The Daily Zeitgeist - Fighting Project 2025 (with Skye Perryman) 10.01.24

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

In episode 1751, Jack and Miles are joined by President and CEO of Democracy Forward, Skye Perryman, to discuss… What Is The Heritage Foundation? Project 2025 Makes It Possible To Dismantle The National Weather Service, The Policies In Project 2025 Are Already Here, What Can Be Done To Fight Back? And more! Fact-checking what Project 2025 says about the National Weather Service and NOAA   LISTEN: Heaven Knows by 54 UltraSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Oh yeah. And the show is sponsored by Kool-Aid. So I might be saying, Oh yeah. Throughout. Great. You literally drink the Kool-Aid. Yeah, exactly. Shout out to presenting sponsors, the heritage foundation.

We got a bone to pick with you, girl. Hi, I'm SC Cup and I've spent my career interviewing people about politics, presidential elections and some really tough breaking news. But now I need a break. I think you do too. So on my new podcast, Off the Cup, I'll still be interviewing people, usually famous and most likely my friends, but about life, you know, the stuff that consumes us

when we're not consumed by politics. So come join me every Wednesday for some conversational self-care. Listen to Off the Cup on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Gianna Predenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadston. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, my name is Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. This week, I interviewed Sean Mendez. He started out sharing covers online, and now he's one of the biggest

names in music. He also uses his platform online and now he's one of the biggest names in music. He also uses his platform to raise awareness for causes he cares about, like mental health and climate change. The reality is I don't have a deeper understanding of life. I just have a deeper acceptance of self. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Hey, y'all. Nimmini here.

I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

How do you feel about Biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the Biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? Go, go, go!

It's right here in black and white in Prince. They lying. It's bigger than a flag or mascot. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 358, episode two of Dirt Daily Zeitgeist. Yeah! A production of iHeartRadio, and it's a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared

consciousness. We are still America's only undecided podcast. The New York Times hit me up. They said you're undecided? Yes. You're undecided? Oh my God. Can we interview you 47 times and buy you some nachos to watch the debate?

Sure. I mean, we do have another debate coming up, right? Yeah, we do. So maybe we should. The New York Times, we're dead serious. We're undecided. Both sides look equally good to us. Pay for a nacho viewing.

Yeah, we truly don't know what to make of it come through and throw us a viewing party Well, we're super down miles. It is Tuesday. Yeah over first 2024 Wow there I said November take your time. What are you doing? It's October. I said that months ago Election is mainly entertainment. So I'm just getting excited. It's almost sweeps time. Yeah It's also look national taco day national fruit at work day national pumpkin spice day I know the the companies couldn't hold back but today is is actually National Pumpkin Spice Day, not August 15th. And this national, we wait until October. Yeah, exactly. To imbibe the sweet spices of pumpkin.

It's National Green City Day, National Black Dog Day, National Hair Day, National Homemade Cookies. It's a lot of days. October 1st, it's chock full of them. So there you go. And we're not supposed to be eating fruit any other days of the week at work. Yeah national I know it don't be greedy national fruit at work day It just encouraged it encourages some fruitiness to get through your day is what the aim of the state is so sure Encourage the fruitiness around you anyways My name is Jack O'Brien aka a little bit of vinaigrette in my life. A little bit of Italian get inside. A little bit of blue cheese.

All I need a little bit of Russian. All for me. A little bit of Caesar. Oh my, my, a little bit of thousand Island, son, a little ginger. Carrot can't be wrong. A little mix of these then I'm your man. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Ooh.

A little. What do we call that? Long Island dressing. Cause we said long Island iced tea is all the alcohols that long Island dressing is all the dressings. All the salad dressings. That one courtesy of Snarfula on the discord in reference to the conversation we were having about having a Long Island

salad dressing with Blake Wexler. Of course, the Great Blake Wexler's episode on Friday where Miles said that a Long Island dressing would be all the different dressings mixed together. Very good episode that I totally would have forgotten that conversation if you hadn't brought it up. So shout out to Snarfula on the Discord. Anyways, I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray. It's Miles Gray, yay. He puts me down, down like an idiot clown

and it just always feels shitty. I know that Vance kind of sounds like Pence, but why call me Mike when it's clearly JD? Okay, shout out Halcyon salad over there I wasn't sure if Trump had mistakenly called referred to JD Vance as Mike But that feels very much in the realm of possibility It's very hard to keep track of all of the lapses in memory and cognition, but I will just say Halcyon salad Thank you so much for that one. The only foul up boy fallout boy song

I feel like I can faithfully do the chorus of, so appreciate you do it so well. Thank you. Any, any chance that we get to hear miles to fall out boy Halcyon salad. We salute you miles. We are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by someone who it feels very embarrassing to be doing our AKs in front of, uh, they're the president and CEO of democracy forward who recently testified on Capitol Hill about the extremist ideas pushed by project 2025

to the house committee on oversight and accountability, which must've felt like a nice warmup for this momentous podcast. Please welcome sky. Welcome.! Sky! Welcome, welcome. Welcome to the main event, Sky. Great to be here. Oh, thanks so much for joining us. How do we compare so far to the House Oversight and Accountability? Well, you know, that hearing, the Republicans called it, and I don't think they realized it, but every witness they invited either authored or sponsored Project 2025. And so it was a very interesting hearing and it's going to be interesting to be here with you guys, but neither of you I think authored or sponsored Project 2025. So we're already ahead.

Great. Not nothing that I'm putting my name on. 2025. So we're already ahead. Great. Nothing that I'm putting my name on. Yeah. Right. Was this hearing sort of put together to try and like assuage people's fears? Like they were kind of.

No, they put together a hearing that they called the quote unquote legacy of incompetence of the Biden administration. That was the so-called purpose of this hearing and the four witnesses that they got, all of whom ended up having a deep connection to Project 2025. And of course, I was there to talk about the real threats that we have to our democracy. Project 2025 is included in that. And the fact that many of the things the Biden-Harris administration have done for people in communities have been stalled or blocked in the courts or in other places by these same groups behind Project

2025. But it was a very interesting day. So I'm just glad to be here with people that are not authors of Project 2025. Yes, yes. We're hard to find. We're few and far between. Apparently, it was hard for the chair of the committee to find it. Yeah. Right. Just the one person. All right. Well, Skye, we are going to start digging into Project 2025, P25, let's call it. So we don't have to keep saying all the syllables. Sounds cooler. Let's just all figure it out for ourselves, what we want to call it. But before we do that, we do like to get to know our guests a little bit better.

Great. By asking you, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? My search history. Well, I'm taking this from an airport and I was actually just searching the quickest place I could get a very quick Diet Coke here in the airport. So that both tells you that I, um, appreciate Diet Coke. I know this is a Kool-Aid sponsored podcast.

So I like Kool-Aid too. I like Kool-Aid too. But it shows you that. And it shows you that, you know, I don't do Pepsi. Yeah. Wow. You don't talk with Diet Pepsi. You sit down to a table at a restaurant.

They say, you order a Diet Coke and they say, is Diet Pepsi okay? And I say, ice tea, please. Oh, wow. You're like, I don't like it that much. Right. Wow. I think they're probably lovely people

and a great company or something, but I'm a Diet Coke. Oh yeah, Pepsi definitely is a bet. The crowd's the only man. I don't wanna be smirched. I don't wanna, you know, I'm trying to make, no, we don't need to make, we don't need to, you know, yeah, make headlines. We just make enemies here. Right, exactly. Yeah, we don't need to, you know, make headlines.

Make enemies here. Right, exactly. Yeah, we're pretty loose about that. But yeah, I tend to agree. You're a staunch Diet Coke guy though, Jack? I'm a staunch Diet Coke guy. I have, as I've become less habitual in my Diet Coke consumption. Which is good.

That's good. Yes. It's a big positive for me and my lifestyle. I will say I've now, we'll have a diapepsy every once in a while and be fine with it because I'm just not getting that every day. That bottle of chemicals every day. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I thought I would become more sensitive and be like, only the finest for me. But I think it's more like, yeah, just pour it down my throat. I don't care. Yeah. Well, that's I'm glad that that that's admirable that you're drinking less Diet Coke. And I've actually been trying to limit my consumption too, which is what the search history tells you I'm failing at that. Right, right, right. Like fastest version now. With haste. I'm failing at that. Right, right, right. You're like fastest version now, immediately with haste. I'm curious, as somebody who, you know,

you're testifying on Capitol Hill, you're looking at all the imaginations of, you know, this think tank, the Heritage Foundation, and how they're trying to just put the country backwards. I know that you must have also had your eye on this trend that's on the internet about marinating diet cokes. And I was curious about what your thoughts were on that. And if you think that matters.

You know what? I've not been called to testify on that. So yeah. Oh, got it. Have you heard about this? This is like a thing we were covering where people insisted that of a coke. Yeah. Look, it's the zeitgeist baby.

We were reporting on. I mean, all the news that fit. Yeah. But the concept being that if a Diet Coke is in the refrigerator for, let's say, five days, that's the optimal, I guess, temperature for them to taste the best. Do you have- Get all the Diet Coke molecules aligned. Yeah. Do you have ideas like that? I am a fountain Diet Coke person.

Oh. Fountain only. So I like a Diet Coke out of the fountain, which is why when I'm in an airport, there's an opportunity because they're, yeah, so you're a connoisseur. I could have just been this. Yeah. A diet coke influencer here. Like it's only fountain.

You don't, you won't have it any other way. No, I mean, I will drink it from a can, but I really prefer, I think the fountain is good. There's something about the plastic 20 ounce bottles that for some reason, like by the, uh, make sure the Coke is marinated five days in the refrigerator logic, that like plastic bottles make it taste warm to me. Like it makes it taste bad to me for some reason. I don't know if it's because it takes me too long to drink it. Like it takes me a whole 30 seconds to drink it instead of like 15. So it warms up a little bit, but there's something that even though I'm sure the

same chemical concoction is being poured into the plastic bottle that's being poured into the can, specifically the mini can really hits hard for me. I do, I do love a fountain as well, but fountain obviously always variable. There you go. So there you go. That was a good question. I love it. I haven't asked the team that what about your search history? Tell us something.

That's great. Yeah. Sometimes it can be a little tricky. I'm sure an employee because invasive search history is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't, It's an employee because that's invasive. Tell me what your search history is. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you don't drive as a manager.

Oh, you like Diet Pepsi? That's a mistake. With coworkers, fine. Yeah. Uh-huh. And then instead of just interacting with them in any way, you just have a notebook and go, uh-huh, and make little notations, check marks. What are you writing down there?

Nothing, nothing. Don't worry about it. No, it's just real. That is real interesting. What is something that you, and you are, as you mentioned, in an airport. So if people are hearing in the background some voices, those are airport announcements. So get into the atmosphere. This is an atmospheric show.

There we go. What is Sky something you think is underrated? You know, I think seeing a movie in a movie theater is underrated. I've been seeing, I've been trying to, now that, now that you can see movies so easily at home or streaming my family and I've been going to the theater. We went this weekend. I saw a wild robot. I have an eight year old, so I saw a wild robot.

I saw Transformers last weekend. That was good too. But I think the whole like going into the theater, getting the popcorn. I think it's, I think it's underrated right now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's so easy to watch things on streaming and I always find myself fighting

the urge. Like I know I could watch it at home, but also I love me. I like a fountain cherry Coke out the fountain. They have those machines now you can pick. Yeah, the freestyles. Yeah. I'm always tempted to try a different one, but I'm like, no, I don't want to be disappointed.

I don't want to be just, I'm just going to stick to Cherry. But no, yeah, I love going to the theater now. Cherry Coke out of freestyle, that's your move? Cherry Coke out of a freestyle machine. Where it has like the red syrup shooting in and it's like. Yes, yes. And the touch screen.

I do that with Coke Zero. That's great. And I'm such a purist. I show up and go to the freestyle and still just get the plain diet Coke. Yeah. There you go. It's awesome. And that in and of itself is its own pleasure.

You have all the choices in the world at your fingertips and you're still, you know, the one person who's still just going the classic DC. Yeah. I also have an eight year old and he is obsessed with robots right now. And so we saw Transformers one last weekend and I was saying on yesterday's episode, I made the mistake of letting him talk me into letting him watch the Shia LaBeouf Transformers original. He watched that and it's now his favorite movie of all time. I think it has profoundly changed his personality going forward.

He liked it so much. I would recommend don't do that. Which you probably weren't going to. But the wild robot, just back on the wild robot is good. So that would be a good move. I know, I'm excited. Yeah. That was-

Jack, yeah. We were thinking about seeing that this weekend. Take the robot pendulum in that other direction and be like, what about a kind robot? Yeah. It's just getting along with nature. Yeah. What if robots weren't like, what about a kind robot, you know, just getting along with nature?

Yeah. What if robots weren't contracted with the Pentagon to fight forever wars? Yeah. The Chevy product placement is so wild. Anyways, what is something, Sky, that you think is overrated? I think rest is overrated. Rest? Yeah. I like resting, but I think that there's a lot of stuff to do in the world and

things to see and work to do which we're going to talk about. I think rest is a bit overrated. How do you look at it in the sense that you because you think of everything that's happening, like I don't have time to rest or that while it is good, maybe too much of the rest is a, is a bad thing. How do you, or how are you looking at rest?

I think more like it's good and we should all rest. And yeah, we need that. But that I think that what really gets me energized is being able to go out and see the world or do things. So that leads to a lot of compromises on vacation where we'll do some resting, but also some exploring and those kinds of things. And then I think in this moment, which we're going to chat about in like kind of where the country is, we've all got to rest and take care of ourselves. But there's also work to do. Yeah, on this podcast or or in Congress or wherever, you know, or at the movie theater, but there's a lot of work to do. or in Congress or wherever, you know, or at the movie theater, but there's a lot of work to do. I agree.

As long as I get my 10 to 13 hours of sleep a night, I feel like I'm ready. Ready to put in a solid two hours of activity. Yeah. All right, Sky, great work on the overrated, underrated. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and get into Project 2025. We'll be right back.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pedente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadston. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes! Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like, you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself.

Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're turning up the heat on the newest episode of All the Smoke. Vice President and Democratic presidential nominee

Kamala Harris pulls up to the show to discuss her historic presidential run. Most people have ambition, they have aspirations, They have dreams. And they are willing to work hard. And if we give people the opportunity to actually meet those goals, they jump for it every time. Madden Stack will be diving deep into the journey that brought her here, her vision for the future, and the real stories behind the headlines. Make sure you check out All the Smoke with Vice President Kamala Harris out now. Listen today on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Questlove Hey, y'all. This is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm gonna toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimini, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out.

Hey, y'all. Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. -♪ Flash slam another one gone, bash bam another one gone, the cracker to bat and another one gone, the tip of the cap is another one gone.

Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And if you came with me Did you know, did you know

I wouldn't give up my seat Nine months before Rosa, he was Claudette Colvin Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records, because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Essie Kupp, and I have spent the last 20 plus years knee deep in politics in the news. podcast. From the news, from the triggering headlines. And I kind of suspect some of you listening out there might need a break too. So my new podcast is going to be just that.

A fun and loose space where I talk to my famous friends and people I admire about all the stuff that consumes us when we're not consumed by politics. I did not really rebel in the 60s. I had no sex in the 70s. Um. What? I made no money in the 60s. I had no sex in the 70s. Um, I made no money in the 80s.

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Oh yeah. Brought you by Kool-Aid. Brought you by Blue Kool-Aid. All right. So let's get into it. Democrats are saying Project 2025 is basically the entire blueprint for the next presidential administration if Trump wins. So I have a loose theory that I'm working on here, because you see all of the wild shit

that Trump is willing to say about everything, just like straight up immigrants are going to come into your kitchen and cut your throat and like, you know, all the lies, all the violence, and yet he runs away from project 2025. I'm curious to hear your take. Is there stuff in there that he's really afraid of being associated with? runs away from project 2025. I'm curious to hear your take. Is there stuff in there that he's really afraid of being associated with, or has he just not read it and he's scared of like that there's something in there that's how many pages is it? 922.

Oh no. No, no. I feel like that at least has part of, has to do with partially why he's just like backing away from it. But yeah, I'm curious, how much of the influence do you think the Heritage Foundation has when it comes to a next Trump presidency? Well, the Heritage Foundation itself says that about two thirds of the policies that it proposes, the prior administration implemented and administrations before that implemented, that's on its website. So I think we got to take them at their word that they're

quite effective at shaping policy. And that's concerning for the vast majority of people in the country, which is why I think the former president is seeking to distance himself is that there's just no mandate at all for these policies. Polling is out. There's new polling out from last week. I mean, we didn't really need the polling to tell us this, but it's just like 4%. I think it's like just very, very low of people that would approve of the overall policy agenda,

which is why I think you see him trying to distance himself from those, because there's just no mandate for it. Right, right. And I think most people who listen to the show, we always hear we understand what project 2025 is and just sort of like, how this could all, you know, pretty much curtail all of our rights in most cases. But like, I'm just for in a broader context, can you just sort of talk about like

what the Heritage Foundation is? Like, I understand they're a think tank they've had they've been making sort of playbooks for conservative administrations, I think since the eighties. But I think you have, again, like how Jack was saying in the beginning, there's the emphasis like this could be everything that the Trump administration does. Then you have people, I'm sure because of the optics are so terrible. They're like, I mean, I don't really know him or that, or what this is about. But just to give an idea, like again, I know because in their

fundraising, they say like, the Trump administration took 64% of our policy proposals and implemented them. Yeah, so how, why is it the Heritage Foundation specifically that's really the one pushing all of this forward? So I think this is a great and interesting question. I mean, the Heritage Foundation is a known sort of institution on the right that's very well funded. But what's interesting about this project 2025, this mandate for leadership that they've put out, is over 100 other organizations are banning together with the Heritage Foundation in this effort. And some of those, if you go look at the list, I think it's on their website, and we have some references at Democracy Forward,

you can go look at. Some of those institutions are ones that were active in overturning Roe versus Wade. There are institutions that oppose public education. There are institutions that have opposed voting access. And so it's not just heritage, but that overall ecosystem that is commonly funded, very highly coordinated, as you can tell. And I think that's one thing we want to make sure people understand. Right. Because it feels like it's sort of like a wish list, whether you're like one of these billionaires who's like, I hate regulation.

Can you do something about that? To then the anti-abortion movement who also has, like, there's a, like I get now, why is it sort of like this Avengers of backwards groups? Because like everyone, they're like, oh, and our little thing also gets represented in this too. And you know, there was a question in the prior administration about whether true conservatives, the country's interesting because folks see things all differently. Some people are Pepsi

drinkers, some are Coke drinkers, some are liberals, some are conservatives. And there was a real question in the last administration about what traditional conservatives would do. Would Trump be one bridge too far? Would this anti-democratic at the point that we can't, there's now opposition over the right to vote again. There's opposition over basic rights. Are we moving forward? Are we moving backwards?

And really the prior administration and now this project 2025 answers that. That there's a whole lot of these groups that have found common cause with each other that have been pushed further and further to the right in a way that doesn't represent the vast majority of people. That's why you see people like Vice President Cheney rebuffing so much of this anti-democratic activity now.

There was like an architect of Project 2025 who was captured, I think he worked at the Heritage Foundation or worked at the Heritage Foundation and was captured on hidden camera, basically being like, yeah, of course he's going to pretend he's not on board, but guys, he's with us all the way. We've got this. Didn't that happen this summer? That was released, and we've seen a number of videos that have been released, former Trump administration officials, of course, many of whom authored parts of the document. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that there's no way, you know, you can try to run, but there's no way for this movement to hide from the associations with Project 2025. You guys know this about my background, but democracy forward, we had to take the prior administration to court, and we sued on a lot of the same policies that appear again,

in this document. So there's just really no way to distance it, I think. Yeah. And it feels like because all of the attention right now, they've feels like this summer has been a lot of like, like a lot of PR spin, you know, from because Paul Danz, right was the person who was like the director of project 2025. And when he was, I don't know, fired, he says wrongly terminated. Like the Heritage Foundation says, like, he was, he, his behavior was, oh, very

unconcerned, like, do not look at Donald Trump, but for us, it was a ridge too far. Well, like with that kind of a thing, because I think that was another move where people were like, oh my gosh, they, that was like a headline. Like the director of Project 2025 has been fired as if to sort of make people be like, oh, maybe things are losing momentum. But what's what's what's it been like for the Heritage Foundation just generally how they're maneuvering because it seems like, oh, everybody knows about this. And if you read it, it's so bad. What do we do to try and make this seem like normal or acceptable? Well, we've seen that. I mean, we saw a number of these witnesses just, I guess it was last week, two weeks

ago, when I was on Capitol Hill that had their talking points about, Oh, this is nothing, nothing to see here. It's really nothing to see here. There may be 900 pages, but nothing to see. And the American people I think are smarter than that. And that's why you see them. So, you know, rebuke this agenda. But I think the other thing that we're trying to make

sure people understand, and you guys have talked about it on the show in different ways, but Project 2025 is already here. It's not something that could happen. It's we're already seeing in states like Florida and Texas and Arkansas and Mississippi and places where we have to go to court because there are attempts to ban books or to control ideas, to ban reproductive healthcare. So we're seeing a lot of these policies and ideas already afoot in states with very far right leadership, already afoot by these organizations that are going into court and trying to sue

on fringe legal theories to restrict the right to vote or to restrict the right to reproductive healthcare, any number of things. And so we wanna make sure that people understand that, that there's a lot that we can be doing in our own communities now to oppose these really harmful and anti-democracy, anti-freedom ideas. Right. And so some of these things that seem like fringe and like, you know, they're stories that are happening in other states if we don't live in Florida. And then you hear from people who are like, I'm in Florida.

It's as bad as it seems. The idea is that it would just be national. Like it would, like all of those things would now be attempted on a national scale. So there are, yeah, there's pages throughout project 2025 that says that they want to adopt, you know, at the federal level, um, certain ideas around education or policies that we've seen in states like Florida and Texas, where there has just been a lot of restrictions on the freedom to read, the freedom to ideas, the ability for schools to serve people.

In courts, we see, you know, there's this, you all, I think, have talked about this, but the Comstock Act, which is this Victorian-era law that there has been a movement to resurrect, even though it's been broadly abrogated law that there has been a movement to resurrect, even though it's been broadly abrogated, that there's been a movement to resurrect to try to enforce criminal penalties on the transportation of obscene materials in the United States, which it defines to include materials that might be utilized in the provision of pregnancy, termination and abortion. And that's actually something that these same far right groups that are behind Project 2025 are already trying to push in the court.

It's something we heard a little bit of a discussion of this last Supreme Court term from Justices Alito and Thomas and the Alliance for Defending Freedom, which is one of the groups behind the plan. And so I think that's the other piece of this is we need to be able to look at this extremism and not blink and understand it's here and use the tools that we have to oppose it. Right. So I even like with, you know, I know the huge sort of tenants within Project 2025 as it relates to abortion are essentially ban Mifflip Stone, enforce the Comstock Act, and then also like collect data from states about abortions performed,

including like the state of residence for the mother and things like that to really just clamp down in every way. I've also heard people say like, that for them, it's like, if we can just get the Comstock Act enforced, that's kind of good enough. Because I guess the logic extends to the fact that they would essentially say like any even supplies being sent to an abortion clinic would be deemed unlawful and therefore you have like this de facto shutdown of clinics. Is there is there like debate within the anti abortion movement of like, maybe we just can we just really press hard on the Comstock Act versus other

they want anything that will chill reproductive health care, whether it's lawful or not, whether it's fringe or not. Comstock is certainly one of them. I would be remiss if I didn't say that these are the same people that for years insisted they wanted to return things to the state and now they're pursuing national strategies to try to prevent reproductive health care,

even in states that are protecting it and have permitted it. And so I think that we need to also be able to look at that hypocrisy and understand what we're up against. Right. All right. Let's, uh, let's take a quick break and I want to come back and talk about weather and how this could even fuck with our ability to deal with the weather. Yeah.

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you get your podcasts. Trust me, you'll not want to miss this one. And we are back. And so Project 2025 makes it possible for the administration to, or a administration to, dismantle NOAA and the National Weather Service. And, but, so, I mean, just up top, the National Weather Service is the thing that gives us, like, most of our weather information? Absolutely, yeah.

I mean, it is. And I mean, you know, when you said what's overrated, I mean it is and I mean, you know, you said what's what's what's overrated I mean, I didn't say the weather app because I'm you know sitting here in an airport you guys We're all trying to their storms everywhere trying to figure out so even when we utilize weather information from whatever our favorite services are lots of that is built off of The publicly available weather service that enables all of us to access information the publicly available weather service that enables all of us to access information, not just about what the temperatures are going to be or how much it rains, but about the progression of storms or other things that we need to know.

And of course, we'd be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that we're talking amidst so many people in our country that are losing things and there's been lots of flooding throughout as a result of these storms. But yet, Project 2025 would dismantle that National Weather Service because it views our weather service and the data that is collected around weather patterns as a threat to their sort of ideological view that climate change is not real.

And data and evidence are a problem if you wanna sort of peddle in misinformation. And so they want to dismantle the weather service. Yeah. Right. I'm seeing that this, I think there was, so first of all, the head of the federal, or not federal, the Heritage Foundation recently had an op-ed in the USA Today.

And then the USA Today also recently recently fact checked this fact. And they're like, it just gives them the ability to dismantle the NOAA and the National Weather Service. It doesn't, I don't like it. It's not calling for it. It's like, it says it should be broken up. What house am I supposed to take that? Yeah. Specifically says that the NOAA is one of the main drivers of the

climate change alarm industry. Correct. So, yeah. And why do you think they're calling for it and giving themselves the ability to do it if they're not going to do it? Weird things happening at the USA today, apparently, with regards to Project 2025. It feels like sort of like one part is obviously

the curtailing of rights is a huge part. Then the other was erase the receipts that allow for people to call for progress. Because if you have no data about the environment, then that's one less tool people have to rhetorically best us in saying, we need to take care of the planet. That's one thing we saw. In the prior administration, there was an effort to stop collecting data or to undermine data.

So this isn't just what's in Project 2025. This is what happened. The lawyers at Democracy Forward, we had to go to court to stop the Trump administration when they wanted to stop collecting wage data around demographics. They just didn't want to collect it. You don't have a wage problem, a wage gap problem or any inequity in pay. If you don't collect the data, and we were able to win that suit, but that's the type of trend we see, including with the National Weather Service and what they're saying. I will say, and I think you all have seen this, but on our website at democracyforward.org, we have a people's guide to democracy forward. We have a people's guide to project 2025. And it actually has all of these things and has the page numbers in project 2025.

So when you mentioned the fact checking, we've tried to do that for the American people so that you don't have to go through all 900 pages, but you can see these things. And the weather service is one of the areas that we flagged, right there with the page numbers that you're reading off of. Right, so if you need to get into a spirited policy debate, you can be like, no, and here, look right here where it says that. Correct.

Because there are plenty of people who are so dismissive too, because depending on where you hear news, people are gonna be like, it's full of fringe stuff that nobody's listening to. But again, anyone, like we were saying at the top of the segment, is like, no, about nearly two-thirds of the policy ideas are coming from the Heritage Foundation. So to act like it isn't, I think is a huge mistake.

I think that's right. Yeah. I really worry about, because the ability to dismantle all of the important things that the federal government does for us just feels like it's very low hanging fruit in the United States. Like, I just feel like those stories don't get told that like, oh, this is your tax dollars at work. Like, unless someone's saying sarcastically, they're not your tax dollars at work. Unless someone's saying sarcastically, then your tax dollars at work, folks.

People don't actually ever report on what the National Weather Service, the important work that is being done by these things. It's just treated as a given or it's... There's a great anecdote and I think it's a Michael Lewis book where somebody is like, why would we continue funding the National Weather Service when we have weather.com? Like we have a privatized version and he's like, yeah. So they get all their data from the National Weather Service. The Weather Service, exactly.

That's, but nobody, like the way I feel like this like Wall Street mindset has invaded everybody in the United States and they just don't want it to be true. That like all this federal government investment has given us so many of the good things that we have today. And so it just, it feels like this is going to be, even though it would be. You know, we saw what happened, like what Trump has done with weather information that isn't convenient for him. We saw him like change a hurricane map with a Sharpie, like in front of people, like on a national stage. Like imagine what he'd do behind closed doors to actual weather reporting at a time

when global climate change makes the case for scientists that we should be very afraid. And like, you know, he obviously is on the side where like, you know, with fossil fuel companies and the GOP that are claiming it's not, you know, he's going to, he's going to use that power, I feel like in really damaging ways. And probably be like, and every hurricane will be called Obama or Clinton after this. There's only two names and they're all bad and they're always the reason for your demise. But yeah, that's I think I'm also curious, too, like there's, aside from, again,

the total just taking back of rights for nearly every single person in the United States. What are some of like the other policy goals that are being under reported on? Because I think rightly, the huge stuff that affects the largest number of people gets a lot. But I feel like there's a lot of other things that are really, really like a small policy shift that can actually resonate in a huge way that we're not really talking about. Absolutely. I mean, one of them is overtime pay. And the eligibility standard for overtime, there's a call in the document to change,

to revise that standard, which would disqualify millions of Americans for overtime pay. So if they revise the standard so that if you make a certain amount of money and you qualify now, they may say, well, that's too much money. So you don't qualify for overtime pay. And at a time where it's very hard for people to make ends meet, this is a really troubling.

And I think the estimates are about 4.3 million people could lose eligibility to overtime. And that's extreme. Who doesn't believe that you should be paid for the extra hours that you're working these jobs? But that's one of the ones that I would point out. The civil service has gotten a lot of, there's been some press, I think, around Schedule F

or the attempts to purge the civil service. But I think there's been less conversation about what that really means. It's not just actually about people that work for the federal government losing their job or being at risk of losing their job. Certainly that would happen. But think about all the the federal government losing their job or being at risk of losing their job, certainly that would happen. But think about all the things

federal government employees do that we really take for granted. I mean, think about an agency like the FDA that's keeping our drug and food supply safe. Do we want someone that's not an expert like opining on sort of the particulate matter in a certain substance and whether that's safe or not,

I mean, that's really scary for all of us, and especially for those of us that are raising kids and active in our communities. And so I think those are some of the things that I think people are starting to see it. It's unsettling. People don't like Project 2025, but there's real ways that this could impact

one's day-to- day life in real profound ways. Because I just look at even like recently, there's like that boars head facility had a Listeria outbreak. And a lot of that they're tying back to like, the things that were rolled back under Trump to be like, man, it's made a little too much oversight in this food processing facility. And now you have like Listeria outbreaks because it maybe wasn't deemed important enough or that we can trust the company.

Be like, yeah, man, just you're fine. As long as you guys are holding up the standards, we'll believe you. And then cut to an outbreak of Listeria that's actually had terrible, terrible consequences for people. Yeah. I mean, another thing is like, so our, our prescription drugs, right. And the prescription drugs for many people are not as affordable as they should be or as accessible as they should be. And so Congress actually under the Biden Harris administration, when it passed the Inflation

Reduction Act, there's a provision in there that allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices, which would overall lead to greater affordability. We right now at Democracy Forward represent hundreds of thousands of doctors through medical associations like the American Medical Association and others who are weighing in in court saying like, this is really important for public health. Well, Project 2025 calls for the repeal of that. And so where we've seen some progress and seen some things that can make things more affordable, make it easier for people to make ends meet, to take care of their family. Product 2025 would call that back. Head Start.

Lots of people in this country have either been a beneficiary of Head Start or families that are relying on Head Start for early childhood development for young people. They want to eliminate Head Start. I mean, this is basic stuff. And a lot of these programs are programs that have been supported for many years by both Democrats and Republicans. They're not particularly controversial programs, but yet it calls for the elimination of them.

Yeah. Also the dismantling of the FBI, I believe is in there and not for the good reasons, but rather because they're mean to Donald Trump. This was just illuminating for me because I was like, Oh shit. Are we going to have to spend the next four years rooting for the FBI again? Like that should, I feel like that should be Kamala Harris's slogan. Just like, do you want to spend another four years on the same side as guys like James Comey and the FBI? No, you don't like vote for me.

Don't, you don't want to cheer for the FBI again, guys. Come on. I think the other thing like you talk about in the work you do, Skye, is like the idea or rather the fact that a lot of these terrible policies, it's here already. We don't need Project 2025 to know that these threats are actually clear and present and in effect. And like, again, even if Trump is defeated, I think my worry and like other peoples is obviously the ethos of this document lives on until, you know, they everything is found to be illegal by a Supreme Court or something like that.

But like in Indiana, you're referencing like states already having policies in place like in Indiana. I think the attorney general launched a site where basically parents can dox and snitch on teachers that share quote, objectionable curricula policies or programs. And they relate a lot of that to like the injustices of our country read like systemic racism and other things like that that plague our society. But what like I guess the long term to fight all of this, these mini project 2025s, is it that like, again, the first step is probably to defeat project 2025 2025 at a federal level. But then now at the state level, what does that fight look like for like legally and also just for people to be aware and like what what what does that sort of look like to you? to be aware and like what does that sort of look like to you? Lots of work to do. So for yes, first of all, it could get worse. So let's not endorse

Project 2025 at the federal level, which I think is people are understanding. But at the state level, one thing is now we know this is a deeply unpopular agenda. And so it's important that we take a close look at what's being proposed in the states. And if it appears in this project 2025 playbook, we need to be saying that so that people understand what's at stake in these policies. But the state legislative sessions will start in the new year, and there will be a lot of work to educate policymakers about what people's needs are. And we and others will work on that with communities in the states. And then when states pass unlawful and harmful laws, it's time to go to court. And, you know, at Democracy Forward, we had to sue Texas because they're blacklisting companies for

their sustainable investments. I mean, actually putting businesses on a blacklist in a state that's purporting my home state, but a state that's purporting to be pro-business. I mean, in Arkansas, we've had to sue to block criminal penalties on librarians that, um, that Sarah Huckabee Sanders signed into law. And so there's a lot of these extreme ideas already taking, but already becoming law and there are things that people can do. And so that's a great, you know, plug for following our work at democracy for it.org and we can connect your listeners with a lot of other organizations too that are going to be doing that work. But we can't take our foot off the gas, even if we're able to defeat this at the federal level because the threats are here and they're real.

Yeah. And I think it's easy to forget too where you're like that that thing's too wild to pass and like, and it doesn't happen. You don't realize. Oh, it's because there were a lot of lawsuits that prevented that. So I think at times it's easy to take for granted. It's like the actual work that's done to be like, no, no, no, see, they say something wild and out of pocket, and then you have to go in and sue to prevent that. Otherwise the door just opens and then. Which and what that means is that people have to decide that they're going to use their position that they're in to push back. So in Texas, we're representing an association of businesses that's having to use their position. We represent the generic manufacturer of mythopristone that has sued in West Virginia to block an

abortion ban that makes it impossible to access them and utilize their medication in the state. And these are, you know, everyday decisions. And then we represent people like parents and teachers that make a decision. But these are everyday folks, are small businesses that are deciding to use their position in this time. So, you know, rest can be overrated a little

bit, even though it's good, and we've all got to get to work. Yeah. Just three years into the Trump administration, and he's like able to put these plans into effect. Like, it really does feel like it would be a complete, like, post-apocalyptic, like, what does that look like, would you imagine?

Well, I think that we see a vision of that in project 2025, but in other things as well, and you can look around the globe too, to see the types of democratic backsliding in 2021 after January 6th. And I think January 6th is a good place to look to see what things could look like, but in January 6th, the United States was added to a list of global backsliding democracies. And I mean, we are now on a list of democracies in the world that are not moving forward, but have been moving backwards because of election denialism and violence

and rises in political violence. And so, I think that we can look at some of the things that have happened in this country and see that and what that can look like on a greater and broader scale. They've been clear that they want to engage in a retribution agenda. Last week there was a news story that suggested that they would want to jail people who criticized the Supreme Court, which is a court whose majority has reversed the rights for over half the population in this country on their watch. And so I think that there's really no telling where this goes. But the main thing that we know is that one of the top tools that sort of

more authoritarian governments and leaders and far-right leaders have is to try to convince people that there's nothing that they can do, that there's no reason to fight back, there's no reason to sort of push back, that they have it all in the bag and this is where we're going and there's no reason to fight back, there's no reason to sort of push back, that they have it all in the bag, and this is where we're going, and there's nothing that you can do and that you're powerless. And what the American story tells us and what our work every day tells us is that people do have the power in this country. And so that's what, you know, that's what we will be focused on in all scenarios is making sure that people can use all the tools our democracy provides to push back and to defend their freedoms. What are some of those tools that you would say, like just to people who aren't legal experts or what should they be doing? Ship posting on Twitter?

Is ship posting? Yeah, I mean, obviously ship posting is the main one, but are there any others? Or podcasting? So look, I think using, we say this all the time, but I mean, certainly registering and voting, but using your voice is important. And it's not just important on social media or on podcasts or at big meetings. It is important that we're having these conversations in our communities, that we're talking to people about what it feels like to be someone who has either experienced a rights violation or has a, you know, has a kid that's affected by one of these policies or, you know, had a loved one or family member that is,

or are themselves, right? And that we're having these conversations. So using the voice and making sure that people are connected and not able to distance themselves and their experiences from these broader ideas, I think is really important. Obviously, people can use the third branch of government, which they don't utilize as much as they should, which is our court system. And that's what we do at Democracy Forward is we want to make sure people we represent all of our clients free of charge. We want to make sure that people have access to the courts and can challenge harmful and unlawful activities in their local communities and their state communities are at the federal level. And then we see that people, you know, use their voice in federal government and state government as well. But there's a lot that we can all do in this time

to stand up for our values and to stand up for our country. Great. When you're talking about democracies backsliding, what are some examples that people could like look to read about in other countries? What are some other countries that are experiencing the same sort of democratic backsliding, either now or throughout history? Yeah, so there's a great report. So if you Google the sort of 2021 democratic backsliding, it was the International Institute of Democracy and Electoral Assistance idea, International Institute of Democracy and Electoral Assistance,, International Institute of Democracy and Electoral Assistance is what placed the US on the list. And you can read about other countries that are also on that list. And then the Carnegie Institute

has done some really good research and publication about the types of trends. In the United States, what is happening is that there's this active, what we call a counter majoritarian movement, right? So a movement that doesn't represent the vast majority of people in this country, but that nevertheless is wielding large amounts of political power, whether that is through misinformation, whether it's through gerrymandering and structural issues that are keeping people from being represented. Project 2025, by the way, this is what I told Congress, is an example of that. You have a policy that is completely unpopular and harmful to the vast majority of the people, but yet it is taking this national prominence because of this ecosystem of far-right actors. So you can read

more about that. And I'm happy to come back on and chat about it. But that is, I think, that we have to view Project 2025 in this broader context, which is the type of testimony I gave a few weeks ago, and also just remembering January 6. I mean, we had a disruption in the peaceful transition of presidential power for the first time in our country's modern history. And so those are really concerning. Well, thank you so much, Scott, for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. We really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule.

Where can people find you, follow you, find out more about your work? Yeah, go to democracyforward.org. Definitely get the People's Guide to Project 2025, but learn more about our work. You can follow us on all of our social media channels. We even have TikTok and have some interesting videos people love that have been going viral, especially around 20 product, 2025.

So democracy forward, democracy for.org. And I'm sky Perryman. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram and all those channels as well. Right. And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Last question. A work of media, not, I mean, in addition to this. Yeah.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it could be this. Yeah, in addition to this podcast. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it could be this. Yeah. It's going to be this. Oh, good. Good. And Wild Robot? Good.

Wild Robot. Wild Robot was good. I have been enjoying following. I do think that a lot of videos that are being made and posted on Instagram reels that are taking perspectives from various local media, I read a lot of videos that are being made and posted on like sort of Instagram reels that are taking perspectives from various, you know, local media. I read a lot of local papers. I read a lot of local papers. I had a mentor one time that told me whenever you go to a travel app for work, you know, pick up the local paper and read it. I love reading the editorial pages of local papers and seeing what's up in communities, including the small town that I'm from, which I still take that paper.

So I love doing that. But recently we've been seeing lots of great influencers and creators be able to put a lot of that perspective, you know, put a lot of that perspective out on reels and video. And that's really fun. And I think it's a good way to engage cross-generationally. We watch a lot of those at our house with young people and it's great. Awesome. Great. All right. Well, thank you again for joining us. Miles, where can people find you? Is there a work of media you've been enjoying? Yes. Find me Twitter and Instagram at milesofgray.

If you like basketball podcasts, Jack and I also have a basketball podcast called Miles and Jack, I'm at Boostery's. If you like 90 Day Fiance, I also talk about that on 420 Day Fiance, work of media I like. As somebody who famously has not seen all the Marvel films, we want to watch that new Catherine Hahn, like Agatha, All the Time show. But then I was like, I think I need to see WandaVision before I understand this.

And then they're like, they're like, to understand WandaVision, you need to know all these other things. So I just look, I'm jumping into WandaVision. And so far, I really like it, even though I'm probably missing a lot of the references, but so far, uh, enjoy it. So I'm just going to say that. So yeah, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm with, I'm rocking with Wanda right now. Miles, have you read the King James Bible and the Iliad? Because I feel like you're going to need to understand both of those to get WandaVision. And then those will explain

a couple of the other later. Yeah, right, right, right. And you'll finally get up to WandaVision. No then those will explain a couple of the other later. Yeah, right, right, right. No. So then you'll finally get up to WandaVision. No, not yet, not yet. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien, piece of media I've been enjoying. So I read the book, Three Body Problem, and then the second in the trilogy, The Dark Forest. I have not finished the third one, but I just watched the HBO, or sorry, Netflix adaptation by Benioff and Weiss, and it's fine, but I did enjoy it because it has a scene

involving nanofibers that I had in the book. It blew my mind. I was like this is one of the coolest Cinematic scenes that I could imagine can't wait to see what they do with that and they they did it, right? I feel like it was pretty wild scene. Anyways, you can find us on Twitter at daily zeitgeist We're at the daily zeitgeist on Instagram We have a Facebook fan page and a website daily zeitge guys calm? We post our episodes and our footnotes So no link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode as well as a song That we think you might enjoy miles with something you think people might enjoy This is a track from the New Jersey based artists 54 ultra and it's called heaven knows and it's again another one of these like modern Bands that's doing something that I was like is this like a lost like late sixties Motown B side I've never heard?

But no, it's a song from like this the last two years and the guy's whole aesthetic is really dope. And if you like that kind of music, you're going to love this one. So this is heaven knows by the artist 54 ultra. All right, we will link off to that in the footnotes. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcaster, wherever find podcasts or give it away for free. That is going to do it for us this morning.

We are back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we will talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. Hi, I'm Se Cup and I've spent my career interviewing people about politics, presidential elections, and some really tough breaking news. But now I need a break. And I think you do too. So on my new podcast, Off the Cup, I'll still be interviewing people, usually famous and

most likely my friends, but about life. You know, the stuff that consumes us when we're not consumed by politics. So come join me every Wednesday for some conversational self-care. Listen to Off the Cup on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, my name's Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. This week I interviewed Sean Mendez. He started out sharing covers online and now he's one of the biggest names in music. He also uses his platform to raise awareness for causes he cares about, like mental health

and climate change. The reality is I don't have a deeper understanding of life. I just have a deeper acceptance of self. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. Hey, I'm Gianna Predenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadston.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer,

we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Mori Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all, Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, the Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop.

Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host Santos Escobar, Emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or whatever you stream podcasts.