnny Marr,

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Hey guys, stay here. Production of iHeartRadio. Oh hell yeah, brother. This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. We now have a YouTube channel, a YouTube slash at Daily Zeitgeist Pod. Go check out the YouTube and go see some video apps. It's Tuesday, January 28th, 2025. My name is Jack O'Brien, aka DeepSeek. Yeah. My name is Jack O'Brien, AKA Deep Seek. Yeah, coded on the down low. There's shit in the pants of many tech bros.

That one courtesy of Christy Yamaguchi made a little creep from TLC. And speaking of T, thrilled to be joined in our mile seat by a hilarious and brilliant producer and TV writer You know him from the yo's this racist podcast. It's Andrew T Normally I don't have an aka because I got asked to last minute This is the single most lead time I've ever had for I'm gonna be guest hosting and I completely forgot Come on. T-Boz was the cool of the crazy sexy cool album for I believe I don't know. Correct yeah yeah yeah. Chilly was sexy. Chilly was sexy. Cool. T-Boz was cool.

And the best... The young kids don't know what we're talking about. And the best Karen haircut haver possible, I believe. T-Boz? She was... T-Boz was the only good person to have that haircut. It's so interesting how influential she is with Karen's. Karen's were like, just give me the T-vars.

Anyways, we, Andrew, are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a poet and lawyer who is the co-founder and executive director of Partners for Justice, which is designed to create a new model of collaborative public defense designed to empower. You probably read her dive on Twitter into Project 2025 last year. Well now Project 2025 is here and so is she. Please welcome back to the show Emily Galvin Almanza.

Thank you so much for having me without any AKAs at all, just notorious in my own right. Yes. Glad to be here. The notorious Emily. I'm glad to be here. The Notorious M. Ali. If that's something. AKA Esquire. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah. The Notorious ESQ.

It's great to have you. Thank you so much for coming back during these wonderful times. It turns out that Project 2025 stuff that you are warning us about, no big deal. Everything turned out pretty, oh, wait. I'm seeing here that you're warning us about. No big deal. Everything, everything turned out, uh, pretty, uh, wait, I'm, I'm seeing here. That is not the case. Uh, it's, it's bad.

It's bad. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about something that following you on Twitter made me aware of, which is that Kroger and Microsoft doing a little collab-o to use your face to give you boot, not boutique, what's the thing where it's like just for you. Predatory pricing. Predatory pricing.

I was going to say bespoke, but that's probably how they'll pitch it to us. Bespoke suits are better. This is like making something worse. So it's like the opposite of bespoke. We're presenting you with bespoke egg prices that are designed to charge you as much money as you are willing to pay. We're definitely going to talk about a bill that would force movie theaters to admit when the movie actually starts.

All of that, plenty more. But first, Emily, we do like to ask our guest, what is something from your search history? Oh my gosh. I looked it up for you. I said you were going to ask me this and I realized the last thing I searched for was Locutus of Borg. Uh-huh. Because we are now, yes,

I have a seven-year- old, we are phenomenal parents, which means we watch way too much Star Trek in the evenings when we're exhausted after work. She's home from school. We're, we're, we're dipping into Star Trek, the next generation now. We're like at that point where Patrick Stewart's character is about to be overtaken by the Borg

collective and I wanted to prep the kid for it, mostly so that she doesn't talk about it too much at school. We've already had a complaint from another parent that she frightened their child by talking about the Borg. So- Wow. So explain the Borg to me as though I'm not a Star Trek fan.

Oh man, okay. So the Borg are- Oh, Jack. Just let us make believe you- I'm gonna pretend that you're pretending, because of course you are, as all Borg are- Oh, Jack. Just like a man. Make believe you- I'm gonna pretend that you're pretending because of course you are, as all good people are. The Borg collective is a sort of species, a quasi species that assimilates other species

by taking them over, putting technology in their heads, basically making them part of a hive mind. And so every creature in the universe is at risk of becoming co-opted by this hive mind and forced to serve the goals of the Borg Queen. Yes. A lot of parallels. A lot of parallels we can talk about.

Yes. I have heard references to this, I think maybe in The Simpsons, if you've ever heard of that show. It doesn't ring a bell. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. How are you making, I have a six and an eight-year-old. We were trying to decide what to watch this weekend.

It was a dude house weekend. My wife was out of town. I was like, they still haven't seen Back to the Future. Amazing. We're going to show them Back to the Future. Then I told another parent that, and they were like, there's that whole runner about incest. I was like, yeah, okay.

They're like in the scene where people are getting shot with machine guns. I just pumped the brakes on it. But are you just vibing it out? How intentional are you on your decision-making on what to show your seven-year-old? I made a fantastic decision early, which is that I don't want to watch any kid stuff, so she just has to figure out what things

I actually want to watch we can watch together, which resulted in a lot of 1950s musicals being consumed. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Then she reads a lot and I can't read faster than she does So she's getting a lot of content in the books. She's reading that like I can't keep up with yeah I try to just gauge from her reactions what she's comfortable with like for example Only murders in the building Steve Martin Martin short Selena Gomez. She loves it. Okay, there's death in the show

There's but it's like a game of as the. As the title would suggest. You know. Yeah. That one doesn't sneak up on you. Yeah. I had a feeling there might be death in that one. Yeah. And honestly, like a lot of the, like back to the future, I would not assume that the kids would even pick up on. Sure.

The incest joke. I tried to just stay away from like really gory stuff. Although she defeated me in that too. There was a while when she was like four or five and she got really into those veterinarian shows on like whatever reality channel just has like Dr. Pole like with his arm all the way up inside a cow. She was really into that. So yeah.

Does that count as gore in your mind? Not really. I guess I just think viscera is technically gore, I guess would be, I'm not a parent. Yeah. It's very clearly not a parent. If it's guided by biological interest, I guess, would be. I'm not a parent. Yeah. If it's guided by biological interest, I'm down. If it's gratuitous, not really. Sure.

And Supervisor Victor, who is into that sort of thing, no, he says that those types of shows get super bloody out of nowhere. As does all the veterinary medicine. So does surgery. Right. Wait, we talked about this a little bit yesterday. I can't believe, not can't believe, but I am impressed that you have a seven-year-old

in 2025 who can handle the pacing of TNG. I think I'm watching, as an adult, I'm watching my attention span not be able to handle stuff made in the 90s, like just like story-wise and I guess editing-wise. So I think that is amazing, honestly. Hey, I protected her from the brain rot that got all of us, man. She's never been on YouTube, but she reads Enid Blyton. So TNG is exactly the right vibe for her. Right level. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we were talking about how there's a thing called the millennial pause on videos where with millennials who are the old ones in this scenario, they take like quarter of a second to put their phone down before they start talking. And whereas Gen Z starts talking as they're putting their phone down and like the millennial pause is like making fun of millennials for like not for not knowing how fast media like how grabby media is supposed to be because there's a split second at the very beginning of their videos where they're putting their still putting their phone down so that's where we're at for people who are on on YouTube I've

managed to keep mine off of that but I did make the mistake of showing my eight-year-old transformers and And so he has Michael Bay in his veins. Oh, the live-action Transformers? Yeah. Oh my god. I know. Fucked up. I made a big mistake. They're just like, it's just like a human being made out of knives. It's so pleasant. That's what he's into. What is, Emily, something you think is underrated? I think that the commitment of teachers to protect their students right now has been heavily underrated. I'm thinking about this a lot, obviously, because the conversation right now is how

far into schools will immigration enforcement get? And you're hearing a lot from these schools that are trying to get ready for ICE agents showing up the door and wanting to take children out of school. And I think we've really underrated the fact that we've got teachers now who have been in these classrooms for decades, knowing that there's a chance they might have to take a bullet for one of these kids.

Right. And I don't think that the government has really thought through how fero these kids. Right. And I don't think that the government has really thought through how ferociously a teacher who's willing to die for their students will protect them from being taken by men with guns. Right. So I think the ferocity of teachers has been substantially underrated.

Yeah, yeah. I'm seeing people talking about that and, you know, working together on that question of like how to avoid having them use those students' access to public education or education against their families. Well, can I have a lawyer nerd moment? Not just for, may I? Please. Yeah. a lawyer nerd moment, not just for may I please. May I please. So what I'm liking that I'm seeing from a lot of schools is that schools are ready to look for judicial warrants. This is really important and I'm going to put it out here right now because anybody who's listening to this should be told that ICE will often kind of show up with like their own little warrant

that they made for themselves. And it's not actually a warrant. It's just a document that they wrote for themselves saying, Hey, I have the right to talk to you in public. Well, guess what, ICE, you always have the right to talk to people in public. They don't have to talk to you. They have a right not to talk to you. Right.

But they make this document. And then when people say, Hey, do you have a warrant? They show them this document, which is guess what? Not a judicial warrant. Right. If somebody's saying they have the right to come into your school or your home or your business, and if they want to enter, they're like vampires. You have to either invite them in

or they have to have a judicial warrant that has like the name of a court on it. And it's actually signed by a judge. And it actually has this address of this location printed on it where the judge has signed and affirmed that. So what I want people to know is if ICE shows up at your house or your business and they're like, Hey, you have to let us in and you say, Hey, yeah, where's your warrant and they don't have a piece of paper signed by a judge.

Treat them like vampires. Right. There you go. Yeah. And if it's- The thing I'd also heard is don't even open your door, talk to them through the door and they will also break all kinds of rules. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. And they will, they're like vampires if vampires could arbitrarily just break the rules sometimes and be like, ah, fuck it. What are the consequences? I admit I'm not aware of the full scope of what vampires are capable of. Yeah. I think they're physically like they try to get to the door. Like vampires.

So basically I'm saying vampires are better than ice agents. I would also definitely rather have vampires at the door. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. What is something you think is overrated? Generally chat bots. Like people keep talking to me about how you're so great and these chat bots can like write stuff for you.

First of all, whenever somebody gives me a document that has some like chat bot authorship, it's very apparent. Sure. But also like the use cases I've had for, they lie all the time, uh, in the law, they're really bad cause they'll often just like make up cases that sound really plausible, that don't really exist and you're like torching millions of

gallons of water to have some very bland prose produced for you that probably is full of lies. It just doesn't feel like a good trade-off. Right. Wildly unreliable. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We were talking about this on last week's episode that the Google AI answer at the beginning,

I was trying to find out what scene happens 45 minutes into Jaws, a perfectly understandable question because back when the movie first came out, somebody died of a heart attack 45 minutes into Jaws, a perfectly understandable question. Because back when the movie first came out, somebody died of a heart attack 45 minutes into Jaws, or at least that's what the movie's marketing would have you believe. So I was like, what scene did it? I Googled that and Google's AI result gave me the most confident answer. It was like 45 minutes into Jaws. This is the most famous scene of the movie where a woman swimmer is attacked by a shark and it's the first time you

see the shark and Chief Brody says we're going to need a bigger boat. So they combined like four different parts of the... Yeah, they just combined all the different scenes of the movie and said that that was but so confidently No hint that they're just making shit up because they want to please daddy, which is what I make them call me But yeah, it's really a bad a bad product. Yeah. Yeah It seemed I was I I did a trivia night you know last night at a bar where one of the questions was one you could Google ahead. And the sort of long story short version is, I, we got the correct answer, even though we knew it was incorrect, because the AI summary at the very top said the incorrect

set of facts. And we were like, the trivia question writer who probably makes minimum wage ish, definitely didn't look past the AI summary. So whatever AI summary says is the answer, even though it is factually incorrect. Right. Yeah. You just got to hack one level higher of whatever the user is going to be doing. And so it's the worst. It's amazing at trivia night, going gonna be real bad in like emergency medicine. Right.

Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, I think it's like sort of proven that the fact that it's maximum use case seems to be cheating in college is, it is exactly that. It's like a bad college student worth of brain. Cheating to get to be like a C student in college. Yeah. Seems to be worth it.

Or not even brain, sorry, but just like Ojibwe-ish. Yeah. I mean, that DeepSeek, the Chinese AI product that is cratering the tech economy, as of yesterday at least, was like that one of the features that they have is rather than trying to do the mechanical Turk thing and like make it a magic trick behind the scenes, you're able to look at like how it shows between different answers and like what the logic was. Like it shows you under the hood because again, it's not a product that they're trying to

like make billions of dollars better. Better than it is. Yeah. And they're not trying to wow you with a magic trick. They're like, this is a thing we've researched that you using it helps us continue to research and make better. So that seems better, but yeah, I think probably it will still be like, and the answer is like right 60% of the time.

I don't know. 70%. Curated datasets. The ones that work from curated datasets where all the data coming in is screened, I'm good with like a better search interface, that's fine. Letting things loose on the internet, it's just. Yeah. Right.

Yeah, the famous not chock full of lies internet. Right, good dataset. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about executive orders. We'll be right back. Here at LifeKit, NPR self-help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life Kit podcast on iHeartRadio.

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And we're back. And so, Emily, you are a lawyer who understands how all of these various things that, you know, understood when Project 2025 was released, like what the implications of all these various things mean. Mean and now the executive orders have been issued The pens have been thrown into a cheering crowd like their fucking Lebron's arm bands but Just to like start not to go again like you're gonna have to work with me here and just pretend this is gonna be hard for you uh pretend That i'm an idiot who doesn't know exactly what executive orders are, how they work. Just for a hundred miles up, what are these executive orders that, and

like, we've been told there are limits. And like, that's why Biden and, you know, other Democrats weren't using them. And yet Trump came and like just dropped, flooded the zone with bullshit, flooded the zone with executive orders. And now it seems like there's a lot of action happening as a result of those executive orders. So just like trying to find the answer in all that madness.

Yeah, so I think first of all, we can start off with one thing that I think you're not an idiot if you don't know this. A lot of people don't know this, that an executive order is not the same as a law passed by Congress. Right. An executive order does have some legal force, but it's basically a thing that the president said the executive branch is going to do. And the president only has the ability to direct

certain people and agencies. So anything that's under the executive branch of our government. That's a lot of stuff. There's all those big administrative agencies that you hear about, or the Department of Justice, the Department of Health, the Department of Transportation. He can direct all of those agencies about how they're going to function, what policies they're going to use, how they're going to hire and fire.

He can do a lot of that direction through these executive orders. He cannot though, do a lot of the stuff that he's trying. I mean, he's kind of treating executive orders like a magic wand or a genie in a bottle, like trying to erase the 14th amendment on Martin Luther King Jr. day. Like that's what he's trying to do with some of these orders. And you can't, there's a reason that order got stopped in its tracks about 15 minutes after it left his desk, because there are limits to what executive orders can do. That being said, there's also a lot of avenues in which agencies have a ton of power.

So how he directs ICE to perform immigration enforcement, for example, or how he directs other agencies to address drug prices or how he, you know, directs environmental policy. All of that can be impacted by executive orders. Got it. And so the idea that like Biden could be, because like, so there's, looking at the past presidential terms that have used executive orders, I think in late December, Biden had issued about 160. Trump during his first full term did 220. FDR did 3,721, which I guess he was president for a number of years, but that's still, it's still a lot. So it seems like, I don't know.

I had just always heard, yeah, but we're not going to like use executive orders because it would set a bad precedent and ultimately like, you know, could be overturned, but it feels, you know, as, as somebody who's not a fan of these particular executive orders, like they're, I don't know, like when you're a sports fan and the other team does the thing you don't want them to do, that's usually the right thing, you know, it's like, oh, that, that makes me uncomfortable, therefore that's probably the, the, they're doing the thing that like we're everybody's like wishes they weren't doing, which the way that the

government currently runs seems like is the correct way for them to do all the authoritarianism that they have in mind. So I guess I'm just curious to hear, like, what do you think of this strategy? Like throwing a bunch of these at the wall and some of them being outside the purview of like a normal executive order and some of them being just like making a statement, essentially. But do you think that that is going to work? Do you think that, do you wish that more progressive presidential, if you can

imagine a more progressive presidential administration than this one, that more progressive presidential administrations like we should be wanting them to do? So we're at this really difficult crossroads, right? Which is that, first of all, the idea that Donald Trump would not do something because Biden refrained from doing it is hilarious to me. Like, oh, we wouldn't want to set a bad precedent because clearly if we don't do the bad thing, Donald Trump will also not do the bad thing. He's going to do the, he's going to, if you put a button in front of him, he's

going to push it, he's going to, if you put a button in front of him, he's going to push it. He's going to push the button until the button breaks. But also not just Donald Trump, like Mitch McConnell, Newt Gingrich, every Republican leader since I've been alive and I'm pretty old. It is just weird that it's, it's to me, it's so weirdly willful. It's like, oh, we wouldn't want this, we wouldn't want to break this norm against the team that only breaks norms. Yeah. That has absolutely no compunction about breaking norms and in fact seems to do it for fun. Well, they've also realized something, which is that whether something works has nothing

to do with whether it is supposed to work or legally structured to work. It has everything to do with whether you can get people to change their behavior based on what you're doing. Like if an executive order is issued, that's not supposed to work at all, but people take action based on it, nobody stops them, like then it worked. So I think there's a certain amount of like just trying stuff that we see now and we're going to see

continually for the next several years. I think Democrats could absolutely benefit from more just trying stuff. I mean, obviously, I don't condone trying to erase a constitutional amendment by exact by fiat. It's very silly. And no one should do that. But at the same time, I think there is a certain amount of creativity and a certain amount of precedent breaking activity that is appropriate. I think we were not designed to live in a, you know, this, this government was not designed to be fully static and frozen in the past.

Don't tell Clarence Thomas, he would absolutely tell you it's frozen in the past. But in general, like evolution and trying new stuff is good and probably Democrats could do more of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, FDR, like there, there was some stuff going on in his, during the time that he was president, I think, right? I have that, right? He, yeah.

He had, there was some stuff. And he, you know, he was willing to, he was just up there working things out, trying things out, you know? Like, is this something? What about this? Not to be... 3, 3721? Not to be a completely left-wing lunatic, but I will just point out that it does a little bit at this point seem like the Democrats did govern the way they wanted

to, um, and it's not a matter of not trying stuff, it's that they didn't want to try that stuff, right? They're not me. Big D Democrats are not interested in those good things. Yeah. It seems to me as an idiot. Me a complete idiot. It would seem that, yeah.

These ideas were raised. They did not happen over the past four years at times when a lot of unprecedented shit was happening. Bad stuff, not unprecedentedly fun good stuff. Let's talk about just the executive actions that are jumping out to you, Emily, as somebody who's kind of following this. I actually don't know if all of these are executive orders, but these are the ones that have kind of popped, have really popped for me. I don't know why I'm getting Hollywood executive here, but so we have the mass raids on undocumented people in the US and their families, which that is an executive order, right? Yeah, directing ice, directing ice enforcement. Yes.

Scrapping cancer research. Is that? That had to do a lot with freezing the NIH and freezing funding, firing, firing, the purchasing of supplies for research, which resulted in a lot of labs having to let people go, stop their research. They don't have personnel or supplies. Like you can't do major medical research without money. Sure. And what's really terrible is that by interrupting a lot of the work of these labs, we're setting that research back. It's not like a lot of this work can just be sort of

like picked right back up where you left off six months from now. And it's not just cancer, it's Alzheimer's research. It's like a huge quantity of research that makes the United States a valuable place to be because of its medical advancement capacity. Yeah, we just threw that in the trash and lit it on fire. What is the, not that I think there's great reasoning behind any of this shit, but like, I'm very, I am confused how that even ties into any agenda or like any set of, you know, politics,

like any political posturing is like, we actually think we should see what cancer has in mind. We hang out with any MAGA people lately. Right. Because, I mean, what I hear a lot of is that they believe that all of these researchers are like, it all comes back to Fauci and it's all corrupt and it's training the swamp. And we're like, I don't think anybody's given a lot of critical thought to what if, what if the

researchers are not secretly corrupt oligarchs, but what if they actually are people who are poised to save lives, perhaps lives within your family sometime in the next few years, if we let them. I think there's just this huge perception of corruption in the medical community, and I'm not sure where that comes from. Certainly, I could talk about it in context related to medicine and health insurance, but when it comes to like hating on cancer researchers, I don't get it,

but it's a thing that the MAGA folks seem to do. Yeah. Okay. Honestly, and the kind of toughest thing is like all this data is going to be so entangled with our shitty healthcare system that it's not even going to be clear that as a direct outcome of this, like life expectancy or health outcomes are worse in the United States because they're already so much worse than the rest of the like, you know, equivalently rich world that like we're never going to be able to prove, prove until like, you know, equivalently rich world that like,

we're never going to be able to prove, prove until like, I said this yesterday until polio is back, but like, even then. With any of this shit, I feel like we're in a really bad position to make those cases because of how the media. General healthcare system. How bad the general healthcare is, but just all of like, they've been very disappointed in the New York Times. I mean, it's hard to prove a negative, but if the New York Times wanted to, and I'm with you that they don't want to at all,

I mean, you could look at over the next few years how many new pharmaceuticals are patented, how many new treatments, medical devices. Like, you could look at patents, you could look at drugs hitting the market, you could look at requests for FDA approval, you could look at all, you could look at new techniques being published in medical journals, you could look at the rate at which US researchers are publishing generally. I mean, there's all of these metrics that we expect to see slow down when you defund medical research.

Right. Yeah. The other ones I have, I have, pulling the US out of the world health organization, recognizing only two genders, turning DEI into like, not just removing funding for DEI, but like, you know, saying that people need to report anyone they see doing a DEI, I guess, is the idea. By the way, I did hear somebody pointed out that Roy Cohn came from McCarthyism. So like that, like Roy Cohn was worked and like learned under McCarthy. So it does make sense that there's this like direct line from McCarthyism to Trump.

Well, it's not just in the federal government. A lot of people are talking about that EO, like it's just amongst federal employees, right? Like if the guy at the cube over next to you is seeming a little too diverse, you better report. But it's also giving these agencies a directive to select up to nine entities in the private sector that they would like to investigate for compliance. So it's also poising the federal government to engage in,

and we're already seeing the impact in like cowardly big companies scrubbing any mention of diversity and ending any diversity programs unless cowardly companies refusing to do so, which is kind of cool to see. But it's McCarthyism writ large in the DEI context. I think also we're going to see that in the immigration context with like pressure to turn people over and compliance pressures of all kinds.

So yeah, they're absolutely trying to create a society in which people are afraid of their neighbors and afraid to be snitched on by their colleagues. For being too diverse. Yeah. Or liking diversity too much. Yeah. Yeah.

The person is way too into diversity. It's like actually, like I am curious the speed for which this will have repercussions. I mean, the immigration thing is like, if that actually happened, would actually tank the agricultural like industry. Right. So like, you know, if the Trump people were mad at the price of eggs, then like, what the fuck is... I'm just like curious, like if anything will ever... I'm in California, on our local news,

we're seeing like fruit sitting in the fields, it's orange season, like nothing. Like it's understandable, it's especially understandable because when you're not inside a building, you don't have the same fourth amendment protections. It's actually a huge issue we see, for example, unhoused people don't have the same rights against search and seizure because they don't have a home which someone would need a warrant to enter. So they don't get this particular constitutional protection.

If you're in a field, again, ICE can come up and go after anybody they want. There's no structure that they would need a judge to give them permission to enter. So agricultural jobs are particularly vulnerable. And we as a country are particularly vulnerable to like not having food we can afford as a result. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just the unintended or yeah, well, the food like disaster would be an unintended even for them consequence of like, you know, enforcing immigration in the way they want to enforce it. Right. I'm just curious, like, what the fuck will actually happen?

How could it be unintended? I mean, that's a question I have is like, it's the most foreseeable possible. The very first thing everybody's like, hey, so I know you only understand profitability. Just a quick FYI here on that. I mean, I guess the speculation would be it just creates an even more scared or oppressed class of undocumented worker. Yeah. I mean, the idea that they talk about a lot that like, yeah, you know, people criticize how expensive this

is going to be, but it's going to lead to like a lot of like self deportation and you know, that what that usually means is that people just don't can't work because when you like show up to work, then like you're, you know, putting yourself in a position to be taken in. Yeah. But so that's, yeah, it just, it feels like that is going to be a first, like it's not going to be a down the road thing. It's like a thing that is going, like based on the things that we are already seeing of, you know, these like raids that Dr.

Phil is live streaming, we're going to see the results immediately because nobody's going to see the results immediately because nobody's going to want to fucking put themselves in a position to be arrested and like, you know, treated cruelly. Yeah. So I don't know, like I, others reversing climate change, uh, bringing back the death penalty, not reversing climate change, reversing climate change actions and declaring an, uh, the emergency is actually how little gas we're pulling out of the ground. These are all things

that I had identified as like, man, the executive orders seem to work in this case in the worst way possible. Do like what is that? Are there any of these that you're like that, that one is actually going to be challenged and easy to overturn before it does too much damage or is this all just kind of a four alarm fire territory? So I'm really interested to see what happens because a lot of people like to act like the law is a real thing and, and you know, the law will save us. The law doesn't support this and the law, you know, but the law is a real thing. And, and, you know, the law will save us. The law doesn't support this and the law, you know, but the law is just a bunch of humans in rooms.

Like some of the humans get to wear a special dress and sit up higher, but which humans these cases are brought in front of will matter a great deal because Trump worked very hard during his last term to put a lot of judges in place who are heavily aligned with the ideology we see in Project 2025. In the past, we saw a judiciary which took their responsibility as neutral arbiters way more seriously, and they would have been like really embarrassed to do something nakedly

partisan. That cultural safeguard is gone. And I don't think we realized the degree to which it was a cultural norm, a cultural safeguard holding the judiciary in a neutral position. It's toast. So some of these, I will point out, you know, the death penalty one is terrible for innumerable reasons. One, generally Americans don't support the death penalty anymore. So this isn't really beating any voters that are demanding this. Two, we get it wrong a lot. It's irreversible. Three, this EO contains, all of these EOs contain ways for the government to reach more deeply into the lives and actions of

private actors and the state. So here, this EO is directing the federal government to try to exert more control over state and local prosecutors and AGs. Here's why that's a big deal. In the federal system, Joe Biden, to his credit, commuted the sentences of everyone who's on federal death row. So Donald Trump doesn't have anybody he can kill right now, as much as he would like to.

Oh, no. And good on President Biden for doing that. 87%, roughly, that's probably an old stat, but over 85% of people in prison are there on state and local cases. So you can see that like the federal government only comprises a very small minority of people who are impacted by criminal justice decisions generally.

So what does this executive order do? It pushes the federal government to start going after the folks who actually control use of the death penalty, who are state AGs and state and local prosecutors. And that bothers me for many reasons. One of which is, it's completely contrary to the omnipresent state's rights argument that we hear all the time. Like local people should decide what's right

in their locality. Oh, unless in your locality, you don't want the government to kill people, in which case you don't get to decide what's right for your locality. Your judgment't want the government to kill people. In which case you don't get to decide what's right for your locality. Your judgment is subsumed by a huge and empowered federal government. I thought we didn't like big government. No, no, no.

We like big government when it's making the government kill people. So that's, that's where we are on this. Yeah. It's not great. And your point about it being unpopular. Like that, that was the thing. Just, Alicair Katsanis had a thread on Twitter this weekend, just about this New York Times article from last week titled,

Support for Trump's Policies Exceeds Support for Trump. And this feels like it's the way I'm seeing a lot of people in the New York Times and like in that world respond where they're like, people might not like the man but they're approved. They might think his methods are too harsh, but he's getting things done and it's in line with their... And I think what they're referring to is a very specifically worded question that suggests that they want people who are undocumented deported. But there's also like three questions that are just worded slightly differently that suggests that there's actually a super majority of people who don't want that.

But they, I don't know, there just seems to be an urge to like, be like, what he's doing is like not that out of line with like what people want. And I don't think it's true. And like what again, they're only focusing on like two of these executive orders, two of these policies. They're like really having to work hard with the polling and the wording of the polling to like make it seem like people are in support of these policies. And then they're also ignoring huge swaths of these executive orders that are wildly unpopular for their cruelty. And so this is a great thing. I'm so glad you brought this up because so when we look at Project 2025,

there's a couple of big themes that emerge. One is that they're very terrified of boyfriends and they think there's nothing more terrible than a mom, a single mom having a boyfriend. There's a whole fun passage I beg you to read with just like control F boyfriend. Yeah. In project 2025, it's a ride. But beyond their fear of boyfriends, they really don't like information. They don't like people having any information and they would rather the government not gather any information. Because if you gather any information, people might get a hold of it because governments do have to have a certain level of transparency.

This goes totally to what you're talking about. The way you can create false informational worlds is by limiting the amount of information people actually have. Like here you have a poll which doesn't reveal to the reader that, oh, in like the next three questions, it turns out, people don't actually like this policy. They just only liked it when it was worded a very specific way. And that's really the thing about polling, right? Is that like the answer you get from people depends enormously on how you ask them a given question. But in the EOs we're seeing, a ton of these clauses in the EOs are getting rid of forms of tracking information in government so that people will no longer have access to, for example, what the demographic makeup of our government even is, or of our armed forces, or of, you know, what the impact of various policies and programs is.

Health tracking in particular, like how much are we at danger from bird flu versus something else? They would really prefer not to collect any data. Because when you don't collect data, you can control people's opinion on policy a lot more through things like the framing of the question, because people don't have a real informational basis for making decisions. In addition to that, there's a whole separate EO on restricting the government's ability to go

after misinformation and disinformation, because to stop misinformation and disinformation. Because to stop misinformation and disinformation would impinge on the free speech rights of the people who would like to distribute misinformation. Like, lest the government stop people from lying to you. It's all this theme of like the government no longer wants you to have good information under Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that seemed like the whole Mark Zuckerberg statement was all about the way in which he used, that's like people's opinions and free speech, but he was only talking about people who support Donald Trump's free speech.

Yeah. Very specific definition of that. It's very strange, but it's not just the tech CEOs, it feels like these journalistic institutions are just like currently really not up to the task of like dealing with what's happening right now. I can't tell if they're into it or scared. I can't tell which it is. I think they're into it. I think they've had decades to not be into it and they have never shown themselves to not be into it.

Yeah. I mean, I will say again, I know I keep beating this drum, but it feels ever nearer to an actual like facts don't care about your feelings reckoning on just like the nature of reality. I'm just like, I know, I keep saying it but it's, the things they believe are largely not true. So like, what is it going to be just like made in the USA starts to not become the gold

standard? Is it going to be like, you know, fucking like Beijing University is where you go instead of Harvard? Like, it will be something like the rest of the world doesn't have to play by these rules and they eventually won't. Like what is it going to be? I'm just like, I guess I hope I'll be alive when the fucking other shoe drops on this whole shit. So, I don't know. Sorry. Just a little panic here. I feel like it might be sooner than I was expecting prior to a couple weeks ago.

But yeah, I don't know. It's, it's, it's, uh, is there anything, Emily, that is making you hopeful besides teachers, which I think is a great example, like teachers being willing to fight for their kids, for their students. Any other places you're seeing hope? One thing I would say is that so much of this is local, right? Like I've been watching online as like finding videos of a local neighborhood watch, like scaring off ICE agents from their neighborhood and schools not letting them in and, you know,

ordinary people protecting each other. I also think that this has the potential for a huge informational awakening for Americans in a certain sense. I mean, I'm thinking actually, this is so dumb, but do you remember when like TikTok was gone for five minutes and everybody got on red note? Yeah.

And suddenly Americans were like, wait a minute, you get fresh groceries for how much in China? Like they were like amazed to like the fantastic Chinese grocery hauls. Americans have managed to become, even without a Trump branded isolationism, Americans have for decades been deprived of opportunities to really get to know the international community, to travel, to learn about the world, to expand their horizons. And I think that in that moment you describe, Andrew, of like watching China surpass us in renewable energy

and get to a clean and low cost energy solution while we're still like shoveling coal into furnaces. I think that's gonna be, I hope, a really healthy awakening for Americans. I'm terrified on the healthcare front of the number of lives it could cost us to learn this particular lesson. But I guess I'm placing a lot of my hope in great organizations that are willing to put up a fight,

in ordinary people who are not naturally compliant and steal themselves to say no. Even against, it's really hard to say no to somebody who says, look, I have this piece of paper that lets me come into your home. It's really hard to say, nah, a judge didn't sign that paper. I'm not opening the door.

It's hard to do, but I have faith in the stubbornness of ordinary Americans. And I hope, I hope that if we are able to emerge from this without falling prey to the informational lockdown, if we're able to retain our ability to get information, we're gonna come out of this a much better society. That is the question, right?

That's where, like, it feels like things must be, like, the way I was talking about, like, it being a sporting thing where you're like, oh, this is the thing that I don't want my opponent to do and they're doing it. And that is probably smart on their part. Like, that's my question thinking through for them is like, that's going to be the next frontier is like, okay, so how do we stop the information? Like, and it sounds like they're working on that with regards to the studies,

but just in terms of the day-to-day social media, I'm sure that, you know, beyond the TikTok ban, I'm sure that's coming too, right? Wouldn't this be great? I mean, Zucker, I mean, bless Zuckerberg's little heart. He's my college classmate. Wow. Cool guy. Cool guy, actually. Facebook is old.

Like, I'm old. Facebook's old. Like, I also think there's a real chance that, like, we might disconnect from our social media addictions in a really different way during these next few years. That could be really, I mean, once you realize that something you've been using as a resource to learn about people around you and like what's happening

in your community is actually just full of junk. Yeah. Yeah. I go on Twitter so much less now, because it's just like so full of like clickbaity, or anger. Worship. Yeah, exactly. And if this disconnects us from that and we go back of like clickbaity, or anger, like just. Horseshoe. Yeah, exactly.

And if this disconnects us from that, and we go back to other forms of informational engagement and information sharing, or we create new forms, that'd be great too. Yeah. Yeah. I did want to also say a thing about the local, like to sort of tag what you were saying, Emily. Like even, you know, just like doing a small amount

of mutual aid, carting shit around during the fires. And I mean, the, like, even, you know, just like doing a small amount of mutual aid carting shit around during the fires. And I mean, the fires are still ongoing. But it and just thinking about California, I know I've said this on the show closer to when the election was, but like, you know, liberal ass California couldn't even outlaw slavery. So like, there's still plenty of work that you can do in your community that will materially move things forward and make things better. That however futile like and however much damage is done, and we're watching the repercussions

of federal government, you can still fix things repair stuff, help people in a way that is material in your community. And you should fucking do it. Because to do it, even though you're helping people, you're doing it for yourself because you're gonna need all this stuff too. There's a really good lever for that that nobody thinks about.

And I wanna put it out there for people to consider. All of these culture war things, the way they get enforced is through prosecution. That's why Donald Trump wants to exert so much control over local prosecutors is because a lot of this enactment will have to take place in the form of criminal prosecution. Public defenders, man, public defenders are so under considered as a sort of last bulwark against totalitarianism.

They are the people who are fighting against, you know, the types of detainers that can lead to deportation. They are the people that are often first to find out when an individual is in jeopardy from their government. They are the people best equipped to legally intervene. For many people, a public defender is the only lawyer they're going to have in their life.

They're going to have one lawyer, and it's probably the free lawyer provided to them paid by the government to fight the government. And there's 5,900 public defender agencies in this country. Most of them are like not particularly funded or attended to, but ordinary people can go to their County Board of Supervisors meeting and say, hey, how are you resourcing my public defender? If my family needs a lawyer, like who is that lawyer

and what support are they getting? And how well are they being paid? And like, what experts do they have access to? And what labs are you going to let them use in a serious case? I think that it's a moment now for people to recognize that public defenders are their counsel, and they should demand better. Yeah. And that's, you work on that, like the executive, you're the executive director of Partners for Justice, which sounds like that's kind of a focus for you guys, right? Yeah, most of what we do is we help public defenders do more stuff beyond the legal matter.

So like recognizing that a court case can completely upend a person's life, cost them their housing, their job, like access to their kids, access to medicine. We basically create really strong interdisciplinary services inside public defense, a little bit of mutual aid, a little bit of services, you know, a lot of community networking so that people can walk away from a case with their life as intact as possible.

It's very, very pro safety stuff. A lot of the stuff we address are underlying drivers of crime. It's also very decarceral. We've eliminated over 5,000 years of incarceration in just a few years, because turns out when somebody is doing really well in the community, a judge is less likely to send them to prison.

But I'm talking about more than that, like more than just what we do, like the daily litigation of public defenders is going to protect a lot of people who are being prosecuted for putting the wrong book on the library shelf or seeking an abortion or being trans. I mean, the lawyer they're going to have is probably a public defender. So even beyond my work, it's a great place for people to dedicate their focus.

Yeah. And if you're just a citizen talking to your government, a great place to find that money is in the insane police budget. Just throwing it out there. Maybe some of those funds should be taken from the police. I don't know. You know, there's a great study on... 33rd helicopter? I don't know. I'm just putting it out there. A tank? Yeah. There's a great study on what really... Well, there's a lot of great studies on what really creates safety. And actually, if anybody cares

on the Partners for Justice website, we have a little tab that says evidence, and I gathered a ton of these studies there if anybody wants data on safety, but there's a wonderful overview we did on how environmental design creates safety. And it turns out that if you want to lower the homicide rate, you are better off planting trees than hiring more cops.

I mean, street lighting, trees. And that's not only on homicides, like buildings with more greenery, like more beautifully greened buildings are not only less likely to be burglarized, they also have less domestic violence inside the building. So all these things we could spend money on that might work better than more subway cops playing Candy Crush.

Yeah. I know this is not the way the directionality arrow goes, but also less domestic violence if there's fewer cops. Right. Just throwing it out there. Could be. I actually don't know if that's the direction that the causality is. Those guys are bad guys. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Here at LifeKit, NPR's self-help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful

lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the LifeKit podcast on iHeartRadio. Ever wonder what it's like to be on the phone with an NFL general manager as you finalize the biggest contract in NFL history? I'm AJ Stevens, vice president of client strategy at Athletes First, where we've negotiated $1.4 billion

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stories behind these massive negotiations and the relationships the NFL superstars like Dak Prescott, Tua Tunga-Valliloa, and Jordan Love have with their agents at Athletes First. For the first time ever, the agents who orchestrate these deals are sharing the details of the negotiations and everything that led up to their clients signing on the dotted line. Listen to the Athletes First Family podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out. We want to raise awareness and we want this to stop. Wow, very powerful.

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He's just spinning the web for you to get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated. Together, we're going to expose him and the rotten industry he works in. It's not just me. We're an army in comparison to him.

Listen to The Bunny Trap on the iHeartRadio app, he works in. It's not just me. We're an army in comparison to him. Listen to The Bunny Trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Tomer Cohen, LinkedIn's Chief Product Officer. If you're just as curious as I am about the way things are built, the insights behind what it takes to create a world-renowned product, then tune in to my podcast, Building One. There's so much to learn, like how Patagonia innovates with its supply chain. We had to go out to farmers and convince them it was really damn hard.

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Listen to Building One on the iHeartRadio app, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back and we do have to get to one piece of legislation that's giving us hope and That is a Connecticut bill that would force movie theaters to admit when the movie actually starts when listening when listing movie times that you know, it would have the here's when the previews start but here's when the movie actually starts like functionally, which I don't know. It like people are saying that it's like, I don't know if these are industry plants, but I've read people being like, well, it's easy to like know when it is just like, don't show up for 20 minutes, but I've definitely like, it's a moving target.

Like I showed up at Barbie 20 minutes late because I assumed that movie would have so many trailers before it because it was like a massive hit. But it was like it started five minutes after the showtime because they were just trying to like get as much turnover as possible. Like so they were trying to cram as many showtimes as possible because so many people were going to see it. And then I've been to movies where like, I don't know, I, I'm a, let's get there in time for the previews type of person. And I was even just like, you know, 45 minutes later, like looking at my phone being like, how has the movie still not started? So it feels wild sometimes. And this, yeah, just, I don't know.

It's, there's so few pieces of like, I don't know, any, just ideas that seem to be focused on like helping people, helping people's lives be more comfortable. Like I'm, I'm putting this in the category of the congestion pricing in New York, the tri-state area really coming through for the consumers. But I don't know. What are you guys' thoughts here? I also love the trailers. I was going to say this would create pressure

potentially to have better trailers, more entertaining trailers, which would probably put pressure on having more and better entertaining movies. But what I really think is going to happen is it's going to put pressure on for like $2 extra to your ticket, they won't run a lower third of the ad concurrently with the movie. Yeah, movies with ads. Yeah, I suspected that's actually what's going to happen. They freebie the movie, theater model. They turn off the part of your neural link that just

puts the trailer in your field of vision while it's going. Yeah. Man, that got dark faster than I expected it to. That is what 100 percent is going to happen. I am all for more information. People have information to make informed choices. I could also say there's so much about the movie going experience that could be improved to help theaters do better.

You know, when I moved to New York from California and I found out that people were wearing garbage bags to the movie theater to not get bed bugs, I was like, you know, that's like, we don't do that in California. We don't, we don't need to wear a hazmat suit actually. So I, if, if what you're relying on to keep a theater in business is people being disgruntled as they unwillingly sit through trailers they didn't want to be at, probably not a sustainable business model anyway.

Right. Get a reclining chair, serve people some steak tips, I don't know. Yeah, I actually don't like movie theaters that do that. That are too horrible. I don't like movie theaters. I don't like the ones that are like, we're actually a restaurant and you have to just deal

with waiters walking in front of you. I'm more of a old school popcorn and Sarah Patch kids person. How did you feel about the Alamo Drafthouse? Like when they got really, really strict and everybody loved it and their business went through the roof because they were like kicking people out for whispering? Yeah, I guess I don't mind that as much. I guess I just haven't had like a great Alamo Drafthouse experience.

Maybe that's it. I just need to, I don't know. There's something about the movie going experience where I just like want to not have to order things in the middle of it. I want that drug to kick in where I'm just in the hands of the director or whatever. I like being in the hands of the cinema and then a waiter goes by to your neighbor, is like, the queso is really hot. Be careful.

Just delightful that I remember where you are. I mean, I will say a little bit the counterpoint because any fool could watch a pretty good movie at home these days. Yeah. I do think the mass of humanity is what you want when you go to a theater these days. So just make it fucking crazy pants. I don't care. Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Just anything to get in a room with other people and watch a movie. Go nuts, guys. I'm open to everything, but not things that are, again, I mean, it came up with the AI with tricking people. It seems like it's such a big and accepted part of capitalism these days. So we're just like, yeah, we just got to get better at tricking people. And then this law is coming up and people are like, if we stop letting us trick people, then we lose a big chunk of like revenue for, I guess, because I guess movie theaters are paid for showing.

Well, this was the question, right? Or did this get looked up? I was kind of speculating on this prior to recording, I think. But this happened this weekend. I was talking to my friend in the theater. And I was just like, which direction does the revenue go when a movie theater plays a trailer, which is an ad, but it's also an ad for a product that they sell at the place where they're showing it. Right. And I literally have no idea. I don't know if, you know, Warner

plays Alamo Drafthouse. Alamo Drafthouse maybe pays Warner that doesn't make that much sense or no one. I thought I got packaged in a distribution deal with the feature. Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's part of the movie. This is not from the AI answer. I'm skipping past the AI overview to a article from How Stuff Works.

Shout out to the old How Stuff Works. Traditionally, production companies do not pay to show trailers before movies. Rather, producers and theaters benefit from an exchange of services. Theaters get to screen their chosen feature films, and in return, producers and studios get to show their chosen trailers. So they get to decide what happens. I'm so happy I remember that from my long ago job writing movie guidelines. Yeah.

But then, so like Sony owns Draft House, could they force AMC to play Draft House ads in front of a Sony movie? Probably. Why not? Yeah, I'm sure they could. I, uh, our writer, JM was pointing out, uh, JM McNabb was pointing out that this is a long distance we've come from. a long distance we've come from. Do you guys remember when Meet Joe Black had like a noticeable spike in ticket sales because the trailer for the Phantom Menace was attached to it,

like happened before it. And people were just going to buying tickets for Meet Joe Black just to watch the trailer for the Phantom Menace and then like leave it in the theater. I mean, I'll watch a movie trailer on YouTube. I'll watch an ad that also has an ad break within it. We're stupid as a culture. That's right. Or I am stupid as a human being, I guess. No, I've been bothered by the same thing.

Every time I go to the trailer and the ad starts up, I'm like, but I'm already- I'm watching an ad on purpose. This was consensual and now it's not. Exactly. Well, Emily, such a pleasure having you. Where can people find you, follow you, all that good stuff? So on pretty much everything done Twitter or X on blue sky, on Instagram,

I'm at Galvan Almanza. That's my last name. And you can also check out Partners for Justice at partnersforjustice.org. All right. And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I'm reading the new Murakami novel.

It's really good. It's for people who are are into Japanese surrealist fiction. It takes place in an imaginary walled city where people are deprived of their shadows. Escapism is good right now. Go dive into a book and live in a different world for three weeks at a time. I'd hard recommend.

That motherfucker loves or hates shadows. I can't remember which. I mean, he's mean to shadows. He's like bad things are happening. The shadows are essentially enslaved in this. There's a lot of shadows in Hard Boiled Wonderland and the end of the world. This is the sequel to that. This is, this picks up.

Yeah, I wasn't going to go into a total nerd conversation for your audience, but yes, if you read Hard Boiled Wonderland and the end of the world, this picks right up where that left off, same walled city, same unicorns, same problematic marginalization of shadows. Yeah. Weird, weird relationships to women and food.

Ears, yeah. Ears and shadows, there you go. Andrew, where can people find you? Is there a work of media you've been enjoying? Oh, man. Just Andrew T. Doesn't really matter where, who cares? I guess the last thing that I haven't recommended on Daily Like I Said in some form is I'm rereading

a book by China Mieville called Last Days of New Paris, which is sort of, I forgot, but it's sort of a spiritual companion to the other. I think I recommended, or I said I was enjoying, Between Two Fires. But Last Days of New Paris is another book of just like rebels wandering around a fucked up version of France. And this one is, speaking of surrealists, it's in a parallel universe, Nazi-occupied Paris, but all the surrealist work of art have come to life and are these enormous monsters wandering around with seemingly no aim. That's cool.

It's real depressing. The one thing that really has been fucking me up on it is I've been trying to read from a physical book at night without my phone and my knowledge of art history is not good enough. So there's a lot of terms of literal art being dropped that I am not clear if they are science fiction terms that he invented for the book or actual art terms. So that's very confusing.

Yeah, exactly. No, but it's just all these like casual name drops and like, Yeah. slang truncations of like famous surrealist works of art that I'm just like, I don't know if there's a monster you made up. I don't know if it's real. There's a photo of it.

Dude, I don't even know anymore, bro. I'm so confused. Anyway, it is a good book and I read it a long time ago, but I should not be reading it without a phone, even though that's what I'm trying to do. It's going very slowly. Godspeed to you, sir. Thanks. Amazing.

You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien on Blue Sky Jack OB, the number one. I've been enjoying, I watched a movie because I heard that Stanley Kubrick called it the most terrifying movie he'd ever seen. So I watched over the weekend The Vanishing, which is a Dutch film that is real fucked up and highly recommend. A real compelling, interesting watch. Yes, I felt compelled to go a little high brow because- This is a bit of a pretentious ass series of recommendations.

I know, real pretentious, but also... I have recommended a bunch of trash TV the last couple of months. Yeah, this is not a super challenging movie, as long as you're willing to read the subtitles. Boo. Yeah, boo, fuck subtitles. All right, you can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram.

We have a Facebook fan page and our website, DailyZeitgeist.com. You can go to the episode wherever you're listening to this and check out the description of the episode you're listening to and you will find the footnotes, which is where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. We also link off to a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles is out and when Miles is out, we like to ask super producer Justin Connor, is there a song that you think people might enjoy? Yeah, this is one of the few times where I don't have like a long flowery description of the track. I'm going the opposite of pretentious to counterbalance the recommendations.

But this is a really fun track. It's called Wiggy by Puerto Rican rapper Young Miko. And it's it's just really fun. It's got a deeply resonant elastic like 808 bass and the sporadic rhythm changes in the top end of the percussion. Her delivery is just full of swagger and it's amazing because she's bilingual and I don't know what she's saying but it sounds extremely confident and it puts me in a good mood. So this again is Wiggy by Young Mikko and you can find that song in the footnotes. Footnotes.

The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us this morning. We're back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we'll talk to you all then. Bye. Here at LifeKit and PR Self-Help Podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits

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