The Daily Zeitgeist - Extra! Extra! Ouija’ll About It!10.28.25

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

In episode 1954, Jack and Miles are joined by host of Otherworld, Jack Wagner, to discuss… Ouija Episodes, The Power Of The Unconscious Mind and more! LISTEN: Distant Land by MadlibSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jack, in your paranormal studies, have you encountered any Matilda's, any people with Matilda Powers? Ooh, that is a great question. I mean, there's been Matilda adjacent people, but honestly, if I heard about a Matilda, if somebody came to me claiming to me Matilda, I think I'll be skeptical of them right off the bat. Yeah. Right, right, right.

Read so good that you can move things with your mind. come on exactly chocolate cake thrown at your teacher or whatever yeah wasn't that didn't she do that yeah I mean there was a cake I know that somebody made it was forced to eat a cake she's like starts out

with the standard gateway crime of spilling water on her teacher but then it moves on to chocolate cake and then writing spooky message on the board with her brain that's a good one I mean that cake scene it was supposed to be torturous but

I feel like I can handle it. I know. One of the best-looking cakes in cinema history. I know. Why they make it look so good? Yeah, it's delicious looking. I don't know. I feel like just food and movies always looks good.

Like the, when in Jurassic Park, when they get back into the visitor center, that jello? That jello. Bro, all of it. The ice cream. He's burnt-up fucking hands.

Just, oh, it's just the way they're fucking eating. Their way they're feasting, yeah. Yeah. And I think what, those kids are gone for like fucking 10 hours at that point, right? It's in numerous dates, I think. But anyway, that's fine.

I was about to eat Dr. Grant. I was so hungry out there. Bro, you were gone for three hours. I'll tell you one bit of food that didn't look like it tastes good in Jurassic Park. Samuel L. Jackson. That guy's smoking so much. I bet the dinosaur spit him right out. I thought you were going to say that pile of shit.

Nobody was checking for that. This is an I-Heart podcast. Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist, my new true crime podcast from Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players. It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the Nimrods who almost pulled it off.

It was kind of like the perfect storm in a sewer. That was dumb. Do not follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends, like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg, to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high?

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now But my goal here is for you to listen And feel a little better about the future Listen and subscribe to here we go again With Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts I live below a cult leader and I fear I've angered her Wait a minute, Sophia. How do you know she's a cult leader?

Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast So we'll find out soon. This person writes My neighbor has been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals, and now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder. I think they might be part of a cult? Hold up, a real-life cult?

And what is a dirt ritual? No clue, Dakota. Find out how it ends. Listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Tick podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets.

Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the Internet, and welcome. Welcome to Season 412 Episode 2 of Dirtyly Zite, guys!

This is a production of iHara Radio. It's a podcast where you take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. And this week, that shared consciousness got cobwebs in it. The spookiest thing that anything can have. Talking about virgins. Talking about virgins. Don't light a candle if you're a virgin in Salem. Talking about yesterday's episode in Hocus Pocus,

how everybody keeps roasting that 14-year-old boy for being a virgin, including his six-year-old sister I have not seen that movie in a while apparently Oh yeah I hadn't either I saw it when I was a kid And I was just like this standard He's being blamed as a 14 year old

As a 14 year old for being a virgin By children Like that's crazy And then by a ghost of a Puritan It's like even I think it's weird That this guy hasn't fucked yet Famously the Puritans would not think that Hence the name

That's right Although there is a I talked about this thing yesterday that was up. There is a school of thought that thinks that the Puritans had so many rules about not having sex because they were fucking so much. Right. I can see that

eyewitness testimony. I hate to state the obvious. These don't fucking public anymore. Yes. That's funny, that Puritans name Thackeray binks. I was thinking like, what a fucking dumb name, dude. Oh, come on man, they ate with that. Thackeray binks is like fucking, that's like

George Lucas level bullshit name. I forgot to, I forgot to bring this up with The actor who plays the kid Max, I think, the main kid, he's now just like in a, like, he's just like a weed growing. Yeah, weed guy. Hell, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's better than the fate of a lot of 90s actors where they like,

yeah, yeah, right, shot up a gas station or something. It's like, I feel like half of the people I saw in movies that I liked as a kid and are in jail now. I mean, the Power Rangers. Oh, God. Like, half the Power Rangers, you don't want to open that Wikipedia up and see it written. in the past tense, you know what I mean? No, yeah.

Although his is, by the way, it says he was an actor, and I'm like, uh-oh. But he's not a good. He's fully on weed, dude. He's just trying to get this weed company off the ground. Exactly. No, just respect. He's probably making so much more money in the weed game. I don't know, based on looking, I was, I was, I was trolling his IG did not seem that

popping. Yeah. Okay. Well, at least, I'm hoping he's happy. The update was that he still keeps in touch with some of the people who are in Hocus, Pocus with him. That's like one of the... And here's what we know of him now.

Because they kill it at the cons. They go do signings and shit. Yeah, they want to meet him. Here's something about Hocus Pocus I could share. By all means. I remember being very attracted to Sarah Jessica Parker's character in it when I was a kid. What's wrong with you? Why?

What was going on? But I've never had that experience with any other Sarah Jessica Parker role. Yeah. And I don't even know if I realized it was her. You know what I'm saying? I think it was the thicker eyebrows. You know what I mean? Maybe.

She didn't have as thick an eyebrow. Yeah, that was going to be my guess, too, the thicker eyebrows. It's like specifically the witch version of her and no other role. I mean, I followed her, I've her body of work for many years. I was saying it's one of her better performances. Like, she gives a great performance. She fully embodies that kind of dizzy, silly, silly, off-balance character. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. We have, do people give their flowers of Kathy Najeemy enough? Not nearly enough. She's doing, like, a weird mouth thing in that one where she, like, only has control of one side of her mouth. Never explained. Just a bit of business for herself to be doing. Kathy and Nijmi's insane pull. I don't know if you guys have IMDB in front of you or if you just have encyclopedic knowledge. No, again, when she was in Sister Act.

Yeah, she killed it in Sister Acts. Never for you, Kathy and Jimmy and Sister Acts. But, yeah, there's something about Sarah Jessica Parker's makeup, even though, like, it's pretty, it's not like she's wearing prosthetics or anything. But I watched it with my family yesterday, and my wife, who's, like, very IMDB-brained and, like, has, like, facial recognition technology, and her brain was surprised that it was Sarah Jessica Parker. Yeah, never happens. Can't catch her sleeping on. It's the darker eye makeup and eyebrows, I'm telling you. Anyways, it is Tuesday, October 28th, 2025.

Oh, shit. Yeah. Three days from the spookiest day of the year. Oh, hell yeah, dude. But, of course, what are we celebrating? Oh, it's also a national. first responders day, national internal medicine day. Wow, very health

conscious safety. And also National Chocolate Day. That feels more in line with the week of Halloween. It's National Chocolate Day. That feels fake. There's so many. There's like 40 National Chocolate Day. I was going to say, I feel like there's a lot too many. Yeah, yeah. Maybe to tie those things together, a block from where I'm recording is a place

that I think is very strange. It's a dispensary. It says dispensary, but it's a chocolate dispensary. They do not sell weed. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, dispensary. what you're talking about it's and it's a place uh i think we've brought it up on the show too before you have been on jack um but like the people in there like i've heard the owner really hates that people think there's weed in there even that's a really funny type of guy to be

to start business you're in los angeles and your business says dispensary on it it's like oh why would you think we sell edibles are these all edibles i mean yes they're all edible it's like the guy starts a root beer store and the scientist, a big neon sign that says beer. Cold beer. Everybody comes in as thinking there's Pacificos here. Right. What the fuck?

What's going on? Yeah. But indeed it's just part of the like chocolate is a drug kind of vibe that people loved in the late 90s where it's like I'm a chocaholic. I can't stop. I think it's meant to just be like very just like the most by the book definition of a dispensary. You know what I mean? It's how they look at their place. Anyway, I haven't been in.

They got it for me. The weather stores got it for me. Anyways, my name's Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. Jack Hammer Killer O'Dion. Courtesy of Snarfiela. That's the Treehouse of Horrors nickname. This is, I discovered a reference to a 2004 film called The Jackhammer Massacre, I think.

I have to assume that's who the Jack Hammer Killers, about a guy who, you guessed it, uses a jackhammer to kill people. It does sound like he's the protagonist. Like, you follow his dissent. He's like a businessman and his friend dies, and that, like, sends him over the edge. So it's like a Michael Douglas falling down, American psycho situation. He is, and this is a spoiler alert for anybody who's planning on checking it out,

he is ultimately undone by the fact that the jackhammer needs to be plugged in. And it comes unplugged. God damn. Is that even true? I mean, like, are they electrical? I feel like they have needs more power than that. Yeah, I would have assumed that would have just something you like edit out, but they were like,

nah, this is going to be the crux of the weird. Oh, okay, wait, no, he's probably using like a more handheld jackhammer. Right. Like, uh, okay. Interesting. He doesn't have like a cordless makita option. It's, uh, yeah. I would not have.

I probably made before the cordless era, I guess. 2004, you'd think. shocking or like a gas powered one you know what I mean where you could do like a scary like rip the cord and it's like mm yep yeah instead it was like hold on let me plug this in real quick like a like a hot glue guy you got a 50 foot extension yeah that's what happens the extension cord comes unplugged

and that does sound if I were a slasher that does sound like the sort of shit that would get me caught up he has to sneak into people's house and then find an outlet he says really funny Oh, fuck, it's one of the ones attached to the light switch. So I have to, like, turn the lights on to get this plugged in. It's a two-prong. It's a two-prong.

He does ground adoption. You don't have GFCs in here? What the fuck? Yeah. I'm thrilled to be joined, as always, by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray. It's Miles Gray, aka Trump's got dementia, Trump's got dementia, Trump's got dementia, Trump's got dementia, or Trump's got dementia or Trump's got dementia. By this dementia, get Trump's got dementia. Okay.

shout out to me this morning. We were talking about intergalactic. We were talking about Jack coming on. We were talking about intergalactic shit. Yeah. And then we were also talking about there. We would have also accepted another dementia. Another dementia.

Another dementia. Because we got two presidents in a row, baby. Everyone's got dementia, baby. Yeah. You got to be on the hill. You got to have Brock and dementia. Congress too. Biden dementia.

I'm a dementia. Yeah. Congress too. It's so many of them. We have the geriatric Congress night right now. It's crazy. Yeah. No, I mean, I think people who have, who can barely know if they're going to be alive for the next three months be dictating what the future looks like 10 years from now.

Get them out of here. Stayholders. Get them all out of here. I'm just going, I'm sorry. I'm agist. Get them out. Yeah. For something at a certain level.

Yeah. 100%. Get them out of there. Ageism is just like, I don't, I'm worried for them. I don't. Every time there's a video of Mitch McConnell. like, I'm like, is he going to make it through this video, let alone the day? Like, it's harrowing.

Anyways, Miles, we're thrilled to be joined in our third seat once again by the director, journalist, and host behind one of the great podcasts. It is about, as I think he put it the first time he was on, the fact that the world is queerer than many of us suppose, indeed queerer than many of us can suppose. It's called Otherworld. He's called Jack Wagner! To be clear, I did not say that, but thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure, as always, to be here.

I did not call my show queer. And if I did, it would be in a positive way. Yes, yeah, yes. Wait, where did you get that fake quote? I thought, man, did you actually think I said that? I had that quote, and maybe it was something that I thought was, I think it was being used to describe the paranormal. Wait, that's me. I said that's the Miles original.

it's giving pre-1900 yeah yeah for sure for sure for sure but I'll take it I'll take it's a good quote it's a good quote that I think sums up some of my favorite parts of your podcast although you should start doing that to every guest is kind of like and see what they do with it

yeah right if it's a good quote like I mean sometimes you might want to take credit why not you know yeah yeah yeah yeah Jack thank you so much for for coming back yeah you've had many travels and travails since you were last on we wanted to have you on on this spookiest of of weeks.

Thank you. Your podcast is so good. We're going to end up just being like, man, you remember that episode? That was crazy, bro. I'm fine with me. And sometimes I might not remember it, which is the craziest part. Is that true? Is that real, dude?

So we're going to basically do that in the body of the episode. Hell yeah. But first, we do like to get to know our guests a little bit better by asking you, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? Okay, this is, I have an answer to this. It's a layered response, though, and this actually, it sort of caused a lot of reflection for me. I searched through my Google search history. Normally, this should be horrifying, right?

Like, this is not something you want, even your significant other, to access. I was scrolling through mine, dead serious, completely dry. It would docks me, so I'm not going to let you look, but I would let you. look. It's that boring. I had to scroll three weeks back to find something interesting. Dude, I'm telling you. How mundane are we talking about? I was like literally concerned. For a bigger right foot? Not even that dry. I was just like purely looking up like addresses and I'm like. Oh, right. Dinner in Echo Park. Just that. And then like kind of Googling

just facts to confirm like spellings of things. No spice whatsoever. Just nothing, no flavor, no fun. No wild cards. I was. looking at this and had to go three weeks back in the history to find something you know off color funny weird I'm like dude I think I need to get a I need to go back to my roots and get a little weirder because this is um the last three weeks I don't yeah held a mirror up to you that you didn't no and nothing even embarrassing damn nothing even embarrassing but I'm like oh I mean my last ones were dude do fly's fuck that's a great search see I don't even have any of that dude and I mean I don't know I mean I don't know

I mean, and part of it just sort of reveals my own ignorance, but that's the fun of it, right? Just being transparent about how little I know about how flies copulate. Do they? Is it, I feel like it must be an egg situation, the larva, right? That's what you think, until I caught him banging outside on a chair I was sitting on. And I was like, how are they? How are they? Hit it?

Oh, yeah, like straight from the, like, from the back. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Some house flies on another fly. The female uses like an egg to, like, it's very interesting. Anyway. So you got nothing. think? Very dry.

No, no, okay. So, I scrolled back three weeks. Where did you get? No, I did find one. Oh, God. Yeah. I'm just even looking at it right now. This is so embarrassing. I'm like looking up sponsors. Like, you know, you guys do ads. Like, I'm sure you have to go through the approvals of like brands that could be advertising on the show. I'm just Googling that. But anyway, the last-UB ultra evil? Yes. But one I found that I do think it's funny is, can water go bad? Mmm. Yeah.

This was not a question for me, but I did want to know. This was like something I was arguing with my wife about she thinks water could go bad. I'm like, they got daze on the bottles. You know what I mean? Like that's the only reason I'd be like. How long a cup sitting out in the house? How long sitting there until you can't drink it? I mean, you'll probably just evaporate at that point.

I'm more thinking, I guess I was like a bottle of water. Like, oh, that shit said drink by like 98. Yeah, that's another good question. I mean, if it's plastic, I would be a little concerned. But it starts tasting like plastic is usually like my, if it tastes like plastic, usually that happens if it's like been in a car like for 15 cycles of like swelling up. 15 moon cycles? Yeah, yeah.

Let me ask you that's like water, there's like a cup of water on the side of your bed. Yes. From the night before. Yeah. Would you drink at the next night if it was there and available and you'd, needed it? I put that in the plants. Tastes like room. Tastes like room. Okay. That's what I said. It tastes too much like room.

It tastes like the ambient. Flies could be fucking in that. I don't care about that. It just tastes like room. It just a overnight cup. I don't know. Maybe I've always had that experience. When it gets a little tiny bubbles on the foot? Yeah, it just gets a little stale, I guess. That's how I think. Yeah. This is just something I wanted to know, you know. Wait, so is there an answer? No, the, it cannot. Like, what's the scenario that you set up? Because I forgot. Can water go bad. I mean, no. I think. I think. because the answer is no.

But, like, I think it's, oh, wait, yes, water can go bad. Technically, the water itself does not expire. The main issue are contaminants from the container or outside sources, degradation of the canair itself over time, especially if exposed to heat or sunlight. So, you know, we were not far off. Not far off. Yeah, yeah.

The thing that I'm always imagining happening is I took a sip. My mouth germs have, like, somehow invaded and started to colonize the water. And it's going to just be like, Bad breath in there. But they're doing that inside your body, right? Yeah, exactly. So I should be fine. But nonetheless, I'm like, I'll take a, this is for the plants now.

This is for the kids. I put it in my kids little cooler. You're going to poison them with your mouth terms. Yeah, exactly. Same brain rate. That's how we pass our legacy along. What is something you think is underrated, Jack? Waking up early is underrated.

Waking up early. I like, I'm a big fan of, waking up super early. How early we're talking? Before sunrise, if possible. So mark some like Mark Wahlberg shit? Not on that. I mean,

that's crazy. In fact, I'll say, I will say that being buff is overrated. Mm-hmm. Waking up early under, that's crazy because most people that are fucking jacked dude

are waking up early, man. That's right. It's you and a bunch of jacked people who are awake and moving at the time that you're waking up. I mean, yeah, I think,

you know, the gym crowd, they have to do. And there are the late night gym people. That's right. Some serious jack dudes will be in there at like weird hours, like 1130 working out, you know, PM. So you've got to get three hours of workout in every day.

You know, you've got to pick your spots. Yeah, yeah. But I would say, yeah, I'll keep with this line and say that being buff is overrated. I mean, look, I think if you are buff, more power to you, I think so much of it is genetics, you know, In fact, like, Matthew McConaughey, I think, was, like, quoted saying that he just, like, kind of randomly bangs out pushups throughout the day and, like, doesn't really, like, have a routine. I think it was him, but it's like, yeah, there are guys that just kind of look like that.

Just genetically looks great without a shirt on since he was, like, 10 years old. Yeah, and then, like, if you're resisting nature, it's, like, really, really hard to change it. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's overrated, like, like, to really be. that shredded it's like a full-time job yeah that's a lot of time a lot of dedication I'm like crazy

and we have uh yeah training is overrated I'll say that America's obsessed with training now you know I mean like that's yeah I mean there's like warrior ethos social media

like gym talk kind of shit yeah I mean there's like the whole hybrid thing between like the CrossFit and like military adjacent I think there's like a there's like a certain type of person that like works out in a stolen valor type of way.

I don't know. In their mind. Maybe I don't know where I'm going with this, but you know, I think there's guys, I think there's a huge chunk of America that they're like training for something that's going to, they think might happen and it's just never going to happen.

You know, it's the same thing with like the gun guys, training the weapons. Like they're doing like the tactical training. You know, they're buying all the gear. They're like kind of waiting for the shit to hit the, fan but yeah now they just have to join ice the shit rarely hits the fan yeah well now they have that

they have that outlet but it doesn't seem like it's the buff guys or the guys who are training with guns that are doing no yeah I just think physical fitness exams yeah I think you could let a lot of you could waste a lot of time training yeah you know yeah everybody is in in the movies everyone's buff now it's just like you know the like objectively Does Iron Man, does it make sense that Tony Stark is like a jacked dude? Like, he's supposed to be just like a scientist. Because at his most potent form is some jacked iron body. Right.

And like the, like he's over, he's compensating for the physical realities by creating this like metal body that can encase him. It would make more sense if he was a skinny, you know, you're right, scientists. But instead, they were like, dude, you're going to need to spend. a year getting starting to look like Superman. Drinking goat milk for breakfast. If he was in the suit all the time,

he would have almost no muscle mass at a certain point. Terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Because like he wouldn't be using his muscles. Yeah. That would be amazing. Victor said he would have Elon Musk's body type.

That would be amazing. It's like, damn, no, fit, giant torso. Jarvis, adjust midsection. Please. There's, I mean, it's funny though, too,

because I think we were talking about this last week about how all the leading men are just so fucking ripped with like, 10% fucking body fat. And I'm like, they're on gear though. Yeah. I was like,

but remember like Kevin Costner was like the fucking height of it? Like in America, like oh God, this guy that looks like he doesn't work out ever and just has the ideal. Yeah. Like he's like naturally fit enough. Well, okay,

here's a good Google search. Kevin Costner shirtless. See, that would have been, I'm looking at that right now. I already looked. There's the one with the chest hair, right? Oh, I mean, him in Bull Durham, that's like,

that's kind of like where you want to be. That's a good place to be as a guy. I mean, you could have a little more muscle, but, you know. My ideal body type, Kevin Costner and Bull Durham. Yeah. It's like not a ton of muscle, but he's looking good, you know. Yeah, Buff doesn't work all the time, though. It's not bad.

There's a way that there's like six-pack, if you're not meant to have one spiritually, it's like not good. You ever seen somebody that, like, work. really hard to get one, then you see it, and you're like, did not expect you to have that, and I don't know if I feel comfortable with it. What the fuck? What do you do? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? If you're at the end of the beach, and it's like a really pasty dude, it almost looks to get it's like a photoshopped set of abs on. It's creepy. Yeah, that's Jack. I'm just like, yeah, the the photoshopped abs. Well, you tape the photo on your stomach, but

I'm just remembering the Kevin Costner swimming in a, uh, in Robin Hood. He's like taking a bath in a waterfall and that is the reverse of the iron man where it's like wait this doesn't make sense that he would be this jack it's he's like supposed to be the fucking hottest to do it ever he's like getting out of a shout out of you know the equivalent the robin hood equivalent of a shower which is a waterfall and like made marion is like visibly being like oh god i'm looking at this dude to this dude how are you going to say no to that yeah he looks like you know

this is normal this like regular yeah yeah he's like extra regular extra meaning he's Robin Hood bring back extra regular yeah oh wow is it ass out in the movie his ass is out yeah I remember that and he has tan lines I know yeah I much he should I guess

the sun is strong out there in Sherwood Forest all right we're good we've gone down he got there I imagine this is normal for your show but yeah yeah this is about so yeah Kevin Costner shirtless underrated

let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about Ouija we'll be right back alright here we go hey I'm Cal Penn and on my new podcast

here we go again we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask why does history keep repeating itself you may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me

to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early. We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lely Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday.

A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion-dollar payout. out. There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House. And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure.

Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. I live below a cult leader and I fear I've angered her. Well, wait a minute, Sophia. Adia knows she's a cult leader. Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week

on the OK Storytime podcast, so you'll find out soon. This person writes, my neighbor's been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals and now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder.

I think they may be part of a cult. Hold up, Sophia, a real life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue. But according to this person, contractors are tearing down the patio to find out what's going on with their ceiling, and her neighbors are not happy. Well, she needs to report them ASAP. She did! And now they've been confronting her in really creepy ways all the time.

So, do we find out if this person survives their neighborhood cult or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everybody? This is Snacks from the Trabner's podcast, and we're bringing you the horror every week all October long. Kicking up this month, I'll be bringing you all my greatest fear-inducing horror games from Resident Evil to Silent Hill,

me and Tony Bringing Back Fire Team on Left for Dead 2. And we're just going to be going over some of the greats. Also in October, we'll be talking about our favorite horror and Halloween movie and figure out why black people always got to die further. The Umbril Reliquary invites any and all foolish. brave enough to peruse its many curiosities. But take heed, all sales are final. Weekly horror side quests written and narrated by yours truly.

With a full episode read and a commentary special. And we will cap it off with horror movie battle royale. Jason versus Freddie. Michael Myers versus the 80th thing with the little tongue muster. October, we're doing it Halloween style. Listen to the trapners podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever to get your broadcast.

And we're back. We're back. And you did a couple episodes on Ouija boards, yes, a year ago or so, and then a more recent one, where you cover the phenomenon of Zozo and Zaza, who, that sounds words. I mean, it's funny.

It is funny. The episodes aren't funny. They're scary. They are. spooky. I was getting spooked. It's getting downright spooked to listen to those things. It's kind of like, it reminds me, have you ever been in a meeting where

like someone Zoom bombs it? Yeah. Like, usually a teenager. Oh, and you hear screaming out of nowhere. Fuck you. It's like just the worst thing they can think of. I have not, but in that, that's really funny though. That's like such a 2020 kind of experience of Zoom bombing.

It was a real pandemic thing. Yeah. And that kind of feels like what's happening. It's like these two malevolent spirits that keep... And so the thing that is creepy about it is that you're taught... The format of your show is you talk to people who they then tell their story

of this thing that resists sort of explanation happening to them. And so it's like almost an oral tradition. You get to hear the story from them. it adds a real, like, layer of, like, I don't know, that's, this is, like, it's hard to deny when people are, like, yeah, so, like, I was in high school, like, this is the weird shit that I was doing. And then, like, this thing started happening. And in this case, like, people were fucking around with Ouija boards and, like, they started having these, like, really dark messages come through. And it was Zozo. in the episodes from last year was like what they kept, it kept going ZO, ZO, ZO. And like they didn't realize

it at the time, but like you do the research and this is a, there's a trend across people who fuck around with Ouija boards of like this specific thing happening. Oh, Zoso and Zaza is like a common Ouija board. It's like a very common thing. Very common. There's like a movie

called I Am Zo that I think is like not very well reviewed. I think it's like 13% Rotten Tomato's situation. Okay, a classic. But yeah, this is like a massive thing. And, you know, I had heard of it. Like, I think I had heard of, like, the concept just from being on the internet or something.

But it's totally something that I would completely laugh at and not want to do on the show. Yeah. If you were consciously making up names, those would not be the names you came up with. It sounds like a fake name that, like, a 13-year-old girl would have been her, like, she's, like, trying to write a horror movie for the first. time. Like a five-year-old that lies a lot. They're like, yeah, Zoso and Zaza. Yeah, exactly. But it is weird and, yeah, I started getting a lot of emails about it.

And then, you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing had like really intense stories that involve this. And apparently it's really common for something to kind of like take over on the board and identify itself by this name. and yeah, I guess that was like where it turned for me is when I was starting to talk to people who like weren't aware that this is a phenomena

that's known and even things that kind of like happened before the anybody was talking about this at all on the internet. Yeah. So my read like heading in was more like I think Ouija boards are super

interesting because I do think like they're you know like skeptics will be like oh it's just like people, you know, moving the thing on purpose. And I, I tend to think it's like more they're moving it and don't realize they're doing it. And so this like part of them is being expressed that they don't have access to or like control over, you know, like it's like a sort of youngian like some part of. And in this case, it would be like a shared unconscious because they all have this same name

and, like, this that is associated with the same, like, dark energy. Yeah. Which I think, like, that doesn't explain everything, but I do think it's easy. Like, this comes up a lot on our show in reference to, like, the story of Havana syndrome, where everyone was like, oh, they were making it up. And it's like, I don't think they were intentionally making it up. Like, I think they experienced those realities of, like, a, a bad thing, like getting hit with a sound beam or being like under attack by some like

invisible force that it turns out is like kind of physically impossible to have happened. But like they- I know, I'm sorry to force a detour, but did they ever find a solution for that? Was there any closure? It's not like officially, but you know, you as documents have been released, the CIA themselves and like the different departments, The Pentagon, like, prior to the Trump takeover, all seemed to be like, we don't think there was any, like, physical basis for these attacks.

And these are organizations that would seemingly love a physical basis for an attack that they could, you know, start getting funding around. Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it. Like, I first encountered it as something that was just complete nonsense. It was, like, evil CIA people having, like, maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things they do work. Yeah. But, you know,

but then I've also heard some stuff that was really compelling on the other side. Like there was, I listened to a, like a series where interviewed some people who had experienced it and it sounded wasn't really intense. But anyway, you could continue with your point. I didn't mean to be realized. I think that that's true.

I think that they experienced harrowing things. I think the power of the unconscious mind is like the great underrated force of people's existence. And I think, like, ritual and, you know, all these things that we don't really make room for officially as, like, mattering in our world, in a lot of cases, like, are ways of accessing that. And I think, I just think that people are like, if it's their unconscious mind, then it's, like, skeptic, skeptic view, not interesting. And I think that's actually, like, really interesting that, like, that's kind of what's going on. But there are definitely parts of the story that would make it, like, impossible for that. Like, there's one part where it predicts that they're at, like, a high school movie screening on a football field,

and it is like, it predicts that the projector is about to go down, and it does. Yeah. Right. Yeah, there's a ton of stuff like that. And, I mean, also the fact that in that story, this occurred before this whole Zosoph, thing was like a trend, like a decade before. Yeah. And then the other thing is like the basis for poo-pooing

Ouija boards, as I say, it's like the ideomotor effect. It's like this idea that like microscopic muscle movements in a group can like guide the thing, the planchette. But, and that's, you know, like the idio-motor effect is like a real thing. I'm pretty sure it's

been like proven to exist. But if you look at the board, like Zio, like Z is all the way at the end O is not equally at the end on the opposite side it's like one over so I just think like if you guys if like I know people explain it away by saying like oh it's just sort of like

in the downtime between you know the ideomotor effect spelling out a word people just kind of like go to the side to side pattern hit that I'm like I just don't think it would hit ZO or ZA for that matter right it's too specific things from each other yeah yeah It's too common. It's too common. I would expect to see other patterns of that sort.

And that's sort of what I, I kind of come to those conclusions a lot on the show where I'm very open to looking at it both ways, but sort of like, well, I would expect to see more. Like, same with like the Hatman stuff, right? Can we talk about the Hatman stuff?

The Hatman is this very common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep paralysis, but people see it not during sleep paralysis. It's just the shadow man that looks like he's wearing like a wide-brimmed hat and sometimes he has red eyes. There's like another thing that I would have laughed at and thought was corny until I realized

like how common this is. And it's like a localized thing because I mean I've, I see it on the inner. It's like all over the place. Right. And that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting. It's not just like, well, these group of kids over here saw it when they were fucking around with Ambien or something.

It's like, no, this is a thing. Oh, yeah, there's that too. Yeah, the Benadryl thing. But yeah, that, and then in sleep paralysis, there's like a few common things people see. The other one is like the old hag, which is like this woman sitting on you. And then this is sort of the same thing,

but like the mayor, the, this is like the origin for the term nightmare is this thing sitting on you and holding you down. But anyway, there's like, is it a horse? The mayor is a horse? I think at one point it was like a horse.

Yeah. kind of like demon thing. I think that's what it might have been. Damn. But yeah, it's a really old term. But pretty much every culture has a similar thing to this, and they're all similar looking,

like seeing this old woman on you, or in the case of the Hatman, how widespread that is. So circling back to the unconscious talk, if it was just like the human unconscious, whatever that means, by the way, generating this, you'd expect to see a lot more variation,

especially throughout time and culture. Like, I'd be very, very surprised, you know, I just said that the whole, the origin of the term nightmare comes from this phenomenon. You would expect going back that far that, like, fears would change enough. Yeah. Why wouldn't we have, like, why wouldn't it be a Tesla?

You know, that's what we get around. We don't get around on horses anymore. We get around on. So, like, why would it still be a horse? Why would it be a guy with a big hat that like is not a style people wear anymore. Yeah, I would expect to see more like micro trends with it, if that

makes sense. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And between cultures and stuff. So yeah, that's, um, those are the kind of things that interest me, you know? And those two things I did laugh off at first, but then kind of reluctantly dug into them like,

oh, this is pretty interesting actually. And frightening. So I don't really know what it is. It's funny that I mean, I think it's sort of a stupid name. I wanted to think of another name for that episode besides Zaza. Like, it killed me to call it Zaza. But that's like, I don't know. I think that's interesting, though, when it's a scary thing that, like, I'm, you know,

I'm normally somebody that would think it's completely stupid, but the story is compelling enough that, like, pulls me to the other side, right? And it's kind of a goofy sounding name, but this is, I guess that makes it scarier in a way. You're like, no, not Zaza on Zosso visiting me tonight. Well, it is like something that, like, you would kind of laugh at it. that at first, you know. Totally. I mean, I think that's kind of like the experience of listening to your show.

Like, I remember last time you're on was kind of like, I think you were just getting into like the them series of episodes. And like, I'm, I'm very skeptical. Like, I'm one of those people who like, even though I'm like Japan, I'm Japanese, there's like very rich ghost like, you know, spooky culture there that I'm like, nah, I'm not, I'm not seeing any of this. stuff. But, like, in listening to your show, because, I mean, like, I remember when you're on last time, you're sort of like, I don't necessarily believe in everything or at all. It's more just

like, it's, it's really interesting to hear these people describe these events that have happened. And as they experienced them. Yeah. Yeah. And the them one is by far one of the most fucking out there things I've ever heard in my life. If you, like, give like a, you know, like a three line description of it. So people kind of understand what I'm about to like get into here. And real quick, before you were, before we started recording, you had to answer a text message. I have to assume it was from one of the four-dimensional. Yeah, how did you know? How did you know?

It was Solvite. I will say interesting timing. The girl from that series is visiting right now. She's in town. So I met her in person, yeah. Bro, we've been hanging out. Do a Solvite meetup, man. You could look up, yeah.

Maybe you'll see her walking around the neighborhood. Yeah, but I mean, I get, yeah, like sort of give a light breakdown because I think it's really interesting to listen whether or not you believe in this stuff or skeptical. I think it's the experience of listening to it for me was very interesting. I'm glad you liked it. Basically, it's about this girl in Norway who is kind of feeling off and basically one night while she's in college sees this strange looking like man in her room, almost like a ghost, but not quite. She's obviously freaked out. It has a lot of really strange physical sense. as well around this time and tries to power on with her life but is ultimately just kind

of having anxiety about it and tweaking as you would expect. So she calls her mom in hopes that her mom will calm her down, tells her like, I saw this thing, like I'm feeling all this stuff, blah, blah, blah. But instead of her mom calming her down, she was like, I was afraid this was going to happen. It was like, they're talking to you now. She's like, what? There we go. Yep. But so she's like, what? And so her mom, you know, tells her very briefly that she's been communicating with these beings for like a long time and is essentially like come home to visit and we'll talk.

And at that point, she finds out that the mom and a girl from the mom's gym have been communicating with what they think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount of time. I forget how long. and to make it stranger this girl from the gym is the same age as Solvye and her and the mom have become very close to the point where she becomes like a third sister to them essentially

and like kind of doppelgangerish or like they have like a lot of martialities between them yeah yeah so it's like it gets weirder from there right but it's to me it's always like that like start to the story is what locked me in

early on and especially meeting Soul Fly. I'm like, I 100% believe this girl. I mean, it's not even a question of belief. You know, if you meet her and talk to her, it's just like, she's a very straightforward person. Right. This clearly happened to her, and she doesn't know what it is. But that's the thing

that really fucked me up about it. Because again, I was like, I'm sure there's got to be a way to explain all of this, but then I was trying to look deeper as to what was pulling me in, despite being so logical when I like, when I listen to things like this.

And there was something, I think, because we live in this like super dumbed down, like deeply disconnected world right now, like our current, like world, this modern world, we're completely disconnected from like, you know, the land from each other, like our history and things like that, that to hear somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences, in a way, like, sort of calls to something like that there's something, there's like, there's like, there's a spiritual. that we've lost on some level as human beings, that even if I believe Solvi or not, hearing this person speak about these things that can't be explained that they don't understand is like pulling at something I think much deeper like in the human experience that we just completely lack now. Like especially because that's what colonialism does to most people.

Like completely it's those things are seen as like pagan or savage or whatever. It takes the ritual and spirituality out of things and it's just like, like this is a materialist universe, here are the laws that explain it, we know everything, no more mystery, get to work. Exactly. And I think there's a yearning on some level that it surely just can't be all of this just tangible shit on some level, even if you're religious or not, that like there is something that we feel on a deeper level that we can't quite explain.

And I think that's why I really enjoy listening to the show is because even then, even if I don't know if this actually happened, but the sensation of hearing a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether they're like very talented liars or just people who are really being very sincere, there's just something that like is undeniable that I realize I'm like, oh man, like there's something about it that is like, I don't know, like healing or there's a yearning that I didn't understand like I had deep within me, which is like trying to find sort of like these sort of threads to something like that isn't just tangible and just explainable like everything else has been in my life. I like, I really, really like that

reaction and that's actually kind of like what I hope the reaction I hope people have to the show or was hoping they would have um and I think it's what why I like this stuff you know where I wasn't super into it but I do think like when you hear something like that I find it comforting in a way like uh it kind of can make you feel small and like remind you that oh yeah we really don't know anything still right and especially when like the world is crazy or your life Life is crazy or anything, just things feel out of control so often in life. You know, I think there's, there's an odd comfort to hearing the most extreme version of that and being reminded like, oh yeah, like, not only is the world completely out of control, like, it's always been out of control. Like, we don't know anything. We're just like kind of powerless, you know, and that's fine. It's comforting knowing that there are these great, great mysteries that maybe we'll understand

one day, but it's okay to not know. Because I mean, so I think I've spent my life being a skeptic, like a real skeptic on a supernatural things. And yet, uh, I wear specific hats or don't wear specific hats based on what, like, how a basketball team that I like has performed. Yeah. Which is, I think to your point about powerlessness, it's like, that is a thing I am completely unable to control.

And so I like invent this stupid way that I can control. it and like believe it with my body and not my mind but like fully like I'm like fuck I did something wrong on right well yes that's what's interesting too because I remember like a lot of people to like shows like yours or other shows dealing with like paranormal phenomena's like there are people who so deeply want to just explain why it isn't like and it's just like and it's an unequivocal no this is fucking nonsense and like I get that sort of desire but I think that's why like I that's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode. It's not me necessarily trying to figure out like, where are the holes in this story? Because like, sure, I can be very analytical about those

kinds of things. But I think, again, it's the idea of just that there is something we just can't explain. And it's, and sure, maybe it's manifesting in these people saying, like, I'm experiencing X, Y, or Z. But like, even knowing someone is experiencing that, there's something like intoxicating about it too. And I think maybe that could just be because I've been, I'm such a deep skeptic about stuff like this where I find myself not having to be like, does this confirm my beliefs or does they completely blow them up? I'm like finding this middle thing which is like, no, man, like there's something just much deeper, even if it's about like, it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've shut ourselves off to something that like

I'm trying to figure out how to reconnect to and not in like a magical way, but just something that's a little bit more outside of what is, you know, sort of academically described. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I will say this, like, well, first of all, as the host of this show and somebody who wants people to just be able to, like, listen and relax and, like, not being able to not trying to disprove everything.

It is obviously frustrating, like, that type of personality who's, like, wants to quickly disprove things. But I will also say that, like, a lot of this stuff, even if you don't, like, believe it all the way, like a lot of times like I don't have a way to disprove it and I try right a lot of people are comfortable

disproving something by just like saying some bullshit and being okay with it not being complete right? A lot of the ways people disprove these things is just like throwing out some fucking stupid shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a podcast one time

and just being like oh it's like this effect you know yeah like I heard about that one time it's like all right And then if you really, if you really apply it and, like, pick it through, it doesn't make sense. Like, it wouldn't hold up in court, right? Like, you couldn't, if you actually had to disprove it, like, up to the standards of, like, a jury, you know, that would not work oftentimes. There's all sorts of weird little thing people toss around, like, mold. Like, oh, the person had, like, black mold in their house, maybe.

Maybe it was black mold in their house. But even if it's like, it's just like, even if it is, right? there's the fact that even someone is experiencing the world like that, I think it's just very interesting. Yeah, I would still be interested. But yeah, I mean, there's things like that that get tossed around as if we even fully understand those. And Jack, not to, I'm not picking on you at all.

I do this too, but like, I hear a lot about people saying like, oh, it's just their unconscious playing tricks on them. It's like, well, dude, that's not even, we don't even know what the unconscious mind is yet or the limitations of it. So it's like that doesn't really, I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever. That gets tossed around a lot. It's like,

well, we don't know the complete functions of the unconscious mind. How it exists. We don't know if it's completely internal. There's people who think that it could be partly external. Yeah, that it could come from somewhere else. That opens things up.

That opens the floodgates. Yeah. Young believed that there was like a shared unconscious that we like had access to. that exactly yeah yeah i that's kind of my interest in it is that it's so unknown and which is just as magical the concept the concept of a shared unconscious and then how then going about to sort of bring all that to it yeah it's one of those things where like uh it's sort of like the one oh one level is being the reddit atheist who just is like oh it's all fake but when you kind of

like dig deeper you kind of like come out through the other side at one point you could kind of like keep digging through to the other side over and over again with this stuff which is interesting but yeah like the unconscious stuff I mean even bringing it back to the Ouija board it's like if it is everybody's unconscious like the movement on the

planchette kind of like reaching this flow state like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the key to unlocking it right? Yeah. The people who basically popularize the Ouija board and like they don't actually the spiritualists don't use that anymore but like

that era, that era of time is like, would birth this, like the talking board. But yeah, those people that believe it 100% would say that that is the key, like the group working together and that shared. Exactly. I think it's so powerful and interesting. Yeah. It's

cool. I mean, the longer you think about it, the more you scratch your head with this stuff. Yeah, right. Two of the characters, like, predict using the Ouija, like, predict the exact day that, like, one or the, you know, Zozo predicts the exact day that their boyfriends are both going to break up with them.

I thought that was funny. Is that so wild? I forgot if this made it. Either way, it's so interesting. I forget if it made it into the episode or not. But when she told me that, I was like, do you think there's a chance that you guys just broke up with you because you were addicted to playing with a weird? Because they're so obsessed with it.

But like that is what, I think it's like a drug where you're like connecting with this thing in a way that is not available to you in any other way. So, like, whether it's something outside or inside, I think it's, you know, powerful and interesting and way more powerful than anybody is, anyone who's doing, like, being like, it's just their unconscious mind making, playing tricks on them.

That, yeah, it's not dismissive. Like, that actually makes it more interesting to me, I think. Yeah, but with the them series, people want clean answers. There's a certain type of person that would want, like, a clear answer to that. and they go looking for it. I wanted to disprove that one. I'm not disprove it.

I thought I was going to that confident I would find something. I would like turn over enough stones that I would find a clue, right? But I have not really even formed a theory in my mind that like a hypothetical way to disprove it all. I'm just kind of lost, which is so spooky to me. And yeah, I don't know. And that's what makes it so interesting. And same with the people in it. They don't really know what it is either.

I think that's why like even just like I would have when I was listening to I'm like, I can't wait to hear what the answer is. But then again, as again, like the sensation of listening to it isn't necessarily that I'm thinking of it like logically. It's more I'm, I think it's because because I'm skeptical that part of that, like there's a certain cynicism that comes along with that. Not that it's like bad or anything, but this helped thaw that. a bit and was just, maybe it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I could just go,

well, we don't know everything. And that's interesting. And I like, and I'll keep it there. It's not, I'm not going up calling my mom be like, yo, mom, we got to get right with these interdimensional beans. No, yeah, exactly. I don't know if you hear the clicking sounds I'm making with my mouth. And I think that's sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of like the experience of listening to the show is like, we used to only learn and pass information on via the oral tradition. And, like, that is learning, like, hearing things as people experience them through their experience. And, like, that's what I think is so powerful about the show. It's reconnecting you with, like, that way of experiencing these things that, you know,

we were just like, yeah, but written tradition better. And it's like, no, you're cutting out a whole very compelling way of learning about human experience. Yeah. And I think, like, to kind of close out the whole skepticism thing, you know, people who believe that there's explanations for everything, it's just we simply don't. I would love to know if we did have an explanation, like let's just say for ghosts. Like people, there are people who legitimately believe that like ghosts have been disproved. And like, like, whether it's infrasound or, you know, mold poisoning or something, there are people who think that's like case closed, this is what it is, it's just simply

not the case. And what I always say in terms of that, is like, if there really was some way to make a person see a ghost, I would love to know, I would love to patent it. Yeah. Do that. Can you imagine the haunted house you could do? Can you imagine the bag from the Universal Studios contract?

If I figured out, like, there's a sound frequency I could play to, like, vibrate somebody's brain in a way that they see a ghost. All right. I'm patenting that. You won't hear the podcast again, bro. Yeah. I think Raytheon. I'll buy a little same James.

Raytheon would be knocking at your door before Universal Studios. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll be right back. Sure. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn. And on my new podcast, Here We Go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from,

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it is the week of Halloween. I am just curious. I was somebody who, you know, you've connected with all these. Oh, by the way, we were talking about stupid names.

I did just want to say, Pizzou, which is like an ancient. It sounds like a Gen Z slang for possessed. It sounds like a Gen Z person being like, I got Pizzuzoo. Yeah. But yeah, that's like, people think that Zozo is like maybe that.

I mean, it seems like a stress to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like you're very close to Labibu. BJ's brewery. Like, hey, have you guys had our Pizzuzzoos before for dessert? Oh, yeah. Then he's called a Pizuki back in the day. But I do feel like Halloween is a time when U.S. culture, like this version of the Zikeyes

gets to devote energy toward living with that, like, different, you know, allowing those energies to kind of come out a little bit. And yeah, I feel like there's the skeptical thing that's like, there's just a chance to get drunk or dress up or whatever. But like, first of all, just connecting with the unconscious through mask play is like a very interesting form of therapy and, you know, a thing that I think there are interesting ways to take that what the skeptical people are talking about and be like, that's actually really interesting that just by wearing a mask, you, like, change how you experience reality

in such a way that you, like, almost become a different person. But I'm just curious as somebody who has experienced all these stories and, like, done all this reporting, like, what, what are your thoughts on Halloween, like, on, do you think there are any icons of Halloween that are, like, particularly, like, powerful sort of pop cultural for cruxes, you know what I mean? Like, Uh, I mean, no, personally. I mean, like, I am just kind of like, I think it's just because of my work, so I'm so desensitized, you know? I think it's like the way doctors like don't get freaked out by blood at a certain point or like bodies or, you know, and you like don't want to get naked in front of your doctor for physical and your friends like, oh, it's just skin to them. Like they don't even like see you as naked.

They don't give a fuck. Like, I think like I've developed that kind of like. callousness towards this material. Like, it doesn't scare me anymore in a way. I'm not trying to sound like a badass or whatever, but like... So what do you do? Like Halloween, you just be like,

hey, none of this matters. I know, I should probably... This is like not a fun answer. I should have just lied and told you that I'm the biggest Halloween fan or whatever. But no, it's become, you know, it's interesting. I love Halloween. I always have loved Halloween, but now I'm, during

this month, I'm so focused on, like, making the episodes the best they can that like I don't have a costume like I don't really have any major plans this is high season my busy month now yeah I will say as you for Halloween you're an icon of occult shit boring costume though yeah boring costume but I will say uh in terms of iconography I mean the Ouija board scares me yeah I think that's like a weird thing I I and a lot of you know people put it you know there's like horror fans who like put them on their wall or whatever like that kind of free, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't even keep one in my house.

I'm just going to be honest with you. That type of stuff, I just like, wouldn't do it. I don't know. Wait, what's a list of things you wouldn't keep in your house based on everything you've encountered now? So Ouija board, don't bring that, not, don't leave that here. Madrigay balls are good, though, right? That's just a Hasbro toy.

That's fine. Most of the answers are nonsense. I don't know, like, I think, I think everybody's different. I'll just say that. Everybody's different. And like if something freaks you out or freaks me out or unsettles me, like I wouldn't keep it in my house if that makes sense. There's been like some, I host the show. So I'm giving stuff. I get stuff. There's like there's things that just kind of like unsettle me. Like I think I was like designing merch or something. So I went to one of those like breweria stores or whatever that you see in LA where it's like they sell all the witchcraft stuff and they sell like weird Jesus statues and like.

dragons and you could buy like a love spell. I remember buying like all the weird love spells or like the clone that you spray and can make you rich. There were a couple of those that kind of like freaked me out, just like the vibes. So I think I got rid of that. A little too powerful. I feel like that's sort of my guidelines is like if it's something that's unsettled to you. You know, I look at it as more like personal, but objectively, I don't know if there's like any objective things that I think, no, I mean, good or bad. Yeah, they think that's what's so interesting about, like, the paranormal is that it speaks to

everyone differently. Like, whereas, like, any ghost right here, I'm like, yeah, whatever. And then someone's, like, inner dimensional being suddenly how I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. Tell me more. Yeah. I think intentions matter a lot. I know my answer kind of sounds like a cop-out or

some shit. I'm just, like, making up off the fly. But I think intentions do matter just based on, like, what I hear on the show. I think, like, you're... own like vibes for lack of a better word have like a big play on things you know so if it's if it's impacting you it might impact your home you know and vice versa yeah and like people there's this is too long of a story but um somebody i know had a cursed family ring like multi-generational

curse and like things were happening related to the ring it was an engagement ring that um made them think it was still cursed and she came to me asking like hey do anybody that could uncursed the ring. And I was like, no, I do not. I do not know. I'm sorry. A group of hobbits who are headed to Mount Doom right now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, give them some bread and cheese and they can take it, take it along with them, two for one. But this was a friend, her name's Rosie, by the way. She's been on the show. But yeah, I mean, when somebody, she was serious, and I wanted to give a serious answer, and I didn't have an answer for her, but what I actually believed in what I told her as I was like, you know, obviously you're going to search around and find

somebody to do this, but you should go with like, whatever you think would uncurs it, right? Like, if you think that's a Catholic priest, you should go to a Catholic priest. If you think it's going to be some spooky witch lady in the valley, go there. Right. If you want to the valley. Yeah, like a monk, uh, whatever. You think you should sage it, do that. Like, I think whatever you believe the most, you know.

Right, right, right. That's the most powerful is like your own intent. Yeah, if you're going into it thinking like this is not going to work, I think it's not going to work. See, Jack, that's why you wear the Sixers hat, man. That's right. And it works every time. That's why they're so good. Jack Wagner, such a pleasure having you. Thank you for coming on at this spoofiest time of year when you're busy time. Working on making the show, making amazing episodes of the shows. Where can people find you and follow you?

Otherworld is the name of the show. We are available anywhere you get your podcast, I suppose. Recently, it started uploading episodes to YouTube finally. So actually, if you are listening right now, it would actually be very helpful if you went and subscribed to the YouTube, which I think it's called Otherworld Pod on YouTube, but just find it. We just had a cool visualizer made for it.

So, but yeah, that's where you can find me. Is there a work of media that you've been able to come up with that you've been enjoying? Oh, fuck. I don't know if I have a good answer for this. Is there a horror movie that you enjoy, particularly? I haven't seen a good one this year. I'm so lacking in movies. The last TV show I watched was The Pit.

Do you guys watch that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great TV. Yeah. Bulletproof. I, uh, we started watching it, but, uh, my wife is a physician, and it was just like, no. You just work for her? Yeah, she was like, this is, too, this is, I like the pit.

I might have to go back and watch ER. Yeah. I've never seen it. Yeah, that's what I've heard that people who completed were just like, I need more of this and went back. I can't, that can't be my recommendation. I can't recommend an Emmy winning show.

That's fine. What else could I? What do people normally recommend? We've had the pit recommended before. Fuck. Yeah. People just say like what they're literally watching right now, even if it's not interesting,

just kind of giving people a glimpse into like whatever media they're consuming right now. But again, totally up to you. I'm consuming, dude, the show consumes me, sadly. So, I'm going to plug my own show at the world, and I'll plug your show. Yeah, one of the banks out there. And the Dodgers.

And the Dodgers, how about them? Miles, where can people find you? Is there a work of media you've been enjoying? Yeah, find me everywhere at Miles of Gray. Catch me talking about 90-day fiancé on 420-day fiancé, catch me rooting for the Dodgers, just within earshot of Dodgers. screaming like a fucking demon. And let's see.

A post I like actually from blue sky at internet hippo. Dot B Sky. Social posted. They're going to change the clocks this weekend and the president is powerless to stop it because he's weak and a loser. That's what they're saying, sir. That is a blue sky post if I've ever heard one. Let's see.

I like to tweet from Eli Kramendal who tweeted. Unfortunately, my nervous system can't tell the difference between needing to answer some emails and being wanted for murder. And that is how I experienced my life. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien, Jack O'B1 on Blue Sky. You can find us on Twitter and Blue Sky at Daily Zykeyes. We're at The Daily Zykeyes on Instagram.

You can go to the description of this episode wherever you're listening to it. And there at the bottom, you will find the footnotes, which is where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. We also link off to a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles, is there a song that you think that people might. enjoy. Yes, yes, yes. Just more. Look, I'm playing Ghost of Yote and my favorite thing. I'm playing that right now, too. Dude, just instrumental hip hop. I play on my spot, built in Spotify. So I changed the soundtrack. So it's kind of like Samurai Champleu. But I've been listening to the Madlib, uh, blue note record album that he did, shades of blue. Madlib invades blue note. Uh, and I just want to

go out on a track. Just a mate, Madlib is like one of the best sample base producers out there. Uh, this one's called Distant Land. by Madlib. All right. We will link off to that in the footnotes. The Daily Zykeyes is a production of IHeartRadio for more podcasts

from My Heart Radio visit. The IHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us this morning. We're back this afternoon to tell you what is trending. And we will talk to y'all then. Bye. Bye.

The Daily Zykeyes is executive produced by Catherine Law. Co-produced by Bay Wang. Co-produced by Victor Wright. Co-written by J.M. McNap. Edited and engineers. by Justin Conner. Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist,

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